#1 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by Mr. Exfed (1127 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan

#3 Posted by sevennames27 (1583 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan would win because he has more power and is smarter.

#4 Posted by alanscott99 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

alan kills. He is one of the most powerful people in the DCU
#5 Posted by King Saturn (224168 posts) - - Show Bio
Green Lantern Alan Scott for the win. Superman could probably test him slightly... but Alan is too powerful for Clark overall. 
#6 Posted by NIGHTS_OF_THUNDER_N_LIGHTNING (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman. 
 
If he can find a way to remove his ring. then Alan is powerless.

#7 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@NIGHTS_OF_THUNDER_N_LIGHTNING said:
Superman.  If he can find a way to remove his ring. then Alan is powerless.
If it were Alan pre about 1982 when he had a ring yes.
Since the sentinel upgrade, Alan is living starheart energy. He doesn't need a ring, lantern or anything else. He is the magical energy.
So sorry he's not powerless anytime soon. If you remove his power he no longer exists. Alan's physical form is a manifestation of his own will.
#8 Posted by Jodema (462 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:


                    @NIGHTS_OF_THUNDER_N_LIGHTNING said:


                    Superman.  If he can find a way to remove his ring. then Alan is powerless.

                   

               
If it were Alan pre about 1982 when he had a ring yes. Since the sentinel upgrade, Alan is living starheart energy. He doesn't need a ring, lantern or anything else. He is the magical energy. So sorry he's not powerless anytime soon. If you remove his power he no longer exists. Alan's physical form is a manifestation of his own will.

                   

               

So did not know that... Wow.
#9 Posted by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan is the one Green Lantern I would feel safest betting on to beat Superman for a good majority....

#10 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@NIGHTS_OF_THUNDER_N_LIGHTNING said:
Superman.  If he can find a way to remove his ring. then Alan is powerless.
If it were Alan pre about 1982 when he had a ring yes. Since the sentinel upgrade, Alan is living starheart energy. He doesn't need a ring, lantern or anything else. He is the magical energy. So sorry he's not powerless anytime soon. If you remove his power he no longer exists. Alan's physical form is a manifestation of his own will.
Except that is not completely true. Alan is the "sentinel of the star heart" but does not have complete control over it and its powers, it can still be removed from him. 
 
In a recent JLA issue Eclipso was able to take over the mind of Alan's daughter Jade, through her he was able to remove Alan's link to the star heart and gain complete control over the star heart and its full power. Eclipso used this power combined with his own and other power he had acquired to help him Kill the Spectre.
#11 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment said:
@beatboks1 said:
@NIGHTS_OF_THUNDER_N_LIGHTNING said:
Superman.  If he can find a way to remove his ring. then Alan is powerless.
If it were Alan pre about 1982 when he had a ring yes. Since the sentinel upgrade, Alan is living starheart energy. He doesn't need a ring, lantern or anything else. He is the magical energy. So sorry he's not powerless anytime soon. If you remove his power he no longer exists. Alan's physical form is a manifestation of his own will.
Except that is not completely true. Alan is the "sentinel of the star heart" but does not have complete control over it and its powers, it can still be removed from him. 
 
In a recent JLA issue Eclipso was able to take over the mind of Alan's daughter Jade, through her he was able to remove Alan's link to the star heart and gain complete control over the star heart and its full power. Eclipso used this power combined with his own and other power he had acquired to help him Kill the Spectre.
Where did I state that he had complete control over the starheart. Clearly that would be wrong as when he pushes himself the Starheart can control him (recent JLA/JSA cross over). I said he doesn't have a ring to remove. That he is (and his ring is) a manifestation of his own will in starheart energy. When Eclipso did this the starheart energy created Alan a frail old body. I don't see how Superman who has no access to mystical ability will be able to sever the link to the starheart. It doesn't change my argument at all because he still doesn't have a physical ring to be removed.
#12 Posted by Thepowercosmic (940 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
Green Lantern Alan Scott for the win. Superman could probably test him slightly... but Alan is too powerful for Clark overall. 
#13 Posted by Superskrull86 (1831 posts) - - Show Bio

I might have to say Superman, but Alan is powerful, tough...
#14 Posted by supermandefender (2041 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
Green Lantern Alan Scott for the win. Superman could probably test him slightly... but Alan is too powerful for Clark overall. 
Why do you think so? What can Alan Scott do about Clarks speed and strength? On top of that what can Alan Scot do to get threw his invulnerability and what stops clark from simplly over dosing with yellow sunlight and just over power the guy?
#15 Edited by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@supermandefender said:

@King Saturn said:

