Aliens vs Aliens

@wut: Now that i can quote what you are saying this should make it easier for me to reply your statements.

They do not die to weapons that are outdated. Please prove the weapons used in Resistance against the Chimera are outdated. They have to fill them with bullets until the damage outdoes the regeneration. (Case in point, we developed the M1911 pistol in WW1. We still use it today!)

Show videos that aren't gameplay? Please do.

As you can see here a so called "tough hybrid" is being punched by a regular human..

Next we got a quote from the game explaining all it takes is one shot to set off their back generators and those explode!

"Pest control...

Okay, you guys we've got something worse than

cockroaches to deal with. Folks call them Grunts.

Watch for the heatstacks on their backs. If you can

score a hit on their stacks, those suckers will overheat

and blow up!

Or, better yet shoot a Grunt while it's standing next to

another Grunt, and you'll score a deuce with one bullet.

And we want to conserve on ammo don't we?

Never give up, and never give in."

- Longgun

Oh, wow its like what i've been saying this whole time. I never said they'd pick it up quick the argument was almost all team 1 attacks from all different directions thus if all they have to do is shoot its back once and see that it explodes, then well we found their weakness and so let the baiting begin.

As for that thing saying they used normal weapons to kill Chimera heres some right here, it doesn't like alien to me..

You're missing my point. Surface Area = Area Displaced. Those energy balls/beams/odd looking fire are much larger then a bullet. A bullet displaces concrete just like the energy blast does (Which is something you did even know before I posted the videos), however, because the energy has a larger surface area then a much, much smaller bullet, it can move more concrete out of its way. If the bullet were the same size it would also blow concrete pillars out of its way.Thus, there is no proof that it is above a human weapon as we do not know how it works. Yes. Knowing how a weapon works helps a lot in determining how strong it is. If the energy weapon is thermo based then it is incredibly powerful as it takes a lot of energy to disintegrate someone, however, it doesn't look thermo to me.

No, I understand your point. What you are not understanding is that either way it is on par or above human tech which is enough to end anyone on team 2.

The weapon is featless. All we can prove is that it can knock away concrete. Human small arms fire does the same thing.

Yes our weapons can do that not on the scale their hand held weapons could..

I do not watch S.H.E.I.L.D, do you happen to have the clip on hand? Now, by 'lived' do you mean walked it off like nothing happened? Or was put down and needed external help to stay alive?

The weapons are still featless. I never said they were worthless, I said featless. Just like their armor, and bloody well near everything they have.

No i tried to find it even typed in the episodes online nothing came up.

Again, as I said when I first wrote about them! High end makes them thermoenergy which means they rolfstomp everyone here with gigawatt level firepower. Low end and they are the same as a normal human assault rifle in terms of power using some odd kind of energy that is 'Marvel-Verse' and so we can't really gauge how effective they are. Average puts them as having somewhere above human weaponry (which almost everyone here already has) but seems to need to directly hit the opponent to be effective (Shields deflected them with no problem, and we have no reason to believe they were made of anything different from Asgardian armor, in fact, the Asgardian's armor looked fine even after being shot. They, themselves, just seemed to have disappeared.)

Wow a whole paragraph for something i've been stating for a few replies now. I never again claimed they were the best weapons in the world, i merely pointed out that we had something to base it on! That was what it did to concrete and Asgardians. I used asgardians as a point reference because they were not killed by normal fire arms and fought beasts that would crush us as humans.

OP says 2 million grunts and 100,000 special troops. How in the world is this 'extremely low on numbers and barely breaking the thousands'?

Asgardians are better then humans, but we do not know how much better a normal asgardian is to a human in the Marvel Movie universe.

Learn to read here let me quote what i said.

Considering its always been known that Asgardians are superior to humans in just about every way including weapons though it'd be harder to kill someone due to having to get into close range if they were to use swords and shields never the less, i wouldn't say they were featless at all. I also do recall me saying that all yet besides the locust are extremely low on numbers they barely break the thousands in this op while we got millions on ours..

Anyway locust weapons barely pierce concrete as well unless you can prove that they some how can which doesn't make them as valuable as you thought.

All metal equals the same?... What? Asgardian armor = Shield, most likely, because they appear to be made of the same metal! Trying to claim Aluminum is as tough as Titanium (Because hey! They are both metal!) is rather foolish.

Human weaponry goes through metal (Would you like me to find you some more videos?). Locust weaponry would go through metal (The use conventional weaponry just like RL humans!). Gameplay does not count!

No, I'd like to know the calibers the gears and locust use. Also Locust bullets and cog bullets do deflect off locust shields and armor that has been in the games and stuff that you won't see in the comics because the comics don't go in depth.

Can you prove their armor are as strong as their helmets? No. You can't. Logic says the helmet is going to be one of the thickest parts of the armor! As it has always been throughout human history! (Har har, these are aliens so not humans! Yes, aliens who were written and designed by humans!)

Wrong, helmets were meant to stop extremely light arms such as pistols or flying shrapnel and falling debris that was it. Unless you can provide this which I doubt.

Wait... *rubs forehead* did you just seriously.... compare a punch to being flipped over someones shoulder and why one is proof for their armor being thicker and that side of their body? I am just going to ignore this and move to your talk about him punching the face instead of the gut, do you know why? Because a punch to the face is more effective then a punch togut! Stay with me now, again, if their helmet can be punched through, that does not bode well for the rest of their armor!

I'm glad we got that out of the way, we have concluded from your words that a punch to the head is more effective than a punch to the gut. Well thank you for agreeing with me that again their armor would be tougher than their helmets.

What? Elites eat clips of UNSC fire. Drones can have half their faces blown off and not care. Chimera have insane regeneration. The only ones who can't take a good number of shots on their team is the Gungans who I am ignoring anyways.

When have the comics ever been stated to be non-canon?

When have I ever said that the elites and brutes wouldn't be tough? I said the majority of the covenant forces here are FODDER. If the op gave them 100,000 elites that'd be an effective fighting force, the problem is HE DIDNT. Now with that said one or two locust losing half their heads doesn't mean that all locust would be able to do this, and Chimera can not regen when their backpack is destroyed even the source said so they explode and could hurt others if they are close enough making them even less than what you are trying to make them out to be. Provide proof otherwise stating that it doesn't do what i just quoted.

Lets crush this right here: Locust were beaten by the Lambent disease not humanity. They fought humanity to try and escape from that. Seriously, did you not remember anything about Gears of War 2? The bomb was humanities last ditch effort to try and defeat the Locust, and it failed destroying their last city. They then had to fall back to an island and use a 'super secret awesome new bomb Deus Ex Machina!!! To defeat the Locust/Lambent' that took them decades to develop. Yes, great point here Ares, because obviously, these guys are going to build this super bomb in the middle of this battle and show those Locust what for!

No, I understand what you are saying. What you don't get is that the COG and their enemy at the time just had peace were at the weakest point in human history, and it took the locust not 1 not 2 but 15 yes thats right 15 YEARS to get where they were that day at the end of gears of war 3. Whom the Locust basically lost after the end of 2 because they had a missing queen, another dead general, and were having to fight off the lambent whom, prove me wrong if you can but i doubt it, were taking heavier losses to than the COG and the rest of humanity.

Covenant were crushing humanity. Crushing them. The Covenant never lost the war. Their civil war made them decide to stop fighting humanity (as there was no point to it anymore as they no longer thought the humans had to be exterminated as the Prophets told them).

Rrrrrriiiiiigggggghhhhhhtttt, was this before or after john 117 single handily beat thousands not hundreds but thousands of covenant troops with utter ease..

The Chimera were crushing humanity. They managed to close the wormhole which somehow (Plot shield!!) shut down all the other terraforming towers thus increasing the heat and weakening all the other Chimera. This allowed the humans to take over. They had to use hybrids as the earth wasn't suited for their biology yet (luckily, they use Hybrids in the OP.)

I might of stumbled across a pattern here. How were they crushing humanity again?

I conclude that humanity itself has beaten all these races, where as again i do state my two races weren't beat by mere super soldier or a squad of peak humans, but by the A team earth had to offer with an unstoppable juggernaut, a GOD, a Super soldier, a Guy that would literally crush ur forces until he ran out of power, and two extremely well trained soldiers whom lets face it are above human peak on skills such as archery and fighting. Please do tell me how your races would fair better if they had a tiny portal to go through..

The Umbarans were defeated by clones with a general who wanted to get them killed.

How many times do i have to tell you, that they were being pushed back before and struggling with anakin leading the way? Should rewatch those episodes online and see just how decent the Umbarans were for a MILITIA force. Also the force wasn't let by 1 jedi, but 7 including obi-won whom was struggling to even the LARGE scale fight..

Leaders don't take part in the battlefield love. Sorry. They are just there to give out commands, so guess what that means! It doesn't matter how they died, what matters is what they did in life.

When did i ever say they would take part in the battle? I said they would use superior tactics again to their advantage not to mention as even stated by yourself that team 1 has superior tactics. This would increase their odds against some of the benefits team two shares.

No. You wanted to bring up his character. I did not want to bring up a Viner's character in the middle of a debate (Or ever) about something else. Asking someone to provide feats for a faction they know a lot about is not the same. I did not care when you tried to bring Davis in to cover you in the debate with the Protoss, did I?

Who's Davis, and no you did because you already called all his quotes useless as well and ignored how well they were put together.. Don't try to derail this when you already spammed it in another thread stay on topic. I don't want his quotes because he's already used them. You say the covenant are a major player I've seen proof from 2 out of the 3 time to get proof for the third one unless you can't provide it and in this case shows that u used are proof are the best what the covenant has to offer. If this is the case then we learned the covenant are not as high and mighty as we think.

He got hit in the shin. Not exactly a kill shot is it?

Shin he got hit in the shin? O that jackal couldn't take out a single kid without them even knowing? Oh, so much for them being even close to effective fodder..

A super soldier who is basically featless? Master Chief is featless? Are.... Are you serious? Or did you just not know that said super soldier in Forward Unto Dawn was Master Chief?

Yep check out this thread and try to prove me wrong. Even the experts of halo say its two different versions. Thats why it was even labled different which leads to him hes featless.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/master-chief-vs-captain-america-movie-versions-1596989/

*Rubs forehead* You do know they used Hybrids in the early stages of the war because the environment was not suitable for true chimera bodies? Right? I hope so. Because we are using Hybrids in this OP which means they are not going to 'basically catch on fire'.

Too bad that quote proves otherwise. Thank god you asked me to research some more or I might of believed you.

You continue to assume the other races are going to learn about the vials on their back fast enough to make a difference. Or the fact that hitting four small vials on someones backis very hard to do! Especially when said beings get to shoot back at you, and unlike you, they can shoot you anywhere they bloody please.

That's because their going to be working together as a mixed fighting force. Its not 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 kind of deal even he said so himself here ill quote

either way there is no covenant space ships like that lol the battle is just a minor battle over the City of LA and keep in mind the armies are fighting individually but rather united and mixed over the city hint the teams work together.

Anyway you also forget the umbaran's bugs as well, as they can kill a lot of the team two's forces due to at least squad carrying them.

and that their star fighters can destroy tanks as well making it even more in their favor.

As for the Armor i couldn't find anything to give it a base durability.

Furthermore the Clone's rockets that you say are useless is right here

The PLX-1 which was used during and even after the clone wars in a ton of armies because it was very effective against ton's of armor. Although they didn't even harm the umbaran tanks even when more than 1 or 2 were fired at a direct spot..

Aliens xP

@the_titan_lord: lol besides that lol which side XD

Now that i can quote what you are saying this should make it easier for me to reply your statements.

You couldn't quote?

As you can see here a so called "tough hybrid" is being punched by a regular human..

I said they had incredibly regenerated. Not that they were impervious to blunt trauma. Unless you were trying to use that to show that the Chimera are all suddenly going to drop dead from fist despite being able to eat bullet fire pretty well?

Oh, wow its like what i've been saying this whole time. I never said they'd pick it up quick the argument was almost all team 1 attacks from all different directions thus if all they have to do is shoot its back once and see that it explodes, then well we found their weakness and so let the baiting begin.

As for that thing saying they used normal weapons to kill Chimera heres some right here, it doesn't like alien to me..

Oh wow! It is almost like the other team uses ambushes as well! Again, it is hard to hit someone on their back especially when they are shooting at you and so will be facing you! The fact that you are implying they are just going to try and bait them into traps (And then assume the other side because suddenly incompetent), that still puts them at a disadvantage as they have to work around the natural resistance of the Chimera who do not have to do this for their opponent.

