#1 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahsoka Tano Vs. The Mon Calamari Jedi Knight Nadhar Vebb. For those who are wondering, Nadhar effortlessly soloed 4 Magnaguards, which I would say is about as good as anything Ahsoka has yet to do with a lightsaber. Ahsoka is her Season 5 version. Setting is the Lair of General Grievous where Nadhar perished. Who wins?

Versus

#2 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

.... *breaks pencil in half with his teeth*

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#3 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Why is it you're always frothing from the mouth when I do any fights with Ahsoka?

#4 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JediXMan: Why is it you're always frothing from the mouth when I do any fights with Ahsoka?

You say it as if I care who makes the threads in the first place.

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#5 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Regardless, you always seem to get so angry whenever I do a thread with Ahsoka. Don't know about anything else. Just going with personal experience.

In any event I may just delete this thread if I get enough hate for it.

#6 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow:

It's not personal. I just have a very, very intense hatred for Ahsoka.

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#7 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Why? She's not a terrible character, especially in later seasons. Character development and all that. And personally, I like that Anakin has his own apprentice.

#8 Posted by JediXMan (31265 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:

@JediXMan: Why? She's not a terrible character, especially in later seasons. Character development and all that. And personally, I like that Anakin has his own apprentice.

It's stupid, it stomps on continuity, she's a little brat who should have ended up like other padawans during the Clone Wars.

Moderator
#9 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

It's stupid

How so?

@JediXMan said:

It stomps on continuity

No, not really. Anakin has his own apprentice, nothing wrong with that, as he becomes a Jedi Knight during the course of the Clone Wars. She's not mentioned in RotS, but that could either be coincidence and/or because you'll get your wish regarding her final fate. I fail to see incompatibility. And regardless, I like that Anakin has his own apprentice, as already stated. It helps to give the idea that he has progressed in the Jedi Order rather than still being a whiny punk with delusions of grandeur. Better helps him to be a tragic hero I suppose.

Regardless, this is kind of off-topic and a matter of personal opinion. Can you perhaps put aside your bias just long enough to say who you think wins? (Just by looking at feats I mean)

#10 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahsoka definitely does stomp on continuity. The entire narrative dynamic of the Clone Wars novel series, the Clone Wars micro-series, Clone Wars Adventures, Republic, Labyrinth of Evil, and Revenge of the Sith is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are the perfect Jedi team and are inseparable as friends, which leads into the tragic confrontation they have at the end of RotS. Ahsoka interposing herself into that character structure ruins it, especially since she was just placed in out of nowhere after not being mentioned or referenced anywhere in any Star Wars media. And on top of that, the circumstances under which Anakin acquired Ahsoka as his Padawan are ridiculous. Yoda basically orders Anakin to accept her as an apprentice, which is not at all how Jedi select apprentices. There is no Jedi dictate that requires Knights or Masters to choose an apprentice, and some Jedi, such as Saesee Tiin, have never trained an apprentice. Why Anakin was essentially, though relatively cordially, forced to is nonsense.

#11 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Ahsoka definitely does stomp on continuity. The entire narrative dynamic of the Clone Wars novel series, the Clone Wars micro-series, Clone Wars Adventures, Republic, Labyrinth of Evil, and Revenge of the Sith is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are the perfect Jedi team and are inseparable as friends, which leads into the tragic confrontation they have at the end of RotS. Ahsoka interposing herself into that character structure ruins it, especially since she was just placed in out of nowhere after not being mentioned or referenced anywhere in any Star Wars media.

I respectfully disagree. Ahsoka does not ruin the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan at all. She simply represents a second relationship that Anakin has. He not need restrict himself solely to Obi-Wan. The lack of previous mentions I grant you, is hard to ignore, but I simply right it off as coincidence, along with possibly her death, which many fans are predicting (and many also hoping).

I also do not regard Labyrinth of Evil as canon due to the large number of inconsistencies between it and the CW episodes that covered the exact same event (and both Clone Wars shows have a higher level of canon).

@Silver2467 said:

And on top of that, the circumstances under which Anakin acquired Ahsoka as his Padawan are ridiculous. Yoda basically orders Anakin to accept her as an apprentice, which is not at all how Jedi select apprentices. There is no Jedi dictate that requires Knights or Masters to choose an apprentice, and some Jedi, such as Saesee Tiin, have never trained an apprentice. Why Anakin was essentially, though relatively cordially, forced to is nonsense.

