The omnipotent Egyptian being wins in a good fight with Krona. only the IG gauntlet can stop this guy, and to stop him, you have to kill him in the past, which I doubt Akhen will let them do. He is imbued with the Heart of the Universe whichis better than the IG gauntlet. Parallax loses after a decent struggle. Krona is good and can do alot of things to both two to destroy them both. Close Draw but Akhen ultimately comes out on top.
"The omnipotent Egyptian being wins in a good fight with Krona. only the IG gauntlet can stop this guy, and to stop him, you have to kill him in the past, which I doubt Akhen will let them do. He is imbued with the Heart of the Universe whichis better than the IG gauntlet. Parallax loses after a decent struggle. Krona is good and can do alot of things to both two to destroy them both. Close Draw but Akhen ultimately comes out on top."
Hmmm... but isnt Krona's power greater than the IG ? Since Krona can destroy Universes by simply probing them ? Also...Zero Hour Parallax should not go out so easy here either... not when he was able to Restart a Universe and handle The Spectre in battle as well
Spectre=Living Tribunal and Thanos's IG can beat LT. You need the IG and time travel ti kill Akhen, which he wont obviuosly let you do. Parallax is big in power but thats why he comes out third. Krona and Akhen will be close,prob draws if there are actually draws, but I'd say Akhen wins. Krona has destroyed countless universes and Galactus before, which is quite an enormous feat.
"Spectre=Living Tribunal and Thanos's IG can beat LT. You need the IG and time travel ti kill Akhen, which he wont obviuosly let you do. Parallax is big in power but thats why he comes out third. Krona and Akhen will be close,prob draws if there are actually draws, but I'd say Akhen wins. Krona has destroyed countless universes and Galactus before, which is quite an enormous feat."
But cant Original Parallax Manipulate Time ? I aint sure... it might be Original ION instead though
I'm not sure. But if he tried, he'd had to face a pissed off Akhen waiting for him in different timelines. Akhen wont let anyone kill his past self as long as he's aware/
I'm not sure. But if he tried, he'd had to face a pissed off Akhen waiting for him in different timelines. Akhen wont let anyone kill his past self as long as he's aware/
"
Yeah thats a good point... but maybe Krona could serve as a solid distraction for Akhenaten while Parallax tried to Time Travel...
I'm not sure. But if he tried, he'd had to face a pissed off Akhen waiting for him in different timelines. Akhen wont let anyone kill his past self as long as he's aware/
"
Yeah thats a good point... but maybe Krona could serve as a solid distraction for Akhenaten while Parallax tried to Time Travel... "
"Spectre=Living Tribunal and Thanos's IG can beat LT. You need the IG and time travel ti kill Akhen, which he wont obviuosly let you do. Parallax is big in power but thats why he comes out third. Krona and Akhen will be close,prob draws if there are actually draws, but I'd say Akhen wins. Krona has destroyed countless universes and Galactus before, which is quite an enormous feat."
Spectre=Living Tribunal and Thanos's IG can beat LT. You need the IG and time travel ti kill Akhen, which he wont obviuosly let you do. Parallax is big in power but thats why he comes out third. Krona and Akhen will be close,prob draws if there are actually draws, but I'd say Akhen wins. Krona has destroyed countless universes and Galactus before, which is quite an enormous feat.
A) Akhenaten wins after a decent fight between them. B) Lucifer Morningstar is the one who can match LT in terms of power. Spectre can only do it while fully backed by The Presence. C) How the hell Krona was able to do all those incredible feats?
Spectre=Living Tribunal and Thanos's IG can beat LT. You need the IG and time travel ti kill Akhen, which he wont obviuosly let you do. Parallax is big in power but thats why he comes out third. Krona and Akhen will be close,prob draws if there are actually draws, but I'd say Akhen wins. Krona has destroyed countless universes and Galactus before, which is quite an enormous feat.
A) Akhenaten wins after a decent fight between them. B) Lucifer Morningstar is the one who can match LT in terms of power. Spectre can only do it while fully backed by The Presence. C) How the hell Krona was able to do all those incredible feats?
Actually he can, Classic Lucifer was the infinite Will of God and equal to Michael, God's Power. Currently, Lucifer is somewhat equal to The Presence to the point God offered him to merge into one being with the memories of both.
@rolldestroyer: Because of the fact that he had Heart Of the Universe, or least a part of it there of. The only thing on panel given to have overcome that power being Thanos full control over the universe. Thanos also made it clear HOTU was the only way to stop Akhenaten. We also have the fact that he has high end abstracts genuinely scared of him.
