Alex Mercer Vs Cole MacGrath

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DarthAznable

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I hate debating against Prototype fans.

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Pope052

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@darthaznable:

Why, because we share a different opinion backed up with reason?

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Linark

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DarthAznable

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@pope052 said:

@darthaznable:

Why, because we share a different opinion backed up with reason?

Haha cute. But no. Because most of you will instantly just say "stomp" for whoever they're up against.

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godofnick

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@darthaznable: Don't just pin that on Prototype fans, 90% of comicvine does it too haha.

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Pope052

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@darthaznable:

Well I for one don't say "stomp" if the Prototypes are up against anyone they'd obviously lose to, however in this battle Mercer heavily outmatches Cole based on actual feats and to actually hurt him, Cole would need to exert himself where as a casual kick from Mercer would send Cole into a coma at least.

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godofnick

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#207  Edited By godofnick

@pope052: No, not one kick, don't make it sound like this would be extremely easy for Alex, even if he were to win, it wouldn't be a total stomp or something he'd win easily. Cole is no pushover, and has defeated put out enough power to defeat the Beast, and has high durability as well. Not on par with Alex, but enough to not get him killed right away. Even if Alex were to beat Cole it would be but with the exception of Beast Cole which is assumed to be used in this thread, as Beast Cole would massacre Alex.

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DarthAznable

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@godofnick: That's why I said most. I am aware a lot of viners do it as well. Doesn't make it any less annoying. lol I'd beat there are guys who would say Karate Kid would stomp Alex.

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godofnick

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@darthaznable: That's okay, I was on website where a guy was trying to debate between Cole and Delsin, and he literally just insulted me and called me a "butthurt cole fanboy" and I'm too stupid to see his "valid points" which consisted of Delsin getting DLC powers and Cole being able to die by water. I'll take people saying "stomp" over that crap anyday.

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DarthAznable

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@godofnick Both versions of Cole are superior to Delsin in every way. More power output, variety in his given power set, easier energy refill source, he's taken out far greater threats, has more fighting skill and experience. Delsin's strongest opponent as of now is the concrete woman. Cole has taken out the Beast , various other conduits, an army of militia, mutants, etc. Delsin just doesn't live up to the inFamous legacy honestly. Oh and Cole was a vampire.

@pope052 Considered Cole has been hit by rpgs, can fall off building without getting hurt, can take gunfire for a short amount of time, has very good agility and parkour skill, I doubt he's going to let Mercer even do that in the first place. Cole is said to have a very high pain tolerance and durability even before getting his powers.

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godofnick

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#212  Edited By godofnick

@pope052: I wouldn't go as far as to say that. If we're using Good Cole at the end of inFAMOUS 2 (obviously before he dies) then there is no need to amp him, as I think the fight could go either way between the two.

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godofnick

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@darthaznable: I know, Cole would wreck Delsin but this thread isn't about that so let's keep it to ourselves haha. Sorry for bringing it up.

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Linark

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I dont get why saying a character stomps other character when it actually does is stupid. I too dont think Alex just curbstomps Cole, but after playing the games theres nothing that gave me the idea that cole would have any posibility.

And calling someone fanboy when you are also trying to defend your character is funny. If someone would jsut give stupid arguments that made no sense, ok. But people are giving real feats that proove Mercer can win. That it doesnt match your opinion doesnt entitle you to call anyone fanboy. It actually makes you the fanboy here.

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Pope052

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#215  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

Mercer's casual kick has sent a military chopper to the ground on contact causing it to explode, Cole doesn't have enough feats to support that he'd be able to stand up to Mercer lacking the physicals. It'd only be a difficult fight for Alex if Cole could keep up or properly damage him but based on feats, he doesn't come close to that margin and he's not in the same ballpark as Mercer in anything really. Cole defeated the Beast but don't act as if it wasn't plot driven, John never intended to use his full power or else he'd have wasted Cole with a single blast but he didn't, because of the plot. All of Mercer's enemies went for the kill, and failed, less Heller. I'd argue that less the Beast, either Prototype could solo the Infamous verse. I know what i'm talking about when I say Mercer could end the fight in a single hit, I have played and completed both franchises more times than I could count.

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Pope052

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@darthaznable:

I never implied Cole wasn't durable, but just not the requirement in order to withstand a hit from Alex is all i'm saying.

