#1 Edited by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

First round with all their weapons but each one gets 1 gun only. Second round they all have their hidden blade and Altair and Ezio have a sword and Connor has tomahawk. Third round h2h only no weapons. Ezio from the brotherhood or Revelations. To death. Takes place in the frontier. No apple of Eden. Provide reason.

#2 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

No one

#3 Posted by BlueComet (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

Ezio

#4 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Why

#5 Posted by God_Spawn (37382 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone even beaten AC 3 yet to even know the answer?

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#6 Posted by BlueComet (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

@Qpzmg: He has more showings than the other two and didn't AC3 like just come out? Connors only feats that I've seen are from the E3 game trailer.

#7 Posted by RingSlinger (533 posts) - - Show Bio

Haytham

#8 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

#9 Posted by ComicKID777 (287 posts) - - Show Bio

Altair.

#10 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 - Ezio

R2 - IDK

R3 - Conner

#11 Posted by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I've seen Connor looked more lethal during his gameplay

#12 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1:Connor. Round 2: Altair. Round 3:Ezio.

#13 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering the local, Connor has a massive advantage over Altair and Ezio. For one, they can't traverse the environment as skillfully or gracefully as he can. In terms of skill, I'd say Altair is still the best and he's still regarded, even in present times, as the greatest Assassin who has ever lived.

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#14 Posted by ComicKID777 (287 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Considering the local, Connor has a massive advantage over Altair and Ezio. For one, they can't traverse the environment as skillfully or gracefully as he can. In terms of skill, I'd say Altair is still the best and he's still regarded, even in present times, as the greatest Assassin who has ever lived.

This. This right here.

#15 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Connor is so much stronger it's ridiculous. Like, he almost has super strength. One of his synch kills with a sword is a shoulder bash. Just a shoulder bash. It one shots people and sends them flying 15 feet. Also when it comes to agility and speed he's in a class of his own.

#16 Posted by Fortified_Hooligan (1975 posts) - - Show Bio

By the end of their lives Ezio has better gear, and better mobility, but you have to take into account that Altair should be considred to have the Apple as standard kit from the time he's in his mid twenties.

#17 Posted by Gotham's Dark Knight (28 posts) - - Show Bio

1st. Round:Conner.

Are you guys crazy? Conner is ambidextrous, he should easy overwhelm Ezio, and Altair in combat.

2nd. Round: Ezio, or Altair.

Considering they have the reach, it would either be Ezio or Altair.(If I was a betting man, I would pick Altair)

3rd Round: Conner

Conner has been stated to be much stronger than the previous Assassins. So, even if Ezio, or Altair can match him in skill, they can't in strength.

#18 Posted by GhostRider2 (3275 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gotham's Dark Knight: Nah, Altair would own them in combat....he is the master(i played all games).

#19 Posted by Gotham's Dark Knight (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2: So have I. The only thing Altair showed in the games that he was superior, was the use of the Apple. Altair can use the apple to it's full potential. Where is Ezio, would faint after to much use. It never show Connor's ability with the apple. Since the Apple is not in any of the battles, I confident enough to say Ezio, and Conner can match Altair skill-wise.

#20 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider2 said:

@Gotham's Dark Knight: Nah, Altair would own them in combat....he is the master(i played all games).

Altair has never been stated to be more skilled than Ezio and Connor. All 3 of them were grand master assassins. If you just look at the animations from their combo kills/kill streaks Connor's demonstrate far more agility and strength. Skill is much harder to interpret, though I would say Altair's best feat of skill was the boss fight against Robert De Sable, or rather, the fight just before that where he has to take on like 10 templars at once. It's not like Connor and Ezio are strangers to taking on massive amounts of enemies at once though.

#21 Edited by GhostRider2 (3275 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gotham's Dark Knight:Yeah but Ezio had 3 games Altair just one so there is not very much to show and Connor one but who knows....i wish they make another with Altair.Anyway i still say Altair.

#22 Posted by AverageMan (138 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 Connor

Round 2 Altair

Round 3 Ezio

#23 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: All their weapons but each one gets 1 gun only.

Technically this would give Altair the Apple. He's literally had the Apple for most of his life already. If he has the Apple then it's no contest. Even Old Man Altair with the Apple stomps.

Round 2: They all have their hidden blade and Altair and Ezio have a sword and Connor has tomahawk.

Altair fought through two armies, to challenge Robert de Sable. Then Altair defeated a dozen Templars to kill Robert, each one fully armored and easily the elite warriors of that game. You desync anytime you get hit meaning that Altair wasn't hit. This is even more impressive considering he was totally unarmored so he needed to evade everything.

Ezio's greatest feat was in Brotherhood. He snuck past two armies to chase down Cesare. When fighting Cesare, he continually evades Ezios attacks and he's fighting at most three low level peons at a time. To 100% sync Ezio can't lose 5 health squares which means that he was hit a few times. Note that even then he had legendary armor which deflected a lot of damage.

