Albert Wesker vs. Daredevil

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Super_SoldierXII

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@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@xxironspiderxx said:

Everyone is just sayin albert wins and listing his feats nobody will list matts. Im not saying matt wins im just saying stop underestimating him

Skill in the comic book realm should never be underestimated.

Classic case of skill versus stats. I do believe we on the Vine drool far too much over 'superior' stats. Fact is, comic book top tier fighters are superhuman in their own right (Matt actually redirects bullets with precision - them there are superhuman reflexes at work). And the fact is, they are consistently written taking down powerhouses they would have no business taking down in 'real life'. I can run off a list if anyone doubts ...

Matt has held up against far more impressive adversaries than Wesker has IMHO.

This is not a stomp.

Funny thing, I always thought that people on comicvine are overestimating skills, not stats. Logically someone who is simultaneously faster, stronger and more durable than you, will always defeat you in random encounter. Let's use the analogy: North American P-51 Mustang piloted by excellent pilot versus F-16 Fighting Falcon piloted by mediocre pilot, who would win? Or M4 Sherman controlled by greatly skilled crew versus M1 Abrams controlled by mediocre crew, again who should win? This is classical case of swordsman vs. gunslinger... Every time you will doubt that stats are more important than skills watch Riders of the lost ark: arabian swordsman shows off his skills with a sword, Indiana Jones just point a gun at him and shoot him on a spot. :) Yes, skilled peak humans defeted superhumans on many occasions - this thing have a name, it is called: PIS/CIS. It's either done for the sake of story, or it is done to uplift certain characters. For example let's talk about this pressure points thing. Not only this is a cheap way to win - in this same way you can say that Daredevil will win this fight because he will kick his opponent in the nuts ;) - but also I don't think that pressure points should work. If you have super durability, then your entire body is super durable including your nerves and all other weak spots. So I don't know why pressure points should be effective? And because of that Wesker stomps.

Your confusing real life logic with comics. It's that simple.

Martial skill in comic land does not operate under the same laws ... every-single-top-tier character has multiple feats attributed to him or her that in the real world would classify as superhuman and / or paranormal.

Top tier skill is an extremely potent superpower (and yes, I would classify it as such) to possess in comics.

Real world physics and logic have a very limited place whence debating the import and 'weight' of skill versus stats in comic books.

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Picard

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#102  Edited By Picard

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@xxironspiderxx said:

Everyone is just sayin albert wins and listing his feats nobody will list matts. Im not saying matt wins im just saying stop underestimating him

Skill in the comic book realm should never be underestimated.

Classic case of skill versus stats. I do believe we on the Vine drool far too much over 'superior' stats. Fact is, comic book top tier fighters are superhuman in their own right (Matt actually redirects bullets with precision - them there are superhuman reflexes at work). And the fact is, they are consistently written taking down powerhouses they would have no business taking down in 'real life'. I can run off a list if anyone doubts ...

Matt has held up against far more impressive adversaries than Wesker has IMHO.

This is not a stomp.

Funny thing, I always thought that people on comicvine are overestimating skills, not stats. Logically someone who is simultaneously faster, stronger and more durable than you, will always defeat you in random encounter. Let's use the analogy: North American P-51 Mustang piloted by excellent pilot versus F-16 Fighting Falcon piloted by mediocre pilot, who would win? Or M4 Sherman controlled by greatly skilled crew versus M1 Abrams controlled by mediocre crew, again who should win? This is classical case of swordsman vs. gunslinger... Every time you will doubt that stats are more important than skills watch Riders of the lost ark: arabian swordsman shows off his skills with a sword, Indiana Jones just point a gun at him and shoot him on a spot. :) Yes, skilled peak humans defeted superhumans on many occasions - this thing have a name, it is called: PIS/CIS. It's either done for the sake of story, or it is done to uplift certain characters. For example let's talk about this pressure points thing. Not only this is a cheap way to win - in this same way you can say that Daredevil will win this fight because he will kick his opponent in the nuts ;) - but also I don't think that pressure points should work. If you have super durability, then your entire body is super durable including your nerves and all other weak spots. So I don't know why pressure points should be effective? And because of that Wesker stomps.

Your confusing real life logic with comics. It's that simple.

Martial skill in comic land does not operate under the same laws ... every-single-top-tier character has multiple feats attributed to him or her that in the real world would classify as superhuman and / or paranormal.

Top tier skill is an extremely potent superpower (and yes, I would classify it as such) to possess in comics.

Real world physics and logic have a very limited place whence debating the import and 'weight' of skill versus stats in comic books.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Everytime I point this out, I always get this same response: comic book logic is different that real life logic, it's like saying it's just comic book, what did you expect? It is like both authors and reader's didn't have respect for the medium. But it's not looney toons! This "diffrent logic" thing it's a cop out, a lousy excuse for bad writing. Basically everyone who claim that Daredevil and similar characters could defeat opponents that are way out of their league, is no different from that guy who claimed that T-1000 could kill Superman by poking his brain with stabbing weapon...

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Super_SoldierXII

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@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@xxironspiderxx said:

Everyone is just sayin albert wins and listing his feats nobody will list matts. Im not saying matt wins im just saying stop underestimating him

Skill in the comic book realm should never be underestimated.

