#1 Posted by KingOfAsh (3610 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin the World Eater against Smaug the Smug. Who wins?

#2 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

It could go either way.

#3 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin, more versatile.

#4 Posted by Ultra_Girl_ (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

@Xanni15 said:

Alduin, more versatile.

#5 Posted by ComocYahweh (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin has more magic powers.

#6 Posted by sambuscus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin is the World-Eater destined to end the world, cannot die by normal means and even when exploited by every weakness he has by practically a demi-god (Dovahkiin), his spirit is still free, and he will come back. Smaug practically just dies from an arrow in a weakspot.

#7 Posted by GhostofOnyx (656 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

@Xanni15 said:

Alduin, more versatile.

#8 Posted by Inphase (329 posts) - - Show Bio

I think everyone here thats posted so far are Skyrim fans. Smaug doesn't stomp, but he certainly beats Alduin. Alduin can be harmed by normal means, he claims he is a demigod, but he certainly doesn't show it. Dragons in Lord of the Rings have scales that are ALMOST as tough as adamantium.

#9 Posted by sambuscus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@Inphase: Dragons in TES have iron-clad scales and can travel from realm to realm(between worlds and even into after-lifes), Alduin CANNOT die by normal means the only way to defeat him is with the 'Dragon-rend' Thu'um and if a dragonborn faces him, in the game YOU DO BOTH and you still cannot absorb his soul which means that he will eventually come back to fulfill his destined role as world-eater. I mean come oN! He even Curses Molag Bal, a Daedra (a god).

#10 Edited by Inphase (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@sambuscus: Iron clad scales? Thats all you've got? Dragons in LotR scales are FAR stronger than iron, steel, and other metals. Also, as far as I know (really trying not to go by game mechanics) Dragonrend only forces a dragon to the ground, they make it seem like it will weaken him, and that you NEED it to defeat him, but you can just hack him to death with a steel sword, or shoot him with arrows. Like I said I'm REALLY not trying to go by game mechanics, but thats where TES's heart is, so its kind of hard.

#11 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Inphase said:

@sambuscus: Iron clad scales? Thats all you've got? Dragons in LotR scales are FAR stronger than iron, steel, and other metals. Also, as far as I know (really trying not to go by game mechanics) Dragonrend only forces a dragon to the ground, they make it seem like it will weaken him, and that you NEED it to defeat him, but you can just hack him to death with a steel sword, or shoot him with arrows. Like I said I'm REALLY not trying to go by game mechanics, but thats where TES's heart is, so its kind of hard.

Lore wise, what Dragonrend does is forces the dragon to understand mortality. The reason they land is because they're literally too afraid to concentrate on flying. It's like how a child doesn't really get the concept of death, then if you could suddenly make them understand that they will one day die, they'd be very very afraid and would probably freak out.

So, when you break it down, it's essentially a powerful fear based effect.

#12 Posted by Inphase (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus: But is it still necessary to "kill" him?

#13 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Inphase said:

@Laurcus: But is it still necessary to "kill" him?

I'm not sure. I don't know what it takes to kill Alduin though. Nothing has ever been able to do so. And in the game, your local expert on dragon lore says Alduin cannot be slain.

If I were to guess, I would say that it'd take extreme reality warping powers to kill him. Even in Skyrim you don't kill him. You beat him and put the apocalypse on hold.

#14 Posted by Inphase (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus: Yeah I know you don't kill him thats why I put quotations around kill in my last post. I think Smaug could easily do what the Dovahkiin did.

#15 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

alduin

#16 Posted by sambuscus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

That's what i said :D , and yeah dragon-born and dragon-rend are needed for him to be defeated they're his apparent weaknesses, yet even when you exploit his weaknesses he cant die, thats because it is stated in the elder scrolls that he is DESTINED to end the world, thus the title World-Eater.

#17 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin is the least impressive dragon ever.

#18 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

Alduin is the least impressive dragon ever.

Smaug was killed by a single black arrow being fired into a large weak point in his body (his underbelly). To be honest, as much as I loved the Hobbit, it was the least climactic part of the entire book. There was all this hype on Smaug, and then it felt like he flew out of his lair and got shot almost instantaneously.

At least Alduin devoured some souls and rained some fire, and raised some dragons.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#19 Posted by randomcharachter (326 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay: Dude I was waiting for the movie and you give the biggest spoiler

#20 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

@AtPhantom said:

Alduin is the least impressive dragon ever.

