Still going to back Thompson for 6/10. I'm not convinced of Hawkman's ability to put Flash down. However I do think both sides make good cases, and it's refreshing for such a close match to be bumped. If Marvel and DC do another crossover, I say we demand this fight.
@highaccuser: Does he consistently do that? Everything i have seen of Hawkman he has never done anything on that calibur meanwhiles, Flash is consistently dealing with High-Tier villains and heroes
@highaccuser: Does he consistently do that? Everything i have seen of Hawkman he has never done anything on that calibur meanwhiles, Flash is consistently dealing with High-Tier villains and heroes
He's also gone blow for blow with WWIII Black Adam. He's knocked around and drawn blood from Gog, a JSA teambuster who manhandled KC Superman and Alan Scott.
@highaccuser: Flash has never has been KO-ed or incapped through physical/blunt force. He doesnt have the neccessities to actually put down Flash. Meanwhile, Flash has the damage output (ie: Symbiote Blades, tendriils, ect.) to put him down. (And sorry it took awhile to reply, my notifications sometimes are delayed a bit)
@highaccuser: Flash has never has been KO-ed or incapped through physical/blunt force. He doesnt have the neccessities to actually put down Flash. Meanwhile, Flash has the damage output (ie: Symbiote Blades, tendriils, ect.) to put him down. (And sorry it took awhile to reply, my notifications sometimes are delayed a bit)
By the same token, he's never tanked blunt force equivilent to Hawkmans mace strikes. Flash does have the means to put him down but it's not as if Hawkmans healing factor isn't capable of withstanding it.
@highaccuser: Flash has never has been KO-ed or incapped through physical/blunt force. He doesnt have the neccessities to actually put down Flash. Meanwhile, Flash has the damage output (ie: Symbiote Blades, tendriils, ect.) to put him down. (And sorry it took awhile to reply, my notifications sometimes are delayed a bit)
By the same token, he's never tanked blunt force equivilent to Hawkmans mace strikes. Flash does have the means to put him down but it's not as if Hawkmans healing factor isn't capable of withstanding it.
Yes he has, hes been able to tank Rulks hits, Megataks hits, Damion Hellstroms and Vengeances hellfire and hits, and so much more. And i dont see Hawkman healing from his head being decapitated....
@highaccuser: Flash has never has been KO-ed or incapped through physical/blunt force. He doesnt have the neccessities to actually put down Flash. Meanwhile, Flash has the damage output (ie: Symbiote Blades, tendriils, ect.) to put him down. (And sorry it took awhile to reply, my notifications sometimes are delayed a bit)
By the same token, he's never tanked blunt force equivilent to Hawkmans mace strikes. Flash does have the means to put him down but it's not as if Hawkmans healing factor isn't capable of withstanding it.
Yes he has, hes been able to tank Rulks hits, Megataks hits, Damion Hellstroms and Vengeances hellfire and hits, and so much more. And i dont see Hawkman healing from his head being decapitated....
I don't see most of those as being strong as Hawkmans hits, but even if Flash can take a few he'll eventually be mashed up by repeated blows. Flash can always decapitate Carter, that much is true but given his durability it'll take time and Hawkmans manueverability from the wings will make it hard for Venom to get such a clean strike.
@highaccuser: To be fair I haven't seen anything showing Hawkman is as fast as Spider-Man, who Venom has tagged and grappled up with his webs. I feel Flash has the speed edge here, and he was able to tag someone faster than him with it. Plus it's worth noting Flash heals so well he's never actually been KO'd from blunt force of piercing/slashing damage, that that's taking hit's from 100 tonners as well as magic. Just some FYI in case you didn't know.
Does Venom actually have the means to put Carter down? The guy takes hits from Aquaman and Wonder Woman, regrows his limbs ... his body survived a zeta beam explosion that would've wiped out the planet Ragnar although he himself seemingly died. Not saying he'd win, but it's gonna be hard for him to lose.
Does Venom actually have the means to put Carter down? The guy takes hits from Aquaman and Wonder Woman, regrows his limbs ... his body survived a zeta beam explosion that would've wiped out the planet Ragnar although he himself seemingly died. Not saying he'd win, but it's gonna be hard for him to lose.
This.Sucks how Hawkman is treated like street fodder below Deathstroke.
@granitesoldier: How has Flash lost in the past? Lets see how many times and in what ways so we can see if Carter can replicate the means. That may help this thread more then the "He can." "No he can't." we've been seeing.
Does Venom actually have the means to put Carter down? The guy takes hits from Aquaman and Wonder Woman, regrows his limbs ... his body survived a zeta beam explosion that would've wiped out the planet Ragnar although he himself seemingly died. Not saying he'd win, but it's gonna be hard for him to lose.
This.Sucks how Hawkman is treated like street fodder below Deathstroke.
