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#1 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Can his telepathy over come the power of the soul gem,not to mention Adam other cosmic powers.

#2 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

My guess is it wouldn't have to. He could crush him before Warlock realizes what happens.

#3 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Go to wikepedia and look up Adam Warlock,aside from his cosmic powers and the Soul Gem, Adam has Mystical powers as well,and cosmic awareness. I'm not saying he can beat MM,that's up 4 debate,but it won't be a cakewalk 4 MM. I say it's a tie.

#4 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Quit using Wikipedia as a guide for comic battles. Not only is it essentially our rival site, it is notoriously inaccurate concerning up-to-date comic information.

If you're allowing Warlock to have the Soul Gem, then he wins easily. Since he does not possess the Gem at this time, the battle is more balanced, but I believe MM would ultimately win after a hard fought battle.

#5 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont know i think it would have to go to Martian Manhunter, he's a superman with a dash of Pro. X and vision. i think that unless adam warlock can produce fire it will go to the martian. plus adam warlock don't have the soul gem anymore.

#6 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"i dont know i think it would have to go to Martian Manhunter, he's a superman with a dash of Pro. X and vision. i think that unless adam warlock can produce fire it will go to the martian. plus adam warlock don't have the soul gem anymore."

MM is more than "a dash of Pro. X." I love Xavier, and yes he is very powerful, but his level falls far short of MM's. MM has read the minds of every person on Earth at once. Xavier's never come close to that feat.

#7 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"i think that unless adam warlock can produce fire it will go to the martian. "

Aaaand he's not weak against fire.

Moderator
#8 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"i dont know i think it would have to go to Martian Manhunter, he's a superman with a dash of Pro. X and vision. i think that unless adam warlock can produce fire it will go to the martian. plus adam warlock don't have the soul gem anymore."

With his Magic I see him giving Jonn a hard time,he can also slip in and out of reality making him invible to his ememies,not even Jonns telepathy can trace him. Remember what he did to Nebula,and she had the infinity gaunlet.

#9 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

MM wins. His physical abilities are far beyond those of Warlock, and this coupled with his mental powers makes for a winning combination.

#10 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Warlock is basically a super-engineered human. Super strengths, super senses, etc. Add to that his mental abilities, his mystic abilities, battle-earned experience, and cosmic awareness and MM faces his toughest opponent ever.

I'm backing Warlock in this one. The man always seems to do the impossible and just because he no longer possesses the soul gem, they are now a part of one another. Adam retains abilities he formerly only had with the soul gem even when he's not physically connected to it.

MM goes down, and goes down hard.

#11 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"Warlock is basically a super-engineered human. Super strengths, super senses, etc. Add to that his mental abilities, his mystic abilities, battle-earned experience, and cosmic awareness and MM faces his toughest opponent ever. I'm backing Warlock in this one. The man always seems to do the impossible and just because he no longer possesses the soul gem, they are now a part of one another. Adam retains abilities he formerly only had with the soul gem even when he's not physically connected to it. MM goes down, and goes down hard."

Just look Warlock's powers levels - enhanced strength (originally quoted at 1 tonne but now likely above that) that he can enhance via cosmic enegy for a limited period of time (originally 1 hour, with the ability to lift 60 tonnes). He has enhanced durability but is not in the same class as the Thing or the Hulk for durability. He does have enahnced reflexes but not in the same order as Spiderman. Yes he has a lot of battle skills, has some mystical abilities and is a tough opponent for some mid range characters in the Marvel Universe but he's fighting the Martian Manhunter whose physical abilities approach those of Superman (so lift about 2 million tonnes, super speed reactions so he can move in bullet time like superman, extreme durability - taking blows from characters of his own strength level and then we have his enhanced senses which go beyond our 5 senses - I think he's meant to have several more than us, his martian 'heat' vision, his body manipulation - shapeshifting to have several arms if he wants and going intangible before we finally get to his vast mental powers.

He owns Warlock.

#12 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

For all the prof X fans, can he do this?

No, I didn't think so.

On topic MM.

#13 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

MM is simply too versatle for Warlock, Manhunter can curbstomp him on so many levels.

