All-Star Superman vs. Silver Surfer

Red sun radiation, which Surfer can duplicate. "

"All Star Superman "

" @CosmicSpiral:  If Supes doesnt evolve past his own weaknesses explain Kal-kent....Superman Prime 1 million.......I dont know where your getting your info about Kryptonite is not replacing his cells???? Superman himself said when he got shot by Kryptonite by Lois in All stars supes volume 1...(I have the trades) that lois shooting him was a interesting way for him to find out he is immune to green kryptonite radiation....he said it tickles. Explain Kal-kent having no weakness no red sunlight. 

All stars does have a weakness to red sunlight but he is immune to green kryptonite and the black kryptonite didnt have its normal affects on Superman. Normally Black takes away his powers forever. But instead it had more of a red K to a evil extent on him.....but also that Black K came from the underverse it wasnt normal kryptonite. 

All star supes is more powerful than New Earths! O_O; Thats ridiculous. Ignoring feats sunlight gives Superman strrength.....and this Superman tripled his strength....for all purposes you assume its normal Superman but in a different story. Just because new earth has done things like stop the mageddon doesnt mean the power givin to All stars cant do the samething and better.   Surfer gets 1 shoted by a superman whos powers are tripled or more....end of discussion. "

" I don't see any logical explanation of how Silver Surfer will beat All-Star Superman. He cannot exploit any weaknesses on him. All-Star Superman is not affected by Kryptonite. "

" @JediXMan said:

Red sun radiation, which Surfer can duplicate. "

Has Superman not been able to fight successfully under a red sun before? I believe so. "

" @CosmicSpiral:  NO! All Stars is Supes tripled....kryptonite was completely unaffective. Who knows what other defenses his body amped up. Your assuming All Stars supes to have the same weaknesses without amping up  is defenses in all areas....which you must assume it does because his powers are tripled....and sense he can evolve past the kryptonite weakness then he can evolve past other weaknesses as well.

@supermandefender

Supes new force field should be strong enough to keep any attacks Surfer throws at him at bay. I also wanna add...Surfer doesnt travel 500 000 times faster than light without going to hyperspace.....he is entering hyperspace the moment he far exceeds light speed. This was stated in a Silver Surfer comic. For all purposes Superman and Surfer move around the speed of light in battle speed. Flash is faster than both of them.

@supermandefender

Next issue....All stars Supes also developed new powers plus was shown to be immune to transforming into a bizarro version of himself....and it made a copy verison of him instead. So he should resistance to transmutation. All Star supes only needs 1 punch to put this fight to a end....because Superman normally is stronger than Surfer....All Stars is 3 times as strong. By default All stars should win more times than not. "

" @CosmicSpiral:  If Supes doesnt evolve past his own weaknesses explain Kal-kent....Superman Prime 1 million.......I dont know where your getting your info about Kryptonite is not replacing his cells???? Superman himself said when he got shot by Kryptonite by Lois in All stars supes volume 1...(I have the trades) that lois shooting him was a interesting way for him to find out he is immune to green kryptonite radiation....he said it tickles. Explain Kal-kent having no weakness no red sunlight. 

All stars does have a weakness to red sunlight but he is immune to green kryptonite and the black kryptonite didnt have its normal affects on Superman. Normally Black takes away his powers forever. But instead it had more of a red K to a evil extent on him.....but also that Black K came from the underverse it wasnt normal kryptonite. 

All star supes is more powerful than New Earths! O_O; Thats ridiculous. Ignoring feats sunlight gives Superman strrength.....and this Superman tripled his strength....for all purposes you assume its normal Superman but in a different story. Just because new earth has done things like stop the mageddon doesnt mean the power givin to All stars cant do the samething and better.   Surfer gets 1 shoted by a superman whos powers are tripled or more....end of discussion. "

" I don't see any logical explanation of how Silver Surfer will beat All-Star Superman. He cannot exploit any weaknesses on him. All-Star Superman is not affected by Kryptonite. "

Bump.

