Agamotto Vs Zero Hour Parallax

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utotheg38

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#1  Edited By utotheg38
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No morals, No prep, Battle takes place In the negative zone. Both parties at full power.
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cattlebattle

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#2  Edited By cattlebattle

In my opinion, Magic: that much > Cosmic power. So I'm going with Agamotto

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jaywray

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#3  Edited By jaywray

Agamotto, but it sure as hell wont be easy!

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RoyalDivinity

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#4  Edited By RoyalDivinity
@jaywray said:


                    Agamotto, but it sure as hell wont be easy!

                   

               
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utotheg38

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#5  Edited By utotheg38

My friend said parallax because blah,blah,ultimate entity (lol I know right?),blah,blah one shot superman blah,blah,blah.

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demifiend

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#6  Edited By demifiend

parallax

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Boobster

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#7  Edited By Boobster

Parallax wins.

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utotheg38

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#8  Edited By utotheg38
@Boobster: Ok, I respect you're opinion but can you please explain, Thanks.
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Boobster

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#9  Edited By Boobster
@utotheg38 said:
@Boobster: Ok, I respect you're opinion but can you please explain, Thanks.
He had the power to rewrite the history of entire timelines of DC universe. I think it was because of him why Doomsday was brought back since he was in the Entropy, where the universe die.
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utotheg38

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#10  Edited By utotheg38
@Boobster: Ok, Thanks. So this Is a stomp?
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TheMightyAvenger

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#11  Edited By TheMightyAvenger

I think it's a good fight but I believe Parallax is more powerfull.

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slimj87d

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#12  Edited By slimj87d

Hal Jordan during Zero hour wasn't just Parallax, but also all the guardians and whole central green power battery.  
 
Agamotto, one of the 3 that empower the sorcerer supreme is outmatched here. He would need  Oshtur and Hoggoth to at least stalemate. 

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Pharoh_Atem

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#13  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

Parallax got this.

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recordkeeper

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#14  Edited By recordkeeper

Agamotto actually takes this
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Killemall

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#15  Edited By Killemall

I say parallax.. :) (dont ask me why, i just think parallax is more powerful) 

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King_Saturn

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#16  Edited By King_Saturn
I think Zero Hour Parallax would win here... it would probably be a decent fight... though Parallax stumped The Spectre... and that gives him the edge IMO...
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TheFallenOne

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#17  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
I think Zero Hour Parallax would win here... it would probably be a decent fight... though Parallax stumped The Spectre... and that gives him the edge IMO...

@Killemall said:
I say parallax.. :) (dont ask me why, i just think parallax is more powerful) 

@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Parallax got this.

@utotheg38 said:
@Boobster: Ok, I respect you're opinion but can you please explain, Thanks.

@Boobster said:
Parallax wins.

@demifiend said:
parallax


You guys haven't read Zero Hour and just post some rumors about Zero Hour Parallax. Facts are: 
- he didn't deleted timelines with his own power. He did that by messing up with Timestream(the LOOP he talks about) 
 
   
 
- he didn't recreate universe on his own power. Guardians told him how to do that  
 
 
  
 
see the part where he says knowledge to re-create the universe
 
 
Entropy Rifts that were deleting the timelines were Extant's doing not Jordan/Parallax's. 
 
Parallax/Jordan only feats would be stopping the time (like Odin has done for exmaple) and reigniting the Sun (nothing special) 
 
There are claims that his power is absolute, but that's just hyperbole like Odin or Darkseid being omnipotent. And if his power was absolute than he couldn'd be drained like he was in the end. 
 
And he didn't stomped Spectre. Plus using fight with Spectre as a reason for Hal winning is lame. That's because Spectre is probably the nr.1 victim of PIS in all fiction. And even Black Adam and Batman(the famous Batkick) have done that. Also using the fight with Spectre as argument would be the same as if someone would say: "Thor has beaten Galactus so therefore he beats everyone except high-end Abstracts" 
 
About outcome. Agamotto stomps this over-rated characters known as Zero Hour Parallax. Agamotto has feats to back that up (fight with Galactus, invocation of his power for many feats...) 
 
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King_Saturn

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#18  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
I think Zero Hour Parallax would win here... it would probably be a decent fight... though Parallax stumped The Spectre... and that gives him the edge IMO...

@Killemall said:
I say parallax.. :) (dont ask me why, i just think parallax is more powerful) 

@dccomicsrule2011 said:
Parallax got this.

@utotheg38 said:
@Boobster: Ok, I respect you're opinion but can you please explain, Thanks.

@Boobster said:
Parallax wins.

@demifiend said:
parallax


You guys haven't read Zero Hour and just post some rumors about Zero Hour Parallax. Facts are: 
- he didn't deleted timelines with his own power. He did that by messing up with Timestream(the LOOP he talks about) 
 
   
 
- he didn't recreate universe on his own power. Guardians told him how to do that  
 
 
  
 
see the part where he says knowledge to re-create the universe
 
 
Entropy Rifts that were deleting the timelines were Extant's doing not Jordan/Parallax's. 
 
Parallax/Jordan only feats would be stopping the time (like Odin has done for exmaple) and reigniting the Sun (nothing special) 
 
There are claims that his power is absolute, but that's just hyperbole like Odin or Darkseid being omnipotent. And if his power was absolute than he couldn'd be drained like he was in the end. 
 
And he didn't stomped Spectre. Plus using fight with Spectre as a reason for Hal winning is lame. That's because Spectre is probably the nr.1 victim of PIS in all fiction. And even Black Adam and Batman(the famous Batkick) have done that. Also using the fight with Spectre as argument would be the same as if someone would say: "Thor has beaten Galactus so therefore he beats everyone except high-end Abstracts" 
 
About outcome. Agamotto stomps this over-rated characters known as Zero Hour Parallax. Agamotto has feats to back that up (fight with Galactus, invocation of his power for many feats...) 
 
well first off stomped and stumped are two different words... secondly why is Parallax defeating The Spectre not valid ? you act as if Zero Hour Parallax is a character that has had as many appearances as a Thor ( who is one of Marvel's Biggest Characters with a ongoing series that has over 600 comics ) Parallax has far less appearances especially this version of Parallax... so you have to use what you are given... and to use a crazy feat like Thor defeating Galactus as an equal analogy to Parallax defeating The Spectre is crazy... Thor has plenty of feats and appearances for us to understand what his normal levels are... we know Thor is not a Galactus stomping level entity... whereas ZH Parallax is a character who has appeared in limited comic series... and did high end feats that would back his feat of defeating The Spectre... it seems like you just hate anyone saying anything in favor of a DC Character... I have seen you do this stunt multiple times now... where you try to plow over people who vote for DC Characters... and overall man that's wack... 
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jaywray

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#19  Edited By jaywray
@King Saturn:  
I felt he brought up some valid points to be honest... but I haven't seen or I dont re-call seeing him on other threads voting only for marvel characters, but im not being rude or anything here! wouldn't it seem he does like DC since hes read the comics and stating some facts that the other readers dont? :) just a question not try start an argument or anything!
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#20  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
 
well first off stomped and stumped are two different words... secondly why is Parallax defeating The Spectre not valid ? you act as if Zero Hour Parallax is a character that has had as many appearances as a Thor ( who is one of Marvel's Biggest Characters with a ongoing series that has over 600 comics ) Parallax has far less appearances especially this version of Parallax... so you have to use what you are given... and to use a crazy feat like Thor defeating Galactus as an equal analogy to Parallax defeating The Spectre is crazy... Thor has plenty of feats and appearances for us to understand what his normal levels are... we know Thor is not a Galactus stomping level entity... whereas ZH Parallax is a character who has appeared in limited comic series... and did high end feats that would back his feat of defeating The Spectre... it seems like you just hate anyone saying anything in favor of a DC Character... I have seen you do this stunt multiple times now... where you try to plow over people who vote for DC Characters... and overall man that's wack... 


