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#1 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rules:

1) Destroying the earth is not allowed.

2) This is Cell after he reformed from self-destructing on King Kai's planet.

3) This is Amazo after he returned to earth to find Lex Luthor (fans of the show should be able to recall this event).

4) This is a fight to the death.

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by Bossmonster (2339 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo butchers him.

That Amazo is broken beyond all reason. If he lays eyes on Cell, it's game over. No questions asked.

And I'm going to say this now before all the silly stuff comes in, There is ZERO reason that Amazo can reproduce KI/CHI. None what so ever. He was able to reproduce Magic. He was able to reproduce GL energy with zero connection to the power battery. He was able to recreate the effects of Wonder Woman's wrist bands and Hawk Girls Mace. Why in gods name would not be able to create Ki

And to cut the lame-o answer off before it comes in, Just because he is an android and not "human" does not mean a think. Any one that know what ki energy is knows that it flows through all matter. Everything has Chi. Amazo, without PIS, would murder Cell in seconds. It would be worse than the Almost perfect cell verse Super Vegeta in its over all pointlessness.

#3 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio

oh god, why.

#4 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

Golden Amazo solo'd the jla. Only thing thing that comes to mind was adequately put by this guy:

oh god, why.

#5 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

amazo easily

#6 Posted by Equonox (967 posts) - - Show Bio

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

#7 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: that was a very well-worded argument

I was gonna say Cell, but you've convinceed me otehrwise

#8 Edited by deathmedal (102 posts) - - Show Bio

That version of amazo in a STOMP. he was atleast skyfather level in that episode

#9 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox said:

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

You know, writing that, even if it's funny, causes a bad name for fans of a typical series/character, giving the feeling that most people who like the series are going to be siding with cell. Considering you seem to have no bad intentions, nor a lot serious, maybe I'm just being "that guy", but couldn't help but comment.

#10 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Bossmonster (2339 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Dude, consider this, while what you say is true, I think that is the problem. You shouldn't side with the character you favor.

That's were the drama and flames come in. I'm really not a fan of DC. Mostly because of how stupidly powerful the characters are which makes me think that everything they are involved in is just stupid. (An Example is The Flash. I can't understand why he doesn't Solo 95% of every issue in DC)

But you did make a fair point, I just believe that the other side of that is a problem as well.

@betatesthighlander1: Thank you.

It would take a hell of a lot to stop this Amazo. I also think that in that very esp he explain that he has also evolved past his original makeup. Moving planets with a thought from one place to another?? Like really?? He's too broken.

#12 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster said:

Amazo butchers him.

That Amazo is broken beyond all reason. If he lays eyes on Cell, it's game over. No questions asked.

And I'm going to say this now before all the silly stuff comes in, There is

ZERO

reason that Amazo can reproduce KI/CHI. None what so ever. He was able to reproduce Magic. He was able to reproduce GL energy with zero connection to the power battery. He was able to recreate the effects of Wonder Woman's wrist bands and Hawk Girls Mace. Why in gods name would not be able to create Ki

And to cut the lame-o answer off before it comes in, Just because he is an android and not "human" does not mean a think. Any one that know what ki energy is knows that it flows through all matter. Everything has Chi. Amazo, without PIS, would murder Cell in seconds. It would be worse than the Almost perfect cell verse Super Vegeta in its over all pointlessness.

there is a very simple answer to this, Ki energy is life force energy, which is why Ki in dragon ball z is specific to the person using it. And people in dragon ball z can be specifically identify by the use of their Ki. Amazo can't reproduce that, it like Amazo being able to reproduce "the force", which he wouldn't also be able to do. The same explanation for reasons why he force can't use the force is because he is artificial life applies here. It's unnatural in nature and there by disrupts the natural flow of Ki or blocks it outright.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and never has been, although the connection to life seems to give it a mystical attribute it isn't magic. The Green Lantern energy has been replicated before, you simply have to understand the energy output. Puslar/Photon was able to do it, Wonderwoman's band are still metal, and so is Hawk Girl's mace, the energy used to make them could also be replicated.