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godofnick

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#217  Edited By godofnick

@pope052: Cole's casual electric volt managed to send down a military chopper to the ground on contact as well, and not to mention as he shot the blast he passed out (not due to the blast, just because he had absorbed a blast core before, and he always passes out upon absorbing one) So, don't act like Cole isn't powerful enough to damage Alex. Beast had enough trouble trying to even hit Cole with a blast, so there's no proof saying he didn't use his full powers, as when your life is on the line usually you'd give it everything you got. Cole had been squeezed by the Beast's both hands, and he still managed to pull out an Ionic Lightning attack. He also survived a pickup truck crash into a transport as he rid the back of the pickup truck near the beginning of the game, and managed to crawl away, which is fairly impressive since he was very weak at the beginning of inFAMOUS 2. Cole gets shot at by all sorts of weaponry on a daily basis, and he has taken hits from the Beast, Kessler, and even Kuo, who are all powerful in their own way. Not to mention he never takes fall damage no matter how high he drops. Like when he did a thunder drop off of Alden's Tower, which was HUGE. He's more durable than you're putting him out to be.

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DarthAznable

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@linark said:

@darthaznable: maybe you just hate debating. Think of it.

No Caption Provided

Listen bub. If you have nothing to bring to the conversation. Don't say anything at all. I'm have a nice chat with pope who is actually giving reasons why Alex would win rather than standing on the sidelines a spouting petty garbage. Oh and I said fans not "fanboy"...I believe your fanboy mentality is clouding your mind. Now sit back and let the grown ups debate.

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Pope052

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#219  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

I'm not acting like Cole isn't powerful enough to damage Alex, I know he isn't based on the game mechanics and the canon storyline. I don't believe the comics are canon, but feel free to prove me otherwise. John didn't use his full power, as he could have collapsed New Marais on Cole if he'd wished but as I said, it was plot driven for Cole somehow to win regardless of John's previously established feats. There was no indication of John squeezing Cole that I can recall, he merely held him. Again I never stated Cole wasn't durable, but just not on par in durability to enable him to soak a hit from Mercer. Getting shot with weaponry or energy based attacks aren't comparable to blunt force trauma, which Cole is lacking in so i'm not purposely making Cole less durable, i'm basing the fact off of his feats and based on feats, Alex can one shot him easily.

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DarthAznable

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@pope052 said:

@godofnick:

Mercer's casual kick has sent a military chopper to the ground on contact causing it to explode, Cole doesn't have enough feats to support that he'd be able to stand up to Mercer lacking the physicals. It'd only be a difficult fight for Alex if Cole could keep up or properly damage him but based on feats, he doesn't come close to that margin and he's not in the same ballpark as Mercer in anything really. Cole defeated the Beast but don't act as if it wasn't plot driven, John never intended to use his full power or else he'd have wasted Cole with a single blast but he didn't, because of the plot. All of Mercer's enemies went for the kill, and failed, less Heller. I'd argue that less the Beast, either Prototype could solo the Infamous verse. I know what i'm talking about when I say Mercer could end the fight in a single hit, I have played and completed both franchises more times than I could count.

But he'd have to hit Cole first and I'd say Cole has more fighting skill than Mercer. Now yes a hit from Alex would be devastating but with Cole's powers he isn't going to take things up close and personal. Cole was able to take down the Beast which withstood a nuke (only to have it regen later but still impressive) and that was at the beginning of inFamous 2.(The beast wasn't holding back his durability, just his attacks btw.) I believe Alex also withstood a nuke. Cole's power output is ridiculous and can clean blocks. I'd even say he could down massive damage via Ionic Drain which drains the lifeforce of anyone in the vicinity. Cole has taken out mutants before are pretty powerful, i'd even wager they're just as or more powerful than thee mutants you fight in Prototype. Cole has the powers to evade and keep his distance. And last I checked Mercer can't speedblitz. Will Mercer win? I'd say he can not easily.

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godofnick

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@pope052: Game mechanics really don't go far. I am pretty sure the comics are also canon, as they were made to bridge the gaps and fit in the canon timeline of inFAMOUS and last time I checked he was really powered up in the comics, although it's been some time since I've read em' so don't hold that against me. He could've collapsed New Marais, but he didn't. You know why? First of all, it took most of the game for him to get there. Second of all, he was sure Cole was going to side with him to work alongside all conduits and such, so he had no reason to destroy New Marais, only time he had found out Cole's indifference was in their final encounter, and Cole was far too powerful for the Beast to really destroy the city without taking too much time, which is exactly what he didn't have. John drained the powers from Cole at the beginning of the game, and that happened after he had 'held' Cole, so I assumed Cole was being squeezed, because it doesn't really make any other sense as to how Cole was drained. He's not as durable as Mercer, but he's definitely durable enough to soak hits from Alex, I don't see why you're doubting this.

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godofnick

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@darthaznable: Alex never took a nuke, he took the shockwave of it and only survived due to a crow stepping on him or eating the goo that was left of him or something of the sort.

