Amalgam R2: TNBB vs HigorM - VOTING

@higorm:

Gallery

• John Dusk (Absolution)
• Lady Charis (Nemesis)

TNBB:

Gallery

• Composite Mystique (all media)
• Meelo (A:TLA)

• Combatants are in character. This means their usual set of morals apply.
• This is a random encounter (no prep for either side) and both sides have standard gear. Both sides have no immediate knowledge of their opponents, either. This is, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
• Incapacitation, knockout, or death all count as elimination. BFR (battlefield removal, a.k.a. knocking the enemy so far away that there's no way the fight could continue in the near future) is BANNED.

(@higorm I'd appreciate it if you went first)

@thenewbluebeetle007: Sure, but first and need some info about Meelo..

Nah, we're going to wait until voting closes on your match.

Meelo basically can glide, can blast people with air, and can oneshot people with farts. Whether this is due to their fetid nature or pure concussive force is unknown (i kid you not).

@thenewbluebeetle007: Okay, but I can't tag anyone right now.

About Meelo, he's like a weaker version of Aang?

@higorm: tell me who to tag and I'll do it for you.

www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/amalgam-tourney-round-1-thatguywithheadphones-vs-t-1645989/

That should give you all the info you need on Meelo.

@thenewbluebeetle007: Okay, pretty much any of the current debaters. I'll check the link, thanks.

@thenewbluebeetle007: are you ready to rumble?

always. The better question is, are you? because you're about to

@thenewbluebeetle007: Yes, let me show you!

Lady Dusk (John Dusk x Lady Charis)

> Personality: Nemesis

Powers/Abilities

From: Father - John Dusk: A superhero/cop possessing the power to create an aura which he can shape and use in many ways. He works with police but he eventually realizes that not killing doesn't stop evil, so he begins killing villains and other unsavory characters.

He has used this aura to glide and float from the tops of buildings, as means of holding someone in place kind of like ropes, hold someones mouth shut and pressed against wounds to prevent bleeding and in very lethal ways. John Dusk has often and effectively used it as a bladed or sharp sided weapon (he has sliced throats and caused other physical harm with just a wave of his finger) and he has implemented it as a projectile weapon (he occasionally points his finger like a gun and the aura forms a beam and shoots through a culprits head leaving a bullet hole looking injury he has used this ability in more brutal and messy ways also). He uses his aura to fight evil and uphold the law as not just a super hero but as a police officer.

From: Mother - Charis (Nemesis): A warrior belonging to Khera's Adrastean caste, Nemesis is Zealot's former student and Majestic's former lover. She wields two blades, forged from shards of the Creation Engine, that can slice through anything.

Being a Kherubim, Nemesis has superhuman strength, speed and durability as well as an extraordinarily long life. As an Adrastean, she has psychic powers, the strongest of these being empathy, allowing her to sense others by sensing their feelings, as well as learn their past and secret desires among other things. Charis was trained as a Coda so she is a spectacular fighter in both armed and unarmed combat. Thanks to her hard training at the hands of Zealot and the other Coda, she may be the best warrior the Coda has ever produced. When fighting, Charis wields two blades that can cut through any material in the universe. She also wears a special stealth suit that lets her create forcefields and has grenades that can kill enemies based on genetic characteristics.

Paraphernalia

• Suit: She wears a special suit that lets her create forcefields.
• Swords: When fighting, Charis wields two blades forged from shards of the Creation Engine that can cut through any material in the universe.

Initial Considerations

First we need to remember the particularities of this fight. This is a random encounter, which means no prep for either side and both sides have standard gear. They also have no immediate knowledge of their opponents, either. Second, combatants are in character, which means their usual set of morals apply. So considering that Nemesis is the personality being used, I can say that my character, despite in character and morals On, doesn't have qualms about killing the enemy. When you are skilled enough to hold a creation blade, sooner or later things will get messy and someone will lose some blood.Also, Incapacitation, knockout, or death all count as elimination.

From the combination of those characters, my amalgam possess a wide range of possibilities to use in this fight. First being the overall deffensive capabilities. Lady Dusk brings a double shielding to this fight, using both force-fields and her blue aura for protection, the only twist being that the aura can also work offensively. Moving on to stats we have someone bordering the tourney limit for combat and reaction speed, considering that Nemesis manage to fight and defeat the likes of Zealot and Grifter before, and also reacted to a teleporter in the middle of a fight, and later countered and angry powerhouse coming towards her direction.

Next to that we have combat skill. Nemesis is arguably the most skilled fighter in the Wildstorm Universe, considering she was able to defeat Zealot, someone who manage to stalemate with Midnighter before (in a fight without gear). All the Coda warriors possess an extensive training, much more advanced than Earth training, which grants a level of combat orientation that fighting basically means another language to them. I believe that, if we compare our characters here, there remains no doubt that Lady Dusk is the most skilled between the two, and I shall prove that during the debate.

Moving on to powers, aside from the aforementioned blue aura, we have her empathic powers. As an Adrastean, she has psychic powers, the strongest of these being empathy, allowing her to sense others by sensing their feelings, as well as learn their past and secret desires among other things. Most important from this empathic power, Lady Dusk is able to mix the power with skill and use the movement reading ability in a fight.

Main Strategy

As soon the battle starts Lady Dusk activates her double shielding to prevent being striked by surprise. Using the aura she can double her speed and add an unpredictability factor to her moves since she can also fly with it. At first, she won't show any indication of offensive capability from the aura. Her empathy powers and body reading ability will allow her to predict the moves from her enemy (even against a shapeshifter) and properly counter-strike with her special gear. Being more skilled allows her a clear advantage at any sort of combat situation, and with a combination of strikes with aura spikes suddenly coming from nowhere should be enough to put the enemy down. Since I didn't saw any indication of superhuman durability, I believe that all she needs is one single hit to end this battle.

The beauty of my amalgam character is that she is very skilled, is packing a deadly weapon, possess enough combat and reaction speed to avoid attacks and counter-strike, and most important pack a great level of durability at the tourney limits, since durability is limited to that of a large building, but not including energy shields or healing.

@higorm: nice opener! But I bet I can give you a run for your money.

Now presenting...

Meelostique!

x

Meelostique will have his mother's morals and assassin mentality.

Stats and Airbending

Agility and Reaction Time

- Mystique

I'm using Composite Mystique from all media, so that gives me access to X-Men Evolution feats.

Here she can be seen easily dodging Magneto's projectiles and effortlessly getting close to him.

In the comics, her agility is just as good. Here she dodges a rocket:

- Meelo

Meelo's airbending and not-yet-grown body also give him superb quickness.

Here he effortlessly does a backflip off of Katara's head

He can also glide in the air for short periods of time without the use of a glider.

Stealth

- Mystique

As an assassin Mystique is very stealthy to begin with, and this skill is only enhanced by her shape shifting.

Here we see Mystique sneaking up on Cyclops and Wolverine who, even in the show, has his sense of smell.

I think that's all I really need to put aside any possible foresight or precog you might have. I could show you more, but that should suffice.

She can also use her shape shifting (mainly invisibility) in conjuction with this.

Airbending

Now, Meelo may be a child, but he's a child prodigy. At the age of 9, he's made air blasts so powerful that he knocked a mecha tank off balance. That's pretty impressive, considering not even a giant tornado was able to do that.

He has many feats aside from the mecha tank to show his raw power in airbending.

Here he is bending away two equalists.

And here he makes an omnidirectional sphere that blows away two more equalists.

Now, you may be wondering, why did I choose Meelo? There are definitely better airbenders out there, such as Zaheer, Yang Chen, Tenzin etc. And here's why.