Green Lantern Alan Scott for the win. Superman could probably test him slightly... but Alan is too powerful for Clark overall. 
Why do you think so? What can Alan Scott do about Clarks speed and strength? On top of that what can Alan Scot do to get threw his invulnerability and what stops clark from simplly over dosing with yellow sunlight and just over power the guy?
Do you know anything about Alan.
what is Clark going to do to Alan. If Alan wills it he can have all of Supe's powers . He did that even when he was just a GL with a ring that needed charging and had a weakness. Now that he doesn't need a ring or recharging or have a weakness, and is just living mystical energy he can do much more. Alan can simply be in a form that Supe's can't touch. When Alan decided he wanted his eye back after it was lost it simply regrew. If he thinks of himself as young he is, if he thinks of himself as super strong etc then he's that too. He's fought matched and beaten Mordru. Mordru actually came to the table to deal with Alan when Alan demanded it rather than face the power of the starheart. Mordru transported the rest of the JSA into their own little hell holes so he could focus on Alan while fresh (after boosting his power from Dr fate) and still lost. That's classic Dr Fate level power, a being even Spectre couldn't kill in DOV. He's fought the entirety of hell and brought his wife's soul back to the land of the living. If Clark pushes Alan too far and he eases his control over the starheart and it takes control Supe's would be fighting a being who could control Dr Fate and Obsidian while fighting the combined power of the JLA, JSA, JSA All Stars, Kyle Raynor, Jade, and several other heroes all while manipulating the earths weather patterns to make disaster level events world wide. If Superman was lucky enough to harm Alan (according to Mr Terrific) Alan's energy could destroy the solar system if Alan looses containment. yeah this is a rally fair fight. Alan has defeated  Classic Fate's  enemies more often than Classic Fate did.
#16 Posted by daak1212 (7901 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan because I said so...Also because he wins.

#17 Posted by departed402 (549 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan, handily.
#18 Posted by termiteone4ever (7330 posts) - - Show Bio

I may have to go with alan he has the capabilities too 

#19 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1
 
Your point however does stand, Superman is not possessing Jade/ Allan anytime soon. I just want to clear a few things up.

Where did I state that he had complete control over the starheart. Clearly that would be wrong as when he pushes himself the Starheart can control him (recent JLA/JSA cross over). I said he doesn't have a ring to remove. That he is (and his ring is) a manifestation of his own will in starheart energy.

Fair enough, my apologies. I misunderstood what you were trying to get across when you said "Alan is living starheart energy. He doesn't need a ring, lantern or anything else. He is the magical energy." 
 
 

When Eclipso did this the starheart energy created Alan a frail old body. I don't see how Superman who has no access to mystical ability will be able to sever the link to the starheart. It doesn't change my argument at all because he still doesn't have a physical ring to be removed.

He was a frail old man long before Eclipso arrived and attacked the Emerald City. His was in this state because he was using the starheart to maintain the emerald city and keep all of its magical occupants/creatures safe. J quick picked up Allen's frail old body and used her superspeed to get him to safety while Jade took on his role. She and the other magical inhabitants of the emerald city (including JLA members) tried to fight Eclipso, needless to say they lost. Eclipso possessed Jade along with most of the characters fighting him (with the execption of a few JLA members). He gained control of the starheart by possessing Jade. 
 
I'm not sure if you have read the ending of that story arc yet but if not I'll let you know what happened, needless to say it was not great at all. 
 
A few interesting notes form that story:
 
Blue Lanterns get empowered when that around Star-man, more so than when they are near GL's.
 
Earth is the focal point of all energy in the Universe, both cosmic and Magic. it is where "GOD" gives the Universe his energy for creation and also where he receives energy back from his creations. That also explained why people like the Phantom stranger stay on Earth when he can go and do whatever he pleases but instead decides to stay on Earth - This was quoted text
 
One more interesting part, at the end Allen got his power back, between Allen, Star-man, Saint Walker (Blue lantern) and Supergirl they were able to put the moon back together.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Back to the battle,
 
For the record, Superman wins this. He is the Calvary that Allen and people like him call in when they are getting a beatdown as shown in COIE, Countdown, FC and many others comics.  I'll go into a more detailed reason when I have the time.
#20 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@CapitolPunishment
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. Yes Superman has always been teh plot device that pulls in the win, but generally forum battles exclude such. Based on nothing but potential I fail to see how Superman's physical might is going to defeat someone whose power is as abstract as Alan's is. In the Magog ark of JSA (just before Johns left) E-22/ Kingdom come Superman was not faring well against Magog and Alan did better. Remember than version of Superman is stronger etc than New Earth (though lower stamina if I recall basically old E-2 levels). In the SA Hal had defeated Superman and several Kryptonian level power beings. Alan in the modern age has shown greater power than SA Hal ( I know I hate using ABC logic too, but it does point to the greater potential). Also I highly doubt that Supe's could defeat beings like Mordru (who's defeated Dr Fate and matched Spectre), that Alan has defeated.
 