Conner doesn't have any comparable feats so far to my knowledge but I haven't completed the game.

The advantage goes to Altair if we're comparing feats.

Round 3: h2h only no weapons. Ezio from the brotherhood. To death. Takes place in the frontier. Provide reason.

You can't really tell. There are no H2H feats for anyone. Altair fought some angry middling angry people. Ezio fought adulterers and an old Pope. Connor... no idea. You can say that Connor has the advantage as a woodsman but Altair went to Mongolia to kill Ghengis Khan. Ezio himself traveled through three continents alone through his life too. We see Connor onscreen in the wilderness which doesn't mean that Altair nor Ezio weren't in the wilderness a lot either.

#24 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan:

I agree with most of your assessment for R1 and R2, but for R1 you must remember that all of the assassins (Altair, Ezio, Conner), are immune to the apple's affects. Altair may know more about the apple, and may be more familiar with its uses, but he would have no power over them using any P.O.E.

If each of them gets a gun in R1, lets just give Altair the gun he created, the one that Ezio had recreated, then Conner wins as he is faster on the draw with his more modern firearm. To add to that, he gets 2 consecutive shots with each reload and can hold a multidue of bullets which gives him a distinct advantage.

To add to R3, Conner is put in a few situations during his story where he is left with no weapons and is able to perservere. He also is the assassin with the best durability feats as he's been impaled and still treked across country to kill his prey. Overall, Conner is the best brawler of the bunch as proven by feats, and that is before you take into account the evironment which gives Conner a huge advantage.

Somebody put it to me like this: Altair is the most knowledgable, hence he is the Mentor; Ezio is the most experienced and worldly, therefore the Prophet; and Conner has the most natural talent and strength, as he is the Gaurdian.

Conner is the most inexperineced of the bunch, but I still would give him 2 of the 3 rounds, with Altair edging out the others in R2.

#25 Posted by MonsterStomp (16160 posts) - - Show Bio

If this were Ezio from Revelations, he has all rounds. Dispite Altair having the Apple, all three assassin's are immune to its effects. Plus Ezio and Connor had an apple too.

#26 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp said:

If this were Ezio from Revelations, he has all rounds. Dispite Altair having the Apple, all three assassin's are immune to its effects. Plus Ezio and Connor had an apple too.

Conner never had an apple, but that is a moot point.

Even Rev Ezio in straight up hand to hand would have a tough time with Conner. Conner is no slouch by any respects. Even in cqc weapons combat it would be a tough call, though I'd give Ezio the edge.

#27 Edited by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Ezio definitely is NOT immune to the Apple. In Revelations he loses health when he uses it. Altair gets staggered by the Apple but does not lose health. Also remember the Rodrigo/Ezio fight where Rodrigo beat Ezio because Ezio was knocked to the ground by the Staff, another piece of Eden.

I also contest that Ezio is the most experienced. Altair has been an Assassin since his teens. He was a feared Master Assassin by the time Ezio was still training up his skills. Just because most of his Assassin career was spent off screen doesn't mean that those years don't exist. The fact remains that the best feat for either of these three belongs to Altair. The Robert assassination is the most impressive feat itself and he did it without any of the gadgets the other two enjoy.

#28 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

Ezio

#29 Posted by Gotham's Dark Knight (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan:

I do believe all the Assassin's can be effect by the P.O.E. Altair was bound when he face Al Mualim, as well as Ezio when he face Rodrigo. However, if we are counting piece of Edens in the 1st round, then you have to give Ezio a apple, as well as Conner. Both Altair, Ezio, and Connor had different apples. Also, you not giving Connor his due. Combat wise, Conner can out-match the two Assassin's. He is the only one to be able to Dual-wield weapons. Ubisoft said that because he is Ambidextrous.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@MonsterStomp said:

Conner never had an apple, but that is a moot point.

Wrong. Conner's tribe did have a Apple.

#30 Posted by TheBlackLantern (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Altair

Round 2: Altair

I believe Altair to be the most skilled and knowledgeable of the assassins with the most experience therefore I think he takes the first two rounds.

Round 3: Connor

Connor will win the H2H fight due to him having a better fighting style and being the most muscular of the three, with Ezio coming in a close second.

#31 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan said:

Ezio definitely is NOT immune to the Apple. In Revelations he loses health when he uses it. Altair gets staggered by the Apple but does not lose health. Also remember the Rodrigo/Ezio fight where Rodrigo beat Ezio because Ezio was knocked to the ground by the Staff, another piece of Eden.