I never said normal weapons couldn't kill them. I said you out right abandon the crappy human carbine to pick up the vastly superior Chimera weaponry. The fact that you showed a Minigunkilling them then called that normal is a little worrying. Nothing on either team is standing up to minigun fire save for the heavies.

You were the one talking about Chimera falling to 'outdated' weaponry. This is not so and is what I called you out on as you tried to imply that the Chimera are lesser for losing to a race that is from the 1950s as they have 'outdated' weaponry despite ignoring the fact that America and Britain in this time use different firearms then us and are far more advanced then we were at that time thanks to the constant war. Unless you were attempting to replace the word 'outdated' with 'common' to try and sneak it by me?

To quote your quote:

"Pest control...

Okay, you guys we've got something worse than cockroaches to deal with. Folks call them Grunts. Watch for the heatstacks on their backs. If you can score a hit on their stacks, those suckers will overheat and blow up! Or, better yet shoot a Grunt while it's standing next to another Grunt, and you'll score a deuce with one bullet. And we want to conserve on ammo don't we?

Never give up, and never give in."

- Longgun

Let us take a look at this, shall we?

Worse then cockroaches to deal with. Meaning they are rather hard to put down as cockroachs are hard to kill. When someone calls something a cockroach, it implies they are rather tough and just won't die. (So yes, once again, another allusion to their impressive durability).

My favorite part? If you can score a hit. Hitting someone on their back is not easy when they are shooting at you! The terrain which is a massive city is going to be hell as it is going to be tightly packed fighting and ambushes going on with both sides. The fact you continue to assume the Chimera and its team are going to be incompetent while the other team goes super commando astonishes me.

No, I understand your point. What you are not understanding is that either way it is on par or above human tech which is enough to end anyone on team 2.

I never said it couldn't kill members of team two. I said it was featless! Which means we do not understand how it really works! All we know is that the large energy ball packs enough kinetic energy to knock away concrete! That is it! It has some unknown mechanism that makes Asgardians disappear in their armor, but when it doesn't directly strike something connected to their body it does nothing!

We. Do. Not. Understand. How. It. Works. Or. Its. Limitations. It. Is. Featless.

Which is why there are going to be different interpretations! I said that the middle ground interpretation puts them on par or slightly better then human weaponry! I use middle ground interpretations!

Yes our weapons can do that not on the scale their hand held weapons could..

I beg to differ. Larger caliber weapons can and do (And yes, they are handheld). However, while our assault rifles wouldn't do that much damage per shot (due to smaller surface area) they do have a much faster firing rate.

So again, middle ground interpretation. They are on par or slightly above human weaponry in the kinetic force department that use some unknown method to kill.

No i tried to find it even typed in the episodes online nothing came up.

A shame. Again, did the asgardian eat the bullets and shrug them off like the Hulk? Or did it lay him out, and he had to have external methods to stay alive?

There are 2 million Hybrid 3s (Chimera). 2 million drones (Locust). 3 million gungan. 820,000 Covenant in total. Only one of these teams do not break the millions. Care to explain where you got the 'everyone else but the locust barely break thousands'?

Anyway locust weapons barely pierce concrete as well unless you can prove that they some how can which doesn't make them as valuable as you thought.

No, I'd like to know the calibers the gears and locust use. Also Locust bullets and cog bullets do deflect off locust shields and armor that has been in the games and stuff that you won't see in the comics because the comics don't go in depth.

Considering how large the bullets are... they are rather large. However, the barrel is rather short implying that is a trade off between size and muzzle velocity.

Without measuring the pixels because that would take a long time, and frankly I don't want to do it, compare it to this:

http://www.gunsandammo.info/wp-content/uploads/cartridge-size-comparison.jpg

So, it seems to be a little longer and a good bit fatter then the 7.62mm round, so yes, it would go through sheets of metal and concrete.

Wrong, helmets were meant to stop extremely light arms such as pistols or flying shrapnel and falling debris that was it. Unless you can provide this which I doubt.

Do not feel doubt, my child, for I shall provide.

PASGT helmet has 19 layers of kevlar.

The PASGT vest has 13 layers of Kevlar. 19 vs 13, one of these has more protection.

Let us go with more modern examples, shall we?

ACH helmet and IOTV (The newest in American Military Bodyarmor)

Helmet specs are

4 grain - 3,450 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

16 grain - 2,452 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

IOTV armor specs are

4 grain - 2,540 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

16 grain - 2,090 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration

Once again. The Helmet. Is. Superior. I could go into more ancient examples, but I feel that would be overkill

http://www.dodig.mil/audit/reports/fy11/11-030.pdf

http://www.gentexcorp.com/assets/base/Helmets/ACH.pdf

Now, for the sake of argument, let us assume the Umbaran's like to be backwards and have their armor superior to their helmet! But guess what! Their helmet was still punctured by a fist! Which still does not bode well for their armor! No matter how we slice it, their armor has a fairly low showing.

When have I ever said that the elites and brutes wouldn't be tough? I said the majority of the covenant forces here are FODDER. If the op gave them 100,000 elites that'd be an effective fighting force, the problem is HE DIDNT. Now with that said one or two locust losing half their heads doesn't mean that all locust would be able to do this, and Chimera can not regen when their backpack is destroyed even the source said so they explode and could hurt others if they are close enough making them even less than what you are trying to make them out to be. Provide proof otherwise stating that it doesn't do what i just quoted.

Fodder? The only fodder are grunts and drones, the drones are very fast air swarmers, and so very useful given the environment and Grunts just love their grenades. Are they as good as Locust Drones or Chimera Hybrids? Oh my no, but the Covenant do have powerful elites and brutes to back them up.

I and will say, again, look at the Chimera. Just look at them. Imagine getting caught in a fire fight with one, and you are trying to shoot enough of those four small vials to get them to blow up. Yea. Good luck.

I never said shooting the vials wouldn't work? I said the way you are trying to make it seem like it is an instant win is hilariously misleading. It is hard as hell to hit those vials on a moving target who is going to be facing you! Yes, they could ambush. But said ambushers could be ambushed as well! To assume your team is going to go super commando as mine just wanders the city like FNGs is rather foolish.

The simple fact is. Umbarans have weak armor. Chimera have impressive regeneration. If we go your route, the Umbarans have to hit the small vials on the Chimera's back. The chimera just needs to shoot the Umbaran. One of these two has a natural advantage in a firefight.

No, I understand what you are saying. What you don't get is that the COG and their enemy at the time just had peace were at the weakest point in human history, and it took the locust not 1 not 2 but 15 yes thats right 15 YEARS to get where they were that day at the end of gears of war 3. Whom the Locust basically lost after the end of 2 because they had a missing queen, another dead general, and were having to fight off the lambent whom, prove me wrong if you can but i doubt it, were taking heavier losses to than the COG and the rest of humanity.

And I assume you have proof that claim (You don't get to sit there and demand I prove you wrong while you not provide any evidence that is the Negative Proof Fallacy), in the brief time that Humanity ran into the Lambent during their war with the Locust, that humanity caused more casualties?

They massacred most of the human population who then retreated into heavily guarded and armed fortress cities. Right. Because that is always so simply to break into.

Again. This has no bearings unless you are trying to use this to show Raam as incompetent?

Rrrrrriiiiiigggggghhhhhhtttt, was this before or after john 117 single handily beat thousands not hundreds but thousands of covenant troops with utter ease..

Was that before or after Humanity was desperately trying to hide Earth from the Covenant as they lost world after world such as Reach which was one of their most important planets in the matter of days? Or how they had to outnumber the Covenant ships 3 to 1 in order to have a shot at a naval victory? Or how an escort fleet that did not even know the planet they were going to was earth and the capital planet of the humans nearly overwhelmed their orbital defenses?

Oh, but yes, do please go on.

I might of stumbled across a pattern here. How were they crushing humanity again?

I conclude that humanity itself has beaten all these races, where as again i do state my two races weren't beat by mere super soldier or a squad of peak humans, but by the A team earth had to offer with an unstoppable juggernaut, a GOD, a Super soldier, a Guy that would literally crush ur forces until he ran out of power, and two extremely well trained soldiers whom lets face it are above human peak on skills such as archery and fighting. Please do tell me how your races would fair better if they had a tiny portal to go through..

Have you just not played Resistance? Like... Ever?

Here is Resistance 1. Overran all of Europe in weeks.

What was left of Britain after just Resistance 1.

Skip to 6:50

They managed to find a little over 900 survivors. Impressive. Soooo impressive. So many people left.

Let us skip to Resistance 3 to see how the United States fared, shall we?

So, yes, again. Humanity got crushed. Crazy, I know, but stay with me here... there is reason... it is called Resistance. You are a small resistance force (humanity) trying to defeat a vastly superior foe.

Maybe because they wouldn't let themselves get bottled up like... well... like Chitauri? And instead spread out in order to spread the defenders thin and overwhelm them with superior numbers? But you are right, what do I know of tactics compared to the 'GOD' Loki? Because, I mean, it wasn't like this super awesome team of awesome sauce that are better then everything else because you really like them and they just happen to be what your team fought were getting overwhelmed and won thanks to their own special sauce of Deus Ex Machina!

How many times do i have to tell you, that they were being pushed back before and struggling with anakin leading the way? Should rewatch those episodes online and see just how decent the Umbarans were for a MILITIA force. Also the force wasn't let by 1 jedi, but 7 including obi-won whom was struggling to even the LARGE scale fight..

The 501st, the clones we get to see in action against the Umbarans were being lead by 1 Jedi. Who 'pretended' to not hear Obi-Wan and his orders. Obi-Wan would have had an easier time if the Jedi leading the 501st was willing to do what Obi-Wan needed of him.

And they are still a MILITIA force here, so what is your point? (And yet, I am called back to that point where I said the Umbarans weren't impressive... wait... I never said that O.o)

When did i ever say they would take part in the battle? I said they would use superior tactics again to their advantage not to mention as even stated by yourself that team 1 has superior tactics. This would increase their odds against some of the benefits team two shares.

I said they showed superior tactics yes, and I still agree that the Umbarans are the most tactically sound of the people here, but that isn't by a large margin compared to the others (miles ahead of some (gungans and Chitarui)).

Who's Davis, and no you did because you already called all his quotes useless as well and ignored how well they were put together.. Don't try to derail this when you already spammed it in another thread stay on topic. I don't want his quotes because he's already used them. You say the covenant are a major player I've seen proof from 2 out of the 3 time to get proof for the third one unless you can't provide it and in this case shows that u used are proof are the best what the covenant has to offer. If this is the case then we learned the covenant are not as high and mighty as we think.

You called someone in on one of the Protoss debates, and I cared less.

Ignored how well they were put together? You mean those massive masses of half-sentences that you couldn't be bothered to format that I went and did for you in my reply? You mean that massive massive amount of non-combat feats that I called worthless? The ones where I spent half an hour or more digging through over and over again to tryand find some combat feats in them? Those ones? Right, because I am just super meanie head who is unreasonable for demanding you provide combat feats for protoss in a combat thread! I noted every time you did actually provide a combat feat and replied accordingly.

And what do 'we think?'.

"The Chief heard machinery whir, figured he had triggered a sensor, and waited for the lift to arrive. For the first time in hours there was no immediate threat, no imminent danger, and the spartan allowed himself to relax fractionally. It was a mistake.

"chief!" Cortana said. "get back!"

Thanks to the warning, he was already backing up through the hatch when the lift appeared from below, and the elite, seated in the plasma turret, opened fire.

special ops Officer Zuka 'Zamamee fired the shade. The energy cannon took up most of the platform, leaving barely enough room for the grunts who had helped the elite wrestle the weapon aboard. The bolt flared blue, hit the hatch as it started to close, and slagged half the door. - Halo First Strike

Instantly melting the melt of a door and reducing it to slag. Yes, that is impressive. Can you imagine what is going to happen when it hits flesh? I can, and it isn't pretty.

The Master Chief managed to force a stalemate: the pistol now pointed straight up between their bodies. If it went off it would hit them both-- one shot at point-blank range might collaspe their shields. They'd both fry.

John turned the gun into its face--squeezed the firing mechanism. The plasma discharge exploded into the creature. Fire sprayed across its shields; they shimmered, flickered, and dimmed. The energy splash washed over the Master chief; his shields drained to a quarter. The internal suit temperature spiked to critical levels.

But the elite's shields were dead.

The Master chief pushed away and fired the pistol again. The bolt of fire caught the elite in the face.

It writhed and clawed at nothing. The elite shuddered. . . suspended in midair, it twitched and finally stopped moving," - Halo: The Flood

Firing a pistol too close would fry them both. Again, impressive. Melted an Elites face as he was helpless to stop it. Impressive.

