#1 Posted by brandonbrown65 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

i imagine the shadow dragons take this battle very easy but i wouldnt cut the tailed beast out so soon

#2 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

Tailed Beast are nowhere near planet-busting level. This is a huge mismatch.

#3 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise: Actually Shadow Dragons were weak af, there the main reason why GT is downplayed and for good reason too. The biggest threats are Omega Shenron and Nova, and i think only one of those two showed planet busting capabilities.

#4 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soothing_Sounds: Well, yeah. But even comparably weak DB characters (Roshi, Child Goku, Child Krillin) often demonstrate near FAL reaction time and movement, plus, to beat a deadhorse, planetbusting power. The strongest of the Bijuu, Kurama levels mountains. Didn't he get outmatched in combat speed by Minato?

#5 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise: Near FAL speed perhaps, but the DB characters never showed planet-busting power. Even King Piccolo only showed moon-busting capabilities. The Shadow Dragons (besides maybe Nova and Omega) didn't even show that. You're right though, they're essentially low ranked DB characters. Getting out-matched in speed by Minato is plausible (that was a bit back in the manga right?) Of course Minato has extreme speed, FAL i'm not sure about, but he's probably only so far below DB characters.

#6 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Shadow Dragons... stomp

#7 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soothing_Sounds: The Earth is only about three or four times larger than the moon, and accounting for the massive distance traveled I'd put the feats on similar scales

#8 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise: Possible, even then, i don't actually think the Shadow Dragons did something on a similar level. I'm not stating who wins, just that Shadow Dragons aren't winning this with ease because how nerfed everyone was and that the Bijuu outnumber them.

#9 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

Shadow Dragons... stomp

This. Literally this.

They can grant almost any wish and what makes you think they can't grant wishes to make the tailed beasts non-existent.

Omega Shenron solos like the dragon beast boss he is! :D

Vouile

#10 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@Soothing_Sounds: The Earth is only about three or four times larger than the moon, and accounting for the massive distance traveled I'd put the feats on similar scales

Counting total mass though, the Earth is 83 times as dense as the moon.

That being said, saying that the Shadow Dragons can't bust planets is just silly. Saiyan saga Vegeta was a planet buster with a power level of only 18k. That's like a flea to them. The Shadow Dragons were the strongest villains in the entire Dragon Ball series. Even Haze Shenron, the weakest of the Shadow Dragons, still wasn't weak enough to be one shotted by base form Goku. That alone proves he's stronger than Super Perfect Cell, who was one shotted by Pikkon.

This stuff isn't rocket surgery.

#11 Edited by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

This stuff isn't rocket surgery.

lol I'm going to start using that. But yeah, even the stretchy Sheron who's name I can't recall tanked a kameha wave at 10x strength on elasticity alone. Regular Kamehameha>Tailed Beast Ball

@Vouile said:

They can grant almost any wish and what makes you think they can't grant wishes to make the tailed beasts non-existent.

*PAUSE* Uhm, what? Unless I missed something, they were never said to grant wishes. Also: pure, unadulterated DBZ knowledge should tell you that it is not possible to grant a wish if the reciever of said wish does not the action to occur. Its mentioned when Krillin had the idea to wish death toward Vegeta and Nappa, and was promptly shot down. And again post-Cell Saga when Goku chooses to remain in Otherworld, the Z-Fighters were unable to complete the wish because Goku didn't want to be revived.

#12 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

*PAUSE* Uhm, what? Unless I missed something, they were never said to grant wishes. Also: pure, unadulterated DBZ knowledge should tell you that it is not possible to grant a wish if the reciever of said wish does not the action to occur. Its mentioned when Krillin had the idea to wish death toward Vegeta and Nappa, and was promptly shot down. And again post-Cell Saga when Goku chooses to remain in Otherworld, the Z-Fighters were unable to complete the wish because Goku didn't want to be revived.

Lol' PICTURE NEEDED. xD

True, sorry... XP, long time from watching Dragon Ball Z.

Vouile

#13 Posted by nickzambuto (13805 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@Soothing_Sounds: Well, yeah. But even comparably weak DB characters (Roshi, Child Goku, Child Krillin) often demonstrate near FAL reaction time and movement, plus, to beat a deadhorse, planetbusting power. The strongest of the Bijuu, Kurama levels mountains. Didn't he get outmatched in combat speed by Minato?

