Anyway, I feel like Aang should eventually win, because in the end AS is a plot device to win anything. Might be able to open up the earth beneath it or something. However that'll be tricky to pull off while dealing with the mech's blasts.
In theory he could bend the energy beam like Korra, but he doesn't have the feats to back that up
This is a stalemate. The mech is way too durable for Aang deal any significant damage. A whole skyscraper fell on top of it and it got up completely unscathed. Not so much as a crack in the window.
None of Aang’s AS attacks have shown to pack the force needed to damage it. Even in his fight against General Old Iron, all of his attacks were ineffective against Iron's earth armour and he wouldn't have been able to kill him had Toph not metal bent the armour off Iron, leaving his chest vulnerable. Platinum>>>>earth
Aang stomps. Too fast for the mech to blast and he can slice the window off assuming for whatever reason he can't blast a hole through the mech directly.
This is a stalemate. The mech is way too durable for Aang deal any significant damage. A whole skyscraper fell on top of it and it got up completely unscathed. Not so much as a crack in the window.
None of Aang’s AS attacks have shown to pack the force needed to damage it. Even in his fight against General Old Iron, all of his attacks were ineffective against Iron's earth armour and he wouldn't have been able to kill him had Toph not metal bent the armour off Iron, leaving his chest vulnerable. Platinum>>>>earth
We don't know that because Aang didn't want to hit Old Iron with a death blow earlier in the fight. Since the Colossus isn't a living being, I'm sure his attacks will be far more potent. Plus, Korra was able to freeze it with water, and Bolin was able to melt its foot with lava. I'm sure Aang can do the same since he has access to all of the past Avatars(including Roku, who can lavabend).
We don't know that because Aang didn't want to hit Old Iron with a death blow earlier in the fight. Since the Colossus isn't a living being, I'm sure his attacks will be far more potent. Plus, Korra was able to freeze it with water, and Bolin was able to melt its foot with lava. I'm sure Aang can do the same since he has access to all of the past Avatars(including Roku, who can lavabend).
The whole point behind Toph and her students trying to metal bend his armour off was so that he would he be vulnerable to Aang's attacks.
The fight takes place in the lower ring of Ba sing sei. There are no viable water scources,yet alone any that are large for Aang to pull that off. And even then, all that Korra's flash freeze did was stall it for while. The attack itself didn't do any damage to the mech itself.
The lava did not melt it's foot. It melted the asphalt beneath it's feet and sunk it ever so lightly, which put it off balance enough so that Korra could knock it over. There wasn't a single mark on it. Besides, the melting point of Platinum is 1,768 °C and the tempature of lava only reaches 1,200 °C, unless maybe if in the middle of a volcano.
AS Aang is easily one of the most powerful Avatars but has not shown any feats to suggest that he could penetrate Colossus' platinum armour. That mech was just crazy durable and was pratically indestrcutable
@arcus: @phantom16: there was water around there or he could bend it from the clouds or take it from the sewer systems. There's water EVERY WHERE even if you can't SEE it. So what if it wasn't shown, doesn't mean he couldn't do it. An Avatar state Aang is too fast to even be tagged by the mech if he doesn't want to be
@arcus: @phantom16: there was water around there or he could bend it from the clouds or take it from the sewer systems. There's water EVERY WHERE even if you can't SEE it. So what if it wasn't shown, doesn't mean he couldn't do it. An Avatar state Aang is too fast to even be tagged by the mech if he doesn't want to be
There are no viable water sources in the lower ring, at least not any big enough to do what Korra did to the mech. And as I have said before, Korra's attack did not do any damage to it. All it did was immobilise for a little while.
Since the mech is a very large opponent, Aang will most likely opt to use his earth gollum. If he does, it makes him large target and he most certainly can be tagged. Though you're right, If he is in his air sphere, I do not see Kuvira tagging him.
@arcus: Aang does have much better slicing feats with water than Korra IIRC, I feel like he could get through the glass at least. All he really needs to do is stay near the head until he cuts it open.
@arcus: it's logical when you know metal becomes brittle when exposed to extreme temperatures and Aang is capable of doing it. Flash on his show could snap everyone's neck and end the fight but he doesn't....does that mean he couldn't do it? Now if I said Aang could open up a black hole or something, that's unfair because they haven't shown those abilities. But what I said is well in the realm of possibilities
@phantom16: he couldn't be tagged if he didn't WANT TO. Aang could stay behind it and keep it down and target 1 area and attack it until it breaks. AVATAR state makes him able to sink the mech in earth like I said if he wanted to
@arcus: Aang does have much better slicing feats with water than Korra IIRC, I feel like he could get through the glass at least. All he really needs to do is stay near the head until he cuts it open.
That glass tanked a skyscraper, which is easily over 100,000 tons of reinforced concrete. There wasn't so much as a crack. I highly doubt that Aang is cutting through it with water bending.
@phantom16: in avatar state he has more than enough power and force for bust that glass. He's a force of nature in that state, the mech won't put him down.
@phantom16: in avatar state he has more than enough power and force for bust that glass. He's a force of nature in that state, the mech won't put him down.
That glass you speak of tanked a skycraper and did not even have scratch on it. That is at least 222,000 tons of steel and reinforced concrete that it shruged of like it was nothing.
Him being a force of nature doesn't make him some kind of invincible god that can acomplish whatever he wants. The Avatar is very powerful but are they are still just human.
@arcus: Aang does have much better slicing feats with water than Korra IIRC, I feel like he could get through the glass at least. All he really needs to do is stay near the head until he cuts it open.
I don't recall him having any particularly special slicing feats, but then again in the Avatar State he would
I don't think the glass is normal glass, if it was it would have broken when the earthbenders dropped the building on it
@arcus: it's logical when you know metal becomes brittle when exposed to extreme temperatures and Aang is capable of doing it. Flash on his show could snap everyone's neck and end the fight but he doesn't....does that mean he couldn't do it? Now if I said Aang could open up a black hole or something, that's unfair because they haven't shown those abilities. But what I said is well in the realm of possibilities
Avatar physics are different from regular physics. Plus we don't have feats for Aang reaching those extreme temperatures
@phantom16: @arcus: avatar state makes those temperatures within reach and I'm sure aang could do it. I also stated he should be able to sink the entire structure into the ground and that glass wasn't attacked directly and frozen by someone in Avatar State. That giant laser is linear and won't tag Aang in the avatar state. He has super speed in NORMAL mode when he amps himself with airbending
@phantom16: @arcus: avatar state makes those temperatures within reach and I'm sure aang could do it. I also stated he should be able to sink the entire structure into the ground and that glass wasn't attacked directly and frozen by someone in Avatar State. That giant laser is linear and won't tag Aang in the avatar state. He has super speed in NORMAL mode when he amps himself with airbending
When have we seen the Avatar State reach those temperatures?
avatar state makes those temperatures within reach and I'm sure aang could do it
There is no evidence of AS fire blasts can reach those tempatures. Not even Lava is that hot. You cant just say that they can when there is no proof of them be able to.
That giant laser is linear and won't tag Aang in the avatar state.
