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#1 Posted by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

So it's Abraxas vs Mad Jim Jaspers and whoever wins out of those 2 fights the Chaos King, but after being well rested.

Fight takes place on Endor (Starwars Universe)

No prep and all are blood lust

#2 Posted by highaccuser (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

Abraxas is the most powerful abstract, and even bests MJJ. Chaos king is utterly outclasses. Any abstract could beat him.

#3 Posted by New_World_Order (12607 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King

#4 Posted by New_World_Order (12607 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

Abraxas is the most powerful abstract, and even bests MJJ. Chaos king is utterly outclasses. Any abstract could beat him.

Tell me when either Abraxus or Mad Jim Jaspers destroy 98.97% of the multiverse.

#5 Posted by highaccuser (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@highaccuser said:

Tell me when either Abraxus or Mad Jim Jaspers destroy 98.97% of the multiverse.

Abraxas intended to destroy the whole multiverse, and was able to do this. Chaos king's feats are vast, but do not make him on par with mid-level abstracts, much less the highest abstract of all.

#6 Posted by New_World_Order (12607 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@highaccuser said:

Tell me when either Abraxus or Mad Jim Jaspers destroy 98.97% of the multiverse.

Abraxas intended to destroy the whole multiverse, and was able to do this. Chaos king's feats are vast, but do not make him on par with mid-level abstracts, much less the highest abstract of all.

Death ran away from Chaos King, Galactus couldn't do anything, Eternity didn't want to fight him. They had to BFR him to win

#7 Posted by highaccuser (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Death ran away from Chaos King, Galactus couldn't do anything, Eternity didn't want to fight him. They had to BFR him to win

Death ran because the underworlds fell, she did not attempt to stop this due to amorality. A non FP galactus isn't an abstract. Eternity COULDN'T fight him because of his nature. Any abstract could beat him, their mere existence embodies power. You could argue that in destroying the multiverse, CK would have killed many abstracts. Abstracts allow that to happen. They do not care about dying. Do you really believe nightmare and dormmamu were actually more powerful than eternity? He had to allow them to win, because he does not care. Eternity opposed thanos to protect his place in the universe, which he is allowed to do. He fought HOTU and abraxas because they opposed balance, something CK did not. The abstacts do trivial things with mortal, but cosmic law prevents them from caring about death.

#8 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Both Abraxas and Mad Jim Jaspers are subjugated to the fate of Oblivion.... Chaos King is an Agent of Oblivion.

  • Mad Jim Jasper's powers do not work when there is nothing
  • Abraxas's chaos can't work if there is nothing
  • Chaos King is the bringing of Nothingness.
#9 Posted by New_World_Order (12607 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Death ran away from Chaos King, Galactus couldn't do anything, Eternity didn't want to fight him. They had to BFR him to win

Death ran because the underworlds fell, she did not attempt to stop this due to amorality. A non FP galactus isn't an abstract. Eternity COULDN'T fight him because of his nature. Any abstract could beat him, their mere existence embodies power. You could argue that in destroying the multiverse, CK would have killed many abstracts. Abstracts allow that to happen. They do not care about dying. Do you really believe nightmare and dormmamu were actually more powerful than eternity? He had to allow them to win, because he does not care. Eternity opposed thanos to protect his place in the universe, which he is allowed to do. He fought HOTU and abraxas because they opposed balance, something CK did not. The abstacts do trivial things with mortal, but cosmic law prevents them from caring about death.

I see

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Both Abraxas and Mad Jim Jaspers are subjugated to the fate of Oblivion.... Chaos King is an Agent of Oblivion.

  • Mad Jim Jasper's powers do not work when there is nothing
  • Abraxas's chaos can't work if there is nothing
  • Chaos King is the bringing of Nothingness.

This

#10 Posted by highaccuser (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Both Abraxas and Mad Jim Jaspers are subjugated to the fate of Oblivion.... Chaos King is an Agent of Oblivion.