Classic case of skill versus stats. I do believe we on the Vine drool far too much over 'superior' stats. Fact is, comic book top tier fighters are superhuman in their own right (Matt actually redirects bullets with precision - them there are superhuman reflexes at work). And the fact is, they are consistently written taking down powerhouses they would have no business taking down in 'real life'. I can run off a list if anyone doubts ...

Matt has held up against far more impressive adversaries than Wesker has IMHO.

This is not a stomp.

Funny thing, I always thought that people on comicvine are overestimating skills, not stats. Logically someone who is simultaneously faster, stronger and more durable than you, will always defeat you in random encounter. Let's use the analogy: North American P-51 Mustang piloted by excellent pilot versus F-16 Fighting Falcon piloted by mediocre pilot, who would win? Or M4 Sherman controlled by greatly skilled crew versus M1 Abrams controlled by mediocre crew, again who should win? This is classical case of swordsman vs. gunslinger... Every time you will doubt that stats are more important than skills watch Riders of the lost ark: arabian swordsman shows off his skills with a sword, Indiana Jones just point a gun at him and shoot him on a spot. :) Yes, skilled peak humans defeted superhumans on many occasions - this thing have a name, it is called: PIS/CIS. It's either done for the sake of story, or it is done to uplift certain characters. For example let's talk about this pressure points thing. Not only this is a cheap way to win - in this same way you can say that Daredevil will win this fight because he will kick his opponent in the nuts ;) - but also I don't think that pressure points should work. If you have super durability, then your entire body is super durable including your nerves and all other weak spots. So I don't know why pressure points should be effective? And because of that Wesker stomps.

Your confusing real life logic with comics. It's that simple.

Martial skill in comic land does not operate under the same laws ... every-single-top-tier character has multiple feats attributed to him or her that in the real world would classify as superhuman and / or paranormal.

Top tier skill is an extremely potent superpower (and yes, I would classify it as such) to possess in comics.

Real world physics and logic have a very limited place whence debating the import and 'weight' of skill versus stats in comic books.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Everytime I point this out, I always get this same response: comic book logic is different that real life logic, it's like saying it's just comic book, what did you expect? It is like both authors and reader's didn't have respect for the medium. But it's not looney toons! This "diffrent logic" thing it's a cop out, a lousy excuse for bad writing. Basically everyone who claim that Daredevil and similar characters could defeat opponents that are way out of their league, is no different from that guy who claimed that T-1000 could kill Superman by poking his brain with stabbing weapon...

First, and here's the important bit - they're SUPERHEROES. They do 'super' stuff. The limits of which are given by A) their power set, B) their skill set and C) the creative whim of their writer and editorial team.

In debating, we then sift through all of the above and when we strike a consistent pattern in a given heroes performance and /or achievements, we delineate what they can and cannot do. In this case, DD has skill enough to drop baddies with significantly superior power sets due to his significantly superior skill set as he has been written as such consistently for decades. Despite his 'on paper' peak human attributes. His skill can see him landing very telling nerve strikes or pressure points for example. Lot's of ways to handle skill in a fantasy setting.

But yes, there are limits. And yes, Wesker stretches those limits.

We have things established like 'PIS' and 'WIS' to determine when a certain showing has drawn too far outside the lines. But that's not to say if an MMA fighter cannot pull it off, then Batman should not be able to either ... that's silly.

Second, comic books are based loosely in reality yes, and well they should be, but certainly not exclusively - nor should they. They should stretch the limits of probability. Do you think comics are the only medium that stretch the limits of the imagination and credibility as to what is realistic or not? Hollywood is full to the brim with action movies portraying their action heroes doing outrageous crap no one in 'real life' should be able to pull off.

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Picard

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#104  Edited By Picard

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@xxironspiderxx said:

Everyone is just sayin albert wins and listing his feats nobody will list matts. Im not saying matt wins im just saying stop underestimating him

Skill in the comic book realm should never be underestimated.

Classic case of skill versus stats. I do believe we on the Vine drool far too much over 'superior' stats. Fact is, comic book top tier fighters are superhuman in their own right (Matt actually redirects bullets with precision - them there are superhuman reflexes at work). And the fact is, they are consistently written taking down powerhouses they would have no business taking down in 'real life'. I can run off a list if anyone doubts ...

Matt has held up against far more impressive adversaries than Wesker has IMHO.

This is not a stomp.

Funny thing, I always thought that people on comicvine are overestimating skills, not stats. Logically someone who is simultaneously faster, stronger and more durable than you, will always defeat you in random encounter. Let's use the analogy: North American P-51 Mustang piloted by excellent pilot versus F-16 Fighting Falcon piloted by mediocre pilot, who would win? Or M4 Sherman controlled by greatly skilled crew versus M1 Abrams controlled by mediocre crew, again who should win? This is classical case of swordsman vs. gunslinger... Every time you will doubt that stats are more important than skills watch Riders of the lost ark: arabian swordsman shows off his skills with a sword, Indiana Jones just point a gun at him and shoot him on a spot. :) Yes, skilled peak humans defeted superhumans on many occasions - this thing have a name, it is called: PIS/CIS. It's either done for the sake of story, or it is done to uplift certain characters. For example let's talk about this pressure points thing. Not only this is a cheap way to win - in this same way you can say that Daredevil will win this fight because he will kick his opponent in the nuts ;) - but also I don't think that pressure points should work. If you have super durability, then your entire body is super durable including your nerves and all other weak spots. So I don't know why pressure points should be effective? And because of that Wesker stomps.

