Abraxas vs Mad Jim Jaspers

Rules & Regulations:

• MJJ: 616.
• Abraxas: Multiverse.
• Victory by: death.
• Morals off.
• Random encounter.
• Both at full power.

Abraxas killed Galactus from each dimension.

MJJ warped the entire Marvel multiverse, or was it a universe?

@transcendence: ab killed a bunch of alternate universes galacti, all featless (one alt galactus was a world healer)

MJJs warp is special because it's like a chain reaction, the butterfly effect, it's made to affect all of Marvel. He also made the fury

So who wins?

Whenever I see MJJ in a fight, invariably someone will throw around the term "omniversal threat". I'm not sure he really is. Multiversal probably. But Abraxas is also multiversal. So...I'm not sure who would win.

I'm pretty sure Reed Richards used the Ultimate Nullifier to defeat Abraxas, an item that is universal at best, IMO, which should be something an "omniversal" reality warper should be able to replicate.

Meh. MJJ 6/10.

Even Marvel's own definitions contradict what occurs in the comics.

@kingant27

abraxas

@mysticmedivh: What do you mean?

Official Marvel definition:

But in the comics the omniverse is typically portrayed as what simply contains the Marvel multiverse (Or multiverses and megaverses. However, they're always Marvel multiverses/megaverses. It's never been something outside of Marvel in the comics, such as the the Star Trek universe.), hence why what it is portrayed as in the comics contradicts the definition.

@ordinaryalan: MJJ is not omniversal... That doesn't make sense.

@transcendence

@mysticmedivh: Ah I see what you mean. And I agree that there's definitely contradictions at play in their definitions and what actually is portrayed in the comics.

@mysticmedivh said:

@transcendence

I think I've seen this scan before. It doesn't make any sense. If he is omniversal, that that'd mean he surpasses the likes of Living Tribunal, Protege, Molecule Man, and Beyonder. He'd be the most powerful fictional character if he was "omniversal", since the omniverse refers to all fictional and non-fictional universes in one.

As I already explained in a post above, the definition given by Marvel contradicts what occurs in the comics. When they say omniverse in the comics, they're still referring to Marvel and nothing outside of it such as Star Trek, real life, Pokémon, etc. By no means is he actually more powerful than the Living Tribunal, PR-Beyonder, etc.

Mad Jim Jaspers is more powerful.

MJJ wins, that would be good if he fought the Beyonder in Secret Wars, with or without the Fury half; 2 Multiversal+ characters fighting each other...

@ordinaryalan: There was people calling H'el a omniversal threat too

Well that's just sad. Unless he recently got some incredible power up of which I'm unaware, then he's definitely below that.

@ordinaryalan: It was called that in the Surfer/Thanos vs Darkseid/MMH/H'el thread

Mad Jim Jaspers.

Marvel just likes to sound cool with multiverses, megaverses, omniverses, super-mega-ultraverses.

Anyway, by feats, MJJ should win.

Universe<Multiverse<Megaverse(collection of multiverses)<Omniverse.

Omniversal characters are invariably omnipotent, which MJJ is definitely not. He's not megaversal either since he hasn't shown power over any multiverse other than that of Marvel's.

@mysticmedivh said:

@transcendence

Friend, I think you misinterpreted what happened during Die by the Sword story. This wasnt Mad James Jasper's doing. The omniversal reality warp they are talking about was the doing of Wanda Maximoff during House of M. The page was used to tell us how Jasper Jasper came back to life.

Its not a showing of his power, its the explanation of how he came back.

He'l was actually an omniversal thread for his second story Krypton Returns. What actually happened there, friend, was his time travel ability was messing with the fabric of reality, causing universes to born and die. The omniversal threat was said by an ancient being called the Oracle. H'el kept traveling backward and forward in time, this cause imbalance of fabric of reality which was going to threatn the omniverse.

