#1 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

It's many years in the future, Franklin is in full control of his powers. his parents are off on one of their many missions. The Avenger and Mighty Avengers are pre occupied. His telepathic mind pick up a powerful presence baring down on the earth. It's Jean Grey,but this time Dark Phoenix is in control,her intentions are clear destroy the earth. He flies into space to confront the entity between earth and mars.

Let the battle begin.

#2 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Keep in mind Franklin can control all form of energy and reality itself on a cosmic scale. But so can the Phoenix.

Franklin will one day be one of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse. Who wins.

#3 Posted by cracks (6781 posts) - - Show Bio
@E-MAN: Phoenix.       %Pr
#4 Posted by Hellos (8914 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix, Franklin at best in any incarnation was around celestial level. Minus the reality he made himself into Galactus in.
#5 Posted by The Phoenix Child (561 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix unless Franklin decides to attack in a different level... he goes to the past and kills Jean Grey's ancestors.

#6 Posted by cracks (6781 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Phoenix Child: The Phoenix Force itself would tie with Galactus if both were at full power.       %Pr
#7 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@cracks
Wrong. Phoenix is Multiversal entity that created (and one day will destroy) Galactus.
#8 Posted by Jezer (3127 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@cracks: Wrong. Phoenix is Multiversal entity that created (and one day will destroy) Galactus.

Do you realize how ridiculous it is to directly quote a post from 2 years ago and go "wrong" to someone who hasn't posted in 2 years?

#9 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

#10 Posted by CreamPieMe (58 posts) - - Show Bio

Richards head is going up someone's A$$

#11 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

#12 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@cracks: Wrong. Phoenix is Multiversal entity that created (and one day will destroy) Galactus.

No White Phoenix of the Crown is Mulitversal. Standard PF is Universal.

#13 Posted by torzone (409 posts) - - Show Bio

Phoenix

#14 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skaddix said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@cracks: Wrong. Phoenix is Multiversal entity that created (and one day will destroy) Galactus.

No White Phoenix of the Crown is Mulitversal. Standard PF is Universal.

White Phoenix is just the complete merger of Jean with the Phoenix force proper, she had become White Phoenix before right after being Dark Phoenix because when the Phoenix takes Jean as a template it is the full force, the Phoenix didn't start coming in fractions on a universal level until Rachel was able to tap the part that as green Phoenix and the part that was dark Phoenix went to Maddie. A Jean/Phoenix combo in an alternate reality was considered a potential threat to the multiverse by the Living Tribunal and all his appearances are canon. The Phoenix that contacted Feron was more powerful than an omniversal convergence of power.

#15 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

Come back to the vine after the longest time to see such fallacies posted about the Phoenix Force on the site still :/

The Phoenix Force never had anything to do with Galactus's creation. All abstracts were created by the original Big Bang, which is not the Phoenix Force. It's even stated that Phoenix was born from the Big Bang. Funny that you post that scan with Reed Richards, b/c Reed actually saw the Marvel Universe get remade with the power of the Big Bang, which came from the Alien Entity, not Phoenix.

#16 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

Come back to the vine after the longest time to see such fallacies posted about the Phoenix Force on the site still :/

The Phoenix Force never had anything to do with Galactus's creation. All abstracts were created by the original Big Bang, which is not the Phoenix Force. It's even stated that Phoenix was born from the Big Bang. Funny that you post that scan with Reed Richards, b/c Reed actually saw the Marvel Universe get remade with the power of the Big Bang, which came from the Alien Entity, not Phoenix.

Then go back where you came from. The Phoenix is stated to many times on panel (above for example) as being the spark that starts the big bang the the big bang itself for me to entertain your attempts at low balling. There is evidence right in your face and you still spread lies. It was born in the void between states not the big bang.

I guess you'll post several different scans showing the creation of Marvel from different stories and then claiming they all are connected? You'll say the Alien entity did it, then the Infinity being, right? When the Phoenix causing and being the big bang is much more consistent canonically than what you will post.

Try reading carefully what Reed says above, the energies of creation, the Phoenix Force or what have you...translation, call it what you want it's all the same thing.

#17 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

Come back to the vine after the longest time to see such fallacies posted about the Phoenix Force on the site still :/

The Phoenix Force never had anything to do with Galactus's creation. All abstracts were created by the original Big Bang, which is not the Phoenix Force. It's even stated that Phoenix was born from the Big Bang. Funny that you post that scan with Reed Richards, b/c Reed actually saw the Marvel Universe get remade with the power of the Big Bang, which came from the Alien Entity, not Phoenix.

Then go back where you came from. The Phoenix is stated to many times on panel (above for example) as being the spark that starts the big bang the the big bang itself for me to entertain your attempts at low balling. There is evidence right in your face and you still spread lies. It was born in the void between states not the big bang.