Smaug was killed by a single black arrow being fired into a large weak point in his body (his underbelly). To be honest, as much as I loved the Hobbit, it was the least climactic part of the entire book. There was all this hype on Smaug, and then it felt like he flew out of his lair and got shot almost instantaneously.

At least Alduin devoured some souls and rained some fire, and raised some dragons.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Sure, but that's not something Alduin can replicate or anything. Note that when people don't know about his tiny little weak spot... He lays waste to two kingdoms before breakfast. Alduin seems invulnerable until he's actually forced to land and fight, at which point he gets killed by regular old weapons despite all that soul eating business.

Not to mention that Smaug is likely several times bigger than Alduin.

#21 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Inphase said:

@Laurcus: Yeah I know you don't kill him thats why I put quotations around kill in my last post. I think Smaug could easily do what the Dovahkiin did.

Gameplay version, you're probably right. Lore version, I highly doubt it.

In lore, Alduin is basically the Galactus of Elder Scrolls. He eats worlds, and he's more akin to a god than a dragon. The more he eats, the more powerful he becomes. The inevitable apocalypse of Elder Scrolls is that Alduin will one day eat everything. I just don't see Smaug winning against that.

If you want more tangible feats than, "he eats worlds, the souls of the dead and gods" theoretically, he knows every shout. The shouts are just the dragon language. As the first dragon, he probably knows all shouts, and possibly created them all, with the exception of Dragonrend. This is supported in game, as he knows several shouts the player doesn't. Some of the shouts are OP enough that Smaug would have no counter for them. You know, things like attacking the soul or becoming ethereal.

#22 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

@AtPhantom said:

Alduin is the least impressive dragon ever.

Smaug was killed by a single black arrow being fired into a large weak point in his body (his underbelly). To be honest, as much as I loved the Hobbit, it was the least climactic part of the entire book. There was all this hype on Smaug, and then it felt like he flew out of his lair and got shot almost instantaneously.

At least Alduin devoured some souls and rained some fire, and raised some dragons.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Sure, but that's not something Alduin can replicate or anything. Note that when people don't know about his tiny little weak spot... He lays waste to two kingdoms before breakfast. Alduin seems invulnerable until he's actually forced to land and fight, at which point he gets killed by regular old weapons despite all that soul eating business.

Not to mention that Smaug is likely several times bigger than Alduin.

It wasn't exactly a little weakspot.... His underbelly is his weakness, that is, the entire underside of his body.

Why is Smaug likely bigger? He fits within the dwarven caves inside the mountain....

Alduin pretty much conquered an entire nation, and no dragon dared oppose him. He only gets killed once, and it's by the souls of some of the greatest fighters in history as well as the Dovahkiin.

I would think if a regular old arrow can piercing Smaug's underbelly, so can Alduin.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#23 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

It wasn't exactly a little weakspot.... His underbelly is his weakness, that is, the entire underside of his body.

Er... He fixed that. You know, that whole lying on diamonds for hundreds of years? I mean you could take that away from him, but they're as much a part of him now as anything else.

@Floopay said:

Why is Smaug likely bigger? He fits within the dwarven caves inside the mountain....

Yeah, but those caverns are huuuge. Smaug is described as the greatest living dragon in Middle Earth, and Middle Earth dragons can reach some truly ludicrous sizes. Alduin, by comparison, is the same size as any other dragon in Skyrim, and that's not terribly much.

@Floopay said:

Alduin pretty much conquered an entire nation, and no dragon dared oppose him. He only gets killed once, and it's by the souls of some of the greatest fighters in history as well as the Dovahkiin.

Alduin didn't conquer anything. Skyrim still functioned and engaged in their little civil war while he strutted about. Notably the dragons themselves began doubting Alduin's power over the course of the game, believing him to be weak and unfit to rule them, and not just because the Dragonborn is around. Odavhiing has his doubts in Alduin before he meets the Dragonborn, and the reason he comes to see Dragonborn is because he was amused by his insolence, indicating that he did not have a terribly high opinion of him beforehand.

#24 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

It wasn't exactly a little weakspot.... His underbelly is his weakness, that is, the entire underside of his body.

Er... He fixed that. You know, that whole lying on diamonds for hundreds of years? I mean you could take that away from him, but they're as much a part of him now as anything else.