I don't hate DC. If you check my post history you'll see that i backed up DC characters as well (especially street levelers). I usually stand at Marvel side since Marvel characters are totaly downgraded here on Vine and i'm the only one defending them. And actually my favorite fictional character is Batman. My favorite villains Joker, Bane, Ra's Al Ghul and Juggernaut (marvel character). Belive it or not i actually like Superman better than Thor (although i defend Thor most of the time). As you see i'm not Marvel biased. I just make my points based on the facts and not on which character i like better. 
 
One example of me standing by DC side is Movie Superman vs Movie Thor thread. Check if don't belive and please stop with that Marvel fanboy crap. If you disagre with things i posted than disaprove them if you can.  
You and many others were clearly overhyping Zero Hour Parallax. And my point is valid. Since i posted scan which prove otherwise + i mentioned facts which prove that i'm very well familliar with Zero Hour
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#21  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
well first off stomped and stumped are two different words... secondly why is Parallax defeating The Spectre not valid ? you act as if Zero Hour Parallax is a character that has had as many appearances as a Thor ( who is one of Marvel's Biggest Characters with a ongoing series that has over 600 comics ) Parallax has far less appearances especially this version of Parallax... so you have to use what you are given... and to use a crazy feat like Thor defeating Galactus as an equal analogy to Parallax defeating The Spectre is crazy... Thor has plenty of feats and appearances for us to understand what his normal levels are... we know Thor is not a Galactus stomping level entity... whereas ZH Parallax is a character who has appeared in limited comic series... and did high end feats that would back his feat of defeating The Spectre... it seems like you just hate anyone saying anything in favor of a DC Character... I have seen you do this stunt multiple times now... where you try to plow over people who vote for DC Characters... and overall man that's wack... 


I don't hate DC. If you check my post history you'll see that i backed up DC characters as well (especially street levelers). I usually stand at Marvel side since Marvel characters are totaly downgraded here on Vine and i'm the only one defending them. And actually my favorite fictional character is Batman. My favorite villains Joker, Bane, Ra's Al Ghul and Juggernaut (marvel character). Belive it or not i actually like Superman better than Thor (although i defend Thor most of the time). As you see i'm not Marvel biased. I just make my points based on the facts and not on which character i like better. 
 
One example of me standing by DC side is Movie Superman vs Movie Thor thread. Check if don't belive and please stop with that Marvel fanboy crap. If you disagre with things i posted than disaprove them if you can.  
You and many others were clearly overhyping Zero Hour Parallax. And my point is valid. Since i posted scan which prove otherwise + i mentioned facts which prove that i'm very well familliar with Zero Hour
yeah sure... when someone calls you out about a Marvel bias... now all of a sudden you are a Great Fan of DC... lol 
I could care less who you claim is your favorite villains and characters... I know your history fairly well... and are you seriously using a battle of Movie Characters where you sided with DC to show that you have love for DC ? come on son... I really don't know what to believe about you actually 
as far as disproving what you are saying well simple reasoning can shoot down most of what you posted... though I only focused on what you claimed about the ZH Parallax defeat The Spectre concept as being lame... the reality is it's not lame... and I gave you reasoning in my post up ahead... and also, what is this crap about me and others overhyping Zero Hour Parallax ? I said exactly what  ZH Parallax did that I believe would put him over the top against this Magical Being... no overhyping... the reality is I have said very little about ZH Parallax to hype him in the first place... so you got me shaking my head on that point... and as far as The Spectre jobbing a lot... The Spectre is a comic book character that is over 70 years old... so he had a few low showings... the reality is we know what his average base levels of power are... he is basically a Universal Level Threat at normal levels... the jobbing he does can be counted as crap... the same way we would count the jobbing as crap that Superman does... or any other character with several decades of feats to his credit that says his power level is otherwise... 
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#22  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
You and many others were clearly overhyping Zero Hour Parallax. And my point is valid. Since i posted scan which prove otherwise + i mentioned facts which prove that i'm very well familliar with Zero Hour
yeah sure... when someone calls you out about a Marvel bias... now all of a sudden you are a Great Fan of DC... lol 
I could care less who you claim is your favorite villains and characters... I know your history fairly well... and are you seriously using a battle of Movie Characters where you sided with DC to show that you have love for DC ? come on son... I really don't know what to believe about you actually 
as far as disproving what you are saying well simple reasoning can shoot down most of what you posted... though I only focused on what you claimed about the ZH Parallax defeat The Spectre concept as being lame... the reality is it's not lame... and I gave you reasoning in my post up ahead... and also, what is this crap about me and others overhyping Zero Hour Parallax ? I said exactly what  ZH Parallax did that I believe would put him over the top against this Magical Being... no overhyping... the reality is I have said very little about ZH Parallax to hype him in the first place... so you got me shaking my head on that point... and as far as The Spectre jobbing a lot... The Spectre is a comic book character that is over 70 years old... so he had a few low showings... the reality is we know what his average base levels of power are... he is basically a Universal Level Threat at normal levels... the jobbing he does can be counted as crap... the same way we would count the jobbing as crap that Superman does... or any other character with several decades of feats to his credit that says his power level is otherwise... 
 
You were overhyping ZH Parallax in other threads as well. And that's what i have been refering to. Also this turned in you acussing me being marvel biased ? Well that's 100% off topic. 
 
Just to  mention. Spectre has been victim of PIS many times and his showing against ZH can be labeled as PIS. And it was BOUNDED Spectre. It had host. Spectre which can be considered as 100% universal is UNBOUNDED Spectre. BOUNDED Spectre has to many low showing. So fights against BOUNDED Spectre can't be used as a valid argument. Plus how you know that Spectre could defeat Agamotto. It's apparent that you have minimal knowledge about Agamotto. And using Hal/Parallax showing against SPectre as argument agains Agamotto is totaly childish and trolish. YOu are the user considered veteran on this site. So you should take care for your reputation and credibility better and not use such childish arguments.
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#23  Edited By difficlus

