Alexander Anderson vs Seras Victoria

In-character.

• Anderson: Standard equipment, no Helena's Nail.
• Seras Victoria: Standard equipment (cannon), post-blood / Zorin Blitz.

Location: the mansion where the two first met.

Let me guess you've recently watched Hellsing.

I watched it a year ago. I just started thinking about it again, and so... well, here we are.

Been meaning to read the manga, though.

The Manga is exactly the same as the Ultimate Hellsing. which makes sense since the writer of the Manga was head producer, and responsible for the voice acting of Ultimate Hellsing. Ultimate Hellsing has way more detail, same exact crap as the Manga. Even the artwork of Ultimate Hellsing mimics the artwork changes in the Manga lol.

I know. I'm just curious to see if anything feels different, without the addition of the musical score and other stylistic elements.

I'm guessing Ultimate will be better, since the writer probably changed things he didn't like in the original draft, but I'm still curious.

PS: I actually liked the original Hellsing anime... not as good as Ultimate, but it wasn't bad.

This. It felt sort of like a chance to add more context then he was able to before.

BTW... http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/hellsing-respect-thread-1501911/#1

See if you like it.

Like what, for example?

Example. In the scene with Seras and the shot at Zorin via Third Sight. In the Manga they make it look like Zorin maybe on a level piece of land a few hundred feet away. Instead in the Anime, we have Seras using Third Sight to see her target through the hills, trees, ect for her target. In the Manga she angles her shots which made no sense, in the Anime it made more sense and a impressive feat for her Third sight.

Another Example is Seras in the Manga bullet dodges the Ghouls with guns, simply shown a single drawing of running past bullets. In the anime, we see Seras doing the same, but they add a scene where she watches the bullet with her eyes, which is more impressive than what was quickly drawn.

@jedixman said:

In-character.

• Anderson: Standard equipment, no Helena's Nail.
• Seras Victoria: Standard equipment (cannon), post-blood / Zorin Blitz.

Location: the mansion where the two first met.

Seras will win and here's why.

While Alexander Anderson certainly has an impressive arsenal of holy bayonets, just like with Alucard, he has absolutely no way of killing her. Helena's nail gave him that edge (holy fire) but even that didn't do any lasting damage and merely caused him to lose his intelligence (he stopped using his bayonets and went all thorn). Alucard easily finished him soon afterwards.

Yes, Anderson managed to keep up with Alucard in his form 0 but that was just a sword battle where Alucard was toying with him the whole time. He didn't use any guns, he didn't use his shadow blades, and he didn't use his familiars, and when he did Anderson gave up in favour of the Nail. If Seras is aiming to kill Anderson, and she has her cannon then she'll win no contest (remember how she torn apart Zorin and her squad with her shadow blades and her fists). She'll impale or slice Anderson while he's throwing his Bayonets with her shadows. Or simply blow him to pieces with her Harkonnen.

Mind you someone will bring up her battle against the Captain as an example of her losing so I'll elaborate. The Captain is on a whole different level to Anderson and Seras. He's Millennium's Alucard pretty much, only better. One kick from him in the Dawn manga, and after his body was spilt in two from that kick's sheer force, Alucard fled. Not to mention that the Captain is the only one in the entire series whose flesh Walter's wires couldn't cut. He deliberately held back in the fight against Seras because he wanted to die (he stopped using his werewolf form after he found that Seras couldn't handle it, gave Seras the means to kill him and deliberately stopped moving after Seras caught his leg in her teeth).

Anyway, Seras wins.

Seras and Alucard's immortality are not the same. If memory serves, the number of times a vampire can resurrect depends on the number of familiars; when Alucard was in his level zero form, with all of the familiars out, Anderson noted that all he needed to do was kill Alucard, because he would actually die. Seras only has one familiar - she only has one life, essentially.

@cpt_nice What do you think of this? I actually forgot that I made it.

I just don't see Alex winning.

@jedixman said:

The familiar life count is merely a theory and the amount of times a vampire can regenerate is not entirely dependent on the amount of lives they have. When Alucard was at level zero, he was still able to regenerate effortlessly against Anderson and Walter (and he still beat them quite easily). Yes Anderson did note that he would be able to kill Alucard since he was but one man in his castle, but he couldn't even with the Nail, and not to mention that Alucard was playing with him.

Their regeneration is quite similar (Seras can regenerate limbs in seconds, can tank bullets and manipulate shadows). I'm sure in the 30 year time skip, her expertise with her shadows became as versatile and skilled as Alucard. But since this is post Zorin, unless Anderson has the strength of the Captain (which he doesn't), I don't see Seras losing her confidence at beating him like she did against the Captain (who I've noted is on a whole different level).

If this is a Seras aiming to kill Anderson (which I assume it is because it's a versus match) then Seras can and will win since she has the speed and the means to do so.

Anderson. Seras can't regen as many times as alucard can. And the regen theory has manga support to it:

Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way.

From hellsing chapter 59

@jedixman

Not really. It was in the form of Anderson's exposition. The form and purpose was as a statement of fact, not a theory. Unlike many Western comics, such expositions are usually scenes where the writer is speaking directly in order to explain events. Anderson's theory is backed up by Integra's comments. The layout of the scene was to inform the reader.

Not sure if that manga scene was in the anime or not

@blackestnight93:

He says something to that effect. 25:55

"He is a single vampire."

@jedixman: eh, that's really vague imo.

I don't know what the dub says; that may be more accurate. I cannot comment on how accurate those subs are.

@blackestnight93 said:

Alucard wasn't trying against Anderson in the mansion, and since this is a Seras who has knowledge of Anderson's abilities then Seras will get the better of him.

Or rather, if we were to look at it in-universe we just see that it's Anderson's speculation of he can't die because he has so many inside of him. Since we have level 0 Alucard who was just himself, and he was still able to regenerate just as effortlessly as he did without those souls in him, then the soul count is still a theory. Does the damage that Alucard or Seras take affect the souls they consume? When they take damage, do they use the soul inside of them to regenerate in exchange? There is no evidence to support such a statement. Like I said in the rest of my sentence which you cherry-picked out; "the amount of times a vampire can regenerate is not entirely dependent on the amount of lives they have."

Like I said before, Seras's regeneration is similar to Alucard and she has the speed and means to kill Anderson (shadow blades, cannon etc etc). Anderson does not and he cannot regenerate from being reduced to a pile of limbs or being sliced in half. His flesh is not as durable as the Captain (one direct punch from Seras and the Captain destroyed their respective arms, which they regenerated almost immediately). He's still a human, Seras wins.

Anderson would take it

Doing so ignores cultural context which is crucial to interpreting different mediums. It's common in anime and manga. Dialogue can be questioned, but I am hesitant to treat a moment of pure exposition the same way as dialogue.

Not trying? So, when Alucard found out that Anderson was a regenerator, he just let Anderson stomp him?

Really man?

Gallery

Cuz it looks like Alucard is totally toying around...

Probably Seras, with very hard difficulty(very close fight).

She has regen, insanely speed and power. He has also regen but weaker(+speed and power)..

@blackestnight93 said:

@observer25o said:

@blackestnight93 said:

Anderson. Seras can't regen as many times as alucard can. And the regen theory has manga support to it:

Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way.

Alucard wasn't trying against Anderson in the mansion, and since this is a Seras who has knowledge of Anderson's abilities then Seras will get the better of him.

Not trying? So, when Alucard found out that Anderson was a regenerator, he just let Anderson stomp him?

Really man?

Gallery

Cuz it looks like Alucard is totally toying around...

He was merely surprised that he was a regenerator. Yes he let him "stomp him" because as you would of probably noticed in that fight, Alucard doesn't use anything but his guns. He doesn't transform into level 1, he doesn't use his shadows, and he doesn't even try to punch Anderson (we know Alucard is faster then Luke Valentine). He just tanks everything Anderson threw at him, and regenerates soon afterwards. For later instances of the two fighting, we have full understanding that Alucard could of finished Anderson whenever he wanted, but chose not to, and when he did Anderson lost quite easily.

It is an in-universe explanation. If we were to seek out of universe interpretations for lines of dialogue then we risk the danger of assuming that we know and understand the author's intentions (which we do not). You're assumed that the entire sequence of Anderson's speculative opinion is a statement of fact. You then proceed to contradict yourself by saying it's a theory that is supported by Integra's comments even though you mentioned that it's a statement of fact designed to inform the reader. It is dialogue, and I attempted to find the middle ground by saying that's what Anderson 'thinks' is the reason why Alucard can't die. Like I mentioned in the rest of that comment, if such a theory were to hold merit, we would need evidence to support the hypothesis of whether the damage Alucard or Seras take directly affects the souls they have consumed (e.g. they regenerate in exchange for using a soul). Since there is no evidence to support such a claim (because we have level 0 Alucard regenerating such as well as he did with those souls), then the theory doesn't hold ground as observable fact. As such I'm treating it as a unconfirmed theory that holds no solid ground in this discussion.