Cell at perfect form could destroy galaxies and instantly heal until every cell of his body was able to do. SSj2 at base can move and fight at faster than the speed of light. Amazo hasn't shown to be that fast in combat and nor did any of the justice league in that cartoon show feat anywhere comparable. Goku at ssj1 during the cell saga was stronger than when he fought Freiza, and he still couldn't beat Cell. Amazo has no chance at all of winning here. He's simply not strong or fast enough to compete with Cell in this form.

#13 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

A.M.A.Z.O

#15 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3198 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo.

#16 Posted by Equonox (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox said:

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

You know, writing that, even if it's funny, causes a bad name for fans of a typical series/character, giving the feeling that most people who like the series are going to be siding with cell. Considering you seem to have no bad intentions, nor a lot serious, maybe I'm just being "that guy", but couldn't help but comment.

No, my point wasn't that anyone who likes DBZ would side w/ Cell, my point was anyone who would side w/ Cell is clearly a fanboy. My post was one of anticipation, vindicated by @blacharrt1 and, apparently, you. Amazo in the JLU had the ability to functionally remaking the universe as he saw fit (he moved Oa to a pocket dimension by just thinking it). He could think Cell out of existence, while Cell would be powerless to stop him (he tanked everything that Oa and the JLU threw at him w/out a scratch).

Now, be gone, fanboys.

#17 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio

there is a very simple answer to this, Ki energy is life force energy, which is why Ki in dragon ball z is specific to the person using it. And people in dragon ball z can be specifically identify by the use of their Ki. Amazo can't reproduce that, it like Amazo being able to reproduce "the force", which he wouldn't also be able to do. The same explanation for reasons why he force can't use the force is because he is artificial life applies here. It's unnatural in nature and there by disrupts the natural flow of Ki or blocks it outright.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and never has been, although the connection to life seems to give it a mystical attribute it isn't magic. The Green Lantern energy has been replicated before, you simply have to understand the energy output. Puslar/Photon was able to do it, Wonderwoman's band are still metal, and so is Hawk Girl's mace, the energy used to make them could also be replicated.

Cell at perfect form could destroy galaxies and instantly heal until every cell of his body was able to do. SSj2 at base can move and fight at faster than the speed of light. Amazo hasn't shown to be that fast in combat and nor did any of the justice league in that cartoon show feat anywhere comparable. Goku at ssj1 during the cell saga was stronger than when he fought Freiza, and he still couldn't beat Cell. Amazo has no chance at all of winning here. He's simply not strong or fast enough to compete with Cell in this form.

You are absolutely full of it.

@equonox said:

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

They have arrived

#18 Posted by dondave (38781 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo

#19 Posted by Equonox (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1 said:

there is a very simple answer to this, Ki energy is life force energy, which is why Ki in dragon ball z is specific to the person using it. And people in dragon ball z can be specifically identify by the use of their Ki. Amazo can't reproduce that, it like Amazo being able to reproduce "the force", which he wouldn't also be able to do. The same explanation for reasons why he force can't use the force is because he is artificial life applies here. It's unnatural in nature and there by disrupts the natural flow of Ki or blocks it outright.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and never has been, although the connection to life seems to give it a mystical attribute it isn't magic. The Green Lantern energy has been replicated before, you simply have to understand the energy output. Puslar/Photon was able to do it, Wonderwoman's band are still metal, and so is Hawk Girl's mace, the energy used to make them could also be replicated.

Cell at perfect form could destroy galaxies and instantly heal until every cell of his body was able to do. SSj2 at base can move and fight at faster than the speed of light. Amazo hasn't shown to be that fast in combat and nor did any of the justice league in that cartoon show feat anywhere comparable. Goku at ssj1 during the cell saga was stronger than when he fought Freiza, and he still couldn't beat Cell. Amazo has no chance at all of winning here. He's simply not strong or fast enough to compete with Cell in this form.