I also contest that Ezio is the most experienced. Altair has been an Assassin since his teens. He was a feared Master Assassin by the time Ezio was still training up his skills. Just because most of his Assassin career was spent off screen doesn't mean that those years don't exist. The fact remains that the best feat for either of these three belongs to Altair. The Robert assassination is the most impressive feat itself and he did it without any of the gadgets the other two enjoy.

Ezio, and the rest are immune to all the POE's mind control effects. Loosing health, getting staggered, and whatever other gameplay mechanic that was used in concert with the using the Apple was just that, a game play mechanic. Here are a couple of examples of immunity:

- Al Mualim enslaved the entire order except Atair who he had to fight because he couldn't control him.

- In Revelations when Abas activated the apple and everyone in the village was on their knees except for Atair.

- During Ezio's fight with Rodrigo he activates the staff and EVERYONE in the vadican is brought to their knees except for Ezio.

Also remember that the POE's can be used to create light contructs in order to inflict physical damage. The assassin's can be hurt by those because those are physical attacks. Here are a couple examples of those:

- When Borgeia used the staff and was able to throw Ezio across the room during their fight

- When Ezio created 4 doplegangers to fight Rodrigo.

Lastly, Ezio is the most experienced though he isn't the most knowledgable.

Atair had been trained since his teens, yes, and became a master by age 24, but he also lived and fought in a completely different Era. He fought and trained and that was it, hence why he was able to rank up so quickly. He also became a the Mentor before he was ready, though he did a decent job at it in the begining, but didn't accell at it until the second time around. Atair had taken down a lot of Templars in his day, with his greatest feat being taking down Genghis Kahn, though that happened off screen, and it is completely apropriate to say he was the best in his order in both combat and strategy.

Ezio, on the other hand, became an Assassin at age 17 and he was a capable fighter from the begining (probably due to his father training him in the years before). Ezio didn't get inducted offically into the Assassin order (which at that time was run completely different than the order in Altair's days) until he was 26, but durring the years he was fighting before (alone mind you) he revitalized the Audetorie homestead, took down many templars, and became one of the best, if not the best, Assassin in the Italian Order regardless if he was a part of it. As the years went on, Ezio got better and better with he crowning achievements in combat being taking down Borgia and his entire order, taking down Ceasere, then becoming the Assassin Mentor, like Atiar, and finally taking down the Bizantine Empire. That's not mentioning all the little things he did inbetween. Ezio saw much more combat than Altair did, while Atair studied much more than Ezio did.

All in all, Atair was the brains behind the entire Assassin Order, but Ezio was the reason it flurished and grew to the hieghts it did.

@Gotham's Dark Knight:

They never had an apple.

The sphere Conner's people had was something different, and at the end of the game it desintegrated. You can count that as a POE, that as well as the key, but neither were ever used in combat. The only POE Conner used in combat was the shield thingy that he found on Kidd's island.

Here is the wiki for the POE they had: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Crystal_Balls

#32 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't just claim it's a gameplay mechanic without any basis. As a matter of fact, Rodrigo knocks Ezio to the ground with the staff's power. Therefore you can't claim it's simply a gameplay mechanic when Ezio is affected in crucial plot moments outside of gameplay. Even if you give Ezio his own apple, Altair is clearly more deadly with his. He can kill anyone he wants instantly with his without negative consequences. He also has the control to kill enemies while avoiding killing allies. In Brotherhood, Ezio can easily die using his apple and it's easy to kill the wrong people. This isn't even close.

Moreover you have to remember that the Animus recalls memory. If Desmond is recalling that the apple hurts Ezio whenever he uses it, then there isn't any interpretation necessary on our part. Yes, it's gamplay but the game wraps that up nicely into the story as well. Story and gameplay here are not mutually exclusive.

Ezio's best feat is his assassination of Cesare. He fought through two armies to do so. According to the animus however, he didn't do so unscathed. To get 100% sync you can lose 5 health squares. There are other memories where you Ezio wasn't hit at all so we know that he failed this time to do so. This is a gameplay mechanic that is also a description of historal events.

Compare that with Altair's assassination of Robert. He also fights through two armies. Altair desyncs anytime he gets hit at all meaning he doesn't get hit. The Templars that fought alongside Robert fought through are much better warriors than the typical Borgia guards that Ezio fought. Altair fought Robert and a dozen elite Templars. Ezio fought Cesare and at most 3 other low level Borgia soldiers. Both armies were also alert to Altair whereas most of the time, Ezio's enemies weren't aware he was there. Ezio also had better armor and weapons. In short, Ezio did less than Altair and he was hit a few times. Altair did more than Ezio and with inferior weapons and armor and managed to do so unscathed.

Here's also what you can't ignore. Ezio constantly hires Mercenaries, Thieves, Gypsies or Consorts to help him out. Altair generally does everything by himself. There are any number of memories where Ezio says he needs to recruit some mercenaries to help him fight some enemies. Altair would just do the same thing by himself.