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Pope052

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@darthaznable:

Cole isn't as skilled as Mercer, not even close to for that matter. If I recall correctly, Cole has no stated degree of proper skill where as Mercer has years worth of the highest standards of military training at his disposal but nevertheless, it isn't about skill it's about tanking the hit or keeping up with your opponent, Cole can't do either here. Cole can't keep Mercer off of him in order to utilize his more efficient attacks, and he could only harm the Beast due to possessing the same energy source behind his attacks that atomized John in the first place before he reformed. You say Cole can clean city blocks, yet I don't recall this ever happening canonically or in game mechanics at all nor any indication of coming close to that power, he is at best a small building buster based on feats where as Mercer can eventually take apart military bases with his bare hands.

Ionic Drain wouldn't work on a being that isn't alive, instead he's made up of Blacklight virus so if Cole absorbed it, he'll get infected due to the conduit gene repelling the chance of becoming one of an evolved. I can't recall an enemy other than the Beast on par with any significant boss in Prototype, anyway Cole's attacks lack force to keep a distance between him and Mercer. Lastly, I never said Mercer could speed blitz, but he's faster than Cole to the point where Cole can't keep up. I say Mercer win rather easily to be honest, the only attacks I see dealing significant amounts of damage to Cole are his ionics, that of which are recoverable from due to durability and cellular regeneration in Alex's corner.

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DarthAznable

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@godofnick: Ah okay. I never beat Prototype. I only have knowledge from debates on here. I recall someone saying he tanked a nuke but I guess that's what they were referring to.

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Pope052

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#225  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

I won't hold the comics against you, however i'll need a statement or anything of the sort to suggest they're canon to the games, which is the originality of the series so that's the true canon by default. John had no reason to destroy New Marais agreed, hence why Cole beating him isn't a considerable feat as you've just conceded to the fact that John held back. There's no evidence Cole came close to the Beast's tier of power without feats to suggest he could, so the simple matter is that John was limited in the fight for the sake of the plot.

Cole was drained because he fell into the lake, not because he was squeezed. If you don't want me to doubt that Cole is durable enough to soak a hit from Mercer, provide an instance where he received a blow sufficient to send tonnes worth of metal to the ground after a single kick. Alex was within the blast radius of the nuke so it wasn't only a shockwave, he felt the full force of the explosion and only consumed the crow for the sake of reducing time consumption rather than waiting for his body to regenerate automatically.

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godofnick

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@pope052: If you're still against the fact that Cole isn't powerful enough to hurt Alex with his electricity, what about ice powers? What's stopping Cole from just freezing Alex, and smashing him to bits? If you are implying the only reason Cole could hurt the Beast was due to the RFI, you're wrong. He was able to take apart half of his head just at the beginning of inFAMOUS 2, and phase him as well. Ionic Drain isn't even an option in this scenario seeing as we're using Good Cole and he never learned that. Cole can shoot tornados and huge lightning storms, you don't need more than common sense to figure out that'd wipe out a block, and the Ionic Vortex wrecks everything in it's radius in inFAMOUS 2. I'd like to see Mercer regenerate after being smashed to a bunch of tiny frozen bits.

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Noone301994

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Mercer still wins.

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Pope052

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#228  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

It's not a fact that Cole can harm Alex at all unless you prove it to be, but anyway Cole's ice doesn't hold any stated temperature nor inability to be smashed out of coupled with the fact it fails to freeze more durable opponents such as Crushers or Ravagers, who don't compare to Mercer in the slightest. I never said Cole could only hurt John because of the RFI, I said it was because Cole's power source originates from Ray Sphere energy which is the sole type of power that reduced John down to molecules in the first place. Ionic Drain wouldn't work regardless if it were an option or not, but would most likely kill Cole instead. No, see you can't rely on the excuse of common sense to back up Cole's "abilities" when his feats don't even put him on building level, at best house level. If Cole freezes Mercer, he'll break out rather handily so you're out of luck with this whole "smashed to bits" argument lacking any decent basis.

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godofnick

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#229  Edited By godofnick

@pope052: John wasn't exactly limited on purpose, he was giving it everything he had but Cole had the powers from the RFI at this point and he wrecked him faster than he could kill Cole. He certainly didn't hold back. Cole wasn't drained because he fell in the lake, if he fell in the lake he would've simply died, not get drained of his powers. He even stated that the Beast had drained him. I stated a few of the durability feats I'm aware of, but I'm sure if Cole can withstand blasts from the Beast which destroy buildings and cities casually, and can be squeezed by him, that he could survive a few hits from Mercer. Even at that, Cole wouldn't go up to Alex and engage with him in a fist fight or anything stupid like that. One thing Cole has is range, and he always uses that, so the only chance I can see Alex hitting Cole is if he came in with his Amp, he'd take the blow, realize how strong Mercer is and would back off, sending more of his attacks at him.

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Linark

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@darthaznable: prototype fans, fanboys, theres not much diference. Everyone knows exactly what you mean. Really, learn to debate. Youve got no clue, and the fact that you claim to be "adult" when you basically relay on insults and calling the ones with diferent opinions "prototype fans" is hillarious. Think of it.