@blackestnight93 said:

@observer25o said:

@blackestnight93 said:

@observer25o said:

@blackestnight93 said:

Anderson. Seras can't regen as many times as alucard can. And the regen theory has manga support to it:

Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way.

Alucard wasn't trying against Anderson in the mansion, and since this is a Seras who has knowledge of Anderson's abilities then Seras will get the better of him.

Not trying? So, when Alucard found out that Anderson was a regenerator, he just let Anderson stomp him?

Really man?

Gallery

Cuz it looks like Alucard is totally toying around...

He was merely surprised that he was a regenerator. Yes he let him "stomp him" because as you would of probably noticed in that fight, Alucard doesn't use anything but his guns. He doesn't transform into level 1, he doesn't use his shadows, and he doesn't even try to punch Anderson (we know Alucard is faster then Luke Valentine). He just tanks everything Anderson threw at him, and regenerates soon afterwards. For later instances of the two fighting, we have full understanding that Alucard could of finished Anderson whenever he wanted, but chose not to, and when he did Anderson lost quite easily.

Again, there is no proof that Alucard was toying around with Anderson. If he was, then he would have just regend quickly and stomped the crap out of him, much like he did to the SWAT team in Brazil. Alucard got his shit wrecked in the same manner that Seras would here.

You're doing nothing but making excuses. Hell, Alucard needed a gun specifically designed to defeat Anderson in order to gain the advantage. What the hell does that tell you?

Your inference disregards the evidence I have put forward and does not hold merit. There is proof that Alucard was toying with Anderson because of what I have implied and is not a direct or indirect excuse. Alucard was not trying at the mansion, because if we were to use the same example you've put forward (the slaughter of the Brazillian swat team), he would of done the same thing to Anderson but he chose not to.

Indeed, Alucard requested a new gun, but considering how we know that the rest of his arsenal of abilities (e.g. his shadows) definitely allows him to beat Anderson whenever he wanted, then the Jackal we can assume is because Alucard wanted a better gun (since the Casull proved useless against Anderson) and was just a quick way to deal with enemies.

@observer25o

You are one of the few people who think Seras can beat Base Anderson, and you bring interesting points. I also think Seras has the arsenal to beat Anderson, but I think that Base Anderson would still win high-diff, assuming Seras has no guns and she can coordinate with Pip while Anderson has his normal and explosive bayonets. I'd be interested to see if you can convince me otherwise.

You said that Anderson can't possibly kill her, which is totally untrue. Anderson chucks a bayonet into her heart. She dies. She resurrects? He chucks a bayonet into her heart again. Helena's Nail was clearly about to roast Seras into ashes had Alucard not regained his strength. You're blind otherwise. You said that Alucard easily killed him, but you forgot that Alucard couldn't even handle the massive swarm of vines which Anderson threw at him by himself. Alucard had to defend himself with his familiars which he used as sacrifices to make an opening through which to leap through and even then it took an all-out suicidal attack to kill Anderson while bleeding from the mouth. Alucard narrowly beated Anderson.

Harkonnen I would be easily dodged by Anderson or deflected so that it doesn't hit him. If she had Harkonnen II, then she would be able to kill Anderson easily, but I'm assuming that Seras has no guns at her disposal. Seras would be forced on the defensive if Anderson throws his bayonets at her. She wouldn't be attacking Anderson at all if he used his bayonets. Anderson would eventually overwhelm her while spamming his bayonets.

Captain didn't deliberately stop moving when Seras caught his leg. He COULDN'T move, because Seras did something to his leg as you can see shadow tendrils restricting Captain's leg (not to mention he only had one leg which he couldn't do anything with at all). This doesn't exactly help your argument mind you, as overrating the extent to which Captain held back forces you to downplay Seras.

Alucard was obviously trying to kill Anderson in their first fight. He tried to blew his brains out and thought he succeeded with no regret. He then continued to frustratingly fire Casull bullets at Anderson, which failed. Anderson then legitimately caught Alucard off guard with his speed and cruxified Alucard, who looked very surprised.

About the Resurrection Ability

Or rather, if we were to look at it in-universe we just see that it's Anderson's speculation of he can't die because he has so many inside of him.

What's with this non-sequitur distortion? The only reason he can't die is because the many souls inside him substitute the damage inflicted to kill him. Again, it's not "regeneration". It's resurrection. The "soul count [fact]" has nothing to do with regeneration. There is no cherry picking here. The misunderstanding lies on you. Alucard himself states this, so it's not Word of Mouth speculation, but a deductful realization on Anderson's part based on experience. And it explains everything. It's the only thing that explains everything. It explains why Alucard came back to life after Anderson destroyed his heart in their first fight (and i know you're going to mention the hellsing experiments so we'll get to that later). It explains why he then egged Anderson to pierce his heart to end his life despite having unrestricted access to his powers including the full extent of hellsing's experimentation. It explains why everybody thought that their only chance to kill Alucard after he released Level 0. It explains why the Major wanted to poison Alucard via Schrodinger.

@blackestnight93 said:

Because people toying around with someone always let themselves get blitzed, impaled over a dozen times and then get decapitated, right? And again, if Alucard was really toying around with Anderson, then why didn't he just regen and stomp Anderson? You have presented little to no actual proof at all, you have presented your own speculation, with nothing to back it up. Your hypothesis holds little weight due to lack of foundation. We have moments of Alucard toying around with enemies in the manga. Look at the moment with the swat team as a perfect example:

Gallery

That is him toying around with someone.

Indeed, Alucard requested the a new gun, but considering how we know that the rest of his arsenal of abilities (e.g. his shadows) definitely allows him to beat Anderson whenever he wanted, then the Jackal we can assume is because Alucard wanted a better gun (since the Casull proved useless against Anderson) and was just a quick way to deal with enemies.

Again, then why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson? You have nothing other then speculation behind your claims, meanwhile, I've backed up mine with proof from the manga itself. We know Alucard is capable of very rapid regeneration on a normal occasion (I just posted an entire occurrence sure), and yet, he couldn't do this against Anderson after Alexander decapitated him. Seras almost died, as did Integra herself, and you expect me to believe that he was toying around all that time?

In reply to your first paragraph. Yes Alucard does do that because from what we know about Alucard (when he meets new people) he deliberately does this (possibly to test their abilities). In all subsequent fights before the battle of London, he allows himself to be torn asunder before regenerating soon afterward and killing the enemy (with the exception of Anderson, whom he allowed to flee). The priest and his the ghouls, Anderson, Luke Valentine, the Brazillian swat team, Alhambra and Rip Van Winkle. When he did get serious for all of them, they all died Anderson included. Like I mentioned before, Alucard did not try anything else but his guns in the first confrontation. That is not an example of Anderson "stomping him" as you said in your previous comment, but is a prime example of Alucard not trying at all. He thought it was fun. Just like his usage of weaponry (even though he doesn't need it) is just to heighten his experience.

In reply to your second paragraph. He did regenerate soon after Anderson cut his head off (it's possible that the bayonets delayed the regeneration, he wanted to push Seras to drink his blood and become a true vampire or chose his moment to do so, since subsequent regeneration after the mansion incident happen almost instantaneously). It actually isn't 'nothing but speculation' because what I refer to is supported by evidence from the manga/anime (which are almost identical apart from the first few chapters), which I assume everyone has a knowledge of. I am new to comicvine, so I do not know how to link pages (yet) but that doesn't necessarily mean I do not know what I'm talking about. Yes I do expect you to believe Alucard was toying around the entire time, because with the examples you've given, and universal knowledge of what he's capable of (amongst readers and watchers of the manga and anime), the question doesn't become "why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson?" but instead "why was he holding back." Answer? Because it was fun for him. From the shots of the bats and Alucard's telepathy to Seras during that incident, we know that Integra and Seras weren't in any real danger because he could of appeared whenever he wanted to.

You seem to give off the impression that Anderson is better then Alucard, while blatantly ignoring how in subsequent fights after the mansion incident, we know that Anderson stood no chance whatsoever (even with the nail) and this is after Anderson upgraded his weaponry (implied, since his closing remark at the mansion is that he can't beat them with what he has at the moment, and then in the battle of london, a single bayonet melted a Millennium soldier).