Go with agamotto

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#24  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
You and many others were clearly overhyping Zero Hour Parallax. And my point is valid. Since i posted scan which prove otherwise + i mentioned facts which prove that i'm very well familliar with Zero Hour
yeah sure... when someone calls you out about a Marvel bias... now all of a sudden you are a Great Fan of DC... lol 
I could care less who you claim is your favorite villains and characters... I know your history fairly well... and are you seriously using a battle of Movie Characters where you sided with DC to show that you have love for DC ? come on son... I really don't know what to believe about you actually 
as far as disproving what you are saying well simple reasoning can shoot down most of what you posted... though I only focused on what you claimed about the ZH Parallax defeat The Spectre concept as being lame... the reality is it's not lame... and I gave you reasoning in my post up ahead... and also, what is this crap about me and others overhyping Zero Hour Parallax ? I said exactly what  ZH Parallax did that I believe would put him over the top against this Magical Being... no overhyping... the reality is I have said very little about ZH Parallax to hype him in the first place... so you got me shaking my head on that point... and as far as The Spectre jobbing a lot... The Spectre is a comic book character that is over 70 years old... so he had a few low showings... the reality is we know what his average base levels of power are... he is basically a Universal Level Threat at normal levels... the jobbing he does can be counted as crap... the same way we would count the jobbing as crap that Superman does... or any other character with several decades of feats to his credit that says his power level is otherwise... 
 You were overhyping ZH Parallax in other threads as well. And that's what i have been refering to. Also this turned in you acussing me being marvel biased ? Well that's 100% off topic.  Just to  mention. Spectre has been victim of PIS many times and his showing against ZH can be labeled as PIS. And it was BOUNDED Spectre. It had host. Spectre which can be considered as 100% universal is UNBOUNDED Spectre. BOUNDED Spectre has to many low showing. So fights against BOUNDED Spectre can't be used as a valid argument. Plus how you know that Spectre could defeat Agamotto. It's apparent that you have minimal knowledge about Agamotto. And using Hal/Parallax showing against SPectre as argument agains Agamotto is totaly childish and trolish. YOu are the user considered veteran on this site. So you should take care for your reputation and credibility better and not use such childish arguments.
1. overhyping Zero Hour Parallax in other threads... I don't think so... but you could be right so I will leave it alone... I have over 119,000 posts even I say crazy stuff sometimes 
2. well technically calling you out about a Marvel Bias was only part of my post... I think I was making a case for Zero Hour Parallax vs The Spectre being solid basis for my position first actually 
3. The Spectre, Superman, Galactus... a lot of characters have been victim of PIS... and why is his fight against Zero Hour Parallax labeled as PIS ? because he was Bounded ? how does that make it PIS ? and actually a Bound Spectre has done Universal Feats IIRC... I will see what I have for you on that at the end... honestly I don't know if The Spectre could defeat Agamotto... though I look at it this way... if you are willing to go through so many proposed points to invalidate The Spectre vs Zero Hour Parallax battle... I think you have a great amount of doubts about it yourself... why is using Zero Hour Parallax showing against The Spectre childish ? I already told you we don't have a great wealth of feats for Zero Hour Parallax... and that by far was his high end feat outside of what he did with the whole recreating the Universe thing... ( oh yeah about that also, even if The Guardians gave him knowledge to recreate a Universe... he still has the knowledge as well as the power in context with this battle since both characters are at full power according to the OP )... I am still puzzled how you see the Parallax vs Spectre battle argument as trollish... just because you count it as PIS does not mean it is.... now look below
 
 
No Caption Provided
this here is a Bounded Spectre calling forth what seems to be a Universe... based on the context used in the captions... and I believe the Host at this point was Hal Jordan... 
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Parallax should win.

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#26  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
1. overhyping Zero Hour Parallax in other threads... I don't think so... but you could be right so I will leave it alone... I have over 119,000 posts even I say crazy stuff sometimes 
2. well technically calling you out about a Marvel Bias was only part of my post... I think I was making a case for Zero Hour Parallax vs The Spectre being solid basis for my position first actually 
3. The Spectre, Superman, Galactus... a lot of characters have been victim of PIS... and why is his fight against Zero Hour Parallax labeled as PIS ? because he was Bounded ? how does that make it PIS ? and actually a Bound Spectre has done Universal Feats IIRC... I will see what I have for you on that at the end... honestly I don't know if The Spectre could defeat Agamotto... though I look at it this way... if you are willing to go through so many proposed points to invalidate The Spectre vs Zero Hour Parallax battle... I think you have a great amount of doubts about it yourself... why is using Zero Hour Parallax showing against The Spectre childish ? I already told you we don't have a great wealth of feats for Zero Hour Parallax... and that by far was his high end feat outside of what he did with the whole recreating the Universe thing... ( oh yeah about that also, even if The Guardians gave him knowledge to recreate a Universe... he still has the knowledge as well as the power in context with this battle since both characters are at full power according to the OP )... I am still puzzled how you see the Parallax vs Spectre battle argument as trollish... just because you count it as PIS does not mean it is.... now look below
 
 
 
 
this here is a Bounded Spectre calling forth what seems to be a Universe... based on the context used in the captions... and I believe the Host at this point was Hal Jordan... 


Actually in Zero Hour Hal/Parallax only had one good shot at Spectre (although he was drained a little bit). And here is what happens in the end. 
 
 
 
They say Hal was drained. And that was mainly done by Cap Atom.  
 
Aslo creating universe has nothing to do with fighting ability. Since he would need first to destroy the universe they fight in. And he can't do that since he only achived such thing by messing with Timestream(only in DC). Negative Zone doesn't belong to DC. And as a matter of fact i think that Timestream(like pre Zero Hour) doens't even exist in current DC Multiverse.  
 
The scan you posted is Hal as Spectre's host. And the scan doens't really show him creating many different realities from his hand. It's just artistic expression of his thinking.
 
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#27  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
1. overhyping Zero Hour Parallax in other threads... I don't think so... but you could be right so I will leave it alone... I have over 119,000 posts even I say crazy stuff sometimes 
2. well technically calling you out about a Marvel Bias was only part of my post... I think I was making a case for Zero Hour Parallax vs The Spectre being solid basis for my position first actually 
3. The Spectre, Superman, Galactus... a lot of characters have been victim of PIS... and why is his fight against Zero Hour Parallax labeled as PIS ? because he was Bounded ? how does that make it PIS ? and actually a Bound Spectre has done Universal Feats IIRC... I will see what I have for you on that at the end... honestly I don't know if The Spectre could defeat Agamotto... though I look at it this way... if you are willing to go through so many proposed points to invalidate The Spectre vs Zero Hour Parallax battle... I think you have a great amount of doubts about it yourself... why is using Zero Hour Parallax showing against The Spectre childish ? I already told you we don't have a great wealth of feats for Zero Hour Parallax... and that by far was his high end feat outside of what he did with the whole recreating the Universe thing... ( oh yeah about that also, even if The Guardians gave him knowledge to recreate a Universe... he still has the knowledge as well as the power in context with this battle since both characters are at full power according to the OP )... I am still puzzled how you see the Parallax vs Spectre battle argument as trollish... just because you count it as PIS does not mean it is.... now look below
 
 
No Caption Provided
this here is a Bounded Spectre calling forth what seems to be a Universe... based on the context used in the captions... and I believe the Host at this point was Hal Jordan... 


Actually in Zero Hour Hal/Parallax only had one good shot at Spectre (although he was drained a little bit). And here is what happens in the end. 
 