I allready explained why your attitude doesnt lead anywhere and why calling someone fan because he is contrary to your opinion only makes you look like the fanboy. Do what you want.

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godofnick

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@pope052: Only reason Cole's ice don't work on Ravangers ect is because they're sub bosses, and it wouldn't make sense to be able to one shot them.

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DarthAznable

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@pope052 said:

@darthaznable:

Cole isn't as skilled as Mercer, not even close to for that matter. If I recall correctly, Cole has no stated degree of proper skill where as Mercer has years worth of the highest standards of military training at his disposal but nevertheless, it isn't about skill it's about tanking the hit or keeping up with your opponent, Cole can't do either here. Cole can't keep Mercer off of him in order to utilize his more efficient attacks, and he could only harm the Beast due to possessing the same energy source behind his attacks that atomized John in the first place before he reformed. You say Cole can clean city blocks, yet I don't recall this ever happening canonically or in game mechanics at all nor any indication of coming close to that power, he is at best a small building buster based on feats where as Mercer can eventually take apart military bases with his bare hands.

Ionic Drain wouldn't work on a being that isn't alive, instead he's made up of Blacklight virus so if Cole absorbed it, he'll get infected due to the conduit gene repelling the chance of becoming one of an evolved. I can't recall an enemy other than the Beast on par with any significant boss in Prototype, anyway Cole's attacks lack force to keep a distance between him and Mercer. Lastly, I never said Mercer could speed blitz, but he's faster than Cole to the point where Cole can't keep up. I say Mercer win rather easily to be honest, the only attacks I see dealing significant amounts of damage to Cole are his ionics, that of which are recoverable from due to durability and cellular regeneration in Alex's corner.

But he does no use them? Did you play inFamous 2? Ionic Vortex and Ionic Storm spam for the win I don't remember Mercer being that fast in the slightest, even gliding wasn't particularly fast. Evil Cole has powers from Nix which allows him a short teleport/dash called Firebird Strike if there are any rails or powerlines around, Cole will race along those. How fast he goes is unknown to me however.

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He also has lighting tether to move around sort of like Spider-Man 2:11.

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There is absolutely no evidence to say Ionic drain would or wouldn't work as the conduit gene is a totally different universe than Prototype

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Pope052

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#234  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

No that's not the case, because Cole doesn't have millisecond combat speed in order to wear down John to the point before he'd resort to a city buster once again. I mention millisecond speed because John required no more than one second to city bust back in Empire City, so Cole would have to be that fast in order for your argument to apply, but as we all know he's not. John himself didn't hold back, the plot did. It specifically indicates in the game that Cole was drained because he came into dangerous contact with water, he only dies in water based on game mechanics but canonical story feats are put above them.

Again, Cole wasn't squeezed and "tanking" energy blasts from the Beast is irrelevant to tanking blunt force trauma from Mercer, who hits harder than John by feats so you'll need blunt force trauma feats for your claim of Cole able to tank hits from Mercer to become valid, but unfortunately I know there's none that'd be sufficient. Cole may have range, but that advantage is quickly diminished by Mercer's mobility and speed closing the gap while Cole can't do anything about it. Once the distance is covered, Cole may as well surrender rather than do the illogical premise of thinking he can tank a hit and as a result, he loses his head.

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DarthAznable

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@linark said:

@darthaznable: prototype fans, fanboys, theres not much diference. Everyone knows exactly what you mean. Re relay on insults and calling the ones with diferent opinions "prototype fans" is hillarious. Think of it.ally, learn to debate. Youve got no clue, and the fact that you claim to be "adult" when you basically

I allready explained why your attitude doesnt lead anywhere and why calling someone fan because he is contrary to your opinion only makes you look like the fanboy. Do what you want.

That is an incredible difference. If you consider yourself a fanboy then anything you say is null and void. If you felt insulted by what I said then you really should just leave because as I said before, you are contributing nothing at all. Whether you reply to this or not I will will not dignify you with a response. Because at this point I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about lol. Good day sir.

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Pope052

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@darthaznable: @godofnick:

No, the average opponents the ice performs on doesn't apply to Ravagers and that's why they're considered sub bosses, because they're more durable.

But he does no use them? Did you play inFamous 2? Ionic Vortex and Ionic Storm spam for the win I don't remember Mercer being that fast in the slightest, even gliding wasn't particularly fast. Evil Cole has powers from Nix which allows him a short teleport/dash called Firebird Strike if there are any rails or powerlines around, Cole will race along those. How fast he goes is unknown to me however.

