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#1 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Pre-52 Alan Scott, random encounter, no BFR. Win by KO, death, or permanent incapacitation.

Round 1: Regular Alan Scott, fighting at the best of his abilities.

Round 2: Bloodlusted Alan Scott.

#2 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Void Sentry uber-stomps

Round 2: I have no idea. @beatboks1 could the Starheart beat Void Sentry?

#3 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Void Sentry uber-stomps

Round 2: I have no idea. @beatboks1 could the Starheart beat Void Sentry?

Lol... The living encyclopedia

#4 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with:

Round 1: Void wins in a good fight.

Round 2: Alan beats Void down pretty decisively. Alan wins: 9.5/10

But my mind can be changed with good arguments, especially for round 1.

Edit: I changed my mind about Round 1. Previously had it for Alan. But, Alan holds himself back when not bloodlusted, and I have to admit he has enough low showings to make me think Void would win.

#5 Posted by WhiteLantern#1 (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Beatboks is going to come in here and embarrass the Void enthusiasts

#6 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (11828 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: dude, why even make round 2 if you know it's going to be a stomp.

#7 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1, the Rob definitely Voidstomps

Round 2 is tough because he has starheart, which is all the magic in the universe at the time the guardians gathered it, but then again sentry has Molecule man or greater molecular manipulation, plus we're allowing void into this fight so he's even more ridiculous.

But seeing that sentry really can't die, and void won't allow him too, i think i'll lean closer toward Robby on this.

#8 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: dude, why even make round 2 if you know it's going to be a stomp.

Because I was having a conversation with someone about this, and also for completeness. This way people can voice their views on the fight both ways. No point in making two separate threads, especially if I do believe that one will be a stomp... right? Also, it's possible that people give good arguments and I'll change my mind about round 2. Just because I think it's a stomp doesnt meant it is a stomp.

#9 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (11828 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

But seeing that sentry really can't die, and void won't allow him too, i think i'll lean closer toward Robby on this.

Neither can Alan Scott, so that point is moot.

#10 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (11828 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

@willpayton: dude, why even make round 2 if you know it's going to be a stomp.

Because I was having a conversation with someone about this, and also for completeness. This way people can voice their views on the fight both ways. No point in making two separate threads, especially if I do believe that one will be a stomp... right? Also, it's possible that people give good arguments and I'll change my mind about round 2. Just because I think it's a stomp doesnt meant it is a stomp.

..... *sigh* I'll just wait for @beatboks1.....

#12 Posted by WhiteLantern#1 (616 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days: thanks, I couldn't tag him I'm on my iPhone and comicvine isn't mobile friendly with tagging and quoting :(.

#13 Posted by beatboks1 (7000 posts) - - Show Bio

Void would win round one. It wont be by death as the only way to kill Alan is to cut him off from the Starheart ( his energy) which has only been done by high end mages/mystics ( Mordru, Elcipso and the Starheart entity itself)

Round 2 IMO should be pretty damn good and a very close battle. I'm loath to actually pick a winner because if I did I think my inner Alan Scot fanboy would color my judgement. Starheart possessed Alan ( which is what a bloodlusted pre Flashpoint Alan becomes) is pretty damn close to to a voided Sentry IMO. Yeah Alan possessed and controlled the likes of Dr fate and Obsidian in this form while he toyed with every other hero. But then again Void also took on most of Marvel Earth and IIRC has had even Molecule man at his mercy and completely controlled his ability.

I think this is a LOT closer than anyone might want to admit. Certainly IMO no Stomp by either side here.

#14 Posted by dondave (34590 posts) - - Show Bio

Void would win round one. It wont be by death as the only way to kill Alan is to cut him off from the Starheart ( his energy) which has only been done by high end mages/mystics ( Mordru, Elcipso and the Starheart entity itself)

Round 2 IMO should be pretty damn good and a very close battle. I'm loath to actually pick a winner because if I did I think my inner Alan Scot fanboy would color my judgement. Starheart possessed Alan ( which is what a bloodlusted pre Flashpoint Alan becomes) is pretty damn close to to a voided Sentry IMO. Yeah Alan possessed and controlled the likes of Dr fate and Obsidian in this form while he toyed with every other hero. But then again Void also took on most of Marvel Earth and IIRC has had even Molecule man at his mercy and completely controlled his ability.

