#1 Posted by RebornAkuma (151 posts) - - Show Bio

ok so I wanted to learn more about Bleach, cause I lost interest in manga/anime. This guy seems pretty cool.

-No prep

-Takes place in an unpopulated Colosseum

-Win by Death, K.O, no BFR

-No form changing if there is any

#2 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebornakuma: Aizen God stomps here. He can completely control someone's perception of reality. E.G. He made everyone in soul society believe he was dead, and his false body, one that didn't ever even exist, pass a full Autopsy. The thing is, that's not even close to his full power, and it's super easy to pull off. If anyone sees his sword, they are immediately effected by it.

Not only that, he's at least hypersonic in movement and combat speeds. All of this is not even counting the Hogyoku, which grants him even more absurd powers.

He can also use extremely high level Kido (spells) with ease.

All of that, and we still haven't seen his bankai. Doom has no chance without prep.

#3 Posted by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Doom

His a far better villan than Aizen could ever hope to be

@rebornakuma: Aizen God stomps here. He can completely control someone's perception of reality. E.G. He made everyone in soul society believe he was dead, and his false body, one that didn't ever even exist, pass a full Autopsy. The thing is, that's not even close to his full power, and it's super easy to pull off. If anyone sees his sword, they are immediately effected by it.

Not only that, he's at least hypersonic in movement and combat speeds. All of this is not even counting the Hogyoku, which grants him even more absurd powers.

He can also use extremely high level Kido (spells) with ease.

All of that, and we still haven't seen his bankai. Doom has no chance without prep.

Your overrating Aizen he can't even beat Thor.

#4 Posted by Dredeuced (6208 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin said:

I say Doom

His a far better villan than Aizen could ever hope to be

@dratini1331 said:

@rebornakuma: Aizen God stomps here. He can completely control someone's perception of reality. E.G. He made everyone in soul society believe he was dead, and his false body, one that didn't ever even exist, pass a full Autopsy. The thing is, that's not even close to his full power, and it's super easy to pull off. If anyone sees his sword, they are immediately effected by it.

Not only that, he's at least hypersonic in movement and combat speeds. All of this is not even counting the Hogyoku, which grants him even more absurd powers.

He can also use extremely high level Kido (spells) with ease.

All of that, and we still haven't seen his bankai. Doom has no chance without prep.

Your overrating Aizen he can't even beat Thor.

However true this may be, I would not put money on Doom if he were fighting Thor without prep, either. How powerful Thor is is irrelevant to this fight.

#5 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin: How is thor relevant? I'd pick him way the heck over doom in any random encounter ever anyways. Doom gets just crazy face roll'd here, no question. Aizen is faster, stronger, and substantially more powerful. Doom's only edge is his brain, and that can be fooled by Aizen, especially with the Hogyoku.

Doom would be dead before he could even move. End of story.

#6 Posted by crest (270 posts) - - Show Bio

doom dosnt win this but its not a complete stomp here. Dooms intelligence makes him one of the harder chars to change his perception, one mistake and doom will realize hes being messed with

Yes Aizen has high lvl magic but doom does aswell, speed is a problem for doom but he has tangled with very fast foes before and held his own, Also i do not believe aizen can one shot him

The sword is probably his biggest advantage, in the end yes doom losses but i think we would get to see aiezens bankai by the end of the fight

#7 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder if Doom could power steal from Aizen...hmmm...

#8 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: With prep, I'd definitely say yes. It seems no harder than taking Galactus' powers, as a matter of fact it should be easier. Just remove the sword and the Hogyoku, and that should basically do it.

#9 Posted by RebornAkuma (151 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom stomps. Aizen can't get past his forcefields nor can his illusions affect Doom thanks to his willpower (most in the Marvel Universe). Doom has beaten Thor no prep with a doombot and has taken on entire Avenger team with ease. This is actually spite.

#11 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom stomps. Aizen can't get past his forcefields nor can his illusions affect Doom thanks to his willpower (most in the Marvel Universe). Doom has beaten Thor no prep with a doombot and has taken on entire Avenger team with ease. This is actually spite.

Okay, no. This is complete Bull @#$%. Never, not even once ever, has "Willpower" been a factor in the illusions of Bleach, or most of Non-Western Comics. There's no reason to assume having lots of willpower will help him in anyway get by the illusions. That's actually just some random nonsense that people keep making up.

I've seen it all over. "Willpower saves from TP!" "Willpower gets you by [insert random power here]!" No. No it F@#$%ing doesn't. Doom can do jack all here, and there's absolutely no reason to believe he can break the illusions, regardless of whether or not he has willpower, he's going to get merced and he won't break the illusions.