Actually, Mercer does use efficient skill in combat and that's an upgrade if I remember correctly. Cole can't spam more than three ionic powers, that of which Mercer has enough durability and regeneration feats suffice to say he'd be able to handle them moderately disregarding his defensive abilities too. Mercer is very fast, much faster than Cole's grinding ability and he's scaled the longest piece of road in Manhattan within three minutes, if anything that's crazy fast. Lightning Tether is a negligibly slow ability, and there's no evidence the Ionic Drain would work on Mercer as he's technically dead himself.

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DarthAznable

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@pope052: Not adding in his dash, Alex's running speed doesn't look to be fast at all. From what I gathered when I played Prototype, Alex has to continually gain speed. Combo off grinding, it may not be the fastest skill but is very useful regardless. After looking up your CAV with another user there isn't much more I can say you haven't already heard. I will digress. How is Mercer dead exactly? I still needs to feed doesn't he? I'd say he's alive.

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Pope052

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#238  Edited By Pope052

@darthaznable:

Well if you'd look at videos where Mercer runs, you'll notice he is much faster than Cole. I didn't mean fast as in blurred movement or anything of the sort, but faster than Cole nonetheless. Alex only has to gain five seconds of build up to reach his top speed, but his running speed is faster than anything Cole has to offer in terms of speed and mobility. Mercer's body is dead and only his mind exists within the web of intrigue, the Blacklight virus hosting on his body allowed him to utilize his memories once again however his body isn't functioning, it's just a plethora of biomass controlled by his previously existent thoughts so he's biologically immortal. He doesn't need to feed, unless he takes damage in a fight or decides to but it's not a requirement in general circumstances. His memories were kept by the virus after it consumed them along with everybody else's, otherwise there's nothing alive about Alex Mercer.

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UndinehunterTitan

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@pope052: Hey Pope, been meaning to get to this debate but I've been busy. Also have that CAV to worry about but hey I'll respond here for a bit.

His plethora of biomass body I have to argue with. After all he does have that web of intrigue and it can't be chalked up easily to game mechanics either. I think its what stores his memory, and that's pretty reasonable.

Alex takes those 5 seconds to build up max speed however he needs to be running on a straight. No zig zagging or anything just on a straight path. He can build up the speed however if he does not dodge he will get hit by Cole's attacks. And one attack would be enough to go through that biomass and with the electricity having to be grounded he'll end up on a massive faceplant at max speed. If he dodges, well no max speed but hey he dodged.

I'd like to point out that regarding your Alex's weakness isn't electricity

If you accept Cross' tasering him, I would say Alex never really showed any sort of insta adaption. He also didn't show any scenes where he adapted against electricity either. Call it PIS or whatever on the detail that Blackwatch never used lightning rods in the second game but in the end Cole can zap him. This is the most reasonable thing. After all Cross did stun Alex regardless of PIS bullcrap. There's nothing special about that electric prod, Cole has more output than that. You can't deny that

If you say that its only gameplay mechanics then Alex never dealt with lightning harnessed to harm people before. Making him not so resistant against it. Even with his shield and armor. The bouncing off enemies effect from Cole's attacks is really nothing more than gameplay mechanics. After all, in reality riot shields won't deflect lightning. Cole was able to harm ravagers on their head when they're pinning him but not when they're chasing him.

Finally, I think Alex's health bar is actually the limit of how much he can regenerate. I mean I still think he can tank explosions easily but that health bar I think could be just how he regenerates. Pretty reasonable since biomass shifts into him whenever he takes damage, or at least in prototype 1. Still, not really important to the debate

And Cole has enough voltage to damage and stun Alex. Low damage but high stun. The electricity going through Alex's legs will make him crumple or trip if he's moving too fast. Will have to respond to whatever your reply is tomorrow.

Edit - Also for the record, I also hate everyone who has no use in a debate and only says 'char stomps' and proceeds to leave never making an argument. Who do you think you are, word of god? At least make a sentence on why.

So technically in this debate, I approve of anyone that doesn't only say 'character stomps'

And really, Cole and Alex is a lot more closer than you think. Its not an outright stomp. Or at least I can't say that since others thinks otherwise. And really, the term fanboy is silly. Aren't you a fanboy of your own franchise if you start defending it? What if you like em both like me for example?

Eh whatever, back to debating

Edit Edit - Maybe there's just more annoying 'these guys stomps' on prototype fans than most franchises.

