Alduin vs Kalameet

Rules and Conditions

• Both are bloodlusted
• Alduin can only use shouts he's been shown to use
• Lore allowed for Kalameet but not for Alduin (Due to supposed "world eating" in the lore for Alduin that has never happened)
• Victory by death
• Rules not stated = Comic Vine Standard

Arena

• Alduin starts at the top of the mountain, Kalameet starts at the bottom (bottom left)

Music: Alduin

Music: Kalameet

Alduin calls a meteor shower and Kalameet dies.

Not so sure. Kalameet seems extremely limber and mobile for a dragon. Plus he has his telekinetic abilities. But appreciate the answer nonetheless.

I'm backing Alduin. He can kill some of the greatest warriors in his universe, even some who kill other dragons regularly. None with telekinetic abilities, but I still think Alduin takes it. He is Al-Du-In. Firstborn of Akotosh.

I'll have to side with Kalameet on this one.

Through lore we know that he is the one dragon that no one, not even Gwyn's dragon slayers dared to provoke, which says quite a lot about him since these dragon slayers could kill everlasting immortal dragons (basically what Alduin is).

Feats for Kalameet?

Also, Alduin's world eating is probably legit it just isn't something he does casually and is likely a long process that takes a significant amount of time.

Kalameet is said to be the strongest of all the dragons (Statement by Gough, who was a Dragon Hunter) and Ancient Immortal Dragons were pretty dang powerful on their own. Kalameet is also extremely limber and maneuverable for a dragon compared to Alduin. I believe Kalameet is faster and more agile here, but Alduin has strength and defense. Alduin's shouts are an asset, but so are Kalameet's telekinetic abilities and his black flames which are above anything Yol Tor Shul has shown. It's pretty even IMO.

@saint_of_origin:

idk, after looking up videos of him, he didn't seem any more agile than Alduin. If anything, Alduin seemed a lot more agile, soloing armies and dodging a lot of their attacks and his dogfight with Paarthurnax. Also, what makes you say his flames are hotter than Alduin's Thu'um? It being black isn't indicative of it's temperature.

Mostly it's AoE. And Alduin never did backflips or dodges like Kalameet did (While wounded mind you). Skyrim's dragons are only maneuverable in the air, and even then, not very much. Kalameet's wings are not part of his front two "legs". That means he has two extra limbs here.

Yeah, he is more maneuverable in the air but that's what I meant, if they were to fight, Alduin would stay mostly in the air which is why the Dragonborn needed Dragonrend just to ground him. He was also shown to be quite maneuverable while flying. I haven't seen Kalameet be that maneuverable when flying.

Except being maneuverable on the ground > Being maneuverable in the air. I can be maneuverable in the air if I could fly. But I'm not maneuverable on the ground by any means. Why would Kalameet's maneuverability decrease just because he flies?

If being maneuverable on the ground is superior to being maneuverable in the air, the Nords who originally defeated Alduin wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to create an entirely new shout just to ground him. Like Obi-Wan basically said, high ground is superior. Also, no, being maneuverable on the ground doesn't inherently mean you're maneuverable in the sky. Iron Man and Superman from their respective films needed major practice just to fly. Also, their physiology is blatantly different which you even pointed out, so one can easily be more suited to flying than the other, just like species of animals in real life.

On top of all this, flight combat is Alduin's bread and butter and his preference in combat. He has immense experience with it. Don't you think if Kalameet was much more of a threat when flying he'd stay in the sky for most of the fight when he fought the Chosen Undead?

@m_man:

Ok come on

Alduin is such an operated character who talks loud but doesn't say much

You can't just say he wins because he's a world eater, is he a world eater? I played skyrim only thing he seemed to eat was sword

Oh im powerful because lore

Here's a notion what if the lore is a lie, you ever seen viking lore? Loads of insane stuff none of it true, maybe alduins a joke maybe it's parodying real life and our over active imaginations

"Where's the lore? they said there would be lore, the lore is a lie"

@serpinethegreen:

Alduin is such an operated character who talks loud but doesn't say much

That has nothing to do with anything.