Meelo has created fartbending.

Crude as though it sounds, fartbending is a surprisingly useful power. It allows my character to use airbending in a manner Aang never did. Aang generally fought by making a fool out of his opponent, making them trip over themselves and such. Being 9 years old, Meelo fights more aggresively and brashly.

Here we see Meelo knocking out a couple of masked equalists with his flatulence. The first also shows agility as he does a backflip after getting off the guy's head.

While it is currently unknown whether the KOs were caused by pure concussive force or by their fetid nature, they're powerful regardless.

Here's the full gif:

And here he is breaking a vine with his fartbending.

Strength

Mystique has the same strength no matter what form she's in.

As for ways that she can kill you, she can end it pretty quick if she gets close, because she can make her hands into knives.

I specified when selecting my team that I would be using Mystique from all media including X-Men Evolution... so this gif is eligible.

She has enhanced strength as a result of her powers, here she knocks back Cyclops several feet.

Shapeshifting will be covered later in the debate. It is my most valuable asset, and you'll see why.

Why Meelostique will win

Allow me to display the features that I believe will give Meelostique a victory

• Evasiveness
• Strength
• Reaction Time
• Ability to close a distance quickly
• Fartbending
• Flight
• Durability and Regeneration

I believe that's all for my introduction. I look forward to seeing what you have in store!

I kinda just copied my intro from the previous debate. Didn't really feel the need to counter anything you said at the moment.

@thenewbluebeetle007: oh great, a bunch of gifs!

So after some filtering, this is what I consider worth to be adressed, since at this point I'm not sure if you are taking this seriously or not (those agility/reaction feats for Meelo are just ridiculous).

1. Agility and Reaction Time

> Mystique'Speed

Those are good feats at best but not that good. A rocket isn't as fast as a bullet for example, same goes for those projectiles being manipulated by Magneto, they don't seem to be faster than bullets.

2. Stealth

First feat is not regular Mystique, is the one who was an Apocalypse version, so I won't even consider it. Shapeshifting does not prevent your character from being sensed by Lady Dusk, who packs enhanced senses thanks to her Kherubim heritage, so Charis has very high levels of senses. most notably sight and hearing. This combined with empathy is more than enough for her to detect your character at this scenario.

3. Airbending

A bunch of feats from Meelo fighting random enemies. I'd like to see him again someone more skilled, you know against someone important who is not a fodder. For now we have a very weak version of Aang or an inexperienced earthbender.

4. Strength

Once again you bring feats against a bunch of cannon fodder and a younger version of Cyclops who packs zero durability feats. Come on..

Shapeshifting will be covered later in the debate. It is my most valuable asset, and you'll see why.

I hope so because so far you have nothing.. I mean, what happened to this statement:

nice opener! But I bet I can give you a run for your money.

So far this is a cakewalk =/

How can Meelostique win?!

By your feats he/she can't even pose as a threat to Lady Dusk. Please bring your A-game!

@higorm: dragon allowed the Apocalypse amp :) check the original thread if you want

@thenewbluebeetle007: that makes no sense since that's completely out of character but I won't waste my time arguing against it, I have a feeling that you might need as much help you can get.

Don't understand how it's out of character... the Apocalypse amp occured when Mystique was a horseman of Apocalypse... that's like saying that Death Seed Sentry would be out of character for Sentry battles. I think the terminology you used did not convey what you really wanted to say.

Also, cakewalk? I'm genuinely insulted.

Anyway...

Round 1!

My introduction may seem lackluster, but consider that its only purpose was to provide a bit of information on Meelo and Mystique and go over the points I would be stressing during the round. One of the best debaters on here gave me advice to never open with your best feats, so ostensibly I did not :)

You want my A-game? Here you go:

Rebuttals

First off, there's absolutely no way you're beating me with speed. Especially when we consider Mystique's durability and regeneration, which I will get to later.

As soon the battle starts Lady Dusk activates her double shielding to prevent being striked by surprise. Using the aura she can double her speed and add an unpredictability factor to her moves since she can also fly with it.

Cool. Mystique can fly too.

At first, she won't show any indication of offensive capability from the aura. Her empathy powers and body reading ability will allow her to predict the moves from her enemy (even against a shapeshifter) and properly counter-strike with her special gear.

Mental powers aren't going to work on Mystique, because she's immune.

And by the very rules, a character cannot be so good at mental powers that they can overcome willpower or resistance. So if you push this contention further it will be in direct violation of the rules considering Professor Xavier's telepathy feats.

As for body reading, Mystique doesn't fight like a human. She takes a variety of forms in combat, often shape shifting into a snake, a bat, a bird. Do show me feats that suggest Lady Dusk would be able to read the movements of such a combatant. Grifter and Zealot are nice, but combat skill is almost inconsequential here considering how fast my character can heal.

Being more skilled allows her a clear advantage at any sort of combat situation, and with a combination of strikes with aura spikes suddenly coming from nowhere should be enough to put the enemy down. Since I didn't saw any indication of superhuman durability, I believe that all she needs is one single hit to end this battle.

This is false. You can't beat someone who will just regenerate from every attack you hit her with. And even if your last statement were true, you'll never get a hit on her thanks to invisibility, agility, and reaction time. You say it's been a cakewalk, but have yet to

a. show me any feats that say Lady Dusk is superior

b. show me a counter for invisibility

The beauty of my amalgam character is that she is very skilled,

So is Mystique. And when using her invisibility and stealth in conjunction with powerful airbending blasts, you won't be able to lay a finger on me.

is packing a deadly weapon,

I assume you're speaking of the Creation Blades? Yes, those might be a bit tricky. But I hold firm to the belief that you'll never tag me. And if the fight drags on for a long time, Meelostique will see how powerful the creation blades are and use airbending to take them out of your hands.

possess enough combat and reaction speed to avoid attacks and counter-strike,

You can't avoid an attack if you don't know it's coming.

and most important pack a great level of durability at the tourney limits, since durability is limited to that of a large building, but not including energy shields or healing.

Meelostique has this as well.

Stats

Reaction Speeds

Those are good feats at best but not that good. A rocket isn't as fast as a bullet for example, same goes for those projectiles being manipulated by Magneto, they don't seem to be faster than bullets.

You want bullet feats?

How about Mystique dodging hundreds of bullets at once in an open area, contorting her body so the bullets don't hit her?

First feat is not regular Mystique, is the one who was an Apocalypse version, so I won't even consider it. Shapeshifting does not prevent your character from being sensed by Lady Dusk, who packs enhanced senses thanks to her Kherubim heritage, so Charis has very high levels of senses. most notably sight and hearing. This combined with empathy is more than enough for her to detect your character at this scenario.

Go read Wolverine #304. There, she has sex with Wolverine and he still doesn't know who she is. Also, would you care to enlighten me on what you mean by "sensed?" If it's smell or some sixth sense, she has consistently been able to mask herself from Wolverine, one of the best trackers in comics. So unless you can show me feats that put Charis above Wolverine, you're not detecting me anytime soon.

A bunch of feats from Meelo fighting random enemies. I'd like to see him again someone more skilled, you know against someone important who is not a fodder. For now we have a very weak version of Aang or an inexperienced earthbender.

The equalists gave Korra and Lin a good fight in Episode 6. They also took on Bolin prior to that. Since you evidently haven't watched Korra, Korra is Aang level as a fighter, Bolin is as good as maybe Aang in earthbending. Lin is maybe Katara level or a little worse.

And Meelo solo'd 5 of them in a few seconds.

Meelo is nothing close to Aang in the slightest. He's more ferocious and has one shotted peak humans with no effort. As I showed, he also nearly took down a mecha tank that even a giant tornado wasn't able to defeat. And in Season 3, he beat up some Bison Rustlers who defeated Jinora.