I'd say Superman.

@logy5000 said:

Bump.

I'd say Superman.

Same

On paper, the only one who should be able to even contend with Surfer is Galactus and other heralds.

And All Star isn't more powerful than continuity Superman. Jeez.

All star

SS wins this.

@Vaeternus said:

@logy5000 said:

Bump.

I'd say Superman.

Same

Supermans physical powers are much greater than SS at a base level. those punches will hurt surfer. SS can control the energies that make supes what he is. i can see Supes wining if he gets the jump. SS can win if he plays smart

@Hyperlight said:

Supermans physical powers are much greater than SS at a base level. those punches will hurt surfer. SS can control the energies that make supes what he is. i can see Supes wining if he gets the jump. SS can win if he plays smart

what could AS Supes do to harm SS? SS is a pure energy being, he has Galaxies Busting energy in his board....

I can't imagine how AS supes survive from a blast that can destroys a galaxy....(I know Supes survived from Supernova, but SS energy is far greater than that)

@GodDamnIronMan: Galaxy Busting? Really???

All-Star Supes doesn't have what it takes to put down SS. Supes doesn't have an answer for SS cosmic awareness, matter manipulation, energy draining, intangibility, astral plane an energy projection. Not to mention strength isn't an issue due to the fact that Norrin can augment his strength to ridiculous levels. SS has also trapped characters in his board an also has the ability to depower opponents.

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub: Well since no real specifics were said we should assume this is in character Silver Surfer, who doesn't even use most of those powers on a regular basis and it is in character for him to hold back. Now I'm not saying that Silver Surfer doesn't win mind you but he's not one to use his more exotic powers like matter manipulation, intangibility, board trapping, or put people in the astral plane in character.

@SHARKBEARAGATOR:

His ability to manipulate energy already placed him to Galaxy-busting level...

he channels the cosmic energy into someone body!!!

@GodDamnIronMan said:

@Hyperlight said:

Supermans physical powers are much greater than SS at a base level. those punches will hurt surfer. SS can control the energies that make supes what he is. i can see Supes wining if he gets the jump. SS can win if he plays smart

what could AS Supes do to harm SS? SS is a pure energy being, he has Galaxies Busting energy in his board....

I can't imagine how AS supes survive from a blast that can destroys a galaxy....(I know Supes survived from Supernova, but SS energy is far greater than that)

im just saying his physical strength is enough to harm him but it wont garauntee the fight. SS is my favorite marvel character so i know he is a beast

@GodDamnIronMan: That was from Silver Surfer Requim I believe while it is impressive that he was capable of doing this ( He was only sustaining world peace for 5 minutes not the galaxy) it is not canon and basically this story is of Norrins final days while its a great story it is not canon making this feat null.

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

SS FTW. Even an amped Supes cannot take down a well executed attack from SS, particularly post annihilation. Ultimately, SS is just way too versitile for Supes, save pehaps 1,000,000[I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here-he's essentally featless]. This is especially true for a bloodlusted SS. I dont think this Supes could take down Prime...but SS can.

BTW, the battle conditions are far too vague.

ALSO, YOU GUYS ARE FORGETTING ABOUT TAKING THE BATTLE TO THE ASTRAL PLANE.

@Malevolent1 said:

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

On topic of telepathy and phasing he's used those powers in character and in combat a handful of times in character he will barely use those powers, heck there is no guarantee he'd use them at all.

@Jeronimo: Yes, because Surfer has a wealth of feats on the astral plane

Supes takes it.He is stronger and faster.

@TheTmac: Like it's going to matter his strength, SS goes intangible and he is still faster than Supes.And let's not forget astral plane.