Your original comment said precisely this: "Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way" but if we were to examine that 'battle' at the mansion, we see it wasn't a close quarter fight that could go either way as your comment implied (with 'Anderson holding his own') but just another case where Alucard did not try (with the knowledge of what he's capable of). He didn't use anything other then the Casull so what does they imply? He wasn't trying. And since he easily destroyed Anderson when he had the nail, we know he could of defeated Anderson whenever he wanted, but chose not to. I would accept that remark of "Anderson holding his own" if it were referring to the sword battle with level 0 Alucard, but just like in that instance, Alucard chose not use anything but the bare minimum of his abilities (his sword).

Since Seras's regeneration is similar to Alucard (without restraint, so there's no delay like at the mansion), and she's faster, and has the means to defeat Anderson (e.g. Shadow blades and the Harkonnen) then she can and will beat Anderson.

@observer25o said:

@blackestnight93 said:

Because people toying around with someone always let themselves get blitzed, impaled over a dozen times and then get decapitated, right? And again, if Alucard was really toying around with Anderson, then why didn't he just regen and stomp Anderson? You have presented little to no actual proof at all, you have presented your own speculation, with nothing to back it up. Your hypothesis holds little weight due to lack of foundation. We have moments of Alucard toying around with enemies in the manga. Look at the moment with the swat team as a perfect example:

Gallery

That is him toying around with someone.

Indeed, Alucard requested the a new gun, but considering how we know that the rest of his arsenal of abilities (e.g. his shadows) definitely allows him to beat Anderson whenever he wanted, then the Jackal we can assume is because Alucard wanted a better gun (since the Casull proved useless against Anderson) and was just a quick way to deal with enemies.

Again, then why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson? You have nothing other then speculation behind your claims, meanwhile, I've backed up mine with proof from the manga itself. We know Alucard is capable of very rapid regeneration on a normal occasion (I just posted an entire occurrence sure), and yet, he couldn't do this against Anderson after Alexander decapitated him. Seras almost died, as did Integra herself, and you expect me to believe that he was toying around all that time?

In reply to your first paragraph. Yes Alucard does do that because from what we know about Alucard (when he meets new people) he deliberately does this (possibly to test their abilities). In all subsequent fights before the battle of London, he allows himself to be torn asunder before regenerating soon afterward and killing the enemy (with the exception of Anderson, whom he allowed to flee). The priest and his the ghouls, Anderson, Luke Valentine, the Brazillian swat team, Alhambra and Rip Van Winkle. When he did get serious for all of them, they all died Anderson included. Like I mentioned before, Alucard did not try anything else but his guns in the first confrontation. That is not an example of Anderson "stomping him" as you said in your previous comment, but is a prime example of Alucard not trying at all. He thought it was fun. Just like his usage of weaponry (even though he doesn't need it) is just to heighten his experience.

How the hell do you call someone blitzing, impaling to a wall, then decapitating someone, anything other then a stomp?

In reply to your second paragraph. He did regenerate soon after Anderson cut his head off (it's possible that the bayonets delayed the regeneration, he wanted to push Seras to drink his blood and become a true vampire or chose his moment to do so, since subsequent regeneration after the mansion incident happen almost instantaneously). It actually isn't 'nothing but speculation' because what I refer to is supported by evidence from the manga/anime (which are almost identical apart from the first few chapters), which I assume everyone has a knowledge of. I am new to comicvine, so I do not know how to link pages (yet) but that doesn't necessarily mean I do not know what I'm talking about. Yes I do expect you to believe Alucard was toying around the entire time, because with the examples you've given, and universal knowledge of what he's capable of (amongst readers and watchers of the manga and anime), the question doesn't become "why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson?" but instead "why was he holding back." Answer? Because it was fun for him. From the shots of the bats and Alucard's telepathy to Seras during that incident, we know that Integra and Seras weren't in any real danger because he could of appeared whenever he wanted to.

You speak to me as if I'm totally unfamiliar with the source material at hand. Seriously, there was a significant amount of time that passed between Alucard getting decapitated and him regenerating. Your attempt to claim that Alucard was toying around the entire time falls apart when we come to Anderson coming so close to killing Integra. Did you forget that he threatened to kill Maxwell for simply insulting her? I mean c'mon now....

You seem to give off the impression that Anderson is better then Alucard, while blatantly ignoring how in subsequent fights after the mansion incident, we know that Anderson stood no chance whatsoever (even with the nail) and this is after Anderson upgraded his weaponry (implied, since his closing remark at the mansion is that he can't beat them with what he has at the moment, and then in the battle of london, a single bayonet melted a Millennium soldier).

No, Anderson is not better then Alucard, nor did I ever say as such. I brought up Anderson stomping Alucard in the mansion (which he did do) to point out that he has stomped even a post blood Seras' better before, hence he beats her here, as she brings nothing to the table that Anderson hasn't faced in Alucard.

Your original comment said precisely this: "Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way" but if we were to examine that 'battle' at the mansion, we see it wasn't a close quarter fight that could go either way as your comment implied (with 'Anderson holding his own') but just another case where Alucard did not try (with the knowledge of what he's capable of). He didn't use anything other then the Casull so what does they imply? He wasn't trying. And since he easily destroyed Anderson when he had the nail, we know he could of defeated Anderson whenever he wanted, but chose not to. I would accept that remark of "Anderson holding his own" if it were referring to the sword battle with level 0 Alucard, but just like in that instance, Alucard chose not use anything but the bare minimum of his abilities (his sword).

Alucard doesn't have a sword.... Nothing to indicate he was toying around as he let Integra's life get in danger which would be totally OOC for Alucard given the maxwell example. Also, Alucard only stomped Anderson once he decided to go all out (one could say he was borderline bloodlusted), he got his butt kicked under normal circumstances

Since Seras's regeneration is similar to Alucard (without restraint, so there's no delay like at the mansion), and she's faster, and has the means to defeat Anderson (e.g. Shadow blades and the Harkonnen) then she can and will beat Anderson.

No, Seras gets impaled, like she did before. Presumably she regens through the following decapitation. Then rinse and repeat as she doesn't have the souls in her to regen from that again. The regen/soul theory is directly supported by the manga

@observer25o:

There is a little truth to what you're saying about Alucard vs. Anderson. It's clear Alucard was holding back against Anderson. If he fired the Jackal a few more times, Anderson stays dead. This is of course the same guy who killed a far stronger Anderson with his bare hands. But it's a baseless assumption to say that he was putting in zero effort. Especially not against Anderson, the man who Alucard respects and who he wanted to beat him fairly and totally, just like Abraham did to him 100 years ago. That's what Alucard wanted.

I think Alucard was fighting at his level normal of strength, pretty much what he displayed against Tubalcain after he released Level 1. Their clashes were equal, so it is safe to their fighting speeds and raw strengths were comparable. The only relevance this has is that this makes Anderson significantly faster than Seras in terms of fighting speed, which is why spamming bayonets would let him overwhelm Seras and eventually slice into her heart.

Anderson should win.

1. The battle that JediXMan has stipulated has Seras with Standard equipment (Harkonnen cannon) and post-blood after the fight with Zorin. Anderson has standard equipment (presumably battle of london gear) but no Helena's nail. I hope I can convince you.

2. Instances where Alucard has received a bayonet to the heart did not kill him so it stands to reason why it would hurt Seras as well. Indeed, Anderson can throw Beyonets towards her but she is clearly able to dodge them and counterattack of her own accord. Helena's Nail certainly hurt Seras (if we're judging by visual expression) but it didn't roast her (or was about to) as you claim. The bayonet from Anderson, enhanced by Helena's Nail only incinerated Alucard's familiars but did not do any lasting damage to Alucard, even though he was consumed by those same flames. Since Anderson does not have Helena's Nail, it is not worth mentioning in the fight between the two. Indeed, I mentioned that Alucard easily killed him, but this is because of the way he responded to Anderson soon after being stabbed. He breaks Anderson's nail, changes into his black level 1 attire, and then proceeds to rip through Anderson's vines and tear out Helena's nail from his body and crush his heart without his damage being done to him in the process. Alucard had to defend himself with his familiars which he used as sacrifices to make an opening through which to leap through and even then it took an all-out suicidal attack to kill Anderson while bleeding from the mouth. - The sacrificial hypothesis has no concrete evidence to support it, so you must forgive me if I dismiss it candidly. The blood from Alucard's mouth is from Anderson's heart which he crushed (if my memory serves me correctly). Alucard easily beat Anderson, it was not narrow.