I think this is a LOT closer than anyone might want to admit. Certainly IMO no Stomp by either side here.

#15 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

Void would win round one. It wont be by death as the only way to kill Alan is to cut him off from the Starheart ( his energy) which has only been done by high end mages/mystics ( Mordru, Elcipso and the Starheart entity itself)

Round 2 IMO should be pretty damn good and a very close battle. I'm loath to actually pick a winner because if I did I think my inner Alan Scot fanboy would color my judgement. Starheart possessed Alan ( which is what a bloodlusted pre Flashpoint Alan becomes) is pretty damn close to to a voided Sentry IMO. Yeah Alan possessed and controlled the likes of Dr fate and Obsidian in this form while he toyed with every other hero. But then again Void also took on most of Marvel Earth and IIRC has had even Molecule man at his mercy and completely controlled his ability.

I think this is a LOT closer than anyone might want to admit. Certainly IMO no Stomp by either side here.

Problem is that the feats that Void has are in large part do to his molecular manipulation abilities... correct? Question is, how would that work on someone who is not make of matter or even normal energy? Answer: It wouldnt.

Alan has the advantage that he can use his magic-based abilities, which include time manipulation, mental control, and matter and energy manipulation to take out Sentry. Sentry, on the other hand, cant use that matter/energy manipulation on Alan. Yes, they both have similar power sets and power levels, but the nature of Alan's power means he has a big advantage over Void.

#16 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: i have to agree with you completely.

Void was Old testament God.

This man, the sentry, i feel like alot of people are underestimating him. even without the void,

this is the man who defeated molecule man.

this is the man spiderman stated to have stalemated galactus.

this is the same guy who willed himself back from death 3 times.

This is the man with the power of One Million Exploding Suns.

and with void...?

the void is the being who broke every single bone in hulks body, one by one, while holding hulk in place(holding hulk in place isn't easy, especially while breaking his bones)

this being was Old Testment God.

the sentry has been stated to be strongest hero of earth, above hulk and blackbolt.

at least give him a the chance when considering round 2 guys.

not to mention, his ability list is incredulous.

#17 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@beatboks1: i have to agree with you completely.

Void was Old testament God.

This man, the sentry, i feel like alot of people are underestimating him. even without the void,

this is the man who defeated molecule man.

this is the man spiderman stated to have stalemated galactus.

this is the same guy who willed himself back from death 3 times.

This is the man with the power of One Million Exploding Suns.

and with void...?

the void is the being who broke every single bone in hulks body, one by one, while holding hulk in place(holding hulk in place isn't easy, especially while breaking his bones)

this being was Old Testment God.

the sentry has been stated to be strongest hero of earth, above hulk and blackbolt.

at least give him a the chance when considering round 2 guys.

not to mention, his ability list is incredulous.

Again, people keep saying that Void wins but give no argument of how he's accomplish this feat.

"One Million Exploding Suns" - This alone makes me want to ignore everything else in your post. Hyperbolic statements are not an actual measure of any characters powers. Neither are "Spiderman said"... I mean, seriously?

Being "above hulk and blackbolt" is not impressive... at all.

#18 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: i was just making a point dude, no reason we can't debate in a friendly matter..

but yeah i was just listing a few things, whether you think one or two of them is unimpressive is up to you bro, i never expected everyone to like everything i wrote.

And i wasn't making any hyperbolic statements. i was just stating was is Canonically stated Multiple times.

And i for one take Spiderman's statement for truth, why would spiderman who's thinking to himself about his memories of sentry lie? why would the writer blatantly lie? but all in all i wasn't even arguing for sentry in that post, i was just asking people to consider him in this battle.

#19 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, people keep saying that Void wins but give no argument of how he's accomplish this feat.

"One Million Exploding Suns" - This alone makes me want to ignore everything else in your post. Hyperbolic statements are not an actual measure of any characters powers. Neither are "Spiderman said"... I mean, seriously?

Being "above hulk and blackbolt" is not impressive... at all.