@GhostRider2: SS is not faster than All Star Supes.logy5000 quote:

"AS Superman was able to fly to Alpha Centauri & back in a few minutes, it takes light 8 years to do so. Therefore he's at least 100,000 times ftl"

@Malevolent1 said:

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

1) Debatable

2) AS Superman showed resistance to telepathy

3) AS Superman is pure energy, not matter

4) He doesn't do that in combat

5) That probably won't be very useful

6) Also debatable

o my i dont know o_O but i'll say SS evan if i rather AS

Kal.

@SHARKBEARAGATOR said:

@Malevolent1 said:

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

On topic of telepathy and phasing he's used those powers in character and in combat a handful of times in character he will barely use those powers, heck there is no guarantee he'd use them at all.

All true...except board rules dictate we are not considering this from the stand point of a comic book. We are debating feats with PIS off, per board rules.

Therefore, All Star Superman, which I have read, is facing a NON pacifist Surfer who is fighting to the best of his ability.

@supermandefender said:

All stars powers are Tripled in strength...speed...durability....and he also has energy blast. He accidently broke atlas arm while arm wrestling and not even trying. He was actually arm wrestling Atlas and Samson. All stars is immune to kryptonite...or atleast he said it only tickled when he was blasted with a kryptonite gun. And who knows how much stronger his other defenses got. Alot of ppl ive seen catagorize all supes characters reguardless of there powerlevel into solar battery and instantly assume Surfer should drain it away. I think Supes improved defenses will help him for the win here. Normal supes is stronger than Surfer.....if you triple his strength and take away weaknesses Surfer is in trouble. IMO.

Your argument is flawed. The only reason is because All Star Superman is not in continunity therefore it falls part. Normally, Id say you were correct but seeing that All Star Supes lifted 200 Quintillion tons or whatever and both Supermans from pre 52 and in the new 52 have planet lifting feats. Well it makes all star supes look weak imo.

Dont take offense by this but lets say your right about kryptonite and who knows if Silver Surfer can actually use it. I mean he does have cosmic awareness so in meeting Superman reguardless of what universe, he would have a fundamental idea of how to reconstruct it perfectly! Reguardless to some debaits ive seen you in, Silver Surfer would not need to find a piece of krytponite in order to study it, it really doesnt matter if he is from another universe or not, and normally id say you are right according to story line with the whole infinite crisis stuff. But the Silver Surfer has cosmic awareness!!!! Let me state that again. HE has cosmic awareness!!!!!! Galactus was born from another universe and survived the previous one. So the cosmic awareness he gains is from a universe from which he does not belong. Right their should be enough to show that Surfers powers are connected to the cosmos reguardless of what cosmos he is in. But hey thats a arguing point and Im really just guessing but so are you!

Even if Surfer cant use krytponite. It doesnt matter. Surfer can drain Supermans solar enegry from within him. Period point blank! Granted, Superman would put up a fight and Surfer will have his hands full. But in the end Surfer should come out on top.

7 out of 10 matches for the surfer.

@logy5000 said:

@Malevolent1 said:

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

1) Debatable

2) AS Superman showed resistance to telepathy

3) AS Superman is pure energy, not matter

4) He doesn't do that in combat

5) That probably won't be very useful

6) Also debatable

1) What feats does All Star Superman have that makes you believe he is faster than the Surfer?

2) Feat please

3) AS Superman became energy in issue twelve of the run. Big deal. Norrin absorbs him like he siphoned away the Hulk's gamma radiation in Hulk 250. Prior to this, he turns him into a statue, the way he did to Quasimodo and Spider-man and Daredevil.

4) Board rules dictate each combatant is doing their best, fighting to capacity. So is your logic that because he has never been shown to phase during combat, he somehow forgets he has this ability during combat? Really?

5) And why would you say that?

6) Cool. Show me the feats that make you believe otherwise.

The only thing I see All Star Superman having over the Surfer is raw, brute strength....he was at least three times stronger than normal. Don't see him ever getting an opportunity to use it since, Norrin is demonstably faster. All Star Superman goes down hard.