And inexperienced? I beg to differ. He's been fighting the good fight for about 4 years now.

Once again you bring feats against a bunch of cannon fodder and a younger version of Cyclops who packs zero durability feats. Come on.

Yeah, a peak human male who she sent bouncing like a basketball. The point is, my character effortlessly one shots peak humans.

Plan

Mystique will turn invisible like so

She'll then turn into bats like this:

And finally, each individual bat will use fart blasts that have staggered giant robots. The farts KO using a deadly combination of acridity and pure concussive force. And you've shown no durability feats whatsoever (come to think of it, you haven't shown any feats, period) so a few blasts every second while we're invisible will surely take you down.

In my next post I will elaborate on combat feats and what Meelostique has done to put her above Nemesis.

Summary

1. You haven't shown any feats
2. You can't sense me, and we can evade you
3. Airbending blasts KO

@higorm:

@thenewbluebeetle007: Yes, I'm on it. I had some internet instability, which prevented me from posting but hopefully everything is good now.

@thenewbluebeetle007:

Round 1... FIGHT!

Like I said, use it all you want, you're gonna need it, that's not worth arguing and we don't have anyone to get the final say to the matter anyway..

Yes, an absurdly and surprisingly easy task so far :P

My introduction may seem lackluster, but consider that its only purpose was to provide a bit of information on Meelo and Mystique and go over the points I would be stressing during the round. One of the best debaters on here gave me advice to never open with your best feats, so ostensibly I did not :)

Lackluster? Lackluster would be a compliment! Let's see how you do from now on shall we?

You want my A-game? Here you go:

Bring it!

First off, there's absolutely no way you're beating me with speed. Especially when we consider Mystique's durability and regeneration, which I will get to later.

What durability and regeneration have to do with speed?? If that's the case then my character wins by a landslide, considering she possess the double shielding combo.

Cool. Mystique can fly too.

Sure but how fast? Do you have any other feats besides that silly one with the bats?

But that doesn't matter anyway since Lady Dusk flies while protected by the aura and energy shield, still being able to attack the enemy, including from a long distance.

1. The scan only proves Mystique is immune to telepathy, which is something Lady Dusk does not possess anyway.

2. Lady Dusk possess empathy, also known as extra-sensory perception, yes, a derivation from psychic powers, but that works completely different. It's described as the power to interpret or replicate the emotions, moods, and temperaments of others. Since Nemesis is also an Adrastean, that means she has empathy, allowing her to sense others by sensing their feelings, so Lady Dusk is not using any sort of telepathic power, that rule doesn't say anything about finding the enemy through empathy. It's not something you can shut down without having psychic powers. So, having Mystique won't prevent your character from being sensed or having his moves predicted by my amalgam.

3. That's not a problem, like at all. Nemesis brings thousands of years worth training and combat experiencing, fighting against several different types of races, from monsters to aliens and such. There's nothing new your character can bring to a warrior that uses fighting as a second language. Not to mention that healing factor means nothing to a creation blade, since you don't pack enough durability to sustain a hit from this weapon which will cut right through Meelostique.

Ok, so let's say Lady Charis cut's her head off, can your character renegerate from that? As far as I'm concerned, Mystique packs Accelerated Healingto the point of allowing her to repair and regenerate herself from minor to near death injuries in a short span of time, much faster than an ordinary human.

a) No problem. Here you have an example of her reaction speed against a powerhouse (Majestic), check here.

b) I just did, empathy. She doesn't have to see the enemy if she can sense him coming. Check this scan to see how it works in a fight. I'd like to highlight one of her statements from that scan: "Suddenly, amidst the storm of rage and hatred around me, I sense something else.."As you can see, she was fighting Zealot and yet manage to sense someone coming from behing through a teleport and still manage to properly react to the incoming threat.

So is Mystique. And when using her invisibility and stealth in conjunction with powerful airbending blasts, you won't be able to lay a finger on me.

If your character come to this fight thinking he's untouchable, then you already lost this fight. That's all I need to say, really.

I assume you're speaking of the Creation Blades? Yes, those might be a bit tricky. But I hold firm to the belief that you'll never tag me. And if the fight drags on for a long time, Meelostique will see how powerful the creation blades are and use airbending to take them out of your hands.

I'd like to see that happening. Take the creation blades away from Lady Dusk who is being protected by a double shielding combination, that's not gonna happen. Not to mention that this fight isn't take that long, trust me.

You can't avoid an attack if you don't know it's coming.

Wrong. Actually, she knows, if she could avoid an attack coming from a teleporter that just suddenly appeared behind her while fighting Zealot, imagine what she will do against your character?

Meelostique has this as well.

Your level of durability is leagues below what Lady Dusk is packing here.

Summary

1. You haven't shown any feats - I just did, now it's your turn.
2. You can't sense me, and we can evade you.Wrong, as already explained (empathy).
3. Airbending blasts KO - Show me how your character will get pass the double shielding (energy + aura)? Cause airbending is not enough.

Round 2

Rebuttals

First off, there's absolutely no way you're beating me with speed. Especially when we consider Mystique's durability and regeneration, which I will get to later.

What durability and regeneration have to do with speed?? If that's the case then my character wins by a landslide, considering she possess the double shielding combo.

Your character does not win by a landslide under any circumstance, lol. My character's regen is quite amazing, as I will show you later on in this post.

Cool. Mystique can fly too.

Sure but how fast? Do you have any other feats besides that silly one with the bats?

Sure

In addition, in bat form, she evaded Cyclops' optic blasts... which have gone hundreds of feet instantaneously... she's right on the tourney's speed limit even in flying form.

But that doesn't matter anyway since Lady Dusk flies while protected by the aura and energy shield, still being able to attack the enemy, including from a long distance.

How is she going to attack something she can't see?

2. Lady Dusk possess empathy, also known as extra-sensory perception, yes, a derivation from psychic powers, but that works completely different. It's described as the power to interpret or replicate the emotions, moods, and temperaments of others. Since Nemesis is also an Adrastean, that means she has empathy, allowing her to sense others by sensing their feelings, so Lady Dusk is not using any sort of telepathic power, that rule doesn't say anything about finding the enemy through empathy. It's not something you can shut down without having psychic powers. So, having Mystique won't prevent your character from being sensed or having his moves predicted by my amalgam.

The criterion for utilizing empathy is that the opponent you're facing has feelings. Unfortunately for you, Apocalypse amp Mystique had no feeling whatsoever - she was brainwashed by Apocalypse into total submission, so much so that she attacks even her own son, Nightcrawler, as well as Wolverine and Cyclops.

3. That's not a problem, like at all. Nemesis brings thousands of years worth training and combat experiencing, fighting against several different types of races, from monsters to aliens and such. There's nothing new your character can bring to a warrior that uses fighting as a second language. Not to mention that healing factor means nothing to a creation blade, since you don't pack enough durability to sustain a hit from this weapon which will cut right through Meelostique.

Unless your character has fought an airbender who seamlessly transitions from animal form to human and back to fight, she absolutely brings something new. Fighting being a second language doesn't matter when you've never seen anything like Meelostique before.

Regarding the Creation Blades, this is once again based on the fault assumption that your character well detect me.

Ok, so let's say Lady Charis cut's her head off, can your character renegerate from that? As far as I'm concerned, Mystique packs Accelerated Healing to the point of allowing her to repair and regenerate herself from minor to near death injuries in a short span of time, much faster than an ordinary human.

a) No problem. Here you have an example of her reaction speed against a powerhouse (Majestic), check here.