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UndinehunterTitan

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Odd. Your reply didn't get me a notification of any kind. How weird. Oh well

Interesting fact: The damage electricity does? Yeah, it's almost completely useless against Alex Mercer. Electricity kills primarily through overloading the nervous system, generally causing damage to the brain or heart. None of which Alex has. He's just a big ol' ball of biomass. No nerve endings, no nervous system, no brain, no heart. The biggest threat is damage on a cellular level, which electricity CAN definitely do, but Alex has a S***load of cells. When Alex consumes someone, aside from (admittedly sizable) amounts of blood, he eats everything. Bones, organs, flesh, all of it. Waste not, want not. So in order to do SERIOUS damage to Alex, Cole's going to have to overcome the equivalent of however many people Alex has consumed, since he has their full mass, and therefore all their cells.To completely destroy Alex, Cole's going to have to destroy him on a cellular level. Electricity can do that, but it's going to take a lot of power and a lot of time. How many shots does it take for Cole to kill/KO a single human being? Two? Three? One rocket? How many rockets can he fire from a full charge? Five? Six? In canon, Alex has consumed a total of 131 people in Prototype 1, courtesy of the Web of Intrigue. Let's take into account some damage over the course of the game, we'll bump it down to 100 people.

Fun little facts

Cole easily stomps military platoons in the comics with no less than one hit

Cole's lightning is video game lightning. The same lightning that can kill giant monsters made of ice. Now isn't that interesting?

Alex has a brain. Its called web of intrigue. Either way biomass is conductive. And really, the whole body of Alex will be zapped since lightning needs to be grounded. And he'll be immobile.

It doesn't matter if you deal low damage, if you can't get out of a combo you'll die to that infintie combo. And with Alex spasming on the ground unable to regenerate or move or defend to lightning, well, you get the point.

Also, lightning can reach temperatures the surface of the sun. Cole pulls multiple lightning bolts with his storm. Evaporation or ashed Alex. And don't kid yourself. Cole isn't pitiful. One rocket takes out a helicopter. And that was a weakened Cole.

To completely destroy Alex, Cole's going to have to destroy him on a cellular level. Electricity can do that, but it's going to take a lot of power and a lot of time. How many shots does it take for Cole to kill/KO a single human being? Two? Three? One rocket? How many rockets can he fire from a full charge? Five? Six? In canon, Alex has consumed a total of 131 people in Prototype 1, courtesy of the Web of Intrigue. Let's take into account some damage over the course of the game, we'll bump it down to 100 people.

If Alex was really as fat as 100 people then he won't be moving as fast. He's heavy that's for sure, but that doesn't do crap against anything when he can't move. And Cole has shown the capability to take out enemies in single shots.

Cole usually fights about five to ten dudes at a time. Normal, every day dudes with no or few superpowers. That's not true, in the first game, he fights a sizable amount of Conduits, which are stronger. Still, we look at how many shots it takes to take them out, and we take into account that unlike Alex, they HAVE a nervous system that's being damaged, they HAVE a heart and a brain that are being overloaded/fried... It's impressive, but not really enough to take Alex.

Let's see. The First Sons are a hundred years ahead of their time. Military is easily stomped. The Militia is pitiful and Cole could easily beat the crap out of them unless you suck at using Cole. The Reapers are enhanced by the conduit Sasha. The Ice conduits and corrupted are shown to be able to easily beat up the military via cutscene and becoming the new arms deal. Not to mention Cole also zaps things that are made out of ice, hard ice and defeats them.

That includes the stun thing, by the way: It won't work on Alex. Nothing to overload/stun. It won't even really hurt him. And I mean hurt in a 'it won't register' way, not that it won't do damage: It might. Just not enough. As for Cole's blasts knocking Alex away: Good luck. True, Cole's knocked around cars with his blasts. Let's go back to that 100 people from earlier. Say the average person weighs around 100 pounds, just for easy math. We get a combined weight of 10,000 pounds. Given that Alex cracks concrete from landing on it, I'd say that's more than fair. Average car? 3,000 to 3, 500 pounds. According to Google. Cole'll be lucky to even phase Alex with a blast.

Yes, just because a Rated T game doesn't show blood means Cole couldn't fry people's insides despite being able to casually power up powergrids. Oh wait, he did that, against a First son, who is armed against him with rubber suits.

Alex wouldn't be that heavy and fast. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to fly. Besides, he can get easily knocked around by explosions. Sure he can recover fast but he can get knocked away by explosions, and when he does use shields to block explosions, he still get pushed back. Not that heavy man. Not that heavy. It'll be funny to see Alex's weight preventing him from doing anything as he fried on the ground.

GIVE ME YOUR BEST ESSAY, BRO. I'M IN THE MOOD TO GET SCHOOLED.

I'm not a fan of double posting, but hey, sorry about missing your post and my notification bar not alerting me to anything

Edit - By the way guys, posted too many messages in a row. No response from this guy until tomorrow

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Pope052

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#241  Edited By Pope052

@undinehuntertitan:

Alex's body is Black Light biomass, the web of intrigue is the storage of memories and through that Alex is able to utilize his memories back to his body less the vulnerabilities and limitations of a regular human brain. Our brains are too delicate to even perform transplant surgery let alone regenerate after being blown to pieces or store more than a hundred canonical memories which Mercer can utilize at will. I'm just pointing out, there's not much of a comparison between the web of intrigue and a regular human brain as there's illogical differences involved in the Black Light's memories.