Another plasma bolt hit--directly in front of the warthog. Heat washed over harland. Blisters pinpricked his back. He screamed but kept shooting. If they hadn't been in water, that plasma would have melted the tires. . . probably would have flash-fried them all. -

Halo: The Fall of reach

A plasma round hitting in front of it! It didn't even land a direct hit would have instantly melted the tires if they hadn't been in water. Again. Impressive.

Before the Covenant forces could locate where the incoming fire had originated, the Master chief opend fire on a blue-armored Elite. It took a full magazine to put the warrior down, but it beat the hell out of going toe-to-toe with the alien where there wasn't any need to.

Halo: The Fall of reach

A full clip to put down the Elite. Again. Impressive. Especially when we consider a mere plasma pistol did the same thing!

Kelly rotated her tank about and fired at the remaining Wraiths and the cluster of Grunts trying to put out the fires near those she'd already destroyed. For a split second the ground was the surface of the a sun; it flared, faded, and then was nothing but ash. - Halo: First Strike

Wraiths. They hurt when they hit.

The Banshee hit the ground, skidding through fist-sized rocks. The battered craft flipped and tossed him to the ground. The Banshee rolled end over end and crashed into the hunter.

The massive alien brought up its thick, metal, shield and shrugged off the wreckage as if it were cardboard. - Halo: First Strike

Hunters. They are tough SOBs.

Zamamee felt his plasma rifle cycle open as it attempted to cool itself, and knew he was about to die, when a plasma grenade sailed in among the humans and locked onto a human soldier's arm. He yelled, "No!" but it was already too late, and the explosion slaughtered the entire fire team. - Halo: The Flood

Plasma Grenades. Are mean.

Shin he got hit in the shin? O that jackal couldn't take out a single kid without them even knowing? Oh, so much for them being even close to effective fodder..

Or he was wounding one of them forcing them to move slower to carry their comrade, which humans are known to do, in order to put them at a further disadvantage for the ambush that erupted moments later.

See? I can throw out random crap too.

Too bad that quote proves otherwise. Thank god you asked me to research some more or I might of believed you.

Lastly to answer your second post i never claimed it was an instant win. Due to the location the op has picked for us to debate over has extremely high heat and without those coolers on their backs they would fry very soon and very fast on top of that taking fire from other races as well. I'd say the healing factor isn't gonna heal when their whole body is basically on fire.

I have to apologize. I read it as 'extremely high heat and with those coolers on their backs they would fry very soon and very fast on top of...'

That one was my bad.

Yep check out this thread and try to prove me wrong. Even the experts of halo say its two different versions. Thats why it was even labled different which leads to him hes featless.

People on Viner =/= Microsoft. Until Microsoft says they are two different versions (In fact, Lasky from the show, meets up with Chief in Halo 4 implying they are part of the same universe) they are the same. Canon sucks doesn't it?

That's because their going to be working together as a mixed fighting force. Its not 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 vs 1 on 1 kind of deal even he said so himself here ill quote

How does this apply to anything? I never said they fought individually, and I never said they didn't work together, but again, you have to shoot the Chimera in the back! If you want to take the Vials away, but let us think of this... in a new way! Their allies means there will be someone without their weakness watching their backs! Crazy! I know!

Both sides can get shot in the back from an ambush! Both sides will, probably, die in this scenario! Crazy! I know!

Anyway you also forget the umbaran's bugs as well, as they can kill a lot of the team two's forces due to at least squad carrying them.

Interesting, I had forgotten about those assassin droids, I wonder how many they would have? As we only saw it once, so I would assume not many.

As for the Armor i couldn't find anything to give it a base durability.

Any ship that has similar level of firepower to their lasers would be able to punch through it as they used those fliers to destroy other fliers.

Furthermore the Clone's rockets that you say are useless is right here

The PLX-1 which was used during and even after the clone wars in a ton of armies because it was very effective against ton's of armor. Although they didn't even harm the umbaran tanks even when more than 1 or 2 were fired at a direct spot..

I believe I said 'Low Yield' and they do look low yield.

Team 2 gives team 1 Jar Jar Binks and waits for them to commit suicide.

I know it's not original. Deal with it.

@wut: You about done torn him a new hole XD LOLOLOLOLOL XD

@geth: LOL i like that answer XD, however jar jar is not in this cause he'd troll his allies to death XD

@killerwasp:

His reply that time was pretty good.

Sidenote, do you know how hard it was to find information on military grade bodyarmor? Not easy, but understandable I suppose as the United States wouldn't really want information floating on Wikipedia on how much force is needed to penetrate their armor (not much really.)

@wut: " information floating on Wikipedia" <--- -____-

bad wut bad! XD

NEVER USE WIKI AS A SOURCE U MOFO!

@killerwasp: It was a joke :D But seriously, had to really look for it. Outside of obviously dubious Yahoo answers and crazy outlier feats that admit to being outliers along with 'generalized' armor ratings made it rather tedious to find the hard numbers.

@wut: lol XD

@killerwasp: Well in that case, I still think team 2 wins. Stronger soldiers IMO.

@wut: No I couldn't quote because i didn't know how to.

I said they had incredibly regenerated. Not that they were impervious to blunt trauma. Unless you were trying to use that to show that the Chimera are all suddenly going to drop dead from fist despite being able to eat bullet fire pretty well?

No, im merely pointing out that humans can do physical harm, and if they can do physical harm this would also mean that they can be hurt by the aliens in physical combat. If they take damage from mere punches they will not last very long against team 1's weapons..

Oh wow! It is almost like the other team uses ambushes as well! Again, it is hard to hit someone on their back especially when they are shooting at you and so will be facing you! The fact that you are implying they are just going to try and bait them into traps (And then assume the other side because suddenly incompetent), that still puts them at a disadvantage as they have to work around the natural resistance of the Chimera who do not have to do this for their opponent.

I never said normal weapons couldn't kill them. I said you out right abandon the crappy human carbine to pick up the vastly superior Chimera weaponry. The fact that you showed a Minigunkilling them then called that normal is a little worrying. Nothing on either team is standing up to minigun fire save for the heavies.

You were the one talking about Chimera falling to 'outdated' weaponry. This is not so and is what I called you out on as you tried to imply that the Chimera are lesser for losing to a race that is from the 1950s as they have 'outdated' weaponry despite ignoring the fact that America and Britain in this time use different firearms then us and are far more advanced then we were at that time thanks to the constant war. Unless you were attempting to replace the word 'outdated' with 'common' to try and sneak it by me?

First off team 1 has basically one solid army of ambushers that's all the LA alien's did, they also got two more that use their surroundings way more efficient and effective than anyone on team 2. This can allow them to hit or do back shots better than the humans in resistance. Furthermore you asked for proof of them being killed in a couple of shots u never said what weapons we could use or not use in this. A minigun is my point if they were as tough as you say the bullets launched from a minigun wouldn't of mattered cause they'd still need to be "pumped full of lead" to be dropped and as good as you claim their healing factor to be, again this wouldn't matter they could "walk it off" and precede to smash the humans. This also proves they rely on swarming and using numbers to their advantage rather than using tactics.

Let us take a look at this, shall we?

Worse then cockroaches to deal with. Meaning they are rather hard to put down as cockroachs are hard to kill. When someone calls something a cockroach, it implies they are rather tough and just won't die. (So yes, once again, another allusion to their impressive durability).

My favorite part? If you can score a hit. Hitting someone on their back is not easy when they are shooting at you! The terrain which is a massive city is going to be hell as it is going to be tightly packed fighting and ambushes going on with both sides. The fact you continue to assume the Chimera and its team are going to be incompetent while the other team goes super commando astonishes me.

Wrong, it does not mean they are harder to kill it means they are harder to end as a race than cockroachs because cockroachs are hard to get rid of when they infest an area. My favorite part a human still able to do it whom was IIRC a militia man or a minuteman so to speak. Best part its still possible, my favorite part out of that quote is that hes saying that he, himself could do this without even ambushing or using tactics per say. With this in mind we can say the aliens would fair better especially the LA and Umbarans.

I never said it couldn't kill members of team two. I said it was featless! Which means we do not understand how it really works! All we know is that the large energy ball packs enough kinetic energy to knock away concrete! That is it! It has some unknown mechanism that makes Asgardians disappear in their armor, but when it doesn't directly strike something connected to their body it does nothing!

I never said you did, you are just doubting it in general.

A shame. Again, did the asgardian eat the bullets and shrug them off like the Hulk? Or did it lay him out, and he had to have external methods to stay alive?

Half and half he was fine when he got shot, but over time he took effect and was having to have the bullets remove, but his superior healing regeneration was able to heal itself even though it had pierced some internal organs and such. Keep in mind he wasn't wearing anything.

There are 2 million Hybrid 3s (Chimera). 2 million drones (Locust). 3 million gungan. 820,000 Covenant in total. Only one of these teams do not break the millions. Care to explain where you got the 'everyone else but the locust barely break thousands'?

Mind explaining how you some how twisted my quote? When we were discussing this, it was over mere fodder. I was stating that in general only a few other than the locust could match them in hand to hand combat. Suggesting the rest wouldn't stand much of a chance. It had nothing to do with GENERAL forces.

Considering how large the bullets are... they are rather large. However, the barrel is rather short implying that is a trade off between size and muzzle velocity.

Without measuring the pixels because that would take a long time, and frankly I don't want to do it, compare it to this:

http://www.gunsandammo.info/wp-content/uploads/cartridge-size-comparison.jpg

So, it seems to be a little longer and a good bit fatter then the 7.62mm round, so yes, it would go through sheets of metal and concrete.

Barely, and it does lack range which team 1 could use to their advantage, just like how most of team 2 lacks race on standard arms.

Do not feel doubt, my child, for I shall provide.

PASGT helmet has 19 layers of kevlar.

The PASGT vest has 13 layers of Kevlar. 19 vs 13, one of these has more protection.

Let us go with more modern examples, shall we?

ACH helmet and IOTV (The newest in American Military Bodyarmor)

Helmet specs are

4 grain - 3,450 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

16 grain - 2,452 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

IOTV armor specs are

4 grain - 2,540 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration.

16 grain - 2,090 ft/s with a 50% chance of penetration

Once again. The Helmet. Is. Superior. I could go into more ancient examples, but I feel that would be overkill

http://www.dodig.mil/audit/reports/fy11/11-030.pdf

http://www.gentexcorp.com/assets/base/Helmets/ACH.pdf

Now, for the sake of argument, let us assume the Umbaran's like to be backwards and have their armor superior to their helmet! But guess what! Their helmet was still punctured by a fist! Which still does not bode well for their armor! No matter how we slice it, their armor has a fairly low showing.

Don't mind me son, lets do show and tell.

What do you see in this picture.

Notice something? ill leave that with you to decide if you don't ill explain kid.

Fodder? The only fodder are grunts and drones, the drones are very fast air swarmers, and so very useful given the environment and Grunts just love their grenades. Are they as good as Locust Drones or Chimera Hybrids? Oh my no, but the Covenant do have powerful elites and brutes to back them up.

I and will say, again, look at the Chimera. Just look at them. Imagine getting caught in a fire fight with one, and you are trying to shoot enough of those four small vials to get them to blow up. Yea. Good luck.

I never said shooting the vials wouldn't work? I said the way you are trying to make it seem like it is an instant win is hilariously misleading. It is hard as hell to hit those vials on a moving target who is going to be facing you! Yes, they could ambush. But said ambushers could be ambushed as well! To assume your team is going to go super commando as mine just wanders the city like FNGs is rather foolish.

Grunts, drones, and jackals are considered fodder, if they are not then provide proof that they are above that mostly hinting at the jackals.

No, if i was logically a trained soldier I'd take for its head, which has NO PROTECTION. With that in mind do tell me how they would live after a head shot. Now if I was working with a squad of soldiers and i could climb buildings with ease and use my surroundings efficiently then i'd take up a spot to allow me to flank or be behind them and aim for solid mass which means the back which means it'd be shot and they'd find a weak spot within the Chimeran forces. This is just me though how you'd approach it would be most likely different.

I never claimed it as an instant win? My team does go commando, as I've shown they use ambushes on new enemy forces please do provide when the Chimera to an new enemy has started off with ambushing and using the environment to its advantage, along with the rest of your team. I'm not claiming they'd be rambo, im suggesting they use different methods of fighting rather than team 2 does. This in my mind would be more effective considering it's rare for team 2 to use such tactics.

And I assume you have proof that claim (You don't get to sit there and demand I prove you wrong while you not provide any evidence that is the Negative Proof Fallacy), in the brief time that Humanity ran into the Lambent during their war with the Locust, that humanity caused more casualties?