Furthermore, How is he even going to touch Aizen? Aizen has a MASSIVE speed advantage, which he uses to great effect. The only reason people pick Doom is because they like him more, and more power to him for that. However, there's no reason to believe doom can do anything against Aizen. The absolute BEST Doom can do is tie. He can't hurt Aizen, and Aizen can most certainly screw him up.

#12 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

Doom stomps. Aizen can't get past his forcefields nor can his illusions affect Doom thanks to his willpower (most in the Marvel Universe). Doom has beaten Thor no prep with a doombot and has taken on entire Avenger team with ease. This is actually spite.

Okay, no. This is complete Bull @#$%. Never, not even once ever, has "Willpower" been a factor in the illusions of Bleach, or most of Non-Western Comics. There's no reason to assume having lots of willpower will help him in anyway get by the illusions. That's actually just some random nonsense that people keep making up.

I've seen it all over. "Willpower saves from TP!" "Willpower gets you by [insert random power here]!" No. No it F@#$%ing doesn't. Doom can do jack all here, and there's absolutely no reason to believe he can break the illusions, regardless of whether or not he has willpower, he's going to get merced and he won't break the illusions.

Furthermore, How is he even going to touch Aizen? Aizen has a MASSIVE speed advantage, which he uses to great effect. The only reason people pick Doom is because they like him more, and more power to him for that. However, there's no reason to believe doom can do anything against Aizen. The absolute BEST Doom can do is tie. He can't hurt Aizen, and Aizen can most certainly screw him up.

Doom resisted Emma's Frost Tp with ease due to willpower. Aizen has no speed advantage because of automatic forcefields and Doom can hurt him same way he hurt Thor and other planet+ durability level people. Even better he can BFR him through time and/or space. Aizen can't win can't hurt Doom can't withstand his attacks.

#13 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom resisted Emma's Frost Tp with ease due to willpower. Aizen has no speed advantage because of automatic forcefields and Doom can hurt him same way he hurt Thor and other planet+ durability level people. Even better he can BFR him through time and/or space. Aizen can't win can't hurt Doom can't withstand his attacks.

So let me get this straight. I can put up any comic character who has an absolutely MASSIVE speed edge, and Doom would in fact, get lolerifically shit stomped. Put up an Anime character, he wins hands down, because F@#$ anime? Sounds about right.

BFR? Seriously? Aizen BFRs him to Heuco Mundo or soul society. Both can in fact do that, and once again, Aizen is Exponentially faster.

Furthermore:

Doom resisted Emma's Frost Tp with ease due to willpower.

Never, not even once ever, has "Willpower" been a factor in the illusions of Bleach, or most of Non-Western Comics. There's no reason to assume having lots of willpower will help him in anyway get by the illusions. That's actually just some random nonsense that people keep making up.

As I've already said, THERE IS NO REASON, NONE, TO BELIEVE THAT MATTERS IN EVEN THE SLIGHTEST!!!!

What the ever loving hell? Willpower is completely worthless against these illusions. Never, not even once, has willpower been brought up as something that could overcome them. Why should it now mean jack? Just because that's how it works in Marvel? It's something entirely different than what he's experienced in marvel. It's not even Telepathy, but something entirely different.

There's no reason, none at all, to believe Doom would see through the illusions.

#14 Posted by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: God you underestimate Doom to much. Doom has the ability to make up plans and predictions extremely fast accurately. Aizen won't be able to control Doom for his armor prevents it. Doom has dealt with the devil what the hell is Aizen going to do?! With all his experience I am pretty sure Doom can take this. I heard many people say he is the most powerful sorcerer after Strange.

Doom is not one of those characters who loses control of himself easily he battles with a calm and in character manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9zZQWE7eUg

#15 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

Doom resisted Emma's Frost Tp with ease due to willpower. Aizen has no speed advantage because of automatic forcefields and Doom can hurt him same way he hurt Thor and other planet+ durability level people. Even better he can BFR him through time and/or space. Aizen can't win can't hurt Doom can't withstand his attacks.

So let me get this straight. I can put up any comic character who has an absolutely MASSIVE speed edge, and Doom would in fact, get lolerifically shit stomped. Put up an Anime character, he wins hands down, because F@#$ anime? Sounds about right.

BFR? Seriously? Aizen BFRs him to Heuco Mundo or soul society. Both can in fact do that, and once again, Aizen is Exponentially faster.

Furthermore:

Doom resisted Emma's Frost Tp with ease due to willpower.

Never, not even once ever, has "Willpower" been a factor in the illusions of Bleach, or most of Non-Western Comics. There's no reason to assume having lots of willpower will help him in anyway get by the illusions. That's actually just some random nonsense that people keep making up.

