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#51 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: Infamous Second Son was a bit confusing in terms of durability but they sure as hell can easily take on armies. Evident by Cole's found information of Bertrand and his sales of Vemaak and Corrupted. Conduits are a legitimate threat.

What I really talk about is that Alex has never been introduced to conduit abilities. That means he won't be able to adapt to it. His experience with it would probably get him killed since he never knew that it existed. A foreign alien energy that he doesn't even know exists. The reason why he's so low in terms of resistance against conduit elements is that. The conduit bosses had seven years of training and had their own unique powers, not copy powers but their own. The Dup mooks probably only have fewer training or like the Vemaak are unsuited to the power. Some Dup soldiers can't be taken down easily but they're also one of the few that were stronger than the others.

And killing yourself with your own power? Guess Alex can also die to bullets huh. There are limitations to gameplay mechanics. Or that's just an assumption that Delsin can get injured by his own attacks, or keep hitting himself with the same attacks by accident and killing himself.

Really, in the end, no matter what, flesh is organic. Biomass is organic. Biomass if still flesh. Considered animal flesh too. Sure might be some differences but in the end it'll be affected the same way by Delsin's powers. Really, it makes no difference. Alex is still technically skin naked to the powers Delsin has.

And reason why Delsin easily beats Fetch is because he absorbed every neon source around her and attacked her with it instead of letting her do it. Do remember Fetch seemed high on that battle too so that could be why she wasn't draining the neon to heal herself. Even then she still had a lot of resistance to shrug off neon. If you consider the health bar that at least.

And if Alex is so damn heavy to create those huge craters on landing, then how the hell can he jump so high and glide without losing so much blood? Because if he wanted to go that fast flying he'll have to use up so much blood? Or why is it that he easily gets knocked around by blunt attacks from Supreme Hunters or Hunters when he could adapt to those? Or his shield being a default ability and never gaining anything to adapt against the rockets that constantly knock you down fired from everywhere?

Also, another thing for headshot no kill bosses, Gameplay mechanics. To make the game harder so you can't oneshot everyone and win the game. Because it provides no challenge and infamous is known for its challenge. Hell you can easily zap the head off a Corrupted Ravager on infamous 2 if you're pinned down but not when you're standing.

Really, gameplay mechanics are a fickle thing

#52 Edited by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan said:

@w0nd: Infamous Second Son was a bit confusing in terms of durability but they sure as hell can easily take on armies. Evident by Cole's found information of Bertrand and his sales of Vemaak and Corrupted. Conduits are a legitimate threat.

What I really talk about is that Alex has never been introduced to conduit abilities. That means he won't be able to adapt to it. His experience with it would probably get him killed since he never knew that it existed. A foreign alien energy that he doesn't even know exists. The reason why he's so low in terms of resistance against conduit elements is that. The conduit bosses had seven years of training and had their own unique powers, not copy powers but their own. The Dup mooks probably only have fewer training or like the Vemaak are unsuited to the power. Some Dup soldiers can't be taken down easily but they're also one of the few that were stronger than the others.

And killing yourself with your own power? Guess Alex can also die to bullets huh. There are limitations to gameplay mechanics. Or that's just an assumption that Delsin can get injured by his own attacks, or keep hitting himself with the same attacks by accident and killing himself.

Really, in the end, no matter what, flesh is organic. Biomass is organic. Biomass if still flesh. Considered animal flesh too. Sure might be some differences but in the end it'll be affected the same way by Delsin's powers. Really, it makes no difference. Alex is still technically skin naked to the powers Delsin has.

And reason why Delsin easily beats Fetch is because he absorbed every neon source around her and attacked her with it instead of letting her do it. Do remember Fetch seemed high on that battle too so that could be why she wasn't draining the neon to heal herself. Even then she still had a lot of resistance to shrug off neon. If you consider the health bar that at least.

And if Alex is so damn heavy to create those huge craters on landing, then how the hell can he jump so high and glide without losing so much blood? Because if he wanted to go that fast flying he'll have to use up so much blood? Or why is it that he easily gets knocked around by blunt attacks from Supreme Hunters or Hunters when he could adapt to those? Or his shield being a default ability and never gaining anything to adapt against the rockets that constantly knock you down fired from everywhere?

Also, another thing for headshot no kill bosses, Gameplay mechanics. To make the game harder so you can't oneshot everyone and win the game. Because it provides no challenge and infamous is known for its challenge. Hell you can easily zap the head off a Corrupted Ravager on infamous 2 if you're pinned down but not when you're standing.

Really, gameplay mechanics are a fickle thing

he can change his density, he can become hard like stone or light as air...his power isnt just being able to cut things up

why can a teleporter lose his ability to teloport just because his hands are bound together? Why are you unable to head shot a prime FAKE conduit with the chain gun but you assume it will work on Alex? Assumptions . SO basically people are picking and choosing what to accept and what not to accept. IN the cutscene he took a point blank rocket just fine, so its safe to say he can, if we are going by the game play neither of them can, if we are going by the game play neither of them can take bullets. You assume his biomass can't handle being shot at by conduit power...what are they really. Heat, Lazer, rock and what ever digital is? I will go with electricity since they dont do well in water and you can ride radio waves? idk bringing digital to life? That is a pretty hefty power so I will accept that as a tough one to beat. You however still make it sound like Alex is a low level mook who will be vaporized by a neon shot, when the chaingun ones werent even effected by it.

whats even more amusing is 7 years of training and they were beaten by a punk kid with a couple hours with the powers and a chain. You know darn well Alex is higher up on the food chain then a bunch of soldiers with rock armor.... You assume he can't adapt. Literally the whole game was about a virus adapting. Do you know how many characters take on and beat a foreign new existence and win? Actually come to think of it for all we know he could absorb a fake conduit and get their power better then delsin who can only steal real ones powers.