3. Anderson hasn't been shown to dodge bullets, and he's the type of person to just rush forward tanking it all (being fired upon by the casull is a good example of this). She does have her guns, as you should of read from JediXMan's first post (the one that started this thread at the top of the page, and the one I completely quoted in my first comment). She wouldn't be forced onto the defensive, because she's been shown to easily dodge automatic fire while rushing forward to attack (her slaughter of Zorin and her troops). Anderson does not throw as fast as bullets so Seras is most certainly faster. Combined with her shadow abilities, she can quite easily impale him or slice him to pieces before he can do anything.

4. He did deliberately stop moving because from what the manga and anime imply, The Captain completely stops moving. There is no visual sign of him trying to pull out, there is no attempt from him trying to punch or kick Seras away with his other 3 limbs, he doesn't transform into his mist form or werewolf form (like he did when impaled by Seras's shadows earlier). He just stops, and lets it happen, hence why I said he deliberately stopped moving. Not to mention how in that latter portion of the fight, he ceases to use his werewolf form as he noticed that it was too much for Seras to handle (after all, that same form split Alucard in two, which caused him to comically flee, as I mentioned earlier). It doesn't downplay Seras, because I mentioned that the Captain is on a different level to Anderson and Seras, and I merely wished to remove the example of that fight (which people use in an attempt to downplay Seras or her chances at winning against Anderson) from the discussion.

5. He was trying to kill him, with only his gun in his normal casual form. After that, I guess you could say that Alucard recognized Anderson as the human who would defeat the monster so he started to try a bit more in their next fight (but Anderson still lost in their rematch).

@observer25o

I added more to my original post to you btw, specifically about the Dracula bloodline's resurrection ability.

Alucard has been blatantly killed by Anderson when skewered in the heart. He only came back as a result of his resurrection ability. Furthermore, the only correlational evidence between Alucard and Seras is that Alucard > Seras, so yes whatever Alucard is capable of does not correlate to what Seras is capable of.

I will skip the Helena's Nail part, but it is not totally irrelevant. Remember, the fact that Seras resisted the flames for a short period of time and regenerated from them shows that she can also heal injuries inflicted by Anderson's blessed bayonets, something a fully restricted Alucard couldn't do. That is relevant.

http://mangaseeonline.net/read-online/Hellsing-chapter-69-page-21.html

http://mangaseeonline.net/read-online/Hellsing-chapter-69-page-22.html

You can read the rest of the chapters as it answers the blood on Alucard's mouth and what not but look at those two pages. Alucard summons his remaining familiars, but why? Why would he use them if they were helplessly vaporized by Anderson's flames? It is because he put up a barrier of familiars in front of him to defend himself against Anderson's vines which took the attack for him. As they were being roasted, the vines cracked apart and we see Alucard leaping through an opening (in the second page) while the vines continued to attack the rest of his familiars. This shows that Alucard could not handle the vines by himself, and he needed his familiars.

Anderson blitzes casual bullet timers, so yes his bayonets are far faster than bullets. This is common knowledge.

Again, you're being obtuse. Captain literally cannot move. He has only one leg and that's the only thing that keeps on standing. He cannot move his other leg because it's completely stuck in Seras's mouth and paralyzed by the blood/shadows coming from it. And OTHER THREE LIMBS? Dude, look back to the chapter

http://mangaseeonline.net/read-online/Hellsing-chapter-80-page-18.html

His two arms were BLOWN OFF. He relentlessly used his arms and even after they were blown off, he immediately tried to kick Seras. The only way this relentless fighting spirit would drop is if he was defeated, if he could not fight anymore. And he was defeated. Seras has stopped all of his movements while Pip had the silver tooth at his ready. If he didn't shapeshift into mist, then it means that he couldn't and he was too slow to do so in his state.

I'm afraid you still have yet to convince me. Anderson would still high-diff Seras. His bayonets are too fast and too numerous covering all angles for Seras to not be on the defensive against. She will dodge the first barrage, but not the next few that Anderson will spam at all. Eventually, she will be hit in the heart by them. Explosive bayonets are also a good tactic to play. Anderson's masculine fighting spirit is also what lets him beat Seras. He doesn't give up even after taking a massive amount of damage. This guy was the one who would have beaten Alucard, and against Seras who's just a poor man's Alucard, she cannot possibly win canonically. Someone like Anderson is a bad matchup for a vampire like herself.

So what can you do to convince me otherwise? Convince me that Seras is faster than Anderson, and I will debate while supporting you. Convince me that Seras has either better stamina or that somehow Anderson's willpower, which the textual narrative says will prevail against vampires because humans truly want to defeat them, won't help him against Seras like it would have against Alucard. These are the only two things that you would do best focusing on.

@blackestnight93 said:

@observer25o said:

@blackestnight93 said:

Because people toying around with someone always let themselves get blitzed, impaled over a dozen times and then get decapitated, right? And again, if Alucard was really toying around with Anderson, then why didn't he just regen and stomp Anderson? You have presented little to no actual proof at all, you have presented your own speculation, with nothing to back it up. Your hypothesis holds little weight due to lack of foundation. We have moments of Alucard toying around with enemies in the manga. Look at the moment with the swat team as a perfect example:

Gallery

That is him toying around with someone.

Indeed, Alucard requested the a new gun, but considering how we know that the rest of his arsenal of abilities (e.g. his shadows) definitely allows him to beat Anderson whenever he wanted, then the Jackal we can assume is because Alucard wanted a better gun (since the Casull proved useless against Anderson) and was just a quick way to deal with enemies.

Again, then why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson? You have nothing other then speculation behind your claims, meanwhile, I've backed up mine with proof from the manga itself. We know Alucard is capable of very rapid regeneration on a normal occasion (I just posted an entire occurrence sure), and yet, he couldn't do this against Anderson after Alexander decapitated him. Seras almost died, as did Integra herself, and you expect me to believe that he was toying around all that time?

In reply to your first paragraph. Yes Alucard does do that because from what we know about Alucard (when he meets new people) he deliberately does this (possibly to test their abilities). In all subsequent fights before the battle of London, he allows himself to be torn asunder before regenerating soon afterward and killing the enemy (with the exception of Anderson, whom he allowed to flee). The priest and his the ghouls, Anderson, Luke Valentine, the Brazillian swat team, Alhambra and Rip Van Winkle. When he did get serious for all of them, they all died Anderson included. Like I mentioned before, Alucard did not try anything else but his guns in the first confrontation. That is not an example of Anderson "stomping him" as you said in your previous comment, but is a prime example of Alucard not trying at all. He thought it was fun. Just like his usage of weaponry (even though he doesn't need it) is just to heighten his experience.

How the hell do you call someone blitzing, impaling to a wall, then decapitating someone, anything other then a stomp?

In reply to your second paragraph. He did regenerate soon after Anderson cut his head off (it's possible that the bayonets delayed the regeneration, he wanted to push Seras to drink his blood and become a true vampire or chose his moment to do so, since subsequent regeneration after the mansion incident happen almost instantaneously). It actually isn't 'nothing but speculation' because what I refer to is supported by evidence from the manga/anime (which are almost identical apart from the first few chapters), which I assume everyone has a knowledge of. I am new to comicvine, so I do not know how to link pages (yet) but that doesn't necessarily mean I do not know what I'm talking about. Yes I do expect you to believe Alucard was toying around the entire time, because with the examples you've given, and universal knowledge of what he's capable of (amongst readers and watchers of the manga and anime), the question doesn't become "why didn't he regen and do just this against Anderson?" but instead "why was he holding back." Answer? Because it was fun for him. From the shots of the bats and Alucard's telepathy to Seras during that incident, we know that Integra and Seras weren't in any real danger because he could of appeared whenever he wanted to.

You speak to me as if I'm totally unfamiliar with the source material at hand. Seriously, there was a significant amount of time that passed between Alucard getting decapitated and him regenerating. Your attempt to claim that Alucard was toying around the entire time falls apart when we come to Anderson coming so close to killing Integra. Did you forget that he threatened to kill Maxwell for simply insulting her? I mean c'mon now....

You seem to give off the impression that Anderson is better then Alucard, while blatantly ignoring how in subsequent fights after the mansion incident, we know that Anderson stood no chance whatsoever (even with the nail) and this is after Anderson upgraded his weaponry (implied, since his closing remark at the mansion is that he can't beat them with what he has at the moment, and then in the battle of london, a single bayonet melted a Millennium soldier).

No, Anderson is not better then Alucard, nor did I ever say as such. I brought up Anderson stomping Alucard in the mansion (which he did do) to point out that he has stomped even a post blood Seras' better before, hence he beats her here, as she brings nothing to the table that Anderson hasn't faced in Alucard.