A statement from a fallible character means nothing to artist depictions being shown on panel. You Phoenix fanboys are the absolute worst.

Here's the real spark that ignites creation, being created by the Alien Entity with RR's help.

Spare us your lies please. Thanks.

#18 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

Come back to the vine after the longest time to see such fallacies posted about the Phoenix Force on the site still :/

The Phoenix Force never had anything to do with Galactus's creation. All abstracts were created by the original Big Bang, which is not the Phoenix Force. It's even stated that Phoenix was born from the Big Bang. Funny that you post that scan with Reed Richards, b/c Reed actually saw the Marvel Universe get remade with the power of the Big Bang, which came from the Alien Entity, not Phoenix.

Then go back where you came from. The Phoenix is stated to many times on panel (above for example) as being the spark that starts the big bang the the big bang itself for me to entertain your attempts at low balling. There is evidence right in your face and you still spread lies. It was born in the void between states not the big bang.

A statement from a fallible character means nothing to artist depictions being shown on panel. You Phoenix fanboys are the absolute worst.

Here's the real spark that ignites creation, being created by the Alien Entity with RR's help.

Spare us your lies please. Thanks.

Predictable....are you gonna talk about the Infinity being next? If I'm not mistaken you also argue tooth and nail that it created everything, you can't even pick which lie to spread. Canon is on my side while you have several stories that all contradict each other.

#19 Posted by Saren (25613 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel's editor is on my side, and he says Odin is more powerful than the Phoenix.

Tom Brevoort > you.

Moderator
#20 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Marvel's editor is on my side, and he says Odin is more powerful than the Phoenix.

Tom Brevoort > you.

Who's talking to you?

#21 Posted by Saren (25613 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

Marvel's editor is on my side, and he says Odin is more powerful than the Phoenix.

Tom Brevoort > you.

Who's talking to you?

Aww.

Moderator
#22 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

Marvel's editor is on my side, and he says Odin is more powerful than the Phoenix.

Tom Brevoort > you.

Who's talking to you?

Aww.

No seriously.

#23 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

Predictable....are you gonna talk about the Infinity being next? If I'm not mistaken you also argue tooth and nail that it created everything, you can't even pick which lie to spread. Canon is on my side while you have several stories that all contradict each other.

See, this is why it's good for you to learn Marvel continuity before making claims. The Infinity Being created the original Marvel Universe from the first universe, at least originally. Marvel changed the continuity to make the M'Krann crystal the destroyer of the original universe when the Infinity Being killed itself. Anyway, Marvel was recreated four times after that: first by Sise-Neg, then by Genis/Entropy, then by Thanos, and finally by the Alien Entity. The Phoenix Force was never involved.

And canon on your side? LOL. There's not a single on-panel depiction of the Phoenix Force creating anything. I've got on-panel evidence through artistic depiction and you have a statement in a word bubble...lol. And btw, the Force itself was born from the Big Bang.

"The Force was subsequently reborn from the cosmic fires of the 'Big Bang'..."

#24 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

Predictable....are you gonna talk about the Infinity being next? If I'm not mistaken you also argue tooth and nail that it created everything, you can't even pick which lie to spread. Canon is on my side while you have several stories that all contradict each other.

See, this is why it's good for you to learn Marvel continuity before making claims. The Infinity Being created the original Marvel Universe from the first universe, at least originally. Marvel changed the continuity to make the M'Krann crystal the destroyer of the original universe when the Infinity Being killed itself. Anyway, Marvel was recreated four times after that: first by Sise-Neg, then by Genis/Entropy, then by Thanos, and finally by the Alien Entity. The Phoenix Force was never involved.

And canon on your side? LOL. There's not a single on-panel depiction of the Phoenix Force creating anything. I've got on-panel evidence through artistic depiction and you have a statement in a word bubble...lol. And btw, the Force itself was born from the Big Bang.

"The Force was subsequently reborn from the cosmic fires of the 'Big Bang'..."

I end this with the you actually typing that the Phoenix was REBORN, which suggests that it was around before and as the Watcher, Eternity and Death state sparked the first. And then there is the fact that Marvel has connected the power of the Crystal directly to the Phoenix , and shown that the nexus that the crystal contains is the White Hot Room, the heart of creation and the Phoenix. TOAA is the responsible for the creation of Marvel it created the Phoenix as it's vehicle to express that creation and will use it again to destroy that creation in the natural order. The natural order (as we have all seen on panel many times) can be upset and those four examples you mention are nothing more than instances of that happening. In the end it is still the Phoenix according to one that Watches everything, the Omniveral Guardian and Death that is responsible for life.