  • Mad Jim Jasper's powers do not work when there is nothing
  • Abraxas's chaos can't work if there is nothing
  • Chaos King is the bringing of Nothingness.

He is an agent of the entity oblivion, not the nothingness concept. It took chaos king a while to destroy the multiverse, he cant just make everything nothing in an instant. Abraxas isn't chaos, he is multiversal destruction. If CK did succeed, abraxas would likly GAIN power. But that dosen't matter. He easily has enough.

#11 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

mad jim jaspers

#12 Posted by darklord_apoc (1310 posts) - - Show Bio

Well what could Abraxas do to hurt Chaos King, and what can Chaos King do to hurt Abraxas?

#13 Posted by rondoudou (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: a MID level absract? I though all the abstracts are about equal power? and i am still a tad confused by what the meaning of mikaboshi being an aspect of oblivion means

#14 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King

#15 Posted by lars_maximus (91 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say that Abraxas ultimately would win this fight with prep but Mad Jim Jaspers could take this if the he is lucid enough to foresee the threat posed by these two entities and erases them instantaneously. The Chaos King was acknowledged by Oblivion the abstract as its subservient but the Chaos King is still finite in its capacity. Galactus and Abraxas are foils, Galactus the eternal hunger and Abraxas the endless parasite (my own poetic license but still accurate). Eternity removed Abraxas from Earth 616 dimension altogether due to its threat. And Mad Jim Jaspers essentially is his own single limitation, Jaspers being able to survive universal negation, for Jaspers to die he created his own single superior in The Fury. The Chaos King was still floating around as Mikaboshi of the Japanese God pantheon, just unawares or restricted from its former nature as the nothingness that prexisted Eternity.

#16 Edited by rondoudou (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: also are we talking about mikaboshi at full power? because the more he destroys the stronger he is, so if he is a his strongest there would literally be NOTHING, also i think thats why it took him like a few hours to destory 98.7% of the multiverse,cause he wasnt at his strongest

#17 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King..

#18 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King, mostly because proving anything for Abraxas and MJJ is really hard.

#19 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3914 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King, mostly because proving anything for Abraxas and MJJ is really hard.

This. 616 version of MJJ hasn't done much at all. It was Jaspers 238 that made the Fury.

#20 Edited by highaccuser (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: a MID level absract? I though all the abstracts are about equal power? and i am still a tad confused by what the meaning of mikaboshi being an aspect of oblivion means

No there is defiantly a hierarchy within the abstracts. I think it means he is a part of oblivion.

@highaccuser: also are we talking about mikaboshi at full power? because the more he destroys the stronger he is, so if he is a his strongest there would literally be NOTHING, also i think thats why it took him like a few hours to destory 98.7% of the multiverse,cause he wasnt at his strongest

When he is called chaos king it usually means full power.

Also I've decided that chaos king would win, because CW herc recreated all the abstracts.

#21 Edited by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: a MID level absract? I though all the abstracts are about equal power? and i am still a tad confused by what the meaning of mikaboshi being an aspect of oblivion means

We dont know how the powers of Abstracts are stacked against, but there are 4 cornerstone abstract, 4 fundamental embodiment of a universe, stated side by side on cosmic axis.

Mortality (finite life) alonside Eternity (infinity time) - Death and Eternity

Creation alongside nothingless - Infinity and Obvilion.

These abstracts are normally regarded as the 4 most powerful.

No idea how any other abstract stack against each other, they have never fought and we have no idea how their power stacks against each other.

So its top 4 more powerful than the rest concept. Eternity however is supposed to be the most powerful one of the 4 within his universe. .

#22 Posted by BigCimmerian (7863 posts) - - Show Bio

Chaos King wins with ease.

#23 Posted by rondoudou (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: wait i thought oblivion would be the most powerful, since he literally is non-existance, and there always will more than does not exist than there that will exist (wait does that even make any sense?) but anyways i have not seen too many feets by abraxas, here can i see them?

#24 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: wait i thought oblivion would be the most powerful, since he literally is non-existance, and there always will more than does not exist than there that will exist (wait does that even make any sense?) but anyways i have not seen too many feets by abraxas, here can i see them?