Reaction speed won't matter a bit when a horde of bats are spamming air blasts at you, which you can neither see nor evade

b) I just did, empathy. She doesn't have to see the enemy if she can sense him coming. Check this scan to see how it works in a fight. I'd like to highlight one of her statements from that scan: "Suddenly, amidst the storm of rage and hatred around me, I sense something else.." As you can see, she was fighting Zealot and yet manage to sense someone coming from behing through a teleport and still manage to properly react to the incoming threat.

Even when disregarding the Apocalypse amp, Mystique should be immune to empathy. You see, Raven's power comes from psionically being able to shift her atoms to suit her needs. The fact that this is psionic in nature is the reason that telepathy doesn't work on her, and this also suits the criteria of having psychic powers that you mentioned earlier.

So is Mystique. And when using her invisibility and stealth in conjunction with powerful airbending blasts, you won't be able to lay a finger on me.

If your character come to this fight thinking he's untouchable, then you already lost this fight. That's all I need to say, really.

I fail to see how this is the case in the slightest. Mystique is cold and calculating, she doesn't get cocky at all. She's not quite as naive as you're making her out to be.

I assume you're speaking of the Creation Blades? Yes, those might be a bit tricky. But I hold firm to the belief that you'll never tag me. And if the fight drags on for a long time, Meelostique will see how powerful the creation blades are and use airbending to take them out of your hands.

I'd like to see that happening. Take the creation blades away from Lady Dusk who is being protected by a double shielding combination, that's not gonna happen. Not to mention that this fight isn't take that long, trust me.

I have a question for you: how dense is the shield? Does it protect against molecular level threats, or is it simply limited to human level threats? Mystique has shown the ability to seep through the cracks in a brick wall, and the airbending blasts have gotten through the equalists' masks for the KO, so you'd need to show resistance against this size of attack for it to truly come into play here. I've shown you the raw power of teh blasts being strong enough to stagger a mecha tank that wasn't fazed by a giant tornado, so unless you show me protection on the size of air molecules, we should be able to get through.

You can't avoid an attack if you don't know it's coming.

Wrong. Actually, she knows, if she could avoid an attack coming from a teleporter that just suddenly appeared behind her while fighting Zealot, imagine what she will do against your character?

A clearly inexperienced telporter who gave her adequate time to react and had no defense, psionic or otherwise, for empathy.

Meelostique has this as well.

Your level of durability is leagues above what Lady Dusk is packing here.

You're absolutely correct :)

Summary

1. You haven't shown any feats - I just did, now it's your turn. Sure
2. You can't sense me, and we can evade you.Wrong, as already explained (empathy). Charis's empathy is pathetic as far as I've seen, certainly not enough detect someone who doesn't have emotions and who already has psionic defense for it.
3. Airbending blasts KO - Show me how your character will get pass the double shielding (energy + aura)? Cause airbending is not enough. Airbending works perfectly. In addition you'd have no reason to activate your shields if you don't see anyone there.

Durability/Regeneration feats

Meelo doesn't have any notable feats in this regard... luckily, Mystique has plenty. I will show you one of the best ones right now.

She's regenerated from things like Cyclops' optic blasts.

Mystique didn't even flinch at that. She just stood there and took it.

Now, how powerful are Cyclops' blasts?

(skip to 1:50)

She recovered from a gaping hole in her chest, directly where some vital organs such as the large and small intestines are. Then she kept on fighting, showing no physical strain at all.

She also was unfazed by a direct stab from Wolverine's claws in the episode, regenerating immediately after.

So, even tagging her was feasible, none of your attacks would do much.

Combat Feats

Mystique:

• Has defeated Wolverine
• In X-Men: Evolution, Solo'd Wolverine and Cyclops, and would have beaten Nightcrawler too if he didn't run away
• In X-Men: Evolution, held her own against Storm for a while
• In X-Men: Evolution, evaded Magneto's attacks and got off some hits before getting thrown into a genetic enhancement chamber that prevented her from continuing the fight
  • Those are two of the 4 most powerful mutants in the whole series (Apocalypse and Juggernaut are the other two), and the fact that Mystique held her own is astounding
• Matched hands with Fantomex
• Beat Forge

Meelo:

• solo'd five equalists, the same equalists that have consistently given Avatar Korra, Bolin, and Mako a tough time
• Nearly felled a mecha tank - not even a tornado was able to do that

I can get more if you want, but this in conjunction with the vastly superior powerset and a style of fighting previously unseen by either of your parents will be more than enough.

Evasiveness

Meelostique gets remarkable evasiveness from both of her parents.

From Meelo:

Let's go over everything Meelo does in this fight, because there's a lot going on

• Along with the other airbenders, takes a skyscraper busting blast and just keeps on flying
• Evades the mecha tank's arm and spiritual energy cannon
• Uses airbending to pick up his father and cushion their fall

He manages to evade a huge energy blast that was as big as a skyscraper and moved extremely fast.

Meanwhile, Mystique is just as evasive, if not more so. Observe:

skip to 4:45 and watch for 30 seconds

Mystique is able to evade Wolverine's claws and Cyclops' optic blasts. The same optic blasts that covered half a football field in a single second. If invisibility wasn't enough, this proves that my character is too evasive and thus, you can't tag me.

Summary

1. You can't see me, nor can you tag me
2. Mystique fights as an animal as often as she fights as a human, which is unlike anything you've ever seen
3. Airbending blasts could get through your shields unless they've been proven to resist something as small as an air particle, and I have multiple invisible bats spamming blasts every second - their smell and concussive force are enough.
4. The smell alone should knock you out, considering it's KO'd peak humans in the past.

@higorm

@thenewbluebeetle007:

Counters & Co.

Your character does not win by a landslide under any circumstance, lol. My character's regen is quite amazing, as I will show you later on in this post.

I'm talking about durability, not regeneration, which are completely different things. Your character possess superior regeneration, yes, but to a creation blade that doesn't matter. The point is that my character is far superior in terms of durability, since Lady Dusk packs double shielding (energy + aura), while your character has none. Got it now?

In addition, in bat form, she evaded Cyclops' optic blasts... which have gone hundreds of feet instantaneously... she's right on the tourney's speed limit even in flying form.

Correction, she evaded YoungCyclops, not the 616 version. So you are bringing lower feats considering all those characters were inexperienced in comparison to the mainstream version. Now as for your speed, that feat alone does not serve as evidence to prove your character is on the tourney limit, and even if it was the case, the fact that Lady Dusk can react to a teleporter and a powerhouse like Mr. Majestic is more than sufficient to say that she's able to properly react to your character here.

How is she going to attack something she can't see?

She doesn't have to seeanything if she can sense the enemy, the same way she did against the teleporter.

The criterion for utilizing empathy is that the opponent you're facing has feelings. Unfortunately for you, Apocalypse amp Mystique had no feeling whatsoever - she was brainwashed by Apocalypse into total submission, so much so that she attacks even her own son, Nightcrawler, as well as Wolverine and Cyclops.

But empathy is the perfect answer for that. This particular power allows her to learn their past and secret desires among other things. If this is not a possibility, I'd have to question the fact that you are using this particular version for Mystique since the only way to get pass through her amp is by neutralizing Apocalypse, which is something out of question here. So, the same rule (n.12 - Telepathy like attacks are allowed, but character cannot be so good at TP that Will Power and/or Mental Defense has no way to combat against it.) must be applied in the same way for your controlled character.

Even then, that version of Wolverine was able to land some good hits on her, considering that's a weaker version, imagine what Lady Charis would do to your character. With the creation blades my amalgam would pretty much cut Meelostique in half, and then keep cutting until there's nothing left.