@Floopay said:

Why is Smaug likely bigger? He fits within the dwarven caves inside the mountain....

Yeah, but those caverns are huuuge. Smaug is described as the greatest living dragon in Middle Earth, and Middle Earth dragons can reach some truly ludicrous sizes. Alduin, by comparison, is the same size as any other dragon in Skyrim, and that's not terribly much.

@Floopay said:

Alduin pretty much conquered an entire nation, and no dragon dared oppose him. He only gets killed once, and it's by the souls of some of the greatest fighters in history as well as the Dovahkiin.

Alduin didn't conquer anything. Skyrim still functioned and engaged in their little civil war while he strutted about. Notably the dragons themselves began doubting Alduin's power over the course of the game, believing him to be weak and unfit to rule them, and not just because the Dragonborn is around. Odavhiing has his doubts in Alduin before he meets the Dragonborn, and the reason he comes to see Dragonborn is because he was amused by his insolence, indicating that he did not have a terribly high opinion of him beforehand.

Him conquering was prior to the events of Skyrim, back when the dragons had enslaved humans.

And the gems aren't exactly embedded in him, nor were they really suggested to be. And it was described as "gemstones" not "diamonds", meaning gems of all shapes, sizes, colors, and varieties. The gemstones aren't solid in his body, one attack would likely blow most of them off, especially if he were to use a dragon shout of any sort.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#25 Posted by Immortal777 (7579 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug FTW

He's the richest fictional character and you know money is power.

#26 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

Him conquering was prior to the events of Skyrim, back when the dragons had enslaved humans.

He had an army of dragons at that point though. And we don't really have any straightforward evidence from that period to judge his power then.

@Floopay said:

And the gems aren't exactly embedded in him, nor were they really suggested to be. And it was described as "gemstones" not "diamonds", meaning gems of all shapes, sizes, colors, and varieties. The gemstones aren't solid in his body, one attack would likely blow most of them off, especially if he were to use a dragon shout of any sort.

...No, they're pretty much embedded in there. I mean the entire point of the book is that he has one little weak spot left on his entire body. I don't know how else you can interpret that.

Gemstones/diamonds was my bad.

#27 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

Him conquering was prior to the events of Skyrim, back when the dragons had enslaved humans.

He had an army of dragons at that point though. And we don't really have any straightforward evidence from that period to judge his power then.

@Floopay said:

And the gems aren't exactly embedded in him, nor were they really suggested to be. And it was described as "gemstones" not "diamonds", meaning gems of all shapes, sizes, colors, and varieties. The gemstones aren't solid in his body, one attack would likely blow most of them off, especially if he were to use a dragon shout of any sort.

...No, they're pretty much embedded in there. I mean the entire point of the book is that he has one little weak spot left on his entire body. I don't know how else you can interpret that.

Gemstones/diamonds was my bad.

I still think the impact force of one arrow is far less than the impact force of a meteor or any of his physical attacks.

Plus he can breathe frost and fire to incredible degrees. He's also immune to both frost and fire, which would make Smaug have to resort to physical means of attack only, and in a battlefield where meteors are raining from the sky.

I don't see why those gemstones would be so embedded that they can't fall off. It's not like dragons produce magic gemstone-adhering adhesive from their pores...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#28 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

I still think the impact force of one arrow is far less than the impact force of a meteor or any of his physical attacks.

Plus he can breathe frost and fire to incredible degrees. He's also immune to both frost and fire, which would make Smaug have to resort to physical means of attack only, and in a battlefield where meteors are raining from the sky.

I don't see why those gemstones would be so embedded that they can't fall off. It's not like dragons produce magic gemstone-adhering adhesive from their pores...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I don't think those meteors can kill normal humans, let alone a giant dragon. Not to mention that they'll be falling on his top, where he's especially invulnerable.

The book is pretty clear that laying on the treasure for over two hundred years has basically fused the gems to his body. To the point where it literally describes it as an armor or a mail shirt of gems. I mean remember he thrashes around the mountain enough to cause a minor cave in. That's like a dozen or two tons of dragon slamming into the walls. Later on he goes loop-de-looping over the laketown. If all that force didn't shake the gems out, I doubt anything Alduin does will.

#29 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

I still think the impact force of one arrow is far less than the impact force of a meteor or any of his physical attacks.