They massacred most of the human population who then retreated into heavily guarded and armed fortress cities. Right. Because that is always so simply to break into.

Again. This has no bearings unless you are trying to use this to show Raam as incompetent?

Indeed i do, its called marcus's quote

during this level of the mission if you have ever played GoW, the locust were losing the war as marcus stated that they were losing the war on their own turf. Also if you look up the battles; Battle of Pelruan and First Battle of New Jacinto you will see COG victories along with more as well even in a weakened state. You can claim that the lambent would of won because of blah blah blah, point is the Locust were losing to the Lambent if they were as good as you say they were they shouldn't of been losing..

Was that before or after Humanity was desperately trying to hide Earth from the Covenant as they lost world after world such as Reach which was one of their most important planets in the matter of days? Or how they had to outnumber the Covenant ships 3 to 1 in order to have a shot at a naval victory? Or how an escort fleet that did not even know the planet they were going to was earth and the capital planet of the humans nearly overwhelmed their orbital defenses?

Oh, but yes, do please go on.

Was this before or after Captain Keyes single handly destroyed an whole entire covenant fleet, or was this before and after Sgt Forge did this to the arbiter at the time..

Yeah.. thats right a normal marine kicked an superior elite's a$$ care to explain how they are suppose to be better than most? I think this puts them on the Chitauri level honestly just look at them get completely wasted.. In addition how about the civilians holding off the covenant army for weeks on end.. Care to explain how they were not getting completely wrecked again?

Have you just not played Resistance? Like... Ever?

Yes, and in the end what happens?

Here is Resistance 1. Overran all of Europe in weeks.

What was left of Britain after just Resistance 1.

Skip to 6:50

They managed to find a little over 900 survivors. Impressive. Soooo impressive. So many people left.

Let us skip to Resistance 3 to see how the United States fared, shall we?

So, yes, again. Humanity got crushed. Crazy, I know, but stay with me here... there is reason... it is called Resistance. You are a small resistance force (humanity) trying to defeat a vastly superior foe.

Wrong, the chimera would of lost if the Russians hadn't been so secretive and this took years for them to own Russia, who was terrible at the time period. They also gained all those numbers and launched a zerg rush across europe.. Again proving they wouldn't stand a snowballs chance if they had been noticed by the Europeans and if the countries had ready for war. Also care to show this without in game feats including their weapons since you know u took out the option for me using game feats.

Maybe because they wouldn't let themselves get bottled up like... well... like Chitauri? And instead spread out in order to spread the defenders thin and overwhelm them with superior numbers? But you are right, what do I know of tactics compared to the 'GOD' Loki? Because, I mean, it wasn't like this super awesome team of awesome sauce that are better then everything else because you really like them and they just happen to be what your team fought were getting overwhelmed and won thanks to their own special sauce of Deus Ex Machina!

Actually they were trying to spread out, they weren't necessary even trying to focus on the avengers at first, on top of that thor's lighting bottled them up. Again care to explain how any of the other races would of made it through that portal and would of won day again?

The 501st, the clones we get to see in action against the Umbarans were being lead by 1 Jedi. Who 'pretended' to not hear Obi-Wan and his orders. Obi-Wan would have had an easier time if the Jedi leading the 501st was willing to do what Obi-Wan needed of him.

In the beginning of the battle and about half way to their objective they switched commanders, the main force of the Umbarans had already been defeated by anakin who had a hard time. I understand if anakin was in charge things would of went smoother, and most likely better. Problem was the jedi u keep bringing up had his soldiers what was left over of the Umbarans. Furthermore of that they were on a different mission, yet they struggled against an outpost.. a OUTPOST.

You called someone in on one of the Protoss debates, and I cared less.

Ignored how well they were put together? You mean those massive masses of half-sentences that you couldn't be bothered to format that I went and did for you in my reply? You mean that massive massive amount of non-combat feats that I called worthless? The ones where I spent half an hour or more digging through over and over again to tryand find some combat feats in them? Those ones? Right, because I am just super meanie head who is unreasonable for demanding you provide combat feats for protoss in a combat thread! I noted every time you did actually provide a combat feat and replied accordingly.

And what do 'we think?'.

What? are you confused? No, i was explaining you shot down people's proof like tparks who is this person that you are trying to speak about? Are you talking about me or the person i tried to bring in which was tparks? What i said had nothing to do with me so stop trying to change the subject..

Instantly melting the melt of a door and reducing it to slag. Yes, that is impressive. Can you imagine what is going to happen when it hits flesh? I can, and it isn't pretty.

Too bad that was a plasma turret not a hand held weapon.

Firing a pistol too close would fry them both. Again, impressive. Melted an Elites face as he was helpless to stop it. Impressive.

Anything close range can do that.

A plasma round hitting in front of it! It didn't even land a direct hit would have instantly melted the tires if they hadn't been in water. Again. Impressive.

From air which is already discussed would be a loss on team 2, so this is impressive, but not useful in this battle.

A full clip to put down the Elite. Again. Impressive. Especially when we consider a mere plasma pistol did the same thing!

Not impressive really, considering the LA aliens took clips, until the via plot weak spot was found, but before then they were extremely hard to kill

Wraiths. They hurt when they hit.

Care to explain why they hurt again? those slow moving blobs that move at 1 mph could be simply dodged..

The Banshee hit the ground, skidding through fist-sized rocks. The battered craft flipped and tossed him to the ground. The Banshee rolled end over end and crashed into the hunter.

Care to explain how much a Banshee weights? I doubt it weights hardly anything.

Hunters. They are tough SOBs.

Along with what i stated before, weight of the banshee?

Plasma Grenades. Are mean.

That was most likely the only time it ever did anything at all.

Or he was wounding one of them forcing them to move slower to carry their comrade, which humans are known to do, in order to put them at a further disadvantage for the ambush that erupted moments later.

See? I can throw out random crap too.

That was one humanity's first encounter with the covenant if you actually watched the show and they wouldn't simply pick that up over a battle or two previous before. In total if this was the case why did he fire a shot right after? Oh, because he was trying to kill him.

I don't state random crap when you try to provide feats for the Covenant on how "good" they are.

I have to apologize. I read it as 'extremely high heat and with those coolers on their backs they would fry very soon and very fast on top of...'

That one was my bad.

No problem

People on Viner =/= Microsoft. Until Microsoft says they are two different versions (In fact, Lasky from the show, meets up with Chief in Halo 4 implying they are part of the same universe) they are the same. Canon sucks doesn't it?

Nope, it just goes to show that even when humanity first engaged the covenant, the covenant are terrible as before and as even now.

How does this apply to anything? I never said they fought individually, and I never said they didn't work together, but again, you have to shoot the Chimera in the back! If you want to take the Vials away, but let us think of this... in a new way! Their allies means there will be someone without their weakness watching their backs! Crazy! I know!

Except their team as that much better than them besides of course gungans whom are way worse of an ally.

Both sides can get shot in the back from an ambush! Both sides will, probably, die in this scenario! Crazy! I know!

This is right the problem is they hardly ambush and the one whom is known to do it DOESN'T GOT UNDERGROUND SPIDERS to help them this time, thus taking that tactic out of the book for the locust. In total would they be able to ambush or flank their enemies? Yes will it be as effective as team 1 and as much, no.

Interesting, I had forgotten about those assassin droids, I wonder how many they would have? As we only saw it once, so I would assume not many.

fair enough, but they still carry them and those two weren't the only ones stated there's been plenty in the game play version of the Umbarans.

Any ship that has similar level of firepower to their lasers would be able to punch through it as they used those fliers to destroy other fliers.

Difference is they are packing more damaging weapons than team 2 is. These weapons including missiles can be used to destroy the enemies on the ground.

I believe I said 'Low Yield' and they do look low yield.

No one on team 2 has that as their standard gear besides maybe the boomers and hunters and theirs I'm not seeing as being more effective than that. In conclusion they are not going to destroy those walkers allow them free reign on the battlefield.

No, im merely pointing out that humans can do physical harm, and if they can do physical harm this would also mean that they can be hurt by the aliens in physical combat. If they take damage from mere punches they will not last very long against team 1's weapons..

They can be hurt by the aliens in physical combat, a shame that there isn't really anyone on your team who is great at physical combat. The only one who may be are the Dark Elves if we assume movie ones are a match for Asgardians in every way.

Very long against team 1's weapons? You mean like the LA Aliens whose weaponry failed to pierce a normal modern day helmet? Right. Impressive.

First off team 1 has basically one solid army of ambushers that's all the LA alien's did, they also got two more that use their surroundings way more efficient and effective than anyone on team 2. This can allow them to hit or do back shots better than the humans in resistance. Furthermore you asked for proof of them being killed in a couple of shots u never said what weapons we could use or not use in this. A minigun is my point if they were as tough as you say the bullets launched from a minigun wouldn't of mattered cause they'd still need to be "pumped full of lead" to be dropped and as good as you claim their healing factor to be, again this wouldn't matter they could "walk it off" and precede to smash the humans. This also proves they rely on swarming and using numbers to their advantage rather than using tactics.

This can allow them to hit or do back shots better than the humans in resistance? And your proof of this is where?

Lol a couple of shots. Oh my lord, you sir, are hilarious. A minigun fires 2,000 to 6,000 rounds a minute. You can cut down trees with them! How in the hell do you not say that is 'pumped full of lead?' They were taking so many bullets they were coming apart! It was blowing chunks off of them! Did you live in your own world!?

*Facepalm* Oh my lord, one picture of them assaulting a position means, LOL THEY SWARM!!!! ignoring all previous evidence of them utilizing ambush tactics. You are seriously grasping now.

I asked for proof of your so called 'outdated' weaponry as you were trying to imply that Chimera are chumps for going down to weaponry from the '1950s'. I have called you on this crap more then a few times. Then you post a minigun and try to claim that I said they couldn't go down to normal weaponry, which I never said?

Wrong, it does not mean they are harder to kill it means they are harder to end as a race than cockroachs because cockroachs are hard to get rid of when they infest an area. My favorite part a human still able to do it whom was IIRC a militia man or a minuteman so to speak. Best part its still possible, my favorite part out of that quote is that hes saying that he, himself could do this without even ambushing or using tactics per say. With this in mind we can say the aliens would fair better especially the LA and Umbarans.

You do not recall correct as that quote came from a random guy in an intel file. We never meet him, so we have no idea who he is.

... What? He never said he could do it in or out of an ambush. He says IF quite a bit in that quote.

No, again, cockroaches are insanely durable. They are hard to kill, hard to get rid of, hard to really defeat. Chimera are cockroaches to this guy. They just won't stay down.

Actually they were trying to spread out, they weren't necessary even trying to focus on the avengers at first, on top of that thor's lighting bottled them up. Again care to explain how any of the other races would of made it through that portal and would of won day again?

Any of them that didn't go incomptent? Save for the Gungan?

Ohhh you mean that lightning that Thor shot for a grand total of five minutes after which he started running around and hitting things with his hammer? Great job on that Portal Thor!

They were focusing on the Avengers! They did not go out of a small tiny area! They did not even try to split up the guys who were killing them like mooks! They were just swarming into their killzones! No planning! No tactics! Loki is an incompetent commander!

I never said you did, you are just doubting it in general.

I doubt everything that is featless.

Mind explaining how you some how twisted my quote? When we were discussing this, it was over mere fodder. I was stating that in general only a few other than the locust could match them in hand to hand combat. Suggesting the rest wouldn't stand much of a chance. It had nothing to do with GENERAL forces.

Your quote on this.

Considering its always been known that Asgardians are superior to humans in just about every way including weapons though it'd be harder to kill someone due to having to get into close range if they were to use swords and shields never the less, i wouldn't say they were featless at all. I also do recall me saying that all yet besides the locust are extremely low on numbers they barely break the thousands in this op while we got millions on ours..

There aren't even other types of units!!!!! Only the Covenant and Locust are given 'special troops'! You are full of crap right now. I am not spinning anything, I am calling out your mistake! If you want to keep trying to Strawman me, you do that.

Millions of what!? None of your guys showed awesome hand to hand combat ability! None of them! The only ones we can assume would be good in hand to hand are Dark Elves!

Barely, and it does lack range which team 1 could use to their advantage, just like how most of team 2 lacks race on standard arms.

Barely? It is much, much fatter. Even the casing is fatter implying it has more powder crammed in.

Most of team 2? Covenant weaponry is not short ranged. Chimera weaponry is not shorted range. I do not even count the gungans. Luckily for the Drones, this is a fight in a city! Which is short ranged combat.

Notice something? ill leave that with you to decide if you don't ill explain kid.