You are right. When facing someone like Alan Scott, being above Hulk and Black Bolt is nothing special. But the 'one million exploding suns' is not a hyperbolic overstatement. He did release such power during his fight against Black Bolt, when they were alone in a universe. Sentry was also above Thor and Molecule Man. Thor has amazing feats already, but Molecule Man? That guy was ridiculously powerful even after various retcons. On top of that Sentry easily defeated the Absorbing Man, who was able to absorb even Odin's magic. Sentry broke through Dooms shields multiple times, which lasted against Silver Surfer, Galactus and even Thanos with the IG.

That has to add at least something to his credibility as an uber-powerful being.

#20 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@willpayton: i was just making a point dude, no reason we can't debate in a friendly matter..

but yeah i was just listing a few things, whether you think one or two of them is unimpressive is up to you bro, i never expected everyone to like everything i wrote.

And i wasn't making any hyperbolic statements. i was just stating was is Canonically stated Multiple times.

And i for one take Spiderman's statement for truth, why would spiderman who's thinking to himself about his memories of sentry lie? why would the writer blatantly lie? but all in all i wasn't even arguing for sentry in that post, i was just asking people to consider him in this battle.

I'm just pointing out it's a hyperbolic statement, not accusing you of making it up. I've seen it before since it's in the comics, but it's just something the characters said... and I havent seen any evidence that it's true. Sentry's fight with WWH when he wasnt holding back was hardly evidence of such power.

As far as Spiderman's statement... it's just that, Spideman's statement. It's not the writer, it's the character. There's a difference.

@chibio said:

But the 'one million exploding suns' is not a hyperbolic overstatement. He did release such power during his fight against Black Bolt, when they were alone in a universe.

Scans?

@chibio said:

Sentry was also above Thor and Molecule Man.

Being above Thor is not that impressive when compared to bloodlusted Alan. Being above Molecule Man... I dont know how to take that other than simply inconsistent writing.

@chibio said:

On top of that Sentry easily defeated the Absorbing Man, who was able to absorb even Odin's magic. Sentry broke through Dooms shields multiple times, which lasted against Silver Surfer, Galactus and even Thanos with the IG.

That has to add at least something to his credibility as an uber-powerful being.

I agree he's very powerful. But I still see most of his power coming from physical strength and matter manipulation. All of that will get him exactly nowhere against Starheart-possessed Alan Scott.

#21 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Scans?

I'm terrible, when it comes to searching for scans :-( I don't even know if I managed to find them all, but here are few:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2320/newthunderbolts014page0.jpg

http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/sentry/sentry_photon.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8394/newthunderbolts014page1.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8394/newthunderbolts014page1.jpg

This has been discussed on a different board a lot and I agree with them. In the fight between Sentry and Genis-Vell they say that Sentry commands unfathomable energies. Genis-Vell sents them away. Look the way their energies are shown. Sentrys is shining and golden, just like the sun and Genis-Vell has crystalic blue energy. Genis then teleports them to a microverse, which comes from the Fantastic Four comics. Doctor Doom tried to become the ruler of such microverses. They're basically a miniature universe, where atoms are planets. Unfortunately Captain America is there as well. They fight and Genis teleports Captain America back, so now Sentry and Genis-Vell are alone and they release their energy. In the next panels you see golden energy expanding, passing atoms (which are planets) and even being in the real universe. You can see it on Iron Mans armor, since that's basically the area they were. It's Sentry's golden energy and judging by that it surpassed even an universe.

Now how big is such a miniverse? We don't exactly knows, but what if it really is a universe? That would mean that it's bigger than a galaxy and obviously even bigger than a dwarf galaxy, which has 10 millions of stars. Sentry is supposed to have the power of a million exploding suns, but they also say that he has infinite power levels and that it all depends on his mental state. It didn't look like he was in a weak mental state during his fight against Photon and that feat would turn him into a universe buster and that is so crazy, that even the biggest Sentry fanboys should ignore it. But it still shows that his energy levels are ridiculous. It also shows that they can be used as AOE attacks, so there is no escaping by dodging them. Of course you could say that partially it was also Genis-Vell who used that power, but all we see is golden energy, while Genis wield a different type of energy and he was actually only just shutting it down, as good as he could.