Your confusing real life logic with comics. It's that simple.

Martial skill in comic land does not operate under the same laws ... every-single-top-tier character has multiple feats attributed to him or her that in the real world would classify as superhuman and / or paranormal.

Top tier skill is an extremely potent superpower (and yes, I would classify it as such) to possess in comics.

Real world physics and logic have a very limited place whence debating the import and 'weight' of skill versus stats in comic books.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Everytime I point this out, I always get this same response: comic book logic is different that real life logic, it's like saying it's just comic book, what did you expect? It is like both authors and reader's didn't have respect for the medium. But it's not looney toons! This "diffrent logic" thing it's a cop out, a lousy excuse for bad writing. Basically everyone who claim that Daredevil and similar characters could defeat opponents that are way out of their league, is no different from that guy who claimed that T-1000 could kill Superman by poking his brain with stabbing weapon...

First, and here's the important bit - they're SUPERHEROES. They do 'super' stuff. The limits of which are given by A) their power set, B) their skill set and C) the creative whim of their writer and editorial team.

In debating, we then sift through all of the above and when we strike a consistent pattern in a given heroes performance and /or achievements, we delineate what they can and cannot do. In this case, DD has skill enough to drop baddies with significantly superior power sets due to his significantly superior skill set as he has been written as such consistently for decades. Despite his 'on paper' peak human attributes. His skill can see him landing very telling nerve strikes or pressure points for example. Lot's of ways to handle skill in a fantasy setting.

But yes, there are limits. And yes, Wesker stretches those limits.

We have things established like 'PIS' and 'WIS' to determine when a certain showing has drawn too far outside the lines. But that's not to say if an MMA fighter cannot pull it off, then Batman should not be able to either ... that's silly.

Second, comic books are based loosely in reality yes, and well they should be, but certainly not exclusively - nor should they. They should stretch the limits of probability. Do you think comics are the only medium that stretch the limits of the imagination and credibility as to what is realistic or not? Hollywood is full to the brim with action movies portraying their action heroes doing outrageous crap no one in 'real life' should be able to pull off.

I still don't but this. You bring this nerve strikes thing again... how this is any different than saying that T-1000 could kill Superman by poking Superman's brain? You all laughed at guy who said that, and rightfully so. How pressure points are any different, in what way they nullify super durability, when every part of the body should be equally resilient? And you said things that everyone says: consistent showings make it valid. I don't agree. Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't. Sure comic book are not reality, thats why I can accept idea of blind martial artist fighting organized crime. Daredevil's radar sense it's greatly exaggerated but it's actually rooted in reality: blind people compensate for loss of vision by sharpening other senses or at least they attach greater importance to taste, touch, smell, hear etc. But that don't make Daredevil superhuman, that make him human with exaggerated human abilities, that doesn't mean that he should go toe to toe with actual superhumans, you know people who are stronger, faster, tougher than him. How he can even touch someone who is significantly faster than him and move faster than he can react, how can he hurt people who are a lot more tougher than him, how can he take hits from people who are a lot stronger than him? There is no explanation other than because the plot says so. Don't get me wrong, because comics are not reall I can accept all sorts of things: flying aliens from planet Krypton, nordic gods, mutants or other silly things but those are adequately explained. Martial arts = superpowers is no explanation, especially when authors insists on saying that those martial artists indeed are not superhumans and they don't have any powers! When you want your hero to do superhuman stuff, give him superpowers, don't claim that he is powerless - it's self contradictory statement. And when someone in movies does something completely impossible audience don't try to rationalize it, there is name for it: :)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/121/003/Nuking_the_Fridge_by_GreyOfPTA.jpg

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jashro44

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#105  Edited By jashro44

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

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#106  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

But Iron Fist have superpowers, does he? He can channel chi energy...

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jashro44

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#107  Edited By jashro44

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

But Iron Fist have superpowers, does he? He can channel chi energy...

He got his super powers through studying martial arts.

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#108  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

But Iron Fist have superpowers, does he? He can channel chi energy...

He got his super powers through studying martial arts.

yes, and that's all explanation I need: my character gain powers through martial art training. The key thing is that he indeed have powers, it is explained, authors don't go around and say that he is just powerless dude who only fight well, but he inexplicably doing superhuman things...

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#109  Edited By jashro44

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

But Iron Fist have superpowers, does he? He can channel chi energy...

He got his super powers through studying martial arts.

yes, and that's all explanation I need: my character gain powers through martial art training. The key thing is that he indeed have powers, it is explained, authors don;t going around and saying that he is just powerless dude who only fight well, but he inexplicably doing superhuman things...

But thats not what you said...You said if Matt started shooting lightning bolts and laser beams and they just said he has those super powers due to martial arts training you wouldn't except it...But thats exactly what iron fist is (more or less).

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Picard

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#110  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard:

Let's say that Matt Murdock shoot lightning bolts from his finger tips and lazer beams from his eyes without any other explanation than: he was trained in martial arts... You would bought this? Because I'm sure that I won't.

Do you buy into iron fist leveling Hellicarriers in 1 punch? If so how is this any different then what you describing?

