@WillPayton: Does Starheart Alan have more and better feats than RKT?
Not too sure about RKT feats. For Alan, copying this from:
@beatboks1
While off planet a Blood lusted Alan Scot controlled the forces of Nature and many heroes to fight all Earths heroes in multiple places at onceAlso from Space he could possess and control two powerful beings to fight on his behalfHe empowered normal human beings to fight for him as wellone of many fights he was having with teams simultaneously - all of which he was present at the fight and fought from somewhere elseDefeats powerful beings like MordruAnother battle with another team (simultaneously) from afarWhen teh team joined (still not near him) he fought them with energy constructs that had their own powersAnother small group fighting yet other constructs elsewhere (also no sing of Alan even present)Kryptionians had no effect on him but make him laughwith a though he's gone - while he battled here he was also on the moon talking to members of the JSAPossess martian telepaths from a distance
Odin couldn't stop TWSAIS - RKT did. Surtur couldn't destroy the barrier with his hammer-army and Twilight Sword for centuries - RKT did it with one blast. People like boosted Loki and weakned Mangog were one-shotted. RKT has at least power two times greater then Odin. Possibly more, since nothing Odin ever had was in his opinion a real threat to TWSAIS. Imagine, You have Odin Foce, Destroyer, Asgard's army and still You're not even try to destroy beings that drain power from apocalypse of Your nation. This easily show what is the difference between RKT and Odin/Surtur (RKT >>>> Odin + Surtur). And magicians were convinced to be Starheart's heralds.
Its differnet to possess the full power of the Starheart and be possessed fully by the starheart. If he just has the power.. he loses. Thos has been alive a lot longer that Alan and has been aquainted/exposed to cosmic/mystical forces much longer too. Alan wont know how to handle Thors power but Thor would know how to deal with alan.
If Alan is possessed by the starheart it can be a different story. all depends on the experience of the starheart itself. I assume that the starheart has been imprisoned for most of its existence. Starheart might be able to win though
Its differnet to possess the full power of the Starheart and be possessed fully by the starheart. If he just has the power.. he loses. Thos has been alive a lot longer that Alan and has been aquainted/exposed to cosmic/mystical forces much longer too. Alan wont know how to handle Thors power but Thor would know how to deal with alan.
If Alan is possessed by the starheart it can be a different story. all depends on the experience of the starheart itself. I assume that the starheart has been imprisoned for most of its existence. Starheart might be able to win though
Generally my understanding is that full power means he's fully possessed by the Starheart.
@hyperlight when Alan is bloodlusted he is possessed by the starheart. that is the only time he has the "full power " of it. the starheart is the magic energy that was in the universe at the dawn of time. when Kronus unleashed evil into the Universe the Maltans chose to be the universes protectors ( some controllers some guardians and of course the Zamaroons). the guardians gathered all the magic they could find in the universe and sealed it in the heart of a star. the good magic in that broke away and fell to earth as a meteor 1000's of years ago in china ( it was the metal that was forged into Aladin's lamp and later Alan's Lantern and ring. The starheart is centuries older than Thor and has it's own dimension/ realm. In this state he one shotted half of the powerhouses in DCU. he laughed off the best attacks of Supergir, powergirl, possessed and controlled Dr Fate and several others in seconds. when Eclipso took the power of the Starheart he used it to destroy Spectre ( temporarily). when he was only driven ( believing his team mates had been destroyed by Mordru) and only part of the starheart, he easily defeated Mordru who at the time had taken some of Fate's power( a character who at his peak has soloed the combined JLA, JSA, and LoSH - that's a combined group that included 7 Kryptonian level beings, two GL's and several other powerhouses).
