Alan Scott vs Cyborg Superman vs Silver Surfer

Alan Scott

vs

Cyborg Superman

vs

Silver Surfer

Rules:

• Pre-new 52 versions.
• Alan cannot use full starheart.
• Hank has no rings.
• Post-sentinal upgrade Alan.
• No BFR.
• Win by Death/KO/incap
• Morals off.

Who wins?

@killemall@thetruebarryallen@beatboks1@cosmicallyaware1

I'll debate for Cyborg Superman because it's fun - he's gone toe to toe in a canon crossover with Surfer, but I honestly don't know the full potential of Alan Scott.

I know Alan is super rad though.

Surfer pancakestomps!

But seriously leaning towards Alan or Hank

Alan in a good fight.

^

@thetruebarryallen: Silver Surfer vs Cyborg Superman should be an interesting debate. I am a firm believer that they are on a similar pedestal power wise. Since its morals off it should be an interesting debate. I however admit my knowledge of cyborg is limited.

I should be back home from my trip by tomorrow so if you are up for it let's have an informed debate.

For the record you don't have to upload every scan for every thing you say , I am a pretty trusting man so argument without scans are good enough for me. :)

@killemall: I'd love to - all that can come from it is both of us learning something about the other combatant & potentially teaching some other users about two fantastic characters.

I might show some scans if I have difficulty describing a certain feat - but it's nice to know you're trusting. Every debate I've seen you in you've always been incredibly reasonable so I have no reason not to trust you either.

Hope you enjoy the remainder of your trip :)

Leaning towards Alan for this battle.

Here are some of Alans feats:

• Goes toe-to-toe with the team buster Mordru who consistently stomps the JSA and is one of DC's most powerful mages.
• Causes Mordru major pain when he was amped on Nabu's power and had just stomped a fifth dimensional imp.
• Angirly beats up Ultra-humanite when he had a fifth dimensional imps power.
• Defeats Obsidian. Earlier, Obisidian soloed Jay, Hourman one million, and Dr. Fate as well as covering earth in shadows and stomping Kyle Rayner.
• In the silver age before he was at modern power levels he 2 shotted Hal Jordan.
• In that same story he easily beat the guardians.
• Also in the silver age Abin Sur used his ring to easily beat someone who'd stolen 2 normal GL rings.
• In a later fight with Obsidian he dominated him.
• Squares off against Herald Gog after he overpowered KC Superman.
• Harms the team buster extant.
• Holds the godlike Gog in his constructs.
• Seals off a multiversal rift.
• Ages a whole civilization to death in seconds.

@thetruebarryallen: thank you. I think Surfer biggest advantage would be matter manipulation having matter manipulated entire planet on 2 different occasions and repaired damaged wrought by enslaver while massively weakened.

I think he could matter manipulate Cyborg Superman.

His biggest weakness however is being successive to energy drainage something Cyborg is fully capable of utilizing.

Surfer might actually even be faster when he wants to be.

Hank

This isn't really relevant apart from supposed power levels, but here's Mr. Terrific(one of the smartest men on the planet, and a team-mate of Alan's who knows him in depth) referring to him as "potentially the most powerful human in the galaxy", and the fallout energy from his death being possibly enough to "take out the entire solar-system".

And on the left, is one of his rarely used but most impressive moments of finesse with his powers. He sifts through TRILLIONS of electrochemical-impulses to find one particular memory.

Again, not the most pertinent to a/the match, but just marketing that he has raw power and versatility to spare(to those generally unaware).

@killemall: Alan is made of pure energy not sure if matter manip would work.

@night4345: me and Barry are discussing exclusively about Silver Surfer and Cyborg Superman to see if we can reach consensus. So the matter manipulation part was in regards to Surfer advantage over Cyborg.

I would back Si0lver Surfer in this fight

Silver surfer wins....can superman plunge through silver surfers neck with sheer power..

@thetruebarryallen: @killemall: Looking forward to that discussion :)

@monsterstomp: cool. It's more fun when we say it's a discussion as opposed to a hard core debate. :)

Could go either way between SS and AS.

If Alan is not jobbing or holding back, I'd go with Alan simply because his powers are magic based.

