Adam Warlock w/ IG vs Lucifer Morningstar

Adam Warlock w/ Infinity Gauntlet vs Lucifer Morningstar

Who wins?

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Warlock with IG.

(This is likely going to change very soon once the Hickman's run of Avengers / New Avengers is over)

@Killemall said:

Warlock with IG.

(This is likely going to change very soon once the Hickman's run of Avengers / New Avengers is over)

Lucifer is like second to Presence though.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Lucifer is like second to Presence though.

Well before Hickman retcon, so where infinity gauntlet. The only person above it was Living Tribunal as the respresentative who is even above Gods (TOAA).

Also Lucifer has 2 bother, of similar power though.

@Killemall said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Lucifer is like second to Presence though.

Well before Hickman retcon, so where infinity gauntlet. The only person above it was Living Tribunal as the respresentative who is even above Gods (TOAA).

Also Lucifer has 2 bother, of similar power though.

Lucifer just seems really powerful. He hasn't lost yet, and everybody he encounters are scared of him.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Lucifer just seems really powerful. He hasn't lost yet, and everybody he encounters are scared of him.

True, but on the other hand Adam w/ IG was so powerful that even Living Tribunal didnt want to mess with him.

@ShootingNova said:

The Living Tribunal being scared of IG Adam doesn't necessarily mean Adam is stronger, as this happens plenty of times in Marvel.

But if it does, then Adam wins. I'm pretty certain the Living Tribunal could beat Lucifer.

I dont think it meant that LT necessarily thought Adam was more powerful, but simply that either: 1) Adam might win, or 2) the fight might be bad enough that LT would win but with unacceptable amounts of collateral damage to the multi/omni-verse.

Stalemate or Lucifer wins .

@Killemall said:

Warlock with IG.

(This is likely going to change very soon once the Hickman's run of Avengers / New Avengers is over)

Sadly speaking , it already did . From Fantastic Four to Avengers , Hickman pooped , pissed and puked all over what things like the IG , UN and Starbrand stood for in Marvel . And in his New Avengers issue , he literally killed off the 616-gems . The moment I saw that panel of the gems shattering , something died within me as well .

@CitizenBane: That... I... there are no words to describe the level of.. What...the... You know what. I'm just going to pretend that a long time ago, Warlock switched out the real Infinity Gauntlet with a very convincing lesser fake and spread them around the multiverse so nobody can have the real Infinity Gauntlet and thus removing it as a threat and it was one of those cheap knock off fakes that was broken... To spare my sanity

@Hyper_God said:

Stalemate or Lucifer wins .

@CitizenBane: @Hyper_God: I just read the comics, correct me if i am wrong but isnt it direct contradiction to what happened during Infinity Wars, where Magus with Incomplete Gem merged 2 universes and Warlock with the same IG separate the two universes again? Because pushing the universe with via pushing the earth, is similar to separating 2 universes that have merged together right?

@WillPayton said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Lucifer just seems really powerful. He hasn't lost yet, and everybody he encounters are scared of him.

True, but on the other hand Adam w/ IG was so powerful that even Living Tribunal didnt want to mess with him.

Didn't know that.

Haven't read the New Avengers yet, but IIRC, the IG once gives Thanos the ability to restore the entire Universe...similar to Lucifer, but Lucifer done it with his brother though.

Lucifer

@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane: @Hyper_God: I just read the comics, correct me if i am wrong but isnt it direct contradiction to what happened during Infinity Wars, where Magus with Incomplete Gem merged 2 universes and Warlock with the same IG separate the two universes again? Because pushing the universe with via pushing the earth, is similar to separating 2 universes that have merged together right?

The point is that Hickman retconned their power scale in his Fantastic Four run . For some strange reason , he liberally borrowed the idea about the infinity gems being limited to their native universes from the non-canon DC crossover , and completely ignored the manner in which they have been canonically portrayed in Marvel's own stories like Infinity War and Ultraverse . Frustratingly shitty and eyebrow raising , but nothing you or I can do about it .

And it's not the first time he's interpreted mainstream Marvel concepts using non-canon sources . He represented Celestial births in his SHIELD run , the same way as they happened in Earth X , even though in the Blue Celestial arc(another canon story) , it was shown that a whole galaxy needs to be collapsed for a Celestial to be born .

@GodDamnIronMan said:

Haven't read the New Avengers yet, but IIRC, the IG once gives Thanos the ability to restore the entire Universe...similar to Lucifer, but Lucifer done it with his brother though.

Lucifer did it on a multiversal scale.

That said, the prevailing notion is that 616 IG was strong enough to contest LT on its own, and that should be enough to stop Lucifer. Lucifer is incredibly powerful and has multiversal level reality warping, but only has omniscience in his own multiverse, and as the fight isn't stated to take place there, he wouldn't not be as powerful nor as all knowing as Adam with IG. Lucifer could probably give him hell, and if his mutliversal explosion tanking feat is anything to go by, would take awhile to put down, but 616 IG should be more powerful.

@Dredeuced: When did Lucifer become omniscient in his reality ?

@Hyper_God said:

@Dredeuced: When did Lucifer become omniscient in his reality ?

When he was being attacked by those indestructible shadow creatures, he knew exactly how their powers worked, where every being they were using as a host were, and killed them all. I suppose you could argue some things slip by him, but then again, none of the IG owners showed true omniscience, just the capability to know all they wanted.

You could argue that he was just familiar with the creatures, but it doesn't explain how he knew exactly who their hosts were. It's a bit of a leap of logic, but not a great one.