#53 Posted by gingerpenny (899 posts) - - Show Bio

Delsin Rowe after a long tough fight

#54 Edited by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: Even if he can change his density there should be a size change. There should be a loss of blood or something. Yet there's nothing. Either he focuses all his biomass on one part of his body when he 'falls' to make impact and he's lighter than you think, or he's heavier than you think but not as fast.

You can't say both can't be real. One has to be chosen because its impossible to get rid of mass/biomass mid flight and then regain it without taking it from an external source. I mean where does he hid it? The biomass hammerspace?

Again, none of them had dealt with each other's element. That's why. Yes debating is half assumptions, half persuasion and bits and pieces of logic. Yes that's cool, Alex can tank a rocket. Exactly the point why they can damage biomass. If even paper and glass were turned to elements that can damage others, then there's something more on the power. What I believe is that its conduit energy capable of hurting others easily.

I believe Alex can withstand a couple of hits. But if he gets constantly damaged then he will not survive. Either he'll end up restrained by neon which seems very hard to escape from, or get pulverized into energy bits. Delsin shouldn't be able to oneshot Alex, but enough shots would be damaging to Alex.

He won't be withstanding a Radiant Sweep. Any other ability, I'm willing to say he can probably dodge but would be very damaging if it hits him. Still, battles can be finished without killing anyone. Restraining Alex would be a good choice. If not, then Delsin can just vaporize him

#55 Edited by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan said:

@w0nd: Even if he can change his density there should be a size change. There should be a loss of blood or something. Yet there's nothing. Either he focuses all his biomass on one part of his body when he 'falls' to make impact and he's lighter than you think, or he's heavier than you think but not as fast.

Again, none of them had dealt with each other's element. That's why. Yes debating is half assumptions, half persuasion and bits and pieces of logic. Yes that's cool, Alex can tank a rocket. Exactly the point why they can damage biomass. If even paper and glass were turned to elements that can damage others, then there's something more on the power. What I believe is that its conduit energy capable of hurting others easily.

I believe Alex can withstand a couple of hits. But if he gets constantly damaged then he will not survive. Either he'll end up restrained by neon which seems very hard to escape from, or get pulverized into energy bits. Delsin shouldn't be able to oneshot Alex, but enough shots would be damaging to Alex.

He won't be withstanding a Radiant Sweep. Any other ability, I'm willing to say he can probably dodge but would be very damaging if it hits him. Still, battles can be finished without killing anyone. Restraining Alex would be a good choice. If not, then Delsin can just vaporize him

you are talking about logic now? there should be a size change? Ok how does delsins clothes stay intact? How does one actually bring digital pixles to life? Martian man hunter, Vision from Avengers, there are lots of density changers out there, Alex mercer is an entity we do not understand. I dont recall but I am pretty sure you can pick up a bus, and then run up the side of a building with it, which means he retains his strength while being lighter than air. You can pick up a car and still jump insanely high . Alex may not win, but give the guy credit when credit is due. Vaporizing low level conduits is one thing, but the fake ones created by the government are still flesh and blood, and the chain gun ones cant be head shot, the baldy one who runs around cant be head shot, alex is miles beyond those ones. And is radiant sweep something he can always do? do they have access to their finishers right off the bat? if so how durable is alex' armor mode? could it withstand radiant sweep? Could he use his biomass to bind Delsins hands together quick enough to make him powerless who knows. It would be one loong battle, but it's definately not going to be a one sided head shot. The mercer virus is a foreign entity that delsin doesnt understand either. It's more than just punching things, and blade slicing..... that works both ways harnessed correctly you can destroy an entire city with one attack.

#56 Edited by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: Then we can't understand Delsin either. So he casually vaporizes some people but can't vaporize bosses. What the hell does that mean? Again I reside with gameplay challenge. I'll acknowledge Alex as a fast and heavy thing but I won't acknowledge him as a bullet speed character so he won't be blitzing anyone, especially since he needs to get close to attack or kill. I'll acknowledge him being able to have that strength even when running then. Him gliding and carrying a giant tank hulk is a no-no though.

He might be miles beyond them in terms of strength, but he's still, freaking, humanoid. You see those nerves on his web of intrigue? Well he can feel pain. He's more humanoid than others.

And again, thinking back about all those times Delsin faced the people and why he didn't disintigrate the big bosses, I thought about something. Maybe he didn't want to vaporize them because he wants their powers? Feeling sorry for Fetch? Fighting Eugene before he got his powers? Hank's fight was him without experience. And Augustine's pre battle since she was blocking all his shots with concrete. The moment he did get her powers, she became encased in a concrete thing.

Really, what else does that leave? The minibosses that can't be headshotted and supposed to be challenging. You know how anti-climatic and stupid it is for them to be oneshotted so easily? Yeah, gameplay restrictions is really applying a force here. By the way, Delsin was shown to be able to fry someone's head from inside.

Last words here. I love the infamous and prototype franchise and I love the main characters. But really I can only pick one when someone wants to make them fight. They're all badass, but Delsin and Cole's abilities are far too strange to be counterred by Alex

Just noticed this one

whats even more amusing is 7 years of training and they were beaten by a punk kid with a couple hours with the powers and a chain. You know darn well Alex is higher up on the food chain then a bunch of soldiers with rock armor.... You assume he can't adapt. Literally the whole game was about a virus adapting. Do you know how many characters take on and beat a foreign new existence and win? Actually come to think of it for all we know he could absorb a fake conduit and get their power better then delsin who can only steal real ones powers.