You can't just say he wins because he's a world eater, is he a world eater?

I never said that once.

I played skyrim only thing he seemed to eat was sword

Kinda like Kalameet.

Oh im powerful because lore

I never said that either, nor is that my argument.

Here's a notion what if the lore is a lie, you ever seen viking lore? Loads of insane stuff none of it true, maybe alduins a joke maybe it's parodying real life and our over active imaginations

"Where's the lore? they said there would be lore, the lore is a lie"

None of this matters because, again, my argument doesn't even appeal to lore.

@m_man:

Sorry I was making all the usual fanboy arguments nulled you just got the short end of the stick

Also I'm guessing you're young or younger most of wgtat I said we're jokes

"Speaks loud but doesn't say much" is an analogy that he acts tough but he isn't

"Oh im powerful because lore" is me taking the mic out of fanboys who use the lore and without any real argument

And the last bit "where's the lore they said there would be lore ,the lore is a lie" is a portal reference.

@serpinethegreen:

Also I'm guessing you're young or younger most of wgtat I said we're jokes

I know, but they make no sense to be directed at me.

"Speaks loud but doesn't say much" is an analogy that he acts tough but he isn't

I know what you meant, but like I said it doesn't have anything to do with an actual argument.

"Oh im powerful because lore" is me taking the mic out of fanboys who use the lore and without any real argument

And the last bit "where's the lore they said there would be lore ,the lore is a lie" is a portal reference.

I'm aware. But again, it doesn't make any sense to arbitrarily direct these at me.

It's also Kalameet's preferred combat style. He had to be grounded as well. By an arrow from Gough. He's nigh impossible to beat otherwise. Also the bolded portion only proves my point. They grounded him because he was maneuverable in the air only. Maneuverability increases with less obstacles, this is a fact. The ground = obstacle. Also their physiology difference is an advantage to Kalameet. His wings are completely independent of his arms. Their only focus is flight. Alduin's wings are his front "arms" as well. They must fulfill two roles, whereas Kalameet's wings are completely flight focused, and his arms are just that, arms. I've never seen any Skyrim dragon do anything remotely close to a backflip, in the air or otherwise. Whereas Kalameet performs them while crippled quite easily.

@saint_of_origin:

Exactly

Kalameet should have this

He's bigger far more durable, and his attacks are devastating in comparison to Alduin who's little more than the average skyrim dragon

In fact the whole premise of dragonrend was because Alduin was the strongest dragon, and the dragonborns couldn't reach him

Kalameet being a dragon doesn't have this problem.

The only argument that can be made is from the biased fanboys who spew skyrim lore

That's actually very flawed reasoning. You do realize having arms actually hinders flight, right? This actually proves my point that his physiology is worse for flying. Why do you think the evolution of most flying animals today such as birds involved removing their arms? It's because it was a major detriment to their flight. And what are you talking about when you say any of the dragons in Skyrim haven't shown maneuverability?? They've actually had dog fights and have shown plenty of aerial maneuvers. Also, he has no answers for Alduins shouts and meteor shower. Show me actual feats that he can dodge the meteors while fighting a dragon better at flying.

@serpinethegreen:

He's bigger

That doesn't matter.

far more durable

Show me feats.

Kalameet was downed by a large arrow, Alduin takes down armies on a regular basis and has never been taken down by conventional weapons.

and his attacks are devastating in comparison to Alduin who's little more than the average skyrim dragon

Alduin has fire breath, frost breath, and can call down meteor showers.......this is completely false.

In fact the whole premise of dragonrend was because Alduin was the strongest dragon, and the dragonborns couldn't reach him Kalameet being a dragon doesn't have this problem.

He hasn't shown better aerial combat, has worse physiology for flying, and has no answer for Alduin's meteor shower.

The only argument that can be made is from the biased fanboys who spew skyrim lore

Blanket statement with and argument for lore has even been made here.