@highaccuser: To be fair I haven't seen anything showing Hawkman is as fast as Spider-Man, who Venom has tagged and grappled up with his webs. I feel Flash has the speed edge here, and he was able to tag someone faster than him with it.
Hawkman was capable of tagging baroness blitzkreg, a legit speedster who Jesse Quick had a hard time keeping up with. It's mostly the enhanced vision from the Nth metal and the movement speed of his arms rather than reaction speed, so Flash is probably faster in overall combat speed.
Plus it's worth noting Flash heals so well he's never actually been KO'd from blunt force of piercing/slashing damage, that that's taking hit's from 100 tonners as well as magic. Just some FYI in case you didn't know.
@risingbean: He has been taken out by sonic and fire weaponry, but that was early on. Since then he's taken both and been fine. His only true "loss" that I'd say was truly lopsided was against Toxin. But Toxin is a 90 tonner and royally taxed Flash's healing but like big time disembowling level bladed strikes. He can take Rulks punches but impalement and limb loss from Toxin seemed to effect him more. So it just seems to be a matter of over taxing him, and big slashes and stabs seem to do it more than blunt strikes, but it's worth noting Toxin's strength backing those strikes and how hard it is for conventional blades to hurt symbiotes. Symbiotes seem better at cutting symbiotes in ways that effect them that normal weapons.
nice battle! i can see this being a really good fight as long as it's straight up and no exploiting weaknesses are involved. i love Agent Venom and i wish they'd put do his story for a movie instead of all these retarded goblins. lol
i'm actually leaning toward Hawkman, even though i'm not as knowledgable on his feats. the Nth metal is pretty dang impressive. it seems like he'd have enough to tank most of the attacks as well as eventually KO or incap Thompson. i can see it lasting a long time because of regen capabilities on both sides...
@risingbean: He has been taken out by sonic and fire weaponry, but that was early on. Since then he's taken both and been fine. His only true "loss" that I'd say was truly lopsided was against Toxin. But Toxin is a 90 tonner and royally taxed Flash's healing but like big time disembowling level bladed strikes. He can take Rulks punches but impalement and limb loss from Toxin seemed to effect him more. So it just seems to be a matter of over taxing him, and big slashes and stabs seem to do it more than blunt strikes, but it's worth noting Toxin's strength backing those strikes and how hard it is for conventional blades to hurt symbiotes. Symbiotes seem better at cutting symbiotes in ways that effect them that normal weapons.
What is amusing is in the new 52, the Nth metal as pertains to Hawkman is a symbiote.
It does seem like this can go either way. Carter can use fire (he did it a time or so early on), he can change his weapons from slashing to piercing to bashing. He heals quick. He flies, is stronger and more durable then you'd imagine he should be.
It really looks like this would be a ten round back and forth battle of attrition to me.
@ancient_0f_days: I haven't read every debate here but as one of the most knowledgeable Agent Venom fans on the site I don't see too many "fanboys" for him as compared to other characters. My assessment personally is based 100% on an equal evaluation of both characters and I think Venom takes a slim majority in an attrition fight. That makes me a hater or fanboy? I'm not saying you're calling me one but doesn't it provide more to actual give a good discussion and points rather than call fanboy or hater? Just my personal opinion, you're free to your own opinion of course.
@risingbean: Agreed. That's why I think it's such a great fight. There are solid reasonings for both winning.
I just think Thompson has enough resistance showings to warrant thinking he can fight through Hawkman's fire and enough combat showings to show him being able to overcome Hawkman's Nth. Your symbiote comparison is great, and what has Flash made his bones handling?
@reaverlation: Well Hawkman's has the potential to beat Thomspon and can, Deathstroke has no chance to beat Flash. I might have missed it but did someone make that claim?
@reaverlation: Ah, well Hawkman should take a healthy majority over Deathstroke in my opinion but I understand what you're saying about people's attitudes towards him.
@risingbean: Too bad Venom has too many fanboys and Hawkman has just as many haters.
I think a lot of it is the fact that Hawkman is considered a 3rd rate hero and people are ignorant on him because they don't bother reading. When standing beside Superman, Green Lantern or the Flash, guys like Hawkman or Aquaman sorta seem like they are lacking in the power department. Oh Hawkman can fly? Who in DC can't? Hawkman has some super strength? Well Superman can move planets. So on and on. When people care more about power then persona, we get low key guys like Carter flying under the radar.
@granitesoldier I really need to give Agent Venom a shot. I read the first trade for Scarlet Spider based on your recommendations. I thought it was pretty fun. As for this battle, until I get caught up in trade I think I'm gonna say flip a coin as far as this fight is concerned.