#14 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Too versatile for Warlock?

LOL

You guys underestimate Warlock.

Super speed helps MM not at all. Warlock is just as fast, if not faster. I mean he went from one side of the galaxy to the other under his own power in a heartbeat. If that's not fast, I don't know what is.

Also, Warlock's cosmic awareness negates MM's telepathy. And between the two, they've got almost identical battle experience. The difference is Warlock takes down foes much more capable than himself. His good graces with Lord Chaos and Master Order place him outside their influence and allows him to manipulate reality to his own ends.

Manhunter only has a chance if it comes down to a fisticuff bout, which it probably wouldn't.

Not to mention the original poster of this thread says Adam has the soul gem during this duel, game over for Manhunter in that case.

Sorry to all of you Manhunter fans, but he's outgunned and outbrained against Adam Warlock.

#15 Posted by speed (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Satyrquaze says:

"MM is simply too versatle for Warlock, Manhunter can curbstomp him on so many levels. "

why is it always a curbstomp for you

#16 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe he was made to "kiss the curb" in days past and the experience stuck with him as one of the nastiest things to do to someone? I'm just guessing, though.

LOL

#17 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Prodigious Man says:

"Quit using Wikipedia as a guide for comic battles. Not only is it essentially our rival site, it is notoriously inaccurate concerning up-to-date comic information. If you're allowing Warlock to have the Soul Gem, then he wins easily. Since he does not possess the Gem at this time, the battle is more balanced, but I believe MM would ultimately win after a hard fought battle."

SO SO True Wikipedia is the leading cause of people learning things that are WRONG!!!

#18 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

I think with the soul gem Adam would be to tough to beat. Without it I agree with Satyr, curbstomp.

#19 Posted by E-MAN (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"For all the prof X fans, can he do this? No, I didn't think so. On topic MM."
Yeah he can do that,he once frost a Mall full people with a thought. Jonn my have more powers,but when comes to telepathy Xavier rules.
Post Edited:2007-07-13 00:42:10
#20 Posted by Agent Paradox 9 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

Prodigious Man says:

MM has read the minds of every person on Earth at once. Xavier's never come close to that feat."

Professor X most certainly has telepathy up to that caliber. That's how he was able to take down Galactus on the Skrull World.

#21 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Speaking of Galactus, has Martian Manhunter ever tangled with someone of Galactus' stature?

I only ask because you know Warlock toyed with Galactus while in possession of no infinity gems.

BOO-yah, Baby!

#22 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

even still i think that the telepathy of MM would stop adam warlock. unless he had the mind gem to put up a defence.

#23 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

You're assuming Adam has no telepathy of his own with which to combat Manhunter's.

That would be an incorrect assumption, Warlock may not be an Omega-Level Telepath,

but he can certainly snatch Dr Strange from reality with only the power of his mind.

Add to that Adam's cosmic awareness and then Manhunter's telepathy is likely negated.

Seriously now, does anyone else in here know Adam Warlock as well as I do? Cause it feels like

I'm the only one who can list his abilities off the top of my head, and that the rest of you

are grossly under-estimating his abilities.

Manhunter is a formidable foe, I'll give you that, but Warlock isn't just some second-tier hero.

He's a top level hero even without an infinity gem who deserves more recognition than what he's getting in here, me thinks.

#24 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"You're assuming Adam has no telepathy of his own with which to combat Manhunter's. That would be an incorrect assumption, Warlock may not be an Omega-Level Telepath, but he can certainly snatch Dr Strange from reality with only the power of his mind. Add to that Adam's cosmic awareness and then Manhunter's telepathy is likely negated. Seriously now, does anyone else in here know Adam Warlock as well as I do? Cause it feels like I'm the only one who can list his abilities off the top of my head, and that the rest of you are grossly under-estimating his abilities. Manhunter is a formidable foe, I'll give you that, but Warlock isn't just some second-tier hero. He's a top level hero even without an infinity gem who deserves more recognition than what he's getting in here, me thinks. "

If by that you mean all of his early appearances from the 70's, through all the interveaning years with his multiple guest appearances, to the variuos Infinty limited series and the Infinity Watch - then yes i do.