Unless your character has fought an airbender who seamlessly transitions from animal form to human and back to fight, she absolutely brings something new. Fighting being a second language doesn't matter when you've never seen anything like Meelostique before.

Regarding the Creation Blades, this is once again based on the fault assumption that your character well detect me.

Being something new has absolutely no effectiveness warranty. The fact that your character can do all that does not grant him an auto-win. You still have to prove he got what it takes to defeat my character, who possess insane levels of skill, durability and a mortal weapon.

If you see the video you will see that Wolverine was able to sense that there's something beyond the wall, that's why he sent Nightcrawler there. This proves that those Apocalypse characters are not immune to senses.

Reaction speed won't matter a bit when a horde of bats are spamming air blasts at you, which you can neither see nor evade

I'm not sure if those air blasts are faster than bullets, let alone faster than a angry powerhouse coming towards you at high speeds. The fact that you're trying to sell that those air blast will be enough to K.O. an enhanced being with a double shielding protection is utterly laughable.

Even when disregarding the Apocalypse amp, Mystique should be immune to empathy. You see, Raven's power comes from psionically being able to shift her atoms to suit her needs. The fact that this is psionic in nature is the reason that telepathy doesn't work on her, and this also suits the criteria of having psychic powers that you mentioned earlier.

Should be, could be, must be, all that is just baseless assumptions. I work with facts, my character is an empath. Once again, telepathy has nothing to do with empathy. Mystique's nature only provides her with a natural defence against telepathic intrusion. Lady Dusk can't access your mind, but can feel your presence. If that was the case, Wolverine shouldn't be able to sense her. yet he was able to do that before. In addition to this power, Lady Dusk can use her enhanced senses like hearing, so there's more than one way to sense the enemy here.

I fail to see how this is the case in the slightest. Mystique is cold and calculating, she doesn't get cocky at all. She's not quite as naive as you're making her out to be.

You have to make a decision about your characters mood. If you are using the animation version, you can't expect me to believe that Meelostique will act the same way 616 Mystique would. You can't pick the goodies of one version without leaving the bad parts. I won't accept that. If you want the apocalypse version, so be it but she also comes with all other innate features.

You want some feats huh? Next scans shows Nemesis tanking a building explosion with her shield as well as being bulletproof.

Gallery

As the scan shows, she doesn't need to hold the shield in one arm, she can just form it around here like he did to protect herself from the explosion. That's why my character is a bad much for yours, she can pretty much strike you in several different ways while being protected by a double shielding combination (energy + aura shields)

A clearly inexperienced telporter who gave her adequate time to react and had no defense, psionic or otherwise, for empathy.

First you have no idea about who was that teleporter so don't start low balling here. You're clearly trying to ignore the feat, don't do that. Your character has no defense either, so..

You're absolutely correct :)

Yes I know.

Summary

1. You haven't shown any feats - I just did, now it's your turn. Sure
2. You can't sense me, and we can evade you.Wrong, as already explained (empathy). Charis's empathy is pathetic as far as I've seen, certainly not enough detect someone who doesn't have emotions and who already has psionic defense for it.
3. Airbending blasts KO - Show me how your character will get pass the double shielding (energy + aura)? Cause airbending is not enough. Airbending works perfectly. In addition you'd have no reason to activate your shields if you don't see anyone there.

1. That's all you have to say? So you concede this point to me?

2. Pathetic is your attempt to disqualify a legitimate empathic feat. And once again, your character are no immune to it, so Lady Dusk will be able to detect the enemy just fine, not to mention she still have enhanced hearing to complement her perception.

3.Not it doesn't. You have not provided one single evidence to attest that an air blast is enough to get through a combination of energy and aura shielding. My character has all the reason in the world to activate the shields since she knows this is a combat situation, and being a thousand years experienced warrior it would make no sense for her to not do that right off the bat. In addition, that's placed at my strategy from the beginning.

Main Strategy

As soon the battle starts Lady Dusk activates her double shielding to prevent being striked by surprise. Using the aura she can double her speed and add an unpredictability factor to her moves since she can also fly with it

@higorm: will try to get a response up by tomorrow. I've suddenly been flooded with CaVs XD

@thenewbluebeetle007: Okay.

Round 2

Counter Town!

Can you lay out your "trump card" now? I've read enough of your debates to know that you always have them. Then I'll rebut once again.

@thenewbluebeetle007: time to seal the deal!

Counterwork!

> Durability/Creation Blades

Pretty sure Meelo taking a building busting energy cannon is good enough durability. And what level does a creation blade cut on? Molecular, atomic, what? Because if it's just a normal blade that can cut through anything, Mystique could regenerate the same we she did with Wolverine.

That feat doesn't worth anything here because my character isn't displaying energy based attacks. You have zero durability regarding to the creation blades that can cut anything. Speaking of which, the creation blades are two swords made from shards of the Creation Engine, which was said to be the most dangerous weapon ever constructed. At some point in the history of the universe, the Creation Engine was broken into pieces that were scattered across time and space. Pieces of it fell to prehistoric Earth and were found by a group of Kherubim, known as the Brotherhood of the Sword, that had partnered with Daemonites. True to their name, the Brotherhood forged the shards into two blades. The leader of the Brotherhood, a Kheran named Raven, engaged Nemesis with the swords and she managed to take one from him before escaping. Over the thousands of years that followed, Nemesis waged a one-woman war against the Brotherhood until she eventually killed Raven and took the other sword. The blades became her trademark weapons until her seeming death, when they passed into the hands of Mr. Majestic.

The swords ability to cut through anything has been put to the test. They've easily cut through the near-invulnerable skin of Mr. Majestic and even the mad reality-warping Tao. In the case of Tao, they hurt him when that should not have been possible and even though he controlled reality itself, when he was impaled with the swords he couldn't access his full powers and was barely able to stand and speak until they were removed. The swords also seem to be very durable. The shards were found in a volcano and when Majestic, impaled by the swords, fell into a volcano, they were retrieved undamaged.

Gallery

(Mr. Majestic + Reality Warper > Mystique's healing)

> Mystique's feats

Mojority of his young life, which doesn't mean much to be honest. If you were using the 616 version, than I'd agree, but that's not the case here. Being a team leader is proof of what? Leader of a team composed of a bunch of children and adolescents, how great is that? Come on.. Also, his blasts moves at high speeds, not his aim or reaction speed, that's why she was able to dodge him. Most of the street level characters you are used to see do that.

And she will be able to use empathy just fine, I don't see any reason to believe otherwise.

Will be covered later.

That's gonna be too late to cover anything :P

> Telepathy x Empathy

I'm not sure I completely understand your issue with the rules here. Like you said, the rule applies only to telepathy, not telepathy resistance. The point of the amp is that you can't get through it, Dragon never specified any rules about resistance, only about offense. And I'm only utilizing it in a defensive manner.

My issue is that you insist to categorize those powers as being the same thing, it's not. Nemesis doesn't have telepathy at all. She can't get through anything here since that's not the way her powers work, she's only able to sense people. There's nothing related to the mind, there's no point of using it as defensive manner considering that in the first place Mystique's telepathy resistance is a innate passive ability, she doesn't need to activate it in order to work. Your own scan was clear to the point that Prof X. explained he wouldn't even try entering into her mind becuase of that. Get it now? Nemesis is only sensingyour character, notaccessinghis mind.

s

That was because Mystique was familiar with Wolverine and his skill level, and thus allowed him to get hits in. Against a new opponent, she will not take this risk. And to cut me in half you'd have to

a. find me

b. tag me

I don't see either of those happening given the feats that I've shown.

