Aizen Vs Piccolo

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flashback0180

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when piccolo charged sbc his power level was around 1300. But he was just 340 - 400 when he destroyed the moon.

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jeepeh

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#52  Edited By jeepeh

@jeepeh said:
@randomsid said:

@jeepeh said:

@randomsid He can teleport, but his actual speed would be up for debate. We know it's way more (maybe incredibly so) than Mach 500. That's all we got.

Then he loses. Piccolo(just after the fight with Raditz) destroyed the moon at FTL speeds. If Aizen cannot dodge the FTL attacks he can't win.

Would Piccolo randomly start the fight with a random ki blast in character? Also, if this is composite, then Aizen's immortal. Yamamoto's Bankai (the sun) isn't capable of killing him.

Yes, he absolutely would throw out Ki blasts at the start of the fight. He's done it many times. Ki blasts are a staple of his fighting. You will have to explain(preferably with scans or video's) "Yamamoto's Bankai".

Central 46 stated that they were imprisoning Aizen because there was no way they could kill him. Meanwhile, Yamamoto's standing over here with a Bankai (Full Release) that essentially makes him the sun.

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@flashback0180

I meant after piccolo has been hit, not the other way around. Any kind of illusion will disappear by default on contacting with his sword .stated and proven by multiple incidents

I see, though there may be reason to doubt that. IIRC, Gin said that you must touch the sword before the hypnosis is completed.

Loading Video...

That scan shows nothing but the fact that Aizen didn't need to be invisible anymore.

Here, Aizen injured many of the captains while using Kyoka suigetsu, and it isn't dropped until he wishes it to be. (unimportant pages omitted to keep the size down)

As the flashback images show, the entire scene was an illusion. But he cut Love, Rose, and Lisa, and I think I forgot the pages with Komamura. But at no point did any of them say "Oh crap, that's not Aizen! Hinamori's here too!"

Cool but you are going directly against the Manga and the very explanation That Aizen gives. Fact is he himself says he has control of 5 senses no more - no less (fact).

I'm going against the manga? lol. If they could still sense his Reiatsu normally, then there'd be no story. It's how it works, it wasn't specifically pointed out, but it's how it happens. Tousen sees via Reiatsu, does he not? If they could sense his Reiatsu, then his Hypnosis wouldn't do anything. So, you're correct that it wasn't mentioned specifically, but it's how it works.

Bleach characters don't sense ki/spiritual energy like dbz characters do.It's a well known stated fact that weaken characters can't sense spiritual presence of extremely powerful people like Aizen. Aizen purposefully lowered his presence most of the time.

No, it's the same thing as God ki in DBZ. He's too powerful to be sensed. But that didn't happen until after he evolved. His base form is still sense-able. You're warping facts, hopefully not on purpose.

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flashback0180

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#53  Edited By flashback0180

@jeepeh said:

I see, though there may be reason to doubt that. IIRC, Gin said that you must touch the sword before the hypnosis is completed.

https://youtu.be/GFirH1zCStc

What kind of logic are you using ..? It's the same weather if he touches it by hand or leg or any other body part.

That scan shows nothing but the fact that Aizen didn't need to be invisible anymore.

That scan proves he was hiding his presence throughout the fight. Kubo even used all of aizens previous fight images clearly implying it.

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As the flashback images show, the entire scene was an illusion. But he cut Love, Rose, and Lisa, and I think I forgot the pages with Komamura. But at no point did any of them say "Oh crap, that's not Aizen! Hinamori's here too!"

I've explained this in my last comment, All of them were weaker than Aizen to begin with. Most of them were weaker than bankai ichigo.

I'm going against the manga? lol. If they could still sense his Reiatsu normally, then there'd be no story. It's how it works, it wasn't specifically pointed out, but it's how it happens. Tousen sees via Reiatsu, does he not? If they could sense his Reiatsu, then his Hypnosis wouldn't do anything. So, you're correct that it wasn't mentioned specifically, but it's how it works.

Yes you are. First of you are literally making your own power set to suit the situation.

Fact 1 :

The Manga says Aizen only controls 5 senses. Animal instinct and Ki sense are the unknown 6th sense.

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Fact 2 :

Aizen himself says it's impossible for weaker characters to sense his spiritual power, Meaning the captains were manipulated

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Tousen sees via Reiatsu, does he not? If they could sense his Reiatsu, then his Hypnosis wouldn't do anything. So, you're correct that it wasn't mentioned specifically, but it's how it works.

What are you talking about? Tousens bankai is completely different from Aizens shikai . He specifically says his ability takes away spiritual sense. Which isn't one of the 5 senses.

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No, it's the same thing as God ki in DBZ. He's too powerful to be sensed. But that didn't happen until after he evolved. His base form is still sense-able. You're warping facts, hopefully not on purpose.

Those two are not even related they can't sense it because , God ki is a different form of energy, like the androids. Therefore isn't sensed. King kai sensed berus arrival are you trying to convince me that king kai is stronger than goku.

Also even early dB character like roshi can sense ssj3 gokus power. In fact he himself calculated vegeta to have surpassed ssj3 goku in bog. Roshi has the power level of 140 while ssj3 goku is in a billion.

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jeepeh

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#54  Edited By jeepeh

@flashback0180:

What kind of logic are you using ..? It's the same weather if he touches it by hand or leg or any other body part.

That part of My post had nothing to do with what you just said.

That scan proves he was hiding his presence throughout the fight. Kubo even used all of aizens previous fight images clearly implying it.

All of those images are of after he evolved. Try again. You've read Bleach, right?

I've explained this in my last comment, All of them were weaker than Aizen to begin with. Most of them were weaker than bankai ichigo.

That doesn't matter in the slightest. Rukia was able to feel Byakuya when her Reiatsu was at almost 0. Aizen was stronger, so he won the fight. That doesn't mean anything about whether they can feel him or not. The gap in power required is impossibly larger.

Yes you are. First of you are literally making your own power set to suit the situation.

lol. No, I'm telling you how his power works in-series. I'm almost 100% convinced you've never seen Bleach, or done much looking into it.

The Manga says Aizen only controls 5 senses. Animal instinct and Ki sense are the unknown 6th sense.

Does. Not. Matter. No-one is capable of sensing him accurately during the illusions, if they were, they would've known he was still alive in the SS arc when he faked his death. Even if not, they'd have known that he wasn't in the air fighting with them.

Aizen himself says it's impossible for weaker characters to sense his spiritual power, Meaning the captains were manipulated

I'm sorry if this comes acrossed as harsh, but this is getting bad. You're comparing scenes from when Aizen was merely multiple times average captain level, and 4 upgrades later after being a "Transcendent" was made a thing. NO-ONE was a transcendent before Aizen evolved. You want me to disprove that idea? Okay

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EVER SINCE HE TOOK THAT FORM. aka the form that he took AFTER the battle with the captains.