And Alex being beaten up by a prototype he just made for the lolz was reasonable too huh. How each infected runner can probably easily kill Alex like James did? Despite Alex having evolved more and eaten more? Don't give me the James ate more evolved people than Alex because that would mean Alex gave him parts of his knowledge only.

Yeah, one good thing about Delsin though. He doesn't have to kill everyone he gets his power from.

#57 Edited by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: You're updating your posts are you? A bit troublesome to reply to something like that

And is radiant sweep something he can always do? do they have access to their finishers right off the bat? if so how durable is alex' armor mode? could it withstand radiant sweep? Could he use his biomass to bind Delsins hands together quick enough to make him powerless who knows. It would be one loong battle, but it's definately not going to be a one sided head shot. The mercer virus is a foreign entity that delsin doesnt understand either. It's more than just punching things, and blade slicing..... that works both ways harnessed correctly you can destroy an entire city with one attack.

You see Concrete boss battle? Yea, tyrant wounded. He'll get those eventually. And really the DUP said they found a way to bind their powers. Probably something had to do with concrete. So its kinda like the biotox element. Only the DUP knows how to bind them and unless Alex eats one, he won't figure out how.

And yes, biomass manipulation is foreign. But Delsin, compared to Alex, deals with more foreign elements than he does. And if Alex can be affected by rockets and explosions, Delsin should be able to affect him easily since all his attacks are amped up versions of 'military weapons' if you look at it from one side

... Great, now I posted too much messages in a row. Might have to get back at you later

#58 Posted by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan: I am off for now. Good civil debate. I enjoyed it :P Enjoy your night people!

#59 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkazrael999: I would think he does have a healing factor but the ability to materialize into smoke definitely helps. I agree with most or all of what you said about video and pretty much had the same guess.

#60 Posted by WarBlade539 (4495 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: You're updating your posts are you? A bit troublesome to reply to something like that

And is radiant sweep something he can always do? do they have access to their finishers right off the bat? if so how durable is alex' armor mode? could it withstand radiant sweep? Could he use his biomass to bind Delsins hands together quick enough to make him powerless who knows. It would be one loong battle, but it's definately not going to be a one sided head shot. The mercer virus is a foreign entity that delsin doesnt understand either. It's more than just punching things, and blade slicing..... that works both ways harnessed correctly you can destroy an entire city with one attack.

You see Concrete boss battle? Yea, tyrant wounded. He'll get those eventually. And really the DUP said they found a way to bind their powers. Probably something had to do with concrete. So its kinda like the biotox element. Only the DUP knows how to bind them and unless Alex eats one, he won't figure out how.

And yes, biomass manipulation is foreign. But Delsin, compared to Alex, deals with more foreign elements than he does. And if Alex can be affected by rockets and explosions, Delsin should be able to affect him easily since all his attacks are amped up versions of 'military weapons' if you look at it from one side

... Great, now I posted too much messages in a row. Might have to get back at you later

Alex is not effected by bullets and rockets. We can see evidence of it in the opening cutscene.
The 'getting harmed by conventional weaponry' thing is just to balance the combat, it's a gameplay mechanic.
I am gonna quote myself from a previous post:-

"No conduit ever demonstrated Alex's raw power or speed. I like Delsin and I believe that if he harnesses Eugene's 'Video' ability to the fullest potential, he will be virtually unstoppable but he hasn't demonstrated the full potential of those abilities in the game.

He cannot restrain Alex. Smoke and fire is inconsequential to Alex. The guy tanks rockets to the face. I agree that Delsin's 'Cinder Blast' is powerful but unless he can deliver simultaneous, unlimited Cinder Blasts, he is not taking Alex.

I also acknowledge that Delsin is potentially impervious to blunt-force trauma or physical harm because his whole body is composed of Smoke (or Neon/Video) particles but that just means Alex can't potentially harm him.

And if Delsin does get harmed by physical force, well, it will take not more than a single punch."

#61 Posted by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: You're updating your posts are you? A bit troublesome to reply to something like that

And is radiant sweep something he can always do? do they have access to their finishers right off the bat? if so how durable is alex' armor mode? could it withstand radiant sweep? Could he use his biomass to bind Delsins hands together quick enough to make him powerless who knows. It would be one loong battle, but it's definately not going to be a one sided head shot. The mercer virus is a foreign entity that delsin doesnt understand either. It's more than just punching things, and blade slicing..... that works both ways harnessed correctly you can destroy an entire city with one attack.

You see Concrete boss battle? Yea, tyrant wounded. He'll get those eventually. And really the DUP said they found a way to bind their powers. Probably something had to do with concrete. So its kinda like the biotox element. Only the DUP knows how to bind them and unless Alex eats one, he won't figure out how.

And yes, biomass manipulation is foreign. But Delsin, compared to Alex, deals with more foreign elements than he does. And if Alex can be affected by rockets and explosions, Delsin should be able to affect him easily since all his attacks are amped up versions of 'military weapons' if you look at it from one side

... Great, now I posted too much messages in a row. Might have to get back at you later

Delish is effected by the same bullets, rockets and conventional means. they both are...so being stabbed by something powerful enough would kill him too.He can heal, but if you throw a rock big enough or hard enough from him a lot of his health drains. Stand there and let the concrete boss hurl a large rock at you. Takes a large chunk of health off...it's not a magic rock or anything, its literally dibre on the battle field being flung at you... If you impale him with a spike made out of biomass forgein virus tendrills then its safe to assume that will harm him. Delsin still has orgins and flesh, so the same argument about alex can be made about delsin. At the start of the game he was knocked out for a week.... Delsin doesn't deal with forgein elements...he deals with pretty much every day things you find in the city. Everything used to recharge him was found in the city, the raysphere was man made. Conduits are natural born.