First prove Alduin is a better flyer. I put several hundred hours into Skyrim and I've never seen any complex aerial maneuver by any Skyrim dragon. Ever. They have a hard time cornering and controlling their momentum. And how is having arms detrimental for flying? Creatures don't only evolve because of detriment. Creatures sometimes evolve because of non-necessity. "Humans" used to have tails. But, we don't need them. So they went poof. Maybe for straight bursts of speed due to aerodynamics and catching the wind. But I see no reason that having arms makes flying worse. Especially considering Skyrim dragons don't have great flying speed to begin with. You still ignore my point about Kalameet being just as comfortable in the air. He can dodge the meteors because he's a slender maneuverable dragon. While injured he does backflips like it's nothing. Alduin is bulkier, that's a fact. Show me ONE feat of Alduin showing any kind of aerial maneuverability beyond basic flying. One. The fact is the dragons in Skyrim are incredibly clumsy flyers. Just look at how they need to stop and start moving again in the air. If Kalameet can do backflips on the ground, why wouldn't be be able to in the air?

@saint_of_origin:

First prove Alduin is a better flyer

Having a better body designed for flying and having actual feats fighting other dragons while flying is enough.

I put several hundred hours into Skyrim and I've never seen any complex aerial maneuver by any Skyrim dragon. Ever.

They've shown more than Kalameet which is the only thing that matters.

hey have a hard time cornering and controlling their momentum.

Except that they don't. Show me them having any sort of difficulty when flying.

And how is having arms detrimental for flying?

Because it's detrimental to flight. It creates drag and instability. That's common sense.

Creatures don't only evolve because of detriment. Creatures sometimes evolve because of non-necessity. "Humans" used to have tails. But, we don't need them. So they went poof. Maybe for straight bursts of speed due to aerodynamics and catching the wind. But I see no reason that having arms makes flying worse.

You couldn't be more wrong. In evolution, characteristics in animals don't get removed if they're inconsequential to the animal's survival, they stay. That's called a vestigial structure.

Especially considering Skyrim dragons don't have great flying speed to begin with.

Can you show Kalameet flying faster? Alduin flew to Skuldafn in moments. Show me Kalameet flying faster.

You still ignore my point about Kalameet being just as comfortable in the air. He can dodge the meteors because he's a slender maneuverable dragon. While injured he does backflips like it's nothing.

Show me him having shown the maneuverability to do so. He couldn't even dodge a giant arrow.

Alduin is bulkier, that's a fact.

No it's a statement based on nothing. His body is more suited to flying, I've proven that.

Show me ONE feat of Alduin showing any kind of aerial maneuverability beyond basic flying. One.

He's actually fought other dragons while flying. He's also never been hit with his own meteors.

The fact is the dragons in Skyrim are incredibly clumsy flyers. Just look at how they need to stop and start moving again in the air.

What are you talking about?

If Kalameet can do backflips on the ground, why wouldn't be be able to in the air?

A backflip doesn't equate to being able to dodge a barrage of meteors.

@m_man:

Ok first...He took a big f#@K off arrow specifically designed to hurt and kill dragons and crashed from the sky

Despite being unable to fly he was still capable of fighting, and fighting well

....unlike a grounded Alduin....

Kalameets fire is so powerful that he can kill the chosen undead with a single burst

And blanket the whole area in flame

While in the sky Kalameet cannot be killed by the chosen undead (not unless you have a couple of hours...and then still)

Kalameet being bigger is important, as it means his jaws are, and his Teath are.

Kalameet is faster than Alduin, in the game I've practically killed Alduin while he was airborne, but tagging Kalameet is far more difficult

Kalameet having four arms gives him a sizable advantage as well he has two more weapons than alduin

And when it comes to durability Kalameet needs a lot of punishment yo go down, alduin is pathetic as are all of his attacks

These guys were afraid of him and never dared to provoke him:

Alduin literally murders him

Kalameet slaps, he terrified a whole city of gods

Salty OP

OT: Because of these rules, Kalameet

Alduin made a god of destruction his b*tch

@ancient_0f_days: and Kalameet terrified a WHOLE CITY of them