As I've already said, THERE IS NO REASON, NONE, TO BELIEVE THAT MATTERS IN EVEN THE SLIGHTEST!!!!

What the ever loving hell? Willpower is completely worthless against these illusions. Never, not even once, has willpower been brought up as something that could overcome them. Why should it now mean jack? Just because that's how it works in Marvel? It's something entirely different than what he's experienced in marvel. It's not even Telepathy, but something entirely different.

There's no reason, none at all, to believe Doom would see through the illusions.

No Doom would beat a comic character with a massive speed edge as well (name them, Flash, Supes, Surfer (who he's easily defeated)) Doom has auto shields and forcefields. I like anime better, it's just Doom has these abilities. And you can't BFR someone who can teleport and manipulate time at will. Like Doom can.

And yes, if it works on telepathy and matter manipulation, and fighting Galactus in Secret Wars (which was shown to warp your perception of everything), then it works on illusions. It's essentially a form of telepathy. Willpower is always, always used to break illusions in any form of media. That's common knowledge. Don't make me post scans on what Doom has in his arsenal and what his shields have done.

#16 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: With prep, I'd definitely say yes. It seems no harder than taking Galactus' powers, as a matter of fact it should be easier. Just remove the sword and the Hogyoku, and that should basically do it.

He wouldn't need prep to steal people's powers. He has a built-in power stealing device :P

He has used it on Cosmic Hulk and Nightmare.

#17 Posted by Cooldes (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: sorry to break it to you, but willpower isn't freeing you from aizen's illusions. They really Aren't even Illusions, His Zanpakto has the ability of Complete Control of any and all 5 of your senses. Aizen has stated himself that there is no way to get around it, Even if you know you're being controlled, you can't stop it. The only way to not get screwed over by it, is by not looking at his Zanpakto. But once you've seen his zanpakto once, he can actively use it on you.

Aizen is also Stonger and Faster.

This Is a HuecoMundoStomp

#18 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: Doesn't that only do magic and cosmic though? He'd have to at least study the properties for a little while and likely add some new converter to the device. Also, that's counted as Standard now?

#19 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@darkraiden: sorry to break it to you, but willpower isn't freeing you from aizen's illusions. They really Aren't even Illusions, His Zanpakto has the ability of Complete Control of any and all 5 of your senses. Aizen has stated himself that there is no way to get around it, Even if you know you're being controlled, you can't stop it. The only way to not get screwed over by it, is by not looking at his Zanpakto. But once you've seen his zanpakto once, he can actively use it on you.

Aizen is also Stonger and Faster.

This Is a HuecoMundoStomp

Yes because when Aizen states something it must be true. Yeah no. Willpower's very definition entails breaking out of illusions, and having "complete control" of your 5 senses is still just an illusion that Doom would power out of. If he can resist reality manipulation through will, he can resist a weak illusion from Aizen. And funny enough Aizen still can't get past his forcefields should he somehow trap Doom in his illusions. After that Doom can just AoE attack and kill him regardless (since he would realize the illusion in seconds with his intellect). Until you can provide proof that willpower specifically doesn't break you from his illusions from someone besides him or even a person caught it in, then maybe. And that's maybe. Doom resists omnipotence with will, illusions are nothing.

#20 Posted by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes: I do not give a crap of his Zampukto shit that only work on people in Bleach. There is nothing that suggests it would get past Dooms armour. Also if you had not realized Doom prepares for the worst his armour was crafted by monks in Tibet and enhanced by magic. It holds The Cross of Jesus and it as so much gadgets that Aizen has never dealt with before. Doom constantly up grades his armoury adding in admantanium and always enhancing it with magic. Aizen would be lucky to make a scratch.

Aizen has nothing to compare to Doom with. His feats? His tech? His prep? His magic? Nothing. Doom is far more badass than Aizen could ever hope to be.

#21 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Saying Willpower must do it here because it did it elsewhere is a logical fallacy.

YOUmust provide evidence that willpower can break his illusions. His illusions not being broken by willpower, or not having feats against willpower, is perfectly consistent with it not effecting his ability. Marvel != other universes. Willpower is NOT an out for many things, that's just some massive logical leap.

Also, your using "by definition" a lot, and taking it for something that it really doesn't mean. For example, If I drug a normal person with a couple pounds of sedative, and he passes out, we don't assume someone with stronger willpower could resist it, or that the person that passed out has lesser willpower. Willpower's definition is about self-motivation and self-control of impulses more so than having complete body domination. This should be obvious considering we don't have complete body domination.