Ohhhh lords, if you are about to say Armor > Helmets because helmet shape hasn't changed, I am going to laugh till I cry. Cause I just gave you the hard numbers on two modern helmets and armors used by modern day infantry around the world. Hard Numbers > Your interpretation of a picture.

Grunts, drones, and jackals are considered fodder, if they are not then provide proof that they are above that mostly hinting at the jackals.

Fodder? Jackals use ambush tactics. They are not as tough as Elites or Brutes are, this is obvious, but they make up the long ranged specialist of the Covenant, if you are expecting a random passage of 'They are not fodder!' in the middle of a Halo Book then you will be left disappointed, but feel free to show me proof of them being mere fodder.

No, if i was logically a trained soldier I'd take for its head, which has NO PROTECTION. With that in mind do tell me how they would live after a head shot. Now if I was working with a squad of soldiers and i could climb buildings with ease and use my surroundings efficiently then i'd take up a spot to allow me to flank or be behind them and aim for solid mass which means the back which means it'd be shot and they'd find a weak spot within the Chimeran forces. This is just me though how you'd approach it would be most likely different.

... They don't wear armor on their chest, and no, if you were a trained soldier you would aim for center of mass (the body) on reflex.

Assuming I had prior knowledge on them? I would do the same. Try to outflank, but it is such a shame, isn't it? That the Chimera love their ambushes as well. They love to take cover. So... crazy, I know just stay with mere, crazy but... they will be employing same tactics on you!

I never claimed it as an instant win? My team does go commando, as I've shown they use ambushes on new enemy forces please do provide when the Chimera to an new enemy has started off with ambushing and using the environment to its advantage, along with the rest of your team. I'm not claiming they'd be rambo, im suggesting they use different methods of fighting rather than team 2 does. This in my mind would be more effective considering it's rare for team 2 to use such tactics.

Skip to 3:00 "We were ambushed on our way to."

You still watching? An entire assault with one survivor. Nice. The Chimera massacred the American assault.

Uhh... the GoW Drones opened up the war with a massive surprise assault on humanity.

Both of them use cover. Both of them use ambushes. Both of them are intelligent fighters.

The Covenant use cover. The Covenant uses ambushes. The Covenant have the best weapons (besides maybe the Chimera Auger) and shielding technology. Elites have surprising durability.

You have two forces that use ambushes that you have been relying on heavily despite the fact we haven't touched upon normal modern day human helmets stopping LA Aliens rounds.

during this level of the mission if you have ever played GoW, the locust were losing the war as marcus stated that they were losing the war on their own turf. Also if you look up the battles; Battle of Pelruan and First Battle of New Jacinto you will see COG victories along with more as well even in a weakened state. You can claim that the lambent would of won because of blah blah blah, point is the Locust were losing to the Lambent if they were as good as you say they were they shouldn't of been losing..

.... What? You said they lost to Humanity, I said they lost to the Lambent, crazy, but consider this, the humans may have been able to survive so long because the Locust were fighting for their lives against the Lambent! Unless you are trying to spin this around and 'seize the high ground!' with something I already said earlier?

You assume the Lambent aren't as good as normal Locust?

Wrong, the chimera would of lost if the Russians hadn't been so secretive and this took years for them to own Russia, who was terrible at the time period. They also gained all those numbers and launched a zerg rush across europe.. Again proving they wouldn't stand a snowballs chance if they had been noticed by the Europeans and if the countries had ready for war. Also care to show this without in game feats including their weapons since you know u took out the option for me using game feats.

The Russians hadn't been secretive about it. You see in the intro to three that their population had gotten infected so fast there wasn't much they could do about it.

... No... Did you even... Oh my jesus. The Europeans built a large wall to keep the Chimera out! And it worked because the Chimera fell back to build up numbers and tech for a decade and only then did they assault Europe and make it fall in weeks. I would assume during this time they assaulted China, India, and various other nations. You say 'Zerg RUSHHHH!' I say 'BLITZKRIEG!'

The countries were ready for war! They knew the Chimera was on the other side of the wall!

I already showed how their weaponry worked. The auger fires balls of radiation that burrow through concrete and metal! If you understand radiation, it will burn through a human as well.

I showed how the bullseye worked. You said you could provide proof of Chimera going down to a few shots, and I said, awesome! as long as what you show isn't gameplay of the player (which has different difficulties and changes the lore to better suit gameplay) fighting Chimera.

Was this before or after Captain Keyes single handly destroyed an whole entire covenant fleet, or was this before and after Sgt Forge did this to the arbiter at the time..

And when did he do this again? His ship was boarded and destroyed. He had to jump into an escape pod to survive where he was later captured by the Covenant. He was later infected by flood.

Unless by 'destroying the flagship!' of the attacking fleet on Reach that now = destroyed the whole entire covenant fleet! One is impressive. One just never happened. Such a shame that the Covenant have multiple fleets isn't it?

The abandoned ONI base was somehow more intimidating than facing the Covenant invasion force overhead. He had walked down these corridors a dozen times during his training on Reach. This base had always been full of people; now , empty, it drove the point home that the Covenant were winning. First the Outer Colonies had been crushed; now Reach. How long before humanity was forced to retreat all the way back to Earth? And after that . . . what? There would be no other choice but victory or extinction.

Halo: First Strike

See? Covenant were winning.

Yeah.. thats right a normal marine kicked an superior elite's a$$ care to explain how they are suppose to be better than most? I think this puts them on the Chitauri level honestly just look at them get completely wasted.. In addition how about the civilians holding off the covenant army for weeks on end.. Care to explain how they were not getting completely wrecked again?

PIS? The same way a Battlecruiser was killed by a Siege Tank in StarCraft?

Funny, did you notice how none of those elites had Shields?

But how in the hell do you see that as Forge kicking his $@!? Forge put half a clip of his rifle into his chest. Did nothing. Tried to crush him with that large crate. Did nothing. Had to put a clip of pistol ammo into his hand just to get him to let go of the sword. Elite punched him in the stomach once and took the fight out of him. Tossed him into the tire like a child and lifted him up with a single hand. The Arbiter kicked the crap out of Forge. Look at how beaten up he is and look at how untouched the Arbiter was? Yea. Exactly. Forge won thanks to the Arbiter's over-confidence and PIS even with those, the Arbiter beat the crap out of Forge.

I love your enthusiasm though. Adorable.

Yes, and in the end what happens?

The same thing that happens to every alien on your team? In fact, I have the only aliens that won their war. The Gungans! (I am joking with the Gungans)

What? are you confused? No, i was explaining you shot down people's proof like tparks who is this person that you are trying to speak about? Are you talking about me or the person i tried to bring in which was tparks? What i said had nothing to do with me so stop trying to change the subject..

Ah, there we go Tparks, eh whatever, no difference. Uh, YOU are the one who throw this hissy fit about Killer, and me asking someone else to provide proof despite I not caring when you did it and threw this little section off the subject.

Too bad that was a plasma turret not a hand held weapon.

No, but using the power of logical scaling! We can get a grasp on how strong plasma is.

Anything close range can do that.

I was not aware that firing a conventional pistol next to your face would cause it to melt off.

From air which is already discussed would be a loss on team 2, so this is impressive, but not useful in this battle.

Yes it is.

Not impressive really, considering the LA aliens took clips, until the via plot weak spot was found, but before then they were extremely hard to kill

Uh, yes it is. They took a full clip. No matter how you slice it, that is impressive. Their pistol was able to accomplish the same thing! Which is the weapon grunts use!

Care to explain why they hurt again? those slow moving blobs that move at 1 mph could be simply dodged..

Oh, I agree they move slow, but luckily we are in a city which means tight areas which means!!!! Those globs will hurt especially for the slow moving heavies that the Umbarans brings and for people pinned down in cover.

Care to explain how much a Banshee weights? I doubt it weights hardly anything.

A large metal flier weights hardly anything? Even if we assume it weighs as much as a modern car (half ton to a ton) that is still 1,000 to 2,000 pounds that hunter had crash into him and explode on him and he proceeded to not give a single shit.

That was most likely the only time it ever did anything at all.

Oh, Really?

The Chief tossed two plasma grenades. They burned magnesium-brilliant and adhered to the heavy alloy of the bulk-head doors that encased the bridge--one of the alien weapons' more useful properties. He moved around the corner of the pas-sage and shielded Haverson and Polaski.

Five Seconds elapsed, and a flash filled the hallway. The Chief moved back to the doors. They shone mirror-bright where the grenade had detonated but were otherwise unharmed.

A hundred grenades wouldn't have blasted through these doors--but when Covenant plasma grenades detonated, they disrupted electronics and shielding.

Time for MOAH QUOTES!

A flash of plasma fire washed over his shields, blinding him. He ignored it, closed his eyes, and continued to force his way through the door.

-Halo: First Strike

Proof of cover!

The video from a helmet camera showed a dozen SPARAN IIIS limping and falling on a smoldering landscape of twisted metal. There was no unit cohesion. No two-man teams covering one another. In the heat-blurred background, Elites took up superior positions with good cover.

-Halo: Ghosts of Oynx

"The dropship digorged another contingent of troops -- including a trio of Jackals. Their distinctive, glowing shields flared as Sergeant Johnson's men opened fire. Bullets rico-cheted as the birdlike aliens crouched behind their protective devices, like medieval footmen forming a shield wall.

Behind them, more Grunts and a blue Elite spread out in an enveloping formation. It was a good tactic, particularly if there were more dropships inbound. Eventually, the Covenant would wear down the Marine defenses and overrun the position."

-Halo: the Flood

More on Wraith fire power. Note they are firing wraiths at the covenant.

In unison the Spartans turned and fired at the far corner of the formation of tanks. Two blue-white blobs of liquid sun spat from the Wraiths and detonated. There was a dazzling light, and expansion of superheated white fire-- and then there was glass-smooth ground and the smoldering skeletons of seven Wraith tanks.

Halo: First Strike

Kelly shot arcing projectiles into the hundreds of Grunts and Jackals running in every direction. Bodies charred midstride and turned to vapor. It was as if a dozen lightning bolts had struck in the center of the camp.

Halo: First Strike

Covenant plasma fire, note this was a Spartan III. Much tougher then a human.

"Robert caught a blot of plasma in the stomach--it stuck there, burning through his SPI armor like paper. Screaming, he managed to reload and spray his MA5B on full auto at the elite who had shot him. TEAMBIO showed his heart in full arrest, but he still grabbed a grenade, pulled the pin, and lobbed it at the enemy fire team . . .and then he fell."

-Halo Ghosts of Oynx

More on handheld Covenant plasma

"He grunted and kept forcing the plasma rifle down until it was aimed at Kincaide's feet. He pulled the trigger, and a burst of white-hot plasma destroyed the Insurrectionist's leg and threw Keyes back, still holding the rifle. Concrete bubbled where they'd stood, and Keyes felt the legs of his uniforms burning. He patted the fires out quickly, and looked nack ay Kincaide. The man had lost his left leg, blown clean off at the thigh. He'd been shot in the shoulder and chest. Yet now he had a small pistol in his right hand, lifting it up to point it a Keyes with determination in his glazed eyes. Without hesitation, Keyes blew the Insurrectionist's head off his body with a burst of plasma."

-Halo:Cole Protocol

Some more!

"Fred squeezed, and he could feel the alien's bones shatter. The plasma pistol discharged in a bright, emerald flash. The Jackal flopped over on its back, minus its head."

-Halo: First strike

Needler

The surviving Elites recovered and fired.

Adam fell, one hand clutched at the crystal shards that penetrated his armor and punctured his lower spine.

-Halo Ghosts of Oynx

Except their team as that much better than them besides of course gungans whom are way worse of an ally.

Uh, no. The only one I agreed was better was the Umbarans. I don't even count the gungans. As far as I am concerned this is a 4v3.

This is right the problem is they hardly ambush and the one whom is known to do it DOESN'T GOT UNDERGROUND SPIDERS to help them this time, thus taking that tactic out of the book for the locust. In total would they be able to ambush or flank their enemies? Yes will it be as effective as team 1 and as much, no.

Save for the fact one of the comic scans I showed had the Locust ambushing them on the surface. Again, Umbarans are the best here at employing ambushes and outflanks, but they are not that much better then the rest to make it a large difference!

fair enough, but they still carry them and those two weren't the only ones stated there's been plenty in the game play version of the Umbarans.

Out of the numerous battles they fight against the clones, we only seem them use it once, I doubt they have many, but they will be effective when deployed.

I would ask the OP maker how many they have to clear it up.

Gameplay versions?

Difference is they are packing more damaging weapons than team 2 is. These weapons including missiles can be used to destroy the enemies on the ground.