  They say Hal was drained. And that was mainly done by Cap Atom.   Aslo creating universe has nothing to do with fighting ability. Since he would need first to destroy the universe they fight in. And he can't do that since he only achived such thing by messing with Timestream(only in DC). Negative Zone doesn't belong to DC. And as a matter of fact i think that Timestream(like pre Zero Hour) doens't even exist in current DC Multiverse.   The scan you posted is Hal as Spectre's host. And the scan doens't really show him creating many different realities from his hand. It's just artistic expression of his thinking. 
Can we get at least this straight... that Zero Hour Parallax was a character with limited appearances ? That he did not have a wealth of feats to show for himself yet he did have some High End Feats ? I understand that Creating a Universe is not an Offensive Attack... but it at least shows Parallax has a High Scale of Power that can reach to the ends of a Universe... and that scan I posted actually shows  The Spectre bring forth many different Worlds... yeah it's not directly him creating a Universe on panel... but the captions themselves point to him being able to do so along with what is happening in the Scan... 
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#28  Edited By demifiend

parallax takes this, and im not a guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#29  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
Can we get at least this straight... that Zero Hour Parallax was a character with limited appearances ? That he did not have a wealth of feats to show for himself yet he did have some High End Feats ? I understand that Creating a Universe is not an Offensive Attack... but it at least shows Parallax has a High Scale of Power that can reach to the ends of a Universe... and that scan I posted actually shows  The Spectre bring forth many different Worlds... yeah it's not directly him creating a Universe on panel... but the captions themselves point to him being able to do so along with what is happening in the Scan...   
 
 
 
 
That's already taken straight. We take feats from Zero Hour. But my point is. That fight with Spectre proves nothing. Spectre has been defeated/stopped/hurt by numerous character which shouldn't do such thing. Also the Spectre thing on which we debate has nothing to do with actual topic. Now to counter the scan you posted Agamotto powers up every Sorcerer Supreme in Marvel Multiverse. And give the fact that he is nigh-omniscent if not omniscent seen he is labeled as such + Eye of Agamotto which is titled as ALL SEING
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#30  Edited By TheFallenOne
@demifiend said:
parallax takes this, and im not a guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hahaha. You hope to find a boy on this site or what ? I don't mean to be rude, but the bolded part just made me laugh :-) . I repeat i didn't mean to be rude.
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#31  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
Can we get at least this straight... that Zero Hour Parallax was a character with limited appearances ? That he did not have a wealth of feats to show for himself yet he did have some High End Feats ? I understand that Creating a Universe is not an Offensive Attack... but it at least shows Parallax has a High Scale of Power that can reach to the ends of a Universe... and that scan I posted actually shows  The Spectre bring forth many different Worlds... yeah it's not directly him creating a Universe on panel... but the captions themselves point to him being able to do so along with what is happening in the Scan...   
 
 
 
 
That's already taken straight. We take feats from Zero Hour. But my point is. That fight with Spectre proves nothing. Spectre has been defeated/stopped/hurt by numerous character which shouldn't do such thing. Also the Spectre thing on which we debate has nothing to do with actual topic. Now to counter the scan you posted Agamotto powers up every Sorcerer Supreme in Marvel Multiverse. And give the fact that he is nigh-omniscent if not omniscent seen he is labeled as such + Eye of Agamotto which is titled as ALL SEING
IF you realize that The Spectre has been defeated by characters who should have not defeated him... then you also realize his power level is much greater than it was shown in those instances... Jobbing should not take away a character's base level of power if we know better... especially in the case of what we have here where basically Zero Hour Parallax and The Spectre was the big confrontation of a limited series for the intended character... you are correct the Spectre position does not directly deal with the battle at hand... but the showing gives us indication that ZH Parallax has defeated a High End Character in comparison to Agamotto... as well as the Universal Scale Feat he performed shows us that his power is of a Great Scale... now if you can actually show Agamotto using Multiversal Scale Powers... you could have a good case here... otherwise I have no reason at all to budge from my position... 
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#32  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
IF you realize that The Spectre has been defeated by characters who should have not defeated him... then you also realize his power level is much greater than it was shown in those instances... Jobbing should not take away a character's base level of power if we know better... especially in the case of what we have here where basically Zero Hour Parallax and The Spectre was the big confrontation of a limited series for the intended character... you are correct the Spectre position does not directly deal with the battle at hand... but the showing gives us indication that ZH Parallax has defeated a High End Character in comparison to Agamotto... as well as the Universal Scale Feat he performed shows us that his power is of a Great Scale... now if you can actually show Agamotto using Multiversal Scale Powers... you could have a good case here... otherwise I have no reason at all to budge from my position... 


Point is that Hal really didn't defeat Spectre. He had one good shot when Spectre says AHHHHH. Here is the scan 
 
  
 
That's the onl thing which he had on Spectre. Also to explain better to you why is Spectre vs Parallax irelevent. During Zero Hour DC only had one universe. The scan you posted with Hal/Spectre is after Infinite Crisis started and multiverse was recreated. During Zero Hour nor Spectre nor Parallax were multiversal forces. Since there wasn't multiverse. So using scans with Spectre's multiversal awarence is not valid this time since Spectre during Zero Hour was only multiversal force. 
 
About Agamotto being on multiversal.  He's title the ALL SEING is given to him because he observs the universe. Here is one scan that confirms he is multiversal 
 
 
Note when he states this dimension means nothing to me. He was refering to main Marvel universe 616. This is evident since he possesd Logan, Miss Marvel, Spidey and Ben Grimm of 616 + fact that this happened prior Brother Voodo becoming Sorcerer Supreme of 616.
 
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#33  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:

@King Saturn said:

IF you realize that The Spectre has been defeated by characters who should have not defeated him... then you also realize his power level is much greater than it was shown in those instances... Jobbing should not take away a character's base level of power if we know better... especially in the case of what we have here where basically Zero Hour Parallax and The Spectre was the big confrontation of a limited series for the intended character... you are correct the Spectre position does not directly deal with the battle at hand... but the showing gives us indication that ZH Parallax has defeated a High End Character in comparison to Agamotto... as well as the Universal Scale Feat he performed shows us that his power is of a Great Scale... now if you can actually show Agamotto using Multiversal Scale Powers... you could have a good case here... otherwise I have no reason at all to budge from my position... 



Point is that Hal really didn't defeat Spectre. He had one good shot when Spectre says AHHHHH. Here is the scan 
 
  
 
That's the onl thing which he had on Spectre. Also to explain better to you why is Spectre vs Parallax irelevent. During Zero Hour DC only had one universe. The scan you posted with Hal/Spectre is after Infinite Crisis started and multiverse was recreated. During Zero Hour nor Spectre nor Parallax were multiversal forces. Since there wasn't multiverse. So using scans with Spectre's multiversal awarence is not valid this time since Spectre during Zero Hour was only multiversal force. 
 
About Agamotto being on multiversal.  He's title the ALL SEING is given to him because he observs the universe. Here is one scan that confirms he is multiversal 
 
 
Note when he states this dimension means nothing to me. He was refering to main Marvel universe 616. This is evident since he possesd Logan, Miss Marvel, Spidey and Ben Grimm of 616 + fact that this happened prior Brother Voodo becoming Sorcerer Supreme of 616.
 