You are absolutely full of it.

@equonox said:

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

They have arrived

Le sigh.

I guess to be sporting we should at least give him a chance to post a scan of Cell w/ supposedly galaxy-busting potential. He's a planet-buster, sure, but that's nothing compared to this Amazo.

#20 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@equonox said:

Waiting for DBZ fanboys...

You know, writing that, even if it's funny, causes a bad name for fans of a typical series/character, giving the feeling that most people who like the series are going to be siding with cell. Considering you seem to have no bad intentions, nor a lot serious, maybe I'm just being "that guy", but couldn't help but comment.

No, my point wasn't that anyone who likes DBZ would side w/ Cell, my point was anyone who would side w/ Cell is clearly a fanboy. My post was one of anticipation

That's ok then, I was just pointing out at that it seemed like the first option. As for the fight, I already said Amazo wins rather handily.

#21 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox: Even Solar System busting was a bit of a stretch ... Jesus, Galaxy Busting? F*ck that noise. I know @blacharrt1: can't back it up, he can try if he wants to but if all he throws up is numbers and signs and sh*t, I ain't even gonna try to be a good sport about it. These kind of people are what is driving me away from DBZ right now. Ya feel me?

#22 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@equonox: Speaking of which, There is a whole thread on the solar system burst. There is no need to deny cell's power, at least against amazo it isn't. Cell at his most powerful has no chance here. But, you could read up on the solar system burst here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/cell-974/cell-and-the-solar-system-755238/

It's a good idea to check and discuss about it there, instead of littering the thread with same arguments again. (You still can, but just trying to save the repeat of same points.)

#23 Posted by Bossmonster (2339 posts) - - Show Bio

there is a very simple answer to this, Ki energy is life force energy, which is why Ki in dragon ball z is specific to the person using it. And people in dragon ball z can be specifically identify by the use of their Ki. Amazo can't reproduce that, it like Amazo being able to reproduce "the force", which he wouldn't also be able to do. The same explanation for reasons why he force can't use the force is because he is artificial life applies here. It's unnatural in nature and there by disrupts the natural flow of Ki or blocks it outright.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and never has been, although the connection to life seems to give it a mystical attribute it isn't magic. The Green Lantern energy has been replicated before, you simply have to understand the energy output. Puslar/Photon was able to do it, Wonderwoman's band are still metal, and so is Hawk Girl's mace, the energy used to make them could also be replicated.

Cell at perfect form could destroy galaxies and instantly heal until every cell of his body was able to do. SSj2 at base can move and fight at faster than the speed of light. Amazo hasn't shown to be that fast in combat and nor did any of the justice league in that cartoon show feat anywhere comparable. Goku at ssj1 during the cell saga was stronger than when he fought Freiza, and he still couldn't beat Cell. Amazo has no chance at all of winning here. He's simply not strong or fast enough to compete with Cell in this form.

This is well thought out and I see you point or rather why you are saying what you are saying. However I disagree with you 100%

Reason number one is that CV rules makes this a neutral universe. So there are not World specific rules that would apply. LIke how earth 5 kryptonite doesn't effect earth 6 superman. Hopefully you understand what I mean by that.

2)What you said about the force is the same and untrue. The force is energy that flows through every single thing. Touches all. They say that all the time. Jedi/Sith and the like train to influence it. The greater the knowledge and exp the greater the control and DBZ Ki is much like this as you said. Amazo to from the person not only skills and powers, but understanding. Which is why he effectively used their powers, weapons and abilities.

3)As I said, Ki flows through all things. So yes, while he is an artificial life form or rather was, that doesn't mean that Chi doesn't flow through him. All things metal, rocks, water, air have chi. It would make no sense for him to not have it in his body. Because the very nature of ki(or the force) is that it is within all things.