EDIT: We are talking Grant Morrison's 12 issue All Star Superman, no?

@Malevolent1 said:

@logy5000 said:

@Malevolent1 said:

Silver Surfer:

1) He is faster

2) He has telepathic powers

3) He has transmutational powers (he has demonstrated this on both inorganic and organic objects)

4) He can phase, making himself untouchable.

5) He can even teleport during combat and has done so.

6) His durability is at least as great as All Star Supes

1) Debatable

2) AS Superman showed resistance to telepathy

3) AS Superman is pure energy, not matter

4) He doesn't do that in combat

5) That probably won't be very useful

6) Also debatable

1) What feats does All Star Superman have that makes you believe he is faster than the Surfer?

2) Feat please

3) AS Superman became energy in issue twelve of the run. Big deal. Norrin absorbs him like he siphoned away the Hulk's gamma radiation in Hulk 250. Prior to this, he turns him into a statue, the way he did to Quasimodo and Spider-man and Daredevil.

4) Board rules dictate each combatant is doing their best, fighting to capacity. So is your logic that because he has never been shown to phase during combat, he somehow forgets he has this ability during combat? Really?

5) And why would you say that?

6) Cool. Show me the feats that make you believe otherwise.

The only thing I see All Star Superman having over the Surfer is raw, brute strength....he was at least three times stronger than normal. Don't see him ever getting an opportunity to use it since, Norrin is demonstably faster. All Star Superman goes down hard.

EDIT: We are talking Grant Morrison's 12 issue All Star Superman, no?

1) Flying 8 light years in a couple minutes.

2) Being unaffected by Kal Kent's telepathy.

3) If his energy state was that unstable, he would've been turned into extra fuel when he was in the sun.

4) Okay, say he does turn intangible. What's he gonna do next?

5) There is NOTHING Silver Surfer can hurt AS Superman with. So what good is teleportation?

6) He was flying through solar system level attacks without slowing down.

Still don't see anything that addresses Surfer's ability to easily produce red solar radiation. And the fact that he'll instantly know to use it 'cause of his cosmic awareness.

@logy5000 said:

1) Flying 8 light years in a couple minutes.

The time was never mentioned, and all we have to show for this speed it this particular panel.

I got to be honest i was paying more attention to panel before that :p

Also thats a purely travel feat, and surfer has much better travel feats than that with access to hyperspace, like travelling light years in seconds.

2) Being unaffected by Kal Kent's telepathy.

Firstly apart from having telepathy powers, Kal Kent has no feats.

Secondly, Superman would have been affected by Kal Kent's telepathy, its not like he resisted it, Krypto distracted him.

3) If his energy state was that unstable, he would've been turned into extra fuel when he was in the sun.

Superman isnt an energy being, he was dying and his entire body was being trasformed into pure energy, its not like Superman can or has shown to be able to control his energy. His powers are based on the sun , Parasite even said he tasted like a sun, and he flew into the sun and died, that doesnt change a physical superman into an energy being.

4) Okay, say he does turn intangible. What's he gonna do next?

Bombard him with a energy surge power enough to destroy a planet, when Bal El and Lola hammered his head on the moon he was downright bleeding, not to mention they were easily hurting him and apart from being an ordinary Kryptonian they have nothing to show they were any more powerful.

All Star Superman 09

Gallery

And he got beat up bad by Jimmy Olsen Doomsday

All Star Superman 04

Gallery

5) There is NOTHING Silver Surfer can hurt AS Superman with. So what good is teleportation?

Silver Surfer has many things that can hurt / kill As Superman:

1. Creating a black hole. You know what happened when he reached Bizzaro world right?

2. Dispersing his molecules.

3. Trap him in his board.

4. Take away his powers

Its just that Silver Surfer is too dumb in comics to NOT use his powers, he does there is little to nothing All Star Superman can do against him.

6) He was flying through solar system level attacks without slowing down.

When ? I certainly dont remember that.