@Dredeuced: If you're talking about the Basanos , nope , there was absolutely no indication that he was omniscient in that encounter . The fact that you would even mention that Lucifer has omniscience causes me to suspect that you've never read a Lucifer comic in your life and that all your knowledge about the character comes from second-hand accounts from online sources .

@Dredeuced said:

@GodDamnIronMan said:

Haven't read the New Avengers yet, but IIRC, the IG once gives Thanos the ability to restore the entire Universe...similar to Lucifer, but Lucifer done it with his brother though.

Lucifer did it on a multiversal scale.

That said, the prevailing notion is that 616 IG was strong enough to contest LT on its own, and that should be enough to stop Lucifer. Lucifer is incredibly powerful and has multiversal level reality warping, but only has omniscience in his own multiverse, and as the fight isn't stated to take place there, he wouldn't not be as powerful nor as all knowing as Adam with IG. Lucifer could probably give him hell, and if his mutliversal explosion tanking feat is anything to go by, would take awhile to put down, but 616 IG should be more powerful.

Even LT admit that the IG would put him down... IIRC, Thanos w/IG surprises the TOAA... Magus merge 2 Universe together using an INCOMPLETE IG.

@Hyper_God said:

@Dredeuced: If you're talking about the Basanos , nope , there was absolutely no indication that he was omniscient in that encounter . The fact that you would even mention that Lucifer has omniscience causes me to suspect that you've never read a Lucifer comic in your life and that all your knowledge about the character comes from second-hand accounts from online sources .

Yep, someone has a different opinion than you, clearly they're stupid. I wasn't even talking about the Basanos, but thanks for misinterpreting me and being a dick about it.

@GodDamnIronMan said:

@Dredeuced said:

@GodDamnIronMan said:

Haven't read the New Avengers yet, but IIRC, the IG once gives Thanos the ability to restore the entire Universe...similar to Lucifer, but Lucifer done it with his brother though.

Lucifer did it on a multiversal scale.

That said, the prevailing notion is that 616 IG was strong enough to contest LT on its own, and that should be enough to stop Lucifer. Lucifer is incredibly powerful and has multiversal level reality warping, but only has omniscience in his own multiverse, and as the fight isn't stated to take place there, he wouldn't not be as powerful nor as all knowing as Adam with IG. Lucifer could probably give him hell, and if his mutliversal explosion tanking feat is anything to go by, would take awhile to put down, but 616 IG should be more powerful.

Even LT admit that the IG would put him down... IIRC, Thanos w/IG surprises the TOAA... Magus merge 2 Universe together using an INCOMPLETE IG.

LT did not admit the IG would put him down. Thanos did not surprise TOAA -- no one has surprised the actual TOAA since TOAA is just the writer (unless you mean the Celestial, in which case it's not very relevant).

@Dredeuced said:

@Hyper_God said:

@Dredeuced: If you're talking about the Basanos , nope , there was absolutely no indication that he was omniscient in that encounter . The fact that you would even mention that Lucifer has omniscience causes me to suspect that you've never read a Lucifer comic in your life and that all your knowledge about the character comes from second-hand accounts from online sources .

Yep, someone has a different opinion than you, clearly they're stupid. I wasn't even talking about the Basanos, but thanks for misinterpreting me and being a dick about it.

Then whom were you talking about ? And yes , the point about you bringing up Lucifer's non-existent omniscience still stands , because even if you weren't referring to the Basanos , only someone ignorant of Lucifer's character would try and claim that he is all-knowing .

@CitizenBane said:

@Hyper_God: He means the Quaima, the dream-fueled demons from the beginning of Nirvana.

Oh I know that . Just wanted to force him to read the comic again in order to reply .

Btw , Lucifer's exclamation after revealing to Mazikeen that he'd already destroyed their dream-anchors , doesn't sound like that of an omniscient being .

Lucifer roflstomps whole Marvel verse.

@Killemall Isn't the IG only a universal weapon

@dondave said:

@Killemall Isn't the IG only a universal weapon

Currently yes, before not really. Hickman was the one who made it very universal.

@Killemall: Thank you

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Huh? Did the ig get a power boost that I'm not aware of? How the heck would Warlock even with the ig outright defeat Lucy here...

still lucifer.

Considering even the Living Tribunal didnt want to fight Adam for the IG, and LT is pretty close to DC's Presence...

How do you know?

Ok, now what?

@the_pain: Warlock's probably better, considering he doesn't have the built in nihilism that causes Thanos to make himself fail.

Yeah, Thanos was about courting his love Death, and had his own psychological issues that led to him losing. Warlock seemed much more formidable because he didnt have these issues. At the end of that series both him and LT basically agreed that he'd give up the IG because that's what was going to happen. Warlock in no way seemed intimidated by LT, and if they had disagreed on what the future held, you can bet there would have been a battle to end all battles.

LT isn't close to presence, he's closer to beings like lucifer, michael and synnar.

he isnt

@thanosii: @betatesthighlander1:

explain how survivng a multiversal blast with no problem at all and shaping a multiverse of his own not close to LT levels.

on a side note, other than the superme beings (presence/GEB/over monitor/source) synnar is the closest to LT.

1. that's false, a multiversal blast destroys all universes and its planes of existence, meaning he survived it one way or the other

2. he never went intangible fyi

3. He did it inside the void (lucifer #13)

there isn't space nor is there time in the void, so going intangible isn't even possible (lucifer #75)

so yeah, he definitely survived the blast, no doubt about that.

If you don't choose to believe the retcon then that's your choice.