As to him being old the accepted stance since the starheart upgrade has been that Alan is the starheart energy, and that his mental image of himself determines what he is. That's why he can look a young man or an old one in the same title/issue. If he's tired or feels old that's how he outwardly portrays himself. It's also been used to explain the 4 times he's still shown weakness to wood post the upgrade (when there are countless more where he hasn't). The explanation has been given that because tired or he believes it he has the weakness again. It's a lame excuse if you ask me to cover for poor writers who can't research characters properly and aren't up to date. 
 
I will say that if Alan has the limitations seemingly posed on him by Guggenheim at the end of the JSA run he would loose. In that Alan now has to retain a certain level of will to contain or control the starheart energy (shown in JLA/JSA crossover to only be contained by his formidable will). Asa result he can't even spare teh energy to heal his broken back (which is  SO much crap based on decades of showings). I mean when he lost his eye he wore a patch because he felt it "meant something, when he no longer felt so it just grew back because he willed it. Just like he willed himself healed when his chest was pierced by a wooden stake in a moment of doubt. His will prevented the starheart from being released from his form and than simply remade him him.
#21 Posted by supermandefender (2041 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@supermandefender said:

@King Saturn said:

Green Lantern Alan Scott for the win. Superman could probably test him slightly... but Alan is too powerful for Clark overall. 
Why do you think so? What can Alan Scott do about Clarks speed and strength? On top of that what can Alan Scot do to get threw his invulnerability and what stops clark from simplly over dosing with yellow sunlight and just over power the guy?
Do you know anything about Alan. what is Clark going to do to Alan. If Alan wills it he can have all of Supe's powers . He did that even when he was just a GL with a ring that needed charging and had a weakness. Now that he doesn't need a ring or recharging or have a weakness, and is just living mystical energy he can do much more. Alan can simply be in a form that Supe's can't touch. When Alan decided he wanted his eye back after it was lost it simply regrew. If he thinks of himself as young he is, if he thinks of himself as super strong etc then he's that too. He's fought matched and beaten Mordru. Mordru actually came to the table to deal with Alan when Alan demanded it rather than face the power of the starheart. Mordru transported the rest of the JSA into their own little hell holes so he could focus on Alan while fresh (after boosting his power from Dr fate) and still lost. That's classic Dr Fate level power, a being even Spectre couldn't kill in DOV. He's fought the entirety of hell and brought his wife's soul back to the land of the living. If Clark pushes Alan too far and he eases his control over the starheart and it takes control Supe's would be fighting a being who could control Dr Fate and Obsidian while fighting the combined power of the JLA, JSA, JSA All Stars, Kyle Raynor, Jade, and several other heroes all while manipulating the earths weather patterns to make disaster level events world wide. If Superman was lucky enough to harm Alan (according to Mr Terrific) Alan's energy could destroy the solar system if Alan looses containment. yeah this is a rally fair fight. Alan has defeated  Classic Fate's  enemies more often than Classic Fate did.
Your talking about Alan Scot absorbing all the power of Starheart. I was under the impression this was a normal Alan Scot Green Lantern vs Superman? In that case Superman should win hands down but if your talking about what Alan Scott did currently and absorbing the StarHeart. If thats the case the OP should state specifically whats going on. 
#22 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@supermandefender: Alan Scot had the sentinel upgrade in 1981/2. since then he has been the starheart. He has not been a normal GL since then. when he re-assumed the mantle of GL he simply thought about it and a ring re-formed on his finger. He has since then never needed the ring never needed to recharge it to a battery. I can show dozens of scans where you will see he releases teh starheart energy directly from his body (in fact often from his eyes or the opposite hand to the one his ring is on. CV battle forum rules state current version unless otherwise stated. Nothing states that this is the normal GL who hasn't existed for almost 3 decades.
#23 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@CapitolPunishment:   We'll have to agree to disagree. Yes Superman has always been teh plot device that pulls in the win, but generally forum battles exclude such. Based on nothing but potential I fail to see how Superman's physical might is going to defeat someone whose power is as abstract as Alan's is. In the Magog ark of JSA (just before Johns left) E-22/ Kingdom come Superman was not faring well against Magog and Alan did better. Remember than version of Superman is stronger etc than New Earth (though lower stamina if I recall basically old E-2 levels). In the SA Hal had defeated Superman and several Kryptonian level power beings. Alan in the modern age has shown greater power than SA Hal ( I know I hate using ABC logic too, but it does point to the greater potential). Also I highly doubt that Supe's could defeat beings like Mordru (who's defeated Dr Fate and matched Spectre), that Alan has defeated.  As to him being old the accepted stance since the starheart upgrade has been that Alan is the starheart energy, and that his mental image of himself determines what he is. That's why he can look a young man or an old one in the same title/issue. If he's tired or feels old that's how he outwardly portrays himself. It's also been used to explain the 4 times he's still shown weakness to wood post the upgrade (when there are countless more where he hasn't). The explanation has been given that because tired or he believes it he has the weakness again. It's a lame excuse if you ask me to cover for poor writers who can't research characters properly and aren't up to date.   I will say that if Alan has the limitations seemingly posed on him by Guggenheim at the end of the JSA run he would loose. In that Alan now has to retain a certain level of will to contain or control the starheart energy (shown in JLA/JSA crossover to only be contained by his formidable will). Asa result he can't even spare teh energy to heal his broken back (which is  SO much crap based on decades of showings). I mean when he lost his eye he wore a patch because he felt it "meant something, when he no longer felt so it just grew back because he willed it. Just like he willed himself healed when his chest was pierced by a wooden stake in a moment of doubt. His will prevented the starheart from being released from his form and than simply remade him him.
What do you mean by that? (Bolded part).
#24 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan wins.