I think you could draw a similar analogy with what happened during Age of Ultron. It was the action of Wolverine that nearly collapsed the multiverse, luckily all that happened was reality got fuzzy and the problem was later corrected. Another similar example would be from Ultron Wars where the abuse of time travel powers from Kang nearly caused the multiverse to collapse.

@claymore1998 said:

@mysticmedivh said:

@transcendence

Friend, I think you misinterpreted what happened during Die by the Sword story. This wasnt Mad James Jasper's doing. The omniversal reality warp they are talking about was the doing of Wanda Maximoff during House of M. The page was used to tell us how Jasper Jasper came back to life.

Its not a showing of his power, its the explanation of how he came back.

Never said MJJ was omniversal. I already said I don't believe he is. OP was wondering where the whole omniversal thing came up in the first place, and this is the scan that is always used.

MJJ of 616 isn't even global going by feats and the one before him was only potentially universal by feats until his universe was destroyed with him in it.

Right, I'm aware of the storyline. I was more or less repeating myself from what Mystic and I were talking about regarding the inconsistencies of the how the term "omniverse" is defined as opposed to how it's actually portrayed. H'el couldn't actually affect the "omniverse". He couldn't affect the Star Trek universe or the Pokemon universe, for example. Those would be included in the definition of the omniverse but not in its actual portrayal.

Oh sorry friend my misunderstood what you said.

However I do not believe that is the correct scan on why Jasper is seen as an omniversal threat because the reality warp in the story has nothing to do with Jasper. However, in his earlier story arc called The Endgame Jasper was consistently called an omniversal threat by the Omniversal Guardians.Take for example the scan below:

I believe it would be this story arc that people would use to suggest Jasper is an omniversal threat because he was repeatedly addressed as such during the Endgame story.

@ordinaryalan:

I think its commonplace to refer to anything bigger than the multiverse as the omniverse. That seem to be the definition most prevalent. Take Jasper instance as an example, or Wanda's, or Hel's, or Spawn etc.

I think the technical definition of multiple "multiverses" is megaverse. I may be wrong though.

The prefix "omni" just means "all". So by saying "omniverse" you're saying all universes. When this term is used in comics however, it's contradicted by the actual showings of events. Even when a character is "omnipotent" in comics, there are still limitations. And I'm not talking about Odin or Sentry being called "omnipotent". I'm referring to characters that are actually portrayed as omnipotent in the comics, like TOAA, MoM, The Presence, etc. They're omnipotent as far as fictional characters are concerned but they're still limited to their own franchises. You won't see TOAA invading the Pokemon universe because that can't happen in our real world without proper licensing, permissions, and a bunch of other legal stuff. But if TOAA is truly omnipotent, then why couldn't he appear in the Pokemon universe? See what I'm trying to say? Even "omnipotent" beings are limited by their real life creators. It's the same thing when the comics refer to the omniverse. They aren't really referring to every possible universe. They're referring to every universe within their own franchise.

That's my take on it, anyways. ;)

@claymore1998: Here is also something I found. Not sure from which handbook it's from.

@lucano: you're all like superrrrr wrong, no offense.

Mjj is universal, nothing more. Mjj from 616 is the most powerful version of himself. But if you remember when the fury took him in to universe that was destroyed he died. Mjj can not create something from nothing. Franklin Richards is more powerful than him. Abraxas would tear him in two easily.

Abraxas doesnt matter if MJJ has his reality wraping

Abraxas killed every Galactus in the multiverse. He also so strong that he caused Roma, the multiversal guardian to fake her death (having him think he killed her)

MJJ is overrated because of bad info passed around.

He has NEVER shown multiversal reality warping on the spot EVER. His best feats are universal only. His "Jasper's warp" now was was something that would continue to grow continue as a domino effect and destroy countless universes until all of "Omniverse" which really means main marvel multiverse within this storyline and not all multiverses.

Abraxas should win as destroying and recreating entire multiverse on the spot was needed to just reimprison him.

Jaspers

@thehoopergames: he is actually an omniversal threat they didn't say omniversal they only said omniversal threat which means he has the potential to do it go and read your comic.