@hyperlight when Alan is bloodlusted he is possessed by the starheart. that is the only time he has the "full power " of it. the starheart is the magic energy that was in the universe at the dawn of time. when Kronus unleashed evil into the Universe the Maltans chose to be the universes protectors ( some controllers some guardians and of course the Zamaroons). the guardians gathered all the magic they could find in the universe and sealed it in the heart of a star. the good magic in that broke away and fell to earth as a meteor 1000's of years ago in china ( it was the metal that was forged into Aladin's lamp and later Alan's Lantern and ring. The starheart is centuries older than Thor and has it's own dimension/ realm. In this state he one shotted half of the powerhouses in DCU. he laughed off the best attacks of Supergir, powergirl, possessed and controlled Dr Fate and several others in seconds. when Eclipso took the power of the Starheart he used it to destroy Spectre ( temporarily). when he was only driven ( believing his team mates had been destroyed by Mordru) and only part of the starheart, he easily defeated Mordru who at the time had taken some of Fate's power( a character who at his peak has soloed the combined JLA, JSA, and LoSH - that's a combined group that included 7 Kryptonian level beings, two GL's and several other powerhouses).
From these feats, one that really matters is fight with Mordru. Can You prove that this version of Mordru was more powerfull than Odin or/and Surtur?
Considering that both fate and Mordru would be near Odin level normally Mordru when taken Fate's power would easily be Odin AND Surtur. Have to say though surprised that that is the "only feat" to discuss. I mean the power of the Starheart killed the Spectre and Mordru is the feat to question?
Considering that both fate and Mordru would be near Odin level normally Mordru when taken Fate's power would easily be Odin AND Surtur. Have to say though surprised that that is the "only feat" to discuss. I mean the power of the Starheart killed the Spectre and Mordru is the feat to question?
Because it wasn't Alan, but Eclipso. And Eclipso by himself is powerfull demon. Question was: Why Mordru should be considered as an Odin-level at all?
Rune King Thor. He didn't have that many feats because he wasnt around long and no one could offer any resistance what so ever. He one shotted everyone/everything he faced including the Ones Who Sit in Shadows - abstracts and elder gods of the Universe. He was infinitely more powerful than Odin because he had more knowledge and wisdom, could see all possible outcomes of every scenario and understood everything. Here is the description when Thor plucks his eyes out and hangs himself. "The magic of the runes and wisdom of the well of Mimir give Thor the power to know the past, to control the present and guide the future. Now, Thor can see through the veil of time. Past the knowing of the Gods.... He sees all things animal and mineral... He sees beyond quantum structure; beyond cosmic architecture. The runes show him the future of all things - of every man and beast - every leaf on every tree. He sees every deed, seen and unseen. Every battle lost and won..." (sorry couldnt scan or paste images from this comp..) Basically he knows everything there is to know about everthing, so what could Alan Scott do to him? Yes Alan is powerful and was able to take on tons of powerful beings with his constructs and so forth (very impressive feats), but RKT knows everything there is to know about Scott and the Starheart - including every possible action he could take against him. Time and space have no meaning to him because he sees, thinks and acts outside of these constraints. There is nothing to suggest RKT can even be beaten by anyone or anything. He was never even close to being injured and he EASILY destroyed a team of Abstracts/Elder Gods. He knew what he wanted to do and nothing fazed him until it was complete and in the end it was RKT who decided he should no longer exist so he went to sleep.
Its differnet to possess the full power of the Starheart and be possessed fully by the starheart. If he just has the power.. he loses. Thos has been alive a lot longer that Alan and has been aquainted/exposed to cosmic/mystical forces much longer too. Alan wont know how to handle Thors power but Thor would know how to deal with alan.
If Alan is possessed by the starheart it can be a different story. all depends on the experience of the starheart itself. I assume that the starheart has been imprisoned for most of its existence. Starheart might be able to win though
Generally my understanding is that full power means he's fully possessed by the Starheart.
Oh okay than that makes for a much more interesting fight.