Oblivion's part that resides near universe-616 isn't above Eternity. Point is Oblivion often than others is shown as a multiversal Abstract since he is the nothingness between universes, but to be celar: All Abstracts are supposed to have multiversal versions. Eterntiy for sure.

Oblivion is end of multi/universe, so in the end he will be the most powerfull Abstract.

#25 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I think Mad Jim Jaspers, but it could be Chaos King.

Abraxas is not that powerful considering that he need Ultimate Nullifier to destroy a universe and Galactus (ok, 616 Galactus) restrained him with relative ease.

#26 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I think Mad Jim Jaspers, but it could be Chaos King.

Abraxas is not that powerful considering that he need Ultimate Nullifier to destroy a universe and Galactus (ok, 616 Galactus) restrained him with relative ease.

to destroy the multiverse not a universe

#27 Edited by rondoudou (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: so than are there multiple versions of aspects like death and eternity in different universes, are there different versions of mikaboshi, abraxas,and mad jim jaspers in different universes?

#28 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rondoudou: mad jim jaspers yes, chaos king and abraxas no.

#29 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: so than are there multiple versions of aspects like death and eternity in different universes, are there different versions of mikaboshi, abraxas,and mad jim jaspers in different universes?

1.Yes (100%) - about MJJ, Eternity and Death. MJJ-238 is one that created The Fury BTW.

2.To my knowledge, yes - about Mikaboshi (90%)

3.No, almost sure that no (90%) - Abraxas

#30 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

so there are multiple mikaboshi's? when was this shown?

I don't recall alternate universes in which he would be shown, but I don't see why he should be so special that he wouldn't have a counterpart in other universes.

#32 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

Mikaboshi.

#33 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

since he's an aspect of obilvion, and there is only one oblivion, i think there should be one mikaboshi

another reason is that he existed before the universe IIRC, thus he doesn't have counterparts in other universes

#34 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

since he's an aspect of obilvion, and there is only one oblivion, i think there should be one mikaboshi

another reason is that he existed before the universe IIRC, thus he doesn't have counterparts in other universes

Second reason is better, first one - not so good considering that Oblivion as all Abstracts has many apsects of hmiself. Real aspects, not similar to Chaos King who had his own mind, body and real presence in normal universe. If Oblivion would enter normal universe it would end.

#35 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@czarny_samael666:

since he's an aspect of obilvion, and there is only one oblivion, i think there should be one mikaboshi

another reason is that he existed before the universe IIRC, thus he doesn't have counterparts in other universes

Second reason is better, first one - not so good considering that Oblivion as all Abstracts has many apsects of hmiself. Real aspects, not similar to Chaos King who had his own mind, body and real presence in normal universe. If Oblivion would enter normal universe it would end.

why would it end? and oblivion has avatars in the universe itself.

#36 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@czarny_samael666:

since he's an aspect of obilvion, and there is only one oblivion, i think there should be one mikaboshi

another reason is that he existed before the universe IIRC, thus he doesn't have counterparts in other universes

Second reason is better, first one - not so good considering that Oblivion as all Abstracts has many apsects of hmiself. Real aspects, not similar to Chaos King who had his own mind, body and real presence in normal universe. If Oblivion would enter normal universe it would end.

why would it end? and oblivion has avatars in the universe itself.

Hard to explain in few words. I advice You to read Mighty Thor annual in which Galactus is fighting with The Other and Scrier.

Mikaboshi was never his avatar.

#37 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

alright

i never said mikaboshi was his avatar, im saying that oblivion acts inside the universe by using avatars such as Maelstrom which he uses to achieve his goals

#38 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

alright

i never said mikaboshi was his avatar, im saying that oblivion acts inside the universe by using avatars such as Maelstrom which he uses to achieve his goals

He acts there, but he isn't there. That is the point. Mikaboshi was present in normal universe, what is impossible for Oblivion, Mikaboshi could have similar goals as Oblivion, but it doesn't make him his avatar/servant.