@Killemall: In the movie it showed that Superman had traveled to Alpha Centauri & back during the time that Lois was taking her shower.

AS Superman never died. That was revealed when it was shown that the Unknown Superman was AS Superman 2000 years later.

At the end Superman was flying right through Solaris' blasts. Solaris is more powerful than a sun & a sun has the destructive capacity to decimate a solar system.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: In the movie it showed that Superman had traveled to Alpha Centauri & back during the time that Lois was taking her shower.

Firstly movie is non canon to comics. And that is exactly what happen in the comics as well, she was taking a shower and boom appears Superman with the flower from alpha century. My point was that is purely a travel feat.

AS Superman never died. That was revealed when it was shown that the Unknown Superman was AS Superman 2000 years later.

I really really dont remember that in the comics, was this from a movie as well?

At the end Superman was flying right through Solaris' blasts. Solaris is more powerful than a sun & a sun has the destructive capacity to decimate a solar system.

Superman flew through red sun radiation from solaris because he had the suit to prevent from being harmed. Neither does solaris actually attack the sun nor does he destroy it, nor is he said to be more powerful than the sun. All it says is he intends to take place of the sun, how that will be accomplished is unknown. With that in light, saying his red sun radiation blast was solar system buster seems odd.

@Killemall: If you remember the Unknown Superman, Kal Kent, and the 5-D Superman traveling to AS Superman's time; after they chain the chronovore & go to John Kent's funeral, Unknown Superman takes off his bandages and says: "I had to conceal my identity because that's how I remember it happening." I don't think the 3 future Supermen make an appearance in the movie.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: If you remember the Unknown Superman, Kal Kent, and the 5-D Superman traveling to AS Superman's time; after they chain the chronovore & go to John Kent's funeral, Unknown Superman takes off his bandages and says: "I had to conceal my identity because that's how I remember it happening." I don't think the 3 future Supermen make an appearance in the movie.

Well, I can't really say anything that Killemall hasn't already artfully covered, so I'm essentially stating the same things:

1) I do not see anything in the scans you submitted that indicate All Star Superman is faster than the Surfer. Folks like the Surfer, Zoom II, Wally West and The Runner are in a league all their own when it comes to speed. All Star Superman has shown nothing that is even close to that kind of speed. All Star Superman is essentially a statue when he gets blitzed by the Surfer.

Above, remarks on Surfer having traveled light years in only seconds. Beneath, Surfer blitzes an opponent faster than light. With the Defenders above, Surfer searches the entire planet for Namor. There is no mention of time. Only the time it takes Doctor Strange to speak a sentence and a half. That's about six seconds. That's 196, 000, 000 square miles searched in six seconds (I read the caption; my friend timed me three times, I took the average...), or just over 30 million square miles searched per second. Even if these were LINEAR miles we are talking, this feat would be superliminal. But these are square miles, and obviously, not all in a straight line. Therefore, it is clear that the Surfer can (and has) blitzed opponents at well beyond light speed and that his speed is not limited to just straightline travel.

2) Surfer will automatically know Superman's weakness. I don't know that the Surfer has "cosmic awareness" as some assert (like Mar-vell); Galactus created him with the ability to track just about anyone or anything. This ability allows him to detect living beings, including super beings and their weaknesses and to detect energy signatures even light years away. He may well be the universes greatest tracker.

As Killemall indicated from the scan from All Star Superman, there is no indication that he has telepathic resistance. Maybe you were thinking of Kal Kent?

And I will reassert, I think the only advantage Clark has here is his strength. Silver Surfer takes this fight in a walk.

I think Surfer is more powerful over the long run...but All-Star Superman is powerful enough to end the fight quickly. 6/10 for Superman.

@Malevolent1: @Killemall: Thanos beat Surfer to near death with his bare hands; AS Superman is likely pretty close to Thanos' strength level. Not to mention Thor once beat Surfer & BRB at the same time. Superman is also much faster than Thor & Thanos. So I doubt that this fight is the cakewalk you think it is.