4)When he took on superman's powers he gained the ability to take in sun light ect to create supermans powers, however at first he was weak to Kryptonite. However, he was again able to change that while retaining all of supermans powers. So, there is just nothing to suggest that he can not recreate great ki/chi feats because he's done it with every thing else.

now on to a few other things. Cell "said" he could bust the solar system but as I have said before, Vegeta said he was the strongest saiyin and never did anything to back that up. Regardless of what the creator said, cell never once did anything to suggest that he had the power that he claimed. I have no idea why you believe he could destroy entire galaxies.

Flash Vs Lex/Brainic. Flash ran the planet several time in less than a second to strike lex. That speed alone for JLA makes him faster than anything Cell ever showed. Flash also showed that same speed in combat and thinking. Add to the fact that he had that Supermans strength and as far as striking and fighting goes, he's more than a match here given that he has the martial arts powess of Batman, Wild cat, Superman, Wonder woman and others that he's taken from just the JLA.

Striking powers is heavily based off the durability of the person, the speed of the strike. Flashes speed, Supermans durability means Amazo is hitting harder. Real hard.

Also, if he and BFR an entire planet at will, why could he do to cell.

And to top all this off, there is nothing to suggest that he can not reproduce KI. Nothing at all. So on top of his already broken, outrageous powers, he would have all of cells.

There is just no way for him to win this.

#24 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by Bossmonster (2339 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Heck yeah! One more check mark in the win box for The Bossmonster!!!

#26 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12349 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: no not full of it, Cell stated that he had enough power to destroy a solar system. I just got the two things confused.. sorry. so let me clear that up SOLAR SYSTEM, Broly could destroy a Galaxy. There it's been corrected.

@bossmonster said:

@blacharrt1 said:

there is a very simple answer to this, Ki energy is life force energy, which is why Ki in dragon ball z is specific to the person using it. And people in dragon ball z can be specifically identify by the use of their Ki. Amazo can't reproduce that, it like Amazo being able to reproduce "the force", which he wouldn't also be able to do. The same explanation for reasons why he force can't use the force is because he is artificial life applies here. It's unnatural in nature and there by disrupts the natural flow of Ki or blocks it outright.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and never has been, although the connection to life seems to give it a mystical attribute it isn't magic. The Green Lantern energy has been replicated before, you simply have to understand the energy output. Puslar/Photon was able to do it, Wonderwoman's band are still metal, and so is Hawk Girl's mace, the energy used to make them could also be replicated.

Cell at perfect form could destroy galaxies and instantly heal until every cell of his body was able to do. SSj2 at base can move and fight at faster than the speed of light. Amazo hasn't shown to be that fast in combat and nor did any of the justice league in that cartoon show feat anywhere comparable. Goku at ssj1 during the cell saga was stronger than when he fought Freiza, and he still couldn't beat Cell. Amazo has no chance at all of winning here. He's simply not strong or fast enough to compete with Cell in this form.

This is well thought out and I see you point or rather why you are saying what you are saying. However I disagree with you 100%

Reason number one is that CV rules makes this a neutral universe. So there are not World specific rules that would apply. LIke how earth 5 kryptonite doesn't effect earth 6 superman. Hopefully you understand what I mean by that.

2)What you said about the force is the same and untrue. The force is energy that flows through every single thing. Touches all. They say that all the time. Jedi/Sith and the like train to influence it. The greater the knowledge and exp the greater the control and DBZ Ki is much like this as you said. Amazo to from the person not only skills and powers, but understanding. Which is why he effectively used their powers, weapons and abilities.

3)As I said, Ki flows through all things. So yes, while he is an artificial life form or rather was, that doesn't mean that Chi doesn't flow through him. All things metal, rocks, water, air have chi. It would make no sense for him to not have it in his body. Because the very nature of ki(or the force) is that it is within all things.

4)When he took on superman's powers he gained the ability to take in sun light ect to create supermans powers, however at first he was weak to Kryptonite. However, he was again able to change that while retaining all of supermans powers. So, there is just nothing to suggest that he can not recreate great ki/chi feats because he's done it with every thing else.

now on to a few other things. Cell "said" he could bust the solar system but as I have said before, Vegeta said he was the strongest saiyin and never did anything to back that up. Regardless of what the creator said, cell never once did anything to suggest that he had the power that he claimed. I have no idea why you believe he could destroy entire galaxies.