Being above Thor is not that impressive when compared to bloodlusted Alan. Being above Molecule Man... I dont know how to take that other than simply inconsistent writing.

The writers had an idea, when it came to that character. They created him to be more powerful. The good thing is that you can say that Sentry is still a much 'weaker' matter manipulator, because it seems like his power was directed at one point, which was Molecule Man at that point. He even said that he can't control it as good as he can, but he was still owning him, obviously by raw power.

I agree he's very powerful. But I still see most of his power coming from physical strength and matter manipulation. All of that will get him exactly nowhere against Starheart-possessed Alan Scott.

I'm not familiar with Alan Scott, so I don't know who would win. I'm just throwing out random feats for characters I know at least a bit. It's up to others to make use of it or not :-)

#22 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:
@willpayton said:

Scans?

I'm terrible, when it comes to searching for scans :-( I don't even know if I managed to find them all, but here are few:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2320/newthunderbolts014page0.jpg

http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/sentry/sentry_photon.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8394/newthunderbolts014page1.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8394/newthunderbolts014page1.jpg

This has been discussed on a different board a lot and I agree with them. In the fight between Sentry and Genis-Vell they say that Sentry commands unfathomable energies. Genis-Vell sents them away. Look the way their energies are shown. Sentrys is shining and golden, just like the sun and Genis-Vell has crystalic blue energy. Genis then teleports them to a microverse, which comes from the Fantastic Four comics. Doctor Doom tried to become the ruler of such microverses. They're basically a miniature universe, where atoms are planets. Unfortunately Captain America is there as well. They fight and Genis teleports Captain America back, so now Sentry and Genis-Vell are alone and they release their energy. In the next panels you see golden energy expanding, passing atoms (which are planets) and even being in the real universe. You can see it on Iron Mans armor, since that's basically the area they were. It's Sentry's golden energy and judging by that it surpassed even an universe.

Now how big is such a miniverse? We don't exactly knows, but what if it really is a universe? That would mean that it's bigger than a galaxy and obviously even bigger than a dwarf galaxy, which has 10 millions of stars. Sentry is supposed to have the power of a million exploding suns, but they also say that he has infinite power levels and that it all depends on his mental state. It didn't look like he was in a weak mental state during his fight against Photon and that feat would turn him into a universe buster and that is so crazy, that even the biggest Sentry fanboys should ignore it. But it still shows that his energy levels are ridiculous. It also shows that they can be used as AOE attacks, so there is no escaping by dodging them. Of course you could say that partially it was also Genis-Vell who used that power, but all we see is golden energy, while Genis wield a different type of energy and he was actually only just shutting it down, as good as he could.

Thanks for the scans. However, all I see are two guys fighting. There's some blue lights here, some yellow lights there, some floating rocks in another place, and then some little molecules elsewhere... Trying to draw conclusions by interpreting the art is not really going to get us anywhere. The only thing I see that even remotely looks like a concrete fact is where the writer says "The power both men spit out is enough to shred entire worlds". Ok... nice enough. How big are those "worlds"? The size of Jupiter? Pluto? I have no idea.

#23 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: sooo you missed "sentry's unfathomable powers escalate" and "sentry can draw energy from anywhere and everywhere" ?

look dude, i understand your opinion of alan scott beating sentry, but if worse comes to worse, then sentry will just conjure up a wooden bat, and hit alan repeatedly. him being weak to wood is not a helping factor in this fight.

#24 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:

I agree he's very powerful. But I still see most of his power coming from physical strength and matter manipulation. All of that will get him exactly nowhere against Starheart-possessed Alan Scott.

I'm not familiar with Alan Scott, so I don't know who would win. I'm just throwing out random feats for characters I know at least a bit. It's up to others to make use of it or not :-)

So, here's the thing about Alan... when he's bloodlusted he basically becomes possessed by a living entity made of pure magical energy. Alan doesnt have a physical, material body. What you see is a construct made of magic. When the Starheart entity takes over, it's in control, not Alan. The Starheart was originally made of all the magic (good and evil) in the universe when the Guardians of the Universe collected it all and put it in the center of a star. That was... a long time ago. Eventually it became sentient.