@xxgin: So, you're pretty much just clueless on anything about Aizen, because Anime should always lose to comics? Once again, sounds about right.

#22 Posted by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331:

Dude constantly people try to make anime equal to comic it is a shame. Lets take superman vs goku for example. Everyone says it is a legendary battle but seriously? Your taking the strongest being from one universe and comparing him to the one of the weakest beings from another universe. Sadly for you anime fans Goku still loses against superman. Your basically making fun of anime when Goku beats superman anime fans are so happy. Ohh hooray the strongest being in your verse beat one of the weakest beings in our verse congrats.

I have watched all of bleach Aizen is seriously no big deal to someone like Doom. You really underestimate Doom. Your taking real life stuff like drugs and whats on wiki to prove comics wrong?! Like how about you explain how superman can fly and shoot heat vision now using science and wiki. Come on tell us all about it.

#23 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Saying Willpower must do it here because it did it elsewhere is a logical fallacy.

YOUmust provide evidence that willpower can break his illusions. His illusions not being broken by willpower, or not having feats against willpower, is perfectly consistent with it not effecting his ability. Marvel != other universes. Willpower is NOT an out for many things, that's just some massive logical leap.

Also, your using "by definition" a lot, and taking it for something that it really doesn't mean. For example, If I drug a normal person with a couple pounds of sedative, and he passes out, we don't assume someone with stronger willpower could resist it, or that the person that passed out has lesser willpower. Willpower's definition is about self-motivation and self-control of impulses more so than having complete body domination. This should be obvious considering we don't have complete body domination.

@xxgin: So, you're pretty much just clueless on anything about Aizen, because Anime should always lose to comics? Once again, sounds about right.

Really now?

willpower [ˈwɪlˌpaʊə]

n

1. the ability to control oneself and determine one's actions

2. firmness of will

Seems to counter illusions to me. And yes, in Marvel. the way to counter illusions is having psychic defenses and Willpower. This is in an equalized universe where abilities transfer so it would work the same. If not, no reiatsu = no illusions = Doom stomps regardless. I would say reiatsu crush but forcefields and Doom's done battle with Mephisto so....yeah. Willpower is Doom's defense against illusions in his world, why would it not be used here?

#24 Posted by Cooldes (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin: This is what we like to call bias.

I don't know if you watched the same bleach i did, but Ichigo's dad flicked aizen and Busted Buildings. with a flick. He's easily a city buster, but him, AND Urahara, AND Yuroichi couldn't even touch Aizen.

Aizen is so Absurdly powerful that when he's near a human, They cease to exist. not die, but lose their very being of existence.

Gin used his zanpakto to destroy Aizen on a cellular level. He destroyed Every Single Cell in Aizen's body. And do you remember what happened? Aizen said "lolnope" and instahealed AND killed gin all within the same second.

Aizen is Massively Hypersonic+

now that i think of it, the first three espada were city busting, and he Toyed around with them in base, without The Hogyoku. He was toying with the visard too. Aizen Godstomps here. no debate

#25 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@xxgin: This is what we like to call bias.

I don't know if you watched the same bleach i did, but Ichigo's dad flicked aizen and Busted Buildings. with a flick. He's easily a city buster, but him, AND Urahara, AND Yuroichi couldn't even touch Aizen.

Aizen is so Absurdly powerful that when he's near a human, They cease to exist. not die, but lose their very being of existence.

Gin used his zanpakto to destroy Aizen on a cellular level. He destroyed Every Single Cell in Aizen's body. And do you remember what happened? Aizen said "lolnope" and instahealed AND killed gin all within the same second.

Aizen is Massively Hypersonic+

now that i think of it, the first three espada were city busting, and he Toyed around with them in base, without The Hogyoku. He was toying with the visard too. Aizen Godstomps here. no debate

You realize Hulk is a mountain-planet buster, as is Thor and Surfer and Mephisto, and Dr. Strange, and the Avengers, and Fantastic 4, and Beyonder, and Galactus, and more that Doom has beaten right?City busting is absolutely nothing to Doom. And most of them are also FTL and at least Hypersonic+.

#26 Edited by Cooldes (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: But HOW IS DOOM GOING TO WIN??!

Aizens Durability is Outrageous! And he Came back from having every one of his cells destroyed! that means there was nothing to heal from, and ge STILL survived it, with no difficulty and within the same second killed Gin.

Doom is Screwed here.

ps sentry got through Dooms shields just fine

#27 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin said:

@dratini1331:

Dude constantly people try to make anime equal to comic it is a shame. Lets take superman vs goku for example. Everyone says it is a legendary battle but seriously? Your taking the strongest being from one universe and comparing him to the one of the weakest beings from another universe. Sadly for you anime fans Goku still loses against superman. Your basically making fun of anime when Goku beats superman anime fans are so happy. Ohh hooray the strongest being in your verse beat one of the weakest beings in our verse congrats.