MM flys in invisible at tens of thousands of mph straight at Warlock - hitting him like a meteroite- no time for Warlock to dodge. Minutes pass and MM climbs out of the 200' diameter crater leaving the vapourised Warlock behind.

#25 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio

This is kind of hard cuz these are both powerful beings but in the end I give it to Warlock.

#26 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"If by that you mean all of his early appearances from the 70's, through all the interveaning years with his multiple guest appearances, to the variuos Infinty limited series and the Infinity Watch - then yes i do. MM flys in invisible at tens of thousands of mph straight at Warlock - hitting him like a meteroite- no time for Warlock to dodge. Minutes pass and MM climbs out of the 200' diameter crater leaving the vapourised Warlock behind. "

Youre probably right Creator. I dont havent seen enough high end displays of power from Warlock to believe that he can take Martian Manhunter. But I did see him keep Nebula from even noticing him, while she had the power of the Infinity Gauntlet at her disposal, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he could do the same thing to the Manhunter.

#27 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

" MM flys in invisible at tens of thousands of mph straight at Warlock - "

Your scenario is laughable considering Warlock is endowed with Cosmic Awareness. Manhunter's approach, speedy or otherwise, would be known to Warlock long before MM got anywhere near him. Invisibility doesn't counter this ability of Warlock's either. Manhunter's truly in over his head. Warlock is just as fast, if not faster than Manhunter.

Warlock Owns Manhunter!

#28 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Why the hell every time some one says MM agaisnt some oen else they always say"o shit mm would win his speed same as superman he has vast telepathy omg hed own so and so" That doesnt help much in marvel universe alone people actually have magic and shit warlock may be able to lift 40 tons and martian almost as much as superman but wwarlock would win everytie some one brings up mm they always say hsi telepathy rules with his superman like power.

#29 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"Why the hell every time some one says MM agaisnt some oen else they always say"o shit mm would win his speed same as superman he has vast telepathy omg hed own so and so" That doesnt help much in marvel universe alone people actually have magic and shit warlock may be able to lift 40 tons and martian almost as much as superman but wwarlock would win everytie some one brings up mm they always say hsi telepathy rules with his superman like power."

You know they have magic in DC too right?

#30 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah i know they use magic in dc but how often nto very compared to marvel we have peopel like odin who gets angry and banishes million or gets rid of lands on continenets strange who can trap peopel liek blackhearst sister in the juggernauts gem in their magic isnt good compared to our and of course or cosmic are better as well warlock wins.

#31 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"their magic isnt good compared to our and of course our cosmic are better as well..."

No Marvel fan bias here AT ALL.
Post Edited:2007-07-18 12:13:45

Moderator
#32 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"Yeah i know they use magic in dc but how often nto very compared to marvel we have peopel like odin who gets angry and banishes million or gets rid of lands on continenets strange who can trap peopel liek blackhearst sister in the juggernauts gem in their magic isnt good compared to our and of course or cosmic are better as well warlock wins."
Magic in DC is stronger than it is in Marvel.
#33 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless, I'm a fan of both DC & Marvel and I even like Manhunter, too; but against Adam Warlock? He's toast.

#34 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

MARTIAN MANHUNTER is but powerful

it possesses bigger quantity of abilities

I don't believe that ADAM WARLOCK can conquer

MARTIAN MANHUNTER WIN

#35 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GambitO says:

"http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/the-martian-manhunter-25062.jpg MARTIAN MANHUNTER is but powerful it possesses bigger quantity of abilities I don't believe that ADAM WARLOCK can conquer MARTIAN MANHUNTER WIN "

And there you have it. Outstanding logic GambitO

#36 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

THANK YOU

#37 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

I don't think that was a compliment, dude.

#38 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

as much the good thing as the bad thing

that they say of my

it is as a compliment

and I thank it

#39 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"LOL I don't think that was a compliment, dude."

Actually it was a compliment.

#40 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

bad my

#41 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

thank you again

good and I believe that in fact most

they will agree

for MARTIAN MANHUNTER

#42 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe most on here agree with you, but that doesn't make them right.