Starheart-possessed Alan has no atoms or any kind of matter or energy that Void can manipulate. So matter/energy manipulation will do nothing.

Alan has no physical body that can be hurt, so physical attacks will do nothing. He casually ignored heat vision attacks from Supergirl and hits from Power Girl because they meant nothing to him, he actually was having fun and daring them to try to hurt him. And, oh yeah, at the same time he was fighting the rest of DC Earth including Captain Atom, Jay Garrick, Atom Smasher, Citizen Steel, Stargirl, Mordru, Kyle Rayner, Jade, Donna Troy, Miss Martian and many others.

He easily mind-controlled Dr Fate, Obssedian, Miss Martian, and was about to control Power Girl when he teleported away from their fight. So, mental powers wont work on him.

How does Sentry hurt Alan? I dont see it. But, Alan can hurt Sentry in all sorts of ways. Matter/energy manipulation... he can do that. Physical attacks? Check. Mental attacks? Yes. Magical attacks? Also, yes.

Then on top of that Alan has powers like time manipulation. What does Void do if Alan decides to freeze him in time? Nothing, I'd imagine.

#25 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@willpayton: sooo you missed "sentry's unfathomable powers escalate" and "sentry can draw energy from anywhere and everywhere" ?

"Unfathomable powers"... sounds nice, but I have no idea what it even means. Sounds like colorful language from the writer to convey that Sentry is very powerful. Ok, I didnt say he's not powerful. But, "unfathomable" is hardly a quantifiable value. Feel free to prove me wrong however.

Hehehe... wooden bat... =)

Alan's weakness to wood was a psychological weakness, that came and went depending on his frame of mind. You can ask @beatboks1 about it if you want. No amount of wood is going to hurt Alan Scott in this fight.

#26 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio


Thanks for the scans. However, all I see are two guys fighting. There's some blue lights here, some yellow lights there, some floating rocks in another place, and then some little molecules elsewhere... Trying to draw conclusions by interpreting the art is not really going to get us anywhere. The only thing I see that even remotely looks like a concrete fact is where the writer says "The power both men spit out is enough to shred entire worlds". Ok... nice enough. How big are those "worlds"? The size of Jupiter? Pluto? I have no idea.

Well, you know what they say: It is what it is.
We interpret art all the time. When someone is on Earth on one panel and then on Pluto on the third panel we interpret that as a speed far, far beyond the speed of light. If someone is in a Microverse and starts destroying planets, while still holding back and releases afterwards energy tha expands that universe, we interpret is as a powerlevel over 9.000.


So, here's the thing about Alan...

Judging by what you've just written about Alan Scott you knew that Void wouldn't be able to defeat him. Because Void is not powerful enough? No, but simply because he lacks the specific powerset you need to defeat a bloodlusted Alan Scott. Why would you create a spite-match on purpose? Who besides a powerful reality warper (reality warper, not matter manipulator) could defeat Alan Scott, who can't even be touched?

#27 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:

We interpret art all the time. When someone is on Earth on one panel and then on Pluto on the third panel we interpret that as a speed far, far beyond the speed of light. If someone is in a Microverse and starts destroying planets, while still holding back and releases afterwards energy tha expands that universe, we interpret is as a powerlevel over 9.000.

That's true, and people often do infer speed feats from stuff like that. It just depends on whether the author gave any clues about how quickly the panels are changing and stuff like that.

But as far as the scans you gave... I didnt see anything to suggest to me that they were destroying anything along the lines of planets. I just saw two guys fighting. <shrugs>

@chibio said:

Judging by what you've just written about Alan Scott you knew that Void wouldn't be able to defeat him. Because Void is not powerful enough? No, but simply because he lacks the specific powerset you need to defeat a bloodlusted Alan Scott. Why would you create a spite-match on purpose? Who besides a powerful reality warper (reality warper, not matter manipulator) could defeat Alan Scott, who can't even be touched?

Someone asked this up in the thread. Go up and look at my reply.

#28 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Edited by MonsterStomp (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

I was the curious one about this match up. Pick on me if you will.

I love anyone that would give Void a good stomping but it's not like it isn't debatable. Round one would be a close match to be honest. I just thought more Void fans would be debating since... You know.. No one was saying sh*t in the Flash vs Void thread.