@beatboks1 said:
@hyperlight when Alan is bloodlusted he is possessed by the starheart. that is the only time he has the "full power " of it. the starheart is the magic energy that was in the universe at the dawn of time. when Kronus unleashed evil into the Universe the Maltans chose to be the universes protectors ( some controllers some guardians and of course the Zamaroons). the guardians gathered all the magic they could find in the universe and sealed it in the heart of a star. the good magic in that broke away and fell to earth as a meteor 1000's of years ago in china ( it was the metal that was forged into Aladin's lamp and later Alan's Lantern and ring. The starheart is centuries older than Thor and has it's own dimension/ realm. In this state he one shotted half of the powerhouses in DCU. he laughed off the best attacks of Supergir, powergirl, possessed and controlled Dr Fate and several others in seconds. when Eclipso took the power of the Starheart he used it to destroy Spectre ( temporarily). when he was only driven ( believing his team mates had been destroyed by Mordru) and only part of the starheart, he easily defeated Mordru who at the time had taken some of Fate's power( a character who at his peak has soloed the combined JLA, JSA, and LoSH - that's a combined group that included 7 Kryptonian level beings, two GL's and several other powerhouses).
Oh i see the starheart is a boss... but i believe the RKT feats surpass his. Hasnt thor made galaxies and stuff.
Im not surprised that the starheart beat those powerhouses. they are physically powerful and the starheart transcends physical might. Thor would have snapped his fingers and turned them all into rabbits or something. but im still on the fence... leaning towards thor though
He's also beaten Time Trapper (who has created a universe).
One shoted the JSA
One shoted the combined JLA, JSA, and LoSH ( the story was pre COIE but has been referenced post so still canon ( when in pre COIE that included Classic Fate). he also sent his astral projection to solo the JLA and JSA from teh 30th Century to the 20th while he fought the LoSH in the 30th in that tale.
One Shoted the demon three
Was about to feast on the Speed force until distracted
Telepathically read/scanned every mind in the universe
Possessed and controlled the populous of several planets ant once
@beatboks1: I think few of the scans here are a little misplaced, while i do not doubt Mordru's power level.
Firstly, Nabu himself has beaten Mordru so him being able to one shot Nabu (well beat Nabu i can understand) is a little outlier to their normal battles. Thunderbolt isnt as power as Mxy, like at all. One a 5th dimensional imp with so many feats, the other's a genie from the same dimension with far less feats and has honestly never looked as powerful. Also Shazam didnt actually hit him with everything he's got, Shazam as well as Mordru knew Spectre was coming to rock of eternity after his encounter, would make less sense to use all your powers on a relatively weaker opponent when someone a lot more powerful is about to enter your domain just to kill you right?
@beatboks1: I think few of the scans here are a little misplaced, while i do not doubt Mordru's power level.
Firstly, Nabu himself has beaten Mordru so him being able to one shot Nabu (well beat Nabu i can understand) is a little outlier to their normal battles. Thunderbolt isnt as power as Mxy, like at all. One a 5th dimensional imp with so many feats, the other's a genie from the same dimension with far less feats and has honestly never looked as powerful. Also Shazam didnt actually hit him with everything he's got, Shazam as well as Mordru knew Spectre was coming to rock of eternity after his encounter, would make less sense to use all your powers on a relatively weaker opponent when someone a lot more powerful is about to enter your domain just to kill you right?
This is starting to get anoying (second post that has disappeared when I post)
1. Nabu has only ever beaten Mordru either with prep or Plot. He should be able to I'll agree but he hasn't.
2. Thunderbolt is most certainly as powerful as Mxy. His normal showings however are limited by the fact that his master is the one in control. None of his masters are as adept as he is. his showings in their own dimension (during the Imp Jenie war) are definitely Mxy level when he has control. Also his classic appearances his power was enough to match overcome Spectre (even Spec couldn't deny Johnny's wishes and was several times surprised by that)
3. At the end of his assault on Mordru Shazam States that he has bareley enough energy to stand. If that's not giving it everything I don't know what is.
This is starting to get anoying (second post that has disappeared when I post)
1. Nabu has only ever beaten Mordru either with prep or Plot. He should be able to I'll agree but he hasn't.
I have seen Nabu beat Mordru before.