I have watched all of bleach Aizen is seriously no big deal to someone like Doom. You really underestimate Doom. Your taking real life stuff like drugs and whats on wiki to prove comics wrong?! Like how about you explain how superman can fly and shoot heat vision now using science and wiki. Come on tell us all about it.

And there are most definitely times when comics should get demolished, but people refuse to accept it because they have to have Comics > all Anime for the sole reason of fanboy wanking.

You didn't even read the Wikis, did you? They have absolutely nothing to do with the Comic characters, they're discussing logical fallacies. It's about how saying "Willpower breaks all forms of TP!" is a totally wrong statement, and how it should never be considered credible.

The drug anecdote is discussing why saying "By definition" doesn't make sense for deferring to whether Willpower can break illusions.

Aizen easily outclasses a huge percentage of characters doom has faced up against. Granted, Doom is near god-like with prep. Had he been given any prep, I'd side with him immediately. However, this is an entirely random encounter. Doom has no way of actually causing harm to Aizen unless you want to play the BFR game, and Aizen is faster, so he wins that contest. "

What can doom seriously do? He gets outclassed in almost every category with the exception of autoshielding. Unless Doom is now packing nuclear ordinance as "Standard Gear" he's not doing jack to aizen. "Omnidirectional blast!" And Aizen can materialize objects inside the shield. Doom has to see through the illusions, and then hit Aizen, and It's not like the Illusions go away or are easy to see through.

The illusions have passed full autopsy inspections, kept the most powerful beings in bleach at his mercy, and made Juha Bach believe that 3 Hours was less than 5 minutes. Aizen just has to get a single lucky shot of on Doom and it's game over. If Doom even looks at him, it's basically game over.

#28 Edited by Cooldes (4232 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Aizen doesn't use Rietsu to control people.

His zanpakto Has complete control over each of the five senses. and willpower doesn't give you resistance to it. Nowhere in the Bleach manga does it say willpower lets you overcome Aizens Shiki. But it does say that you can't escape it, and even if you're aware that you're in it, there is still nothing you can do about it.

#29 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331 said:

@darkraiden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Saying Willpower must do it here because it did it elsewhere is a logical fallacy.

YOUmust provide evidence that willpower can break his illusions. His illusions not being broken by willpower, or not having feats against willpower, is perfectly consistent with it not effecting his ability. Marvel != other universes. Willpower is NOT an out for many things, that's just some massive logical leap.

Also, your using "by definition" a lot, and taking it for something that it really doesn't mean. For example, If I drug a normal person with a couple pounds of sedative, and he passes out, we don't assume someone with stronger willpower could resist it, or that the person that passed out has lesser willpower. Willpower's definition is about self-motivation and self-control of impulses more so than having complete body domination. This should be obvious considering we don't have complete body domination.

@xxgin: So, you're pretty much just clueless on anything about Aizen, because Anime should always lose to comics? Once again, sounds about right.

Really now?

willpower [ˈwɪlˌpaʊə]

n

1. the ability to control oneself and determine one's actions

2. firmness of will

Seems to counter illusions to me. And yes, in Marvel. the way to counter illusions is having psychic defenses and Willpower. This is in an equalized universe where abilities transfer so it would work the same. If not, no reiatsu = no illusions = Doom stomps regardless. I would say reiatsu crush but forcefields and Doom's done battle with Mephisto so....yeah. Willpower is Doom's defense against illusions in his world, why would it not be used here?

If we are including random Reiatsu buffs this is stupid because Aizen would be invincible and Invisible since Doom has no reiatsu, and that would be super lame.

Once again, That's taking the definition super far. If I drugged the crap out of you with something, regardless of willpower, you're taking a nap. Also, these aren't normal illusions either. They aren't anything like the ones in marvel, and Doom would have no experience against them. They aren't even mental in nature, so there's not really much of a logical comparison to draw here. Also, are you now implying that his willpower is far superior to any Bleach Character? That no bleach character has even the slightest amount of willpower, and that Aizen would be screwed if he ever fought someone with real willpower? It's not just that his illusion have never had ways out, it's that no one who doesn't have a similar power has ever broken them. Doom would HAVE to have someway to break them that's more than just "willpower".

Even assuming that he could break them, Doom can't hurt Aizen. At best, this is a stalemate for doom, at worst, Doom gets stomped. However, unless he now packs some Nukes as Standard gear, he can't win.