Plus he can breathe frost and fire to incredible degrees. He's also immune to both frost and fire, which would make Smaug have to resort to physical means of attack only, and in a battlefield where meteors are raining from the sky.

I don't see why those gemstones would be so embedded that they can't fall off. It's not like dragons produce magic gemstone-adhering adhesive from their pores...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I don't think those meteors can kill normal humans, let alone a giant dragon. Not to mention that they'll be falling on his top, where he's especially invulnerable.

The book is pretty clear that laying on the treasure for over two hundred years has basically fused the gems to his body. To the point where it literally describes it as an armor or a mail shirt of gems. I mean remember he thrashes around the mountain enough to cause a minor cave in. That's like a dozen or two tons of dragon slamming into the walls. Later on he goes loop-de-looping over the laketown. If all that force didn't shake the gems out, I doubt anything Alduin does will.

I think if those meteors crash through wooden structures and collapse stone walls, they can do some damage. Alduin demolishes the opening town.

Again, I think Alduin being killed by someone with an immense destiny and an attack specifically designed to harm dragons, is more impressive than an archer shooting a soft spot from over a dozen yards away. Smaug's idleness may have made him rusty or reckless, I dunno, but he didn't last very long. I liked the book, I was amused by the final chapters of the hobbit, I think the Beorn chapters and the chapter in the woods were some of my favorite chapters in all of literature. However, Alduin also tore apart armies, and blew an entire town up with only a few attacks.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#30 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay: Huh, fair enough, I forgot about the opening town. Still, IIRC no one actually attacks him in the opening town. He just stands on the top of the tower dispensing his wrath with impunity. Whenever someone actually manages to engage him, he backs down. Now unless you can quantify "immense destiny" I'm gonna stand by the fact that Alduin was beaten with regular mortal weapons.

#31 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay: Huh, fair enough, I forgot about the opening town. Still, IIRC no one actually attacks him in the opening town. He just stands on the top of the tower dispensing his wrath with impunity. Whenever someone actually manages to engage him, he backs down. Now unless you can quantify "immense destiny" I'm gonna stand by the fact that Alduin was beaten with regular mortal weapons.

He wasn't defeated by mortal weapons, he was defeated by Dragonrend, and then he was finally retreated back into Sovengarde, where he could truly be killed, which was a metaphysical plane of existence that required the assistence of several legendary warriors who could all wield dragon shouts.

And the person who slays him, by canon, is a mortal man with the blood and soul of a dragon in a world where it is perfectly accepted, and canon to wield magic and powerful magical shouts (one specifically designed to weaken dragons).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#32 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

He wasn't defeated by mortal weapons, he was defeated by Dragonrend, and then he was finally retreated back into Sovengarde, where he could truly be killed, which was a metaphysical plane of existence that required the assistence of several legendary warriors who could all wield dragon shouts.

And the person who slays him, by canon, is a mortal man with the blood and soul of a dragon in a world where it is perfectly accepted, and canon to wield magic and powerful magical shouts (one specifically designed to weaken dragons).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

But dragonrend canonically does nothing except force him to land. Even in lore its basically a mental attack which confronts the dragon with his own mortality, disorienting him and making him unable to concentrate on flying. That's it. That's not a terrible, soul rending spell capable of bringing down gods, that's a freaking Jedi mind trick.

#33 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

He wasn't defeated by mortal weapons, he was defeated by Dragonrend, and then he was finally retreated back into Sovengarde, where he could truly be killed, which was a metaphysical plane of existence that required the assistence of several legendary warriors who could all wield dragon shouts.

And the person who slays him, by canon, is a mortal man with the blood and soul of a dragon in a world where it is perfectly accepted, and canon to wield magic and powerful magical shouts (one specifically designed to weaken dragons).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

But dragonrend canonically does nothing except force him to land. Even in lore its basically a mental attack which confronts the dragon with his own mortality, disorienting him and making him unable to concentrate on flying. That's it. That's not a terrible, soul rending spell capable of bringing down gods, that's a freaking Jedi mind trick.

Forcing an immortal being to feel something entirely incomprehensible by it's own mind seems a bit more potent than a simple Jedi mind trick, I think you are drastically underestimating that ability.