JSA 51
2. Thunderbolt is most certainly as powerful as Mxy. His normal showings however are limited by the fact that his master is the one in control. None of his masters are as adept as he is. his showings in their own dimension (during the Imp Jenie war) are definitely Mxy level when he has control. Also his classic appearances his power was enough to match overcome Spectre (even Spec couldn't deny Johnny's wishes and was several times surprised by that)
Based on?
I think i know what instance you are talking about when you say IMP Jenie war, where Johnny Thunder had powers and was taking control of the 5th dimension right? I do not remember him doing anything that puts him at Mxy level anyways.
Nor only doesnt he has as many feat as Mxy does and has poorer record. The Mordru instance you mentioned, the very next issue Mordru gets beaten by Dr. Fate (Hectar Hall), which certainly shows he isnt as powerful as Mxy. Not to mention Joker with 99% of Mxy's power actually made Spectre his puppet, Mxy also beat Spectre during World Funniest and Thunderbolt was beaten by Spectre. Kind of disproves him being just as powerful as Mxy, unless you have some feats to add.
Also could i have the issue number to the bolded part?
3. At the end of his assault on Mordru Shazam States that he has bareley enough energy to stand. If that's not giving it everything I don't know what is.
Not being able to stand is directly contradicted by the fact that he fight Spectre, the very next issue, for quite a long time, and the whole point of Mordru letting Shazam hit him with everything was so that his own castle would be breached for Mordru to escape something he says on the very next scan.
This is starting to get anoying (second post that has disappeared when I post)
1. Nabu has only ever beaten Mordru either with prep or Plot. He should be able to I'll agree but he hasn't.
I have seen Nabu beat Mordru before.
JSA 51
I'm honestly not sure why you put up the scans of JSA 51. Firstly it isn't Nabu but Hector Fate who defeats Mordru. Secondly he doesn't do it alone. he has both Nabu and Shazam's help. He had further help in the lead up to the encounter for a few issues prior by being advised by Kent Nelson ( the late former Classic Dr fate with 50 years experience wielding the power) as well as Erik and Linda Straus, kid eternity and every other soul that resides within the amulet. IIRC he had two or three issues of prep within the amulet before beginning that battle. I was quite serious when I said that Mordru has never been defeated without either prep or plot. I would say that a defeat by a near equal power (baring in mind that unlike Nabu and the other lords of Order and Chaos, all versions of Dr Fate wiled both the power of Order and Chaos as does Mordru. The difference being that they are mortal beings hosting the power where Mordru is an immortal being wielding the power), who had quite a lot of prep, advice by some very experienced beings in the same level of power, and the help of two beings who's power level isn't far off the same, is BOTH plot and prep.
Based on?
I think i know what instance you are talking about when you say IMP Jenie war, where Johnny Thunder had powers and was taking control of the 5th dimension right? I do not remember him doing anything that puts him at Mxy level anyways.
Nor only doesnt he has as many feat as Mxy does and has poorer record. The Mordru instance you mentioned, the very next issue Mordru gets beaten by Dr. Fate (Hectar Hall), which certainly shows he isnt as powerful as Mxy. Not to mention Joker with 99% of Mxy's power actually made Spectre his puppet, Mxy also beat Spectre during World Funniest and Thunderbolt was beaten by Spectre. Kind of disproves him being just as powerful as Mxy, unless you have some feats to add.
Based on at least 50 instances state the same as this
That is from issue 49 of JSA where several pages also show hector in the Amulet universe being taught and prepared by those I mentioned. The power of the thunderbolt is wielded by an idiot. Plain and simple. When it was under the control of Ultra Humanite he made reality exactly what he wanted in every way as much as Mxy. He possessed and controlled all heroes he considered a threat.
I actually wasn't thinking of the Johnny Thunder one, that is just another example. The one I was thinking of Yz controlled every imp in the 5th dimension at the time. It was well before Johnny was given the power. The there was the time that using the power of another J'nnn Jakeem destroyed the entire 5th Dimension, and all the Imps who didn't get out in time.
Thunderbolt rebuilt/ brought it back.