Why not? If Aang goes yeager mode, which he'll most liekely do, then he would be an easy taget consideing his vast size. If Kuvira tags him, the beam will easily rip through his earth body. It sliced through several skycrapers like a hot knife to butter.
He has super speed in NORMAL mode when he amps himself with airbending
Aang he has never shown super human speed in combat.
We don't know that because Aang didn't want to hit Old Iron with a death blow earlier in the fight. Since the Colossus isn't a living being, I'm sure his attacks will be far more potent. Plus, Korra was able to freeze it with water, and Bolin was able to melt its foot with lava. I'm sure Aang can do the same since he has access to all of the past Avatars(including Roku, who can lavabend).
The whole point behind Toph and her students trying to metal bend his armour off was so that he would he be vulnerable to Aang's attacks.
The fight takes place in the lower ring of Ba sing sei. There are no viable water scources,yet alone any that are large for Aang to pull that off. And even then, all that Korra's flash freeze did was stall it for while. The attack itself didn't do any damage to the mech itself.
AS Aang is easily one of the most powerful Avatars but has not shown any feats to suggest that he could penetrate Colossus' platinum armour. That mech was just crazy durable and was pratically indestrcutable
Sorry for replying so late to this. I didn't get a notification.
Aang was still holding back on his attacks though. He didn't really hit Old Iron with a critical attack until after he threatened Toph's life. Aang originally didn't want to do it all.
If this is the Avatar State Aang from the finale with his elemental rings, then he should already have more than enough water to freeze the Colossus. If not. He can just use earth bending to hold it in place instead or get water from the sky.
The lava did not melt it's foot. It melted the asphalt beneath it's feet and sunk it ever so lightly, which put it off balance enough so that Korra could knock it over.
Fair enough, but that only means Aang could just open up a big hole under its feet to trap it instead. Then breach the head to take out Kuvira.
There wasn't a single mark on it. Besides, the melting point of Platinum is 1,768 °C and the tempature of lava only reaches 1,200 °C, unless maybe if in the middle of a volcano.
I suppose that's fair, but Aang's mastery of fire shouldn't be underestimated. Merged with Roku, he could easily melt steel chains like they were made of butter...
and melt the floor like it was made of butter
I think he could probably breach the Colossus. I don't even recal any firebenders trying
Aang was still holding back on his attacks though. He didn't really hit Old Iron with a critical attack until after he threatened Toph's life. Aang originally didn't want to do it all.
That is a fair point. Still, we do not know for certain if that attack would even work with his armour on. They made a pretty big point in trying to get it off so he'd be vulnerable. Not to mention, Iron hasn’t really shown any real good durability feats. None of which that come close to the mech.
I suppose that's fair, but Aang's mastery of fire shouldn't be underestimated. Merged with Roku, he could easily melt steel chains like they were made of butter…
Fire is actually one the elements that Aang hadn’t mastered in the show, by his own omission and by lack of feats. It is most likely one of the reasons why he hardly used it against Ozai
If this is the Avatar State Aang from the finale with his elemental rings, then he should already have more than enough water to freeze the Colossus. If not. He can just use earth bending to hold it in place instead or get water from the sky.
Aang has never pulled water from the air in-character and the water in his ring is nowhere near enough to flash freeze a 25 story mech. Even in the fortuneteller episode, there was already an abundance of clouds in the sky. Ba sing sei is in a very dry and hot area of the world, where there isnt likely to be a lot of Moisture in the air..
Melting a 2-3 inch metal chain is not quite the same as melting through a platinum hard shell. Korra was able to cut through steel chains in seconds with just a small flame and she has shown to use far more powerful attacks. Obviously, that feat was not on the level as Roku's but is not unreasonable that she could potentially acomplish something similar with a fully powered blast. Korra's easily one of the strongest fire benders when it comes to raw power
Hiroshi had to use a plasma cut thorugh the shell and even that took a significant amount of time. It is also important to note that Roku is not the one fighting here. Just becasue Aang is in the AS, doesn't mean he can utilse it the same as way as other Avatars. Korra in the AS while still connected to her past lives showed nowhere near the level of power and skill as the past avatars and she had mastered it. This is more about what Aang has shown with the AS when he is piloting it.
If you also look at Aang’s fire blasts themselves, they haven't shown that much power, at least not enough to suggest it could casue any signifcant damage to it
Also, Toph was also able to block his fire blasts with an earth wall.
Fair enough, but that only means Aang could just open up a big hole under its feet to trap it instead. Then breach the head to take out Kuvira.
I don’t see how him be able to do that. The glass seemed to be just as durable as the whole thing. Over 200, 000 tons of steel and reinforced concrete fell on top of it and it didn't have a single scratch on it.
The only possible way I can see him beating her is by creating a very deep fissure around it's feet like he did in Yu dao and sinking it deep into the earth, but even then, she could potentially climb back out. Not to mention that it took some concenration on his part and required him to be stationary.
Since Aang is fighting a large oppoenent, he'll most likely opt to use his Gullem to combat Kuvira as did with Iron. If so,that makes him a much bigger target and I do not see him having the speed and mobility to dodge beams that crossed the skyline in an instant.
That is a fair point. Still, we do not know for certain if that attack would even work with his armour on. They made a pretty big point in trying to get it off so he'd be vulnerable. Not to mention, Iron hasn’t really shown any real good durability feats. None of which that come close to the mech.
This doesn't go against my initial point though, since it wasn't about Old Iron's durability. This is about Aang's attack power, and there was nothing to suggest he couldn't have dealt with Old Iron on his own, other than morality.
Fire is actually one the elements that Aang hadn’t mastered in the show, by his own omission and by lack of feats. It is most likely one of the reasons why he hardly used it against Ozai
As the Avatar he has full knowledge and skills of all the past Avatars, including firebending masters.
Aang has never pulled water from the air in-character and the water in his ring is nowhere near enough to flash freeze a 25 story mech. Even in the fortuneteller episode, there was already an abundance of clouds in the sky. Ba sing sei is in a very dry and hot area of the world, where there isnt likely to be a lot of Moisture in the air..
The water that Aang initially formed into the ring after he went into the Avatar State was massive. It only appeared to be small because he compressed the water like he did the other elements.
Keep in mind he used several powerful water bending attacks throughout this fight
I never claimed that he could pull water out of the air, but he could pull them from clouds.
Ba Sing Sei is covered with clouds.
Melting a 2-3 inch metal chain is not quite the same as melting through a platinum hard shell. Korra was able to cut through steel chains in seconds with just a small flame and she has shown to use far more powerful attacks. Obviously, that feat was not on the level as Roku's but is not unreasonable that she could potentially acomplish something similar with a fully powered blast. Korra's easily one of the strongest fire benders when it comes to raw power
Not quite the same. She broke the chain after focusing a continuous flame at it(which took time). Roku's attack melted the chains instantly, and as if they were made of butter. It was a far more powerful and potent attack, and these are the sorts of attacks that could potentially breach the Colossus.
Hiroshi had to use a plasma cut thorugh the shell and even that took a significant amount of time.
I didn't say it would be easy. This was initially why I said that Aang could incapacitate it first.