His abilities are just as foreign as Alexs are. You dont know the effect being stabbed by alex is, maybe he is venomous? when he cuts a human they just die so its not like his powers were explained in depth. You limit Alex because of a lack of info, but not Delsin? Why not? When you don't know the answer to something about Alex it doesn't count but for delsin that works in his favor?

as for his rock power, isnt the only way he can recharge that by draining another rock conduit? so is that even an option. If he drains that power then he's done, he better make it count.

#62 Edited by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan and @w0nd are you guys arguing whether they can absorb each others abilities? If so I'll put my two cents in. Alex's power allows for him to absorb other beings genetics and take there knowledge, skills, abilities, appearances, etc. delsins abilities allow for him to have access to memories and absorb powers but I would make the argument that Alex could take delsins powers but delsin couldn't take Alex's. Mercers abilities allow for the absorption of a wider range of ability as well as malleability to those things because of his genetics. Since Delsins abilities have to do with a certain gene that makes him different Alex would absorb and combine that gene with his own DNA. Delsins abilities allow for him to absorb the abilities of other conduits because there has to be a common factor between him and the people whose powers he are stealing ( hence the conduit gene). if the conduit gene wasn't a factor than he could absorb the abilities of another species, or the skills and knowledge of his brother. delsin shouldn't be able to mimic the powers of anyone who doesn't have the conduit gene like peter petrelli shouldn't be able to mimic the powers of anyone who doesn't have the heroes gene. while Alex could take supermans abilities since his body would take in what makes superman special and add it to his own DNA sequence.

#63 Posted by GhostRider2 (3268 posts) - - Show Bio

Alex wins all rounds

#64 Posted by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperlight: oh nope i wasn't arguing about if they can absorb each others abilities. I am just saying Alex is more durable then a regular dup. People say vaporzing him would work, when it didn't even work on the chain gun dup's so what they are saying is Alex mercer has less durability then a weak drone?

#65 Posted by Cjdavis103 (8557 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: no none was saying it waas going to end in one shot but the fact that it can distigrate people says it will hurt Alex multible shots should be more than enough to put him down

Online
#66 Posted by DeathHero61 (5214 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see how mercer is getting taken down.

#67 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperlight

And yes, agree with your part on copying abilities. However if Alex consumed so much people, then wouldn't some of them have the conduit gene? But he never knew since he never knew of the existence nor anyone else? Or its simply incompatible and the conduit gene was evolved by his virus. And if the conduit gene is involved and Delsin grasps his hands, well that's one way for Delsin to gain bio-powers.

Probably the only reason why Alex can't use conduit powers is because his body is incompatible and using them will really mess up his biomass body.

@w0nd Actually if you look at his first time being shot, you see the bullet exiting through his body. No blood or anything, just smoke. So really, he won't be cut up to pieces. Sure it'll damage him but he won't die in one hit. Just saying, all those times he can be meleed and shot to death is gameplay challenge. Really, if he slams to the ground from a very high elevation and still greatly damage the area around him without taking damage, that's a bit of a durability feat. And if people still insist that Delsin can be shot to death, well I'll say so can Alex.

Alex venomous? Well I know he can infect people and probably do something like a toxic effect. But what's the use of that when everyone says he oneshots everyone. I don't limit Alex so simply. I know him well so I'm not just limiting him for the lolz. And Delsin, well really he's harder to limit since he's in a league different compared to Alex. In a way he's just harder to understand if you go too deep. That's why I reside with 'he's a body of element so he regenerates from the same element' and him taking damage is gameplay probably. Or conduit energy. Conduit energy like pope said before. The same one that could damage the beast when conventional weapons don't work.

Which is pretty stupid since there's concrete everywhere. Same reason why Delsin won't just absorb the video memory from his phone to get that power, or to bring a cigarette to go smoke. But I really say no to Delsin using concrete. Not the best choice but it does reduce all damage taken and if he can do something like Augustine, well he might flick off Alex well enough.

@darkazrael999

Agree with mostly everything you said. Except the last one. If Delsin was truly made out of an element then he can just redrain the element to heal. Getting an arm cut off would really hurt like hell, but again he's elements mostly. So if he drains enough of an element he'll probably heal it back. Really, its confusing for now. Maybe SP will clear it up later

#68 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan: well in the prototype universe the conduit gene doesn't exist but I would assume it would be compatible because conduits only have small differences between baseline humans a few being the conduit genes and the affect it has on there genetics. the mercer virus is built for adaptability and delsin is much closer on a genetic level to humans than alex is regular humans. but since alex can absorb regular humans I would assume he could absorb a conduit gene and apply said powers. on a similar note if alex absorbed the conduit gene and del sin tried to absorb his power, he would only take the changes made by the conduit gene, not the virus

#69 Posted by leonkarlen123 (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't tried the games yet but i played Infamous 2 a couple hundred hour so...

From the trailer he is very impressive but i care to wait until i buyed it

#70 Posted by WarBlade539 (4495 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan: I am gonna quote myself again, mate.

"Well, do you remember when you have to face those drug dealers for the first time in that tunnel? And Delsin get's shot in the chest, point-blank, by that goon. And he recovers right after. That 'healing factor' that he has; I think that it's not so much healing but more of a side-effect of his whole body being composed of Smoke-Particles.