Flash Vs Lex/Brainic. Flash ran the planet several time in less than a second to strike lex. That speed alone for JLA makes him faster than anything Cell ever showed. Flash also showed that same speed in combat and thinking. Add to the fact that he had that Supermans strength and as far as striking and fighting goes, he's more than a match here given that he has the martial arts powess of Batman, Wild cat, Superman, Wonder woman and others that he's taken from just the JLA.

Striking powers is heavily based off the durability of the person, the speed of the strike. Flashes speed, Supermans durability means Amazo is hitting harder. Real hard.

Also, if he and BFR an entire planet at will, why could he do to cell.

And to top all this off, there is nothing to suggest that he can not reproduce KI. Nothing at all. So on top of his already broken, outrageous powers, he would have all of cells.

There is just no way for him to win this.

1. yes i understand what you are saying however it doesn't apply here at all.2. Darth Vader understood the force very well, however the fact that he had robotic parts limited his access to the force so, no. Knowledge and skill simply don't give you greater access to the force. It was stated and is cannon that as young Anakin Skywalker His access to the Force was much greater. As i stated, and as it has been shown in DBZ, ki is life energy, simply changing the field of battles doesn't change that property either . Also to counter your point not everyone is born with the same amount of access to the force or who can easily use ki. Goku had a very quick affinity to using ki and mastered the kamehameha in little to no time where Master Roshi took his lifetime to learn it. Krilin did not master the kamehameha, and they were both students at the same time so by your definition that shouldn't have happened.

3. Yes as shown by the spirit bomb all living things have life force, even the sun, planet, star, etc. Goku pulled energy from the rocks and trees and etc. However this was in their natural state, not one manipulated by human hands and turned into artificial life. Even the Androids in dbz were human once, this is not the case for Amazo. And if you could show me in any instance where Goku ever pulled Ki energy from Artifical life, then your point would be well made.

4. I saw the episode with Amazo, i am aware that he was initially affect my kryptonite but then over came it. He is basically a nanomachine that copied superman's genetic code then disgarded the part that gave him a weakeness. Ki has nothing to do with that, it's attached to a person's life, it isn't simply who they are. Which is why Goku had all his abilities even when he was dead, so did Freiza, Cell, etc.

yes i am aware i misspoke about the solar system and confused it with galaxy, it happens. Flash vs. Lex was a certain event one which Amazo never even witnessed and isn't something that flash could do all the time. But here at comicvine we don't attribute other people's feats to someone else, regardless if they have the same powerset unless they performed the feat. However regular Goku at base can fight and fly just under the speed of light not counting his instant transportation, and at ssj1, he is 50x faster than number. In the link provided if you go down to combat speed it explains in great detail just how fast Goku can move, and that at ssj1 during the cell saga he was faster and stronger then when he fought freiza. Still Cell was too much for him. At base Cell's combat speed is faster than anything Amazo has shown in that series.

Superman is not as strong as Cell at all, but even giving you the benefit of the doubt, Superman punch would do nothing to cell even if he were stronger, he would simply instantly regenerate. Goku beat pretty much every master martial artist on the planet as a child in dragon ball &dbz, Batman isn't even in cell's league, he was given data from all the top fighting on the planet and could beat batman easily so he brings nothing to the table. Wildcat also brings nothing to the table, nor superman. WW maybe but again there is no feat to show Amazo using any of that at all. Cartoon flash is no where near as fast as comic flash, and Cell is still faster.

I have already gave you examples of why he can't produce ki, I'm not going over it again. You have a good argument but it all relies on feats Amazo doesn't have or shown. You stated he could use ki, but nothing you said proves that, nor does the showings in dbz give the hint he could. You said Amazo could bfr him but Amazo isn't even fast enough to do that.

goku speed