What are you talking about? Tousens bankai is completely different from Aizens shikai .

I wasn't talking about his Zanpakuto. He's blind, when he first met Komamura, he talked to him facing the wrong direction, because Komamura was hiding his Spiritual pressure amazingly well.

Those two are not even related they can't sense it because , God ki is a different form of energy,

Depending on who you ask, so is a Transcendent's Reiatsu. Though I don't really believe that, so gg. (Although, it's still true that anyone who uses god ki is more powerful than anyone who uses ki, correct?) But my original point still stands. No-one has ever been able to say "Aizen's not actually right there! He's over there! I can sense his Reiatsu that well!". And that never happened BEFORE he became unsenseable. BEFORE Ichigo became unsenseable.

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RandomSid82

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@jeepeh: Ok, so you posted a scan of a character saying that his Bankai made him the "embodiment of the sun" and "15 million degrees". Is there any actual proof of that statement or is it just a statement? I mean, what does he do with this? Does he actually do any destruction with it? Are we supposed to take a statement as fact when just about all manga has plenty of hyperbole?

I'm just curious because I don't know that much about the character. Trying to learn more about the character so that I know if he is a match for Piccolo or not.

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Drones

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It depends on who hits first, Aizen can use a stronger Kurohitsugi as of today's chapter of Bleach without an incantation and use Kyoka Suigetsu without a sword. Piccolo can obviously vaporize him with any attack. But we're not using that version of Aizen so the battle is fair.

Kurohitsugi negates anything though so he could use it as a shield perhaps? It would destroy ki blasts. Yeah he destroyed the moon in three seconds that's quite a feat but if Aizen manages to put him under Kyoka Suigetsu's spell then follows it up with Kurohitsugi he's done. Piccolo still has speed, strength, and destructive advantage.

So versus this from of Aizen, Piccolo wins 6 times out of 10.

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Piccolo dominates him easily

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jeepeh

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@jeepeh: Ok, so you posted a scan of a character saying that his Bankai made him the "embodiment of the sun" and "15 million degrees". Is there any actual proof of that statement or is it just a statement? I mean, what does he do with this? Does he actually do any destruction with it? Are we supposed to take a statement as fact when just about all manga has plenty of hyperbole?

I'm just curious because I don't know that much about the character. Trying to learn more about the character so that I know if he is a match for Piccolo or not.

Oh, so you haven't read Bleach. I probably should've explained it more then,

Yamamoto only used his Bankai one time on an imposter of the main villain. What would you take as proof? If the planet melts from his existence? That's not gonna happen. If everyone around him died? Then all the main characters are dead, not gonna happen. Juha said that he would've turned to ashes just from being near him if he didn't have his super durability.

Was it a statement? Yes. But it's a true statement. Just like Rukia being Absolute 0. Will you not believe that she's absolute 0 unless you can actually see the molecules stop moving?

It was a statement, so what though? If Yamamoto's bankai is hyperbole, then so is Cell being a solar system buster.

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jeepeh

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@drones said:

It depends on who hits first, Aizen can use a stronger Kurohitsugi as of today's chapter of Bleach without an incantation and use Kyoka Suigetsu without a sword. Piccolo can obviously vaporize him with any attack. But we're not using that version of Aizen so the battle is fair.

Kurohitsugi negates anything though so he could use it as a shield perhaps? It would destroy ki blasts. Yeah he destroyed the moon in three seconds that's quite a feat but if Aizen manages to put him under Kyoka Suigetsu's spell then follows it up with Kurohitsugi he's done. Piccolo still has speed, strength, and destructive advantage.

So versus this from of Aizen, Piccolo wins 6 times out of 10.

I question the fact that Piccolo could vaporize Aizen so easily. Aizen is considered immortal in Bleach, yet Yamamoto has the temperatures of the sun.

Kurohitsugi negates anything? Um.... I don't recall that. It's an attack is it not?

I would argue that Kurohitsugi would mess Piccolo up though, having a step up from gravity that warps time and space is scary.

This chapter, while being epic, is going to give me so many problems in debates, I already know it.

"Aizen's not a transcendent! They felt his reiatsu! He's not stronger than he was in Deicide"

"Where did they feel his Reiatsu?"

"They noticed him!"

"... Yeah, after he spoke."

It's gonna happen.

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RandomSid82

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@jeepeh said:

@randomsid said:

@jeepeh: Ok, so you posted a scan of a character saying that his Bankai made him the "embodiment of the sun" and "15 million degrees". Is there any actual proof of that statement or is it just a statement? I mean, what does he do with this? Does he actually do any destruction with it? Are we supposed to take a statement as fact when just about all manga has plenty of hyperbole?

I'm just curious because I don't know that much about the character. Trying to learn more about the character so that I know if he is a match for Piccolo or not.

Oh, so you haven't read Bleach. I probably should've explained it more then,

No, I haven't read Bleach. I've seen a few episodes of the anime but that's about it. But yes, I would like to learn more about the characters.

Yamamoto only used his Bankai one time on an imposter of the main villain. What would you take as proof? If the planet melts from his existence? That's not gonna happen. If everyone around him died? Then all the main characters are dead, not gonna happen. Juha said that he would've turned to ashes just from being near him if he didn't have his super durability.

What happened when he used it on the guy he used it on? No, I don't expect to see him using it and killing his own teammates, but we have to have something to go by other than a statement.

Was it a statement? Yes. But it's a true statement. Just like Rukia being Absolute 0. Will you not believe that she's absolute 0 unless you can actually see the molecules stop moving?

It was a statement, so what though? If Yamamoto's bankai is hyperbole, then so is Cell being a solar system buster.

And yes, many people do consider Cell being a solar system buster as hyperbole. I'm not really one of those people as he was casually able to bust planets, but a lot of people do because he didn't show proof of it. We go by what we can see, we would need to know the durability of the character he used it on, and what it did to that character. We've seen ki blasts completely obliterate people on DBZ, we've also seen Piccolo casually bust the moon at FTL speeds. So what we need is some sort of proof of the power of Aizen's Bankai.

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MrUnsmiley

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#63  Edited By MrUnsmiley

I'm going to be the underdog here and say Aizen. Piccolo has raw power to be sure, but he doesn't just casually throw around planet-buster attacks, especially not his Raditz-saga incarnation.

Besides his shikai, Aizen has the advantage of Kidou, which he can use to immobilize Piccolo or harm him greatly. Don't see how he'd last long against a Black Coffin.