#25 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: E-22 (kingdom come ) Superman was at the same levels as pre COIE E-2 Superman. That version of Superman had absorbed yellow sun energy for 20 more years than SA E-1 Superman. He was stronger etc, but because he was older he had lower stamina levels. It was a late retcon prior to COIE that made E-2 Supes more like his E-1 counterpart. It was also  reshown in infinite crisis.
#26 Posted by supermandefender (2041 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@supermandefender: Alan Scot had the sentinel upgrade in 1981/2. since then he has been the starheart. He has not been a normal GL since then. when he re-assumed the mantle of GL he simply thought about it and a ring re-formed on his finger. He has since then never needed the ring never needed to recharge it to a battery. I can show dozens of scans where you will see he releases teh starheart energy directly from his body (in fact often from his eyes or the opposite hand to the one his ring is on. CV battle forum rules state current version unless otherwise stated. Nothing states that this is the normal GL who hasn't existed for almost 3 decades.
What your talking about is not something he does in every battle tho...Superman can sun dip every battle but from what im getting in battle forums is that its where is current power is without increases. Like I said the OP should state whats going on.  
 
Im not so much on the upkeep with Alan Scott but isnt he suppose to returning to earth 2 soon?
#27 Posted by GLforHIRE (453 posts) - - Show Bio

didnt alan just get paralyzed but a guy superman strength?... and is he still vulnerable to wood because then superman armed with a box of toothpics stomps him lol
#28 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@supermandefender said:
@beatboks1 said:
@supermandefender: Alan Scot had the sentinel upgrade in 1981/2. since then he has been the starheart. He has not been a normal GL since then. when he re-assumed the mantle of GL he simply thought about it and a ring re-formed on his finger. He has since then never needed the ring never needed to recharge it to a battery. I can show dozens of scans where you will see he releases teh starheart energy directly from his body (in fact often from his eyes or the opposite hand to the one his ring is on. CV battle forum rules state current version unless otherwise stated. Nothing states that this is the normal GL who hasn't existed for almost 3 decades.
What your talking about is not something he does in every battle tho...Superman can sun dip every battle but from what im getting in battle forums is that its where is current power is without increases. Like I said the OP should state whats going on.   Im not so much on the upkeep with Alan Scott but isnt he suppose to returning to earth 2 soon?
No what I'm talking about is his standard power level. I'm not referring to the levels of the Last JLA/JSA crossover where he was powered up. Just the levels of the last couple of decades where he operates at much higher levels. The link I put on his name in my first reply to you takes you to a respect thread ofmine that shows many of his feats from this period. As I said he's fought Mordru several times, he's been to hell and fought all of hell to get his wife back, when facing his son Obsidian in days of Darkness he simply used his power to close to his potential. That starheart possessed story of JLA/JSA crossover is simply what can happen if he uses too much will in a battle and doesn't maintain some to contain the starheart. If Supes were to push him that's going to happen and he's going to win.  Only two of the images from that thread are from a powered up Alan. there are some from GA GL when he was just a GL where he showed greater potential than any other GL.
@GLforHIRE said:
didnt alan just get paralyzed but a guy superman strength?... and is he still vulnerable to wood because then superman armed with a box of toothpics stomps him lol
In the ark in JSA written by Guggnehiem he has had his back broken. Which is so much PIS it's ridiculous. For one thing Guggneheim has members of the JSA acting completely contrary to 70 years established character. He had them in a remembered story operating as members of the military in WWII over a year before they were in the military, fighting Nazi forces in an Italian held area at the time. As they were also operating in an area where the Axis held power under DCU established history Alan should have been a mental slave to Hitler courtesy of the spear of destiny. Add all that to the fact that Alan couldn't heal himself from said injury (considering he's grown a new eye at will, had a whole in his chest just reform, etc etc) I take the whole ark with a grain of salt. Guggenheim IMHO is a complete and utter hack. But I've already stated that if Alan were imposed by those limitations he would loose..
 