Not to mention at this point in the game the Dovahkiin has to absorb something like 6 or 7 dragon souls? I mean, Alduin gets slain by a dragon slayer who absorbs dragon souls. I think you are drastically understating Alduin.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#34 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

Forcing an immortal being to feel something entirely incomprehensible by it's own mind seems a bit more potent than a simple Jedi mind trick, I think you are drastically underestimating that ability.

Not to mention at this point in the game the Dovahkiin has to absorb something like 6 or 7 dragon souls? I mean, Alduin gets slain by a dragon slayer who absorbs dragon souls. I think you are drastically understating Alduin.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

It's still just a mental attack. It should make no difference on the effectiveness of mortal weapons on his skin.

What do Dragon Souls give you besides more shouting? Hell does anything in the gameplay indicate that your status as dragonborn gives you any tangible benefits beyond the ability speak the dragon's language on the fly? I don't think so. I mean, yeah, I may be understating Alduin, but you have to admit he never actually does anything impressive in the whole damn game. Compare him to Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion. That guy was obviously powerful. Alduin seems less like a destroyer of worlds and more like a mildly threatening dragon with a damn good PR team.

#35 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Floopay said:

Forcing an immortal being to feel something entirely incomprehensible by it's own mind seems a bit more potent than a simple Jedi mind trick, I think you are drastically underestimating that ability.

Not to mention at this point in the game the Dovahkiin has to absorb something like 6 or 7 dragon souls? I mean, Alduin gets slain by a dragon slayer who absorbs dragon souls. I think you are drastically understating Alduin.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

It's still just a mental attack. It should make no difference on the effectiveness of mortal weapons on his skin.

What do Dragon Souls give you besides more shouting? Hell does anything in the gameplay indicate that your status as dragonborn gives you any tangible benefits beyond the ability speak the dragon's language on the fly? I don't think so. I mean, yeah, I may be understating Alduin, but you have to admit he never actually does anything impressive in the whole damn game. Compare him to Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion. That guy was obviously powerful. Alduin seems less like a destroyer of worlds and more like a mildly threatening dragon with a damn good PR team.

Well Mehrunes Dagon was a Daedra God... Alduin is the first dragon created by Akantosh (may have spelled that name wrong). You can't seriously be trying to convince me that what Smaug did was more impressive? Even in his background the most we know about him is he showed up to a dwarven kingdom and took it over while they weren't expecting him, and then nobody even attempted to confront him after that point.

At least Alduin raised an army after he came back, and wrecked a couple towns. Also he was stated (and by feats it was pretty obvious) to be the most powerful dragon, that the others refused to confront.

And does being a Dragonborn grant anything other than the abilities to call storms, manipulate time, empower himself, create powerful gusts of wind, breathe fire, breathe ice capable of freezing people, the ability to weaken someone's life force, the ability to sense life forces, dragon summoning, powerful self buffs, and a host of other abilities, as well as the one to gain the knowledge of the dragons you slay? No, I guess that's the only thing it does....

I mean, I suppose Alduin would be more impressive if you had been able to shoot him out of the sky with a normal black wooden arrow and if you'd been able to talk to animals... :P

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#36 Posted by Inphase (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus: You're right there, I guess we will never know who would win.

#37 Posted by sambuscus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: To Truly understand the Dragon-rend Thu'um you have to go back to the basics, A Thu'um is the mixture of the word in dovah language and the understanding of said word, whats truly magnificent about the dragon language is that the word IS the thing, once you LEARN and FULLY UNDERSTAND the word you are able to execute it, the understanding of the word comes from two sources within the game , either the greybeards share THEIR understanding of the word with you or if you absorb a dragon's soul (What you are absorbing isn't just a soul, you absorb the dragon's vital essence and their meaning of any word they already know). For example 'Fus' is Force, once you learn the word from Bleak Fall Barrows and understand it's true meaning from Mirmulnir (First Dragon you kill) you get to release pure FORCE just by saying the word, now back to the subject, so basically what im saying is that when you shout 'fire' fire materializes, when you shout force, pure force materializes, Dragonrend practically forces the idea of mortality onto a dragon's soul and forcing them to experience it so what it actually does is render the ageless immortal Alduin mortal...temporarily instead of just 'forcing him to land', if you notice that during Alduin's Bane if you try to attack him without using the dragonrend it doesnt harm him, so there! If you dont use dragonrend he cant die from normal weapons!