#30 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: Doesn't that only do magic and cosmic though? He'd have to at least study the properties for a little while and likely add some new converter to the device. Also, that's counted as Standard now?

I don't see why he would need to calibrate it for much. He has even siphoned people's psionic energy before without an issue. I think it's a matter of just turning on the device really. But Aizen is ridiculously fast and that damn plot device (i.e. Hogokyu) would prove probably detrimental for Doom.

#31 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331 said:

@omgomgwtfwtf: Doesn't that only do magic and cosmic though? He'd have to at least study the properties for a little while and likely add some new converter to the device. Also, that's counted as Standard now?

I don't see why he would need to calibrate it for much. He has even siphoned people's psionic energy before without an issue. I think it's a matter of just turning on the device really. But Aizen is ridiculously fast and that damn plot device (i.e. Hogokyu) would prove probably detrimental for Doom.

trololololo all hail the MacGuffin Orb of Destiny.

#32 Edited by Jgames (2359 posts) - - Show Bio

Only way to not get affected by Aizen Zanpakto is by touching his sword before it activate, which I don't see Doom doing unless he have a six sense that he an rely on, either way Aizen still stomp.

#33 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7125 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@darkraiden: But HOW IS DOOM GOING TO WIN??!

Aizens Durability is Outrageous! And he Came back from having every one of his cells destroyed! that means there was nothing to heal from, and ge STILL survived it, with no difficulty and within the same second killed Gin.

Doom is Screwed here.

ps sentry got through Dooms shields just fine

@cooldes said:

@darkraiden: Aizen doesn't use Rietsu to control people.

His zanpakto Has complete control over each of the five senses. and willpower doesn't give you resistance to it. Nowhere in the Bleach manga does it say willpower lets you overcome Aizens Shiki. But it does say that you can't escape it, and even if you're aware that you're in it, there is still nothing you can do about it.

That's a NLF and is instantly disregarded. You know that. And Sentry got through via PIS and the fact that Sentry is as strong as plot. One moment Thor murks him, the next he's destroying Asgard, then Doom handles him and blinds him easily, and then He gets through his forcefield like nothing. Going by consistent showings of the forcefield, it was PIS.

How does he win?

Brain Scrambler

Turns him to chrome

World Ender

Trap him in a mystic cage

Strength Sapper

Inhibitor Ray

Time Stop

Time shift bomb

Anti-Matter gun

500,000 Megavolts if Aizen gets close

Hypnotism Ray

Electroparalyzer that stuns even THOR

Sleeping Gas

Offensive Forcefields
Image Projector to trick Aizen into attacking a fake

Create a vortex
Neural Disruptor

He has many options and most of them built into his suit. While Aizen sadly has 0 options to hurt him or pierce his forcefields.

#35 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: It's not No limits, it's just that Doom has no defense against it. I'm quite tired of people defaulting to saying "No limits Fallacy!" Whenever people present perfectly acceptable ideas. What's keeping Doom from being ensnared? How is Doom going to keep up with him?

PS- dunno about you, but I consider "prep" synonymous with PIS a lot of the time, especially with characters like Aizen or the Doctor who pull things out of nowhere. Sentry does totally operate off WIS and PIS though XD. thoughts?

#36 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: It's not No limits, it's just that Doom has no defense against it. I'm quite tired of people defaulting to saying "No limits Fallacy!" Whenever people present perfectly acceptable ideas. What's keeping Doom from being ensnared? How is Doom going to keep up with him?

PS- dunno about you, but I consider "prep" synonymous with PIS a lot of the time, especially with characters like Aizen or the Doctor who pull things out of nowhere. Sentry does totally operate off WIS and PIS though XD. thoughts?

Doom has defense against it though. It's messing with the brain, the mind same as Purple Man and Emma Frost, and he resisted both perfectly. And Doom can mess with time as shown above, and Aizen can't break his forcefields. That alone allows him to beat Aizen. Time stop +anti-matter = auto win.

#37 Edited by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: SO time stopping is now standard gear for doom? That and Anti-matter are just things he has on him every time he goes into a fight? Seems legit.

Notifications are fixed wOOt!

#38 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: SO time stopping is now standard gear for doom? That and Anti-matter are just things he has on him every time he goes into a fight? Seems legit.

Notifications are fixed wOOt!

Honestly yeah, it's built in to his suit. And he just has it on occasion, no prep or reason.

#39 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: ??? He never uses it though... How could he lose if he has that as standard equipment? That's essentially omnipotence.

#40 Posted by DarkRaiden (10163 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: ??? He never uses it though... How could he lose if he has that as standard equipment? That's essentially omnipotence.

Plot.....