#30 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: i didn't know void fans existed, and i was in the flash vs void fight and voted for void because it's an obvious stomp.

now void vs flash in a footrace, flash slaughter stomps.

but here, round two seems impossible for any being to win, unless you're a tree.

#31 Edited by MonsterStomp (16112 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@monsterstomp: i didn't know void fans existed, and i was in the flash vs void fight and voted for void because it's an obvious stomp.

now void vs flash in a footrace, flash slaughter stomps.

but here, round two seems impossible for any being to win, unless you're a tree.

Yeah an obvious stomp where the feats were vaporized from existence. I'm not a big no-it-all on Void by any means, but 80% of the Void threads don't have scans of anything. They just say "He can't be put down" or "Void stomps" and the thread dies off 3 days later.

#32 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio


That's true, and people often do infer speed feats from stuff like that. It just depends on whether the author gave any clues about how quickly the panels are changing and stuff like that.

But as far as the scans you gave... I didnt see anything to suggest to me that they were destroying anything along the lines of planets. I just saw two guys fighting. <shrugs>

During the Molecule Man story arc you could also see two guys fighting, but it doesn't change the fact, that Sentry defeated a guy who affected galaxies and timelines during his fight. During the previously mentioned fight you could see two guys fighting, but it doesn't change the fact that Sentry not only destroyed the planets around them during the fight, but also emitted energy on a much, much, much larger scale, when they were the only ones left in that Microverse. Show some creativity.

#33 Posted by Mercury_Xz (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott rd 2 wins.

I'm not sure about Rd. 1

#34 Edited by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:

During the Molecule Man story arc you could also see two guys fighting, but it doesn't change the fact, that Sentry defeated a guy who affected galaxies and timelines during his fight. During the previously mentioned fight you could see two guys fighting, but it doesn't change the fact that Sentry not only destroyed the planets around them during the fight, but also emitted energy on a much, much, much larger scale, when they were the only ones left in that Microverse. Show some creativity.

Sorry, I didnt see them destroy any planets. It looks like they destroyed some of the atoms in the Microverse. Didnt seem that impressive since Captain America had little problem surviving it. Maybe it's impressive in the Microverse... I guess. I really have no idea. I certainly have no idea how that translates to the real universe. Being creative is one thing, making unfounded assumptions is another.

And, I still dont see how those scans show that Sentry has the power of "One million exploding suns". As far as I can tell that's still just hyperbole.

#35 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: captain america didn't "survive it" he was teleported safely away back into our universe before things got too heavy

#36 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@willpayton: captain america didn't "survive it" he was teleported safely away back into our universe before things got too heavy

Well... it looks like he survived the explosion and then was teleported away because some rocks were about to fall on him...

#37 Posted by beatboks1 (7000 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes: Wood has not been a weakness of Alan's since he absorbed the starheart. why after all these years do I still have to explain that.

#38 Posted by thanosii (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: void took on the four best magicians in marvel ... Dr Strange and Loki at the same time, Morgan and Doom. So clearly his power set can defeat magical beings. Then add his matter manipulation on par with Owen then I think this is a stomp in round 1 and narrow win in round 2

#39 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry, I didnt see them destroy any planets. It looks like they destroyed some of the atoms in the Microverse. Didnt seem that impressive since Captain America had little problem surviving it. Maybe it's impressive in the Microverse... I guess. I really have no idea. I certainly have no idea how that translates to the real universe. Being creative is one thing, making unfounded assumptions is another.

And, I still dont see how those scans show that Sentry has the power of "One million exploding suns". As far as I can tell that's still just hyperbole.

Are you mocking me right now? I already told you that a Microverse is a subatomic universe, where atoms are planets. Them destroying atoms makes them destroying planets. They were shredding planets, while still holding back. Captain America was down below. Then when he got teleported, they clashed and you saw Sentry's golden energy expanding. The same energy that was destroying planets before. And the same energy left the Microverse.

But whatever, believe what you want, I don't actually care.