I'll post it again since you don't seem to understand, call it what you want, the energy of creation is what is used in any of these events and one of it's names is the Phoenix.

#25 Posted by Saren (25613 posts) - - Show Bio

Moderator
#26 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

That would make sense if it weren't shown that Death must have been telling the truth that time because Jean and Phoenix became one on panel, barring a full on retcon, I don't see your point

#27 Posted by Saren (25613 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

That would make sense if it weren't shown that Death must have been telling the truth that time because Jean and Phoenix became one on panel, barring a full on retcon, I don't see your point

I don't need one considering the source.

Moderator
#28 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

That would make sense if it weren't shown that Death must have been telling the truth that time because Jean and Phoenix became one on panel, barring a full on retcon, I don't see your point

I don't need one considering the source.

Of course you do, he's not the creator he's the editor and so far he has not edited the story so now he is just a guy talking about what he would like. Aren't you the go by feats and on panel evidence guy? Nothing on panel has suggested Death lied, so again what is your point?

#29 Posted by Saren (25613 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

That would make sense if it weren't shown that Death must have been telling the truth that time because Jean and Phoenix became one on panel, barring a full on retcon, I don't see your point

I don't need one considering the source.

Of course you do, he's not the creator he's the editor and so far he has not edited the story so now he is just a guy talking about what he would like. Aren't you the go by feats and on panel evidence guy? Nothing on panel has suggested Death lied, so again what is your point?

Not sure why that matters considering he is currently in charge of a story concerning the Phoenix, so what he would like is what will actually happen. Sure, I like on-panel evidence but the creator/writer/editor's word always takes precedence over that. It's like........on-panel evidence is C-canon, and Brevoort's word is G-canon.

Moderator
#30 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4007 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

That would make sense if it weren't shown that Death must have been telling the truth that time because Jean and Phoenix became one on panel, barring a full on retcon, I don't see your point

I don't need one considering the source.

Of course you do, he's not the creator he's the editor and so far he has not edited the story so now he is just a guy talking about what he would like. Aren't you the go by feats and on panel evidence guy? Nothing on panel has suggested Death lied, so again what is your point?

Not sure why that matters considering he is currently in charge of a story concerning the Phoenix, so what he would like is what will actually happen. Sure, I like on-panel evidence but the creator/writer/editor's word always takes precedence over that. It's like........on-panel evidence is C-canon, and Brevoort's word is G-canon.

His words can't be canon until they are on panel, until then they are just words.

His story concerning the Phoenix does not even definitively state what aspect of the Phoenix we are even dealing with, there are billions of pieces unaccounted for. So we'll wait and watch, and if it all changes then the battle forum will just make a distinction beween pre retcon Phoenix and post retcon Phoenix as it does with other characters that Marvel changes. If the creators/writers/editors words are the holy grail then it should be no problem for you to accept what they said about the Phoenix being second only to the creator and being the manifestain of the creators passion, but you clearly have taken issue with those words in previous debates

#31 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans said:


                   

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did



                   

               

Oh snap what was that X? Im spreading lies? Well at least this scans says OUTRIGHT unlike the scans you posted that were clear as mud.


                   

 

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans said:



                   

@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@X_insignia1 said:

what was the point of bumping this?

and the phoenix never created Galactus

stop spreading such lies

Yes it did

Come back to the vine after the longest time to see such fallacies posted about the Phoenix Force on the site still :/

The Phoenix Force never had anything to do with Galactus's creation. All abstracts were created by the original Big Bang, which is not the Phoenix Force. It's even stated that Phoenix was born from the Big Bang. Funny that you post that scan with Reed Richards, b/c Reed actually saw the Marvel Universe get remade with the power of the Big Bang, which came from the Alien Entity, not Phoenix.

Then go back where you came from. The Phoenix is stated to many times on panel (above for example) as being the spark that starts the big bang the the big bang itself for me to entertain your attempts at low balling. There is evidence right in your face and you still spread lies. It was born in the void between states not the big bang.

I guess you'll post several different scans showing the creation of Marvel from different stories and then claiming they all are connected? You'll say the Alien entity did it, then the Infinity being, right? When the Phoenix causing and being the big bang is much more consistent canonically than what you will post.

Try reading carefully what Reed says above, the energies of creation, the Phoenix Force or what have you...translation, call it what you want it's all the same thing.



 
 
 
Snap               
#33 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, on the subject of the battle, I believe the Phoenix wins here.

#34 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

my scans were clear, read FF #530

the explanation has already been given

#35 Posted by Enosisik (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the funniest argument ever !! 

#36 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

this thread has gotten way off task

anywho Franklin may have a chance

given it's performance from A v X