But Iron Fist have superpowers, does he? He can channel chi energy...

He got his super powers through studying martial arts.

yes, and that's all explanation I need: my character gain powers through martial art training. The key thing is that he indeed have powers, it is explained, authors don;t going around and saying that he is just powerless dude who only fight well, but he inexplicably doing superhuman things...

But thats not what you said...You said if Matt started shooting lightning bolts and laser beams and they just said he has those super powers due to martial arts training you wouldn't except it...But thats exactly what iron fist is (more or less).

I also said: Martial arts = superpowers is no explanation, especially when authors insists on saying that those martial artists indeed are not superhumans and they don't have any powers! When you want your hero to do superhuman stuff, give him superpowers, don't claim that he is powerless - it's self contradictory statement.

That's the thing - just say that your character have powers, don't insist that he is just peak human who is inexplicably doing superhuman things just because he know kung-fu :)

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#111  Edited By jashro44

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

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#112  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

And that's why I call it PIS/CIS, that's why it is like jumping the shark, nuking the fridge etc. Just because it happened many times don't make it any less stupid. Key thing is that Iron first gained skills and powers during his MA training and Daredevil only gained skills, so there is no explanations for his superhuman abilities, especially when authors going around, saying: "No, no he's just a human, no powers there!" -It's self contradictory. And I'm sorry, but ability to fight well, don't give you superpowers. Again it's not looney tunes

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#113  Edited By jashro44

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

And that's why I call it PIS/CIS, that's why it is like jumping the shark, nuking the fridge etc. Just because it happened many times don't make it any less stupid. Key thing is that Iron first gained skills and powers during his MA training and Daredevil only gained skills, so there is no explanations for his superhuman abilities, especially when authors going around, saying: "No, no he's just a human, no powers there!" -It's self contradictory. And I'm sorry, but ability to fight well, don't give you superpowers. Again it's not looney tunes

It may not be looney tunes but its still fiction. Its not real. We go by consistent showings. Its all made up. Realistically no one would even have super powers that exist in comics.

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#114  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

And that's why I call it PIS/CIS, that's why it is like jumping the shark, nuking the fridge etc. Just because it happened many times don't make it any less stupid. Key thing is that Iron first gained skills and powers during his MA training and Daredevil only gained skills, so there is no explanations for his superhuman abilities, especially when authors going around, saying: "No, no he's just a human, no powers there!" -It's self contradictory. And I'm sorry, but ability to fight well, don't give you superpowers. Again it's not looney tunes

It may not be looney tunes but its still fiction. Its not real. We go by consistent showings. Its all made up. Realistically no one would even have super powers that exist in comics.

Again you don't understand. Only because it's not real don't mean that it should be completely unrealistic. When I see Indiana Jones surviving atomic explosion in the fridge I call it stupid and I don't care that he is fictional character. Indy was described as human without powers so he have human limitations. Same with Daredevil. And authors insist on saying that he is only human! For example he can lift only 450 lbs so how can he hurt people who take hits from much stronger, superhumanly strong characters? It is self contradictory

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#115  Edited By jashro44

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

And that's why I call it PIS/CIS, that's why it is like jumping the shark, nuking the fridge etc. Just because it happened many times don't make it any less stupid. Key thing is that Iron first gained skills and powers during his MA training and Daredevil only gained skills, so there is no explanations for his superhuman abilities, especially when authors going around, saying: "No, no he's just a human, no powers there!" -It's self contradictory. And I'm sorry, but ability to fight well, don't give you superpowers. Again it's not looney tunes

It may not be looney tunes but its still fiction. Its not real. We go by consistent showings. Its all made up. Realistically no one would even have super powers that exist in comics.

Again you don't understand. Only because it's not real don't mean that it should be completely unrealistic. When I see Indiana Jones surviving atomic explosion in the fridge I call it stupid and I don't care that he is fictional character. Indy was described as human without powers so he have human limitations. Same with Daredevil. And authors insist on saying that he is only human! For example he can lift only 450 lbs so how can he hurt people who take hits from much stronger, superhumanly strong characters? It is self contradictory

Some of these characters have shown vulnerability to nerve pinches and pressure points. It might be pis if they showed they could resist those attacks but there are different kinds of durability. For example spider-man has been tossed through buildings by rhino and survived but he isn't bullet proof. There are different sorts of durability. I agree that I do not think daredevil can hurt wesker but someone like hyde is a different story...

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#116  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: But plenty of characters aren't like that. Both iron fist and karate kid have super human feats but they achieve these super human feats because of martial arts. Pretty much everything in comics isn't realistic, in real life bullet dodging is impossible but in comics everyone does it.

And that's why I call it PIS/CIS, that's why it is like jumping the shark, nuking the fridge etc. Just because it happened many times don't make it any less stupid. Key thing is that Iron first gained skills and powers during his MA training and Daredevil only gained skills, so there is no explanations for his superhuman abilities, especially when authors going around, saying: "No, no he's just a human, no powers there!" -It's self contradictory. And I'm sorry, but ability to fight well, don't give you superpowers. Again it's not looney tunes

It may not be looney tunes but its still fiction. Its not real. We go by consistent showings. Its all made up. Realistically no one would even have super powers that exist in comics.