As for the issues of Thunderbolt able to control Spectre, I'll have to pull and go through my old All Star Comics and Flash anthologies.
Not being able to stand is directly contradicted by the fact that he fight Spectre, the very next issue, for quite a long time, and the whole point of Mordru letting Shazam hit him with everything was so that his own castle would be breached for Mordru to escape something he says on the very next scan.
He didn't fight Spectre the very next issue. They were months apart. Spectre had Just been through a long battle against all the magic power on Earth (so was in fact weakened) courtesy of Enchtress funneling all mystics through Captain Marvel. Despite being weakened and fighting Shazam in his place of power (where Shazam could draw on new energy from the RoE which courtesy of his own prep for the battle was at the height of it's power (no longer using some of it to contain the deadly sins etc) and he still won easily. Yeah I don't think Shazam was firing on all cylinders at all. He could have easily expended all his "own" energy and still had the energy of the Rock to use.
Based on at least 50 instances state the same as this
That is from issue 49 of JSA where several pages also show hector in the Amulet universe being taught and prepared by those I mentioned. The power of the thunderbolt is wielded by an idiot. Plain and simple. When it was under the control of Ultra Humanite he made reality exactly what he wanted in every way as much as Mxy. He possessed and controlled all heroes he considered a threat.
I dont see how that contradicts what i am saying, Thunderbolt is not as powerful as Mxy, be it because he is being controlled by an idiot or otherwise. Also given the fact that , this scan is from exact same issue (JSA 50) from which you have posted the scan of Mordru beating Thunderbolt, should actually make my case stronger wouldnt it?
The whole point being neither Mordru, nor Thunderblot are as powerful as Mxy, whatever be the reason, and hence him beating Thunderblot doesnt automatically translates as beating a Mxy level character.
He didn't fight Spectre the very next issue. They were months apart. Spectre had Just been through a long battle against all the magic power on Earth (so was in fact weakened) courtesy of Enchtress funneling all mystics through Captain Marvel. Despite being weakened and fighting Shazam in his place of power (where Shazam could draw on new energy from the RoE which courtesy of his own prep for the battle was at the height of it's power (no longer using some of it to contain the deadly sins etc) and he still won easily. Yeah I don't think Shazam was firing on all cylinders at all. He could have easily expended all his "own" energy and still had the energy of the Rock to use.
That ignoring a lot of what happened. Captain Marvel first fights Spectre on Manhattan (Day of Vengeance 03), where Spectre is defeated. He then fly away with Eclipso, gain back his powers and comes to Rock of Eternity during the issue you have mentioned and the issue that ties the issue we are referring to, to the main Day of Vengence crossover is Day of Vengeance 06).
Lets try to show this.
Right before he starts fighting Mordru
During the fight with Mordru (same page from which the scan you showed)
The very next page after the scan you showed.
You can clearly see Billy Batson there with spectre second panel.
All this continuity , was apt summarized in Day of Vengence 06
So i have no idea where the months apart is coming from??
And Spectre wasnt weakened, he had flown to the sky and regained his powers, although he still managed to beat Shazam in rock of eternity which is awesome, but i do not think that has anything to do with Shazam not firing all cylinders, because Spectre for one is pretty goddam powerful.
Also he actually uses his artifacts from Rock on eternity in his fight with spectre, here he uses his scarab which really injures Spectre
Next page of it doing more damage
The real reason why he was completely unable to beat Spectre was shown the next page
So the point being Shazam in the rock of eternity was powerful enough to hurt spectre, even nearly put him down, destroy his body to horrible limits, but without the spear of Destiny on his grasp he has no way to actually put him down, thats why he lost.
@Killemall: Don't want to commandeer this thread for Mordru / Shazam , or thunderbolt but in the battle between Shazam and Spectre in DoV the only battle Shazam brought was with external power from the rock. If he had any inner power left he would have used it. he started off on the receiving end until this
Shazam only fought with the power of the rock and the artifacts there. It's a fact. At no point anywhere in the battle with Spectre did we see him use his own power, as we saw in the battle with Mordru. So the battle bears up the statement that he had given his everything.