It is also important to note that Roku is not the one fighting here. Just becasue Aang is in the AS, doesn't mean he can utilse it the same as way as other Avatars. Korra in the AS while still connected to her past lives showed nowhere near the level of power and skill as the past avatars and she had mastered it. This is more about what Aang has shown with the AS when he is piloting it.
That's exactly what he can do and exactly what he's done with the Avatar State. The gif I posted is of Aang utilizing the Avatar State to channel Roku's skills. Korra didn't have access to the previous Avatars when she went up against the Colossus. So this fight will play out a whole lot differently.
If you also look at Aang’s fire blasts themselves, they haven't shown that much power, at least not enough to suggest it could casue any signifcant damage to it
What exactly did those fire blast hit to show how potent they were? Ozai is running away from them, and they're just exploding into the ground(with significant force).
Also, Toph was also able to block his fire blasts with an earth wall.
That wasn't just Toph.
I don’t see how him be able to do that. The glass seemed to be just as durable as the whole thing. Over 200, 000 tons of steel and reinforced concrete fell on top of it and it didn't have a single scratch on it.
That wasn't my point. With the Colossus incapacitated, Aang could focus his attacks on breaching the head(where Kuvira is)..
The only possible way I can see him beating her is by creating a very deep fissure around it's feet like he did in Yu dao and sinking it deep into the earth, but even then, she could potentially climb back out. Not to mention that it took some concenration on his part and required him to be stationary.
This wouldn't be a problem with the Avatar State. Roku and Kyoshi could split islands in two, and Aang already demonstrated that he control large magnetudes of earth when he formed the giant golem to fight Old Iron.
This is also a good demonstration
Since Aang is fighting a large oppoenent, he'll most likely opt to use his Gullem to combat Kuvira as did with Iron. If so,that makes him a much bigger target and I do not see him having the speed and mobility to dodge beams that crossed the skyline in an instant.
Iron was an actual large being. The Colossus is just a mech operated by Kuvira from the inside. It's very unlikely that he would use the giant earth golem in this sort of situation. Especially considering Kuvira could blast it apart with her spirit canon. He'll try to find a way to breach it and defeat Kuvira from the inside.
This is about Aang's attack power, and there was nothing to suggest he couldn't have dealt with Old Iron on his own, other than morality.
. If you read the diolougue on the panel, Aang explicitly says that without the armour, his multi-elemental attack will kill him. "No, Toph. Without his armour on, an attack like might be too much for him to take. I can't take that risk". Without the armour, he is vulnerable. This as much as a confirmation as you can get, really.
The water that Aang initially formed into the ring after he went into the Avatar State was massive. It only appeared to be small because he compressed the water like he did the other elements.
He has never shown to bend vast amounts of water out of that ring. It is simply too small a water source for him to acomplish something like this.
As the Avatar he has full knowledge and skills of all the past Avatars, including firebending masters.
But Aang himself had not mastered fire.
I never claimed that he could pull water out of the air, but he could pull them from clouds.
He has never done that in combat and I am pretty sure he has never flash frozen anything as durable as platinum before, though I could be wrong.
Not quite the same. She broke the chain after focusing a continuous flame at it(which took time). Roku's attack melted the chains instantly, and as if they were made of butter. It was a far more powerful and potent attack, and these are the sorts of attacks that could potentially breach the Colossus.
I don’t really see the difference. It literally took her a couple of seconds to melt through it.
Kuvira's mech was huge. Roku's blast would literally look like a speckle and I doubt it would even leave a scratch it.
It was a far more powerful and potent attack, and these are the sorts of attacks that could potentially breach the Colossus.
There is no real evidence that they could.
The gif I posted is of Aang utilizing the Avatar State to channel Roku's skills.
Aang wasn’t the one who was piloting the avatar state in that instance. Roku was. Aang has mastered the AS, so it is all him now just as it was all Korra, even before she lost her past lives.
Korra didn't have access to the previous Avatars when she went up against the Colossus. So this fight will play out a whole lot differently.
I never refered to her fight against the colossus in my post. I specifically referred to her use of the AS prior to losing he past lives. More specifically, when she fought Unalaq and Vaatu. In those fights, she was connected to her past lives, yet she was shown to be no where near as powerful as Aaang and the other Avatars
What exactly did those fire blast hit to show how potent they were? Ozai is running away from them, and they're just exploding into the ground(with significant force).
They hit the pillars and the ground and did not appear be that powerful.
That wasn't just Toph.
If you want to get technical,then yes….she had assistance from her students. However, we can clearly see that she was doing most of the work.
Notice how she is the only one of them straining? This clearly suggests that she was exerting way more than they were.
Besides, we have seen Toph bend structures just as large single handily:
This wouldn't be a problem with the Avatar State. Roku and Kyoshi could split islands in two, and Aang already demonstrated that he control large magnetudes of earth when he formed the giant golem to fight Old Iron.
This panel shows Aang having to concentrate. He also has to remain stationary for a moment to open the fissure, which leaves himself completely wide open. If he does this in the fight, Kuvira will blast him into oblivion.
Iron was an actual large being. The Colossus is just a mech operated by Kuvira from the inside. It's very unlikely that he would use the giant earth golem in this sort of situation.
I really don't see what difference that makes. A large opponent is a large opponent. Besides, he doesn’t know that Kuvira is inside. He would literally have to be several feet away from it to see her inside, the mech is so large. All he'll percieve is a large robot trying to kill him and it just so happens that he has the perfect tool to combat such a large foe. There is absolutelty no reason at all why he wouldn't use his Gollum.
Especially considering Kuvira could blast it apart with her spirit canon.
There was a risk of Iron punching his Gollem apart with his fists, too. In spite of that, he still opted to use the form. Remember, he has no knowledge going into the fight, so he doesn't know about the spirit beams either.
He'll try to find a way to breach it and defeat Kuvira from the inside.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. At best, its a stalemate, IMO. It is way too durable
. If you read the diolougue on the panel, Aang explicitly says that without the armour, his multi-elemental attack will kill him. "No, Toph. Without his armour on, an attack like might be too much for him to take. I can't take that risk". Without the armour, he is vulnerable. This as much as a confirmation as you can get, really.
This doesn't change anything I pointed out. There was nothing in the issue to suggest Aang hit him with everything that he had. He didn't do that until after Toph had already removed his armor and Old Iron threatened her life.
He has never shown to bend vast amounts of water out of that ring. It is simply too small a water source for him to acomplish something like this.
The gif I posted doesn't put it in the right perspective, but I would recommend watching it on a tv. That water towered over the pillars, and is just as significant as the water Korra used in your gif(if not moreso) to freeze the Colossus.
But Aang himself had not mastered fire.
That is not relevant, since Aang did not master the Avatar State until the finale.
He has never done that in combat and I am pretty sure he has never flash frozen anything as durable as platinum before, though I could be wrong.
This doesn't change anything(especially since he's never needed to do this anyway in combat), and with avatar state it doesn't matter what he's flash frozen. He has the skill and the avatar state boost to do it. Korra didn't even use the Avatar state to freeze the Colossus. It shouldn't be that difficult.
Kuvira's mech was huge. Roku's blast would literally look like a speckle and I doubt it would even leave a scratch it.
The perspective is exaggerated. It's much smaller in the city where Korra fights it. The gif you posted before this makes that clear.