Again you don't understand. Only because it's not real don't mean that it should be completely unrealistic. When I see Indiana Jones surviving atomic explosion in the fridge I call it stupid and I don't care that he is fictional character. Indy was described as human without powers so he have human limitations. Same with Daredevil. And authors insist on saying that he is only human! For example he can lift only 450 lbs so how can he hurt people who take hits from much stronger, superhumanly strong characters? It is self contradictory

Some of these characters have shown vulnerability to nerve pinches and pressure points. It might be pis if they showed they could resist those attacks but there are different kinds of durability. For example spider-man has been tossed through buildings by rhino and survived but he isn't bullet proof. There are different sorts of durability. I agree that I do not think daredevil can hurt wesker but someone like hyde is a different story...

Why they are vulnerable against pressure points when their nerves shouldn't be less resilient than the rest of their bodies? It is like saying that T-1000 could kill Superman by poking his brain with stabbing weapon... same thing: attack theoretically vulnerable point, but it shouldn't matter because Superman's whole body is super durable...

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jashro44

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#117  Edited By jashro44

@Picard: The bladed weapon wont pass supermans eyes. I'm pretty sure his eyes are extremely durable as well. Not to mention superman has a healing factor so it wont stop him at all. And even so terminator can never tough superman. Not to mention that the fact that when superman does stuff like tank colliding planets he would have massive brain damage if he didn't have a durable brain. Thing is that is a theoretical attack. Daredevil has actually nerve striked hyde. I don't know about wesker as it is only theoretical. Personally I don't think nerve strikes will work but all we can really do is speculate.

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nick_hero22

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#118  Edited By nick_hero22

@god_spawn said:

@jashro44: I think his speed, skill, radar sense and precision is enough to put Wesker down and I think people are underestimating Matt's own strength here.He isn't strong like Wesker is but combined with his skill, radar sense and clubs, Wesker will be feeling it and his skill gap with DD's senses will be trouble.

I think that Daredevil could give Wesker a good fight, but his radar sense is virtually useless in this fight. Wesker is much more faster which will make it significantly more harder to perceive his movements compared to your standard street levelers, even though Daredevil sense allow him to detect the twitches of muscles. I will be willingly to bet that Wesker's muscles twitch much faster in order for him to movement at a higher level of speed than your standard humans, which will make it difficult for Daredevil to successful anticipate his movements, so his radar sense is basically a non-factor here unless it gives him to ability perceive the human anatomy at a superhuman rate, which I don't think is the case here since he has had trouble dealing with people like Captain America who has speed interior to Wesker. But on the bright side Daredevil is much more agile and acrobatic which I think will allow him to take advantage of Wesker's lack of skill when he tries to utilize speed rushes, which people like Chris Redfield were able to predict and evade. I'm kind of iffy about the nerve strike situation to a degree, Wesker's dermis seems to be a lot more durable than a standard human, so I guest it could be up for debate whether or not that Daredevil would be able to apply the right amount of pressure and it's effects on Wesker.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@Picard:

Why are you going to extremes and talking about T-1000 versus Superman? There is absolutely no correlation to this discussion. None. Whatsoever.

I addressed all your points clearly and succinctly. You are off the point and with respect, I don't care to join you in repeating myself. I don't feel you have a point that really addresses what I'm saying. At all.

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Picard

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#120  Edited By Picard

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: The bladed weapon wont pass supermans eyes. I'm pretty sure his eyes are extremely durable as well. Not to mention superman has a healing factor so it wont stop him at all. And even so terminator can never tough superman. Not to mention that the fact that when superman does stuff like tank colliding planets he would have massive brain damage if he didn't have a durable brain. Thing is that is a theoretical attack. Daredevil has actually nerve striked hyde. I don't know about wesker as it is only theoretical. Personally I don't think nerve strikes will work but all we can really do is speculate.

I give you the exemple of fictional fight, discussed here at forum. Pretty much everyone agreed that guy who claimed that T-1000 could kill Superman is delusional. And rightfully so. Actually he said that Terminator will stick blade into Superman's nose, but this make no difference, it's equally stupid. Because Superman's brain is also super resilient, just like the rest of his body. That's the point: you can't just hurt someone with superhuman durability, no metter where you hit - brain, nerves, groin... This make no difference, because no metter where you hit, you still don't have strength to actually hurt person with superhuman durability. Even if nerves would be more vulnerable than the rest of superhuman body, then those nerves still would be protected by super tough skin and equally resilient muscles. So there is no way that Daredevil could really hurt people with superhuman durability. It's equally absurd like saying that T-1000 could kill Superman. Pressure points successfully used against person with superhuman durability are nothing more than PIS and I don't know why people are treating it like something believable? T-1000 poking Superman's brain = Daredevil's nerve strikes, there is no difference. Now you understand what I mean?

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard:

Why are you going to extremes and talking about T-1000 versus Superman? There is absolutely no correlation to this discussion. None. Whatsoever.

I addressed all your points clearly and succinctly. You are off the point and with respect, I don't care to join you in repeating myself. I don't feel you have a point that really addresses what I'm saying. At all.

Why? Because to say that Matt can hurt super durable people with his nerve strikes, and say that T-1000 can kill Superman by sticking blade in Superman's nose is equally absurd. You just can't hurt people with enhanced durability if you don't heve superstrength, no metter when you hit them, theirs durability are not going away just because you kickthis someone in the groin etc. That's my point.