Not every Jedi needs to choose apprentices in the same way, but I will still concede that they could have done a better job with this. The CW movie is nowhere near as good as the show itself.

And I say again, all of this is off-topic. Regardless of everyone's feelings for Ahsoka, can we please just say in a non-biased way whether or not she wins this fight?

#12 Posted by Drakkis (38 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I love Ahsoka always have and I enjoy her character development which looking back whenever she was in season 1 and looked like a kid who gave bad guys nicknames like "hairless harpy" she definitely has matured as a character and in season 5 is somewhat of a teacher. I don't see why everyone has a problem with her not being mentioned anywhere because OBVIOUSLY a character created around 2008 will not be mentioned in a 2005 movie (Rots).

ALL that aside I have to say Ahsoka wins, not because of bias (I love Mon Cals) but she has WAAAYY more feats than someone in 1 episode who might I add was very impatient which led to his downfall. If you have seen the episode recently she fought Grievous a second time (for all those who will bring it up the first time she was no match for him, he underestimated her and she ran away) and did farely well plus she has many more feats in lightsaber combat and martial arts under her belt.

#13 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said: 

I respectfully disagree. Ahsoka does not ruin the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan at all. She simply represents a second relationship that Anakin has. He not need restrict himself solely to Obi-Wan.

Yes, it does. Throughout all of canon, Anakin's four primary relationships, the only real relationships that mattered in his Jedi career, that all contributed to his fall were his relationships with Padme, Shmi, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine; Ahsoka was never a factor because she didn't exist. Retconning her into continuity was a poor decision in terms of plot fluidity. The whole plot point is that the perfect Jedi team that the entire galaxy hails is Anakin and Obi-Wan, not Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. Again, it just undermines the whole dynamic that numerous novels and comics, as well as the movies themselves, developed. 
 

I also do not regard Labyrinth of Evil as canon due to the large number of inconsistencies between it and the CW episodes that covered the exact same event (and both Clone Wars shows have a higher level of canon).

LOL @ this. So you just decided that Labyrinth is no longer canon due to a show ignoring parts of its story? Come on, now. First of all, the Evasive Action webcomic and The New Essential Chronology reconciled the inconsistencies between CW and Labyrinth; so your opinion on its canonicity is utterly meaningless. Second of all, the only inconsistencies between Labyrinth and CW is where specifically Anakin and Obi-Wan were when they were called back to Coruscant to aid in the Separatist invasion and which Jedi protected Palpatine from Grievous. That was it. Those in no way render a whole novel N-Canon, and the Chronology has made it abundantly clear that Labyrinth is canon. 
 

Not every Jedi needs to choose apprentices in the same way

This is no excuse at all. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia stated very clearly that a Jedi cannot be ordered by the council to train an apprentice; a Jedi has to choose an apprentice for himself. 
 

And I say again, all of this is off-topic.

Granted.
#14 Posted by JamesKM716 (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

It's stupid, it stomps on continuity, she's a little brat who should have ended up like other padawans during the Clone Wars.

This, and also this:

I just have a very, very intense hatred for Ahsoka.

#15 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Yes, it does. Throughout all of canon, Anakin's four primary relationships, the only real relationships that mattered in his Jedi career, that all contributed to his fall were his relationships with Padme, Shmi, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine; Ahsoka was never a factor because she didn't exist. Retconning her into continuity was a poor decision in terms of plot fluidity. The whole plot point is that the perfect Jedi team that the entire galaxy hails is Anakin and Obi-Wan, not Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. Again, it just undermines the whole dynamic that numerous novels and comics, as well as the movies themselves, developed.

So there are five relationships now. That is hardly a kiss of death to me. Anakin and Obi-Wan remain a pair, but Anakin and Ahsoka are also a pair. Both have their own dynamics. I don't see a problem with this at all.