Aang wasn’t the one who was piloting the avatar state in that instance. Roku was. Aang has mastered the AS, so it is all him now just as it was all Korra, even before she lost her past lives.
I don't think you understand what you're saying here. And the winter solstice allowed him to unlock his avatar state. Roku did the very same thing in his time. It has nothing to do with piloting anything. The Avatar state itself is an autopilot. Mastering it only means you get to turn it on or off whenever you want.
I never refered to her fight against the colossus in my post. I specifically referred to her use of the AS prior to losing he past lives. More specifically, when she fought Unalaq and Vaatu. In those fights, she was connected to her past lives, yet she was shown to be no where near as powerful as Aaang and the other Avatars
PIS does not refute what Aang and the other Avatars were capable of doing in their Avatar States. Two different shows with similar concepts. Much better to reference this portion of their feats separately. Korra's Avatar state was always written down in comparison to the Avatars in the first series.
If you want to get technical,then yes….she had assistance from her students. However, we can clearly see that she was doing most of the work.
Just because she's in front doesn't mean she's doing "most of the work". That was never made clear on panel. She had help;therefore, the feat was not accomplished under just her power. And that pillar she made was not as thick or as durable since Azula easily shot through it with her lightning.
I really don't see what difference that makes. A large opponent is a large opponent. Besides, he doesn’t know that Kuvira is inside. He would literally have to be several feet away from it to see her inside, the mech is so large. All he'll percieve is a large robot trying to kill him and it just so happens that he has the perfect tool to combat such a large foe. There is absolutelty no reason at all why he wouldn't use his Gollum.
I already gave you several reasons. You don't have to agree with those reasons, but it's why I don't think that he will.
1. It isn't a being, it's a mech suit.
2. No one assumes that there's no one inside of a giant mecha.
3. Kuvira has a spirit canon, which can blow holes through mountains.
4. If Meelo can fly against the windshield to see Kuvira inside then so can Aang.
5. There is no reason to think Kuvira is anywhere but in the head of the mecha, since that's the only part that has an opening where she can see to target attacks.
There was a risk of Iron punching his Gollem apart with his fists, too. In spite of that, he still opted to use the form. Remember, he has no knowledge going into the fight, so he doesn't know about the spirit beams either.
Old Iron didn't have that kind of attack power at all. Not to mention, Aang already seen what Old Iron was capable of in his fight with Yangchen. Kuvira will see Aang and target her canon at him. Aang will dodge the canon and see its attack power. Aang will try to disarm the weapon by incapacitating it. I highly doubt he will waste his power to form a giant earth golem to have a fist fight with something like that.
This panel shows Aang having to concentrate. He also has to remain stationary for a moment to open the fissure, which leaves himself completely wide open. If he does this in the fight, Kuvira will blast him into oblivion.
This doesn't change anything. The gifs and scans I provided tell another story(not to mention, the books are written by different people). One panel of him focusing his powers doesn't mean it will be the case in this fight. I see him dropping the giant mecha in a huge hole and melting an opening on the top of its head to take out Kuvira.
This doesn't change anything I pointed out. There was nothing in the issue to suggest he hit him with everything that he had. He didn't do that until after Toph had already removed his armor.
Except it does. Aang explicitly points out that Iron "might not survive”(which he didn’t) his “all out” attack without his armour. In other words, Iron can take it with the armour on. That is what Aang seems to think and he obviously knows more than either of us. There is literally no other way this can be interpreted. It is crystal clear.
The gif I posted doesn't put it in the right perspective, but I would recommend watching it on a tv. That water towered over the pillars, and is just as significant as the water Korra used in your gif(if not moreso) to freeze the Colossus..
Can you show me when Aang has ever bent the same volume of water as Korra using his small water ring?
That is not relevant, since Aang did not master the Avatar State until the finale.
Mastery of the AS =/=mastery of the elements. Korra mastered the AS back in the book 1 finale and she only just unlocked air bending. She did not master air for another six months.
This doesn't change anything(especially since he's never needed to do this anyway in combat), and with avatar state it doesn't matter what he's flash frozen.He has the skill and the avatar state boost to do it. Korra didn't even use the Avatar state to freeze the Colossus. It shouldn't be that difficult.
Aang has never showed to be capable of flash freezing. Even if he could do it, it is not something he has done in-combat or in-character.
The perspective is exaggerated.
You're reaching. It was pretty consistent. Here are some other shots. We can even see here that the foot is considerably bigger than humans, which aligns with the other picture I posted.
Gallery
I doubt Roku’s fire blast would even engulf the entirety of the foot.
It's much smaller in the city where Korra fights it
Rem, thats because it was surrounded by other very tall buildings. Average skyscraper are over 100 meters tall. The mech is only 75 meters(25 stories). The buildings we see that exceed it could easily be anywhere from 75-150 metres tall. So yh, it is not surprising that it appeared small in the city. Everything is relative. Regardless, it still dwafs Roku's fire blast would still be a speckle in comparison. As would Aang's blasts against Ozai.
I don't think you understand what you're saying here.
What am i not understanding, exactly? Explain it to me.
And the winter solstice allowed him to unlock his avatar state. Roku did the very same thing in his time. It has nothing to do with piloting anything. The Avatar state itself is an autopilot. Mastering it only means you get to turn it off whenever you want.
That is only partially true. Mastery of the AS allows the Avatar to retain awareness of their actions while in the state instead of the power controlling them. This much is even stated by the Guru. Essentially, it allows the avatar to pilot it, which is pretty much how Roku, Kyoshi, Korra and all the other Avatars used it upon mastering it.
PIS does not refute what Aang and the other Avatars was capable of doing in their Avatar States. Two different shows with similar concepts. Much better to reference them separately. Korra's Avatar state was always written down in comparison to the Avatars in the first series.
My point still stands. And calling “PIS” is a weak argument. You can't just hand wave it as it being a"different show" because it weakens your argument. LOK is the continuation of the the original series and is completely canon to it. It takes palce in the same universe, same setting, same characters(Katara, Zuko, Toph and etc appear multiple times) and most importantly, it is writen by the creators, who also wrote ATLA. Aside from it being set in a more mordern day time enviroment, the the premise is more or less the same. The Avatar learning the elements and keeping balance and etc. You don’t get to decide what is canon and what is not.
Besides, Wan's AS was also shown to be exceptionally powerful, being able to defeat entire armies.
Just because she's in front doesn't mean she's doing "most of the work". That was never made clear on panel. She had help;therefore, the feat was not accomplished under just her power.
Did you ignore the part where I explained that she was the only one straining. If she is straining and none of them weren't, common sense tells us that she was putting more effort into it then they were. Hence, she was doing most of it.
And that pillar she made was not as thick or as durable since Azula easily shot through it with her lightning.
It spanned across a great distance and was decently thick. And Azula being able to blast through it does not undermine it’s durability at all. Her being able to blast through it simply shows how powerful her lightning can be and is a feat for her. If that is not enough, how about Toph holding up the library or her stoping the ground from collapsing in on everyone in "The Rift Part 2". How about her casually soloing dozens of EE soliders and several mechs with a earthqauke..