Except he doesn't require a five second build up to outpace Cole, he's already faster than Cole and the opponents Cole has faced. The remotely agile/mobile opponents give Cole at least some trouble regardless, and we both know they don't come close to Mercer in speed. If you'll include Kessler, don't. You can't compare teleportation to speed, there's a complete difference between one another. Plus, Cole didn't actually tag him while he maneuvered, only when he stood still to attack via game mechanics. If Kessler truly went for the kill, he wouldn't let himself be tagged but instead he was limited by the plot to demonstrate the truth to Cole. The same goes for the Beast, both of the main villains were limited against Cole, he didn't truly best either of them as they were held back. There's no substantial evidence Cole can tag or keep Mercer away from him considering how he's much faster and tougher than anyone Cole had went up against or beat, @jonsmith's explanation to the caused shock waves when Mercer lands is the logical reason of his consumption rate. He's far too dense for Cole to blow away, so Cole's abilities much require greater force to send Mercer back or flying before he reaches Cole by leaping or anything of the sort but unfortunately, they don't and Cole can't keep up based on the level of his opponents, no matter how you try to put it.

As I said, there's not enough evidence to support Mercer's supposed weakness to electricity other than it being plot driven for Cross to nullify his abilities. But otherwise, no further indication or statement had confirmed that instance as a legitimate vulnerability. My theory as to why it wasn't used again is because of Mercer's ability to evolve to the point where sparked rods would become useless, but it's only a theory however there's still no factual information on Mercer's weaknesses other than the confirmed blood-tox gas, that of which, Mercer gradually evolved to if I remember correctly and is stated in the wiki so it's common information. You can't say "Cross did stun Alex regardless of plot bull crap", because that's it, plot limitations restricted Mercer unless Cross suddenly became durable enough to withstand a blow from Mercer counting every one you can actually land, and Cross wasn't infected at this point either. Unless you believe humans can tank hits from Alex Mercer, this instance is purely plot holed based on the fact it wasn't confirmed, as opposed to the blood tox gas, that Mercer evolved to, so my theory of Mercer's evolution is somewhat applicable to a sparking rod that performed on a lesser scale.

I'll accept that Mercer hasn't dealt with proper electricity so he's as vulnerable to it depending on how well Cole's lightning has performed compared to what he was withstood and based on feats, Cole's abilities are truly lacking in comparison. You're too focused on the fallacious logic of "Cole's attacks have harmed regular human flesh, so it applies to Mercer" when that argument couldn't be more untrue. It doesn't matter what you're basing Mercer's biomass out to be, as it has took more damage than stainless steel ever could where as Cole's vortex can't even rip apart a building, regardless of it being a tornado, so don't you see the avast flaws you can point out from your logic here? Comparisons of the originality of their abilities or anatomy is overly an insufficient argument to loophole around the fact that Cole can't do anything significant against Mercer, as I have pointed out based on durability feats compared to capacity feats, of which Mercer's feats excel and Cole's feats are lacking. A riot shield won't deflect lightning, but an infinitely more durable biomass shield will. Cole may be able to damage ravagers by attacking their heads, doesn't mean he can harm someone who could rip apart those ravagers for breakfast, literally. The only actual feats that could suggest Cole can deal significant amounts of damage to Mercer is if you base Cole's canon off of the comic books which aren't the canon of the game. They've never been fact evidenced to be canon to the franchise, unless stated by the developers of the game and not DC regardless of whether they purchased the right to produce these comics, but they still aren't canon to the origin unless Sucker Punch themselves officially stated that the comics are locked into the same universe as the games. Otherwise, it's classified as an alternate universe by default. If you wish to use these feats, you're restricting yourself to solely comic book feats.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the "limited health bar regeneration" argument, however I will say that Mercer's health bar is his durability that recovers automatically so it's simultaneously the measured limit to what he can handle and his regenerative factor. Though like you said, not necessarily important to the debate. Agreed, Cole will deal little damage to Mercer but disagreed on how he'd stun him. Cole isn't going to be crippling Mercer's legs unless you based that assumption off of the "electricity can harm flesh" argument which is defeated by the fact that the origin defining of their abilities is irrelevant to the extent that they've performed on. For instance, Wolverine's skeletal structure is metal yet we've seen him handle being shocked so ability definitions don't hold up to what the character has done with them and Mercer excels in that aspect, his biomass easily exceeds stainless steel yet it's only flesh as you say. By that logic, a lot of character's feats would be labelled as stupidity or illogicality, but it's fiction so these type of arguments don't apply well at all.