As to the thunderbolt. You made the comment that he hasn't feats to match Mxy. I'm saying his feats are those of a being who doesn't understand the power they wield wielding it (due to the fact that in Yz can only act as his master directs). The power output shown therefore isn't the true measure. His feats when he does act independently or is given a wish that allows him to certainly are on Mxy level. The feat of one shotting the Thunderbolt is important because his level of power should (and historically HASN'T) been able to be harmed. Spectre has been shown unable to harm YZ, so have other more powerful beings than him. It wasn't Shazam that was powerful enough to harm Spectre, the Rock of Eternity was. All teh attacks that did any harm were from the "powerful thing" on the rock. Shazam only benefited from his presence there and his connection to it.
So Yes, being able to cause actual damage to a 5th Dimensional imp is the same as being able to do physical damage to Mxy. The actual power behind the being is the same,as both draw their power from the 5th dimension. Both are bound by the rules of that dimension. Let's extapolate. Using the analogy often used by Einstein and others to explain his and Rosen's bridge theory, they talk about 2 dimensional universes in a 3rd dimension. A piece of paper for example in this analogy is a 2 dimensional universe. A three dimensional being can bed it and reshape that universe because it can move in the third dimension that the 2nd ca't. In doing so we can bend the paper so that the shortest point between both ends is simply a connection of them (making a circle). A being of the 4th dimension ( which our world actually moves in being time, but linearly) would have the ability to move freely within the 4th dimension. Just like a 2nd dimensional being can't understand the 3 dimension of volume our understanding of the idea of free movement in time is beyond our grasp (and so on. Two beings who can move freely in 5 dimensions care likewise only limited by their dimension. be it thought or whatever. Yz can't have any less limitations than Mxy because his dimensional restraints are the same. Just like Mxy time has no meaning for him, space also. his will can freely affect either (reality warp). All of Johnny Thunders classic Golden age stories were like toon force. Complete reality warp, except that he was both Buggs bunny and Elmer. Because he was a dolt he'd say things that had him on the receiving end. His feats throughout were exactly like very prank Mxy ever played on Superman and everyone else.
Kulak who could one shot Spectre, and one shot Classic Dr Fate. Who's mere presence in a neighboring plane of existence could cause the end of worlds, couldn't do physical harm to the Thunderbolt. The thunderbolt could only act as it was directed so it's showings in the battle were not what they could have been for the same plot reason always used. It still however showed the durability to not be harmed by a universe buster. Yet Mordru can harm it. For the same reason that Spectre was so effective in DoV. Both Spec and Mordru can draw power from any source. They can draw power from those they fight, any source. Being able to harm Yz is a high end feat.
@beatboks1: The reason i am going through with Mordru/ Shazam is because thats the feat you are presenting forward to suggest Alan Scott could beat RKT.
Firstly, no Shazam did use his own power to fight spectre, before the scan you mentioned. It was after he found out Spectre was more powerful than what his normal attacks could manage he used rock of eternity, as one would expect him to do.
Also i do not understand where Spectre not being able to harm Thunderblot is coming from? Would you happen to have a issue number?
JSA 74: A part of Day of Vengence story arc, Spectre easily beat Tbolt by trapping him back in his own pen, and thats unbound spectre one who's supposed to be at lowest power level.
So T-blot is completely unable to hurt spectre, while Spectre simply traps t-bolt in the pen, sending him back to the 5th dimension.
In comparision Joker with 99% of Mxy's power totally takes control of Spectre
Also here is what Joker with Mxy power manage to do to spectre
Getting back to topic , RKT was pretty much as expressely as possible been stated to be more powerful than Odin.
He also clearly outperformed Odin in the series in 2 instance:
1. He manage to defeat TWSITS , who were prayed as gods by Odin.
2. He single handedly manage to break down the barrier , that both Surtur and all his army were completely unable to, with but 1 blast.