Based on... what? Their lasers are better then a low-yield rocket.

No one on team 2 has that as their standard gear besides maybe the boomers and hunters and theirs I'm not seeing as being more effective than that. In conclusion they are not going to destroy those walkers allow them free reign on the battlefield.

Uh, Augers will dig through the armor on virtue of them being radiation.

A direct wraith artillery shot would hurt, and I do not believe the walker is fast enough to dodge especially considering many streets of LA are going to be hard for the walker to move in.

You know it helps when you actually play back to the person so i don't have to scroll down all this..

They can be hurt by the aliens in physical combat, a shame that there isn't really anyone on your team who is great at physical combat. The only one who may be are the Dark Elves if we assume movie ones are a match for Asgardians in every way.

Very long against team 1's weapons? You mean like the LA Aliens whose weaponry failed to pierce a normal modern day helmet? Right. Impressive.

It's a shame hardly any of ur team has h2h feats, i've yet to see that locust h2h feats that i had asked, and like wise with the covenant especially those grunts and jackals please do say how they will stop someone way taller and stronger than them from team 2.

That one showing doesn't mean jack considering their weapons did kill them and their rockets could kill at least three marines in close quarters. As stated they have insane durability as well.. just in case you doubt it..

O look my aliens can take hits too as well and have to be pumped full of lead to be killed as well..

This can allow them to hit or do back shots better than the humans in resistance? And your proof of this is where?

Lol a couple of shots. Oh my lord, you sir, are hilarious. A minigun fires 2,000 to 6,000 rounds a minute. You can cut down trees with them! How in the hell do you not say that is 'pumped full of lead?' They were taking so many bullets they were coming apart! It was blowing chunks off of them! Did you live in your own world!?

*Facepalm* Oh my lord, one picture of them assaulting a position means, LOL THEY SWARM!!!! ignoring all previous evidence of them utilizing ambush tactics. You are seriously grasping now.

Yes considering if you ever watched the movie u can see first encounter they basically had the plot squad on the run the whole time in the beginning what makes u think they wouldn't do better against 3 aliens who struggled against humanity on the ground?! Especially locust and covenant ill assume you say some silly remark saying that grunts can some how tank more rounds or that they are stronger than humans..

Move proof that your Chimera still being killed with weapons..

Dies from blunt force drama by a nade.. interesting one of my team IIRC has a pretty good nade that is better than human's so..

Anyway there isnt much proof even with their weapons that they can do what you say I'm beginning to think you just choose to ignore game play because you feel they should be better..

I asked for proof of your so called 'outdated' weaponry as you were trying to imply that Chimera are chumps for going down to weaponry from the '1950s'. I have called you on this crap more then a few times. Then you post a minigun and try to claim that I said they couldn't go down to normal weaponry, which I never said?

And i gave it you never said what it had to be you said they "had" to be pumped full of lead in order to die.. Minigun or not shouldn't matter if u notice their head gets cut clean off too bad my team packs armor and weapons that could possibly do this a bunch..

You do not recall correct as that quote came from a random guy in an intel file. We never meet him, so we have no idea who he is.

... What? He never said he could do it in or out of an ambush. He says IF quite a bit in that quote.

No, again, cockroaches are insanely durable. They are hard to kill, hard to get rid of, hard to really defeat. Chimera are cockroaches to this guy. They just won't stay down.

Wrong, if i was to step on a cockroach what would happen? In fact if i stepped on ten what would happen? Yeah, that's right so again my interruption is correct. Further more i was right that he was a minuteman mite wanna do some more research..

Any of them that didn't go incomptent? Save for the Gungan?

Ohhh you mean that lightning that Thor shot for a grand total of five minutes after which he started running around and hitting things with his hammer? Great job on that Portal Thor!

They were focusing on the Avengers! They did not go out of a small tiny area! They did not even try to split up the guys who were killing them like mooks! They were just swarming into their killzones! No planning! No tactics! Loki is an incompetent commander!

lol Loki wasn't in charge of those forces if you ever watched the movie you would know that he was suppose to open the portal. The never expected humanity to put up a defense and to be fair they most likely wouldn't of. As i said unlike your foes mine was beaten by an extremely well trained force. Your armies wouldn't even have a snowball's chance against the avengers. Loki did his job and he did it quite fine actually he is a far better leader than yours UNLESS you can state otherwise.. Khan wiping out a lot of humanity right after a war and with years of planning on top of the element of surprise isn't necessary that impressive.

There aren't even other types of units!!!!! Only the Covenant and Locust are given 'special troops'! You are full of crap right now. I am not spinning anything, I am calling out your mistake! If you want to keep trying to Strawman me, you do that.

Seriously? nice cut out the part where I left out talking about melee attacks.. aka the dark elves and asgardians they were connected if I was treating them separate i would of make two separate lines or paragraphs, nice try though.

Millions of what!? None of your guys showed awesome hand to hand combat ability! None of them! The only ones we can assume would be good in hand to hand are Dark Elves!

Funny majority of team 2 can be said the same.. no feats proven thus no h2h experience thus would't fair any better against my forces.

Barely? It is much, much fatter. Even the casing is fatter implying it has more powder crammed in.

Most of team 2? Covenant weaponry is not short ranged. Chimera weaponry is not shorted range. I do not even count the gungans. Luckily for the Drones, this is a fight in a city! Which is short ranged combat.

O is that so, so when you see this happening down the street we just gotta assume their going to be 10ft from each other rather than that distance in between? Ah nice to know.

Ohhhh lords, if you are about to say Armor > Helmets because helmet shape hasn't changed, I am going to laugh till I cry. Cause I just gave you the hard numbers on two modern helmets and armors used by modern day infantry around the world. Hard Numbers > Your interpretation of a picture.

Nope the helmet doesn't protect the face.. again something two of your team completely lacks aka gungans and Chimera. On top of that locust barely wear any so ill say they don't completely wear any, and the covenant is the only one who can be considered to wearing protective head gear for SOME of the races within it. Another question what you see in these pictures.

Want to explain why helmets matter so much and keep bringing that low a$$ feat i can keep doing the same thing with sgt forge or hey lets bring up some more.

Can't and unable to even aim point blank range and hit their target, interesting how i just said this a tiny bit earlier.

Gets taken down by a marine, interesting again..

Being taken down by like two shots.

Want to keep telling me how that helmet really matters when you "elites" can some how tank SO much more..

Skip to 3:00 "We were ambushed on our way to."

You still watching? An entire assault with one survivor. Nice. The Chimera massacred the American assault.

Uhh... the GoW Drones opened up the war with a massive surprise assault on humanity.

Both of them use cover. Both of them use ambushes. Both of them are intelligent fighters.

The Covenant use cover. The Covenant uses ambushes. The Covenant have the best weapons (besides maybe the Chimera Auger) and shielding technology. Elites have surprising durability.

You have two forces that use ambushes that you have been relying on heavily despite the fact we haven't touched upon normal modern day human helmets stopping LA Aliens rounds.

lol an ambush in bum f*ck no where, so impressive indeed. As i explained the locust basically cheap shotted humanity and still couldn't kill them, and it took them 15 years to finally figure out that they can just sink the cities instead excellent plan. Furthermore proof of them ambushing without the spiders?

Two of my forces ambush the third one can lay waste to your forces. I'm sure they could work out something more effective the dark elves are more than willing to work with their allies on that. On top of having the Chitauri tank their hits for their team.

I've yet to see you say how that their air power wouldn't be able to even scout and set up traps more effective than the enemy's team due to the dark elf's ships being invisible, and would be excellent scout ships.

.... What? You said they lost to Humanity, I said they lost to the Lambent, crazy, but consider this, the humans may have been able to survive so long because the Locust were fighting for their lives against the Lambent! Unless you are trying to spin this around and 'seize the high ground!' with something I already said earlier?

You assume the Lambent aren't as good as normal Locust?

You need to read before. I said humanity beat the locust, you said humanity didn't they lost the lambent. I said it wouldn't of mattered the humans were already winning due to important events such as the lightmass bomb. On top of that you claimed to ask for proof on how humanity did better against the lambent than the locust leading to me showing that proof that you can choose to look up or simply ignore. Regardless humanity did beat the locust horde, for in the end who was the last one standing?..

The Russians hadn't been secretive about it. You see in the intro to three that their population had gotten infected so fast there wasn't much they could do about it.

... No... Did you even... Oh my jesus. The Europeans built a large wall to keep the Chimera out! And it worked because the Chimera fell back to build up numbers and tech for a decade and only then did they assault Europe and make it fall in weeks. I would assume during this time they assaulted China, India, and various other nations. You say 'Zerg RUSHHHH!' I say 'BLITZKRIEG!'

The countries were ready for war! They knew the Chimera was on the other side of the wall!

I already showed how their weaponry worked. The auger fires balls of radiation that burrow through concrete and metal! If you understand radiation, it will burn through a human as well.

I showed how the bullseye worked. You said you could provide proof of Chimera going down to a few shots, and I said, awesome! as long as what you show isn't gameplay of the player (which has different difficulties and changes the lore to better suit gameplay) fighting Chimera.

Yes i did, they expanded it took them years of prep to invade Europe and win.. You claimed they just basically landed wiped all human life within months. Too bad the humans didn't have shield technology to which the umbarans got on their armor which can deflect your chimeran rounds..

And when did he do this again? His ship was boarded and destroyed. He had to jump into an escape pod to survive where he was later captured by the Covenant. He was later infected by flood.

Unless by 'destroying the flagship!' of the attacking fleet on Reach that now = destroyed the whole entire covenant fleet! One is impressive. One just never happened. Such a shame that the Covenant have multiple fleets isn't it?

what does the flood have anything to do with this? Either way it took the flood to stop keyes NOT the covenant. On top of that i loved how you dodged my fgt statement as well.

See? Covenant were winning.

View point from 1 man doesn't mean they were winning.

PIS? The same way a Battlecruiser was killed by a Siege Tank in StarCraft?

Funny, did you notice how none of those elites had Shields?

But how in the hell do you see that as Forge kicking his $@!? Forge put half a clip of his rifle into his chest. Did nothing. Tried to crush him with that large crate. Did nothing. Had to put a clip of pistol ammo into his hand just to get him to let go of the sword. Elite punched him in the stomach once and took the fight out of him. Tossed him into the tire like a child and lifted him up with a single hand. The Arbiter kicked the crap out of Forge. Look at how beaten up he is and look at how untouched the Arbiter was? Yea. Exactly. Forge won thanks to the Arbiter's over-confidence and PIS even with those, the Arbiter beat the crap out of Forge.

I love your enthusiasm though. Adorable.

What does Starcraft have to do with this? Try dodging those feats up top as well..Keep claiming PIS all you want its fact and canon deal with it.. Forge won fair and square in the end who was left standing?

The same thing that happens to every alien on your team? In fact, I have the only aliens that won their war. The Gungans! (I am joking with the Gungans)

Wrong asgardians killed the dark elf race. Two gods and human scientist defeated a squad of elves and their leader whom without suffering from a plot device could of won.. Funny the only one who suffered from this was the Chimera. Locust were already losing hint why they went savage, covenant empire surrendered to the humans, and the gungans lost to battle droids even worse than humans.. Please do go on though explaining on how my races again sucked even worse.

Ah, there we go Tparks, eh whatever, no difference. Uh, YOU are the one who throw this hissy fit about Killer, and me asking someone else to provide proof despite I not caring when you did it and threw this little section off the subject.

Fact is I didn't throw a hissy fit i wanted your opinion instead of his, I got his feats on what he stated in the locust thread you just seem so sure about the halo aspect that I proof from YOU not him.

No, but using the power of logical scaling! We can get a grasp on how strong plasma is.

Which is again how powerful?

I was not aware that firing a conventional pistol next to your face would cause it to melt off.

You're right they can't melt a face off, but they can still kill an elite, grunt, brute, etc with a simple SHOT to the face.

Yes it is.

Explain.

Uh, yes it is. They took a full clip. No matter how you slice it, that is impressive. Their pistol was able to accomplish the same thing! Which is the weapon grunts use!

Not really, considering again bullets wont be used here, and everyone on team 2 has weapons on par or greater than the human weapons that team 2 suffered from and died to. The only one i'd say that could be considered the weapon is the Battle: LA aliens, yet they still got rockets, and those walking machines that would lite up troops in the area with much of a problem.

Oh, I agree they move slow, but luckily we are in a city which means tight areas which means!!!! Those globs will hurt especially for the slow moving heavies that the Umbarans brings and for people pinned down in cover.

Really? considering 2 out of team two's forces can scale buildings like nothing, and two of the others move at a decent pace i doubt they will make a hint at all.