Hell, if we're getting inventive, Aizen could win via BFR with a Garganta.

Oh yeah, and if Soul Society can't find a way to kill Aizen at their leisure, I doubt Piccolo could in the heat of battle.

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@ssjbatdan: What exactly does that have to do with anything? He knew that Raditz was a threat because of his enormous chi, also by how evil it was. Intentions are completely different from the feel they'd get from a person's chi.

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MrUnsmiley

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@mrunsmiley said:

@ssjbatdan: What exactly does that have to do with anything? He knew that Raditz was a threat because of his enormous chi, also by how evil it was. Intentions are completely different from the feel they'd get from a person's chi.

I think you need to re-read/watch Dragon Ball/Z.

I think you do. If someone could read exactly what their opponent was going to do based off of their chi, a good deal of things never would have happened. Goku would've known Freeza was going to destroy Namek; Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan would've known Super Buu's plan to absorb Gotenks, etc. If this is possible like you claim, why did any of that happen?

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colliderz

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#68  Edited By colliderz

I'm going to be the underdog here and say Aizen. Piccolo has raw power to be sure, but he doesn't just casually throw around planet-buster attacks, especially not his Raditz-saga incarnation.

Besides his shikai, Aizen has the advantage of Kidou, which he can use to immobilize Piccolo or harm him greatly. Don't see how he'd last long against a Black Coffin.

Hell, if we're getting inventive, Aizen could win via BFR with a Garganta.

Oh yeah, and if Soul Society can't find a way to kill Aizen at their leisure, I doubt Piccolo could in the heat of battle.

1.Bakudos can be overpowered with raw power, not gonna work on Piccolo and no Hadou has ever shown to have the damage output to greatly damage Piccolo either either

2.Black Coffin is basically a gravity attack, if you think it can take down Piccolo please explain

3.OP says ''in character'' Aizen would never do such thing and even if he did, Aizen himself escaping would be retreat and a loss on his side

4.''Win by any means'' not ''win by kill'' Aizen can still be KOed, not that Piccolo can't oblirate him into nothing with a ki blast

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MrUnsmiley

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@mrunsmiley said:

I'm going to be the underdog here and say Aizen. Piccolo has raw power to be sure, but he doesn't just casually throw around planet-buster attacks, especially not his Raditz-saga incarnation.

Besides his shikai, Aizen has the advantage of Kidou, which he can use to immobilize Piccolo or harm him greatly. Don't see how he'd last long against a Black Coffin.

Hell, if we're getting inventive, Aizen could win via BFR with a Garganta.

Oh yeah, and if Soul Society can't find a way to kill Aizen at their leisure, I doubt Piccolo could in the heat of battle.

1.Bakudos can be overpowered with raw power, not gonna work on Piccolo and no Hadou has ever shown to have the damage output to greatly damage Piccolo either either

2.Black Coffin is basically a gravity attack, if you think it can take down Piccolo please explain

3.OP says ''in character'' Aizen would never do such thing and even if he did, Aizen himself escaping would be retreat and a loss on his side

4.''Win by any means'' not ''win by kill'' Aizen can still be KOed, not that Piccolo can't oblirate him into nothing with a ki blast

1. Wrong. Bakudou can be overpowered, but not effortlessly, and especially not when the caster is a master of Kido. Aizen effortlessly dropped a Captain with a Black Coffin with no incantation, which is a fraction of the spell's full strength. I don't doubt Piccolo could break through a Bakudou, but it would definitely take time. As for his damage resistance, he's capable of being wounded by even basic ki blasts, so you're going out on a limb by saying no Hadou could harm him. Byakurai could certainly wound him, seeing as how it pierces flesh rather easily; if Aizen bothered to use a full incantation, Piccolo would be done for.

2. Are you implying that Piccolo can resist high levels of crushing gravity, even at full incantation? Because this is still Raditz-saga Piccolo, aka he hasn't been on King Kai's planet yet, so he has no experience with higher levels of gravity to fall back on.

3. You obviously mistook what I meant: Aizen could easily open a Garganta and throw Piccolo inside it. He'd have no way of getting out.

4. Really? Because Aizen has impressive damage resistance, especially this is his composite form. That includes his Hogyoku feats and durability. Piccolo has shown nothing that could seriously injure Aizen besides SBC at this point.

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jeepeh

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#70  Edited By jeepeh

@randomsid What happened to the guy at the end?

No Caption Provided

And yes, many people do consider Cell being a solar system buster as hyperbole. I'm not really one of those people

... So you don't think it's hyperbole, yet you call Yamamoto hyperbole?

I'm not really one of those people as he was casually able to bust planets

Being able to bust planets, and being able to bust solar systems, are very very very very very very very different things. Even star busting is impossibly harder than planet busting.

So what we need is some sort of proof of the power of Aizen's Bankai.

Aizen hasn't revealed his Bankai. We don't know what it is.

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GXrevolution96

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Piccolo. Aizen's illusions won't work. Piccolo will be able to feel his movements with Ki. Alternatively, he can just fire an omnidirectional Ki blast which be sure to tag Aizen.

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flashback0180

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@jeepeh: aha, I confused the two events, the centre pic of aizen with the torn hollow outfit looked extremely similar to the images where ichigo sliced aizen and his outfit in half on entry from the dangi.

This still doesn't explain your point! There isn’t a single proof that says he can create false spiritual energy in his illusion , the manga Littrally says 5 senses, for all you know he was just hiding his presence completely . Which you have pointed few they are capable of few times in this thread.

You are basically saying aizen can manipulate any kind of 6th sense, even ones that are impossibleto explain like earzas 6th sense battle feat .

Ki is more than just spiritual energy

Also What is he going to do when piccolo just starts attacking from the start, just spam ki blasts at him. Which is very in character of him .

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jeepeh

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@jeepeh: aha, I confused the two events, the centre pic of aizen with the torn hollow outfit looked extremely similar to the images where ichigo sliced aizen and his outfit in half on entry from the dangi.

This still doesn't explain your point! There isn’t a single proof that says he can create false spiritual energy in his illusion , the manga Littrally says 5 senses, for all you know he was just hiding his presence completely . Which you have pointed few they are capable of few times in this thread.

You are basically saying aizen can manipulate any kind of 6th sense, even ones that are impossibleto explain like earzas 6th sense battle feat .

Ki is more than just spiritual energy

Also What is he going to do when piccolo just starts attacking from the start, just spam ki blasts at him. Which is very in character of him .

*sigh* Although, at what point does he say "ONLY 5 senses" ? He says it controls the 5 senses, he doesn't say that's all he controls. See? I can play this game too.