LOL

Warlock wins.

#43 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

what happens is that most

not this of alone agreement for a pleasure

most agrees

because we know the quantity

of powers of MARTIAN MANHUNTER

which are enough for

to conquer ADAM WARLOCK

#44 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not disregarding Manhunter's abilities. I've already said that.

But knowing what I know about both characters, IN MY OPINION, Warlock beats Manhunter.

Feel free to disagree, but don't assume that I'm making a "fan" choice by picking Warlock, because I'm not.

Manhunter has never faced anything like Galactus, and Warlock did so without any Infinity Gems. Warlock embarrassed the Mighty G, just like he would Manhunter.

#45 Posted by GambitO (980 posts) - - Show Bio

very well he knows about what speaks

and he has the enough arguments to think that ADAM WARLOCK

it can conquer MARTIAN MANHUNTER

their opinion created the doubt of who will be

the winner this will make the battle but interesting

I thank their opinion

#46 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#47 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee, have a look at the info below (objectively please).

This quote is from Marvel's official site:

Adam Warlock possesses a number of superhuman properties and powers derived from his artificially determined genetic structure. His bone and muscle tissue is denser than human, endowing him with superhuman strength and resilience. Among his body's special adaptations are an enclave of cells able to tap and transform cosmic energy for personal use. Warlock could use this energy to enhance his physical strength, endurance, and powers of recuperation. He could also employ cosmic energy to negate the force of gravity beneath him, enabling him to fly. In an Earth like atmosphere, Warlock was able to attain the speed of sound (770 miles per hour). He could use his cosmic energy to locate and enter natural space-warps (discontinuities in the fabric of space) in order to traverse interstellar space. He can also project cosmic energy from his hands as concussive force.

Warlock's energy-manipulating powers waned at the time he was given the soul-gem by the High Evolutionary. No longer could he direct concussive force from his hands or enhance his strength. Whether this power limitation was caused by his symbiotic relationship with the soul-gem or some other factor is not yet known. When Warlock was summoned from the soul-gem to defeat Thanos, he seemed to possess these cosmic powers once more. He is able to spin a cocoon around him at will in a matter of seconds. He did so infrequently during his short life, usually to protect himself from mortal harm, and usually he would emerge from the cocoon at a further level of physical or mental maturity. It is not known where the substance of the cocoon came from, or where it went after he emerged from it.

Warlock gained a great deal of first-hand experience at hand-to-hand combat over the course of his life, and eventually became quite formidable

Ok - so we see mention of superhuman strength. I checked my facts and originally he could lift one tonne and enhance this to 60 tonnes - which apparently he cannot do now. Being generous and after his rebirth and all, let's say he can lift 50 tonnes (I don't think he can mind you as his appearances in Infinity watch suggest skilled fighting ability coupled with lower strength - say 10 tonnes).

Note that it also mentions enhanced durability. We have seen warlock be injured in a fights with opponents who are less strong than the Thing for instance - Maxima for example. So from this I could surmise that he is bulletproof but could not withstand repeated blows from Thing strength opponents. Please also note that he tries to dodge many attacks - perhaps because they may hurt!

I agree that it makes no mention of mystic powers - and we know he has them but he's a mid level player - not with the experience or raw power of some one like Dr Strange.

But a key point missing from here is mention of superhuman reaction and movement speed - flight speed don’t count.

I think that he has superhuman reaction time, above that of say the Beast but below that of Spiderman.

Yes he can move fast via flight (se above) and now he can teleport across massive distances - hence crossing a galaxy like taking a step,

BUT this does not mean that he can dodge multiple bullets let alone catch them. With true superspeedsters, their perception and reaction time are so quick that the rest of us appear like statues to them. We see a brief glimpse of this in the first Spiderman movie - in the fight at the high school with Flash Thompson - everything seems slower to Peter. It's all seems to be moving like approx 15 times slower - due to his having reactions at the time approximately 15 times faster than a human. He can dodge bullets - but not catch them - that takes real speed - of the order of 50 - 100 times reaction/perception of a humans speed but also the ability to think at this heightened speed.