I came to the conclusion that upon activating a specific power, Delsin automatically changes the composition of entire physique. For example:- Upon activating 'Smoke', he can make it so that his entire body is composed of 'Smoke/Ash' particles as evidenced by when he uses his 'Smoke Dash' or 'Orbital Drop' maneuver. And he hasn't mastered his abilities to the fullest. I believe that upon mastering them, he can be impervious to physical attack (just change to smoke everytime someone is about to throw a punch, just like Marvel's Sandman does) and he may not have to keep draining Smoke or Neon after every 5 minutes of combat."

Hope that cleared up what I was trying to say.

#71 Posted by BEYONDERGOD (681 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

@undinehuntertitan said:

@w0nd:

@w0nd said:

@undinehuntertitan said:

@hyperlight: @beyondergod: You guys do realize there is no way for Alex to actually attack him physically if Delsin decides to just blink around turning into elements?

Not to mention he vaporizes people in one hit. Or restrain him. Which should count as ko. Works on stronger conduits too. And weird mechanic but the Radiant Sweep alongside the neon grenades should be the most effective way to restrain Alex, or kill vaporize him.

Round 1 I give to Delsin despite Alex's advantage. Delsin can't be touched if he has his smoke shift ability and he'll eventually be able to restrain Alex

Round 2 Neon win

Round 3 Neon win

Round 4 Do you mean he has infected with him? Because I really see no difference aside from strength. Neon win

Round 5 well, vaporizing time

those neon grenades dont work on high level conduits, and i am sure alex mercer is stronger than anyone of those tank conduits....so...yeah, try to vaporize the boss in that game , see what happens. Nothing.

They're conduits. With elements in their bodies that isn't natural. Such as lightning, concrete and other elements. At least that's what they say for prime conduits. So naturally they have a resistance against it for being made out of the element they specialize in. The DUP mooks were probably too weak to have much element in their body. Alex on the other hand is still flesh

they were rock, even when the armor isn't up you head shot a high level one and nothing happens. Alex mercer is flesh but his body mass is like concrete, he might as well be stone. when he lands he makes craters....when he steps on cars they crumble. He casually steps off a building and cars flip over when he lands . And if what you are saying is true, it wouldn't make sense. You use a neon power to beat the neon conduit, someone who has had their power for years, they should have a higher resistance to it wouldnt you think? you use rock to beat a rock one, should also have a higher resistance to it. Delsin had his arms bound and he was unable to use his powers at all, no teleportation no nothing, why because his hands were bound up? makes no sense to me but fair enough that's a weakness he has apparently. Conduits are durable, yes, but they don't all have the same power, they aren't all equal. Durabilty is what is is, and Alex is pretty darn durable. And technically it's bio mass. Different then regular flesh.

Game battles are hard because the only feats you have are in cutscenes and gameplay, which totally contradict each other.

all of these reasoning are speculations of course. Comparing Alex mercer to a low level drone instead of a prime is insulting. He took a grenade launcher and blocked it with his body, and then rook a rocket launcher point blank....seems like he is pretty tough to me. I've died in infamous by blowing myself up many times with my own power. If you want Alex to lose that's one thing but come on....comparing him to those low level drones....come on! he was the final boss of the second game smh

Biomass Armor? which is unlimited Vs Rock Armor? which is 15 secs

#72 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperlight: No, unless Alex specifically gets a ray sphere or has the same power as delsin then he won't be using conduit powers even if he has the conduit gene. But if he improves it somehow with his conduit gene, or its naturally improved because he's a virus, then Delsin might get that 'infected' and 'evolved' gene. Then again it was a silly suggestion anyway

@darkazrael999 And yes dark I agree with you.

#73 Posted by Hollow_Point (319 posts) - - Show Bio

delsin takes all rounds with mild difficulty at most...

#75 Edited by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

@cjdavis103 said:

@w0nd: no none was saying it waas going to end in one shot but the fact that it can distigrate people says it will hurt Alex multible shots should be more than enough to put him down

except that people literally said "he could vaporize him" and left it at that lol. They didn't elaborate.

Is this a Delsin with full mastery of his powers..or all they just activated? Because by the end of the game although he had new powers he was still asking the others if they could teach him some things.

hmm after playing the game for a 3rd time I am still leaning towards Alex. I am going by things strictly in cut scenes because well gameplay the character is weak simply so you can die.

Strength: well all seen how strong they both are, durability is a different thing. Delsin has fast healing, gunshot wounds , and fall from great distance.

the first time he was shot he fell over i am going to just assume that was a reaction to being shot, instinct.

Later in the game hank punched him and knocked him out....

He couldn't hold his brother up on the bridge

Eugene told him to catch something the size of a small trailer and he admitted he couldn't

Later in the game hank punched him and knocked him out....

So I am going to assume with either blunt trauma he can be knocked out, or if enough damage is done to him he can be killed. He has a fast healing power not invincibility

Alex stood there and took a rocket launcher and grenade launcher point blank

Delsin couldn’t use his powers or run for that matter with rock on his arm. Some argue it’s special conduit concrete.

Well then what about the rocks that were laying around the battle field that he had to avoid being hit by as well. The whole city isn’t conduit concrete.

Reggie shot one and Delsin had to jump out of the way...

Delsin has rock armor, like someone said before it last like 15 seconds, and if he drains that ability he can’t absorb anymore apparently unless he beats a dup.

You can argue this by saying Delsin is new and is still growing, and I am willing to accept this. A full powered Delsin with knowledge is a whole other story

"Delsin can go invisible and attack" Alex has thermal vision\

Alex also has no vital organs or bones. Someone mentioned he is still flesh and bone. No he is not, he is bio mass, and applying logic and science to how that works is crazy...we are talking about conduits and virus super humans here.

#76 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan: that would be true if delsins conduit gene wasn't active already and he didn't have the associated powers. alex would absorb an active gene as well as the skills, knowledge, and abilities of delsin.