No he's not still vulnerable to wood (as I've already explained). There have been four instances since the Sentinal upgrade where he's been hurt by wood. All have been corrected after to having happened only because he was tired and due to fatigue believed he had the weakness at the time (lame explanation imo for writers who cant bother to research characters). there have been multiple instances where wood has had no effect in the some time.
#29 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23: E-22 (kingdom come ) Superman was at the same levels as pre COIE E-2 Superman. That version of Superman had absorbed yellow sun energy for 20 more years than SA E-1 Superman. He was stronger etc, but because he was older he had lower stamina levels. It was a late retcon prior to COIE that made E-2 Supes more like his E-1 counterpart. It was also  reshown in infinite crisis.
E2 Superman did not absorb any Yellow Sunlight, he didn't get his powers from The Sun. E2 Kryptonians already had powers on planet Krypton, they didn't rely on it, they got their powers through, they technically got weaker through old age. Stamina doesn't work in Comics, Comic Characters never tire. 
#30 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23: E-22 (kingdom come ) Superman was at the same levels as pre COIE E-2 Superman. That version of Superman had absorbed yellow sun energy for 20 more years than SA E-1 Superman. He was stronger etc, but because he was older he had lower stamina levels. It was a late retcon prior to COIE that made E-2 Supes more like his E-1 counterpart. It was also  reshown in infinite crisis.
E2 Superman did not absorb any Yellow Sunlight, he didn't get his powers from The Sun. E2 Kryptonians already had powers on planet Krypton, they didn't rely on it, they got their powers through, they technically got weaker through old age. Stamina doesn't work in Comics, Comic Characters never tire. 
In Action #1 it was described that way yes. It was also retconed about a dozen times until several years  prior to COIE there was YK involved.
As for E-2 Superman getting weaker as he got older. That just isn't the case. Just as it wasn't for Powergirl who's powers increased just like her cousins.
Superman's power level in action #1 1938 only lift a car, bullet proof but not invulnerable to bursting shell leap not fly faster than speed of sound  
By 1949 (issue 129 Action) he could fly go almost light speed, lift tankers.   
 By Silver and Bronze age he was at the same power level as Silver age E-1 Superman who only in the end won due to greater stamina.   
#31 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23 said:
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23: E-22 (kingdom come ) Superman was at the same levels as pre COIE E-2 Superman. That version of Superman had absorbed yellow sun energy for 20 more years than SA E-1 Superman. He was stronger etc, but because he was older he had lower stamina levels. It was a late retcon prior to COIE that made E-2 Supes more like his E-1 counterpart. It was also  reshown in infinite crisis.
E2 Superman did not absorb any Yellow Sunlight, he didn't get his powers from The Sun. E2 Kryptonians already had powers on planet Krypton, they didn't rely on it, they got their powers through, they technically got weaker through old age. Stamina doesn't work in Comics, Comic Characters never tire. 

In Action #1 it was described that way yes. It was also retconed about a dozen times until several years  prior to COIE there was YK involved.
As for E-2 Superman getting weaker as he got older. That just isn't the case. Just as it wasn't for Powergirl who's powers increased just like her cousins. 


 
I know it isn't always the case, as COIE Kal-L was much stronger than early GA Kal-L, but look at Infinite Crisis Kal-L, he was far weaker than COIE Kal-L. But time didn't pass in the paradise-dimension, but compare 60s Kal-L to Infinite Crisis Kal-L. Infinite Crisis Kal-L was far weaker. And Power-Girl's origins were ret-conned in the Crisis.
Superman's power level in action #1 1938 only lift a car, bullet proof but not invulnerable to bursting shell leap not fly faster than speed of sound  
By 1949 (issue 129 Action) he could fly go almost light speed, lift tankers.    

1. That issue of Superman flying at light-speed isn't Kal-L, look at it, first off his S symbol is not even Kal-L's, and also, it says PERRY WHITE, that's the SA Superman's editor, GA Superman's editor was GEORGE TAYLOR. Or was that a retcon? 
 
2. GA Superman and SA Superman stalemated in Justice League Of America #74. They both tired out but that was the only time they ever tired out.
#32 Posted by OptimusPalm (1803 posts) - - Show Bio

I used to play football with somebody called Alan Scott. The whole team bought him a shot of absynth each on his 36th birthday and when he woke up in the morning he told us that he had crapped the bed.  He'd stand no chance against Superman. 
 