#40 Posted by demonyusuke713 (336 posts) - - Show Bio

y do you always low ball sentry/void look sentry has the power of a million exploding suns he cab alter reality yea there isn't much strength feats showing it off that much but one feat that put all others to shame is the fact he hnad enough power to kill all of the asgardians and their skyfather at the time (thor) yea alan is immensely powerful but going up against some one who is uber powerful eve whilst holding back and i mean holding alot back just might be more powerful plus this is void no bars held all out persona of sentry meaning he's not gonna just beat alan but break his spirit you got to remember alaln is a hero adc hero killing isn't in his nature nor any dc hero but lets say he does kill void its the victory wont last long cuz sentry/void cant die the o[ gave us sentry full power vs alan full power knowing the outcome is most likely void

#41 Edited by thanosii (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio: @beatboks1: I think willpayton has his mind made up because everyone but him sees Void winning saying void can't hurt Scott is false since Morgan le Fay is a magical being existing mostly in astral planes but void beat her. He beat SS Strange and Norn stone amped Loki as well as Dr doom. So clearly he can affect magic if IIRC HE HAS...

Star hearts defeated JSA, JLA and few others, good but it pales when considering destroying suns and entire marvel earth and Asgard together

#42 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by beatboks1 (7000 posts) - - Show Bio

@demonyusuke713: Ahhh did you read the OP. the thread is bloodlusted Alan not Alan the hero. Whe Alan is bloodlusted the starheart entity takes him over. That is an entity that is All the evil magic in the universe . Not only will it kill it's sole intent and purpose is the destruction of everything that is so it can be everything. ItHas the power to do it too. When Eclipso stole the starheart from Alan briefly he killed the spectre with it's power and cut the presence off from his.

The thing about Alan not being able to be harmed is because he doesn't have. A physical form. His whole existence is from his own will power and self image. He is living magical energy that manifests as he wills himself to. The only weaknesses he has are those he mentally or subconsciously allows himself to Have. If the starheart is in control ( which bloodlusted it will be ) that will be none

This is the power of the starheart. It allowed Eclipso to steal Spectre's own power from him and use it to destroy him and the use it to cut the link between worshiping souls and the presence.

Note the feat of importance is stealing Spectre's power as the other parts of the feat are with the combination of the starheart AND Spectre's power.

One could just as easily argued that the Starheart entity could steal Void's power and use it to destroy him.

Now remember I'm not saying who wins because i don't believe i can without some bias ( I doubt there is anyone who's a bigger fans Of Alan Scot than me). But I don't see either having a major power advantage here.

#44 Posted by Killemall (18283 posts) - - Show Bio

Problem is that the feats that Void has are in large part do to his molecular manipulation abilities... correct?

Not really, Void himself has taken on assemblage of Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-men and Defenders together with them, and all anyone could do against the Void was hope Sentry comes back, and like you can see no molecule man, just good old shape shifting and him being just way too powerful from the assemblage of the team to deal with.

Not to mention something people often tend to overlook in case of Void, he has never once been defeated apart from one questionable instance against Thor, where Bob wanted to die. Given despite all his uber powers Void is but a dark persona of Bob himself the feat becomes questionable.

Apart from that we have few Void vs Sentry, but its pretty much well Bob fight Bob.

Not saying Starheart couldnt do that, or this feat somehow shows Void superior to Starheart, because honestly it doesnt because Starheart has just as good if not better feat(i will get to that part later, because one particular feat does, and while i have my problems with the feat, once you take it as genuine, Void should be a whole level beyond Starheart)

It probably would give the fact that it did on Molecule Man, whose power is extradimensional energy of the cosmic cube, which in itself isnt matter nor energy.

Alan has the advantage that he can use his magic-based abilities, which include time manipulation, mental control, and matter and energy manipulation to take out Sentry.


Honestly Molecule Man can do all that, heck a weaker cosmic cube being Kubik can do all that and much more, including being able to hold entire universe in his hands and nearly crush it, or MM vs Beyonder being able to affect reality on trans-multiversal scale, being able to turn entire universe upside down as a side effect of their fight, being able to turn an entire 2 dimensional universe into a 3D plane.

So that should in itself give Alan any sort of advantage.

And while i would normally put Void beating Sentry as , well at the very least, hard to swallow feat, we have this statement immediately after the fight is over.