Not sure about that, even less sure about which kind of behavior your character is displaying here, Meelo? 616 Mystique? The apocalypse version? Remember, you have to choose one, there's no such thing as composite personality.

a) Already presented different ways to prove how my character would find yours, either by empathy or superhuman hearing.

b) If the manage to tag Mr. Majestic then she can tag your character.

I don't believe I ever said my character's victory would be brought about by simply being a foreign foe. I said she would win for other reasons.

So far, your others reasons not even scratched the surface, so that's why I said that.

No, it actually doesn't. It shows that Apocalypse was so laughably above Wolverine and his team that he didn't care whether he was sensed, as he was able to dispose of Nightcrawler in a few seconds.

Also, if you go to 4:10 of the video, Wolverine explicitly states he's unable to sense Mystique, effectively negating your point.

That doesn't make sense at all. There was no indication of that thought from him. I'm only stating what was presented to me, which is Wolverine sensing a danger beyond the wall. Not to mention that Wolverine sensing is related to his mutant power, which has nothing to do with empathy.

No, what's laughable is that your clinging to this rather ridiculous notion that your character can't be touched. You still haven't shown me molecular level feats of either of the two shields, and the air blasts have staggered mecha tanks and produced a stench so fetid that it KOs people.

Oh no, this again. I'll just post these two feats to show the level of durability my character is packing here. Just note that with the aura, my character is isolated from harm, so don't expect me to believe that air blasts will be able to penetrate it.

Gallery

You even said it yourself: if the character has psychic powers then they would be immune to empathy. Mystique's power stems from psionic shifting of molecules, which is why she has a defense against TP and thus empathy. When did Wolverine sense her???

Considering that airbenders are trained from birth not to make a sound, and that Mystique is a master assassin, enhanced hearing won't help.

The only thing I said was telepathy resistance, and I've already explained the difference between the two, I don't know why you keep bringing this issue. Mystique's ability is only meant to resist a TP assault, mind scanning and the related, it says nothing about empathy. You should know your character better, Wolverine and Mystique has had many encounters before and only after her resurrection by The Hand, her powers have been enhanced to a higher level than they were before, to the degree that she could fool super-humanly acute senses such as Wolverine's sense of smell, something she couldn't do before her death.

So you are saying that your character will attack me with air blasts, make changes in air stream without making a single noise? The fact that they find themselves into a combat situation knowing the enemy is around plus the fact that my character possess hundreds of years worth combat experience, enhanced hearing and empathy powers, you really want to present the idea of your character being undetectable? Highly unlikely, that's a big of a stretch from your part honestly.

Apocalypse amp Mystique played games with her 3 opponents, scouting them out before deciding the best way to attack. If that's not calculating, I don't know what is.

I'm fine with that, but you must stick with it. The way I see it that was an enhanced version of a character dealing with 3 mutants which versions are inferior if compared to the mainstream versions. Not to mention that only Wolverine could be considered a worth opponent to her since he's more experienced. That's a good feat but not enough to say she could best Nemesis in a fight for example, who is much more experienced then Wolverine and more deadly as well.

I don't see any molecular level feats.

Are you kidding me? Her energy shield was able to protect her from a explosion that even hurt Mr. Majestic.

I'm taking it from the scan... Nemesis herself said the teleporter was naive and innocent. I've already shown you 2 different defenses, so..

There's context behind that statement. She meant naive in relation to Savant trying to help Zealot in a fight, meaning she was using a move that wouldn't work on here, since she possess empathy. Savant isn't that naive since she's is the daughter of Zealot and Majestic. She was raised as Zealot's sister and for most of her life (thousands of years) was unaware of her parentage. She and Majestic started the WildC.A.T.S replacement team after the original team was thought dead. Also, as a Kherubim, Savant possesses all the powers and abilities inherent to her race. This includes functional immortality, increased durability, and superhuman strength. She possesses seven-league boots, which allow her to travel at supersonic speeds, as well as to teleport.

The original statement was that my character's durability far surpasses yours (likely a typo on your part) which is what I was agreeing with,lol.

I know, but since I've edited it, it doens't make sense for you anymore :P

Did you even read the rest of my post??? I showed you a bunch of different feats. "Sure" meant, "sure, I guess it is my turn. here are some feats."

Durability-wise the only thing I saw was your misconception about durability since you said for yourself that:

Meelo doesn't have any notable feats in this regard... luckily, Mystique has plenty. I will show you one of the best ones right now.

She's regenerated from things like Cyclops' optic blasts.

So, one of your characters doesn't have durability feats. And the other possess only regeneration feats, which is different from durability. Let me illustrate to you

Durability:

Regenaration:

Can you lay out your "trump card" now? I've read enough of your debates to know that you always have them. Then I'll rebut once again.

I don't know, i'm saving it for a tougher challenge :P

@higorm: this has been fun, how many more posts until votes?

@thenewbluebeetle007: I'm ready for votes if you are..

Sure, just give me one more post because you went first

@thenewbluebeetle007: Okay.

Summary and Conclusion

This post is going to rather large, so I am creating a table of contents to make the post more intelligible.

Table of Contents:

• Final Rebuttals
• Each Person's strategy
• Who hits who?
• Conclusion

Part A: Final Rebuttals

> Durability/Creation Blades

Pretty sure Meelo taking a building busting energy cannon is good enough durability. And what level does a creation blade cut on? Molecular, atomic, what? Because if it's just a normal blade that can cut through anything, Mystique could regenerate the same we she did with Wolverine.

That feat doesn't worth anything here because my character isn't displaying energy based attacks. You have zero durability regarding to the creation blades that can cut anything. Speaking of which, the creation blades are two swords made from shards of the Creation Engine, which was said to be the most dangerous weapon ever constructed. At some point in the history of the universe, the Creation Engine was broken into pieces that were scattered across time and space. Pieces of it fell to prehistoric Earth and were found by a group of Kherubim, known as the Brotherhood of the Sword, that had partnered with Daemonites. True to their name, the Brotherhood forged the shards into two blades. The leader of the Brotherhood, a Kheran named Raven, engaged Nemesis with the swords and she managed to take one from him before escaping. Over the thousands of years that followed, Nemesis waged a one-woman war against the Brotherhood until she eventually killed Raven and took the other sword. The blades became her trademark weapons until her seeming death, when they passed into the hands of Mr. Majestic.

The swords ability to cut through anything has been put to the test. They've easily cut through the near-invulnerable skin of Mr. Majestic and even the mad reality-warping Tao. In the case of Tao, they hurt him when that should not have been possible and even though he controlled reality itself, when he was impaled with the swords he couldn't access his full powers and was barely able to stand and speak until they were removed. The swords also seem to be very durable. The shards were found in a volcano and when Majestic, impaled by the swords, fell into a volcano, they were retrieved undamaged.

I understand that they can cut through anything. Earlier, you hinted at using John Dusk's aura in an offensive manner, so in anticipation of this strategy, I displayed Meelo's energy-related durability feats.

Gallery

(Mr. Majestic + Reality Warper > Mystique's healing)

> Mystique's feats

Mojority of his young life, which doesn't mean much to be honest. If you were using the 616 version, than I'd agree, but that's not the case here. Being a team leader is proof of what? Leader of a team composed of a bunch of children and adolescents, how great is that? Come on.. Also, his blasts moves at high speeds, not his aim or reaction speed, that's why she was able to dodge him. Most of the street level characters you are used to see do that.

You're underestimating the X-Men... they're teenagers, yes, but they're highly skilled teenagers. That bunch of kids you're referring to? They defeated Juggernaut. Juggernaut. The man immune to physical damage. They also defeated Mesmero, Sentinels, and Magneto.