I will look back through Zero Hour because I remember it being more than that between ZH Parallax and The Spectre ( actually the battle was about 2 pages as a whole and who is to say Parallax did not defeat The Spectre their easy like that ? He did not come directly back into the fold against Parallax he was blown out by a blast... its not the best battle but apparently that is what happened  EDIT )... and on your second point... did not Parallax effect an entire Universe during Zero Hour ? so how could you say that Parallax was not a Universal Threat at the least ? also, why is it not possible Bound Spectre could not effect a specific Universe ? even if the scan is after Infinite Crisis... the character itself was not effected power wise by the change... whether it's Multiversal or Universal... the character should still be able to effect entire reality... whether the Multiverse is in effect or not... 
 
and in this last scan... how the heck does this prove that Agamotto is fully multiversal... or that he can effect things on a Multiversal scale ? why do you interpret a dimension to mean directly a specific Universe ? where is more of the actual scans to prove this ? 
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#34  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
 
I will look back through Zero Hour because I remember it being more than that between ZH Parallax and The Spectre... and on your second point... did not Parallax effect an entire Universe during Zero Hour ? so how could you say that Parallax was not a Universal Threat at the least ? also, why is it not possible Bound Spectre could not effect a specific Universe ? even if the scan is after Infinite Crisis... the character itself was not effected power wise by the change... whether it's Multiversal or Universal... the character should still be able to effect entire reality/realities...  
 
and in this last scan... how the heck does this prove that Agamotto is fully multiversal... or that he can effect things on a Multiversal scale ? why do you interpret a dimension to mean directly a specific Universe ? where is more of the actual scans to prove this ? 

 
My point is that you can't use scan with Spectre saying he has multiversal awarense to back up things from Zero Hour, because: 
 
- during Zero Hour there was only one universe, so Spectre at that time didn't had multiversal awarence 
- above point is proven furthere by the fact that Jim Corrigan was the the host and not Hal Jordan (you posted the scan of Hal Jordan as the host). It doesn't mean that Spectre with Jim Corrigan as host was as powerful as Spectre with Hal Jordan as host 
- the scan you posted is from Day Of Vengance series. At that time multiverse was recreated (Infinite Crisis) so Spectre could have multiversal awarense 
 
Understand now ? 
 
He refered to 616 as dimension. And it's evident that it's 616 since we have Strange, Spidey, Miss Marvel, Logan and Thing. Also why would Agamotto need to be multiversal when Hal/Parallax wasn't multiversal. heck Hal/Parallax wasn't even high - end universla like you claim. He started recreating the universe because Guardains told him how to do that. He didn't even destroyed the universe - he just deleted all the timelines andhe didn't acomplish that with his own power. He messed up with a Timestream and achived such thing. 
 
And i have never claimed that Agamotto is totaly multiversal - like MultiEternity. He has multiversal awarence. He observes multiverse and powers up every sorcerer supreme in the multiverse. Evidence that he can operate on more than one universe is the scan i posted. He states that 616 means nothing to him.
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#35  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
 
I will look back through Zero Hour because I remember it being more than that between ZH Parallax and The Spectre... and on your second point... did not Parallax effect an entire Universe during Zero Hour ? so how could you say that Parallax was not a Universal Threat at the least ? also, why is it not possible Bound Spectre could not effect a specific Universe ? even if the scan is after Infinite Crisis... the character itself was not effected power wise by the change... whether it's Multiversal or Universal... the character should still be able to effect entire reality/realities...  
 
and in this last scan... how the heck does this prove that Agamotto is fully multiversal... or that he can effect things on a Multiversal scale ? why do you interpret a dimension to mean directly a specific Universe ? where is more of the actual scans to prove this ? 
 My point is that you can't use scan with Spectre saying he has multiversal awarense to back up things from Zero Hour, because:  - during Zero Hour there was only one universe, so Spectre at that time didn't had multiversal awarence - above point is proven furthere by the fact that Jim Corrigan was the the host and not Hal Jordan (you posted the scan of Hal Jordan as the host). It doesn't mean that Spectre with Jim Corrigan as host was as powerful as Spectre with Hal Jordan as host - the scan you posted is from Day Of Vengance series. At that time multiverse was recreated (Infinite Crisis) so Spectre could have multiversal awarense  Understand now ?  He refered to 616 as dimension. And it's evident that it's 616 since we have Strange, Spidey, Miss Marvel, Logan and Thing. Also why would Agamotto need to be multiversal when Hal/Parallax wasn't multiversal. heck Hal/Parallax wasn't even high - end universla like you claim. He started recreating the universe because Guardains told him how to do that. He didn't even destroyed the universe - he just deleted all the timelines andhe didn't acomplish that with his own power. He messed up with a Timestream and achived such thing.  And i have never claimed that Agamotto is totaly multiversal - like MultiEternity. He has multiversal awarence. He observes multiverse and powers up every sorcerer supreme in the multiverse. Evidence that he can operate on more than one universe is the scan i posted. He states that 616 means nothing to him.
The Spectre does not directly say he is Multiversal though... he says he can call a Universe unto existance... that is no different than what Zero Hour Parallax literally showed on Panel altogether... yes, there was only One Universe during Zero Hour... but if The Spectre in that scan is only showing us the scale of basically creating a Universe... how can we know he literal scale of power is beyond that... even if he gave direct caption of being a Multiversal Force who could effect multiple universes... all that is on panel is him effecting a Universe... which would not make his power beyond the levels of a Universal Being... even if he knows of a Multiverse... the power scale still shows otherwise 
 
On Your Second Point... why does it matter that The Guardians told Parallax how to effect a Universe if he already had the Power to do so anyways ? if the Power is there then he is capable of being a Universal Scale threat... no matter how uninformed he is... secondly... I could have sworn I said " If you could show that Agamotto was a Multiversal Scale Threat you could budge my position " Agamotto does not need to be Multiversal... I just said if you could prove that he was then perhaps we could have more to discuss... but if all that we are gonna do is go over the fine details of a Zero Hour series... how good Parallax Universal Scale powers really were... then it's pointless... because if you can not directly show that Agamotto is on a level of power that is beyond Zero Hour Parallax then what is the point ? 
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as much as i love Agamotto, i believe Parallax has much better showings.. 

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#37  Edited By MKF30

ZHP

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#38  Edited By AMS

Yeah I thought I didn't see this scan in this thead......

No Caption Provided
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#39  Edited By MKF30

Neat scan.

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#40  Edited By TheFallenOne
@King Saturn said:
The Spectre does not directly say he is Multiversal though... he says he can call a Universe unto existance... that is no different than what Zero Hour Parallax literally showed on Panel altogether... yes, there was only One Universe during Zero Hour... but if The Spectre in that scan is only showing us the scale of basically creating a Universe... how can we know he literal scale of power is beyond that... even if he gave direct caption of being a Multiversal Force who could effect multiple universes... all that is on panel is him effecting a Universe... which would not make his power beyond the levels of a Universal Being... even if he knows of a Multiverse... the power scale still shows otherwise 
 
On Your Second Point... why does it matter that The Guardians told Parallax how to effect a Universe if he already had the Power to do so anyways ? if the Power is there then he is capable of being a Universal Scale threat... no matter how uninformed he is... secondly... I could have sworn I said " If you could show that Agamotto was a Multiversal Scale Threat you could budge my position " Agamotto does not need to be Multiversal... I just said if you could prove that he was then perhaps we could have more to discuss... but if all that we are gonna do is go over the fine details of a Zero Hour series... how good Parallax Universal Scale powers really were... then it's pointless... because if you can not directly show that Agamotto is on a level of power that is beyond Zero Hour Parallax then what is the point ? 