1. It isn't a being, it's a mech suit.
And what has this got to do with anything?
2. No one assumes that there's no one inside of a giant mecha.
What makes you say this? He has never encountered anything like it before and as far as he knows, it is remote controlled or is automated.
3. Kuvira has a spirit canon, which can blow holes through mountains.
Except Aang does not know this at the start of the fight. I already explained this.
4. If Meelo can get against the windshield to see Kuvira then so can Aang.
Completely ignoring the fact there were dozens of other air benders running interference, allowing them to get the close.
There is no reason to think Kuvira is anywhere but in the head of the mecha, since that's the only part that has an opening where she can see to target attacks..
Why, exactly? Aang is up against technological advanced super robot(relative to him), which is has never seen before. He won’t know what to expect. For all he knows, the the bridge is in the belly and has A HUD system that uses inferred and external camera's to give it a visual.
Old Iron didn't have that kind of attack power at all. Not to mention, Aang already seen what Old Iron was capable of in his fight with Yangchen. Kuvira will see Aang and target her canon at him.
He sure does. Had Yancheng not stopped him, he would have easily wiped that town off the map. He was clearly a dangerous and formidable spirit and even Aang himself seemed have recognised this, which is why he didn't waste anay time and went straight into the AS, wheras Yancheng fought Iron all through the night..
Aang will dodge the canon and see its attack power. Aang will try to disarm the weapon by incapacitating it. I highly doubt he will waste his power and form a giant earth golem to have a fist fight.
This is all built on the basis that he doesn’t create his Gollum right off the bat. Again it is unlikely, seeing as he is up against a large combatant. There is no reason at all why Aang wouldn’t attempt to engage the mech with his Gollum, since that would be the more effective tactic to fight someone that large.
This doesn't change anything. The gifs and scans I provided tell another story(not to mention, the books are written by different people). One panel of him focusing his powers doesn't mean it will be the case in this fight. I see him dropping the giant mecha in a huge hole and melting an opening on the top of its head.
Except it does. It shows that in order for Aang pull of the move that you are suggesting, it is going to take some concentration. Whats more, he has to stop momentarily to completely the move. You will find that it does not contradict any of the gifs you provided since they all show Aang doing completely different moves. You can ignore it all you want but it does not changed the fact it happened. The comics are a collaboration between Gene Yang and Bryke, who have editorial rights and have stated that they're heavily involved in the production. So yes, they are as canon as it gets.
One panel of him focusing his powers doesn't mean it will be the case in this fight.
This is basselss.
I see him dropping the giant mecha in a huge hole and melting an opening on the top of its head.
There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he can melt through it. All you have is Roku melting through 3 inch thin chains, which does not equate to melting a 75 metre giant mech with platinum armour that was able to tank skyscrapers. Furthermore, there is nothing stopping Kuvira from simply climbing out of said hole or blasting him while he is completing the move.
I see this as a stalemate but we're going to have to agree to disagree, because at this point, we're only going back and forth..
This is a stalemate. The mech is way too durable for Aang deal any significant damage. A whole skyscraper fell on top of it and it got up completely unscathed. Not so much as a crack in the window.
None of Aang’s AS attacks have shown to pack the force needed to damage it. Even in his fight against General Old Iron, all of his attacks were ineffective against Iron's earth armour and he wouldn't have been able to kill him had Toph not metal bent the armour off Iron, leaving his chest vulnerable. Platinum>>>>earth
Except it does. Aang explicitly points out that Iron "might not survive”(which he didn’t) his “all out” attack without his armour. In other words, Iron can take it with the armour on. That is what Aang seems to think and he obviously knows more than either of us. There is literally no other way this can be interpreted. It is crystal clear.
We'll have to disagree then, because I still don't think that it does. Trying to stop someone and delivering a finishing blow are two entirely different things. At no point did Aang attempt to assault Old Iron with a critical attack at any point before Old Iron attempted to take Toph's life.
Can you show me when Aang has ever bent the same volume of water as Korra using his small water ring?
I posted the gifs already, and I asked you to watch the episode yourself. If you don't want to do that, it's fine. I'll look around to find images of it later.
Mastery of the AS =/=mastery of the elements. Korra mastered the AS back in the book 1 finale and she only just unlocked air bending. She did not master air for another six months.
This fight has nothing to do with his own mastery. Korra used the Avatar State to beat Ikki and all of the other children in an air scooter race. Mastery is not important when it comes to the Avatar State, since having access to it gives you full knowledge and skills and of all past Avatars. It's only important for Avatars to master it because they aren't suppose to use the Avatar State often or for mundane task. It's only for extreme situations, like this one...
Aang has never showed to be capable of flash freezing. Even if he could do it, it is not something he has done in-combat or in-character.
We both know this isn't true.
You're reaching. It was pretty consistent. Here are some other shots. We can even see here that the foot is considerably bigger than humans, which aligns with the other picture I posted.
I'm reaching? Come now...
That image you posted made it appear like it was the size of mountains(if not larger), when it's clearly not that big. A sky scraper, sure, but not mountain sized. It isn't that much bigger than Old Iron..
Rem, thats because it was surrounded by other very tall buildings. Average skyscraper are over 100 meters tall. The mech is only 75 meters(25 stories). The buildings we see that exceed it could easily be anywhere from 75-150 metres tall. So yh, it is not surprising that it appeared small in the city. Everything is relative. Regardless, it still dwafs Roku's fire blast would still be a speckle in comparison. As would Aang's blasts against Ozai.
That's still nowhere near the size of mountains. You make it sound like Roku's blast needs to engulf the Colossus. It doesn't. All he needs is to produce a focused attack to make a small opening for him to get through. lol
That is only partially true. Mastery of the AS allows the Avatar to retain awareness of their actions while in the state instead of the power controlling them. This much is even stated by the Guru. Essentially, it allows the avatar to pilot it, which is pretty much how Roku, Kyoshi, Korra and all the other Avatars used it upon mastering it.
Having awareness is one thing, piloting is another. The Avatar State grants both power, skill, and the ability to autopiloting attacks. This is essentially what Aang was doing the whole time before he mastered it. Some Avatars can briefly enter into the Avatar State to acquire a skill and the energy required, and then performed the technique outside of the Avatar State. However, the avatar state can be auto-piloted and then turned off whenever a wielder believes that an action is being taken too far. Aang used this version of the Avatar State against Ozai(after mastering it), and was able to stop it before it killed him.
My point still stands. And calling “PIS” is a weak argument. You can't just hand wave it as it being a"different show" because it weakens your argument. LOK is the continuation of the the original series and is completely canon to it. It takes palce in the same universe, same setting, same characters(Katara, Zuko, Toph and etc appear multiple times) and most importantly, it is writen by the creators, who also wrote ATLA. Aside from it being set in a more mordern day time enviroment, the the premise is more or less the same. The Avatar learning the elements and keeping balance and etc. You don’t get to decide what is canon and what is not.
It's not a weak argument if it's true. PIS is available to call out in these battle forums because it's something that is often used in fictional material. Also, Korra does not have all of the same developers as the ones in the first series. They have several different writers and directors on their teams.
and no, calling something PIS is not claiming that it's non canon. PIS is when something is written down for the sake of the plot. Korra is, more or less, well known for doing this specifically with the Avatar state in her series.