Also Ezio didn't take down the Byzantine Empire.

#33 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan:

1) What are you talking about? Gameplay is gamplay, and cutscenes is cutscenes. In gameplay the characters are affected when they use the POEs, but in cutscenes they aren't.

And just for the record, the apple isn't a skill driven aparatus, it is knowledge based, hence why Altair would be more powerful with it. Also, I never disputed that Borgia knocked Ezio down, I just said he did it with a light contruct and NOT mind control, which Ezio is immune to. Go back and play/watch the fight if you need proof.

2) Say what you will about who Altair and Ezio fought, but the fact of the matter is that Ezio fought through an army who was using siege towers and other projectile weapons while the crusaders that Altair was fighting were not.

3) Ezio using his surrounding goes to what I said about him being more worldy and experienced than the others. It also plays into his character and reinforces that he didn't fight or live by the 3 tenents that Altair did, but rather their ultimate philosophy: Nothing is true; everything is permitted. Beyond that, Altair was a loner in combat who stuck to the shadows and only struck when the opportunity presented itself as he was trained while Ezio did as he pleased.

Also remember that Al Mualim was using Altair for a specific purpose and basically told him he was on his own for those 9 assassinations. Altair's avdenture in AC1 was over a condensed period of time while Ezio's spaned decades, most of which he was by himself, and he killed many more all over Europe.

Really, comparing them on that front is tough because the story circumstances are vast different. They are 2 different characters who did similar things but they had different mind sets and methods.

4) I'll correct myself, Ezio stamped out the templar coruption in the Byzantine Empire, essentially stopping the empires growth.

#34 Edited by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Gameplay is carried out through the animus which is a reflection of memory. The animus follows rules. Ezio gets hit by a dagger he gets hurt in real life. Ezio gets hit by a dagger in an animus memory and he also gets hurt. You can't just conveniently ignore how the Apple hurts Ezio just because it disagrees with you. If Ezio REMEMBERS that the Apple can hurt him with use, then it hurts him with use.

Also the artifacts all function with some level of mind control. How do you think light knocks you down, exactly?

2. The fact of the matter is that Altair fought more skilled opponents when he assassinated Robert than Ezio did when be killed Cesare. The two armies saw Altair coming. Ezio was largely hidden. What do siege towers have to do with anything? The fact also remains that Altair was not hit whereas Ezio suffered damage. In terms of feats, Altair is definitely ahead.

3. Ezio's wordliness advantage is disputable. I'm not sure what this is particularly answering but I assume it's for Ezio's penchant for recruiting others in his missions. Regardless, I have nothing against it. You cannot deny however that Altair has accomplished more alone than Ezio. There are no mercenaries for Ezio to hire in this battle.

4. Ezio killed Byzantine Templars and was pretty instrumental in a lot of its history. I was just disputing your wording which implied he took on an entire empire by himself.

#35 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan:

1) Ezio being staggard in game is trumped by Ezio not being phased in cutscene, but if you want to split hairs about the animus and what was depicted in game we can. What is the life, or rather sync, meter for in the animus? Health? Stamina? Mental stability? Armor? A lot can be infered when looking at "life" in the animus. So what was being affected truly? This is memory right? Why wouldn't it be mental stability or concentration level?

And you are asking what a light construct is? It is a hologram. In this case, a hologram that is physical and can interact with the world. Have you seen Star Trek?

2) Like I said, we can debate the skill of the opponents all day long, but at the end of the day it'll still all up in the air. And what do siege towers have to do with anything? Throughout that entire sequence there were explosions and fires and all types of other things going on. If you want to debate Ezio getting hurt while all that stuff was going on, and compare that to Altair not getting hurt while fighting templars straight up, then I'd say you have the deck stacked against Ezio.

3) Actually I can. While Altair was in hiding, Ezio was still fighting and accomplishing things on the battle field. While in Altair's prime he was a beast and could probably contend with Conner in a cage, out in the open he is vulnerable where Ezio shines.

4) OK, but if we are spliting hairs with Ezio then the same has to be done with Altair. Altair is credited with taking down one man, Genghis Kahn, off panel; why would taking out one man trump taking down the Templar order in 2 countries (even if he did take damage)?

#36 Edited by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

1. In the original game you lose sync anytime you do something altair clearly doesn't remember. Killing civilians, going to locked areas or taking damage desyncs desmond from the memory. In Ezio's games, taking damage actually deals damage. If you kill too many civilians you desync as well so there's a clear story difference between the two. Desyncing is going outside the memory. Taking damage is getting hurt in the memory. Both are clearly defined. Healing medicine heals damage not sync bar, for example. Conversely, when Altair gets stabbed by Mualim or when Ezio gets knocked out you get damaged but do not lose sync.

The artifacts of Eden control bodies and minds of humanity. That's it. There is no light construct. it's all illusion.