Your original comment said precisely this: "Anderson was holding his own against Alucard in the mansion, and got the better of him even. Alucard is better then seras in every way" but if we were to examine that 'battle' at the mansion, we see it wasn't a close quarter fight that could go either way as your comment implied (with 'Anderson holding his own') but just another case where Alucard did not try (with the knowledge of what he's capable of). He didn't use anything other then the Casull so what does they imply? He wasn't trying. And since he easily destroyed Anderson when he had the nail, we know he could of defeated Anderson whenever he wanted, but chose not to. I would accept that remark of "Anderson holding his own" if it were referring to the sword battle with level 0 Alucard, but just like in that instance, Alucard chose not use anything but the bare minimum of his abilities (his sword).

Alucard doesn't have a sword.... Nothing to indicate he was toying around as he let Integra's life get in danger which would be totally OOC for Alucard given the maxwell example. Also, Alucard only stomped Anderson once he decided to go all out (one could say he was borderline bloodlusted), he got his butt kicked under normal circumstances

Since Seras's regeneration is similar to Alucard (without restraint, so there's no delay like at the mansion), and she's faster, and has the means to defeat Anderson (e.g. Shadow blades and the Harkonnen) then she can and will beat Anderson.

No, Seras gets impaled, like she did before. Presumably she regens through the following decapitation. Then rinse and repeat as she doesn't have the souls in her to regen from that again. The regen/soul theory is directly supported by the manga

"How the hell do you call someone blitzing, impaling to a wall, then decapitating someone, anything other then a stomp?"

I do not deny that Anderson did that, but I am insinuating that because Alucard didn't use anything but his gun, the 'stomp' doesn't hold as much weight as you imply.

"You speak to me as if I'm totally unfamiliar with the source material at hand. Seriously, there was a significant amount of time that passed between Alucard getting decapitated and him regenerating. Your attempt to claim that Alucard was toying around the entire time falls apart when we come to Anderson coming so close to killing Integra. Did you forget that he threatened to kill Maxwell for simply insulting her? I mean c'mon now...."

I'm not speaking to you with a tone of condescension as you are to me. I'm merely stating that Alucard was toying around because he didn't try anything else from their initial confrontation. Anderson was close to killing Integra, but he didn't kill her and that's when Alucard chose to appear (the telepathy to Seras and the bat shots are examples of him not being incapacitated during that sequence). Indeed he threatened to kill Maxwell for insulting her, but those are two difference instances and do not hold sway here.

"Alucard doesn't have a sword.... Nothing to indicate he was toying around as he let Integra's life get in danger which would be totally OOC for Alucard given the maxwell example. Also, Alucard only stomped Anderson once he decided to go all out (one could say he was borderline bloodlusted), he got his butt kicked under normal circumstances"

He does have a sword, his original attire during the final confrontation against Anderson.

"No, Seras gets impaled, like she did before. Presumably she regens through the following decapitation. Then rinse and repeat as she doesn't have the souls in her to regen from that again. The regen/soul theory is directly supported by the manga"

No she doesn't get impaled because just like I said to ShadowRant, Seras is faster then Anderson. She was only impaled before by Anderson's bayonets because she was taken by surprise, and this is before her vampire power awakening. Pre-blood she was shown to dodge gunfire from ghouls and counterattack of her own accord. Post-Blood, very similar, only faster (slaughter of Zorin and her troops). The regen/soul theory is not directly supported by the manga as I mentioned to JediXMan.

Why?

The regen/soul theory is not directly supported by the manga as I mentioned to JediXMan

It does, as I said to you in my original post. It's a canon fact, and I think it even helps Seras more than if it were untrue since it gives her two chances to beat Anderson.

1. I am aware you added more, but I am really starting to tire so forgive me if I ignored it.

2. He did not die... and I mentioned that their regeneration, and the usage of their shadows is similar but not identical.

6. I am not being obtuse. The Captain could of moved, but he chose not to.

9. Do not lecture me on how to debate.

@observer25o:

Alright, it is kind of late so I guess we'll go in-depth on that topic on another day.

1. No he was killed, Anderson fulfilled everything needed to kill him. But because he had millions of souls, he was able to use one soul to resurrect himself and form a new body.

2. Nope, you are being dense now. Seras destroyed three of his limbs and Captain's remaining leg could not be used to attack as that was the only thing keeping on foot. Pip had the silver tooth at the ready, so he merely killed Captain before he could shapeshift into mist. Assuming he can, of course. After all, he did fight at his hardest and possibly now that he reached a fighting limit especially with his two arms blown off and a leg paralyzed by Seras, he might not have had the energy or ability to shapeshift at all. Seras pushed him to his fighting limit

3. I'm just simplifying things and directing you, from my point of view as I am the one who you're trying to convince, where you should be focusing on. I see it all over your posts, directed to me and BlackestNight, that you are not really focusing it on what makes Seras trump everything Anderson's got. Your points are all over the place, and some are fairly inaccurate. My criticism is not against your debating, but against your persuasion. I am giving you the material to buy my vote. Tell me why Seras is faster than Anderson and why his masculine fighting spirit which Alucard praised as the winning factor against him, a superior vampire to Seras, doesn't matter much against Seras. Why makes her so special?

@blackestnight93 said:

@observer25o said:

I do not deny that Anderson did that, but I am insinuating that because Alucard didn't use anything but his gun, the 'stomp' doesn't hold as much weight as you imply.

Why not? Alucard wasn't toying around,he was pretty normal in terms of ability. It's kind of tough to downplay the feat mate, which it seems like you're attempting to do.

I'm not speaking to you with a tone of condescension as you are to me. I'm merely stating that Alucard was toying around because he didn't try anything else from their initial confrontation. Anderson was close to killing Integra, but he didn't kill her and that's when Alucard chose to appear (the telepathy to Seras and the bat shots are examples of him not being incapacitated during that sequence). Indeed he threatened to kill Maxwell for insulting her, but those are two difference instances and do not hold sway here.

Again, you admit to things happening in the manga, and still try and play this narrative as if Alucard was toying around. It flies in the face of Alucards character to admit that while Integra came close to death, Alucard was still joking around with Anderson even up to then. I mean c'mon man...how far can you stretch this unsupported narrative?

He does have a sword, his original attire during the final confrontation against Anderson.

Ah, I misread that comment, I thought we were still talking about the mansion fight, not their fight in London.

No she doesn't get impaled because just like I said to ShadowRant, Seras is faster then Anderson. She was only impaled before by Anderson's bayonets because she was taken by surprise, and this is before her vampire power awakening. Pre-blood she was shown to dodge gunfire from ghouls and counterattack of her own accord. Post-Blood, very similar, only faster (slaughter of Zorin and her troops). The regen/soul theory is not directly supported by the manga as I mentioned to JediXMan.

Which is irrellevant since Anderson can, and has spammed bayonets as an opening move, against Seras herself no less. She's getting impaled again, the close confines of the mansion hallway ensure that. Hell, these bayonets were even able to fly so fast that it even surprised Alucard, who is an easy bullet-timer. And those blessed bayonetts do some serious damage to vampires

Pretty sure Jedi has already addressed why you're mistaken about your interpretation of the regen/soul evidence. It's your choice if you want to believe it or not.

Why not? Alucard wasn't toying around,he was pretty normal in terms of ability. It's kind of tough to downplay the feat mate, which it seems like you're attempting to do.

Beyond the danger at which he left Integra and Seras in, there are several reasons as to why I constantly repeat myself by saying Alucard was toying with Anderson. Alucard didn't do anything beyond firing his Casull, as he didn't use his shadows, his level 1 state, his black dog Baskerville, etc etc. I will admit that Anderson did 'beat' him at that point, but since Alucard regenerated soon afterwards, it wouldn't necessarily count as a defeat because Anderson failed to kill him, and when Alucard came back, Anderson fled. I am not attempting to downplay it (I am merely perceiving it for what it is), but considering how in their next fight against each other, Anderson couldn't replicate that 'success' he had in their first confrontation, then we know Alucard was deliberately holding back.

and still try and play this narrative as if Alucard was toying around. It flies in the face of Alucards character to admit that while Integra came close to death

Let us examine that scene in general. Anderson pins Alucard to the wall, impales him with multiple bayonets and then decapitates him. Seras flees with Alucard's head but she is eventually cornered by his barrier, Alucard then speaks to Seras, demanding her to drink his blood (out of his melted head) and become basically like him, she hesitates. Integra and her two bodyguards walk in where Integra demands Anderson leaves, he laughs it off, kills the two bodyguards, and pins Integra against the wall,who managed to pull up a sword in self-defense. Integra then laughs off Anderson's threats because decapitation and impaling don't work against Alucard, and during his subsequent regeneration (out of bats), he chastises Seras for not drinking his blood. Anderson recognizes that he can't win and flees from the mansion. Alucard then says "It's been awhile since I've had my head cut off" or something along those lines (depending what translated manga page or subtitled OVA you have) and they leave.