Cyclops is actually quite proficient at aiming his blasts. Observe:

Scott is able to hit a flying disc... that target was moving, and it's about the same size as a bat. Yet he was able to hit it without any trouble.

And again:

Now this may not look very impressive at first, so let's take a look at Juggernaut's helmet.

See that small golden strap in the bottom-right hand corner of the helmet? That's what Cyclops had to hit to get the helmet off. And he was able to do that.

Yet, Mystique, who was only a few feet away in bat form (which is bigger than the strap), was able to evade each and every optic blast fired.

Look how fast the blasts are going; they're just as fast as Nemesis if not faster. If she can evade these optic blasts, she can evade someone swinging a sword.

And she will be able to use empathy just fine, I don't see any reason to believe otherwise.

Will be covered later.

That's gonna be too late to cover anything :P

I meant it would be covered later in the post, which it did.

> Telepathy x Empathy

I'm not sure I completely understand your issue with the rules here. Like you said, the rule applies only to telepathy, not telepathy resistance. The point of the amp is that you can't get through it, Dragon never specified any rules about resistance, only about offense. And I'm only utilizing it in a defensive manner.

My issue is that you insist to categorize those powers as being the same thing, it's not. Nemesis doesn't have telepathy at all. She can't get through anything here since that's not the way her powers work, she's only able to sense people. There's nothing related to the mind, there's no point of using it as defensive manner considering that in the first place Mystique's telepathy resistance is a innate passive ability, she doesn't need to activate it in order to work. Your own scan was clear to the point that Prof X. explained he wouldn't even try entering into her mind becuase of that. Get it now?Nemesis is only sensingyour character, notaccessinghis mind.

She's able to sense people by picking up on their emotion. Apocalypse amp Mystique lacks emotion entirely; Apocalypse brainwashed her to be that way. Why else would she attack her own son?

That was because Mystique was familiar with Wolverine and his skill level, and thus allowed him to get hits in. Against a new opponent, she will not take this risk. And to cut me in half you'd have to

a. find me

b. tag me

I don't see either of those happening given the feats that I've shown.

Not sure about that, even less sure about which kind of behavior your character is displaying here, Meelo? 616 Mystique? The apocalypse version? Remember, you have to choose one, there's no such thing as composite personality.

a) Already presented different ways to prove how my character would find yours, either by empathy or superhuman hearing.

If you look at 4:10 of the video, as I said before, Wolverine, who has highly enhanced senses, is completely unable to sense Mystique in the slightest. Empathy doesn't work for reasons listed above.

b) If the manage to tag Mr. Majestic then she can tag your character.

Actually, considering my character is on the tourney limits for speed considering Meelo circled Air Temple Island (a mile-long island) in 30 seconds or so, and because Mystique can make herself a jet, there are two possible scenarios here:

1. Both of our characters are just within the tourney limits, meaning equal speed. This would mean that evasiveness now becomes the prime criterion in you tagging me, and given Mystique's ability to contort her body to dodge bullets and her evading Cyclops in bat form, I don't see that happening.

I don't believe I ever said my character's victory would be brought about by simply being a foreign foe. I said she would win for other reasons.

So far, your others reasons not even scratched the surface, so that's why I said that.

To the contrary, my reasons have been perfectly valid.

No, it actually doesn't. It shows that Apocalypse was so laughably above Wolverine and his team that he didn't care whether he was sensed, as he was able to dispose of Nightcrawler in a few seconds.

Also, if you go to 4:10 of the video, Wolverine explicitly states he's unable to sense Mystique, effectively negating your point.

That doesn't make sense at all. There was no indication of that thought from him. I'm only stating what was presented to me, which is Wolverine sensing a danger beyond the wall. Not to mention that Wolverine sensing is related to his mutant power, which has nothing to do with empathy.

If you actually looked to 4:10 like I told you to and watched for the next 10-15 seconds, you would have found that Wolverine was unable to sense Mystique. Your empathy has already been countered (Mystique's psionic defense and complete lack of emotion); the Wolverine feat was to put aside your claims about superhuman hearing.

The reason he could sense Apocalypse himself is because Apoc didn't care if he was sensed; he knew how easy it would be to defeat the three heroes.

No, what's laughable is that your clinging to this rather ridiculous notion that your character can't be touched. You still haven't shown me molecular level feats of either of the two shields, and the air blasts have staggered mecha tanks and produced a stench so fetid that it KOs people.

Oh no, this again. I'll just post these two feats to show the level of durability my character is packing here. Just note that with the aura, my character is isolated from harm, so don't expect me to believe that air blasts will be able to penetrate it.

First off: this is one feat, not two.

Second: Meelo's blasts aren't something he creates. He bends the air (hence the title "airbender") and forces it onto your person with such force (and stench) that you get knocked out. Considering that there is certainly air inside your barrier (otherwise you couldn't breathe), he would just be bending the air to KO you. You've used Toph in debates, you should know how airbending works.

Gallery

You even said it yourself: if the character has psychic powers then they would be immune to empathy. Mystique's power stems from psionic shifting of molecules, which is why she has a defense against TP and thus empathy. When did Wolverine sense her???

Considering that airbenders are trained from birth not to make a sound, and that Mystique is a master assassin, enhanced hearing won't help.

The only thing I said was telepathy resistance, and I've already explained the difference between the two, I don't know why you keep bringing this issue. Mystique's ability is only meant to resist a TP assault, mind scanning and the related, it says nothing about empathy. You should know your character better, Wolverine and Mystique has had many encounters before and only after her resurrection by The Hand, her powers have been enhanced to a higher level than they were before, to the degree that she could fool super-humanly acute senses such as Wolverine's sense of smell, something she couldn't do before her death.

So you are saying that your character will attack me with air blasts, make changes in air stream without making a single noise? The fact that they find themselves into a combat situation knowing the enemy is around plus the fact that my character possess hundreds of years worth combat experience, enhanced hearing and empathy powers, you really want to present the idea of your character being undetectable? Highly unlikely, that's a big of a stretch from your part honestly.

Hundreds of years of combat won't matter when you're fighting invisible airbending bats. Empathy and hearing were addressed earlier.

Apocalypse amp Mystique played games with her 3 opponents, scouting them out before deciding the best way to attack. If that's not calculating, I don't know what is.

I'm fine with that, but you must stick with it. The way I see it that was an enhanced version of a character dealing with 3 mutants which versions are inferior if compared to the mainstream versions. Not to mention that only Wolverine could be considered a worth opponent to her since he's more experienced. That's a good feat but not enough to say she could best Nemesis in a fight for example, who is much more experienced then Wolverine and more deadly as well.

I've stuck with Apoc amp Mystique for this whole debate. Cyclops, Nightcrawler and Wolverine are still all highly trained.

Had she defeated them in hand to hand with them giving her a decent fight I would agree with you. As it stands, however, she dominated them without a scratch, using her powers, not any H2H skill.

I don't see any molecular level feats.

Are you kidding me? Her energy shield was able to protect her from a explosion that even hurt Mr. Majestic.

You haven't shown any of Majestic's feats.

And explosions are not the same thing as air blasts, two separate types of attacks entirely.

In fact, in the Avatar verse, there are 4 main types of attacks: earth, water, fire, and air. A "sub-element" of fire is explosion/combustion. Considering that Meelostique is manipulating the air that's already present, he'll be able to defeat you.

I'm taking it from the scan... Nemesis herself said the teleporter was naive and innocent. I've already shown you 2 different defenses, so..