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zackattack529

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#121  Edited By zackattack529

hey guys, how much you wanna bet that Picard's next post is going to reference the T-1000 vs Superman battle?

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Picard

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#122  Edited By Picard

@zackattack529 said:

hey guys, how much you wanna bet that Picard's next post is going to reference the T-1000 vs Superman battle?

Congratulations you would win the bet. :) This is just an exemple.

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zackattack529

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#123  Edited By zackattack529

@Picard: haha funny thing is I was actually in that Battle thread before it got locked! lol i warned the OP that it would turn into a shitstorm and would be locked, but he kept beating a dead-bush with that whole Blade up the nose stufff lol even wrote me a paragraph about it.

but i do see how your example works here....just..you're overusing it lol

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jashro44

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#124  Edited By jashro44

@Picard: The difference is superman has shown a super durable brain...Someone like Luke Cage has shown there nerves are venerable.

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#125  Edited By laflux

@Picard said:

@jashro44 said:

@Picard: The bladed weapon wont pass supermans eyes. I'm pretty sure his eyes are extremely durable as well. Not to mention superman has a healing factor so it wont stop him at all. And even so terminator can never tough superman. Not to mention that the fact that when superman does stuff like tank colliding planets he would have massive brain damage if he didn't have a durable brain. Thing is that is a theoretical attack. Daredevil has actually nerve striked hyde. I don't know about wesker as it is only theoretical. Personally I don't think nerve strikes will work but all we can really do is speculate.

I give you the exemple of fictional fight, discussed here at forum. Pretty much everyone agreed that guy who claimed that T-1000 could kill Superman is delusional. And rightfully so. Actually he said that Terminator will stick blade into Superman's nose, but this make no difference, it's equally stupid. Because Superman's brain is also super resilient, just like the rest of his body. That's the point: you can't just hurt someone with superhuman durability, no metter where you hit - brain, nerves, groin... This make no difference, because no metter where you hit, you still don't have strength to actually hurt person with superhuman durability. Even if nerves would be more vulnerable than the rest of superhuman body, then those nerves still would be protected by super tough skin and equally resilient muscles. So there is no way that Daredevil could really hurt people with superhuman durability. It's equally absurd like saying that T-1000 could kill Superman. Pressure points successfully used against person with superhuman durability are nothing more than PIS and I don't know why people are treating it like something believable? T-1000 poking Superman's brain = Daredevil's nerve strikes, there is no difference. Now you understand what I mean?

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Picard:

Why are you going to extremes and talking about T-1000 versus Superman? There is absolutely no correlation to this discussion. None. Whatsoever.

I addressed all your points clearly and succinctly. You are off the point and with respect, I don't care to join you in repeating myself. I don't feel you have a point that really addresses what I'm saying. At all.

Why? Because to say that Matt can hurt super durable people with his nerve strikes, and say that T-1000 can kill Superman by sticking blade in Superman's nose is equally absurd. You just can't hurt people with enhanced durability if you don't heve superstrength, no metter when you hit them, theirs durability are not going away just because you kickthis someone in the groin etc. That's my point.

Please lets leave the super-man vs t-1000 out of this.

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Bane_of_sith

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#126  Edited By Bane_of_sith

DD has senses to see incoming bullets..his senses are so keen he senses the trajectory of anything coming at him,,even muscle tension before a strike is received and analyzed...wesker may be strong and durable but no way near DD's level in skill..he may move fast but not as fast as a bullet and DD dodges them with ease..and DD has used a nearly 500 lb weight as a weapon,,launched a car engine by stretching a tire like a rubberband so IMO he has sufficient strength to deliver a nerve strike with devastating force,speed and precision,,he one shotted Hyde and completely stopped his breathing and has Ko'd spidey and countless others who are over 10 tonners,,,IMO wesker would have a hard time hitting a guy whose senses are superior to spiderman,,hell DD saved spidey from a sniper before,,,he has also stalemated the likes of T'challa, captain America, and IronFist,,,,as far as durability goes he even defeated infomorph who was a cyborg programmed with DD and captain A's fighting ability...I doubt wesker is denser than steel,,and DD has amazing durability himself,,,when he was tossed off a bridge after fighting nearly every rogue in his gallery by typhoid Mary he fell a couple hundred feet on solid ground used meditation to bring himself back from he dead,,than concentrated enough to heal himself enough that he walked to the hospital,,,anyone saying this is a stomp doesn't know jack about DD and personally I think DD could pull this off

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icysloth

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#127  Edited By icysloth

@Bane_of_sith: Wesker is dense enough that he can be hit in the face with a metal pipe and be unaffected, wesker can teleport/flash step and move faster than bullets so he could hit DD, he also has survived jumping out of a window into a chasm. And when you say DD could pull it off, the meaning is differnet than would pull it off. It is plausible that DD would win but its not likely.

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Bane_of_sith

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#128  Edited By Bane_of_sith

I know there's a difference that's why I said could and not would pull it off,,,I think in a series of ten wesker would take six,,I'm stating facts so people don't just think this is a stomp like many are saying,,I love DD but weskers durability IMO wins him this fight but not easily

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TifaLockhart

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#129  Edited By TifaLockhart

@Bane_of_sith: I'd actually say Wesker's durability isn't that great but it's his speed that's his biggest attribute.