What will he do? Um, regenerate from them as I explained to Randomsid, aim-dodge teleport, or create an illusion because seeing Aizen is the same as seeing his Shikai now.

Piccolo. Aizen's illusions won't work. Piccolo will be able to feel his movements with Ki. Alternatively, he can just fire an omnidirectional Ki blast which be sure to tag Aizen.

If that was possible, why did none of the Bleach characters ever see through his illusions by sensing his Reiatsu?

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@jeepeh said:

@gxrevolution96 said:

Piccolo. Aizen's illusions won't work. Piccolo will be able to feel his movements with Ki. Alternatively, he can just fire an omnidirectional Ki blast which be sure to tag Aizen.

If that was possible, why did none of the Bleach characters ever see through his illusions by sensing his Reiatsu?

...why wouldn't it be possible, exactly? Ki is not part of five senses which aizen controls.

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Piccolo one shots

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jeepeh

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@jeepeh said:

@gxrevolution96 said:

Piccolo. Aizen's illusions won't work. Piccolo will be able to feel his movements with Ki. Alternatively, he can just fire an omnidirectional Ki blast which be sure to tag Aizen.

If that was possible, why did none of the Bleach characters ever see through his illusions by sensing his Reiatsu?

...why wouldn't it be possible, exactly? Ki is not part of five senses which aizen controls.

Neither is sensing Reiatsu, yet it never worked.

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PrinceAragorn1

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#78  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh said:

@gxrevolution96 said:

Piccolo. Aizen's illusions won't work. Piccolo will be able to feel his movements with Ki. Alternatively, he can just fire an omnidirectional Ki blast which be sure to tag Aizen.

If that was possible, why did none of the Bleach characters ever see through his illusions by sensing his Reiatsu?

...why wouldn't it be possible, exactly? Ki is not part of five senses which aizen controls.

Neither is sensing Reiatsu, yet it never worked.

Worked for yamamoto..

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jeepeh

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#79  Edited By jeepeh

@princearagorn1: Yeah, after it was INSIDE OF HIS BODY. It's a little late at that point.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1: Yeah, after it was INSIDE OF HIS BODY. It's a little late at that point.

But still, it works. Unlike shinigami, z fighters have showings of incorporating the sensing in fights.

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jeepeh

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#81  Edited By jeepeh

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1: Yeah, after it was INSIDE OF HIS BODY. It's a little late at that point.

But still, it works. Unlike shinigami, z fighters have showings of incorporating the sensing in fights.

But at this point he's already stabbed, it's too late. Aizen can just pull the sword out of him and then Piccolo's back to square one. This is all assuming that Aizen stabs him, rather than just outright slashing him like usual.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1: Yeah, after it was INSIDE OF HIS BODY. It's a little late at that point.

But still, it works. Unlike shinigami, z fighters have showings of incorporating the sensing in fights.

But at this point he's already stabbed, it's too late. Aizen can just pull the sword out of him and then Piccolo's back to square one. This is all assuming that Aizen stabs him, rather than just outright slashing him like usual.

Considering we now know that sensing still works, piccolo can sense him anywhere - they always use ki sensing to locate things mid-battle, unlike shinigami.

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Aizen is by far my favorite bleach character besides dangai ichigo. However he has nothing to put piccolo down. Even if ks worked how would he capitalize? Even in monster form his fraggor was multi mountain level and his ultra fraggor island level at best. Piccolo casually busted the moon. gg. He can tank attacks all day or just release his ki in every direction and then aizen is vaped

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flashback0180

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@jeepeh said:

@flashback0180 said:

@jeepeh: aha, I confused the two events, the centre pic of aizen with the torn hollow outfit looked extremely similar to the images where ichigo sliced aizen and his outfit in half on entry from the dangi.

This still doesn't explain your point! There isn’t a single proof that says he can create false spiritual energy in his illusion , the manga Littrally says 5 senses, for all you know he was just hiding his presence completely . Which you have pointed few they are capable of few times in this thread.

You are basically saying aizen can manipulate any kind of 6th sense, even ones that are impossibleto explain like earzas 6th sense battle feat .

Ki is more than just spiritual energy

Also What is he going to do when piccolo just starts attacking from the start, just spam ki blasts at him. Which is very in character of him .

*sigh* Although, at what point does he say "ONLY 5 senses" ? He says it controls the 5 senses, he doesn't say that's all he controls. See? I can play this game too.

What will he do? Um, regenerate from them as I explained to Randomsid, aim-dodge teleport, or create an illusion because seeing Aizen is the same as seeing his Shikai now.

1

like i said you are giving powers he doesn't have, aizen clearly explains his powers that he controls the 5 senses .


The Manga says Aizen only controls 5 senses. Animal instinct and Ki sense are the unknown 6th sense.

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.

and are we supposed to assume aizen can just manipulate any kind of 6th sense. even the most broken ones.

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2

not really piccolo has the durability to tank gokus kamhamaha which is stated to be able to destroy the moon in the daizenshuu. Picclo can causally kill aizen at this point of time, his aoe is continental. are you assuming aizen will chop of his head from the start?

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anizen doesn't know what piccolo is capable of , any kind of logic would dictate he would just destroy everything around him, which he has done before.

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regeneration,

hyperbole as hell, piccolos DC is grater than what hogyoku has ever shown. plus aizen has NEVER regenerated from cell or atomic level. By your logic he can regenerate by a universe destroying blast .

when has anyone on bleach been able to tank a moon vaporizing level blast. aizen was impressed by slicing a mountain in half and a multi city blast. the moon is bigger and more massive than a continent

this is the difference between mountain level and planetoids level

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jeepeh

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#85  Edited By jeepeh

@flashback0180:

like i said you are giving powers he doesn't have, aizen clearly explains his powers that he controls the 5 senses .

Way to jump over my comment there, again.

and are we supposed to assume aizen can just manipulate any kind of 6th sense. even the most broken ones.

No, just that sensing his energy mid-illusion doesn't work. Since it never has in-story.

not really piccolo has the durability to tank gokus kamhamaha which is stated to be able to destroy the moon in the daizenshuu. Picclo can causally kill aizen at this point of time, his aoe is continental. are you assuming aizen will chop of his head from the start?

If Yamamoto's bankai (the sun) can't kill him, can moon-level things? And even if it did "completely destroy him". He was completely destroyed by Mugetsu, but he regenerated anyway. Mugetsu cut him in half and then disintegrated him, yet he came back.

anizen doesn't know what piccolo is capable of ,

Can't he just sense his Ki?

hyperbole as hell, piccolos DC is grater than what hogyoku has ever shown.