#77 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperlight: Alright you lost me on your second sentence, can't continue this debate now since I'm going on a misaka and gunha vs cole cav to prepare an argument but I'll say this. Delsin's gene was copying powers and it activated against someone with already active powers. And I think we should ditch the alex being able to absorb conduit genes since we're going to end up on a debate about that instead of Alex vs Delsin

#78 Posted by ttino2 (207 posts) - - Show Bio

Delsin reminds me of a complicated version of rogue

#79 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio
#80 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: Just here to reply for a bit. I'm a bit busy so I'll respond to this before continuing any further

Strength: well all seen how strong they both are, durability is a different thing. Delsin has fast healing, gunshot wounds , and fall from great distance.

the first time he was shot he fell over i am going to just assume that was a reaction to being shot, instinct.

Later in the game hank punched him and knocked him out....

PIS probably. Or just plot hole. The guy could get hit by rockets and run it off.

He couldn't hold his brother up on the bridge

Eugene told him to catch something the size of a small trailer and he admitted he couldn't

Reggie? You mean on the first part? Because he carried him fine. Then in the second part, he was being encased in concrete. Which seemed pretty strange since the concrete was heavy and can block bullets and rockets, maybe Augustine's influence on it broke?

So I am going to assume with either blunt trauma he can be knocked out, or if enough damage is done to him he can be killed. He has a fast healing power not invincibility

I think he takes less damage from blunt force. But can still get koed if takes enough damage

Alex stood there and took a rocket launcher and grenade launcher point blank

Delsin couldn’t use his powers or run for that matter with rock on his arm. Some argue it’s special conduit concrete.

Like that virus used on Alex that prevented him from using his powers which required him to head to that doctor. Yeah, since the DUP's been around for 7 years, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that its specifically made against conduits, like that handcuffs from One Piece

Well then what about the rocks that were laying around the battle field that he had to avoid being hit by as well. The whole city isn’t conduit concrete.

Reggie shot one and Delsin had to jump out of the way...

I'm not sure what you're saying here of Reggie shooting one.

Delsin has rock armor, like someone said before it last like 15 seconds, and if he drains that ability he can’t absorb anymore apparently unless he beats a dup.

Isn't that seemingly gameplay limitations? He can just drain the concrete on the ground

You can argue this by saying Delsin is new and is still growing, and I am willing to accept this. A full powered Delsin with knowledge is a whole other story

"Delsin can go invisible and attack" Alex has thermal vision\

Except for Delsin leaves behind a realistic decoy and Delsin can use invisibility all of a sudden

Alex also has no vital organs or bones. Someone mentioned he is still flesh and bone. No he is not, he is bio mass, and applying logic and science to how that works is crazy...we are talking about conduits and virus super humans here.

Yeah, conduits are kinda like that. Except for with elements. And really, we often have to use logic in games. Hell Prototype can be easily applied logic whenever someone wants to. Why is he still wearing clothes? Obviously biomass. And Alex might be biomass mostly, but he's still mostly human. He has nerves, see web of intrigue. Logic controls a debate sometimes you know

#81 Edited by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan said:

@w0nd: Just here to reply for a bit. I'm a bit busy so I'll respond to this before continuing any further

Strength: well all seen how strong they both are, durability is a different thing. Delsin has fast healing, gunshot wounds , and fall from great distance.

the first time he was shot he fell over i am going to just assume that was a reaction to being shot, instinct.

Later in the game hank punched him and knocked him out....

PIS probably. Or just plot hole. The guy could get hit by rockets and run it off.

He couldn't hold his brother up on the bridge

Eugene told him to catch something the size of a small trailer and he admitted he couldn't

Reggie? You mean on the first part? Because he carried him fine. Then in the second part, he was being encased in concrete. Which seemed pretty strange since the concrete was heavy and can block bullets and rockets, maybe Augustine's influence on it broke?

So I am going to assume with either blunt trauma he can be knocked out, or if enough damage is done to him he can be killed. He has a fast healing power not invincibility

I think he takes less damage from blunt force. But can still get koed if takes enough damage

Alex stood there and took a rocket launcher and grenade launcher point blank

Delsin couldn’t use his powers or run for that matter with rock on his arm. Some argue it’s special conduit concrete.

Like that virus used on Alex that prevented him from using his powers which required him to head to that doctor. Yeah, since the DUP's been around for 7 years, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that its specifically made against conduits, like that handcuffs from One Piece

Well then what about the rocks that were laying around the battle field that he had to avoid being hit by as well. The whole city isn’t conduit concrete.

Reggie shot one and Delsin had to jump out of the way...

I'm not sure what you're saying here of Reggie shooting one.

Delsin has rock armor, like someone said before it last like 15 seconds, and if he drains that ability he can’t absorb anymore apparently unless he beats a dup.

Isn't that seemingly gameplay limitations? He can just drain the concrete on the ground

You can argue this by saying Delsin is new and is still growing, and I am willing to accept this. A full powered Delsin with knowledge is a whole other story

"Delsin can go invisible and attack" Alex has thermal vision\

Except for Delsin leaves behind a realistic decoy and Delsin can use invisibility all of a sudden

Alex also has no vital organs or bones. Someone mentioned he is still flesh and bone. No he is not, he is bio mass, and applying logic and science to how that works is crazy...we are talking about conduits and virus super humans here.