And Odin himself has feat is pretty much every category better than what Alan Scott showed during JLA/ JSA: The Dark Reign, apart from being able to take control of people, we can share each others feat if you are interested.
That is why me and (@czarny_samael666: ) are arguing RKT would win. I actually agree with him, if you compare feats Odin has feats like being able to tank multiple galaxy busting attack , in his fight with Infinity as well as his fight with Seth, has destroyed planet from afar with but a wave of his hand, Loki with a small portion of Odin powers, obtained by stealing his was capable of creating Duroc out of thin air who was more powerful than Thor, with but a wave of his hand, from Asgard he repaired earth, he created asgard out of nothing with a wave of his hand.
I've actually not said anywhere in this thread who wins. The reason is I don't know RKT and am completely unfamiliar with his feats to be able to give an informed opinion. I have simply tried to put clarification to Alan's power level where there seems to be a lack of it. His two occasions of actually defeating Mordru (and one of stalemating) is a statement to his power. I'm not arguing (and never have) for Alan to win, I don't know. I'm answering a simply question about what being full starheart means. All I have said is that Alan has defeated Mordru when motivated (which honestly he normally would not, but full starheart stands a chance of), and that Mordru is Odin level (which he is).
Honestly (and I just re read the whole ark tonight 3 times) I don't see Shazam doing much at all before drawing on the rock except getting creamed, I mean before the Mordru fight he was charged and ready (glowing with power). after he looked like a feeble old man the whole time. The artwork spoke volumes to me.
Again where have I said that. I said nothing has harmed him. Nothing has caused him "pain" Kulak who one shotted classic Spectre and Classic Fate (both well above modern), could not cause Thunderbolt to feel pain. trapping him in his pen is hardly harming him as it's a plot device that contains him (like a Genie's bottle). Antone saying the right words with his pen in hand can do that. But even a universe buster couldn't cause him pain and yet Mordru could. His power is the same level as Mxy because reality in every way bends to his whim. When in GA and SA tales he was instructed to do so he controlled Spectre also with the sole exception of the time Spectre was controlled by the ring of life (which always has power over Spec). That was spectre when his power meant something. Most of those tails are still cannon because they have been referenced. Mordu being able to cause pain to a being that even those more powerful than classic Spectre (as in COIE level spec) could not is a statement to his power level, I don't see how it's not.
Mordru also destroyed planets from another time with only an astral projection, defeated galactic powers from afar and matched Time trapper who created his own universe. As I said I don't see how he isn't Odin level. Hell Thunderbolt survived the destruction of the 5th dimension and brought it back and he was hared by Mordru (physically harmed, streamed in pain)
o_O i am lost, why would you post King Thor beating Captain America and melting his shield in a thread about RKT against someone much much much more powerful than Captain America, so again "O_o"
@beatboks1: Apologies i misunderstood what you were saying. Mordru to me isnt on the same level as Odin, but we can agree to disagree, as long as we are talking Post Crisis. Also why do you keep bringing Silver Age and Golden Age feats o_O, or am i just reading your arguments wrong?
@beatboks1: Apologies i misunderstood what you were saying. Mordru to me isnt on the same level as Odin, but we can agree to disagree, as long as we are talking Post Crisis. Also why do you keep bringing Silver Age and Golden Age feats o_O, or am i just reading your arguments wrong?
Cool.
The reason for bringing SA and GAfeats is that for JSA characters they are still cannon. They are cannon because they are referred to or referenced. For example in the JSA stories we've both put scans from there is one scan of Hector seeing Mordru's future. In that we see an exact representation of a battle vs the LoSH which was the tale in which he soloed the combined JLA, JSA and LoSH. Clearly that makes it still cannon. Yes some of the characters he faced like Superman, Mon-el, etc are less powerful now but the feat is still pertinent. Like wise we have had much of JSA history referenced over the years, similarly Spectre would therefore be at his now lower levels but still relevant.
Alan wins this because the Starheart has complete control of magic. Rune King Thor will have to obey his thrall. He was controlling elementals, magicians and gods like nothing!
..vs..
Log in to comment