@rolldestroyer: Because of the fact that he had Heart Of the Universe, or least a part of it there of. The only thing on panel given to have overcome that power being Thanos full control over the universe. Thanos also made it clear HOTU was the only way to stop Akhenaten. We also have the fact that he has high end abstracts genuinely scared of him.
part of it.
universal abstracts were scared of him including eternity (who is generally regarded as being the most powerful abstract excluding LT) but krona was also more powerful than eternity and he destroyed many universes (JLA/avengers version) and it took 12 most powerful artifacts to defeat him (already posted scans in krona vs abraxas thread). So there's nothing to suggest that Akhenaten is more powerful than this version of krona.
in another incarnation he was bigger than a whole universe and was able to oneshot an embodiment of an entire universe (which was his past self), that's certainly better than anything akhenaten has done.
@rolldestroyer: Because of the fact that he had Heart Of the Universe, or least a part of it there of. The only thing on panel given to have overcome that power being Thanos full control over the universe. Thanos also made it clear HOTU was the only way to stop Akhenaten. We also have the fact that he has high end abstracts genuinely scared of him.
part of it.
universal abstracts were scared of him including eternity (who is generally regarded as being the most powerful abstract excluding LT) but krona was also more powerful than eternity and he destroyed many universes (JLA/avengers version) and it took 12 most powerful artifacts to defeat him (already posted scans in krona vs abraxas thread). So there's nothing to suggest that Akhenaten is more powerful than this version of krona.
in another incarnation he was bigger than a whole universe and was able to oneshot an embodiment of an entire universe (which was his past self), that's certainly better than anything akhenaten has done.
I would still have to say Akhenaten, sure Krona showed more feats but Akhenaten had a piece of the HOTU not all of it but still and the reason Akhenaten didn't go and course chaos in the multiverse was because he didn't wanted to, he wanted to conquer Earth and remake his Egyptian empire, now if he wanted to destroy the multiverse he would have.
So with that said Akhenaten would come out the winner if you ask me.
Spectre could match LT in power if hes fully backed by the Presence,
Spectre is not equal to Living Tribunal. LT is closer to the Presence.
Also, I've never actually seen any evidence of the "backed by the Presence" thing. Spectre is either unbound (full power) or bound by a mortal which makes him less powerful, but I've never seen him get amped by the Presence.
we go by feats, akhenaten didn't have any feats beyond universal. And there's really no way to gauge akhenaten's power level seeing how he had only part of the HOTI, how much of it? it isn't known, and you really can't argue that part of infinite is still infinite (at least not in comics) that is evident by the fact that when thanos had the full power of the HOTI he stomped akhenaten, so saying part of infinite (which akhenaten had) is still infinite isn't an argument you can use here, in which case we go by feats, and by feats, akhenaten didn't show anything on krona's level.
Spectre could match LT in power if hes fully backed by the Presence,
Spectre is not equal to Living Tribunal. LT is closer to the Presence.
Also, I've never actually seen any evidence of the "backed by the Presence" thing. Spectre is either unbound (full power) or bound by a mortal which makes him less powerful, but I've never seen him get amped by the Presence.
he has the power of the logoz, which is directly referenced as being the power of the presence (JLA/spectre soul war #2)
make of that what you will.
also i dont know where are you getting that LT is close to the presence. there are several beings in DC who are close to LT.
And there are several beings in Marvel who are close to LT and Presence. What I'm saying is that the Presence is close to the most powerful character in DC, but not omnipotent, which closely matches the description of LT. DC has no equivalent of TOAA, which the Presence definitely is not.
Saying that Spectre can match LT in power is silly, since Spectre's power is all over the place from pretty low showings to pretty high. But, his pretty high showings are not nearly as high as LT who is truly the top of the food chain in marvel universe characters. (TOAA is really the avatar of the writer, and as such not a "character" like all the others)
And there are several beings in Marvel who are close to LT and Presence. What I'm saying is that the Presence is close to the most powerful character in DC, but not omnipotent, which closely matches the description of LT. DC has no equivalent of TOAA, which the Presence definitely is not.