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Bane_of_sith

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#130  Edited By Bane_of_sith

I think DD Could handle his speed,,as I said before the guy could see incoming bullets like nothing but trying to hit a guy who survived RPGs and falls from hundreds of feet with out incident will be hard to overcome too hard IMO the speed is a factor though but in the end his ridiculous ability to take major damage would give him an edge

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TifaLockhart

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#131  Edited By TifaLockhart

@Bane_of_sith: I wasn't suggesting Daredevil couldn't handle the speed; merely stating that Wesker's "hard" durability didn't really impress me. He can be damaged by the knife, and he still felt Chris' blows. But I will agree that his "damage soak" is high.

I forget if he had a minor healing factor or what.

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#132  Edited By Bane_of_sith

He has taken blows that have killed DD so that's why I give him an edge in durability,,,his speed is greater the Matt but I'm not sure it would faze hi being that he faces down bullets all the time but it's hard to say which factor contributes most to his win,,I still think that his toughness brings him a win,,,IronFist with chi powers would win cause he has the skill, speed and ridiculous strength to overcome weskers super toughness

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icysloth

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#133  Edited By icysloth

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: I feel Weskers durability is widely in flux in the games sometimes he feels chris hit him with his hand and other times he can be hit with a crowbar and shrug it off. His durabillity is probably higher than DD's, but his speed and strength are the real deciding factors.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@Picard:

Why? Because to say that Matt can hurt super durable people with his nerve strikes, and say that T-1000 can kill Superman by sticking blade in Superman's nose is equally absurd. You just can't hurt people with enhanced durability if you don't heve superstrength, no metter when you hit them, theirs durability are not going away just because you kickthis someone in the groin etc. That's my point.

Actually, in comics, you can. Sorry, but there is no way to test the validity of your claim IRL as characters like Superman are fictional. As are the stories that surround. Something you need to accept a little more.

Again, we're talking about Wesker here, not Superman. HUGE difference in viability.

IRL, strength versus durability have little to nothing to do with nerve strikes and / or pressure points and their effectiveness. In comics they are established to exploit weaknesses that even 'super' durable folks have. Martial masters know the physiological make-up of their foes enough to exploit. And again, let's not compare Wesker's durability, or even Hyde's or Rhino's, to Superman. I do not believe Superman could be taken out via nerve strike unless some weakness in Kryptonian physiology exists that can be studied, mastered and exploited.

If you like to adhere to 'real life' then as we have no Supermen in real life, the only comparison I can proffer is the very real fact that even a two year old can inflict a nerve strike or pressure point attack on an adult were they to know exactly where and how. It's not at all about strength.

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#135  Edited By TifaLockhart

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

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@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

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nick_hero22

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#137  Edited By nick_hero22

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

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Super_SoldierXII

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@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

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Laurcus

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#139  Edited By Laurcus

I don't think Wesker is very durable at all. I do think he has an absolutely crazy healing factor though. That's how the zombie viruses like the Prototype Virus work. There's a reason headshots don't kill more powerful enemies in RE instantly. Every cell of the body is capable of such incredible regeneration it's ridiculous.

Oh, and Wesker losing to Chris and Sheva was pure PIS. Wesker has shown the strength to rip out people's hearts, (he does it to Chris if you fail a QTE) and he can move faster than the eye can see. Yet when you fight him, he rarely uses his super speed, and even when he does use it he uses it strictly as a gap closer, not as the start of an attack. Most of the time he walks around slowly while taunting you. Why didn't he just run circles around Chris and rip his head off? Terrible, unbelievable fight.

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nick_hero22

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#140  Edited By nick_hero22

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

But the nerve cluster are located under skin and tissue, It doesn't make sense that a character who is basically bulletproof would be effected by nerve strikes when their dermis is several times much stronger and dense than a standard human. Nerve Strike requires a certain amount of pressure for it to take effect, but it should take a significant amount of pressure in order to hit these cluster when someone has superhuman durability. Sense of touch is a direct response from the sensory receptor in skin that send information to the brain regarding what touched you and it's impact which should be lessen when characters have enhanced durability, not random nerve clusters.

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Laurcus

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#141  Edited By Laurcus

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

But the nerve cluster are located under skin and tissue, It doesn't make sense that a character who is basically bulletproof would be effected by nerve strikes when their dermis is several times much stronger and dense than a standard human. Nerve Strike requires a certain amount of pressure for it to take effect, but it should take a significant amount of pressure in order to hit these cluster when someone has superhuman durability. Sense of touch is a direct response from the sensory receptor in skin that send information to the brain regarding what touched you and it's impact which should be lessen when characters have enhanced durability, not random nerve clusters.

Does Wesker even have nerves or a nervous system? He's hardly Human in RE5, he's a B.O.W.

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nick_hero22

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#142  Edited By nick_hero22

@Laurcus said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

But the nerve cluster are located under skin and tissue, It doesn't make sense that a character who is basically bulletproof would be effected by nerve strikes when their dermis is several times much stronger and dense than a standard human. Nerve Strike requires a certain amount of pressure for it to take effect, but it should take a significant amount of pressure in order to hit these cluster when someone has superhuman durability. Sense of touch is a direct response from the sensory receptor in skin that send information to the brain regarding what touched you and it's impact which should be lessen when characters have enhanced durability, not random nerve clusters.