For all Molecule Man power and his likely superiority to someone like Starheart, there are beings more powerful than him, one of whom being HOM Wanda the lady who tore apart the multiverse, and here Void is actually being alluded to being more powerful than Scarlet Witch.

Quite the contrary, give the scope of his feat against Molecule Man, if anything Void should have a genuine advantage given he just defeated someone who can do pretty much everything Starheart has ever done, and do so in a much grander scale, beyond universal manipulation.

Heck marvel has outright said Kubik is more powerful than Odin and he does have better feats, we are here talking about 2 being who are likely whole level beyond Kubik (MM pretty clearly is superior to Kubik, given Kubik had to beg him to stop and admitted MM is far, far more powerful then he is, and Sentry feat while questionable shows him more powerful than MM)

#45 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: i agree mostly with what you said

so does this mean you would give The Sentry/Void the win for round 1 and round 2?

#46 Edited by Killemall (18283 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by WillPayton (9181 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibio said:

@willpayton said:

Sorry, I didnt see them destroy any planets. It looks like they destroyed some of the atoms in the Microverse. Didnt seem that impressive since Captain America had little problem surviving it. Maybe it's impressive in the Microverse... I guess. I really have no idea. I certainly have no idea how that translates to the real universe. Being creative is one thing, making unfounded assumptions is another.

And, I still dont see how those scans show that Sentry has the power of "One million exploding suns". As far as I can tell that's still just hyperbole.

Are you mocking me right now? I already told you that a Microverse is a subatomic universe, where atoms are planets. Them destroying atoms makes them destroying planets. They were shredding planets, while still holding back. Captain America was down below. Then when he got teleported, they clashed and you saw Sentry's golden energy expanding. The same energy that was destroying planets before. And the same energy left the Microverse.

But whatever, believe what you want, I don't actually care.

No. Destroying some atoms in the Microverse is not the same as destroying planets in the real universe. If you cant understand that then there's no point in arguing. You're just making assumptions and extrapolations based on interpreting artwork. I'd like some more concrete feats.

@thanosii said:

@chibio: @beatboks1: I think willpayton has his mind made up...

Kind of insulting, especially since I already changed my mind about the winner of Round 1. I was initially giving it to Alan by a slight margin, but changed my mind to give it to Void. If I'm not changing my mind about Round 2 it's because I havent seen any arguments that convince me. The Starheart is a universal-level entity with cannot be harmed by either physical attack or matter/energy manipulation. It is at least at around skyfather level, which Void is not. Actually, considering what Eclipso could do when he got the Starheart power, I'd put it much higher than skyfather.

Also, I'm not the only one who thinks bloodlusted Alan would win. I'm sure beatboks1 would agree with this, but he wants to abstain because of personal bias... which I respect. But, he's the one who knows most about Starheart.

Void beating up on Thor and all that is impressive, but not at the level of power of the Starheart.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18283 posts) - - Show Bio

Starheart has been harmed, even defeated when Jade managed to tap into the same power. Given there is uncertainity from where Void draws his powers from and that bio and few panels in the comics seem to say Sentry does have the ability to absorb energy from everywhere, a case can be made why Void should be able to hurt and beat Starheart.

The fight with Molecule Man seem to say otherwise. And god know i have called that feat PIS so many times, but the more i try arguing against it (with Czarny_Samuels666 and Chibio in prominence) it seem Molecule Man was intended to be in the same power level.

The issue has molecule man say i can do anything , <-- very underwhelming proof.

He had his own version of Beyonder, Mephisto, Elder God Set, Enchantres and Zarathos

After having beaten Molecule Man Void/ Sentry is being compared with HOM Wanda, in fact alluded to perhaps even being more powerful.

And given Void himself hasnt actually ever been defeated, with a huge questionable plot involved, its hard to downplay that.

There is also few mention of Sentry being a "God" and not just a hero, from Void and later Norman Osborne, while underwhelming it does tend to support the feat was likely genuine.

And Molecule Man is at the very least, a entire weight class beyond Skyfathers, a being who just lost to Sentry.

#49 Posted by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes: Yes.

I'll go with this, though the second matchup would be amazing on panel and quite possibly a stalemate

#50 Edited by spiderbuck (2449 posts) - - Show Bio
double post