Cole isn't in the same league as Alex, the games are noticeably similar but that doesn't put them on par with one another. Cole can damage him using his best abilities absolutely but hardly sufficient to what Mercer has handled or shrugged off. I don't think it's an outright stomp if Cole goes all out from the start, but since he has a limited supply of energy he can only do so much and will only prolong the battle whilst Mercer activates his defensive abilities coupled with cellular regeneration to recover from the damage and go for Cole with nothing to stop him. His ionics are limited to three, i'd give you a twenty five percent damage rate from each so the best he'd accomplish by hitting Mercer with these from the start is a total seventy five percent reduction in Mercer's durability and if Cole spams his actual capacity at Mercer, ninety percent is the best you're going to get. Once Cole is done and goes to recharge, Mercer is already back on his feet with armored form to reduce any incoming damage while his shield repels most of the frontal damage too so while constantly regenerating and running towards Cole who is lacking ionics, that's where durability needs to be taken into question but unfortunately, Cole is a glass cannon in comparison so like I said, going all out from the start is his best bet but he still wouldn't completely diminish Mercer to the point of forced regeneration and due to that, he pales in comparison assuming he'd accomplish ninety percent in the first place.

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XKStone

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wow. I guess that closes the argument for all the fans out there.

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Parryboy

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@pope052:

Hey, let me in!

==============

I just want to point a few things out:

The comic is canon to the game. It happened before Cole met Lucy Kuo and it spanned at least a month.

Second, would you think a full 30 second storm is just going to be Alex shrugging it off? http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/temperature.htm

This site tells you lightning is in fact, 5 times hotter than the sun's surface. Alex can't dodge this, even with his speed.

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XKStone

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True. But alex can regenerate from that. Alex has been hit by a nuclear explo and reduced to a blood pile.

while that the blood pike was slowly becoming alex. But the crow mearly fast fowarded the process

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XKStone

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True. But alex can regenerate from that. Alex has been hit by a nuclear explo and reduced to a blood pile.

while that the blood pike was slowly becoming alex. But the crow mearly fast fowarded the process

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Pope052

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@parryboy:

Good to get back to this, it's an interesting topic. Alright, can you provide a statement or something along the lines to prove the canon of the comics? Either way it doesn't necessarily change much on the outcome, so i'll accept it being tied into the games. And yes I would think that Alex won't be taking much harm at all from Cole's lightning storm, assuming it hits him. Even if it does, nuclear bombs can reach over eighty million kelvin (i'm not the expert on this however, i'd have to ask someone else for the explanation, if you want), yet Mercer's body wasn't even completely obliterated by one.

So what good is a lightning storm, that's over thousands of times inferior, and lasts for only ten seconds (Cole hasn't ever reached thirty, at least in canon feats and not based on non-canon gameplay mechanics) going to do? It honestly won't do more than put a dent in Mercer, not only that, but Cole hasn't ever shown the speed/precision caliber to tag Mercer, the lightning speed of the bolt itself is limited to Cole's reaction speed, so it's highly unlikely he'll be able to accurately tag an opponent who is faster than anything in the Infamous verse in the first place.

Mercer has the durability and speed to take it, Cole can't even take a hit from Mercer, and there's no reason why Mercer couldn't whiplash him as soon as the battle starts, one out of the many things he could do to handily dispose of Cole.

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godofnick

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@pope052: Looking back on this thread I feel stupid, I had yet played a Prototype game when I originally argued with you on this thread so my apologies. I'm not trying to say Cole would win I didn't come here to debate Cole vs Alex, I just wanted to point one thing out. Alex puts enough physical force out to knock down a chopper, correct. A helicopter rams into Cole's skull, while he was on a speeding car, and he's not even phased by it. So, I still stand by my argument that Mercer will not be killing Cole in one punch, but that's all I came here to say lol. Cole's durability is fair enough to tank blows from Mercer. I also recall Cole being squeezed by the Beast at the beginning of the second game, and although that did drain a lot of his powers he still survived. I'm assuming this is not Beast Cole, because if so you couldn't be arguing for Alex, right?

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Pope052

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#248  Edited By Pope052

@godofnick:

Haha, I read back on it too, I didn't realize at the time that I was debating against you ;P I still stand by Mercer knocking out Cole with a single blow though, he sent down a chopper with a casual kick and caused it to explode, Cole only took a slight knock to the head off of the bottom of the chopper that barely even made a sound, not necessarily ramming into his skull. I can't recall much more of Cole's blunt force durability feats than this, where as Mercer has more striking feats to choose from, so even if Cole could take maybe a hit or two, definitely no more than that to be honest.

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Stormsight

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I like Cole more, but I'm gonna have to go with Alex on this one. He's drastically overpowered.

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Keenko

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I think Cole COULD beat Mercer, but it'd be a lot harder for Cole to beat Mercer than vice-versa.