Well, he was vaporized. Can you get any more destroyed than vaporized?

plus aizen has NEVER regenerated from cell or atomic level.

He was disintegrated tho. .-.

aizen was impressed by slicing a mountain in half

Um, no. He was impressed with vaporizing a mountain from 200 ft away from sheer air force. That's a very very very very very very big difference. Don't downplay, please.

and a multi city blast.

What are you referring to? The Fraggor? The fraggor burnt Dangai Ichigo, who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamamoto, who is essentially the sun. I think that speaks loads of Aizen's DC, not his AoE, because no-one cares about his AoE. The explosion was a friggin confined pillar. Destroying the planet would be bad, you know? No more series.

the moon is bigger and more massive than a continent

Continent busting? Well the Seireitei is about 1,000 mi wide. And Gremmy's meteor was going to crush it, and Kenpachi obliterated it. Aizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kenpachi. Do I need to bring up the space/time level Kido of his 3-upgrades-prior-self?

By your logic he can regenerate by a universe destroying blast .

Eh. That's a big difference from moon busting. My question still stands btw. Can you get more destroyed than disintegrated? Regardless of how powerful the thing that disintegrated you was? I haven't thought of that much.

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1: Yeah, after it was INSIDE OF HIS BODY. It's a little late at that point.

But still, it works. Unlike shinigami, z fighters have showings of incorporating the sensing in fights.

But at this point he's already stabbed, it's too late. Aizen can just pull the sword out of him and then Piccolo's back to square one. This is all assuming that Aizen stabs him, rather than just outright slashing him like usual.

Considering we now know that sensing still works, piccolo can sense him anywhere - they always use ki sensing to locate things mid-battle, unlike shinigami.

It only worked once it was INSIDE his body. Also, that wasn't an illusion, who's to say that he would've sensed it correctly if it had been? Heck, how do we know that it wasn't? Aizen's arm wasn't injured in the scenes afterwards. Doesn't Tousen fight entirely by sensing people's Reiatsu, since he's blind? When the Soul Reapers came to Ichigo's school they found his classroom by going to the source of his Spiritual Pressure.

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#86  Edited By PrinceAragorn1
@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1 said:

Considering we now know that sensing still works, piccolo can sense him anywhere - they always use ki sensing to locate things mid-battle, unlike shinigami.

It only worked once it was INSIDE his body. Also, that wasn't an illusion, who's to say that he would've sensed it correctly if it had been? Heck, how do we know that it wasn't

There's no basis why ki sensing wouldn't work to begin with. We know kyoka suigetsu cannot affect it because it was sensed by yamamoto that reiatsu can still be sensed - and for the simple reason that it is not one of the five senses.

Unlike shinigami, z fighters adapt ki sensing fully in their fighting, gotei 13 failing to do it is no basis for piccolo, or any other competant sensor will not be able to do it.

Aizen's arm wasn't injured in the scenes afterwards.

Regeneration.

Doesn't Tousen fight entirely by sensing people's Reiatsu, since he's blind?

Yes, and kyoka suigetsu is useless on him, so he's not much help.

When the Soul Reapers came to Ichigo's school they found his classroom by going to the source of his Spiritual Pressure.

That's not in the middle of a fight.

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flashback0180

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#87  Edited By flashback0180

@jeepeh:

No, just that sensing his energy mid-illusion doesn't work. Since it never has in-story.

yet there isn't a single proof that says he can create false spiritual energy, never once in his detailed explanation of his power has he said he can negate or manipulate abilities (energy sense) of others

not really piccolo has the durability to tank gokus kamhamaha which is stated to be able to destroy the moon in the daizenshuu. Picclo can causally kill aizen at this point of time, his aoe is continental. are you assuming aizen will chop of his head from the start?

If Yamamoto's bankai (the sun) can't kill him, can moon-level things? And even if it did "completely destroy him". He was completely destroyed by Mugetsu, but he regenerated anyway. Mugetsu cut him in half and then disintegrated him, yet he came back.

what are you talking about when did yamamoto use his bankai on aizen.Yama didn't lay a single finger on aizen the entire battle. are you speculating somehow yamamoto must have used his bankai ,when nothing of the sort has been mentioned or took place off panel ?

First off, lets get things straight,

  • the people who decides the punishment isn't the vice captain , its the court hearing of central 46
  • aizen was directly teleported to central 46 ,where he was processed
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  • yamamoto was still healing even after 10 days,since the incident.

Can't he just sense his Ki?

i don't think this even needs a explanation, its a very common knowledge that z fighters can and always heave hidden their ki lower than their opponent when they start a fight.

Well, he was vaporized. Can you get any more destroyed than vaporized?

lol when exactly was he vaporized ?

He was disintegrated tho. .-.

1

WHEN? you can literally see aizens body falling from the sky.AFTER he tanked the attack. meaning his body was still intact

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2

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see this split here, this was done by ichigos FGT . If his body was disintegrated to a cellular-atomic level that split wouldn't be there when aizen regenerated .

and a multi city blast.

What are you referring to? The Fraggor? The fraggor burnt Dangai Ichigo, who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamamoto, who is essentially the sun. I think that speaks loads of Aizen's DC, not his AoE, because no-one cares about his AoE. The explosion was a friggin confined pillar. Destroying the planet would be bad, you know? No more series.

i was mentioning yamamotos fire which was sealed .

(Also this comment has too much speculation I don't want this to go off topic)

Continent busting? Well the Seireitei is about 1,000 mi wide. And Gremmy's meteor was going to crush it, and Kenpachi obliterated it. Aizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kenpachi. Do I need to bring up the space/time level Kido of his 3-upgrades-prior-self?

how did you scale that out of nothing.FKT kenpachi was using only a fraction of his true power was unlocked.

current aizen is stronger, because his power still kept on growing since the battle.Current Kenpahi has better feats than Monster aizen ever did.

.

By your logic he can regenerate by a universe destroying blast .

Eh. That's a big difference from moon busting. My question still stands btw. Can you get more destroyed than disintegrated? Regardless of how powerful the thing that disintegrated you was? I haven't thought of that much.

as pointed before never happened.

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jeepeh

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@flashback0180:

yet there isn't a single proof that says he can create false spiritual energy, never once in his detailed explanation of his power has he said he can negate or manipulate abilities (energy sense) of others

Quite a few reasons actually, please look below to my reply to prince for more info, I don't want to post the same thing twice in the same post.

what are you talking about when did yamamoto use his bankai on aizen.Yama didn't lay a single finger on aizen the entire battle. are you speculating somehow yamamoto must have used his bankai ,when nothing of the sort has been mentioned or took place off panel ?