Completely discounting Hank?

Hopefully my discussion with Killemall will change that!

Surfer or Alan

Surfer defiently, although Alan with Starheart would win.

And I guess Henshaw gets swept aside...

@kingant27: He always has the Starheart.

He just usually doesn't have/utilize full access to it.

All in all, should be pretty evenly matched....however I feel that Surfer trumps in the end.

Norrin has much more in his arsenal to inflict damage on Henshaw (killemall and TTBA) in response to what Hank has against Norrin.

Let the discussion begin gents.

Don't worry. I've seen Barry's work. He'll get him some notoriety!

Hank beats up Alan with a tree

@dondave: LoL

Didn't think TTBA had to :/

Lol

I'm honestly just super stoked that people associate me with Henshaw knowledge - I honestly was just inspired by Saren's respect thread so I went and read all of his appearances.

Henshaw's become my favorite character to use in High Tier debates/tournaments.

@xiix: That is what I meant, you associate No Starheart as not at his best; e.g. Not using it at full potential.

Discussion Time - Featuring TTBA & Killemall // Cyborg Superman + Silver Surfer

So - everyone in this thread, Killemall and I have decided to have a discussion about Cyborg Superman and Silver Surfer. This isn't a CaV, this isn't a "debate" just a simple discussion comparing feats, abilities, and overall awesomeness.

If you'd like to jump in and ask us anything about either character - feel free! I know I'm happy to answer any question I can about Cyborg Superman and I feel like Killemall is the kind of guy who'd love to share some information about Surfer, educating users on the Vine is rad because it enables y'all to go out and explore new characters!

Anyways - enough with the introductions - I figured I'd respond to Killemall's original thoughts on the matter.

Matter Manipulation

So Killemall opened up with the following statement:

I think Surfer biggest advantage would be matter manipulation having matter manipulated entire planet on 2 different occasions and repaired damaged wrought by enslaver while massively weakened.

Quite the incredible feat - planetary matter manipulation is just awesome; however, I don't believe that Henshaw is truly "weak" to such an attack. I'll admit that Henshaw's physical body might be manipulated and contorted - but since in the end Henshaw is only an electronic consciousness that enters and controls technology I don't exactly know if it'd work on him.

Would matter manipulation work on just a pure consciousness - because if Surfer uses that as his go to & messes up Henshaw's body, then Henshaw can just jump into another machine - quickly manipulate it via technomorphing to become like his traditional 'Cyborg Superman' body, and then begin the fight again.

Henshaw is like Swamp Thing but with technology - he can transfer his mind into any form of technology & rebuild himself with it.

Technically - Henshaw is immortal - his MAJOR goal in his stories is to find some way to die, he just want's to finally die. It's the reason why he became a herald of the Anti-Monitor during the Sinestro Corps War - the AM promised him death if he served him; however, the GLC arrived and then used a planet sized grenade on AM to bring him down - Henshaw stayed within the blast radius in an attempt to die but was only KO-ed and was quickly brought back by the Manhunters.

Energy Drainage

You've mentioned that Surfer's weakness is someone draining his energy - also stating that it's something Henshaw is fully capable of, which is true.

When Henshaw and Toymaster went up against Blue Superman [ the energy form one for those who don't know who I'm referencing ] he used a tractor beam to absorb him & imprison him while in his energy form. Now I'm not saying that Cyborg Superman is going to build something on the fly to just capture Surfer - but as you've mentioned he's fully capable of building something on the go to absorb Surfer's energy.

Doctor Doom was able to absorb some of Surfer's energy IIRC - so Cyborg Superman should be able to do the same, he's got an Ion Disruptor that - when obliterated by Blue Superman's Energy Attacks - locked onto his Bio Frequency. I figure Henshaw could use that again to learn what types of energy Surfer's packing & then technomorph a portion of his body into some sort of weapon to drain him.

Surfer's Speed

Surfer MIGHT be faster - I don't exactly know how fast he is, I'm sure he has plenty of Light Speed feats given the nature of his character.

Cyborg Superman is essentially the same physical stats of Superman - but potentially better since he's eliminated all of his traditional kryptonian weaknesses, he might've also amplified his own stats during one of his many "rebuilds".