I mean Doom is the dichotomy of plot if you think about it. What he has built into his armor and what he's done in the past, all the things he's accomplished would make him nigh unbeatable which is clearly a product of plot and him constantly learning and asspulling. On the other hand whenever he loses (not often) it's plot because.....well the due to the first thing he should never lose. Then again, he also has a 3rd plot thing where whenever he loses it's a doombot.

#41 Edited by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331:

Alright so tell me which you think is more powerful in general without omnipotents all comics or all anime. You anime fans don't admit defeat way more than us comic fans.

Now on to Doom. You tell us to prove how Doom can resist Aizens illusions but how about you prove to us how Doom can't. You say Aizens illusions are something Doom has never dealt with before. Same thing the other way Doom's armor is nothing Aizen has ever dealt with before. I has tanked hits from beings way more powerful than Aizen. Doom has resisted many illusions and mind attacks before you just refuse to accept it. Now Doom has taken down beings like Hulk and Thor I am pretty sure he can hurt Aizen.

We have given you enough evidence now you give us some.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/THF9ehJ6U5I/AAAAAAAAOmo/SgGieBaMerc/s640/drdoomPurpleMan.jpg

Also Doom deals with Mephisto annualy I think he can beat a slut with butterfly wings.

#42 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin: Without Omnipotents? They're practically the same groupings -.- Their are quite a few beings that can stand in for any plausible comic character so long as they aren't something super stupid specific. To say otherwise sows complete ignorance. Also, I've seen quite a few on both sides refusing to give into anything sensible, it's not just one side.

The thing is, there's lots of characters that each side has an edge on. Anime doesn't generally produce Superman levels of characters, but they can most certainly produce herald+ characters, and they do that in spades. In all of Japanese comics (Mind you this is since the 1960s, vs the 1940s for comics) have almost the same number of random abstracts.

On to the real topic:

no, you haven't. All you've said is, "Doom can resist TP via willpower!" When willpower is clearly a non-factor in bleach. Willpower isn't an immediate win all against all TP ever. It just isn't. I'm freaking tired of people using "Willpower" as an immediate out to any debilitating effect. My guy fears - Willpower, My guy poisons yours - willpower, my guy has techniques that have absolutely no bearing on willpower - willpower. I'm just waiting for "willpower" to get people out of TK holds and Physical holds at this point.

It's stupid. Also, how would you like us to prove something doesn't exist to you? This is why I put this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

It's actually impossible to prove something doesn't exist. It's like asking me to prove Nessie doesn't exist. There's always a chance, but we have no proof it exists. The onus to find proof of concept is one the person asserting the argument. Aizen's power works on everyone who isn't blind or who cant catch his sword, and only people who can remove it via similar powers can remove it. Other characters have no such luck. Unless Doom has similar powers, he shouldn't be able to remove it.

Not having evidence is perfectly consistent with my standpoint, especially when you consider that "willpower" is something universal to everyone in any story. It doesn't make a difference in Bleach at all.

Aizen has regenerated from a state of nothingness due to the Hogyoku, Doom can't actually kill him.

#43 Posted by Funsiized (3882 posts) - - Show Bio

.......Kyouka suigestsu....GG. How can doom Resist something he doesn't even know is happening? That's what makes it so lethal.

followed by Hado..99? i forget. But Tl;DR Gravity bomb.

Then there is his tremendous strength-stopping Bankai Ichigo's sword with 2 fingers, Causally Pounding on the top tiers(Kiskue, Yoroichi, Ichigo's dad) and beating some purely physically.

Genius Level Intellect(He had a plan in brew for what...100 years? 300?) and it all worked near flawlessly, He practically controlled Ichigo Since birth.

Speed-again, i go to Ichigos Bankai block...Ichigo was about Mach 34 at end of SS Arc, When he Easily deflected Getsuga Tenshou Later, Ichigo was about Mach 40.

Doom is Tanky and Smart, and has some Stupid strong gear, But Aizen could Blitz The moment the match starts.

#44 Posted by XxGin (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331:

Alright who in anime can match Beyonder in terms of power levels and feats?

Doom freezes time than kills him any way he wants to, there. Also Aizen can't speedblitze because Doom can teleport. Aizen is crazy powerful I know I watched bleach like how he can easily kill one character with short little movements and everything but Doom has to much crazy gadgets at his disposal. He challenges Mephisto every single year and wins. Not only does he have got a lot of gadgets also a lot oh expierience.

#45 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxgin: Which Beyonder? PR or the newer one, and I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with him. If we're talking about destroying universes, then there's plenty.

I actually already conceded due to the time thing + random other gadgetry. That's why I stopped debating with @darkraiden, Doom wins because apparently temporal mastery is "standard equipment" for him.