Besides, Wan's AS was also shown to be exceptionally powerful, being able to defeat entire armies.
When did Wan defeat entire armies? I know he stopped the spirits and the humans for a brief time, but he didn't really beat them.
Did you ignore the part where I explained that she was the only one straining. If she is straining and none of them weren't, common sense tells us that she was putting more effort into it then they were. Hence, she was doing most of it.
I didn't ignore anything. And she's sitting in the front much closer to the blast. So she's most likely being the most effected by the attack. She also can't see it, so that could be another reason.
It spanned across a great distance and was decently thick. And Azula being able to blast through it does not undermine it’s durability at all. Her being able to blast through it simply shows how powerful her lightning can be and is a feat for her. If that is not enough, how about Toph holding up the library or her stoping the ground from collapsing in on everyone in "The Rift Part 2". How about her casually soloing dozens of EE soliders and several mechs with a earthqauke..
None of these were Avatar State attacks that she was holding off though. So they still don't compare. Azula blowing a hole through the rock suggest that it wasn't that strong to begin with. What exactly has Azula blasted apart with her lightning that would suggest it's so potent?
And what has this got to do with anything?
It means that, most likely, someone is actually controlling it from the inside.
What makes you say this? He has never encountered anything like it before and as far as he knows, it is remote controlled or is automated.
Other than giant drills and air ships? There wasn't a remote control back in Avatar Days either. lol
Except Aang does not know this at the start of the fight. I already explained this.
And that doesn't change anything. It's still a giant canon attached to its arm He'll move out of the way the moment its targeted at him.
Completely ignoring the fact there were dozens of other air benders running interference, allowing them to get the close.
I'm sure he can come up with something.
Why, exactly? Aang is up against adavanced technological super robot(relative to him), something he has never before. He won’t know what to expect. For all he knows, the the bridge is in the belly and has A HUD system that uses inferred and other systems to track his position.
It's not a technological super robot, and there's nothing like that in Aang's time that would make him think that it is. They didn't have that type of science fiction in their time.
He'll just think it's a giant ship(just like the drill or an Air ship), and will know someone's inside and try to breach it.
This is all built on the basis that he doesn’t create his Gollum right off the bat. Again it is unlikely, seeing as he is up against a large combatant. There is no reason at all why Aang wouldn’t attempt to engage the mech with his Gollum, since that would be the more effective tactic to fight someone that large.
Except it wouldn't be the most effective method... He didn't do this to take down the giant drill or the air ships.
Except it does. It shows that in order for Aang pull of the move that you are suggesting, it is going to take some concentration. Whats more, he has to stop momentarily to completely the move. You will find that it does not contradict any of the gifs you provided since they all show Aang doing completely different moves. You can ignore it all you want but it does not changed the fact it happened. The comics are a collaboration between Gene Yang and Bryke, who have editorial rights and have stated that they're heavily involved in the production. So yes, they are as canon as it gets.
Again, canon is beside the point. Also, there was no reason for him to be moving in the scan you provided, since they weren't attacking him anyway. They were about to attack each other and start a war.
This is basselss.
Read up above. It's not.
There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he can melt through it. All you have is Roku melting through 3 inch thin chains, which does not equate to melting a 75 metre giant mech with platinum armour that was abel to tank skyscrapers. Furthermore, there is nothing stopping Kuvira from simply climbing out of said hole or blasting him while he is completing the move.
And you have no evidence that the mech suit can withstand extreme temperatures. The only thing you have is Bolin's lava, which is not hot enough to melt the steel that Roku melted. Also, I never suggested that the mech suit would be held permanently. The point was about "temporarily" incapacitating it, so that he will have time to breach it.
I see this as a stalemate but we're going to have to agree to disagree, because at this point, we're only going back and forth..
No, you haven't. You've posted a gif o Aang bending water from river to form his ring, but you have yet to show me him bending the same qauntities of water out of it the ring as Korra bent at the mech.
Trying to stop someone and delivering a finishing blow are two entirely different things. At no point did Aang attempt to assault Old Iron with a critical attack at any point before Old Iron attempted to take Toph's life.
It is true that he hadn’t actually attempted "the finishing blow" when Iron had his armour on but this does not matter. Aang himself tells us that without his armour, Iron cannot survive his "all out attack". From simple reading comprehension, we can infer that Iron can in fact take his "muti-elemental attack". Aang says as much. You are free to disagree but it does not change the evidence established here. Aang clealry thinks that Iron can take his best attack and I am pretty sure that he knows more about his own power than you or I.
This fight has nothing to do with his own mastery. Korra used the Avatar State to beat Ikki and all of the other children in an air scooter race. Mastery is not important when it comes to the Avatar State, since having access to it gives you full knowledge and skills and of all past Avatars. It's only important for Avatars to master it because they aren't suppose to use the Avatar State often or for mundane task. It's only for extreme situations, like this one…
Korra only used the AS as a power boost in that instance. And while Avatars are supposed to have the skills of the previous Avatars, this is more about what they have personally shown with the AS while they've been in control(Aang in this case). It is well and good saying that Roku did this, Yancheng did that,but hat doesn't mean they can or will. Just beacause one Avatar showed city busting power, that does not mean that others can replictate it. Koyshi's island feat was insane and dwafs anything shown by any other Avatar. Another example, as I already mentioned, is Korra, whose AS has not quite shown to be as powerful as Aang's or Wan's for that matter.
The bottom line: Not all Avatars are equals with the AS.
We both know this isn't true.
He uses air bending to freeze the water in that gif. You can clearly see the gust of air swipe down from his glider
That image you posted made it appear like it was the size of mountains(if not larger), when it's clearly not that big. A sky scraper, sure, but not mountain sized. It isn't that much bigger than Old Iron..
Your're right. When it first appears, the mountains were clearly bigger than it but doesn't matter. Regardless, humans were consistently shown to be ant size comapred it it.
We do not know how it compares to Iron. Iron did not appear to be skycraper size.
That's still nowhere near the size of mountains. You make it sound like Roku's blast needs to engulf the Colossus. It doesn't. All he needs is to produce a focused attack to make a small opening for him to get through.
Again, Roku’s blasts would still be a speckle in comparrsion. It was no higher than a human and was a as wide as about men.
All he needs is to produce a focused attack to make a small opening for him to get through.
There is no evidence to suggest that he’d be able to melt through. Hiroshi with Plsama saw took a significant amount of time to cut through it.
Having awareness is one thing, piloting is another. The Avatar State grants both power, skill, and the ability to autopiloting attacks. This is essentially what Aang was doing the whole time before he mastered it.
Having awareness in the state essentially allows the avatar to pilot it, as I said. They are in full control of ther actions and the amount of power they channel and the manner in which they utilise it. This has been shown many times.
Some Avatars can briefly enter into the Avatar State to acquire a skill and the energy required, and then performed the technique outside of the Avatar State. However, the avatar state can be auto-piloted and then turned off whenever a wielder believes that an action is being taken too far. Aang used this version of the Avatar State against Ozai(after mastering it), and was able to stop it before it killed him.