Saying that Spectre can match LT in power is silly, since Spectre's power is all over the place from pretty low showings to pretty high. But, his pretty high showings are not nearly as high as LT who is truly the top of the food chain in marvel universe characters. (TOAA is really the avatar of the writer, and as such not a "character" like all the others)
who in marvel aside from TOAA is close to the presence? LT isn't close, while his power is beyond even multiversal he does have his bad moments. And though the presence isn't the equivalent of TOAA he is still omnipotent inside DCU, LT is not omnipotent inside MU.
that, i agree, spectre is definitely not on LT's level. Lucifer, michael and synnar are the closest to LT but still not on par with him, the only one aside from the presence who is more powerful than LT is possibly the great evil beast.
that, i agree, spectre is definitely not on LT's level. Lucifer, michael and synnar are the closest to LT but still not on par with him, the only one aside from the presence who is more powerful than LT is possibly the great evil beast.
I'm no expert, but the Presence doesnt seem to be omnipotent in DC. There is the GEB which is supposed to be equally powerful, or at least out of the control of the Presence. Then there's the Overmonitor.
I do think the LT on Marvels side is the closest to the Presence, since both are near-omnipotent, but not quite.
that, i agree, spectre is definitely not on LT's level. Lucifer, michael and synnar are the closest to LT but still not on par with him, the only one aside from the presence who is more powerful than LT is possibly the great evil beast.
I'm no expert, but the Presence doesnt seem to be omnipotent in DC. There is the GEB which is supposed to be equally powerful, or at least out of the control of the Presence. Then there's the Overmonitor.
I do think the LT on Marvels side is the closest to the Presence, since both are near-omnipotent, but not quite.
they didn't stalemate, they merged together, nor was it GEB's intention to even fight the presence, and what proves that presence is superior is the fact that GEB was sealed away before being summoned.
You're right about overmonitor, morrison has directly referred to it in an interview as being God, i could also list at least 5 creators that have appeared in DC but aren't that popular since they weren't shown in popular story arcs, overmonitor and the presence are just the most popular. But i tend to consider the presence as being supreme since he's the most frequently mentioned as being God, otherwise we'll end up having a horde of supreme beings
they didn't stalemate, they merged together, nor was it GEB's intention to even fight the presence, and what proves that presence is superior is the fact that GEB was sealed away before being summoned.
Like I said, I'm not an expert. If the GEB is less powerful than the Presence, then that's fine. My point is that the Presence is not omnipotent. The fact that anyone can defy, challenge, hide information from, or go against the wishes of the Presence proves this.
It doesnt matter to me if the Presence is the most powerful god in DC, this also applies to LT in Marvel. Marvel just doesnt refer to LT as a "God" because they're not into pushing the whole Judeo/Christian religious stuff as much as DC... and I prefer it much more that way. If LT has more low showings and more characters that have rivaled his power, it's only because Marvel uses LT more in stories and hence there's good reason for having him/it be vulnerable at times. Point is that as far as I can tell LT is the closest analog to the Presence in Marvel.
As far as the Overmonitor... for all I know it's DCs version of TOAA. I just dont like when people equate the Presence to TOAA, because they are inherently different. The Presence is just a very powerful being in DC, maybe the most powerful, but not omnipotent. TOAA is the avatar of the writer and implicitly omnipotent. The Presence is a character that takes part in stories, while TOAA is just a plot device for the writer to be creative with and break the fourth wall if needed.
asmodel did defy the presence and look how it ended (scans from right to left)
Gallery
lucifer even thought of defying the presence ( and yet he himself admits that the presence knows this but wonders why the presence hasn't dealt with him already):
so defying the presence doesn't prove that he isn't omnipotent at all.
let me clarify, when i say God i mean it as in the supreme being, the creator, whom several are featured, the source is frequently described as The One Above all and the creator, in rann/thanagar holy war there's a supreme singularity which is also referred as being the supreme and responsible for creating the multiverse, at the end of warlord series a creator and a supreme being was also featured, Allah was directly referenced as being the creator in a JLA annual issue, Azathoth, Shiva were also mentioned as being the creators , i could go on......this is also the case with overmonitor, who was depicted as being the creator in one issue so what makes him different from the ones that i listed?
so what im trying to say is that since the presence is the most frequently mentioned as being the creator and supreme being he is DC's version of the supreme being rather than overmonitor.
i never disagreed with you that presence is not equal to TOAA, i know that TOAA represents the writers while the presence is just a character.
That's true. When I say he's not omnipotent I'm mostly thinking of GEB and Overmonitor, beings (or whatever they are) who are outside the influence/control of the Presence.
Sure, and I'm not saying that LT has the same role. I'm only saying that he's closer in terms of power and scope of power to the Presence than others. If not, who in Marvel is? That was my original statement that you replied to.
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