@Silver2467 said:

LOL @ this. So you just decided that Labyrinth is no longer canon due to a show ignoring parts of its story? Come on, now. First of all, the Evasive Action webcomic and The New Essential Chronology reconciled the inconsistencies between CW and Labyrinth; so your opinion on its canonicity is utterly meaningless. Second of all, the only inconsistencies between Labyrinth and CW is where specifically Anakin and Obi-Wan were when they were called back to Coruscant to aid in the Separatist invasion and which Jedi protected Palpatien from Grievous. That was it. Those in no way render a whole novel canon, and the Chronology has made it abundantly clear that Labyrinth is canon.

There is no need for rudeness. There are inconsistencies that I need to see be worked out. Namely:

Clear up all of these inconsistencies for me please. There's also the mater of the Jedi who was with Roron and Foul in the novel who was decapitated in the same fight those two died in. Where is he in the episode of the original CW show? If you can answer this, I will concede.

@Silver2467 said:

This is no excuse at all. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia stated very clearly that a Jedi cannot be ordered by the council to train an apprentice; a Jedi has to choose an apprentice for himself.

Yes, and I conceded that was something they could have done better.

And you STILL haven't told me who you think wins based on feats.

#16 Posted by JamesKM716 (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Why does he need to tell you based on feats?

Literally everyone so far has said Ahsoka wins, if not stomps.

#17 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: No, currently only a single person has given me any kind of answer.

I'm considering deleting the thread at this point.

#18 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@shroudofsorrow said: 
Your copy/pasting Wookieepedia is telling. You've never actually read Labyrinth, have you? 
 
Just because CW doesn't show every scene in Labyrinth verbatim does not mean they never happened; it means it selected scenes to chronicle. The point of CW was not to reproduce the novel scene for scene. 
 
The rescue team was made up of Shaak, Stass Allie, Corobb, and Foul, with help from Mace and Kit Fisto. In Evasive Action, Adi and Shaak are shown with the corpses of Corobb and Foul, and in the Rots novelization (which by the way is higher in canon the CW show is), Stass and Shaak are mentioned. Also in the RotS novelization, Mace mentions his duel with Grievous, and RotS also references the Jedi's near discovery of Sidious' existence in Labyrinth. RotS is G-Canon. Evasive Action answers what happened to Corobb and Foul; they died before Shaak arrived to stop Grievous.
 
The Chronology eliminates any sense of credence your point may have had. Entire novels are never retconned out of existence; when inconsistencies in canon arise, a source always reconciles the two. Evasive Action, RotS, and the Chronology have done that for Labyrinth and CW. 
 

And you STILL haven't told me who you think wins based on feats.

I don't know or care. I responded to a rather silly point you made about Ahsoka, and then you decided you had the canonical authority to retcon stories out, which is equally as ridiculous.  Post proof that Labyrinth  is no longer canon, or stop making up information.  
#19 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Well, I got my answers. Time to delete this thread.

#20 Posted by ShootingNova (18910 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Ahsoka definitely does stomp on continuity. The entire narrative dynamic of the Clone Wars novel series, the Clone Wars micro-series, Clone Wars Adventures, Republic, Labyrinth of Evil, and Revenge of the Sith is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are the perfect Jedi team and are inseparable as friends, which leads into the tragic confrontation they have at the end of RotS. Ahsoka interposing herself into that character structure ruins it, especially since she was just placed in out of nowhere after not being mentioned or referenced anywhere in any Star Wars media. And on top of that, the circumstances under which Anakin acquired Ahsoka as his Padawan are ridiculous. Yoda basically orders Anakin to accept her as an apprentice, which is not at all how Jedi select apprentices. There is no Jedi dictate that requires Knights or Masters to choose an apprentice, and some Jedi, such as Saesee Tiin, have never trained an apprentice. Why Anakin was essentially, though relatively cordially, forced to is nonsense.

Exactly.

@shroudofsorrow: And please try not to make Ahsokha threads again.

Online
#21 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I honestly don't care what people's views on a character are. When I post fights with her I wish to see how she will fare against other characters. If people can't get past their personal bias, than that is their problem. I hate Dark Empire for instance, and believe that that "stomps on continuity" just as much as anything else. That doesn't mean I go on a tear when someone posts a DE Sidious thread.

And I still don't believe she "stomps on continuity", but I am no longer in a mood to argue this point.

And don't bother responding to this because I'm not coming back to this thread.