Now it also does not mention his cosmic awareness.

Yes he has it but lets examine this ability. It can act like a localised danger sense – we’ve seen it before – occasionally. It is more of a ‘whole stage’ danger sense – something big is going down or there is something fundamentally wrong with the situation sense.

As for his ability to stand up to, intimidate and talk down to Cosmic beings – this was confirmed by I think the Living Tribunal – that Warlock is a being standing outside of destiny – he is not effected easily by galactic tides – so he has a unique perspective. This does not mean that a cannon ball to the face won’t knock him out but that cosmic beings recognise his ‘outsider’ nature.

I agree that this special nature grants him some possible ‘bend reality around’ me powers like hiding in plain sight but not grand reality manipulation powers.

Being generous, lets say he does have his all of his energy manipulation powers back – so that he can enhance his strength, project energy bolts and open space warps.

Now look at the Martian Manhunter.

Here’s his description from this site

J'onn has been called the "Swiss Army" knife of superheroes because of his wide range of abilities. Most of his powers are similar to Superman's such as, super-human strength, invulnerability, flight, and martian vision and all at power range close to Superman himself. Among those, he's able to shapeshift, become invisible, and alter his density. J'onn is also a very powerful telepath acting as the team's communication system during battle.

John can lift approximately 2,000,000 tonnes. Lets look at that number closely. That like 667 times more than Warlock (if we accept that Warlock can lift 50 tonnes, being enhanced by his energy manipulation to 60 times this = 3000 tonnes)..

Let’s say that again slowly - 667 times stronger.

That’s like you getting hit by the Thing, for respective strength levels.

Could your skeleton with stand that?

Now we’ll move on to his durability. He can withstand blows from people as strong as himself.

If Warlock attacks him phsically, how will he hurt him.

He’s 667 times weaker.

Superspeed. MM react at speeds that enable him to see the passage of bullets as virtually standing still. This is a couple of hundred (at least) times faster than a human. At this level of speed and perception, Warlock is a statue and before Warlock can initate an attack because it takes him longer to think the action and iniaite it, Mm has moved place or attacked several times.

Shapeshifting – this allows MM to shape his body to overcome in theory the physical attck being used aginst him – bendy, torsional movement and that’s before he alters his shape to have more arms.

Invisibility – Yes Warlock could likely sense him even in this state so let’s jump to the next power.

Intangibility – warlocks physical world attacks (puches, energy balsts – even magical ones) would likely do not damage to MM.

Flight – He can fly at speeds rivalling those of Superman – so that’s tens of thousands of mph at a minimum.

Supersenses: He’s go loads of them, some we’ve never even heard of. Would they help find Warlock if he ‘hid in plain sight’. Probalbly not but if Warlock cannot physically hurt MM when he surprises him (if he can) then it’s moot.

Martian Vision: Heat vision that can reach temperatures probalbly around 5000 + deg Celcius (that’s closing in on 9000 + deg Farenhite). This would incinerate Warlock – it would melt Colossus for pitys sake.

Finally, Mental Powers – I do believe that warlock has a strength of will and a closed mind around the same level of Prof X (but not Doc Strange). Would MM be able to pierce this bastion of will that warlock possesses. Yes, with time I think so.

Now this posting has been long and grueling.

MM wins.

#48 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see you've put a lot of thought into your previous post, and for that I congratulate you, as not many here would be so thorough. However, I'm not going to rebuttle every single line that I disagree with in your post, so let's just agree to disagree.

Bottomline: I'd pay good money to read how this battle would play out in a comic, even if it had Manhunter winning it.

#49 Posted by GoocherLee (365 posts) - - Show Bio

But just for the record... the original post in this thread gave Adam his Soul Gem.

In that scenario, even Superman is incapable of defeating Warlock. ;)

#50 Posted by the creator (8576 posts) - - Show Bio

GoocherLee says:

"But just for the record... the original post in this thread gave Adam his Soul Gem. In that scenario, even Superman is incapable of defeating Warlock. ;)"

That's if you believe Superman can beat MM........

But that's another battle.