2. Ezio is actually knocked out by canon fire before the start of the memory sequence. He suffers damage AFTER the cannon shot and he isn't hit by any canon fire for the remainder of the memory. Avoiding cannon fire isn't an issue like you're implying. Moreover you ignore how both armies saw Altair coming whereas Ezio could get by relatively unseen. Finally Altair avoiding getting damaged while dressed in a plain Robe. Ezio had legendary armor, guns, crossbows, bombs and Altair's sword. Ezio clearly had the advantage and it's not close.

3. Altair was already 63 years old when he went into hiding. Ezio by contrast retired when he was 52. Altair started his Assassin training earlier and went into hiding at an older age than Ezio retired. The experience clearly sides with Altair. Heck after his banishment, Altair was still searching the Apple for knowledge and then returned to be grandmaster. Even as a ridiculously old man he was easily disarming full Assassins.

4. This isn't a race to see who can take down Templar faster. That isn't relevant. Even then Altair can be credited with more considering he invented the current Assassin organization and allowed it to spread. I'm comparing battles because it shows that Altair is more skilled which is relevant in a topic discussing who would win in a fight. To be clear, I'm referring to the Robert assassination not the Ghengis Khan one.

#37 Posted by MonsterStomp (16160 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan said:

1. In the original game you lose sync anytime you do something altair clearly doesn't remember. Killing civilians, going to locked areas or taking damage desyncs desmond from the memory. In Ezio's games, taking damage actually deals damage. If you kill too many civilians you desync as well so there's a clear story difference between the two. Desyncing is going outside the memory. Taking damage is getting hurt in the memory. Both are clearly defined. Healing medicine heals damage not sync bar, for example. Conversely, when Altair gets stabbed by Mualim or when Ezio gets knocked out you get damaged but do not lose sync.

The artifacts of Eden control bodies and minds of humanity. That's it. There is no light construct. it's all illusion.

2. Ezio is actually knocked out by canon fire before the start of the memory sequence. He suffers damage AFTER the cannon shot and he isn't hit by any canon fire for the remainder of the memory. Avoiding cannon fire isn't an issue like you're implying. Moreover you ignore how both armies saw Altair coming whereas Ezio could get by relatively unseen. Finally Altair avoiding getting damaged while dressed in a plain Robe. Ezio had legendary armor, guns, crossbows, bombs and Altair's sword. Ezio clearly had the advantage and it's not close.

3. Altair was already 63 years old when he went into hiding. Ezio by contrast retired when he was 52. Altair started his Assassin training earlier and went into hiding at an older age than Ezio retired. The experience clearly sides with Altair. Heck after his banishment, Altair was still searching the Apple for knowledge and then returned to be grandmaster. Even as a ridiculously old man he was easily disarming full Assassins.

4. This isn't a race to see who can take down Templar faster. That isn't relevant. Even then Altair can be credited with more considering he invented the current Assassin organization and allowed it to spread. I'm comparing battles because it shows that Altair is more skilled which is relevant in a topic discussing who would win in a fight. To be clear, I'm referring to the Robert assassination not the Ghengis Khan one.

1. That is true to an extent. Altair wasn't harmed in combat during the game, not his entire life. But it is false about Ezio. You say Altair wasn't touched in combat in pure robes, leading me to believe no real damage was dealt to his true self. Every time Ezio was hurt it was inflicted armour damage. Every time Ezio's armour durability was degraded after being hit was the armor alone. The only times Ezio was truely harmed was from unexpected gunshot fire or being thrown off a cliff. Altair was never thrown off a cliff or was fired upon. Not to mention when Ezio was completly fine at the start of brotherhood after he was stabbed by Rodrigo, "My armour blunted hit attack". Or when Ezio was hit by canonball ricochet and got back up some time after, making his way through 2 armies and defeating Cesare, same thing happened when he had a bad arm after being shot in brotherhood, he could fight like he was speaking italian. Connor was hit by canonball ricochet and couldn't open into conflict because he was wasted. He barely beat Haytham. But then again, Altair was never attacked by a canonball attack. Altair wasn't in the era of Ezio and Connor which I believe were was more ruthless times in terms of war.

2. Each assassin had a purpose. Altair took years upon years to complete his purpose. He had to reclaim order control and set up guilds across the world via contacts. He went into exile when he was 63 and returned at 92. 29 years of hiding? Ezio never hid, he completed his purpose and went on with his life. Altair was stupid enough to live 2 lives and that got him a dead wife and dead son and dead best friend (Malik). Ezio liberated italy and constantinople from templar influence and while doing so, sent counless assassin's across the world and liberated many other countries. He also trained 6? assassin's to the master status. Ezio did much more in the life he was given. Altair wasted 29 years, created a gun and shot Abas. Who does that?