There's context behind that statement. She meant naive in relation to Savant trying to help Zealot in a fight, meaning she was using a move that wouldn't work on here, since she possess empathy. Savant isn't that naive since she's is the daughter of Zealot and Majestic. She was raised as Zealot's sister and for most of her life (thousands of years) was unaware of her parentage. She and Majestic started the WildC.A.T.S replacement team after the original team was thought dead. Also, as a Kherubim, Savant possesses all the powers and abilities inherent to her race. This includes functional immortality, increased durability, and superhuman strength. She possesses seven-league boots, which allow her to travel at supersonic speeds, as well as to teleport.

This is kinda inconsequential now

The original statement was that my character's durability far surpasses yours (likely a typo on your part) which is what I was agreeing with,lol.

I know, but since I've edited it, it doens't make sense for you anymore :P

But you didn't edit my quote of the original statement :D

Did you even read the rest of my post??? I showed you a bunch of different feats. "Sure" meant, "sure, I guess it is my turn. here are some feats."

Durability-wise the only thing I saw was your misconception about durability since you said for yourself that:

Meelo doesn't have any notable feats in this regard... luckily, Mystique has plenty. I will show you one of the best ones right now.

She's regenerated from things like Cyclops' optic blasts.

So, one of your characters doesn't have durability feats. And the other possess only regeneration feats, which is different from durability. Let me illustrate to you

As you've said yourself, durability is irrelevant here as the Creation Blades cut through anything. Thus the question becomes, can you hit me before eventually succumbing to the air blasts? Given the evidence shown, I believe it's fair to say that you cannot.

Whew, that was long...

Part B: Reiterating Each Person's strategy

My Strategy

1. Meelostique becomes a swarm of invisible bats
2. The bats surround you and evade if necessary
3. The bats all blast you at the same time. While you may be able to take a few blasts, it's foolish to think that you can take an infinite number. Seeing as how you can't tag me, the blasts and air manipulation will eventually defeat you.

HigorM's strategy

1. Double Aura
2. Stab with Creation Blades

This was simply to clarify what I'm defending/attacking in the following passages.

Part C: Who Hits Who?

Defensive Argument 1: Empathy

Higor's empathy argument:

My response to this argument:

Defensive Argument 2: Super-Hearing

Higor's argument:

My response was once again twofold:

Defensive Argument 3: Creation Blades

Higor's argument:

My response:

Offensive Argument 1: Airbending

Higor's defense:

My response:

I stuck to a single offensive this entire debate, defending it as necessary.

Conclusion

Though Lady Dusk is a fearsome fighter, this is simply a bad matchup for her. Her years of battle experience will mean nothing when she faces an invisible opponent who turns into bats in the first second, while her empathy and hearing won't work thanks to Mystique's brainwashing at the hands of Apocalypse and her feats against those with enhanced senses.

Meanwhile, Meelostique can stay undetected and keep her distance, eventually wearing down Dusk's shields with airbending blasts, and knocking her out with fetid farts and pure concussive force.

For all the above reasons, I believe I should emerge victorious in this episode of Challenge a Viner.

Thank You

@higorm: thank you my friend, this has been a blast. Now go respond in the final round of my tournament :P

Voting Time!

Voting's open

@cosmicallyaware1@lvenger@attackonshahbaz@nimamindtricks@hulkage@arcus@firestormfate1919@speedster101@oceanmaster21@icecold14@comicdude360:

sorry if I didn't tag, it's late and I'm tired. Anyone is welcome to vote.

@thenewbluebeetle007: I can't read it over tonight, but I'll try to tomorrow

@thenewbluebeetle007:

@higorm: thank you my friend, this has been a blast. Now go respond in the final round of my tournament :P

No, thank you! This was a very fun debate. Will post there asap!

Now let me tag some people as well:

@jestersmiles / @sirfizzwhizz / @beatboks1 / @sherlock / @floopay / @killerwasp / @dedmanwalkin / @laflux / @joewell

I can try to read and vote on this at some point but amalgam CAVs are not quite my specialty to judge on.

some other people...

@ssj_god@lukehero@sightlessreality:

come vote if you have the time

as long as you give a fair read and vote it's fine :)

@thenewbluebeetle007:

well.. it's late night for me.. so i'll go off now.. i'll remember to read tomorrow :)

thanks in advance :D

@higorm: @thenewbluebeetle007: I'll start by saying that this was ridiculously close, and I was just about ready to call it a complete stalemate. That being said, I'm giving a vote to TNBB. The debate itself was almost completely even, with both of you having all the main components down (solid evidence, structure, formatting, argumentation, etc). The fidelity and logic of the arguments was the big factor (as it almost always is). The battle itself was also very close to seeming a stalemate. I honestly don't think Higor ever had a viable way to tag (although I believe detection through empathy wouldn't be the issue) Melostique. On the contrary, TNBB had no feats of enough power to penetrate Lady Dusk's Aura/Forcefields. For me it all came down to air bending, and it's more refined forms (without the arbitrary use of mere blasts). TNBB had a good point in saying that there was air inside the field, and that air could easily be exploited. This would almost certainly result in Lady Dusk's downfall. The big issue there in my opinion was that "Refined" simply isn't Melo's style. I've never watched Korra but from what I've seen here Melo seems like a raw power guy, and there wasn't really sufficient evidence that he could bend through solid obstacles (something like levitating a person from another room, or opening a door from the other side of a wall). in the end however, I was just more convinced by TNBB (although I certainly felt that Lady Dusk would be a force to be reckoned). Like I said, this was one of the closest matches I've seen and could very likely be a stalemate (I was literally 51/49 on the matter).

Just saying, in an amalgam, you choose the personality of one of the parents (in this case I chose Mystique) so how Meelo normally uses airbending shouldn't be an issue.

But thank you for your vote, the read, and the elaborate explanation :)

Scoring

TNBB (1)

• FirestormFate1919

@higorm (0)

@firestormfate1919: Of course there was air inside the field. How could John Dusk breathe in the first place? Meelostique air blasts comes from the outside and he didn't proved how they would get inside. Think about the both explosion examples I provided. If the shield was so easily reachable how could they have survived two major explosions? One of the results being air bursts among other things. You can see that there was no indication of any sort of damage to the two characters inside the aura bubble after the explosion.. For me that argument makes no sense at all. I wont even bother addressing the rest because that's not my style, I just wanted to clarify this specific point..

@thenewbluebeetle007: Could you please edit the title so people know that we need votes?

@higorm: done

@thenewbluebeetle007: Thanks.

@firestormfate1919: @higorm: no more arguing please. Don't respond to each other. I'm stopping this before it gets out of hand. Don't respond to this either.

@thenewbluebeetle007: Relax bro, there's nothing going out hand. I just wanted to make a point. I made it pretty clear on my previous post that I'd not try to argue his vote.

okay, sorry. I just read some of ILS's debates who always questions his opponents and sometimes gets out of hand :P so I'm a little tense

@thenewbluebeetle007: Oh well, that's one sad thing to do, perhaps you should read other debates, that's all I can really say ;P

Come on people let's vote!!

@cosmicallyaware1@lvenger@attackonshahbaz@nimamindtricks@hulkage@arcus@speedster101@oceanmaster21@icecold14@comicdude360@jestersmiles / @sirfizzwhizz / @beatboks1 / @sherlock / @floopay / @killerwasp / @dedmanwalkin / @laflux / @joewell / @wyldsong

First off, I would like to say in fight I think that Lady Dusk would near spite stomp. But CaV's are not about who you think wins, but who argued better. And I have to say that TNBB really did well considering the opponents he had. I would have liked to see more from HigorM using John Dusk (Since I f*ck with absolution heavy). But at the end of the day, I think he put together a more logical argument concerning who was going to win, so I'll give the round to him.

Give me a second to read.