If he had the power to recreate the universe than he wouldn't go and kill all Guardians( in order for them to tell him how to recreate the universe). He would just do it with flick of his finger.  He deleted all timelines (by messing with Timestream). He put universe in the begining ot the time. Universe might even recreated it self from that point (i'm just to lazy to check the dialogues now).  
 
Fact is best feats Parallax has are stopping time and reigniting the Sun - nothing special for someone who would be at universal level. 
 
He was battling heroes - half of those heroes was no where near top tier 
He killed Guardians - aren't even skyfather level  
He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either 
 
And we have fight with Spectre. Well we can use showings when Agamotto along with Oshtur and Hoggoth beated Chthon (who would eat Jim Corrigan Spectre for breakfast). When Agamotto alng with other Vishanti members faced Slorioth - and universe would be destroyed as a side effect if LT didn't intervented. Than fight with Galactus. I can mention many fight in which he particapated or his power was invoked (by Strange). 
 
Fact that Agamotto observes the whole Multiverse (i posted the scan which confirms he is multiversaly-aware) is what tops him over Zero Hour Parallax (only doing things on universal scale). 
 
And just tell me how you know that ZH Parallax is above Agamotto ? You keep asking for feats - which indicates that you aren't familiar with Agamotto. And yet you debate in this thread. When i'm not familiar with some character i either don't debate or research about that char. In your case this can only prove your bias towards ZH Parallax.
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#41  Edited By TheFallenOne
@MKF30 said:
ZHP
 
Based on what ? And on the side note i bet that you don't even know who Agamotto is... 

@lord_oraculous016 said:
as much as i love Agamotto, i believe Parallax has much better showings.. 

Parallax's best showing is one from Zero Hour. And i already shown his feats from Zero Hour. For someone who is considered high-end universal his feats are nothing special. He at best was low-skyfather level. And i;ve seen you posting some good scans of Vishanti including Agamotto so can you help a little bit with feats. Since Agamotto's feats are impossible to find on net. And i don't have scanner. 
 
 
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#42  Edited By King_Saturn
@TheFallenOne said:
@King Saturn said:
The Spectre does not directly say he is Multiversal though... he says he can call a Universe unto existance... that is no different than what Zero Hour Parallax literally showed on Panel altogether... yes, there was only One Universe during Zero Hour... but if The Spectre in that scan is only showing us the scale of basically creating a Universe... how can we know he literal scale of power is beyond that... even if he gave direct caption of being a Multiversal Force who could effect multiple universes... all that is on panel is him effecting a Universe... which would not make his power beyond the levels of a Universal Being... even if he knows of a Multiverse... the power scale still shows otherwise 
 
On Your Second Point... why does it matter that The Guardians told Parallax how to effect a Universe if he already had the Power to do so anyways ? if the Power is there then he is capable of being a Universal Scale threat... no matter how uninformed he is... secondly... I could have sworn I said " If you could show that Agamotto was a Multiversal Scale Threat you could budge my position " Agamotto does not need to be Multiversal... I just said if you could prove that he was then perhaps we could have more to discuss... but if all that we are gonna do is go over the fine details of a Zero Hour series... how good Parallax Universal Scale powers really were... then it's pointless... because if you can not directly show that Agamotto is on a level of power that is beyond Zero Hour Parallax then what is the point ? 
If he had the power to recreate the universe than he wouldn't go and kill all Guardians( in order for them to tell him how to recreate the universe). He would just do it with flick of his finger.  He deleted all timelines (by messing with Timestream). He put universe in the begining ot the time. Universe might even recreated it self from that point (i'm just to lazy to check the dialogues now).   Fact is best feats Parallax has are stopping time and reigniting the Sun - nothing special for someone who would be at universal level.  He was battling heroes - half of those heroes was no where near top tier He killed Guardians - aren't even skyfather level  He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either  And we have fight with Spectre. Well we can use showings when Agamotto along with Oshtur and Hoggoth beated Chthon (who would eat Jim Corrigan Spectre for breakfast). When Agamotto alng with other Vishanti members faced Slorioth - and universe would be destroyed as a side effect if LT didn't intervented. Than fight with Galactus. I can mention many fight in which he particapated or his power was invoked (by Strange).  Fact that Agamotto observes the whole Multiverse (i posted the scan which confirms he is multiversaly-aware) is what tops him over Zero Hour Parallax (only doing things on universal scale).  And just tell me how you know that ZH Parallax is above Agamotto ? You keep asking for feats - which indicates that you aren't familiar with Agamotto. And yet you debate in this thread. When i'm not familiar with some character i either don't debate or research about that char. In your case this can only prove your bias towards ZH Parallax.
Aw Man... how many times do I have to go over this ? Having the power to do something is different than having the knowledge to as well... Parallax obviously had the power to recreate the Universe because he was able to do it after he was given the knowledge to do so... NOTHING in the series says that The Guardians gave Parallax the power to recreate the Universe... just the knowledge... his power output was not effected by the Guardians... he just gained the knowledge of what was needed to be done... and dude are you really going to say that Agamotto with assistance from 2 Powerful Magical Entities defeating Chthon is the same as Parallax defeating Spectre ? even if Chthon would defeat The Spectre... the fact is Agamotto did not defeat Chthon on his own did he... and so what he fought Galactus... Galactus is not directly above The Spectre in power either... and you know this man... and really dude... who cares what Agamotto is watching ? if he doesn't have any solid feats where he is doing something on a Massive Scale or actually defeating powerhouses by himself... Agamotto could be watching the Looney Tunes in his Underwear for all I care... it still would not matter... and sadly you end your post with an attack... if you remember correctly... I never asked for just general feats for Agamotto... just something that would show he is beyond Parallax... you can claim I am bias towards Parallax.. ( I guess that would make us even since I said you were Marvel bias )... though in truth even if I did not have a clue who Agamotto was... would it not be easy to show that Agamotto was beyond Parallax power if it were so ? It seems we are at the crossroads now... apparently this is where you would make another healthy post about how I am wrong... and then I would return the favor... so instead of just going back and forth... I would rather say " Deuces " and leave this alone... 
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war of light_2814

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Yep Trapper isn't skyfather.he's above that. 

No Caption Provided

   
 
 
 
 
 And what's more impressive is that Parallax kill him after he survive The entropy rift.
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#44  Edited By AMS
@TheFallenOne said:

 He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either  
 
Get your narrative straight before trying to play with the big boys.... 
 
@TheFallenOne said: 

 Thanks. De-evolving well that is debatable since he woudl need to deevolve the Trion's evil side basicly and I forgot to mention that Trion Juggy's power level constantly rises so it's unlogical for de-evolution to be effective. And not to mention that protection he has from Cyttorak won't alove it (even psi-blasts can't go through forcefield). Anyway i didn't though of absorbing (refering to Great Darkness Saga) since he has absorbed Mordru and Time Trapper (both should be at low-skyfather level). But for absorption I highly doubt that it will work. Since there are just too many factors against it.
 