#38 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp said:

@MisterGuyMan said:

1. In the original game you lose sync anytime you do something altair clearly doesn't remember. Killing civilians, going to locked areas or taking damage desyncs desmond from the memory. In Ezio's games, taking damage actually deals damage. If you kill too many civilians you desync as well so there's a clear story difference between the two. Desyncing is going outside the memory. Taking damage is getting hurt in the memory. Both are clearly defined. Healing medicine heals damage not sync bar, for example. Conversely, when Altair gets stabbed by Mualim or when Ezio gets knocked out you get damaged but do not lose sync.

The artifacts of Eden control bodies and minds of humanity. That's it. There is no light construct. it's all illusion.

2. Ezio is actually knocked out by canon fire before the start of the memory sequence. He suffers damage AFTER the cannon shot and he isn't hit by any canon fire for the remainder of the memory. Avoiding cannon fire isn't an issue like you're implying. Moreover you ignore how both armies saw Altair coming whereas Ezio could get by relatively unseen. Finally Altair avoiding getting damaged while dressed in a plain Robe. Ezio had legendary armor, guns, crossbows, bombs and Altair's sword. Ezio clearly had the advantage and it's not close.

3. Altair was already 63 years old when he went into hiding. Ezio by contrast retired when he was 52. Altair started his Assassin training earlier and went into hiding at an older age than Ezio retired. The experience clearly sides with Altair. Heck after his banishment, Altair was still searching the Apple for knowledge and then returned to be grandmaster. Even as a ridiculously old man he was easily disarming full Assassins.

4. This isn't a race to see who can take down Templar faster. That isn't relevant. Even then Altair can be credited with more considering he invented the current Assassin organization and allowed it to spread. I'm comparing battles because it shows that Altair is more skilled which is relevant in a topic discussing who would win in a fight. To be clear, I'm referring to the Robert assassination not the Ghengis Khan one.

1. That is true to an extent. Altair wasn't harmed in combat during the game, not his entire life. But it is false about Ezio. You say Altair wasn't touched in combat in pure robes, leading me to believe no real damage was dealt to his true self. Every time Ezio was hurt it was inflicted armour damage. Every time Ezio's armour durability was degraded after being hit was the armor alone. The only times Ezio was truely harmed was from unexpected gunshot fire or being thrown off a cliff. Altair was never thrown off a cliff or was fired upon. Not to mention when Ezio was completly fine at the start of brotherhood after he was stabbed by Rodrigo, "My armour blunted hit attack". Or when Ezio was hit by canonball ricochet and got back up some time after, making his way through 2 armies and defeating Cesare, same thing happened when he had a bad arm after being shot in brotherhood, he could fight like he was speaking italian. Connor was hit by canonball ricochet and couldn't open into conflict because he was wasted. He barely beat Haytham. But then again, Altair was never attacked by a canonball attack. Altair wasn't in the era of Ezio and Connor which I believe were was more ruthless times in terms of war.

2. Each assassin had a purpose. Altair took years upon years to complete his purpose. He had to reclaim order control and set up guilds across the world via contacts. He went into exile when he was 63 and returned at 92. 29 years of hiding? Ezio never hid, he completed his purpose and went on with his life. Altair was stupid enough to live 2 lives and that got him a dead wife and dead son and dead best friend (Malik). Ezio liberated italy and constantinople from templar influence and while doing so, sent counless assassin's across the world and liberated many other countries. He also trained 6? assassin's to the master status. Ezio did much more in the life he was given. Altair wasted 29 years, created a gun and shot Abas. Who does that?

#1) I stand by what I said. The meter in the Ezio series of games stood for a multitude of things and once the meter hit zero you didn't die, you de-synced.

#2/3) While I don't agree with a lot of what @MonsterStomp said bout Altair in #2, I will add that in my earlier post I wasn't just mainly talking about Altair's studies after he went into hiding in his 60's, Altair began studying the apple right after he liberated Cyprus at about age 30 when he began his tenure as Mentor. The proof of this is shown in the fact that it was during this time before he left to fight Kahn, and thus before he was exiled, that he created his ultimate armor set. Though I'm sure he kept his skills sharp during the time after Cyprus, he didn't actually go back out into the field until he was about 53 to go fight Genghis Kahn (more than 20 years later).

Also, at that time he also took with him his wife, an accomplished former Templar, his son, who I'm sure he had trained since birth, and met up with another famous assassin of the time, Qulan Gal, and his sect of assassins. They all played their part in taking down Kahn overall, and it's worth noting that all this took place over the course of 11 years.

Ezio, by comparision, was 17 when AC2 began, and he had also been training before that point, and he was 39 by the end of that game. By the end of Brotherhood Ezio was 48 years old and 3 years after that is when he left for Masyf; 2 years later is when he arrived. After 36 years of continous in the field fighting, that is when he retired. Like I said before, Ezio had been fighting in the field a lot longer than Altair had been.