Does Wesker even have nerves or a nervous system? He's hardly Human in RE5, he's a B.O.W.

That should be taken into consideration along with the fact that Wesker has a very potent accelerated healing factor.

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Chaos Prime

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#143  Edited By Chaos Prime

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

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nick_hero22

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#144  Edited By nick_hero22

@Chaos Prime said:

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

It's highly debatable whether a nerve strike would be effective or not due to his durability and healing factor.

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#145  Edited By Chaos Prime

@nick_hero22 said:

@Chaos Prime said:

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

It's highly debatable whether a nerve strike would be effective or not due to his durability and healing factor.

wasnt that his achilles heel in the past?

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Laurcus

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#146  Edited By Laurcus

@Chaos Prime said:

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

Probably not. He's a high tier Bio Organic Weapon. I doubt ripping out his heart and chopping off his head would do anything. The only reason he was able to be killed in RE5 is because he overdosed on his serum due to Chris and Sheva injecting him with it. He needs precise doses of his serum to keep his powers under control. Too little and he starts to go crazy, as the Prototype Virus will beging taking him over completely. Too much and his powers become weaker.

I really think to kill a full power Wesker nothing less than total disintegration will do. He literally does not care if he gets shot in the face. And it's not like his skin is super durable. It passes right through his brains and leaves no lasting damage. It's like that for all B.O.W.s, like the chainsaw guys for example.

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nick_hero22

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#147  Edited By nick_hero22

@Chaos Prime said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Chaos Prime said:

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

It's highly debatable whether a nerve strike would be effective or not due to his durability and healing factor.

wasnt that his achilles heel in the past?

What? I don't ever recall Wesker being vulnerable to nerve strikes.

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Chaos Prime

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#148  Edited By Chaos Prime

@nick_hero22 said:

@Chaos Prime said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Chaos Prime said:

So a well placed strike to his chest wont effect Wesker then?

It's highly debatable whether a nerve strike would be effective or not due to his durability and healing factor.

wasnt that his achilles heel in the past?

What? I don't ever recall Wesker being vulnerable to nerve strikes.

was lead to believe his weak spot was his chest..

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Super_SoldierXII

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@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

But the nerve cluster are located under skin and tissue, It doesn't make sense that a character who is basically bulletproof would be effected by nerve strikes when their dermis is several times much stronger and dense than a standard human. Nerve Strike requires a certain amount of pressure for it to take effect, but it should take a significant amount of pressure in order to hit these cluster when someone has superhuman durability. Sense of touch is a direct response from the sensory receptor in skin that send information to the brain regarding what touched you and it's impact which should be lessen when characters have enhanced durability, not random nerve clusters.

So Superman's skin is to be assumed as implacable as steel then? I don't buy it. I feel it's pliable, which means you can touch nerve clusters, only it's not destructible or breakable. Otherwise, life would suck for him.

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nick_hero22

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#150  Edited By nick_hero22

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

For what it's worth, in a crossover Giant-Man was hurt by a nerve strike from Black Canary, and Pre-Crisis, Shrinking Violet actually managed to hurt Validus by hitting him in a certain spot.

For what it's worth. There may be examples of this for Superman-level characters. Karnak hurt Surfer with a thrown chimney because he detects weak points.

Wolverine took out Kid Gladiator via pressure point. That was because he had studied and knew of their genetic weaknesses as a race (Strontians).

Pressure points / nerve strikes, by definition, bypass invulnerability by knowing of 'vulnerabilities' and where, physiologically, a race/character is exposed.

Even Kryptonian physiology may possess said vulnerabilities ...

They are triggered more via pin point location than application of brute force.

I don't understand how nerve strikes bypass invulnerable when invulnerable is tied to the durability of the dermis and the tissue layers of a said character. It seems like WIS to me.

No not really. Are you assuming Superman has no feeling when Lois runs her fingers through his hair or that pinching his cheek is impossible? My uncle specializes in acupressure and natural healing. He's studied pressure points extensively. Instead of causing me pain to prove a point, he lightly touched a very precise point on my forearm that immediately relaxed me. It has nothing to do with brute force or tissue durability or the like ... some pressure point do require that an adequate amount of pressure be placed to take effect. But certainly not all.

If Superman has feeling, nerves (etc.), he has a physiology than can be effected when manipulated. The tissue or cells need not be compromised.

But the nerve cluster are located under skin and tissue, It doesn't make sense that a character who is basically bulletproof would be effected by nerve strikes when their dermis is several times much stronger and dense than a standard human. Nerve Strike requires a certain amount of pressure for it to take effect, but it should take a significant amount of pressure in order to hit these cluster when someone has superhuman durability. Sense of touch is a direct response from the sensory receptor in skin that send information to the brain regarding what touched you and it's impact which should be lessen when characters have enhanced durability, not random nerve clusters.

So Superman's skin is to be assumed as implacable as steel then? I don't buy it. I feel it's pliable, which means you can touch nerve clusters, only it's not destructible or breakable. Otherwise, life would suck for him.

Sensory Receptor's main function is to relay information concerning a stimulus to the brain, it is entirely up to the brain how the stimulus is interpreted and responded to.