No, how much a fool do you think I am. But if his Bankai was capable of killing him, why didn't they let Yamma kill him afterwards? You can't say they didn't want to kill Aizen.

the people who decides the punishment isn't the vice captain ,

Vice captain?

its the court hearing of central 46

So? They couldn't say "YOUR PUNISHMENT IS TO BE BURNED ALIVE BY YAMA-JI" ?

aizen was directly teleported to central 46 ,where he was processed

Same as above.

  • yamamoto was still healing even after 10 days,since the incident.

???? Chapter 423. The exact same chapter when Aizen was sentenced, this takes palce:

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So um, no. Yamma wasn't healing, in fact Ukitake said he was back to his normal self. So there's no reason why Yamma wouldn't be capable of going Bankai on Aizen.

And we already know that Aizen and Ichigo were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamma. Transcendence and all.

lol when exactly was he vaporized ?

In the first page I posted, you see his Body break up, then he's not visible in the next page. It's much clearer in the Anime.

WHEN? you can literally see aizens body falling from the sky.AFTER he tanked the attack. meaning his body was still intact

It falls like 10 seconds AFTER mugetsu cut him. I find it far more likely that his halves healed, fell, then stitched together. Kind of working the damage in reverse if you will, the bisection was the first to take place, so it was the last to be healed. You need to explain why Aizen's body disappeared in the page/scene when Mugetsu hit him if you want to convince me that something else happened.

i was mentioning yamamotos fire which was sealed .

.... That happened before Aizen even began evolving. You're doing it again.

(Also this comment has too much speculation I don't want this to go off topic)

Why is it off-topic? It's debating Aizen's power level.

how did you scale that out of nothing

Scale what? Seireitei? There are multiple calculations that point to it being that wide, between Yoruichi's statement, a statement in Fade to Black (which Kubo was heavily involved in, which lines up with the calcs of Yoruichi's statement)

FKT kenpachi was using only a fraction of his true power was unlocked.

The feat I'm talking about was done by modern Kenpachi, not FKT arc.

current aizen is stronger, because his power still kept on growing since the battle.

I don't see your point, that's what I said.

Current Kenpahi has better feats than Monster aizen ever did.

He has better AoE feats, but Kenpachi was not a transcendent when he destroyed the meteor. Monster Aizen injured Dangai Ichigo, who is a transcendent to a transcendent. So Monster Aizen has the better Attack Potency feat.

as pointed before never happened.

Explained above.

@jeepeh said:

@princearagorn1 said:

Considering we now know that sensing still works, piccolo can sense him anywhere - they always use ki sensing to locate things mid-battle, unlike shinigami.

It only worked once it was INSIDE his body. Also, that wasn't an illusion, who's to say that he would've sensed it correctly if it had been? Heck, how do we know that it wasn't

There's no basis why ki sensing wouldn't work to begin with. We know kyoka suigetsu cannot affect it because it was sensed by yamamoto that reiatsu can still be sensed - and for the simple reason that it is not one of the five senses.

Unlike shinigami, z fighters adapt ki sensing fully in their fighting, gotei 13 failing to do it is no basis for piccolo, or any other competant sensor will not be able to do it.

Aizen's arm wasn't injured in the scenes afterwards.

Regeneration.

Doesn't Tousen fight entirely by sensing people's Reiatsu, since he's blind?

Yes, and kyoka suigetsu is useless on him, so he's not much help.

When the Soul Reapers came to Ichigo's school they found his classroom by going to the source of his Spiritual Pressure.

That's not in the middle of a fight.

You continue to ignore my points.

There are many basis for why it wouldn't work. We DON'T know that, because

1. If it wasn't an illusion, how do we know it wouldn't work? When it's confirmed to be in an illusion, it hasn't happened.

2. How do we know it wasn't an illusion? I don't recall Yamamoto having a stab wound in his stomach after he took off his shirt.

3. Idc that it isn't one of the five senses, it's never worked the way you're saying it'll work.

Unlike shinigami,

May I ask what basis there is for thinking that they don't use it midcombat? Arrancar have pesquisa,

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That last one with Ulquiorra shows that they do use it mid-combat, but that didn't help Hallibel in the slightest, when Aizen attacked her with Hypnosis did it? So I'm sorry. But sensing Aizen's energy mid-illusion to see through it doesn't work.

Regeneration

I suppose that's a possibility. Although how do you explain the lack of a stab wound or blood on Yamma?

No Caption Provided

Yes, and kyoka suigetsu is useless on him, so he's not much help.

That wasn't my point at all. Tousen uses his Reiatsu sense mid-fight, so why couldn't all Shinigami?

That's not in the middle of a fight.

What exactly is the difference?

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flashback0180

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#89  Edited By flashback0180

@jeepeh:

No, how much a fool do you think I am. But if his Bankai was capable of killing him, why didn't they let Yamma kill him afterwards? You can't say they didn't want to kill Aizen.

"why didn't they?"

how the hell will i know , it's plot induced stupidity! or they didn't know the exact potential of the captains bankai were, also since all the captains lost against aizen.

do tell me how can you blindly assume he MUST HAVE used his on aizen when nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned .

the people who decides the punishment isn't the vice captain ,

Vice captain?

captain commander , yamamoto at the end of the day is just a member in the army, he has no say in the decision making process

its the court hearing of central 46

So? They couldn't say "YOUR PUNISHMENT IS TO BE BURNED ALIVE BY YAMA-JI" ?

as pointed by point 1.

aizen was directly teleported to central 46 ,where he was processed

Same as above.

same as above

???? Chapter 423. The exact same chapter when Aizen was sentenced, this takes palce:

what part of "he has regained his stamina" don't you get? that implies he was healing during the 10 day period.

what you fail to realize is yammas bankai is a double edge sword, it has strain on his body.

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.part 2

And we already know that Aizen and Ichigo were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamma. Transcendence and all.

Bollocks, he had more reiatsu that doesn't mean he can ignore any bankais damage, the two thing are not even related, when aizen negates the zanpaktos ability he just raises his reiatsu greater than its wielder .

THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE HAS THE DURABILITY TO TANK THE ATTACK.

by your messed up logic aizen is stronger than death since he negated soifons shikai. plus ,that's a outlier that concept wasn't followed after the arc, by your logic 1 form aizen (not current) is more powerful that yawtch , sprite king, Right hand of god , everyone in else in the later series.which is bull

In the first page I posted, you see his Body break up, then he's not visible in the next page. It's much clearer in the Anime.