Is this a different Alan Scott??....

#33 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23
 
Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white.
The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity. 
It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
#34 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@CapitolPunishment:   We'll have to agree to disagree. Yes Superman has always been teh plot device that pulls in the win, but generally forum battles exclude such. Based on nothing but potential I fail to see how Superman's physical might is going to defeat someone whose power is as abstract as Alan's is. In the Magog ark of JSA (just before Johns left) E-22/ Kingdom come Superman was not faring well against Magog and Alan did better. Remember than version of Superman is stronger etc than New Earth (though lower stamina if I recall basically old E-2 levels). In the SA Hal had defeated Superman and several Kryptonian level power beings. Alan in the modern age has shown greater power than SA Hal ( I know I hate using ABC logic too, but it does point to the greater potential). Also I highly doubt that Supe's could defeat beings like Mordru (who's defeated Dr Fate and matched Spectre), that Alan has defeated.  As to him being old the accepted stance since the starheart upgrade has been that Alan is the starheart energy, and that his mental image of himself determines what he is. That's why he can look a young man or an old one in the same title/issue. If he's tired or feels old that's how he outwardly portrays himself. It's also been used to explain the 4 times he's still shown weakness to wood post the upgrade (when there are countless more where he hasn't). The explanation has been given that because tired or he believes it he has the weakness again. It's a lame excuse if you ask me to cover for poor writers who can't research characters properly and aren't up to date.   I will say that if Alan has the limitations seemingly posed on him by Guggenheim at the end of the JSA run he would loose. In that Alan now has to retain a certain level of will to contain or control the starheart energy (shown in JLA/JSA crossover to only be contained by his formidable will). Asa result he can't even spare teh energy to heal his broken back (which is  SO much crap based on decades of showings). I mean when he lost his eye he wore a patch because he felt it "meant something, when he no longer felt so it just grew back because he willed it. Just like he willed himself healed when his chest was pierced by a wooden stake in a moment of doubt. His will prevented the starheart from being released from his form and than simply remade him him.
Nice post, when I have a few spare minutes I will explain why Superman has a shot at winning this.
#35 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2014 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins

#36 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23:   Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white. The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity.  It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
I'm saying are you sure that's a GA Comic? I mean I've read Infinite Crisis and stories on Kal-L and I'm sure that Kal-L's boss was George Taylor, head of the Daily Star, so was it a retcon or not? And his S symbol is different to his symbol he wore in major events like Infinite Crisis, COIE, etc.
#37 Edited by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:

@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23:   Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white. The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity.  It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
I'm saying are you sure that's a GA Comic? I mean I've read Infinite Crisis and stories on Kal-L and I'm sure that Kal-L's boss was George Taylor, head of the Daily Star, so was it a retcon or not? And his S symbol is different to his symbol he wore in major events like Infinite Crisis, COIE, etc.
I'm absolutely positive. Perry white first appeared in Superman #7 1940 (and believe me that is the golden age). That was when he succeeded from George Taylor (who was only editor for  6 issues of Superman and  30 of Action) I believe he made a few later appearances in both not as editor. One of which IIRC was Kal-l/Clasrk's wedding to Lois.
 
As for his symbol that changed several times through the GA.  It's changed a few times since 2. By about 46/7 it was very similar to the SA version.
#38 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23 said:

@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23:   Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white. The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity.  It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
I'm saying are you sure that's a GA Comic? I mean I've read Infinite Crisis and stories on Kal-L and I'm sure that Kal-L's boss was George Taylor, head of the Daily Star, so was it a retcon or not? And his S symbol is different to his symbol he wore in major events like Infinite Crisis, COIE, etc.
I'm absolutely positive. Perry white first appeared in Superman #7 1940 (and believe me that is the golden age). That was when he succeeded from George Taylor (who was only editor for  6 issues of Superman and  30 of Action) I believe he made a few later appearances in both not as editor. One of which IIRC was Kal-l/Clasrk's wedding to Lois.  As for his symbol that changed several times through the GA.  It's changed a few times since 2. By about 46/7 it was very similar to the SA version.
Ok, I can see Perry replacing Taylor then. But I remember Kal-L and Lois marrying each other AFTER Kal-L came back from WW2, that's what happened when I read some Comics called Superman: Infinite Crisis, but I'm not sure if their canon or not, it's a story when Kal-L and New-Earth Superman fight each other. I thought that symbol came in 1956, when the SA came. To differ the two Supermen. But he must have changed back.
#39 Posted by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
@beatboks1 said:
@comicdude23 said:

@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23:   Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white. The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity.  It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
I'm saying are you sure that's a GA Comic? I mean I've read Infinite Crisis and stories on Kal-L and I'm sure that Kal-L's boss was George Taylor, head of the Daily Star, so was it a retcon or not? And his S symbol is different to his symbol he wore in major events like Infinite Crisis, COIE, etc.
I'm absolutely positive. Perry white first appeared in Superman #7 1940 (and believe me that is the golden age). That was when he succeeded from George Taylor (who was only editor for  6 issues of Superman and  30 of Action) I believe he made a few later appearances in both not as editor. One of which IIRC was Kal-l/Clasrk's wedding to Lois.  As for his symbol that changed several times through the GA.  It's changed a few times since 2. By about 46/7 it was very similar to the SA version.
Ok, I can see Perry replacing Taylor then. But I remember Kal-L and Lois marrying each other AFTER Kal-L came back from WW2, that's what happened when I read some Comics called Superman: Infinite Crisis, but I'm not sure if their canon or not, it's a story when Kal-L and New-Earth Superman fight each other. I thought that symbol came in 1956, when the SA came. To differ the two Supermen. But he must have changed back.
Yes I said he appeared in a  few  LATER issues (as in after Action 30 and Superman 7) when he was no longer the editor of the "Daily Star" which later changed it's name to the Daily Planet (and in some tellings back again and back again). Post WWII (which Kal-L NEVER came back from because he NEVER went to) which ended in 1945 is LATER than the stated 1940. Sorry if that's not clear. E-2 Supermans Symbol changed several times through GA, and in retconned tellings (to reduce confusion), like All Star Squadron was more like the modern - or slightly varied from it. For example the fight with PG that I added teh scan for was in early issues (#6 I think) of Infinity Inc. That was on E-2 prior to COIE, and the same symbol featured in the 1949 issue. Issue 74 of JLA (also in my scans) was also from 1969 (well untruly before COIE in 1985) when the JLA/JSA cross over had the E-1 and E-2 Superman fight to a standstill.
#40 Edited by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23 said:

@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23 said:

@beatboks1 said:

@comicdude23:   Superman flew at light speed in Action comics from late 1948. That was GA not SA and he still worked at the Daily Star (not Planet) under by this time Perry white. The Silver Age didn't start until 55, though many of the late GA tales were included in the early SA continuity.  It makes no difference what soever since i've been referring to E-22 Superman who in JSA when he met new Earth Supes they said he was more powerful but had less stamina because of his age. That's the superman from Kingdom come.
I'm saying are you sure that's a GA Comic? I mean I've read Infinite Crisis and stories on Kal-L and I'm sure that Kal-L's boss was George Taylor, head of the Daily Star, so was it a retcon or not? And his S symbol is different to his symbol he wore in major events like Infinite Crisis, COIE, etc.
I'm absolutely positive. Perry white first appeared in Superman #7 1940 (and believe me that is the golden age). That was when he succeeded from George Taylor (who was only editor for  6 issues of Superman and  30 of Action) I believe he made a few later appearances in both not as editor. One of which IIRC was Kal-l/Clasrk's wedding to Lois.  As for his symbol that changed several times through the GA.  It's changed a few times since 2. By about 46/7 it was very similar to the SA version.
Ok, I can see Perry replacing Taylor then. But I remember Kal-L and Lois marrying each other AFTER Kal-L came back from WW2, that's what happened when I read some Comics called Superman: Infinite Crisis, but I'm not sure if their canon or not, it's a story when Kal-L and New-Earth Superman fight each other. I thought that symbol came in 1956, when the SA came. To differ the two Supermen. But he must have changed back.
Yes I said he appeared in a  few  LATER issues (as in after Action 30 and Superman 7) when he was no longer the editor of the "Daily Star" which later changed it's name to the Daily Planet (and in some tellings back again and back again). Post WWII (which Kal-L NEVER came back from because he NEVER went to) which ended in 1945 is LATER than the stated 1940. Sorry if that's not clear. E-2 Supermans Symbol changed several times through GA, and in retconned tellings (to reduce confusion), like All Star Squadron was more like the modern - or slightly varied from it. For example the fight with PG that I added teh scan for was in early issues (#6 I think) of Infinity Inc. That was on E-2 prior to COIE, and the same symbol featured in the 1949 issue. Issue 74 of JLA (also in my scans) was also from 1969 (well untruly before COIE in 1985) when the JLA/JSA cross over had the E-1 and E-2 Superman fight to a standstill.
You sure he never went to WW2? If you read a story called Superman: Infinite Crisis, it's shown that Kal-L and New Earth Kal-El are fighting each other, and whenever they punch each other each lives each others lives. And in that story when Kal-El experiences Kal-L's life he goes back to WW2. His symbol must have went back to his original due to E1-Superman to differ the two. I know that the last time we saw Kal-L, around Blackest Knight, Infinite Crisis, is that his symbol was not the version on that 1949 issue. Also, in that 80s JLA/JSA crossover, was that the one with Pre-Crisis Ultraman? Because if so I'm sure it was stated that E1 Superman was stronger. The only time I remember Kal-L KO'ing and beating E1 Superman was in COIE, and that was a sucker punch.
#41 Edited by beatboks1 (7219 posts) - - Show Bio