To add, during the chase for Cesare during Brotherhood, the guards were actively looking Ezio on Cesare's comand, and there were plenty of times during that sequence where Ezio was forced to fight upwards of 10 at a time or he could progress. Ezio had just as tough a time as Altair did, if not more.

And just for the record, Altair's robes at that time of the Crusades weren't simple cloth robes, he was wearing light armor similar to Ezio in AC2's early parts: layered cloth, thick leather, with probably some metal in there somewhere. Also, Ezio's armor choice in later games is completely up in the air since it was all player choice in that department. The Armor that he begins with in each game is most likely the Armor he fought most in so just because he has memories of recoverying Altair's super amor doesn't mean he wore it, let alone wore it at key moments in his life.

#4) I know you've been talking about the time of the Crusades when talking about Altair's skill, but the point still stands that the lore says he took down one guy in his 50's, while Rev shows that Ezio took down plenty more in his 50's.

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#39 Posted by RetardedMonkey (127 posts) - - Show Bio

First round: Connor

Second round: Altair

Third round: Connor

#40 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

@AverageMan said:

Round 1 Connor

Round 2 Altair

Round 3 Ezio

#41 Edited by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

1. My point is that Altair was able to evade all that damage without any aid of armor. We don't even have to talk about basic differences between the two eras in canon fire. The fact remains that Ezio took damage, or some hits if you want to argue that, while fighting his opponents whereas Ezio did not. Take out the canon fire that knocked him out. He took 5 damage while fighting his way through the armies and kill Cesare. No canon fire was involved and all the damage was fight the normal fighting that is like Altair.

2. If you followed the Revelations plot line, it was made clear that just killing Abbas would have splintered the Assassin's Order beyond repair. Altair waited that long because at that point Abbas' abuse was made so obvious that Altair could retake the Order without division. The Order of Altair's time was highly centralized. You think he should have just killed Abbas immediately. Well if he did that then he starts an Assassin Civil war.

#42 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

1. I'm not sure how standing by what you say accomplishes anything. the animus clearly differentiated between damage and sync regardless of wether you agree or not. it even says 'take medicine to recover health' in one of the memories.

2. We have no idea when the armor was created by Altair. Also in Brotherhood Ezio had the armor of Brutus when he fought Cesare. It doesn't matter what the player does or in what order. Since Cesare's assassination is the last memory, we know that Ezio must have accomplished all the other ones prior which means he had to have the armor.

Finally, it's impossible for Altair to remain undectected since his path has to goes straight trought two armies. Ezio's path goes through rooftops past unsuspecting guards. I'm not making any of my claims up.

#43 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1494 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123 said:

Batman.

#44 Posted by Park (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

Ezio should win all three based on his ability to throw sand and stagger his opponents. Also, the crossbow seemed quicker on the draw.

#45 Posted by MonsterStomp (16160 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan: Altair wasn't harmed by his apple because he studied its secrets for 29 years or so. He got the blueprints for the armour and gun from that apple. He also used the apple to prolong his life. Read the last Codex. Though he didn't mention it he certainly hinted at it. After all he couldn't mention it, he was a role model for the assassin's even to the modern era. Sure Ezio took damage. Though I wouldn't underthink it. The moments in his life where he was seen limping in pain and agony is the only time where he was truely hurt. I only recall two moments in his life. 1: Brotherhood beging unexpectedly shot in the left shoulder. 2. Revelations being thrown off a cliff. I think you're confusing armour damage with synch damage. Ezio sustained no synch damage. With the chase for Cesare, the 100% synch is not to fall below 5 bars of damage. I consider that armour damage alone. Sure he got a few cuts. Altair didn't remain untouchable for his entire life either.

Niether Altair, Ezio or Connor took synch damage. Maybe Altair wasn't wearing armour, making him lighter and faster at that time, makes dodging attacks easier don't you think? Ezio's 100% synch armour in Brotherhood looks rediculously heavier, I'd say its fair for him to recieve a few scratches.

#46 Edited by MFrenzy11 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Has anyone even beaten AC 3 yet to even know the answer?

i hv connor superior technology muskets, early rifles round 1, 2 ehh umm ezio...BARELY actually connor cuz he can take off his hidden blade adding another fighting styleand if its ezio from bhood he takes round 3

#47 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp:

First when Mualim first tried to control Altair with the Apple, he says at the end of the game that Altair was immune. Secondly even if Altair was immune because of experience, the fact remains that Ezio doesn't have anywhere near as much experience with the Apple nor can we just assume he's immune. Old man Altair with the Apple stomps both Ezio and Connor.