@Malevolent1 said:

@logy50enough said:

@Killemall: If you remember the Unknown Superman, Kal Kent, and the 5-D Superman traveling to AS Superman's time; after they chain the chronovore & go to John Kent's funeral, Unknown Superman takes off his bandages and says: "I had to conceal my identity because that's how I remember it happening." I don't think the 3 future Supermen make an appearance in the movie.

Well, I can't really say anything that Killemall hasn't already artfully covered, so I'm essentially stating the same things:

1) I do not see anything in the scans you submitted that indicate All Star Superman is faster than the Surfer. Folks like the Surfer, Zoom II, Wally West and The Runner are in a league all their own when it comes to speed. All Star Superman has shown nothing that is even close to that kind of speed. All Star Superman is essentially a statue when he gets blitzed by the Surfer.

Above, remarks on Surfer having traveled light years in only seconds. Beneath, Surfer blitzes an opponent faster than light. With the Defenders above, Surfer searches the entire planet for Namor. There is no mention of time. Only the time it takes Doctor Strange to speak a sentence and a half. That's about six seconds. That's 196, 000, 000 square miles searched in six seconds (I read the caption; my friend timed me three times, I took the average...), or just over 30 million square miles searched per second. Even if these were LINEAR miles we are talking, this feat would be superliminal. But these are square miles, and obviously, not all in a straight line. Therefore, it is clear that the Surfer can (and has) blitzed opponents at well beyond light speed and that his speed is not limited to just straightline travel.

2) Surfer will automatically know Superman's weakness. I don't know that the Surfer has "cosmic awareness" as some assert (like Mar-vell); Galactus created him with the ability to track just about anyone or anything. This ability allows him to detect living beings, including super beings and their weaknesses and to detect energy signatures even light years away. He may well be the universes greatest tracker.

As Killemall indicated from the scan from All Star Superman, there is no indication that he has telepathic resistance. Maybe you were thinking of Kal Kent?

And I will reassert, I think the only advantage Clark has here is his strength. Silver Surfer takes this fight in a walk.

All star superman was fast enough to fly to alpha centuri in a second or so

All star superman isn't even that powerful. Surfer solos this one easy.

A fairer fight would be prime 1 million. in which he would stomp surfer into a fine silver dust.

Still SS for obvious reasons

@logy5000 said:

@Malevolent1: @Killemall: Thanos beat Surfer to near death with his bare hands; AS Superman is likely pretty close to Thanos' strength level. Not to mention Thor once beat Surfer & BRB at the same time. Superman is also much faster than Thor & Thanos. So I doubt that this fight is the cakewalk you think it is.

Strength is not the main consideration here. The Surfer has FTL reflexes and combat speed. All Star Superman never demonstrated that kind of speed. And Thor's fight with Surfer and BRB in Blood and Thunder? Yeah, how comics portrays characters and how the fight is considered in battle forums is a little different. PIS is out. If Surfer had've used his speed, Thor would've been wrecked.

All Star Superman gets destroyed.

@AllStarSuperman: See Killemall's response previous to this one. I have read All Star Superman in it's entirety. He DID fly to Alpha Centauri. There is NO mention of time. The only thing I give to All Star Superman is the increase in strength. But the Surfer is FTL in combat speed. He puts AS Superman down before he can react.

@Malevolent1 said:

@AllStarSuperman: See Killemall's response previous to this one. I have read All Star Superman in it's entirety. He DID fly to Alpha Centauri. There is NO mention of time. The only thing I give to All Star Superman is the increase in strength. But the Surfer is FTL in combat speed. He puts AS Superman down before he can react.

i own the allstar set and seen the movie in the movie while lois is showering in the last couples seconds decides to bring her some flowers from alpha centuri. just watch the beging of this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y8g4QxgA3U&feature=watch_response