To give an example of how fast Henshaw is - here's what he did to ROD Doomsday.

Gallery

Now - I'm not sure if he flew right through him [ which is what I THINK he did given that in the first scan you see him flying at high speeds towards DD ] or used Heat Vision - but whatever it was to do THAT to someone of Doomsday's durability level is just straight up impressive.

Anyways - I look forward to this discussion because I've always wanted to learn more about Surfer & getting to have a discussion like this with such a well renowned user is just super cool. Hope to see your response whenever you're available - @killemall

@dondave: Seriously why does everyone bring up a defunct no longer existing weakness?? The only time wood affects Alan after he absorbed the star heart was when he believes he has a weakness to it usually because he's tired after battle ( he's always depicted as looking older when wood harms him- the sign that he is drained as his perception of himself determines what he is)

@highaccuser: FYI the Abin Sur using his ring wasn't from the SA it was from Green Langern corps ( first run iirc post COIE) . It was set in the GA but a post COIE story. Also the guy who had the GL rings had a few and had already beaten Abin Sur with those to take his. Abin was noticeably impressed with the power the ring wielded.

Also nice battle very evenly matched for all 3 IMO

@beatboks1 Wally has knocked out Alan with exploding shards from a tree and Mr Terrific has dropped Alan when he made him inhale cellulose.

His weakness to wood is still there.

I wanna say Surfer, but I also want to say Alan.

@beatboks1: the wood weakness does actually come up sometimes. Blackbriar thorn has beaten him twice by exploiting that.

So someone with no knowledge of Alan's ring was able to easily beat someone with many rings even before the sentinel upgrade! Nice.

But what you should really be saying is Cyborg Superman *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

@dondave: the Wally incident is pre him absorbing the star heart completely. Johns also retconned to explain that the other incidents of Alan being susceptible to wood were due to his believing so at the time only.

Alan's wood weakness comes from the fact that pre absorbing the star heart His power came solely from the power of the green flame. When the guardians collected all chaotic energy ( magic) and trapped it the good magic knowing that the evil would one day escape broke free and became the meteor that Alan's lantern was forged from. That magic is based in the power of life meaning Alan could not adversely affect life and as wood is a form of life that Alan would actually use his power to harm wouldn't affect it. The star heart however is evil and has no problem harming life. In the heart of Darkness storyline where Alan was pulled to the realm of the star heart and it was mentioned his power was 1 tenth that of the star heart and his children were its children in power Jade eventually absorbed much of the star hear and fed her father it which gave him the chance to completely absorb it. He hasn't had the wood weakness since and doesn't

@thetruebarryallen:

wait who?????.....oh yea that guy...........no not really................

Can Hank prevent Surfer from turning him into a pancake?! Huh?! Don't think so! Surfer turns Alan and Hank into breakfast!

Can you provide an argument as to how either combatant brings him down?

Cyborg Superman's gone toe to toe against Surfer in a canon crossover and did just fine - his durability is incredible, he's completely torn through Doomsday, and can create weapons on the fly [ integrated into his body ] to target his foes specific weaknesses.

I honestly see him as the clear winner here.

Thank the lord I know you're joking.

@thetruebarryallen: I'm not joking! @xiix knows it too!

@beatboks1 Heart of Darkness was in 1998. In JSA 16 (2000), he was shot in the chest with an Oak Tree shaft and it definetly injured him.

How do you turn a consciousness into a pancake! Ya' goober :p

With the Power Cosmic!

@reaverlation: NOBODY INVITED PATRICK - HE'LL SOLO ALL 3 OF EM!

@dondave: yes and as I already explained that has been explained on panel, he was depicted as older prior to it happening and after a great battle. The same way that around the fatherland arc he was harmed by exploding boxes and yet issues before he was holding trees and afterwards moving wooden debris with his constructs. There are five instances post the heart of darkness story of wood affecting him all write by writers who handnt been aware of the change and explained ( same said artists writers drew him as old for the same reason) . So do we just ignor the fact that he has more incidents of actually affecting wood post the story than being harmed?? Because if the weakness still existed he wouldn't be able to do that