Yeah, conduits are kinda like that. Except for with elements. And really, we often have to use logic in games. Hell Prototype can be easily applied logic whenever someone wants to. Why is he still wearing clothes? Obviously biomass. And Alex might be biomass mostly, but he's still mostly human. He has nerves, see web of intrigue. Logic controls a debate sometimes you know

Erm alex is not human at all...he is literally the virus that thinks he is human, it thinks it's Alex mercer. He has no internal organs at all lol, he can warp his body, re route mass, fly. He is basically....this is going to sound stupid but a majin buu, there is nothing human about him. the only human thing he has left are memories.


Also the clothes he is wearing is just his biomass still lol...like mystique in the X-men movies, the symbiote from spider-man or the blue beetle armor...it makes clothes out of itself.

#82 Edited by CaineShaw (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: I'm almost certain Alex could get out of Delsin's range before he hits the ground.

#83 Posted by CaineShaw (22 posts) - - Show Bio
#84 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd:

Don't forget the brain on Alex. Otherwise he won't be keeping all those memories. Remember, Prototype is a science oriented universe. And even then they're still pretty close to modern times/realistic as possible

Yeah, isn't that what I was saying?

#85 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

The idea that Delsin could beat Alex is nearly laughable. Alex is much, MUCH, faster, stronger, more durable, and has nearly as many ways to attack as Delsin. Delsin's ability to instakill human and low level Pseudo-Conduits can't be used as evidence that he could do the same against Alex: All Conduits have a durability boost simply because they're Conduits, and Delsin never vaporizes a single one of them. Even Augustine, after her... misdemeanor. Even specially high-powered Pseudo-Conduits are invulnerable to the technique.

If Delsin can't use the power against enemies with such vastly inferior durability to Alex, it doesn't stand a chance of scratching Alex himself. As for other techniques effectiveness and Delsin's durability by comparison to Alex's, yeah, in the first Prototype, Alex can be hurt by bullets just like Delsin can. But go check out how many bullets Alex can take compared to Delsin. Delsin has to duck for cover after a few seconds of automatic fire courtesy of a few dudes. Alex can literally stand in the middle of a battlefield and be fired upon by a veritable battalion of soldiers for upwards of five minutes before having to move. And that's WITHOUT his armor or shield. Prototype 2 Alex, on the other hand? Forget it. Bullets aren't scratching him. Period.

But that's just a comparison of durability, which I suppose really isn't in question. About Delsin's other powers...

Smoke will get him killed even faster than Neon: It's designed for close range combat. If Alex is close enough to Delsin for Smoke to be effective AT ALL, the fight is already over, in Alex's favor. Video's his best bet, solely because he can turn invisible and bolt.

For a play by play on the powers, Alex has an answer to each of Delsin's. Smoke, Delsin's close range? That's Alex's specialty, he's got a number of combat options there, but let's jot up Claws as his equivalent here. Neon? Alex has the Whipfist. Not as fast, obviously, but if Delsin's tagged with it, Alex is pulling him into his range. Video? Delsin wants to try and get close with invisibility before whipping out a blade construct, Alex's Blade is a lot bigger and a lot meaner. Concrete? That power is half baked at best, Delsin can't do much with it. Sure, he can armor up and charge, but Alex can do that with unlimited range, a lot tougher, and just all around better. And given Alex cracks concrete just by landing on it, I doubt Delsin's going to be restraining him with it.

As for the argument that Delsin's basically intangible with Smoke, or faster with Neon, or has better air time with Video, only the last one is even debatable. While yeah, Delsin's intangible with his Smoke Dash, it's extremely short range means, again, if he's in a situation where has to use, it's already too late. Alex is too fast and his attacks too big for Delsin to dodge with that dash, he'll be hit when he comes out of it. As for Neon letting him put some distance between them, not a chance. Base level, no upgrades Alex? MAYBE. MAYBE. EVERY speed upgrade after that? Oh, Delsin's not outrunning that speed. At best, I think he's intangible in Neon Form too, so at best, he'll be able to just keep running, invulnerable to attack. And given it doesn't burn energy, he CAN do that for a very long time. But Alex is not only keeping pace with him while he runs, he's OUTpacing Delsin. He'll be there when Delsin stops, for whatever reason.

In regards to Video's movement, if Delsin hits an antenna for some air time, combined with his wings, yeah, he MIGHT be able to cover more aerial distance than Alex. But even that's a big maybe, and requires Delsin to reach the top of a building to hit an antenna. If he tries that with Neon, Alex has got him when he stops to switch powers. Smoke, Delsin might be able to pull it of if he's able to hit a vent then an antenna, but again, big if.

What else... OH, Delsin's Karmic Bombs. Alex has an answer to those too: His Devastators. And unlike Delsin having to build up his Karmic Bombs by striking Alex, Alex can launch them whenever he's at full health. And they aren't called 'Devastators' for nothing. They're consistently shown capable of collapsing buildings, and generally cover the length of a city block. So as soon as the battle starts, Alex can launch one instantly. Which, admittedly, he's only likely to do in the final round.

Not to mention that even if, by some miracle, Delsin manages to overcome ALL this and seriously injure Alex, Alex's Adrenaline will kick in, allowing him to launch ANOTHER Devastator, which he WILL in every single round.

And ALL this. ALL THIS. Is without bringing up how Delsin has a limited supply of power, and will definitely have to stop at some point to recharge or switch powers, at which point Alex will close the distance and tear him apart with his bare hands.

In summary: Delsin lacks the firepower to hurt Alex. Alex has more than enough physical power to hurt Delsin. Delsin lacks the speed to escape Alex. Alex has more than enough speed to run Delsin down. Delsin will need to recharge his powers. Alex will not. None of these rounds Delsin is capable of winning.