Also, you're confusing terms. Sync damage is specifically for Desmond in the Animus. He suffers sync damage anytime he does something in the Animus that goes outside the memory. Ezio's damage from the Cesare memory is the exact opposite. Ezio clearly remembers that he took some damage. Saying that Ezio remembers that he took Sync damage would make no sense. In the memory he received some damage. Therefore when Desmond relives the memory, the animus tells Desmond that he can suffer that much damage for full sync. To be clear, killing civilians decreases sync. The 5 damage requirement is the opposite and actually increases sync. Two different things.

Finally the Armor of Brutus is both incredibly strong and incredibly light. It does not hinder movement. There is no disadvantage for Ezio merely because he's wearing the armor of Brutus. Altair evading all the attacks in his last few memories shows his skill. The damage that Ezio took trying to kill Cesare shows that he isn't as skilled. Now I know Altair wasn't perfect but we have to compare feats here.

#48 Posted by MonsterStomp (16160 posts) - - Show Bio

@MisterGuyMan said:

@MonsterStomp:

First when Mualim first tried to control Altair with the Apple, he says at the end of the game that Altair was immune. Secondly even if Altair was immune because of experience, the fact remains that Ezio doesn't have anywhere near as much experience with the Apple nor can we just assume he's immune. Old man Altair with the Apple stomps both Ezio and Connor.

Also, you're confusing terms. Sync damage is specifically for Desmond in the Animus. He suffers sync damage anytime he does something in the Animus that goes outside the memory. Ezio's damage from the Cesare memory is the exact opposite. Ezio clearly remembers that he took some damage. Saying that Ezio remembers that he took Sync damage would make no sense. In the memory he received some damage. Therefore when Desmond relives the memory, the animus tells Desmond that he can suffer that much damage for full sync. To be clear, killing civilians decreases sync. The 5 damage requirement is the opposite and actually increases sync. Two different things.

Finally the Armor of Brutus is both incredibly strong and incredibly light. It does not hinder movement. There is no disadvantage for Ezio merely because he's wearing the armor of Brutus. Altair evading all the attacks in his last few memories shows his skill. The damage that Ezio took trying to kill Cesare shows that he isn't as skilled. Now I know Altair wasn't perfect but we have to compare feats here.

First. Altair, Ezio, and Connor are immune to the mind controlling effects of the Apple. Al Mualim couldn't control Altair's mind but he could put him in a hold, much like how Rodrigo couldnt take Ezio's mind but could put him in a hold. So no. Even Altair with the mastery of the apple wouldn't kill Ezio or Connor. The only reason Ezio was harmed by his apple was because of an overuse of its powers. Ezio never studied the apple for 29 years.

I agree with your second point. Ezio did get hit a few times. But so did Altair. We can't naturally assume that Altair is untouchable in combat. That only works for his journey in hunting the 9 templars. Unless there are canon feats in the books stating Altair was undoubtedly untouchable, which there isn't IIRC. If you play as Altair in Revelations, his health bar is like Ezio's. They can't be synch bars, which kind of proves my point that Altair was hit at some point.

I'll take the 3rd point. Still might need convincing.

#49 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

The Apple is nothing more than mind control. If you rewatch the Mualim fight, Altair immediately gets close to desyncing so the entire memory is suspect. My personal interpretation is that the entire fight was in his mind since after each sequence Altair is in the same spot. Anyway, I'm not arguing that Altair use compulsion. I'm talking about that super move he uses when he escorts the Polos. He uses the apple and an army of phantom Assassins fall from the sky and kills every enemy while leaving all allies. That level of power and control is simply unbeatable in this fight.

Like I said, Altair isn't untouchable but at his best, he's better than Ezio. We're going by feats to see who's more skilled and the absolute best feat belongs to Altair. In Revelations, oddly enough Altair's memories use Sync bars and not health bars. In the memory "Mentor's Wake" the requirement reads "Do not like more than 3 Sync" If you want to really read into that Altair himself wasn't touched since any damage forces Ezio, who's just reliving the memory, to lose sync. Ezio lose 3 sync bars since the Animus is telling Desmond that it's ok to lose that much to complete the memory. Never thought about that but it makes sense.

#50 Posted by Kellar21 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Connor takes 3 he seems to be stronger and more agile,2 is debatable because both Altair and Ezio had those advanced material armors that couldn't be pierced even by today's weapons,though Connor does have a ring(shard of eden) which makes him immune to bullets(it is a Ancient Civilization Personal Shield),it does iget balanced to have a chance to work, so you don't run around laughing at a squad firing his muskets at you in vain.(They should make the Guards comment on the fact that an energy field appears and deflects their bullets)

Also it can be debated that Altair also made an idestructible sword.(His sword was also made with info form the Piece of Eden,right?)So he's got an advantage on Melee weapons and armor,Ezio has many weapons from his 3 games, and also indestrectible armor,so Connor would have to aim for their exposed parts,against opponents who have more experience than him in fighting,that or he headshots them in 1.