#38 Posted by sambuscus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: As for the Mehrunes Dagon thing, "According to one creation myth, Mehrunes Dagon was once the Leaper Demon King, a kindly leaper demon and a low spirit who was one of the last spirits to be eaten by Alduin at the end of every kalpa. Dagon plotted with the Greedy Man over several kalpas in an attempt to kill Alduin. Together, they distracted Alduin at the kalpa-turning in order to hide parts of the world (Mundus) away from him. At the start of the next kalpa, they would add these stolen pieces of the world, hoping to eventually make the world too big for Alduin to eat. Alduin eventually learned of their plan, and cursed Dagon so that he could no longer jump. Alduin banished him to the Void. Dagon was tasked with destroying all in the world which was stolen from previous kalpas, but he could not enter Mundus except during an auspicious time after a lot of hard work and ritual. Only after all fragments stolen from previous kalpas were destroyed could Dagon regain his "jumping kind of happiness" again, but the spirit knew this to be impossible, as he and the Greedy Man had stolen so much from the previous kalpas and had crammed them in at random. Dagon then begged Alduin one hundred thousand and eight times to retract the curse, but while he was begging Alduin devoured him and began a new kalpa." Got this off Wiki.

#39 Edited by kongming (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Were no ordinary factors that caused the death of Smaug, but three special factors on which one stands out:

1 - Black Arrow: It was not a "normal black wooden arrow", it was an arrow made ​​by the ancient dwarves (and thats mean that the artifact have sub-criativity [the name that the scholars gave to the "magic" in Arda] in it) of Erebor and passed for men and from generation to generation until the archer who killed Smaug. Every time is shot, the archers who used always recovered it and the arrow has the property to never miss the target.

2 - Bard, the Bowman: one of the most skilled archers among Man. He had the ability to talk to animals, something that was sorely needed to get kill Smaug.

3 - The thrush: This was the most extraordinary of all. And why? Because was the thrush that saw the SMALL gap between scales and jewelry in the belly of the dragon, and it was he who warned Bard on that little hole. Without the thrush warning to the right person, there would be neither Bard nor Black Arrow to save Esgaroth.

This is enough to correct some errors that I saw here. But I must give my arm to twist that Smaug, being the last of the fire-drakes, despite hes larger size compared to Alduin, might have a chance of being defeated by him. This battle would be fairer if Alduin was battling Glaurung the Golden or Ancalagon the Black.

#40 Posted by Hyperlight (5822 posts) - - Show Bio

alduin

#41 Posted by Xeno_Seeker (414 posts) - - Show Bio

alduin has the use of thuums. (summon metors to crash unto the battleground)

#42 Posted by Korniidlaas (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, so what we have so far is that Smaug is the physically stronger dragon but Alduin is more powerful when it comes to magic and the thu'um. Smaug is larger, faster, stronger, has tougher armor with a tiny week spot on his underbelly. Alduin, on the other hand, cannot be killed by normal means. He has his mastery of the thu'um on his side, but that's really it. Not to say that true mastery of the thu'um is a small thing. If he is able to literally eat the world, on which Smaug resides, shouldn't that mean that it's not even fair? I still don't understand how the whole "world eater" thing works and I am an avid Skyrim player myself, but even so...

One thing I'd like to point out is that both of these characters are hot heads. It could be just a fight or to the death, we weren't specific. They have both been described as arrogant in their own right. They'd start out by insulting each other, then a fight would break out. If Alduin was slow to react, then Smaug could easily move in close enough so that shouting would be near impossible. At that point I would give it to Smaug. If Alduin could keep the fight at "shouting" distance, he could potentially drain Smaug's essence from the inside rendering his size and strength useless. Then I'd give it to Alduin. It all depends on where they fight and who attacks first. My vote is for Alduin but I'm just laying what we know out there. If we're going to the death, then I have to say Alduin because he can retreat to Sovngarde as many times as he likes to regenerate and come back just as strong as before. Smaug and only return to his kingdom under the mountain to nurse his wounds back to health and we all know that he cannot regrow his scales. If he could he would have no "week spot".

#43 Posted by Eisenfauste (8282 posts) - - Show Bio

I really need to play Skyrim :/

Alduin has better magic powers, but I think Smaug showed more impressive physical feats IIRC.

#44 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (842 posts) - - Show Bio

Alduin World Eater Beater should stomp. But actual one, would pull out a win.