Aang was not in control of the avatar state when he fought Ozai. His past lives were. Hence, why we hear them talking through him when they past judgement on Ozai. A fully realised Avatar don't use autopilot.
Also, Korra does not have all of the same developers as the ones in the first series. They have several different writers and directors on their teams.
Nice try. Both shows were developed by Mike DiMatino and Bryan Konietzko, who are creative minds behind everything in avatar universe and are the highest authority. They were in charge of the production of LOK from Books 1-4. In fact, both wrote the entirety of Book 1. After Book 1 concluded, they hired more writers to help them out since they had their hands full working on books 2,3,4, all at once.
calling something PIS is not claiming that it's non canon.
You trying to look at the two shows separately, as if they were made by two completely different people and weren't weren’t connected to each other, which is why I made the point.
PIS is when something is written down for the sake of the plot. Korra is, more or less, well nown for doing this specifically with the Avatar state in her series.
I do not see anything about Korra that was written down for the sake of the plot but you are free to have your opinion. Besides, ATLA is also responsible for PIS, namely the famous magic rock that allowed Aang to go back into the AS.
When did Wan defeat entire armies?
I know he stopped the spirits and the humans for a brief time, but he didn't really beat them.
Because he never tried to fight them. It was still a very tremendous display of power and surpasses Korra. He also has other powerful feats.
I didn't ignore anything. And she's sitting in the front much closer to the blast. So she's most likely being the most effected by the attack. She also can't see it, so that could be another reason.
They were literally a couple of feet behind her. Also, that wall couldn't have been any more than three meteres thick.
Gallery
None of these were Avatar State attacks that she was holding off though. So they still don't compare.
Them being AS attacks is beside the point. My point was that she has shown the raw power to control masses of earth just as big as that wall single handily.
Azula blowing a hole through the rock suggest that it wasn't that strong to begin with.
You have that the other way around, my friend. The very fact that Azula could blast through a decently thick wall shows how strong her lightning is. Iroh did the same thing when he blasted through a wall. The focus is on their attacks rather then the durability of the structure they blasted through.
What exactly has Azula blasted apart with her lightning that would suggest it's so potent?
When she blasted through Toph's earth wall. Oh, and not to mention this
Her lightning has a lot of explosive power
It means that, most likely, someone is actually controlling it from the inside.
I keep telling you, Aang does not know that.
Other than giant drills and air ships?
Yes, because the drill remotely compares to 25 story super robot that shoot energy beams and tanks skycrapers.
There wasn't a remote control back in Avatar Days either. lol
Nah, there were already factories with automated machines as shown in The rift.
And that doesn't change anything. It's still a giant canon attached to its arm He'll move out of the way the moment its targeted at him.
Not necessarily. He does not know it can shoot spirit energy.
It's not a technological super robot, and there's nothing like that in Aang's time that would make him think that it is. They didn't have that type of science fiction in their time.
Don’t really see your point here.
He'll just think it's a giant ship(just like the drill or an Air ship), and will know someone's inside and try to breach it.
It is not like he’ll know where it is and fas he is concerned, it could be automated.
Except it wouldn't be the most effective method... He didn't do this to take down the giant drill or the air ships.
He could not willingly go into the avatar state at that point in time. C’mon, dude. You should know that.
Lol. Why would he use it against the airships? You do realise that his gollem cannot fly, right?
Again, canon is beside the point. Also, there was no reason for him to be moving in the scan you provided, since they weren't attacking him anyway. They were about to attack each other and start a war.
Actually, it is precisely the point. You were trying to claim that both shows had different writers in attempt to dismiss the feat. Regardless of whether you like it or not, that scene is as legit as any other scene and it shows him having to concentrate.
And you have no evidence that the mech suit can withstand extreme temperatures. The only thing you have is Bolin's lava, which is not hot enough to melt the steel that Roku melted.
What extreme temperatures? As said in my last post, melting through 3 inch chains hardly compares to melting through a 25 story super mech with platinum armour.
Also, I never suggested that the mech suit would be held permanently. The point was about "temporarily" incapacitating it, so that he will have time to breach it.
Cool. Aang opens the earth and Kuvira immediately starts to craw back up.
Hey, if you want to disagree, That's fine.
Well, you were the one that called me out. That said, it does not appear that either of us will change the other's opinion on the matter. Hencem why I suggested it.
No, you haven't. You've posted a gif o Aang bending water from river to form his ring, but you have yet to show me him bending the same qauntities of water out of it the ring as Korra bent at the mech.
The quantities of water that he bent out of the river and then formed into the ring is clearly comparable to the water Korra used on the Colossus. He never used all of the water out of the rings, but he used several big attacks with water(that I also pointed out).
This is why I asked you to rewatch the scene on a tv, because the Gif's don't really put how much water it was into perspective. As you can clearly see, this was a very very large volume of water that towers over the pillars, that he compressed into the ring. He should have more than enough water.
It is true that he hadn’t actually attempted "the finishing blow" when Iron had his armour on but this does not matter. Aang himself tells us that without his armour, Iron cannot survive his "all out attack". From simple reading comprehension, we can infer that Iron can in fact take his "muti-elemental attack". Aang says as much. You are free to disagree but it does not change the evidence established here. Aang clealry thinks that Iron can take his best attack and I am pretty sure that he knows more about his own power than you or I.
I know you think you're just being cute, but don't try to belittle my reading comprehension. It's highly rude, and I take strong offense to it. It's fine if you don't agree, but taking it a step further and making it seem like I'm being stupid is a bit too far.
With that said, Aang stated that a shot like that "might" be too much for him to take without his armor. So what does that tell us? That Aang doesn't know one way or the other if he's durable enough to tank the shot. And since we don't have evidence of him using that sort of attack against Old Iron before they removed his armor, it's speculatory to conclude that he could absolutely tank the shot.
Korra only used the AS as a power boost in that instance. And while Avatars are supposed to have the skills of the previous Avatars, this is more about what they have personally shown with the AS while they've been in control(Aang in this case). It is well and good saying that Roku did this, Yancheng did that,but hat doesn't mean they can or will. Just beacause one Avatar showed city busting power, that does not mean that others can replictate it. Koyshi's island feat was insane and dwafs anything shown by any other Avatar. Another example, as I already mentioned, is Korra, whose AS has not quite shown to be as powerful as Aang's or Wan's for that matter.
The bottom line: Not all Avatars are equals with the AS.
This simply is not true. Avatars have full knowledge, skills and powers of their predecessors. Avatar Roku made this VERY clear to Aang when he taught him about the Avatar State. Saying that they don't is going against everything the series has established before. Korra's Avatar state was written down in her series, because it was too powerful for the plot. This is why it ended up getting the massive nerf(all past avatar wiped out), and never returned throughout the rest of the span of the series. There was even more nerfs to it despite that being taken away and it being weaker than the one in the previous series(metal poisoning, inner turmoil, etc.). These all suggest that the writers weren't capable of coming up with a way for her to use it in a believable way with their stories(without it ending things in an episode).