"WHEN? you can literally see aizens body falling from the sky.AFTER he tanked the attack. meaning his body was still intact"

It falls like 10 seconds AFTER mugetsu cut him. I find it far more likely that his halves healed, fell, then stitched together. Kind of working the damage in reverse if you will, the bisection was the first to take place, so it was the last to be healed. You need to explain why Aizen's body disappeared in the page/scene when Mugetsu hit him if you want to convince me that something else happened.

1. no that's speculating , all we see is him being engulfed by FGT , there is no logical way for him to have degenerated completely. plus the anime is non canon to being with.

2.so where does it say 10 seconds ? you do realize you are saying he regenerated HIS BODY WITH A CUT

are you seriously trying to convince me that his atoms - cells created a body that has been torn in half from the head to bottom. O_o

clearly caused by ichigos attack
clearly caused by ichigos attack

i was mentioning yamamotos fire which was sealed .

.... That happened before Aizen even began evolving. You're doing it again.


yes and that's perfectly valid to my point, which aizen can't tank piccolos attack. its ridiculous to say that monster Aizens durability is enough to tank piccolos DC. Its like saying his power boost went from multi city level-----> planetoids level.

.do you realize the sheer difference between the two 1,400+ km (average multi city level) ----> 38 million square kilometers

thats just the surface area, the DC needed to destroy sheer volume is leagues above.

how did you scale that out of nothing

Scale what? Seireitei? There are multiple calculations that point to it being that wide, between Yoruichi's statement, a statement in Fade to Black (which Kubo was heavily involved in, which lines up with the calcs of Yoruichi's statement)

FKT kenpachi was using only a fraction of his true power was unlocked.

The feat I'm talking about was done by modern Kenpachi, not FKT arc.

current aizen is stronger, because his power still kept on growing since the battle.

I don't see your point, that's what I said.

Current Kenpahi has better feats than Monster aizen ever did.

He has better AoE feats, but Kenpachi was not a transcendent when he destroyed the meteor. Monster Aizen injured Dangai Ichigo, who is a transcendent to a transcendent. So Monster Aizen has the better Attack Potency feat.

no i was clearly mentioning how you scaled monster aizen above kenpachi . Kenpachi has more hype aizen did back then, he destroyed it with most of his power still sealed by his eye patch.

you are just scaling everyoneincluding yawtchand post power up - to not even close to monster aizens power.BECAUSE their ENERGY can be sensed.+explained in part 2

^ THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SPECULATING IS .

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#90  Edited By PrinceAragorn1

@jeepeh:

Alright, let's keep it plain and simple - Kyoka suigetsu affects five senses. Ki isn't one of them. You quite literally have no basis to say it'll be affected.

So the shinigami were not able to sense him - they have no feats of fighting anyone that their normal senses cannot detect via sheer sensing, dragonball characters however, do it for a living.

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jeepeh

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#91  Edited By jeepeh

@flashback0180:

how the hell will i know , it's plot induced stupidity!

Calm down please.

or they didn't know the exact potential of the captains bankai were

They knew the potential of Kenpachi, they were scared ****less to let Kyoraku train him. And they don't need to know his potential, they need to know what he's capable of NOW. Yamamoto could've easily done something.

do tell me how can you blindly assume he MUST HAVE used his on aizen when nothing of the sort has ever been mentioned .

.... Do you read my replies? Because you seem to keep ignoring things.

I'M NOT SAYING HE USED IT ON AIZEN. I'M SAYING HE DIDN'T WHEN THERE WAS NO DANGER OR REASON NOT TO AFTER THE BATTLE, AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.

yamamoto at the end of the day is just a member in the army, he has no say in the decision making process

When did I say he did? And he was in total control up to that point in time after Central 46 was killed. They must've been reinstated during the 10 days, during which Yamma could've done whatever he wanted.

what part of "he has regained his stamina" don't you get? that implies he was healing during the 10 day period.

Tone down the condescending attitude please. That scene is happening the exact same time that Aizen is being sentenced. Yamma's totally fine, he's perfectly capable of going Bankai on Aizen. They made Aizen sit around for 10 days before being sentenced, They're surely capable of waiting for/letting Yamma kill him if they wanted.

what you fail to realize is yammas bankai is a double edge sword, it has strain on his body.

You mean like Isshin's? That's not the vibe I got at all. If he uses it too long, it will kill him, but that's only because of the heat. It'll do the same thing to Soul Society. He was perfectly capable of going Bankai for a split second to make a quick Sword swing on Aizen.

Bollocks, he had more reiatsu that doesn't mean he can ignore any bankais damage,

May have a point, but only on that one fact. The immortality reason is till a legitimate claim. Well, Yamma's fire is made from his Reiatsu. As Hashwalth noted. A battle between Shinigami is a battle of Reiatsu. As a battle between DBZ characters depends on Ki levels, Beerus has god ki, thus he is > normal characters in every way, correct?

the two thing are not even related, when aizen negates the zanpaktos ability he just raises his reiatsu greater than its wielder .

I assume you're speaking of Suzumebachi. That's a hax ability, not really the same thing thing as Yamma's fire.

Are you telling me that you believe Yamamoto is capable of defeating Ichigo and Aizen?

by your messed up logic aizen is stronger than death since he negated soifons shikai.

Except that was an illusion, and even if it wasn't, Soi Fon's Shikai doesn't have anything to do with death. The name is "death in two strikes" IIRC, but that means nothing. You're making it sound like Marvel's death is incapable of killing him or something.

1. no that's speculating , all we see is him being engulfed by FGT , there is no logical way for him to have degenerated completely. plus the anime is non canon to being with.

Engulfed? Then his entire body would be damaged anyway and your own "proof" for your opinion is destroyed anyway. Mugetsu's a thin attack.

2.so where does it say 10 seconds ? you do realize you are saying he regenerated HIS BODY WITH A CUT

Guessing, There was enough time for Mugetsu to dissipate, Ichigo to float down, land, and then his outfit to crack away. Could've been more than 10 seconds tbh. Regardless of the time frame, it wouldn't have taken Aizen's body that long to fall

are you seriously trying to convince me that his atoms - cells created a body that has been torn in half from the head to bottom. O_o

As I said before, worked the damage in reverse. The cut was the first and largest part, so it was the last to be healed. Who said he had to be healed all at once?

yes and that's perfectly valid to my point, which aizen can't tank piccolos attack. its ridiculous to say that monster Aizens durability is enough to tank piccolos DC. Its like saying his power boost went from multi city level-----> planetoids level.

Wait, when was Aizen worried about the Multi-City level thing again? He seemed quite confident, he mentioned many times larger than the city would be vaporized. But he didn't say "Oh hey, you just saved your enemy, idiot" . Aizen would've survived, even Yamma survived.