Due to the fact that the war wasn't simply being won almost all golden age superheroes/ mysterymen fought only on the home front during the actual Golden Age.
The only exceptions that come to mind are Captain America, the Shield, and Americommando / Mr America (that was his name when not at war). 
There were a handfull of issues in early 1942 where some of the members of the JSA joined the forces. With Alan Scot ? Green Lantern for example it was in June 1942 in Green Lantern Quarterly #4. They did this to make the heroes patriotic. They then took them out of the military by having the JSA become a division as it were (of the military) temporarily renamed the Justice Battalion. During this time the Justice Battalion fought saboteurs like the "black Dragon society". 
When Roy Thomas wrote All Star Squadron during the 80's (which featured all the golden age characters including those acquired by DC from other publishers over the years (like Quality ) he went to great lengths to explain as many inconsistencies as he could. One of these was the absence of super heroes / Mystery men from the Allied war effort.  Because (aside from the occasional story like the one where JSA went into Nazi held Europe to help out by delivering food to starving occupied people) they didn't simply end the war (or fight in it), he had Hitler gain possession of the spear of destiny, Tojo the holy Grail. The spear was the spear that pierced Christs side on the cross, and the grail the cup of the last supper. The result of their possession of these artifacts was that if any magic character (or one with a weakness to magic) entered the territory held by their forces they would become mind slaves of these dictators. This is what happened when Superman, Green Lantern/ Alan Scot, and Wonder Woman decided to attack Japan straight after Pearl Harbor. When they did the All Stars ended up fighting three (which turned into 4 when Dr Fate also entered the area) of their most powerful members. 
 
I can assure you when I say my data on GA is pretty well supported my collection includes either in original, TPB or reprints (mostly the latter or Australian reprints of of course) 60+ issues Action (most from 43 to 49, 6 from 38 to 43), 16 Adventure, most All American, comic Cavelcade and Green Lantern (I'm missing about 15 of Alan Scot's GA appearances- unless there's some I'm not aware of which I doubt), 11 Flash and All Flash,  around 90issues of More Fun Comics, 5 issues of Star Spangled and 2 of leading Comics, a dozen or so Sensation and 3 Worlds Finest. ALL Golden Age stories. 
 
The below image for example (which is one of my reprints from 1942) despite the front cover was fought all in Metropolis against 5th columnist spies.
 

#42 Posted by kameron_brown_52 (24 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Alan Scott's ring magical? If so, even if Superman wins this rumble, Alan Scott should be able to put a severe hurtin' on Superman before Alan falls.

#43 Posted by FrozenPhoenix (1722 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's new 52 Alan, the Superman's best chance is to make him fall in love with him.

#44 Edited by WillPayton (9443 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's new 52 Alan, the Superman's best chance is to make him fall in love with him.

That's not new 52 Alan, it's pre-52 Alan Scott.

Isn't Alan Scott's ring magical? If so, even if Superman wins this rumble, Alan Scott should be able to put a severe hurtin' on Superman before Alan falls.

Alan has a ring, but he doesnt need it. It's just a construct. Alan's power is internalized and comes from the fact that he's made of the energy from the Starheart... which is indeed magical energy.

The only way Superman wins this is if Alan Scott doesnt believe he can win. Really, that's the only chance Supes has.

If Alan is fighting to win, even without bloodlust and without the full Starheart power, he wins. Alan's powers include time manipulation, invisibility, intangibility, teleportation, energy constructs, energy blasts, and immortality due to being made of pure magical energy.

#45 Edited by jackbensley777 (653 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman FTW alan scott is a green lantern from the golden age he dies

#46 Posted by WillPayton (9443 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman FTW alan scott is a green lantern from the golden age he dies

Your argument doesnt make any sense. Alan existed during the Golden Age, and so did Superman. I think Alan appeared just 2 years after Superman.

#47 Posted by Lvenger (19854 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan can decimate Superman pretty handily thanks to the Starheart.

#48 Posted by PreCrisisFlea (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-COIE Superman can beat Alan, even with the Star Heart absorbed.

Post-COIE Superman can beat regular Alan but most, though not all, versions of him lose to Star Heart Alan.

But, Post-COIE Superman can sundip, and, sundipped, he takes the fight.

#49 Posted by Cooldes (4097 posts) - - Show Bio

does battle take place on earth? can't supes fly away, get some wood, and win with ease?