FAL?

#14 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (1718 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

#15 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Fast as light, maybe not faster than

#16 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Omega Shenron solos. He took down SS4 Goku and Vegeta with ease.

#17 Edited by girugamesh (439 posts) - - Show Bio

@brandonbrown65 said:

i imagine the shadow dragons take this battle very easy but i wouldnt cut the tailed beast out so soon

Really? I would.

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@KnightRise: Actually Shadow Dragons were weak af, there the main reason why GT is downplayed and for good reason too. The biggest threats are Omega Shenron and Nova, and i think only one of those two showed planet busting capabilities.

This.

All the same, Syn, Nova, possibly Ice and the one who attacks with electricity could solo here (Ice due to a massive speed advantage, and the other because he could tank and absorb any of the tailed beasts' attacks).

#18 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

#19 Posted by nickzambuto (13805 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

As someone who never bothered with GT, people around here seem to claim that SS4 Goku had trouble holding up a building, and was cut by glass in base form.

Conversely, Pre-Super Saiyan Goku was smashing mountains with his bare fists just to get them out of the way, and tanking planet busting attacks with ease.

#20 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

As someone who never bothered with GT, people around here seem to claim that SS4 Goku had trouble holding up a building, and was cut by glass in base form.

Conversely, Pre-Super Saiyan Goku was smashing mountains with his bare fists just to get them out of the way, and tanking planet busting attacks with ease.

Well, the building thing is understandable somewhat. Goku's strength level changes whenever he wants via power level suppression, so if he's not currently powered up, it means little. And I'm not familiar with Goku getting cut by glass, and last time I asked someone when it happens, nobody could cite a source. So until that's proven to actually exist, I'm gonna ignore it.

In fact, I'm not familiar with the building scene either. If someone could so much as give me an episode number I'd look them both up, and see what's going on. At worst, it would be something not consistent with the rest of GT, at best, other people have overlooked something obvious like Goku having no ki aura. Like I said, I'd have to look it up. Either way, Goku has a history of getting hurt by little things, and having no issues tanking big things. The infamous scene with Krillin and the rock, or when he smacks his head into Baba's crystal ball in the Buu saga to use a couple of examples.

#21 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

#22 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

#23 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

#24 Posted by nickzambuto (13805 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

There are two Dragon Ball timelines.

1) Anime

2) Manga

Anime cannon includes all filler, GT, and everything else that was shown in the anime.

Manga canon, is the exact same thing, everything that was shown in the manga, and nothing more.

That's how I see it at least. Like how Justice League Unlimited is a different canon to Justice League comics.

#25 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

#26 Posted by SpeedForceSpider (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch. The Shadow Dragons curbstomp.

#27 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

There are two Dragon Ball timelines.

1) Anime

2) Manga

Anime cannon includes all filler, GT, and everything else that was shown in the anime.

Manga canon, is the exact same thing, everything that was shown in the manga, and nothing more.

That's how I see it at least. Like how Justice League Unlimited is a different canon to Justice League comics.

The first would be true except the fact that DB kai would contradict that statement since it follows the manga more closely and removed all of the filler from the original but yes you're right in a way though. With that being said GT would be said to exist in an alternate universe(or something) since it doesn't have a manga that it was based upon.

#28 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

#29 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

He did some interviews for the Daizenshuus, which is where he said he hated interviews lol.

And I hate to be that guy, but prove it. I am 110% sure Toriyama has never made such a declaration about the Bardock movie. I will give you the powers of SSJ25 Ultimate Shenron Master Chief if you can find me a legit source for that.

#30 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

He did some interviews for the Daizenshuus, which is where he said he hated interviews lol.

And I hate to be that guy, but prove it. I am 110% sure Toriyama has never made such a declaration about the Bardock movie. I will give you the powers of SSJ25 Ultimate Shenron Master Chief if you can find me a legit source for that.

Lol and yes AT never made any declariton of the Episode of Bardock movie canon but it was made by Naho Oishi though so you were right on that part

#31 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

He did some interviews for the Daizenshuus, which is where he said he hated interviews lol.