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#45  Edited By TheFallenOne
@AMS said:
@TheFallenOne said:

 He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either  
 
Get your narrative straight before trying to play with the big boys.... 
 
@TheFallenOne said: 

 Thanks. De-evolving well that is debatable since he woudl need to deevolve the Trion's evil side basicly and I forgot to mention that Trion Juggy's power level constantly rises so it's unlogical for de-evolution to be effective. And not to mention that protection he has from Cyttorak won't alove it (even psi-blasts can't go through forcefield). Anyway i didn't though of absorbing (refering to Great Darkness Saga) since he has absorbed Mordru and Time Trapper (both should be at low-skyfather level). But for absorption I highly doubt that it will work. Since there are just too many factors against it.
 
 
 
Quoting my post which is several months old. Well many things changed since then. By the way if you notice i mention that Timetrapper should be a low-skyfater level - so it was under sigh "?" . And not to mention that low skyfather < skyfather. And side info this post was before i learned that he actually didn't destroyed the galaxy with his own power. 
 

@war of light_2814
said:
Yep Trapper isn't skyfather.he's above that. 
 
 
         And what's more impressive is that Parallax kill him after he survive The entropy rift.

Odin has far better feats than that. And many things are impressive than Parallax killing him. 
 
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@TheFallenOne said:

@AMS said:

@TheFallenOne said:

 He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either  
 
Get your narrative straight before trying to play with the big boys.... 
 
@TheFallenOne said: 

 Thanks. De-evolving well that is debatable since he woudl need to deevolve the Trion's evil side basicly and I forgot to mention that Trion Juggy's power level constantly rises so it's unlogical for de-evolution to be effective. And not to mention that protection he has from Cyttorak won't alove it (even psi-blasts can't go through forcefield). Anyway i didn't though of absorbing (refering to Great Darkness Saga) since he has absorbed Mordru and Time Trapper (both should be at low-skyfather level). But for absorption I highly doubt that it will work. Since there are just too many factors against it.
 
 
 
Quoting my post which is several months old. Well many things changed since then. By the way if you notice i mention that Timetrapper

should be a low-skyfater level - so it was under sigh "?" .

And not to mention that low skyfather < skyfather. And side info this post was before i learned that he actually didn't destroyed the galaxy with his own power. 

 

@war of light_2814

said:
Yep Trapper isn't skyfather.he's above that. 
No Caption Provided
         And what's more impressive is that Parallax kill him after he survive The entropy rift.
Odin has far better feats than that. And many things are impressive than Parallax killing him.  
Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.
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#47  Edited By AMS
@TheFallenOne said:
@AMS said:
@TheFallenOne said:

 He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either  
 
Get your narrative straight before trying to play with the big boys.... 
 
@TheFallenOne said: 

 Thanks. De-evolving well that is debatable since he woudl need to deevolve the Trion's evil side basicly and I forgot to mention that Trion Juggy's power level constantly rises so it's unlogical for de-evolution to be effective. And not to mention that protection he has from Cyttorak won't alove it (even psi-blasts can't go through forcefield). Anyway i didn't though of absorbing (refering to Great Darkness Saga) since he has absorbed Mordru and Time Trapper (both should be at low-skyfather level). But for absorption I highly doubt that it will work. Since there are just too many factors against it.
 
 
 
Quoting my post which is several months old. Well many things changed since then. By the way if you notice i mention that Timetrapper should be a low-skyfater level - so it was under sigh "?" . And not to mention that low skyfather < skyfather. And side info this post was before i learned that he actually didn't destroyed the galaxy with his own power. 
 

@war of light_2814
said:
Yep Trapper isn't skyfather.he's above that. 
No Caption Provided
         And what's more impressive is that Parallax kill him after he survive The entropy rift.
Odin has far better feats than that. And many things are impressive than Parallax killing him.  
Explain to us all why you think Time Trapper isn't at least Skyfather level in power then?  
 
Pulling Odin out of the bag to bring any from of credence to your claims is as desperate as it gets, Odin would trash Zeus especially on  feats alone but Zeus is still Skyfather level. Pre Crisis Darkseid absorbing Mordru and Time Trapper doesn't make them any less of a threat at all.... 
 
Save the 'quoted my old post boo hoo' excuses when  '' He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either''   was merely  Posted 19 hours, 32 minutes ago 
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#48  Edited By demifiend

still with this crap.... parallax takes this.!

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#49  Edited By TheFallenOne
@war of light_2814 said:
Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.  
 
 
He didn't removed the universe. I heard for that feat and it was just timeline(anyway i haven't seen the scan confirming it just rumor on Vine). By the way scan you posted can't be read. And when Parallax attacked him he for sure didn't survive universe busting - stop overhyping things. Plus Odin has been shown 4 times fighting on high end universal level inlcuding at the same time fight on all planes of reality(with Seth) + in every timeline(with Seth).

@AMS said:
Explain to us all why you think Time Trapper isn't at least Skyfather level in power then?  
 
Pulling Odin out of the bag to bring any from of credence to your claims is as desperate as it gets, Odin would trash Zeus especially on  feats alone but Zeus is still Skyfather level. Pre Crisis Darkseid absorbing Mordru and Time Trapper doesn't make them any less of a threat at all.... 
 
Save the 'quoted my old post boo hoo' excuses when  '' He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either''   was merely  Posted 19 hours, 32 minutes ago 


First of all Zeus was stated as equal to Odin. Second i don't know what are you trying to prove with quoting my posts. I posted TT should be low - skyfather level in this thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/pc-darkseid-vs-trion-juggernaut/599402/? . As you can see that thread is more than 4 months old. And several things changed since than. I learned on TT more. And quoting my old post was pointles since should be low skyfather = not skyfather level, since low skyfather =/= skyfather level like Odin is. Anyway back on topic. 
 
 Time Trapper hasn't dispalyed feat as destroying galaxy with his own power. He busted a galaxy with Concetrator weapon or using the anti-matter (i can't remember coretcly). 
 
He survived Entropy Rift because he is corporeal embodiment of Entropy itself, not because he has universal durability. Further Entropy Rifts, that were used by Extant in Zero Hour, to delete timelines were not universe busters. Entropy rifts were just deleting timelines. Plus Entropy Rift that seamingly killed TT happened in the timeline - which was DCU at the end of time. Basicly that timeline wasn't deleted since there was no time to delete, and that's how ZH Parallax entered the Timestream.  
 
Before Parallax becoming the master of Timestream it was TT who was master of Timestream. 
 
Hi biggest feat is creating the pocket universe. But he achived that by altering the Timestream  and not his own power. That's why we can't take that feat as a pure example of his power. Feat was acomplished by manipulating the Timestream (in which he was residing) and not by his own power. Furthere Timestream could be manipulated even by others and not just him. One example is Parallax. And that's what makes Timestream basilcy a device for acomplishing feats - and not unique thing of Time Trapper (if he was the only one who could manipulate with Timestream than we could dicuss if we should take it as pure feat of power or not) 
 
Also he supposedly took one timeline out of Timestream (feat which user war of light represents as universe). Again he acomplished that feat by manipulating the Timestream. It was some Pre-Crisis stuff, and i don't really know if the above scan is that feat since it's unreadable.
 