I think a lot of it is the fact that Hawkman is considered a 3rd rate hero and people are ignorant on him because they don't bother reading. When standing beside Superman, Green Lantern or the Flash, guys like Hawkman or Aquaman sorta seem like they are lacking in the power department. Oh Hawkman can fly? Who in DC can't? Hawkman has some super strength? Well Superman can move planets. So on and on. When people care more about power then persona, we get low key guys like Carter flying under the radar.
@granitesoldier I really need to give Agent Venom a shot. I read the first trade for Scarlet Spider based on your recommendations. I thought it was pretty fun. As for this battle, until I get caught up in trade I think I'm gonna say flip a coin as far as this fight is concerned.
I whole-heartedly agree with your first statement. I'm not going to sit back and say Hawkman is my favorite anything, or that I know everything about him, but he unfortunately is one of those characters who gets "lost in the mix" and "isn't impressive" simply because no one looks at him for who he is.
As for your second I really do recommend it. It's only 42 issues, and you see a big difference in Thompson from when he starts (drugged symbiote, and he doesn't get along with the suit) to where he finishes (he actually comes to an understanding with the suit). The series really felt like it was finally hitting it's stride when it was cancelled, and unfortunately the editors wanted Bunn to just wrap up a few plot points instead of write an epic finale, so the ending is weak. Thompson is an amazing protagonist though, and as a fellow service man you may relate to him as I do.
@reaverlation: @ancient_0f_days: @highaccuser: What has Hawkman done to really put him above Flash's level? I haven't read anything recent on Hawkman so idk what he's been doing.
been shot with a sniper rifle from behind from about 10 feet and then got stabbed in the chest and then fought just fine cause of his regen.
had his arm chopped off and it grew back.
died from a nuke and is going to come back to life.
in futures end he died from brainiacs attack on storm watch and he came back to life. and then re grew his arm again after the atom had cut it off his dead body and attached it on frankensteins body.
been shot with a sniper rifle from behind from about 10 feet and then got stabbed in the chest and then fought just fine cause of his regen.
had his arm chopped off and it grew back.
died from a nuke and is going to come back to life.
in futures end he died from brainiacs attack on storm watch and he came back to life. and then re grew his arm again after the atom had cut it off his dead body and attached it on frankensteins body.
Does he need to breath? Like can he survive in space or underwater?
I dont remember. Let me look thru a couple issues.
If he can't then the only way to beat him would be to incap him
I think cutting his head off should count as incap, and nothing above stated hasn't been replicated by Flash honestly. He survived a Gamma Bomb, which shared the blast appearance of a nuke. Not saying that an actual nuke wouldn't kill him, but it's worth noting that they appear similar and it only KO'd him. He's also re-attached limbs (as has every other symbiote these days). So to be fair, none of those feats are really that out of Flash's league.
Also I don't know if Future's End is canon. Seems Batman left Riddler for dead...and that's hugely out of character. Especially if it's all only "five years" from the current stuff.
@granitesoldier: i wasnt listing those feats as something AV hadnt done. I was listing them to show hes very much deserving of being in this battle. A nuke essentially just KOd him since he comes right back. Should be noted that his Nth metal took the blast unscathed.
Futures end IS canon...for now. It will get thrown out later. Someone will go back in time and avoid all of this from happening, Im sure.
Does he need to breath? Like can he survive in space or underwater?
I dont remember. Let me look thru a couple issues.
If he can't then the only way to beat him would be to incap him
I think cutting his head off should count as incap, and nothing above stated hasn't been replicated by Flash honestly. He survived a Gamma Bomb, which shared the blast appearance of a nuke. Not saying that an actual nuke wouldn't kill him, but it's worth noting that they appear similar and it only KO'd him. He's also re-attached limbs (as has every other symbiote these days). So to be fair, none of those feats are really that out of Flash's league.
Also I don't know if Future's End is canon. Seems Batman left Riddler for dead...and that's hugely out of character. Especially if it's all only "five years" from the current stuff.
So you think Flash wins via incap? & you have any issues on Flash you'd recommend?
@granitesoldier: i wasnt listing those feats as something AV hadnt done. I was listing them to show hes very much deserving of being in this battle. A nuke essentially just KOd him since he comes right back. Should be noted that his Nth metal took the blast unscathed.
Futures end IS canon...for now. It will get thrown out later. Someone will go back in time and avoid all of this from happening, Im sure.
If it is, it shouldn't be. There's no explanation for Batman behaving that way and I found it a grievous out of character moment. I was shocked by it, and it was completely not something Bruce would do.
It's obvious I wasn't happy with Batman's showing there, huh? Lol.
@granitesoldier: i wasnt listing those feats as something AV hadnt done. I was listing them to show hes very much deserving of being in this battle. A nuke essentially just KOd him since he comes right back. Should be noted that his Nth metal took the blast unscathed.
Futures end IS canon...for now. It will get thrown out later. Someone will go back in time and avoid all of this from happening, Im sure.
Log in to comment