And I hate to be that guy, but prove it. I am 110% sure Toriyama has never made such a declaration about the Bardock movie. I will give you the powers of SSJ25 Ultimate Shenron Master Chief if you can find me a legit source for that.

Lol and yes AT never made any declariton of the Episode of Bardock movie canon but it was made by Naho Oishi though so you were right on that part

Can you find me a legit source for the Ooishi Naho quote? I'm still interested.

#32 Edited by redbird3rdboywonder (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

He did some interviews for the Daizenshuus, which is where he said he hated interviews lol.

And I hate to be that guy, but prove it. I am 110% sure Toriyama has never made such a declaration about the Bardock movie. I will give you the powers of SSJ25 Ultimate Shenron Master Chief if you can find me a legit source for that.

Lol and yes AT never made any declariton of the Episode of Bardock movie canon but it was made by Naho Oishi though so you were right on that part

Can you find me a legit source for the Ooishi Naho quote? I'm still interested.

Yeah here's the link where it states that she's the author of it, it was made as a sequel to the original Bardock movie

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball_episode_of_bardock/

#33 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Laurcus said:

@Soothing_Sounds said:

@Laurcus: They never did anything on a planetary level until Omega Shenron. TBH they never did anything on a continent wide level until Omega. DBGT isn't considered canon to the DBU, that's why people say that Goku SS4 isn't all that powerful. Just because a shadow dragon survived an attack from Goku in DBGT, doesn't mean that Goku from DBZ wouldn't one-shot him.

@nickzambuto: Fast as Light, i was confused at first too.

That's silly. And I consider DBGT to be canon. Can you provide proof that it's non-canon? Akira Toriyama seems to approve, I don't see why we have to be such tight assess about it.

And canon or not, that doesn't matter. It's a continuation of DBZ, there's no logical reason to assume that the characters randomly got weaker. That's insanity. I would dare someone to try and provide evidence of that.

The reason it's considered to be non-cannon is because GT was made solely by Toei Animation and not based off an original manga written by Akira and Aikra has neither approved nor denied if it's cannon or not which is what some fans base their opinions off of. However a majority of fans consider GT to be non-cannon simply because they didn't like it or like the fact that it wasn't written by Akira and they consider it an atrocity to the franchise

I am of the opinion that fans don't have the right or the credibility to decide what is and isn't canon. So on matters of canon, things should be taken at face value. So unless there's evidence that it's non-canon, like a statement from Toriyama, I consider it canon. Sort of an innocent until proven guilty approach.

True but then again there's always the question that if Akira does consider GT to be cannon why hasn't he said so yet because he's released other statements stating that other things are cannon like the new Bardock movie

That's a fan created myth. I have searched for such a statement, it does not exist. Toriyama has never commented on matters of canon. In fact, he hates interviews, and he admits he is terrible when it comes to continuity. He says if you have questions about continuity, you should ask Ooishi Naho, as she has more knowledge about DBZ than he ever will.

If he hates interviews then how would you know that he admitted to being terrible when it comes to continuity(just asking)? It's not a fan created myth the new Bardock movie has been declared as being cannon(i forget where I read it though and despite the obvious plotholes it creates) just as the 2013 movie has been declared as being canon but GT to my knowledge has never been declared as being canon(nor non-canon either if you will) which leads fans to believe what they choose to. My take on it is this, if he or she considered Gt to be an official part of the story then why haven't they said anything about it because if one of them did, it would finally silence all of the haters and naysayers

He did some interviews for the Daizenshuus, which is where he said he hated interviews lol.

And I hate to be that guy, but prove it. I am 110% sure Toriyama has never made such a declaration about the Bardock movie. I will give you the powers of SSJ25 Ultimate Shenron Master Chief if you can find me a legit source for that.

Lol and yes AT never made any declariton of the Episode of Bardock movie canon but it was made by Naho Oishi though so you were right on that part

Can you find me a legit source for the Ooishi Naho quote? I'm still interested.

Yeah here's the link where it states that she's the author of it, it was made as a sequel to the original Bardock movie

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball_episode_of_bardock/

That's not what I was asking for. I am well aware she did the manga for Episode of Bardock. I was looking for this supposed quote where she confirms that it's canon.