#46 Posted by SpideyPresence (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

.......Kyouka suigestsu....GG. How can doom Resist something he doesn't even know is happening? That's what makes it so lethal.

followed by Hado..99? i forget. But Tl;DR Gravity bomb.

Then there is his tremendous strength-stopping Bankai Ichigo's sword with 2 fingers, Causally Pounding on the top tiers(Kiskue, Yoroichi, Ichigo's dad) and beating some purely physically.

Genius Level Intellect(He had a plan in brew for what...100 years? 300?) and it all worked near flawlessly, He practically controlled Ichigo Since birth.

Speed-again, i go to Ichigos Bankai block...Ichigo was about Mach 34 at end of SS Arc, When he Easily deflected Getsuga Tenshou Later, Ichigo was about Mach 40.

Doom is Tanky and Smart, and has some Stupid strong gear, But Aizen could Blitz The moment the match starts.

Lol please give me the calcs for this.

On another note, Aizen can't get past Doom's shields, but I don't know if Doom can resist Kyoka Suigetsu

#47 Edited by JayAaerow (522 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the second thread with him and an anime character vs Dr.Doom. All those in favor of Doom have provided scans and explanations on how.

I see an argument on Willpower. In Battle forums, it can be used as an universe equivalent. If he can cast illusions in anyway, Willpower can defeat it. Just cause no character has done so in Bleach doesn't mean it's impossible If facing a character from a completely different universe is facing Aizen. If he tries fooling any of Doom's senses, He can counter and overcome and has done so with other characters. The OP does not state this takes place in the Bleach Universe. This takes place in an unpopulated Colosseum. Willpower is admissible. Willpowers is also what makes many characters in the comics overcome "something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality" that's the definition of illusion from the dictionary. If his ability achieves this, then Willpower is a means to overcome. Also, he's a master magician and probably knows many ways to overcome illusions, anyway.

Also, instead of calling other's ignorant(to those calling out Doom supporters), do some research on Doom. The character has been around FAR MORE LONGER then Aizen. People who support Doom here are not coming from nowhere. They've even posted scans detailing how his abilities work and provided explanation. All I've seen for Aizen's case so far is claims without proof(He comes from an Manga/Anime, you can post scans or episode number). If he's that good, then providing scans or whatnot to prove your point. Not call other's out just because they have a opinion and have the facts to back it up.

And lastly, this is a comic-site. What did you expect? For people to say this is a curbstomp? Many people here know Dr.Doom beyond what's been displayed on Wikipedia, video-games and the movies. And some here also know quite a bit of Anime/Manga. Sorry, but it seems those who side with Aizen here(Keep in mind I mean the users who insulted, not those who support him and has cause no trouble. If you think he wins, it's your opinion) don't know much about Dr.Doom himself. This is why you must do research on characters and If you don't wanna, then be open-minded when people present you with evidence that can turn the tide in a decision IF you're intending to debate.

#48 Posted by Funsiized (3882 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by Ironshinobi88 (1874 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom launches a magic blast and Aizen phases/dodges it. Aizen insta slashes doom as he looks back he sees Dooms armor is not scratched at all.

Doom "You think that Paltry sword capable of harming Doom? Imbecile. This soul society will be mine and none shall deny DOOM!". Aizen retorts "A human thinking he can claim this dimension, hmph, how delusional."

Aizen tries the hypnosis but Doom quickly catches on to his tricks.

Aizen transforms and assaults Doom, Dooms shields uphold and allow him to blast Aizen with magic and tech.

Several rocks and mountains are killed.

The camera zooms as a body is sspent flying into a nearbu mountain. Doom gets to his feet. Aizen appears before him. "For a human your strength is immense, we could accomplish wonders together Dr.Doom.I can give you power beyond reasoning. "

"Doom is intrigued by your proposal, perhapz there is something to be learned."

Aizen and Doom join forces, as Doom and Aizen work together they work in multiple betrayal failsafes into their plans. Ultimately Aizen figures out these plans and tricks Doom into becoming Aizens slave. Meanwhile Doom prepped a plan in which Aizens Hogyuku is transported into an unknown Dimension. Aizen loses a considerable amount of ppowerand tries to extort Doom to tell him. "Doom is no one's slave!" Doom activates a self destruct ability and destroys Aizens right arm and base of operations.

meanwhile in the other Dimension...a being, an old one, who sees a bright pearl races towards it, its power radiating feels like pure ecstasy, hos flaming skull forces a grin. "Interesting" Dormammu whispers.

Until the next battle thread

#50 Posted by Dratini1331 (7360 posts) - - Show Bio