#86 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

They're conduits. With elements in their bodies that isn't natural. Such as lightning, concrete and other elements. At least that's what they say for prime conduits. So naturally they have a resistance against it for being made out of the element they specialize in. The DUP mooks were probably too weak to have much element in their body. Alex on the other hand is still flesh

They never showed resistance, as far as I recall - at least resistance beyond general durability. Delsin was able to hurt Hank, and vice-versa. Cole and Kessler could hurt each other. In the Good Ending, Cole can hurt Kuo with ice powers, and Kuo can hurt him; same for Nix. I remember having this discussion before - because Cole and Kessler could hurt one another, Cole is not necessarily immune / resistant to electrical abilities. Same applies to Delsin.

In fact, the final fight with Augustine is further proof of this. Delsin was using the concrete powers against Augustine, and Augustine was using them on Delsin after he obtained his powers. So, no, there's no real proof that they are resistant to their own powers. Quite the contrary, actually - there is more evidence to suggest that they are not resistant.

#87 Posted by Hollow_Point (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Thats a good point. I think that the element has to be used by a conduit of the same power to hurt another conduits. The element itself can't hurt a conduit, otherwise, cole would be injured instead of healed by absorbing electricity...

#88 Edited by w0nd (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan said:

@w0nd:

Don't forget the brain on Alex. Otherwise he won't be keeping all those memories. Remember, Prototype is a science oriented universe. And even then they're still pretty close to modern times/realistic as possible

Yeah, isn't that what I was saying?

it's not really realistic....like...at all, it's made up science to suit the game. When I told you about biomass you didn't believe me at first and went on about how extra mass has to come from some where.

#89 Edited by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: I agree with most of what you said and that alex wins but are we using particular game mechanics? because I am pretty sure delsin could use all of his powers at the same time

@hollow_point: my opinion is its not the elements themselves but the force applied by the element that does the damage. for example, caught off guard, explosions can still hurt Human Torch because of the concussive force and impact, not the fire itself

#90 Edited by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with most of what you said and that alex wins but are we using particular game mechanics? because I am pretty sure delsin could use all of his powers at the same time

I don't think we can make that assumption in Delsin's case. Delsin's never shown the ability to use multiple powers simultaneously, or sustain a charge for one power while using another. In every case, whenever he wants to use one power, he has to temporarily sacrifice his ability to use the others. Alex, by comparison, we CAN assume to be able to use multiple powers simultaneously, since he always has access and can switch to all of his abilities (Cancer notwithstanding), there's no real reason he shouldn't be able to use, say, Claws and Blades together aside from game mechanics.

Am I being clear? I feel like that's not completely coherent...

#91 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Thats a good point. I think that the element has to be used by a conduit of the same power to hurt another conduits. The element itself can't hurt a conduit, otherwise, cole would be injured instead of healed by absorbing electricity...

It doesn't have to be used specifically by a Conduit. Fake Conduits work, too, such as the DUP soldiers.

It's more a matter of raw elements vs refined / weaponized elements. It doesn't matter if the person is a Conduit or not - just the form that the element takes.

#92 Posted by Hollow_Point (319 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I haven't played second son yet, so i didn't know about the fake conduits

#93 Edited by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: so those beings in the DUP didn't have the conduit gene, that doesn't make sense but okay

#94 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: so those beings in the DUP didn't have the conduit gene, that doesn't make sense but okay

Nope. That's why Delsin couldn't get any powers from them. It's implied that, somehow, Augustine endowed some soldiers with the concrete powers. It's not explained as to how that happened. Of course, it's possible that they use tech which mimics those powers, but still.

#95 Edited by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: id more likely consider tech, since something has to be different about their genetics in order to hold onto abilities. in infamous 2 the vermaak squad had conduit genes so it made sense for them to be able to be endowed with abilities

#96 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: id more likely consider tech, since something has to be different about their genetics in order to hold onto abilities. in infamous 2 the vermaak squad had conduit genes so it made sense for them to be able to be endowed with abilities

I just found it. Delsin and Reg say that the government / Augustine infused her soldiers with the powers. So it's not tech; just artificial... somehow, I guess. They say it when Delsin enters Seatle (I started playing on the evil / infamous alignment).

I don't know if it's true, but the wiki compares them to the Vermaak soldiers.

#97 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: did it mention that her powered soldiers have the conduit gene?

#98 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: did it mention that her powered soldiers have the conduit gene?

I do not recall. I'll see what I can find out.

Interestingly, they make the distinction that Augustine and the like are prime conduits. Now I would have to play inFamous 2 again, but I remember John saying something like that, too: that there are prime conduits, but a large portion of the population have the gene, but they don't develop powers naturally - which is why John was awakening their powers in New Marais. So it's possible that those DUP soldiers were the same thing.

#99 Posted by Hyperlight (5429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I think the definition of a prime conduit are those whose powers activated naturally or something like that. I think its implied col's powers would have came out naturally the ray sphere just worked faster and gave him a boost.

#100 Posted by JediXMan (29518 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I think the definition of a prime conduit are those whose powers activated naturally or something like that. I think its implied col's powers would have came out naturally the ray sphere just worked faster and gave him a boost.

Absolutely. Kessler's powers developed naturally. However, he exposed Cole to the Ray Sphere so that he could learn and develop those powers earlier than Kessler did, so that he would be stronger than Kessler in order to fight the Beast (I still want to know how the Beast was created in Kessler's timeline, though. I'd love a Kessler prequel game).

What's implied is that a lot of humans have a dormant Conduit gene that, probably. won't be revealed unless they are altered by an outside force (the Vermaak guys, for example). Then again, I believe Kuo's powers only came out because of the experiments, but she knew she was a Conduit earlier than that. I'm pretty sure Kuo is a Prime Conduit.

Eh. They're a little loose with the rules.