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PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE STOMPED THAT'S WHAT YOU RECIEVE FROM TALKING ABOUT STUFF YOU KNOW NOTHING OF.
@TheFallenOne said:

@war of light_2814 said:

Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.  
 
 
He didn't removed the universe. I heard for that feat and it was just timeline(anyway i haven't seen the scan confirming it just rumor on Vine). By the way scan you posted can't be read. And when Parallax attacked him he for sure didn't survive universe busting - stop overhyping things. Plus Odin has been shown 4 times fighting on high end universal level inlcuding at the same time fight on all planes of reality(with Seth) + in every timeline(with Seth).

Oh yeah? can't be read Yet you still say Odin have more impressive feats so your lie from the very begining then.I didn't said Parallax attack is universe busting I was refer to the entropy rift .those feats are meanless Odin others appearance suggest that he's isn't on such a level.

@TheFallenOne

said:

@war of light_2814 said:

Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.  
 
 
He didn't removed the universe. I heard for that feat and it was just timeline(anyway i haven't seen the scan confirming it just rumor on Vine). By the way scan you posted can't be read. And when Parallax attacked him he for sure didn't survive universe busting - stop overhyping things. Plus Odin has been shown 4 times fighting on high end universal level inlcuding at the same time fight on all planes of reality(with Seth) + in every timeline(with Seth).


@AMS

said:

Explain to us all why you think Time Trapper isn't at least Skyfather level in power then?  
 
Pulling Odin out of the bag to bring any from of credence to your claims is as desperate as it gets, Odin would trash Zeus especially on  feats alone but Zeus is still Skyfather level. Pre Crisis Darkseid absorbing Mordru and Time Trapper doesn't make them any less of a threat at all.... 
 
Save the 'quoted my old post boo hoo' excuses when  '' He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either''   was merely  Posted 19 hours, 32 minutes ago 



First of all Zeus was stated as equal to Odin. Second i don't know what are you trying to prove with quoting my posts. I posted TT should be low - skyfather level in this thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/pc-darkseid-vs-trion-juggernaut/599402/? . As you can see that thread is more than 4 months old. And several things changed since than. I learned on TT more. And quoting my old post was pointles since should be low skyfather = not skyfather level, since low skyfather =/= skyfather level like Odin is. Anyway back on topic. 
 
 Time Trapper hasn't dispalyed feat as destroying galaxy with his own power. He busted a galaxy with Concetrator weapon or using the anti-matter (i can't remember coretcly).
 

1I never said that2.It was pre-crisis which later retcon to be the controller .

@TheFallenOne

said:

@war of light_2814 said:

Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.  
 
 
He didn't removed the universe. I heard for that feat and it was just timeline(anyway i haven't seen the scan confirming it just rumor on Vine). By the way scan you posted can't be read. And when Parallax attacked him he for sure didn't survive universe busting - stop overhyping things. Plus Odin has been shown 4 times fighting on high end universal level inlcuding at the same time fight on all planes of reality(with Seth) + in every timeline(with Seth).


@AMS

said:

Explain to us all why you think Time Trapper isn't at least Skyfather level in power then?  
 
Pulling Odin out of the bag to bring any from of credence to your claims is as desperate as it gets, Odin would trash Zeus especially on  feats alone but Zeus is still Skyfather level. Pre Crisis Darkseid absorbing Mordru and Time Trapper doesn't make them any less of a threat at all.... 
 
Save the 'quoted my old post boo hoo' excuses when  '' He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either''   was merely  Posted 19 hours, 32 minutes ago 



First of all Zeus was stated as equal to Odin. Second i don't know what are you trying to prove with quoting my posts. I posted TT should be low - skyfather level in this thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/pc-darkseid-vs-trion-juggernaut/599402/? . As you can see that thread is more than 4 months old. And several things changed since than. I learned on TT more. And quoting my old post was pointles since should be low skyfather = not skyfather level, since low skyfather =/= skyfather level like Odin is. Anyway back on topic. 
 
 Time Trapper hasn't dispalyed feat as destroying galaxy with his own power. He busted a galaxy with Concetrator weapon or using the anti-matter (i can't remember coretcly). 
 
He survived Entropy Rift because he is corporeal embodiment of Entropy itself, not because he has universal durability. Further Entropy Rifts, that were used by Extant in Zero Hour, to delete timelines were not universe busters. Entropy rifts were just deleting timelines.
So you basiccally Accept that he's an abstract ? 2.make no different we clearly see Entropy rift destroy everything

@TheFallenOne

said:

@war of light_2814 said:

Far better feat?he can remove the universe out of time stream and had Odin ever survive universe busting.not really important Trapper is an abstract.  
 
 
He didn't removed the universe. I heard for that feat and it was just timeline(anyway i haven't seen the scan confirming it just rumor on Vine). By the way scan you posted can't be read. And when Parallax attacked him he for sure didn't survive universe busting - stop overhyping things. Plus Odin has been shown 4 times fighting on high end universal level inlcuding at the same time fight on all planes of reality(with Seth) + in every timeline(with Seth).


@AMS

said:

Explain to us all why you think Time Trapper isn't at least Skyfather level in power then?  
 
Pulling Odin out of the bag to bring any from of credence to your claims is as desperate as it gets, Odin would trash Zeus especially on  feats alone but Zeus is still Skyfather level. Pre Crisis Darkseid absorbing Mordru and Time Trapper doesn't make them any less of a threat at all.... 
 
Save the 'quoted my old post boo hoo' excuses when  '' He killed Timetrapper - isn't skyfather level either''   was merely  Posted 19 hours, 32 minutes ago 



Hi biggest feat is creating the pocket universe. But he achived that by altering the Timestream  and not his own power. That's why we can't take that feat as a pure example of his power. Feat was acomplished by manipulating the Timestream (in which he was residing) and not by his own power. Furthere Timestream could be manipulated even by others and not just him. One example is Parallax. And that's what makes Timestream basilcy a device for acomplishing feats - and not unique thing of Time Trapper (if he was the only one who could manipulate with Timestream than we could dicuss if we should take it as pure feat of power or not) 


Stop making the things up.He did that by slice a fraction of time out of the timestream

@TheFallenOne

said:


 
Also he supposedly took one timeline out of Timestream (feat which user war of light represents as universe). Again he acomplished that feat by manipulating the Timestream. It was some Pre-Crisis stuff, and i don't really know if the above scan is that feat since it's unreadable.
 

Again stop making the things up.It's post-crisis  and yes It's that one.If you can't read it then go to my gallery.   You don't even realize that  Two of his feats you refered to are the same one So I  don't  understand  why I Should Debate at all Besides Hal become spectre in DoJ and depart in GL:rebirth That's  Before IC 
Learn TT more?don't make me laugh the post alone make me sure that you got all that from wikipedia and the vine which,Ironically some of them was edited by me.
If you don't know What you're talking about,then leave.