With the knowledge of Alucard's entire ensemble of abilities, you can understand why I think he was playing around because soon after that, Alucard's regeneration was never that slow ever again. It was slow because it had been some time since that had happened to him (decapitation) and because he wanted Seras to drink his blood.

Which is irrellevant since Anderson can, and has spammed bayonets as an opening move, against Seras herself no less. She's getting impaled again, the close confines of the mansion hallway ensure that. Hell, these bayonets were even able to fly so fast that it even surprised Alucard, who is an easy bullet-timer. And those blessed bayonetts do some serious damage to vampires.

Indeed he has, but just like against Zorin's vampire squad, she can dodge his bayonets and counterattack swiftly, and that particular instance was also in a similar confined hallway. Interestingly enough, even though Alucard notes the difficulty at which vampires have against regenerating from those Bayonets, and how we've seen the damage they do (they melted a Millennium vampire soldier), against true vampires like Alucard or Seras (post-blood), they appear to do little to no damage because whenever Alucard was cut by them, he had no issues regenerating from it. Seras (pre-blood) had some trouble as they burned her at the touch, but when she removed them, she was healed soon afterwards.

Pretty sure Jedi has already addressed why you're mistaken about your interpretation of the regen/soul evidence. It's your choice if you want to believe it or not.

Interesting choice of words I must say, to try and twist my point around as if it were my refusal to believe it rather then it being a difference or disagreement of interpretation of particular key scenes.

I think father gets this.

@jedixman: Probably Anderson. Like others said, Alucard is better than Seras in almost every way and yet he always did well against him. There is also the fact that when she freed Integra from Section 13, Anderson specifically said that they were no match for them, but he did not say "we" implying he could still beat her in a fight. He seemed pretty confident.

The only issue I see is Seras' tendrils. If she manages to skew Anderson like she did the Captain, he is done for. But I think Anderson has the speed to avoid that.

It will be a difficult fight but I give it to the father

Without further ado, let's start again without any reference to any previous reply (apart from of course, the first question) so we can try and answer this easier, as my long chain of comments and replies with others has caused us to either repeat ourselves, lose sight of what we're truly talking about, or generally dismiss each other altogether,

The question posted is thus: Seras Victoria with her Harkonnen cannon (presumably number I and not number two because then she would win without question) vs Alexander Anderson without Helena's Nail. The location is at the mansion and its narrow hallways. Who will win and why?

Let us examine their respective weapons first:

Seras uses the 30mm Anti-Tank/Midian Cannon "Harkonnen" which is stated by Walter to destroy tanks (hence its name) and uses depleted uranium with silver for piercing armored targets and incendiary napalm rounds for destroying large groups of opponents both on land and in the air. A Direct hit from the Uranium round pierced through several heavily armoured ghouls (who wore bullet proof armour and shields) in the manga, and an estimated dozen ghouls in OVA 2. The incendiary napalm round destroyed the rest of the ghouls in that same sequence. The Harkonnen's muzzle velocity is estimated to be about 1000 - 1100 m/s as other modern anti-tank cannon fire at similar speeds. Below is an example from OVA 2

Now considering that the Harkonnen launches projectiles at a much faster rate then the Jackal which Alucard owns (whose muzzle velocity is estimated to be about 900m/s) then if Seras were to land a direct hit with the Harkonnen, which Anderson would be unable to dodge since he hasn't been shown to dodge or evade bullets from the Casull and Jackal which are slower then the Harkonnen because he tanks them, then just like with the Jackal's irreparable damage to his arm, then the result will be something like this:

Or if Anderson managed to see the large cannon pointed towards him in time or if Seras's third eye/sight were to miss (which is highly unlikely), then something like this might occur

At which point it would be a victory in Seras's favour which would appear to be a certainty at this point.

But what about Alexander's weapons? Will his blessed bayonets affect Seras? And will Anderson's mental control of his bayonets trajectory (he threw them around a corner and deliberately missed Seras's heart in their first meeting at the mansion) be enough to tip the scales? If they do 'tip the scales' will those bayonets be enough to kill Seras? To find this out, we must examine Seras's sire, Alucard, since after becoming a full vampire she appears to have much of the same powers as Alucard such as his shadow masses (although how much remains to be seen). If they affect Alucard then they most certainly will affect Seras (since Alucard is quite obviously better then Seras).

Because this is standard equipment, and because Anderson didn't score any direct hits with his bayonets in their final confrontation without being enhanced by Helena's Nail (which he doesn't have in this fight), then the evidence we must use OVA I and chapter 4-6 of the manga during the confrontation at the mansion.

From what Alucard has stated, they (meaning Alucard and Seras) cannot regenerate from them, which would appear rather obvious since you can't really regenerate which you have a bayonet in the wound. However, when pulled out Alucard was shown to regenerate quite easily. It stands to reason that Anderson's bayonets have an incredible effect on lesser vampires but on true vampires such as Alucard and in this instance, Seras as well, then they cause merely irritable pain and don't do any lasting damage.

Gallery

So the conclusion we can draw from this is that Anderon's bayonets will not affect Seras to the the point of death but will most certainly hinder her. And Anderson's "Exploding Chain" in such a narrow hallway will catch Seras off-guard, but she can just regenerate from such wounds as evidenced by her being shot at point blank range by the Captain's Mauser pistol. However, Anderson can throw large amounts of projectiles as shown:

So is Seras able to dodge Anderson's bayonets and large amounts or projectiles? Especially in such close quarters? From her instances of combat post-blood, it is safe to say that such a question can be answered when a fight in the mansion can be compared to her subsequent fights because those cases are all in similar circumstances (i.e. narrow hallways). From OVA 1,7 and chapter 4, 53 and 81 in the manga, we know that Seras is able to dodge automatic gunfire (something which Anderson is not capable of because his (presumably) nanotechnology allows him to regenerate from such simple wounds, so he rushes forward and tanks them (after all, normal size bullets fail to pierce his flesh). So with this in mind, we know that Seras can dodge Anderson's bayonets and close the distance between them, thus making this a physical brawl (if she doesn't finish him off with the cannon), because unless Anderson can throw bayonets faster then 700 m/s (which is the muzzle velocity of an STG44, which are the guns the Millennium soldiers used, which Seras dodged), then Anderson will not be able to catch her with his bayonets.

Gallery

Now can Seras beat Anderson in a purely physical brawl? A man who has been to stumble even Alucard with his punches? Let us examine her instances of vampire strength against the Nazi soldiers and the Captain and see whether she can. She quite easily sliced apart vampire enhanced Millennium soldiers in OVA 7 and chapter 54 with her fists and shadow blades, and took a direct kick from the Captain to her face (which in The Dawn spilt Alucard in half, and in OVA 8/chapter 59 destroyed his head) in OVA 10 and chapter 84, and survived without any lasting injuries. So the answer is yes she can.

Gallery

Not to mention how during that subsequent fight, we see just how hard her shadow blades can pierce, being able to cut through the Captain's flesh, something which even Walter's wires could not do, and those wires have been known to easily block automatic fire, cut through riot shields, bulletproof armour, and reinforced steel concrete.

Can Anderson dodge her shadow blades? Something which he hasn't seen Alucard use against him (pre-nail)? Considering that Seras was able to cut the captain before he could dodge it, then the answer becomes no, because Anderson has no way to defend himself from those shadow tendrils which can easily tear flesh asunder. The Captain's skin is most certainly harder then Anderson's and those shadows are immune to real-world weaponry like Anderson's bayonets, so it stands to reason that Seras can block his bayonets with her shadows.

Conclusion

If Seras gets a direct hit on Anderson with the Harkonnen cannon then she wins. If Seras can evade all of Anderson's bayonets and get up close to Anderson then she wins. If she uses her shadow tendrils to impale Anderson and then slice him apart, then she wins. If Anderson can somehow impale her with his bayonets before she can react, and then slice her to pieces (we don't know how she would handle decapitation) then he would 'win' since the original post didn't state that victory is achieved through total death of the other opponent. We can extend victory to include incapacitation. But knowing Seras, she isn't going to wait around for death or allow him to have his way with her.

So in this fight between the two, although Anderson certainly is tenacious and has blessed bayonets, and the fight will by no means be an easy one, Seras will win in their confrontation because she has the speed, strength, abilities and weapon.