A large metal flier weights hardly anything? Even if we assume it weighs as much as a modern car (half ton to a ton) that is still 1,000 to 2,000 pounds that hunter had crash into him and explode on him and he proceeded to not give a single shit.

Cool what a nice guess considering we can only GUESS their weight..

Oh, Really?

What does this prove again it proves that the covenant nade is a different type of damage not that it is better. Read the actual quote that you are posting.

Proof of cover!

Nice something my team already does.. Also they don't need jackals to provide cover they can FIND IT THEMSELVES

More on Wraith fire power. Note they are firing wraiths at the covenant.

good shows the covenant can't beat humans again.. even with more numbers.

Covenant plasma fire, note this was a Spartan III. Much tougher then a human.

good start, no hand to hand combat feats yet i see.

More on handheld Covenant plasma

This proves what? that plasma can blow off a leg, something our weapons can do?

Some more!

Something our weapons can do again..

Needler

This did what again, did it actually kill him or did he walk off..

Uh, no. The only one I agreed was better was the Umbarans. I don't even count the gungans. As far as I am concerned this is a 4v3.

Great! now that we got this problem settled that is a 4v3. I conclude as this whole debate had began over was that the 3 I feel can't carry hard enough to over power and win against the 4.

Save for the fact one of the comic scans I showed had the Locust ambushing them on the surface. Again, Umbarans are the best here at employing ambushes and outflanks, but they are not that much better then the rest to make it a large difference!

They don't need to they just need to match one of the factions the other THREE can take on the other TWO.

Out of the numerous battles they fight against the clones, we only seem them use it once, I doubt they have many, but they will be effective when deployed.

I would ask the OP maker how many they have to clear it up.

Gameplay versions?

Yes the game called should play it sometimes..

Your right, we need to op to state how many each of them get.

Uh, Augers will dig through the armor on virtue of them being radiation.

A direct wraith artillery shot would hurt, and I do not believe the walker is fast enough to dodge especially considering many streets of LA are going to be hard for the walker to move in.

Too bad they won't get past the shields. If they some how did this might sound crazy, yet I do believe Umbaran metal isnt the same as HUMAN metal, I know you love to group up your metals together. Just try though just try not to so much.

@aressword: Sorry about that. I must have deleted the @ when I was formatting the quote. Killer just told me tonight that you replied. I will reply to you in the morrow.

Again, I apologize for the delay.

@aressword: I was going to reply tomorrow, but your arrogance offends me, so I shall do so now.

It's a shame hardly any of ur team has h2h feats, i've yet to see that locust h2h feats that i had asked, and like wise with the covenant especially those grunts and jackals please do say how they will stop someone way taller and stronger than them from team 2.

That one showing doesn't mean jack considering their weapons did kill them and their rockets could kill at least three marines in close quarters. As stated they have insane durability as well.. just in case you doubt it..

That one showing does mean jack. Believe it or not. The fact that a helmet stopped it means the penetration on that weapon is not the best given that when a modern day helmet stops a 7.62 round it is considered extraordinarily lucky.

Please feel free to point out to me when I said grunts and jackals are going to break out the incredible hand to hand skills. I believe I said Elites and Brutes.

Their weapon also failed to kill them which cast doubts on both its armor penetration (which does matter in the cast of the Elites and Hunters). I would hope to god a rocket could kill at least three people standing close together, would be rather sad if it didn't, no?

I never said they didn't have great durability? I called to point that no one else on your team has great durability particularly the Umbarans.

Yes considering if you ever watched the movie u can see first encounter they basically had the plot squad on the run the whole time in the beginning what makes u think they wouldn't do better against 3 aliens who struggled against humanity on the ground?! Especially locust and covenant ill assume you say some silly remark saying that grunts can some how tank more rounds or that they are stronger than humans..

Move proof that your Chimera still being killed with weapons..

3 Aliens who struggled against humanity? Uh, no. Elites and brutes struggled with the Spartans. Chimera, as I have demonstrated over. and over. and over again easily crushed humanity and had them on the brink of extinction but they won because of plot shields. The same tool you are trying to use to deflect that fact that their rounds was stopped by a normal modern day human helmet, which as I quote you from earlier, are meant to stop shrapnel.

You can assume all you want, I never said grunts were stronger then humans or more durable, but please, if trying to attack my credibility makes you think it creates some kind of point (it doesn't by the way and doing so is a logical fallacy), then please, do keep going.

Sorry, I was busy pounding my head onto the wall. Please, please, for the love of god, show me where I said they couldn't be killed by weapons?

What I did was call you out on your bs when you stated Chimera die to outdated weaponry because it is the 1950s! Thus, somehow, in your mind you tried to spin that as them not being impressive. This is ignoring the fact that the basic human side arm they are using against them is a .44 revolver with High Explosive rounds that can be detonated at the shooters whim! Does that sound 'outdated' to you!?

Did you even read the bloody evidence you posted! Grenade Explosion and impact WITH A TRUCK! He tanked a grenade and then was smashed by a truck! Point to me where one of your guys are taking that and walking away.

They point out that they can take massive amounts of trauma! Who has awesome grenades? The Dark Elf grenades were taken away from them, unless you are referring to the Chitauri, and then I point out their incompetence as they used it once and despite the fact they were getting massacred by people on the ground. Chucking a few of those grenades would have helped, huh? Guess Chitauri just don't like doing that. Not their style.

And i gave it you never said what it had to be you said they "had" to be pumped full of lead in order to die.. Minigun or not shouldn't matter if u notice their head gets cut clean off too bad my team packs armor and weapons that could possibly do this a bunch..

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Oh my god, hahahaha. Yes... because what you just said now makes sooooo much sense.

"Dying to a few bullets" I call you on your shit. Miniguns fire a lot of bullets incredibly fast. Said bullets were blow chunks from peoples bodies!

Feel free to show your teams weapons blowing massive chunks from people.

Anyway there isnt much proof even with their weapons that they can do what you say I'm beginning to think you just choose to ignore game play because you feel they should be better..

What was that sparky? You are mad because I won't let you use gameplay as evidence of lore capability? Seriously?

"A Chimeran rifle capable of shooting high-energy bolts that burn through solid objects, and increase in power by doing so. Effective at medium range. Ideal for attacking enemies hiding behind cover." Intel File

"Hey Guys, Santa came early!

I have a new toy and it's called the "Auger". Because it can drill a hole through just about anything. Get it? I took it off a dead stink, aimed it at a wall, and got a big surprise - thanks to some kind of high tech sight I could see an outline of a guy on the other side of it. But it gets better... This puppy can shoot through walls too! I gave Joe quite a scare.

After that we went out to give the Auger a test drive and discovered that is has a secondary fire mode as well. It creates a temporary energy barrier that is impervious to all projectiles except Auger rounds. So this weapon will be useful for reconnaissance as well as offensive and defensive purposes.

We're having a hard time finding ammo for the new toy though--so wel'll have to use it sparingly.

Never give up, and never give in.

- Rick

Right. I am just making stuff up.

Wrong, if i was to step on a cockroach what would happen? In fact if i stepped on ten what would happen? Yeah, that's right so again my interruption is correct. Further more i was right that he was a minuteman mite wanna do some more research..

What species would survive a nuclear war? What species can survive weeks without their heads? If you said cockroach, you would be correct!

lol Loki wasn't in charge of those forces if you ever watched the movie you would know that he was suppose to open the portal. The never expected humanity to put up a defense and to be fair they most likely wouldn't of. As i said unlike your foes mine was beaten by an extremely well trained force. Your armies wouldn't even have a snowball's chance against the avengers. Loki did his job and he did it quite fine actually he is a far better leader than yours UNLESS you can state otherwise.. Khan wiping out a lot of humanity right after a war and with years of planning on top of the element of surprise isn't necessary that impressive.

Right. Loki strutting around the top of a tower as his men got bottled up is the sign of military genius that is far beyond someone using a massive surprise attack to ripe out 90% of humanity. Cause that makes sense.

Ah, no. He called it, "My army" numerous times. Part of the deal was they would loan him the army, and he would use it to conquer Earth in a 'Glorious' battle.

Seriously? nice cut out the part where I left out talking about melee attacks.. aka the dark elves and asgardians they were connected if I was treating them separate i would of make two separate lines or paragraphs, nice try though.

Uh, it is below. But nice way to ignore all of that. Smooth. You are right, I am so super sneaky I separated two different topics from each other, dear god! I am trying to slip one by you by putting it RIGHT BENEATH! Cause that makes sense.

Funny majority of team 2 can be said the same.. no feats proven thus no h2h experience thus would't fair any better against my forces.

Covenant have hand to hand feats. I already posted one about Elites tangoing with the Chief who easily dispatched humans like mooks without his armor and as a boy, thus Elites have feats. A brute slammed chief against a wall and nearly killed him had he not snapped his knife in the back of its head at the base of its spine.

Seems I can't find normal locust drones and chimera fighting in hand to hand. (There is one short one in number one where a Chimera grabs a human and yanks him towards him with one hand easily overpowering him, but that isn't really skill just strength.)

But Elites/Brutes and Hunters can which is better then nothing.

O is that so, so when you see this happening down the street we just gotta assume their going to be 10ft from each other rather than that distance in between? Ah nice to know.

For the love of any respect I have for you as a competent debater who looks for a debate to find the truth instead of an attempt to strawman everyone until he feels super smart, please tell me you did not just say Locust weaponry has a maximum effective range of 10ft? Because if you seriously just did, I am done with you. Like. Permanently. Because I have put up with your strawmaning for awhile, but this takes the cake.

Nope the helmet doesn't protect the face.. again something two of your team completely lacks aka gungans and Chimera. On top of that locust barely wear any so ill say they don't completely wear any, and the covenant is the only one who can be considered to wearing protective head gear for SOME of the races within it. Another question what you see in these pictures.

Chimera trust in their regeneration to keep them alive (and they don't care about the single chimera to make manufacturing helmets viable). I just showed you a scan of a Locust missing half his face, and he kept coming. I don't think not having a helmet matters to this guy.

Wait. Wait. Wait. You demanded proof that helmets are thicker then body armor. I proved this. You are now trying to steer the conversation to helmets not protecting the face thus making them irrelevant? Are... Strawman. God you love it.

Want to explain why helmets matter so much and keep bringing that low a$$ feat i can keep doing the same thing with sgt forge or hey lets bring up some more.

Low ass feat? IN THEIR ONLY SHOWING! You can't claim low showing and PIS if it is the onlyshowing!

Do you have a short term memory or something? You already did with Sgt. Forge. I called it out. Forge got his behind whooped.

Helmets matter because they... you know... protect the brain, although, if you seriously, and I mean seriously, just tried to compare a combat helmet to a space suit helmet which is designed for a totally different purpose... honestly, I don't even know what I am going to do with you anymore.

Can't and unable to even aim point blank range and hit their target, interesting how i just said this a tiny bit earlier.

Check 0:19 love. Elite shot once. Hit once and killed the marine. Marines praying and spraying... not doing anything.

Gets taken down by a marine, interesting again..

One who, apparently, was really broke and couldn't afford shields like every other elite.

Being taken down by like two shots.

Want to keep telling me how that helmet really matters when you "elites" can some how tank SO much more..

Have you noticed that none of the elites in Halo Wars cutscenes have shields?

But of course you are right. How dare I bring up the one showing of Umbarans against them! It is not like the Covenant have multiple showings and so it is responsible to toss out low PIS induced showings. Silly Wut, that isn't how we do things.

lol an ambush in bum f*ck no where, so impressive indeed. As i explained the locust basically cheap shotted humanity and still couldn't kill them, and it took them 15 years to finally figure out that they can just sink the cities instead excellent plan. Furthermore proof of them ambushing without the spiders?

Considering the fact they had to find them in bum f*ck no where, yes, impressive.

The aliens from Battle LA bascially cheap shotted humanity, but you talk them up like they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Spiders? You mean the spires? Here you go:

You need to read before. I said humanity beat the locust, you said humanity didn't they lost the lambent. I said it wouldn't of mattered the humans were already winning due to important events such as the lightmass bomb. On top of that you claimed to ask for proof on how humanity did better against the lambent than the locust leading to me showing that proof that you can choose to look up or simply ignore. Regardless humanity did beat the locust horde, for in the end who was the last one standing?..

You mean the lightmass bomb that destroyed the last human city? The one that only worked because the Locust had been forced back to their own last stronghold by the Lambent? Right. Makes sense.

I mean, it is not like the Lambent are infected Locust or anything which means should the Lambent have not been around, they would have been fighting Locust and not Lambent in GOW 3.