And why is that impossible? Gurren Lagann went from OP transformer to Multiversal deity robot within a few episodes. ~_~ There's no rule against how OP you get how quickly.

Aizen was base, then he upgraded beyond his Shinigami self, then he transcended, then his transformation completed, then he evolved to Butterflaizen, then he evolved to Monster Aizen to match Ichigo, then he evolved to match FGT, then he upgraded again in Muken. That's 6. Gurren Lagann went from Transformer to Multiversal in only 3 upgrades. "That's too much of an upgrade!" is no excuse.

no i was clearly mentioning how you scaled monster aizen above kenpachi . Kenpachi has more hype aizen did back then, he destroyed it with most of his power still sealed by his eye patch.

Kenpachi? More hyped than Aizen? O.o lolwut

The fact that Kenpachi's power is still sealed is irrelevant. The feat was done with the seals on, and with the seals on, he's not a transcendent. If he can become a transcendent without the seals (which I believe he can) doesn't matter, because the continent busting was done while sealed, and that's all I need.

you are just scaling everyoneincluding yawtchand post power up - to not even close to monster aizens power.BECAUSE their ENERGY can be sensed.+explained in part 2

You gave the perfect wording there, "Aizen's POWER LEVEL". His power level, not his hax abilities.

Rukia's absolute 0 would be capable of killing a transcendent.... because it's absolute 0, and is pretty much infinitely cold.

Could Yamma's fire kill a transcendent? .... Idk. Maybe, maybe not. But it can't kill Aizen due to his immortality.

Rukia, Renji, Byakuya, and Kenpachi couldn't be sensed (likely Ichigo as well). But Kenpachi lowered his power for the fight with Gremmy. So even if destroying the meteor isn't his limit, it was done by him while not being transcendent. Which means that any transcendent should be capable of something similar or more.

Oh, and Juha can't be scaled via transcendence, Quincies don't emit Reiatsu to be felt. I bet Juha's somewhere near, maybe above, Aizen power level-wise after opening his eyes. Especially now that he just done absorbed the Soul King.

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh:

Alright, let's keep it plain and simple - Kyoka suigetsu affects five senses. Ki isn't one of them. You quite literally have no basis to say it'll be affected.

So the shinigami were not able to sense him - they have no feats of fighting anyone that their normal senses cannot detect via sheer sensing, dragonball characters however, do it for a living.

No basis... except all the reasons I just gave you that you totally ignored.

Your second sentence didn't make sense, can you re-word it? Arrancars are shown to sense energy mid-fight. Yet Hallibel didn't see through Aizen's illusions. That one scene alone is enough to shut down your theory.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@jeepeh said:

No basis... except all the reasons I just gave you that you totally ignored.

Aizen doesn't have anything that blocks sixth sense in the first place.

Your second sentence didn't make sense, can you re-word it? Arrancars are shown to sense energy mid-fight. Yet Hallibel didn't see through Aizen's illusions. That one scene alone is enough to shut down your theory.

Ny all means, show me anyone in bleach fighting an enemy their senses cannot perceive on sheer sensing.

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Aizen wins no matter the argument made by people

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RandomSid82

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Aizen wins no matter the argument made by people

That's a rather close-minded view. The entire point of a debate is to show arguments for your side winning. If you say the other side regardless of the arguments then you are showing a very narrow-minded view. Typically that is called blind fanboyism.

That being said, if anything, this has made me interested in at least watching the Bleach anime(can't really do the manga cause I have a hard time finding any manga).

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@kirbstomp said:

Aizen wins no matter the argument made by people

That's a rather close-minded view. The entire point of a debate is to show arguments for your side winning. If you say the other side regardless of the arguments then you are showing a very narrow-minded view. Typically that is called blind fanboyism.

That being said, if anything, this has made me interested in at least watching the Bleach anime(can't really do the manga cause I have a hard time finding any manga).

Because for some reason Dbz needs to always be more powerful than Bleach and Naruto despite the recent powerups and such whenever there is dbz vs a hst characters people already have close minded opinions

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98115

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@jeepeh:

Alright, let's keep it plain and simple - Kyoka suigetsu affects five senses. Ki isn't one of them. You quite literally have no basis to say it'll be affected.

So the shinigami were not able to sense him - they have no feats of fighting anyone that their normal senses cannot detect via sheer sensing, dragonball characters however, do it for a living.

dont they often sense reiatsu & gauge the enemy's strength by measuring it.

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Aizen can't be Killed but there's no way in hell Aizen is laying a single finger on Piccolo. Aizen gets thrown around like a Rag-Doll.

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#98  Edited By PrinceAragorn1
@98115 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@jeepeh:

Alright, let's keep it plain and simple - Kyoka suigetsu affects five senses. Ki isn't one of them. You quite literally have no basis to say it'll be affected.

So the shinigami were not able to sense him - they have no feats of fighting anyone that their normal senses cannot detect via sheer sensing, dragonball characters however, do it for a living.

dont they often sense reiatsu & gauge the enemy's strength by measuring it.

As far as I know, not in the middle of fight, nor is it something they continuously rely on, in order to react.

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#99  Edited By RandomSid82

@randomsid said:

@kirbstomp said:

Aizen wins no matter the argument made by people

That's a rather close-minded view. The entire point of a debate is to show arguments for your side winning. If you say the other side regardless of the arguments then you are showing a very narrow-minded view. Typically that is called blind fanboyism.

That being said, if anything, this has made me interested in at least watching the Bleach anime(can't really do the manga cause I have a hard time finding any manga).

Because for some reason Dbz needs to always be more powerful than Bleach and Naruto despite the recent powerups and such whenever there is dbz vs a hst characters people already have close minded opinions

Not really. I love DBZ and know they are extremely powerful, but I can be convinced that someone else might beat them. Being so close-minded that you can't be convinced of something that you don't already believe basically means you shouldn't be on a debate forum at all.

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#100  Edited By Kirbstomp

Not really. I love DBZ and know they are extremely powerful, but I can be convinced that someone else might beat them. Being so close-minded that you can't be convinced of something that you don't already believe basically means you shouldn't be on a debate forum at all.

Exactly, it seems people on here got Kaguya fix'd at planet level for some odd reason since when did time-spaces which can arguably be universes are considered planets, planet don't have their own time and space. Planets are made up of 5 elements in Naruto if you think about it a planet would have all 5 elements which is why the Rinnegan user can perform Chibaku tensei however Yin, Yang, and Yin-Yang release are on a completely different level. Yin is spiritual, conceptual, etc while Yang is the physical, material, tangible, etc. and together they can create something such as existence.

But enough of that I can just post one scan showing that Kaguya is at least star level even though the manga suggest that she's way beyond that.

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