Winner is Seras Victoria.

@observer25o

You're making up muzzle velocities for Jackal. No numbers were cited for it all. Anderson's reaction speed exceeds that of casual bullet timers like Jan Valentine who dodged the cannon shell and Anderson has the agility to rapidly scale walls. He will dodge a single Harkonnen I, very easily if he has to (which he will because he sees a massive bullet coming his way from a distance).

Alucard outright states that he cannot regenerate from the blessed bayonets. And there is no on-panel evidence of him regenerating. He just endures the damage with the wounds still on him.

Explosive bayonets would blow her up into pieces like he did to the ghouls. You'd be insane to compare them with a single, normal bullet.

You just made another non-sequitur. Anderson's preference to simply tank through things does not contradict his ability to dodge bullets, which his fighting speed is faster than. This guy blitzes casual bullet timers with his bayonets and until you address this, this is another point of yours that has been debunked. And yes, Anderson's bayonets far exceed supersonic speeds.

You still haven't answered why Seras is faster than Anderson, the guy who can fight with Level 0 Alucard in CQC, the guy who easily blitzes Millennium vampires, the guy who outright blitzed Alucard in their first fight. Unless she is faster than him, Seras will just get skewered by bayonets if she gets closer to Anderson as she is making it harder for her to react to them. Just tell me why? Both of them have blitzed casual bullet timers. Both of them have fought with top tiers and kept up with them. What makes Seras come up as the faster one in raw speed?

And you still haven't answered why Seras is exempted from the Hellsing textual narrative, which states that a true man like Anderson will simply overcome vampires. Your argument still does not focus on the most important questions which is why you still haven't convinced BlackestNight nor I.

@blackestnight93:

No, no, no, you can't just go disregarding the instances that blow your hypothesis to shreds (and they do). You have to be able to explain why that would be in character for him to toy around, putting Integra's life at stake, despite the readers/viewers who are familiar with the series knowing how much Alucard values Integra. Hell, he sees her as a gosh darn equal (see the form 0 scene and how he addresses her).

Forgive me, but my earlier assumptions were premeditated on the base assumption that since Alucard did even release his power control restraints or the like, then it meant he was 'holding back.' Alucard (in the manga and OVA) certainly was struggling in his normal form and because he didn't release his power restraints then and there, or show off his impressive arsenal like against any other opponent, then Anderson managed to 'beat' him. I agree with you, he was outdone in the mansion. But what follows is most intriguing, and helps to understand why he 'deliberately' put Seras in danger, it also explains why his regeneration was delayed so much. While Seras was carrying Alucard's head (thrown at him by Anderson in the manga, or picked up by her in the OVA), it melted, and he spoke to her directly, which immediately tells us that he wasn't incapacitated and merely used the entire hunt sequence as an opportunity to try and get Seras to drink his blood by pushing her into a corner (which he chastises her for later when she hesitated). But then what about Integra? Her imminent arrival would certainly mean he had regenerate out now and defend her right? Not necessarily, because from what we've both seen in that scene in the manga's chapter 4-6 and OVA 1, Alucard was watching with his bats, so when Anderson pinned her against the wall, that's when he decided to come in. But of course, why allow Anderson to get so close to killing Integra, even though he was watching the entire time? Why didn't he try to kill Anderson after he insulted her (just like with Maxwell)? Anderson immediately killed the two bodyguards, but then after Integra blocks his bayonets (which is really impressive), he ceases his attack and then keeps talking (his complex character most likely has a underlying respect for strong, independent women). Then when Anderson gloats to Integra, and Integra laughs him off by mentioning Alucard's return, that's when he comes in (most likely because for him 'that's his cue'). After giving Seras another disappointing remark, getting Anderson away from Integra with his bats, he then regenerates (which in this case is from bats) and after gleefully smiling at Anderson (who was sweating from shock during that sequence), Anderson retreats.

Gallery

None of which points to Alucard toying around in this fight. Giving me a play by play of the scene when I have the manga literally right next to me does not make an argument, it doesn't even accomplish anything in regards to lending any support to your argument.

Forgive me, but I will no longer support my previous claim of him 'toying around.' Rather, I will reuse my original term of 'holding back' (In my previous sleep-deprived state, I most likely mixed the two up as the same) because if we were to compare similar instances when he did hold back as well in his normal attire, we see that this is indeed the case. Against Luke Valentine, and Alhambra, he fought with them in his normal attire. If we were to judge those scenes, we can say that they 'beat' him just as much as Anderson did, but unlike with Anderson he didn't do this (chapter 8 and OVA 2):

If Alhambra cut Alucard's head off with his cards, or Luke Valentine cut Alucard's head off with his knife, then would you also say that they 'beat' Alucard like Anderson did at the mansion? Even though Alucard did not go level 1 against Anderson? He was most definitely holding back.

See, now it seems like you're backpedaling a bit. You argue that Alucard was toying around the entire time, now you say his regeneration was hampered from the decapitation (I also believe the bayonets had a factor, but eh, nitpicking at best really). Pick one. You can't be toying around and having issues with your powers. Hell, the manga scans alone still show Alucard visibly struggling while Anderson was beating him (from the sweat to when he got blitzed, to his expression when he was stuck to the wall I already posted the scans earlier). None of which a person who is toying around would do, much less Alucard.

As I mentioned above, I most likely mixed my original term of phrase of Alucard 'holding back' with him toying around the entire time (which is not true, as you proved). Forgive me for my lack of clarity in that regard (I had been writing for 6 hours straight against several people). It is a possiblity that Alucard's regeneration was 'hampered' as you say by decapitation if we were to go by Alucard's statement soon after Anderson left of "It had been awhile since I've had my head cut off." Alucard was visibly struggling (there's no doubt about that) in that form and since those are blessed bayonets, probably the most pain he's felt in a long time. But when you have a benign expression from Alucard soon afterwards, that's probably the moment at which he recognized Anderson as a worthy human.

Except dodging bullets does not mean that she can dodge Anderson's bayonets, because Anderson can clearly throw them faster then bullets, considering that Alucard couldn't even keep track of them in multiple instances (impaling Seras multiple times and setting up his barrier). Also, when he was impaled by them (see mansion fight), he had to pull them out before he could regen. And when Anderson throws them, they impale someone. Seras isn't shrugging off those bayonets, and she isn't dodging them. Also, little to no damage to vampires like Alucard? Really?

In those instances, Seras and Alucard wasn't ready or prepared, they were both surprised by it. But in an instance where Alucard was ready for it, he was able to react and respond accordingly and keep track of them (he pulled out both his guns and shot them down before Anderson could realize it had happened, as evidenced by the fight with level 0 Alucard in OVA 8 and the manga chapter 63). Apologises for the spanish in the last image.

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Indeed, he had to pull them out before he could regenerate (that would seem obvious, since you can't logically regenerate when you have this massive bayonet in your wound, blessed or otherwise). Indeed, when Anderson throws them, they impale someone, but since we know that Seras is fully capable of dodging them, or blocking them with her shadows (they appear to be undamaged by anything physical). She's not 'shrugging them off' when she is caught, but against true vampires like Alucard and Seras, they only cause irritable pain, and damage that can be regenerated from (when pulled out). I mentioned in my new post (to restart/reboot the argument) this:

From what Alucard has stated, they (meaning Alucard and Seras) cannot regenerate from them, which would appear rather obvious since you can't really regenerate which you have a bayonet in the wound. However, when pulled out Alucard was shown to regenerate quite easily. It stands to reason that Anderson's bayonets have an incredible effect on lesser vampires but on true vampires such as Alucard and in this instance, Seras as well, then they cause merely irritable pain and don't do any lasting damage.

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So the conclusion we can draw from this is that Anderon's bayonets will not affect Seras to the the point of death but will most certainly hinder her. And Anderson's "Exploding Chain" in such a narrow hallway will catch Seras off-guard, but she can just regenerate from such wounds as evidenced by her being shot at point blank range by the Captain's Mauser pistol.

Like, what the hell man?

As I mentioned before, since Alucard regenerated soon afterwards without any lasting damage or signs of pain that the effort would inflict on him (as evidenced/implied by the repeated damage and regeneration cycle that Walter forced on him in OVA 9, 10 and chapters 76 to 80) then the bayonets did little damage.

Well, when one side has good evidence, and the other side has nothing more then denial behind their claim, it's kind of the way it is. Present some support to back up your hypothesis and maybe this part of the discussion will have business continuing. Until them, I'm not gonna waste any further time with this portion.