The last one standing after a PIS induced plot fueled bomb? Again, how does that pertain to this debate? Unless you are, once again, implying your side are going to construct the same thing?

Yes i did, they expanded it took them years of prep to invade Europe and win.. You claimed they just basically landed wiped all human life within months. Too bad the humans didn't have shield technology to which the umbarans got on their armor which can deflect your chimeran rounds..

A shame the rest of their vehicles don't have shields on them. I mean, it is not they have delicate electronics that power the machine behind those lovely metal plates right?

Really? Russians fell incredibly quickly. Europeans built as massive wall, the Chimera chilled and built up their strength as they had nothing! They had to build all their weapons! Which takes time! Once they had it, they launched their invasion. Unlike your team who already, lucky for them, had all their gear with them and ready to launch their invasion, the Chimera had to build up their crap first. This is not a 'Lols weak' this is a, 'Believe it or not, it takes time to fashion weaponry, arm soldiers, and build vehicles.'

Resistance 1 even says they had prepared for the Chimera! They fell despite that.

what does the flood have anything to do with this? Either way it took the flood to stop keyes NOT the covenant. On top of that i loved how you dodged my fgt statement as well.

Uh... what? ..... Are... Are you serious? You just came in here sprouting out right lies about Keyes soloing a covenant fleet which he never did. I call your bs and point out what he did do, and now you are trying to spin that as me going off topic? Are you serious? How many times have you done that in this debate alone? I have honestly lost count.

fgt statement? I talked about that. Arbiter smacked him around and lost thanks to PIS and overconfidence.

What does Starcraft have to do with this? Try dodging those feats up top as well..Keep claiming PIS all you want its fact and canon deal with it.. Forge won fair and square in the end who was left standing?

Lol wait, so if two guys were fighting and one guy beat the crap out of the other guy, and a random car hit him and killed him, the guy who got beat up won fair and square because, 'in the end, he was left standing'? Right. That makes sense. I mean, who needs feats and context? Those are for other people who use logic to determine a characters strength. We use blind zeal and strawman arguments, HUZZAH!

Wrong asgardians killed the dark elf race. Two gods and human scientist defeated a squad of elves and their leader whom without suffering from a plot device could of won.. Funny the only one who suffered from this was the Chimera. Locust were already losing hint why they went savage, covenant empire surrendered to the humans, and the gungans lost to battle droids even worse than humans.. Please do go on though explaining on how my races again sucked even worse.

Human scientist. LOL right. Because those interns were supah smart. I mean, it is not like the only scientist there had just been in an insane asylum or anything.

Suffered a plot deviece? You mean like the Locust who after smashing humanity, the makes came out and said, "Whoa! You thought wrong! The Locust are just getting pushed out by the Lambent who are diseased Locust!" Right. Makes sense.

Covenant empire entered a truce with humanity. No one surrendered. Nice try though.

Chitauri - bottled up and defeated because they weren't smart enough to spread out and use superior numbers to their advantage.

Dark Elfs - Constantly forgot about their ships ability to go invisible. Their great scheme defeated by a half-mad scientist and really dumb interns with weather rods. Nice.

Battle LA - Defeated because they put all the controls for their forces in one location. Very smart.

Umbarans - Defeated by clones who had a commander trying to get them killed. Nice. (Honestly, this is more props to the troopers then anything.)

And... how... exactly does this effect the debate?

Fact is I didn't throw a hissy fit i wanted your opinion instead of his, I got his feats on what he stated in the locust thread you just seem so sure about the halo aspect that I proof from YOU not him.

I didn't ask his opinion. I asked him to show feats. The thing about feats is they don't care about the opinions around them. They are what they are.

Again, I don't care what YOU want. If you get feats, you get feats. It doesn't matter who writes them only that they are given.

Really? considering 2 out of team two's forces can scale buildings like nothing, and two of the others move at a decent pace i doubt they will make a hint at all.

... O.o I hope they would see things climbing up the side of buildings. Kinda... obvious.

Cool what a nice guess considering we can only GUESS their weight..

Halo 1: Combat Evolved manual says Banshees weigh 2.25 tons. Seems I low-balled them.

http://halo.bungie.net/images/games/halo/about/xbox_manual.pdf

Which is again how powerful?

Titanium has a melting point of 3k degrees. Plasma melts titanium thus is over 3k. Killer has a feat that puts them at 5k. If you so desire, I shall get it from him again.

What does this prove again it proves that the covenant nade is a different type of damage not that it is better. Read the actual quote that you are posting.

Uh, no. It has a large enough radius to easily cover a Covenant door. Melting it and destroying the electronics in it. Earlier on blew apart an entire squad.

You should be able to connect dots on your own.

Nice something my team already does.. Also they don't need jackals to provide cover they can FIND IT THEMSELVES

So can they. But when you are in the middle of the street and out in the open, it pays to have someone in front of you who can instantly deploy cover.

Options are nice to have.

good shows the covenant can't beat humans again.. even with more numbers.

Nice attempt to throw out all the feats of Wraiths which are impressive, but I won't let that fly.

good start, no hand to hand combat feats yet i see.

*Looks at a great weapon feat* >.> <.< >.> <.< "No hand to hand I see.... >.>"

Way to ignore it brah.

This proves what? that plasma can blow off a leg, something our weapons can do?

Not our pistols.

Something our weapons can do again..

Honestly, at this point, I am not sure if you are debating or just ignoring everything and refusing to see reason or logic so long as you 'win'.

This did what again, did it actually kill him or did he walk off..

LOL Yea, you try walking when your SPINE gets pierced. See how it goes.

Great! now that we got this problem settled that is a 4v3. I conclude as this whole debate had began over was that the 3 I feel can't carry hard enough to over power and win against the 4.

It is like you are trying to act like this is some huge achievement or landmark. I never debated like it was anything but.

That is great. I feel that they can.

They don't need to they just need to match one of the factions the other THREE can take on the other TWO.

No. No, they can't.

Three is a bigger number then two, I am glad you realize this, but I believe the quality out does the quantity.

Yes the game called

Huh, a clone wars MMO. Wish I had known about that sooner.

Too bad they won't get past the shields. If they some how did this might sound crazy, yet I do believe Umbaran metal isnt the same as HUMAN metal, I know you love to group up your metals together. Just try though just try not to so much.

I don't group up my metals, but nice try love. Strawman it! Strawman it harder!

Proof that Umbaran metal is super awesome compared to human? (If you mean stop the auger, it fires transient radiation the stuff that comes from Nukes which means density is more important then tensile strength) No, tanking a rocket is not superior. Modern day tanks easily eat low yield rockets all the time.

BUMP!

Not a problem, but i see you went a head and begun. Lets make this simple.

1. What the pictures I posted had to do was simple and basic. It'd most likely be easier to punch and break the glass that is covering the head of the astronaut rather than punching his suit until it opened up. That was the point I was trying to get you to focus on. Due to the texture of the suit they were wearing I doubt a simple punch would break it.

In addition does that mean a knife could cut it, yes it could along with some of the weapons that team 2 carries. If you can accept this statement and or statements that would be fine. If you can not accept those statements whatever, we move on.

2 When I said thousands i meant it.. Only thousands have shown valid hand to hand feats, while ALL of mine have, by default mine are the better of this. I did not claim that a umbaran would out muscle a Chimera or that a Chitauri would own an Elite or Brute is that understood? What i did say was the fodder of ALL of the factions would most likely lose to my troop's hand to hand combat. I never claimed it was a stomp nor have ever claimed they'd mop the floors against the armies on team 2.

3 Team 1 out number you and have shown superior tactics YOU DID ADMIT THIS and thus in a 3 vs 4 fight I can conclude that their weapons to be a match for those on team 2. To add to this with equal tech OR superior they will never the less be able to out do them on the battle field through superior tactics and strategy against them. This was my main point and reasons why team 1 would win. You throwing these hiss fits about me showing you just how silly your forces can be doesn't support nor help your cause either.

4 I will not be able to conclude just how effective the Umbarans will for now because of @killerwasp not having given us the last bit of information we will need. Believe it or not if he allows a decent amount of those robotic bugs this will tip the edge into team 1's favor even more.

In conclusion for the reasons I've listed in the points that have been made up above is the reason why team 1 will be the winner in this conflict.

What the pictures I posted had to do was simple and basic. It'd most likely be easier to punch and break the glass that is covering the head of the astronaut rather than punching his suit until it opened up. That was the point I was trying to get you to focus on. Due to the texture of the suit they were wearing I doubt a simple punch would break it.

In addition does that mean a knife could cut it, yes it could along with some of the weapons that team 2 carries. If you can accept this statement and or statements that would be fine. If you can not accept those statements whatever, we move on.

The Umbaran face was covered by a force field of some kind because, apparently, they could not breath the air. Making it incredibly thin is just a bad idea, grant, this could happen.

That was the entire point. If their helmet could be pierced by a punch that means their armor is not going to be able to take much simply from scaling and reasonable assumptions based from the shown durability of their helmet which makes them rather fragile.

When I said thousands i meant it.. Only thousands have shown valid hand to hand feats, while ALL of mine have, by default mine are the better of this. I did not claim that a umbaran would out muscle a Chimera or that a Chitauri would own an Elite or Brute is that understood? What i did say was the fodder of ALL of the factions would most likely lose to my troop's hand to hand combat. I never claimed it was a stomp nor have ever claimed they'd mop the floors against the armies on team 2.

The umbaran's only feat in hand to hand is losing to clones in hand to hand. Not... really a feat that proves their dominance over anyone else. I do not recall mook dark elfs doing anything great in hand to hand. The Chitauri did nothing in hand to hand besides get stomped. I don't recall any Aliens from Battle LA doing any impressive hand to hand feats either.

The only ones on your team that I would agree win in hand to hand most of the time are the Dark Elfs by assuming (As we have to because of featless) they are as strong and as fast as Asgardians and that they are fairly skilled.

Team 1 out number you and have shown superior tactics YOU DID ADMIT THIS and thus in a 3 vs 4 fight I can conclude that their weapons to be a match for those on team 2. To add to this with equal tech OR superior they will never the less be able to out do them on the battle field through superior tactics and strategy against them. This was my main point and reasons why team 1 would win. You throwing these hiss fits about me showing you just how silly your forces can be doesn't support nor help your cause either.

I ADMITED THE UMBARANS WERE THE BEST!I said the Aliens from LA did show tactics which amazed me as they are movie aliens. Both Chimera and Drones showed the use of tactics.

Umbarans > Chimera>/= Aliens = Drones

Yea, there is no way you could possibly argue your team has superior tech given that the only way you could possibly work this is with a high interpretation of Dark Elf guns.

No, you continue to believe, wrongly I add, that there is some huge difference in tactics. There isn't. The Chimera, alone, could be argued to be just as good given the numerous references and showings of utilizing ambushes themselves.

My main point for Team 2 winning is their far superior durability, advantage in weaponry (Literally, the only thing you have is Chitauri grenades which they never seem to use), superior leadership, and far superior elite and special forces.

You haven't shown me how 'silly' they are (In fact, besides your raging hateboner for Covenant, you have failed to do any of this). You show evidence that you didn't even fully read or comprehend. I have answered them, called you out on your BS so many times, and every time I do so you 'pretend' to not notice and switch tracks to something else in an effort to hide this.

4 I will not be able to conclude just how effective the Umbarans will for now because of killerwasp not having given us the last bit of information we will need. Believe it or not if he allows a decent amount of those robotic bugs this will tip the edge into team 1's favor even more.

Besides the 'tip it even more' I agree that a large amount will give team 1 the win. A small amount, and team 2 will win.

In conclusion for the reasons I've listed in the points that have been made up above is the reason why team 1 will be the winner in this conflict.

Once again, I have addressed your points.

I will restate my reasoning for team 2 winning:

Superior weaponry (Chimera weapons, Covenant weapons)

Vastly superior Special/Elite units

Superior Durability

Superior Leadership

Artillery

vs

A very slight edge in tactics (so slight it own't make a difference)

More men

Superior air

5 vs 3. Yea, I like my odds.

Unresolved: Armor. I believe team 2 wins due to having more, while team 1 has the best single armor, I firmly believe its use will be negated by the larger amount of high powered vehicles on team 2. The larger amount of them means they will be able to cover more areas of the battlefield and have a larger impact on it overall.

@wut: btw the umbarans get those bugs per soldier and use them as well. HUEHUE xd jk idk does 1 bug per squad sound fair? ( squad being 10 men or so? )

bump

Well Chitauri and Gungan Army are utterly useless, sad tactics, formations, and so on. Otherwise than that its going to be a tough fight. I dont believe either side really holds an advantage over the other. Most likely team 2 for a slight majority.

bump