#39 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@czarny_samael666:

alright

i never said mikaboshi was his avatar, im saying that oblivion acts inside the universe by using avatars such as Maelstrom which he uses to achieve his goals

He acts there, but he isn't there. That is the point. Mikaboshi was present in normal universe, what is impossible for Oblivion, Mikaboshi could have similar goals as Oblivion, but it doesn't make him his avatar/servant.

i didn't say mikaboshi i said Maelstrom, CK is confirmed to be an aspect not an avatar of oblivion

#40 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

i didn't say mikaboshi i said Maelstrom, CK is confirmed to be an aspect not an avatar of oblivion

the only thing significant Maelstrom has done was opening a black hole capable of destroying the entire universe, and apart from being the avatar of Oblivion, he has significant other powers from Eon, Anomaly (cant recall who else so just going to be etc :p ).

Also same series Oblivion fights Infinity in his own domain, and they stalemate. So Oblivion is just on same level as everyone else.

That being said pretty sure nothing about there being an alternate reality Abraxas was ever mentioned, Mikaboshi is a pantheon god, there should be one of him in every alternate realities. And we have seen at least 2 version of James Jasper anyways so he has alternate reality counterparts.

#41 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

i didn't say mikaboshi i said Maelstrom, CK is confirmed to be an aspect not an avatar of oblivion

the only thing significant Maelstrom has done was opening a black hole capable of destroying the entire universe, and apart from being the avatar of Oblivion, he has significant other powers from Eon, Anomaly (cant recall who else so just going to be etc :p ).

Also same series Oblivion fights Infinity in his own domain, and they stalemate. So Oblivion is just on same level as everyone else.

That being said pretty sure nothing about there being an alternate reality Abraxas was ever mentioned, Mikaboshi is a pantheon god, there should be one of him in every alternate realities. And we have seen at least 2 version of James Jasper anyways so he has alternate reality counterparts.

yeah he was serving the goals of oblivion, who wanted the destruction of the universe.

yes i know of the fight with infinity, i never said oblivion was superior to any abstracts.

i think abraxas is the equivalent of multi-eternity not eternity of a specific universe, that's why there isn't any other versions of him. chaos king did exist before the universe am i wrong here?

#42 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: Thats the weird part, based on the marvel interview and his on panel claim he did, in fact existed before even Galactus universe, but then Mikaboshi who became the Chaos King is just a pantheon who were all created after Gaea.

The connection either has never been explained, or at least if it has, i missed it. I honestly think i have read every appearence of Mikaboshi though.

#43 Posted by Hyperlight (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

it would be abraxas or CK ( which i hate to admit) but MJJ is outclassed by these cosmic entities due to having a human mind and will

#44 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

it would be abraxas or CK ( which i hate to admit) but MJJ is outclassed by these cosmic entities due to having a human mind and will

the dude nearly destroyed the omniverse i hardly think he is outclassed.

#45 Posted by Hyperlight (5516 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3914 posts) - - Show Bio

@rondoudou said:

@killemall: wait i thought oblivion would be the most powerful, since he literally is non-existance, and there always will more than does not exist than there that will exist (wait does that even make any sense?) but anyways i have not seen too many feets by abraxas, here can i see them?

Oblivion's part that resides near universe-616 isn't above Eternity. Point is Oblivion often than others is shown as a multiversal Abstract since he is the nothingness between universes, but to be celar: All Abstracts are supposed to have multiversal versions. Eterntiy for sure.

Oblivion is end of multi/universe, so in the end he will be the most powerfull Abstract.

The way the Marvel multiverse is set up though this can be used to prove Eternity is more powerful because there is no real end only an endless cycle of death and rebirth. Since the next Galactus is supposed to survive each cycle and make his way into the next then Oblivion never actually wins at the "end" anyway since something still exists.

#48 Posted by Hyperlight (5516 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by Hyperlight (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: hes not stronger than abstracts... hes on par with celestials ( which is stupid too haha) and celestials aren't abstracts