Dismissal of the other side's evidence as attempts to paint it as nothing more then denial is unreasonable and, forgive me, rather arrogant on your part. I have presented my evidence (in greater clarity here). Yourrefusal is now called into question since you appear to be unableto accept the logical conclusion drawn from the evidence that I have obtained.

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@PhantomRant:

You're making up muzzle velocities for Jackal. No numbers were cited for it all.

Forgive me for my lack of clarity in regards to the Jackal's muzzle velocity, as I'll elaborate further. It was never stated how fast the Jackal fires, or how long the bullets are, but we can accurately guess based off of modern weapons that use a similar caliber bullet. From what has been stated, we know that the Jackal fires 13mm explosive hollow point bullets. Thanks to the good folks at wikipedia, we know that most 13mm guns have been rifles used for hunting or in war as either blackpowder charges. Now those guns such as the Spencer or Nitro Express can only fire at a muzzle velocity of 300 - 700 m/s, and since they were made in the 19th to early 20th century, it is safe to say that is not how accurately fast the Jackal fires bullets. So let's look at modern weapons which use 13mm bullets. We know that from the size of the Jackal, it doesn't fire rounds at revolver speeds (which use 12mm rounds at a muzzle velocity of 300-400m/s), and we know that the Jackal is substantially more powerful then the Casull (which, due to its size and 13mm rounds, fires at a muzzle velocity of 600 - 700 m/s, give or take since it's definitely more powerful then a normal Colt or Desert Eagle which fire at 400 - 550 m/s), so therefore we can compare the Jackal's muzzle velocity with other large caliber bullet weapons. We know that weapons such as the 12.7x108mm fire at a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s, we know that weapons such as the .55 Boys fire at at a muzzle velocity of 700 - 900 m/s (depending on the round), the .50 BMG fires at 800 - 920 m/s (depending on the round), the .510 DTC EUROP fires at 910 m/s and weapons such as the 14.5x144mm fires at 1000 m/s. So does the Jackal fire bullets at any of these speeds? With a range of 700 - 1000+ m/s, it would be hard to call. But we have some evidence to support the high speed (800+ m/s) muzzle velocity. We know that the Jackal can shoot off entire limbs (e.g. Luke Valentine's legs) or blow up staircases, someone which the .50 BMG can't do, or a Barrett Sniper rifle which uses the same round. We know that Anderson cannot dodge bullet fire such as the Casull, as evidenced by him always running forward to tank all of them such as in OVA 1, 6, 8, and the manga's chapter 5,6, and 66, and how Alucard just merely pointed the Jackal towards Anderson who made no effort to dodge it (because he couldn't).

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Since we know that the Harkonnen most certainly fires at 1000m/s (as supported by my evidence of other similar caliber weapons) then Anderson will not be able to dodge it.

Anderson's reaction speed exceeds that of casual bullet timers like Jan Valentine who dodged the cannon shell and Anderson has the agility to rapidly scale walls. He will dodge a single Harkonnen I, very easily if he has to (which he will because he sees a massive bullet coming his way from a distance).

Jan Valentine dodged the explosion by the cannon shell by hiding behind his ghouls and then leaping out of the way when it impacted which is not the same as dodging the cannon shell when it's aimed directly at you as evidenced by OVA 2 and Chapter 8 of the manga.

Anderson's speed does not exceed the Casull, the Jackal or the Harkonnen so he will not be able to dodge it.

Alucard outright states that he cannot regenerate from the blessed bayonets. And there is no on-panel evidence of him regenerating. He just endures the damage with the wounds still on him.

Indeed, he cannot regenerate from the blessed bayonets, but only when they're in him. As I showed earlier in the my reboot post, when stabbed by the bayonets, in the next page he's shown to have regenerated. In OVA 1, he is shown to have regenerated, only in a more linear fashion compared to the manga (because we see it happen, rather then it happening between panels).

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Explosive bayonets would blow her up into pieces like he did to the ghouls. You'd be insane to compare them with a single, normal bullet.

Because of how strong her flesh durability is, and how strong the shadow masses are (they appear to be unaffected by anything real-world) as evidenced by her fight against the Captain (where her head withstood a direct kick from the Captain, something even Alucard couldn't withstand), if she were caught by the explosive bayonets and it did damage her, then she will regenerate just like her fight against the Captain as evidenced by OVA 10 and chapter 82, 85 and 86. She is not as weak as Ghouls and The Captain's strength or Modified Mauser Pistol (true muzzle velocity unknown, possibly 450 -500+ m/s) is nothing to be scoffed at. I find your psychological assessment of me to be woefully inaccurate.

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Anderson's preference to simply tank through things does not contradict his ability to dodge bullets, which his fighting speed is faster than. This guy blitzes casual bullet timers with his bayonets and until you address this, this is another point of yours that has been debunked. And yes, Anderson's bayonets far exceed supersonic speeds.

He has not been show to dodge bullets, or been shown to fight at such speeds. Simply saying so without evidence is not convincing.You have failed to address this point, that Anderson's speed does not exceed 'Supersonic', which Seras's has clearly been shown to do. It's not reasonable doubt, if you make things up.

You still haven't answered why Seras is faster than Anderson,

Actually I have, because unlike Anderson, Seras can move at 700+ m/s as evidenced by her dodging of pistol and STG44 gunfire in the narrow hallways of the hellsing mansion. Anderson has not been shown to dodge gunfire, rather his tactics are rushing forward and then slicing the opponent while they're still firing. He is fast, but not fast enough.

the guy who can fight with Level 0 Alucard

That 'fight' was sword on bayonet, and when Alucard brought his guns, Anderson was beaten with one shot by the Jackal (which forced him to use Helena's Nail because he was too weak). Since the Harkonnen moves faster then the Jackal, which Anderson failed to dodge, then Seras will win as I mentioned in my reboot post.

the guy who easily blitzes Millennium vampires

A feat that isn't as impressive as Seras's if we were to compare the two. Anderson sliced apart a Millennium Vampire soldier that was coming towards him, but since Integra (who is not enhanced) was able to do something incredibly similar, not to mention how she blocked Anderson in their first meeting at the mansion, then it loses its credability. He threw several bayonets at Millennium soldiers, but since these artificial vampires couldn't dodge Iscariot bulletfire from their pistols then they're not as fast as they appear. What makes Seras's feat more impressive is that she dodgedtheir gunfire while rushing towards them. Since bullets are smaller, faster and more numerous then Anderson's bayonets then it makes the feat all the more impressive then Anderson's.

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the guy who outright blitzed Alucard in their first fight.

I am astonished that you would compare the two, much less compare Alucard's normal form without release of levels 3-0, to Seras's true vampire form which resembles Alucard's level 1 (in terms of strength, and ability. E.g. Shadow blades, familiar, speed. etc.) Indeed, he beat Alucard's normal form, but since that form is nowhere near as powerful as Seras's true vampire form, then that feat doesn't hold integrity

Unless she is faster than him, Seras will just get skewered by bayonets if she gets closer to Anderson as she is making it harder for her to react to them.

In a pure physical fight, Seras will win without question because she is undoubtedly the stronger one as I mentioned in my reboot post, and the examples I've given of her easily tearing through the Millennium Vampires with her bare hands and shadow blades, something which Anderson needs bayonets to do something similar with. You also failed to regard/mention Seras's shadow tendrils/masses, which I've adequately proven in my reboot post that Anderson has no defenses against, which is another point in Seras's favour of victory.

Just tell me why? Both of them have blitzed casual bullet timers. Both of them have fought with top tiers and kept up with them. What makes Seras come up as the faster one in raw speed?

Different feats and different 'top tiers' does not necessarily equate to the two being identical in terms of significance. As I've explained (supported by evidence) above and in my reboot post, Seras is faster, stronger and better.

And you still haven't answered why Seras is exempted from the Hellsing textual narrative, which states that a true man like Anderson will simply overcome vampires.

The textual narrative has no bearing on the outcome of whether Anderson can beat Seras Victoria in a full fight. And such a narrative can only be applied to Alucard, who 'feels' this way. Seras does not, and will not hold back if she wanted to kill Anderson.

Your argument still does not focus on the most important questions which is why you still haven't convinced BlackestNight nor I.

Convince? No, no, no. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else for that matter. I am explaining my point of view supported by evidence, and any subsequent reply to an issue raised in my conclusion is merely to explain and defend that point of view. From what PhantomRant or BlackestNight have said, you have actually failed to convince me of why Seras Victoria doesn't win who I have adequately proven is faster, stronger and better in every way. The fight won't be easy (no doubt about that) but in the end, Seras will win.

Winner is Seras Victoria.

Seras is superior.