And Korra using it as a booster rocket is not revelant since she used the Avatar State to beat them. She also learned energy bending from Aang, which suggest that she can in fact acquire skills and knowledge from previous Avatars, and she was also powerful enough to defeat Vaatu by trapping him in the sphere the way Wan did in his previous battle with him. So no, I'm not buying that other Avatars in the first series weren't as powerful as their predecessors I'm buying that Korra was written down for the sake of the plot, because the writers didn't know how to deal with her sort of powers.
In the first series, Aang's Avatar State was never readily accessible until the finale. This should've been the case for Korra as well since the Avatar State was established as way too overpowered.
He uses air bending to freeze the water in that gif. You can clearly see the gust of air swipe down from his glider
He used waterbending, since all of the water froze when he did it. The airbending was for effect. And even if what you are saying were true(which it's not), he could just use air bending to freeze the water anyway(amped by Avatar State). Either way my point stands.
Your're right. When it first appears, the mountains were clearly bigger than it but doesn't matter. Regardless, humans were consistently shown to be ant size comapred it it.
We do not know how it compares to Iron. Iron did not appear to be skycraper size.
Thank you. I don't need to reach for anything in this fight. I don't care whether Aang or the Colossus can win. I'm sharing my opinion.
And Old Iron was definitely skyscraper sized, but I don't think he was quite as tall or as big as the Colossus.
Again, Roku’s blasts would still be a speckle in comparrsion. It was no higher than a human and was a as wide as about men.
Well again, that's not relevant, since it doesn't need to be huge to breach it.
There is no evidence to suggest that he’d be able to melt through. Hiroshi with Plsama saw took a significant amount of time to cut through it.
But it still could cut through it though. And the only reason it took so long was because the plasma saws weren't that big. Not to mention the holes they made were much larger than Aang would need them to be for him to get through.
Having awareness in the state essentially allows the avatar to pilot it, as I said. They are in full control of ther actions and the amount of power they channel and the manner in which they utilise it. This has been shown many times.
I'm not saying that they can't pilot it. I'm saying that they have the ability to autopilot if they want.
Aang was not in control of the avatar state when he fought Ozai. His past lives were. Hence, why we hear them talking through him when they past judgement on Ozai. A fully realised Avatar don't use autopilot.
Aang was in full control of the Avatar State. He mastered it back in season 2 but the chi was blocked by Azula's lightning. The rock he fell into unblocked the chi again. This was how he was able to turn it off, just before he was about to deliver the finishing blow.
And him speaking like that is how the Avatar state works. When Korra used the Avatar State her voice was also used in unison with others voices. Fully realized Avatars can use autopiloting with their Avatar State.
Nice try. Both shows were developed by Mike DiMatino and Bryan Konietzko, who are creative minds behind everything in avatar universe and are the highest authority. They were in charge of the production of LOK from Books 1-4. In fact, both wrote the entirety of Book 1. After Book 1 concluded, they hired more writers to help them out since they had their hands full working on books 2,3,4, all at once.
Book 1 was meant to be a mini series. And Korra didn't unlock the Avatar State until the finale(which was suppose to be the series finale). This is why they had to quickly allow for her Avatar State to be neutralized for the rest of the series after this. The spirits were only a temporary solution in book 2, but even still, a dark Avatar with only water bending would be outmatched against an Avatar that had the skill and knowledge of a 1,000 years worth of Avatars(on top of Raava). So it was still written down.
You trying to look at the two shows separately, as if they were made by two completely different people and weren't weren’t connected to each other, which is why I made the point.
That isn't what I said at all. I would suggest rereading what I said.
Storm Calling said:
PIS does not refute what Aang and the other Avatars were capable of doing in their Avatar States. Two different shows with similar concepts. Much better to reference this portion of their feats separately. Korra's Avatar state was always written down in comparison to the Avatars in the first series.
I said it's better to reference this portion of their feats separately, because Korra's Avatar State was always written down in comparison to the Avatars in the first series. That's a fact, because Korra, like you said, was nowhere near as powerful as any of the Avatars shown in the first series with her Avatar state. Aang was just as powerful in every way as Roku, Kyoshi and Yangchen. This is a constant complaint many have with the series, which is further proof that it's the truth.
And both shows do have different concepts despite them both existing within the same continuity. I'm not saying Korra isn't canon. I'm saying Korra's Avatar State was written down in her series. And it was, since she, nor any of the other Avatars shown in her series was capable of utilizing their powers on par with Aang, Roku, Kyoshi or Yangchen.
I know you want to make up some in-story reason, but there really is none. She was just written down, and that happens all of the time in fictional material. Powers usually always come second to the plot anyway in most cases.
I do not see anything about Korra that was written down for the sake of the plot but you are free to have your opinion. Besides, ATLA is also responsible for PIS, namely the famous magic rock that allowed Aang to go back into the AS.
That's not PIS, since it doesn't contradict anything that happened prior. It's just plot convenience. PIS is a term used when a character is powered down or up for the sake of the plot, and directly contradicts the established power levels that the character had before without a plausible excuse.
Korra's Avatar State was not that powerful, and was utter weaksauce in comparison to the Avatars in the first series. It was written down.
BTW, thanks for the Wan gif. I forgot that he did that.
Because he never tried to fight them. It was still a very tremendous display of power and surpasses Korra. He also has other powerful feats.
This doesn't really dwarf anything Korra did with her Avatar State. She could move giant boulders and manipulate a great amount of water and fire. She just wasn't as powerful as the previous Avatars. Wan really wasn't either.
They were literally a couple of feet behind her. Also, that wall couldn't have been any more than three meteres thick.
I have the issue. Not to mention, Aang was only trying to blow up that building. He wasn't trying to overwhelm her bolder. There's no reason to think this was a full powered attack.
Them being AS attacks is beside the point. My point was that she has shown the raw power to control masses of earth just as big as that wall single handily.
True, but that doesn't change that she had help in this instance.
You have that the other way around, my friend. The very fact that Azula could blast through a decently thick wall shows how strong her lightning is. Iroh did the same thing when he blasted through a wall. The focus is on their attacks rather then the durability of the structure they blasted through.
Iroh isn't Azula. Iroh is a grandmaster firebender that is leagues ahead of Azula.
When she blasted through Toph's earth wall. Oh, and not to mention this
A rock slide. Nice.
I keep telling you, Aang does not know that.
Yes, because the drill remotely compares to 25 story super robot that shoot energy beams and tanks skycrapers.
Nah, there were already factories with automated machines as shown in The rift.
Not necessarily. He does not know it can shoot spirit energy.
Don’t really see your point here.
It is not like he’ll know where it is and fas he is concerned, it could be automated.
A machine is a machine, and it's usually operated by someone. There's no reason for him to think it was automated or remote controlled.
And there's nothing in the Rift that would suggest this either.
He could not willingly go into the avatar state at that point in time. C’mon, dude. You should know that.
It doesn't matter, and he only went into golem state once. It doesn't mean he's going to do it 100% of the time.
Lol. Why would he use it against the airships? You do realise that his gollem cannot fly, right?
A giant golem could smack an airship out of the sky. It doesn't need to fly.
Actually, it is precisely the point. You were trying to claim that both shows had different writers in attempt to dismiss the feat. Regardless of whether you like it or not, that scene is as legit as any other scene and it shows him having to concentrate.
No it's not, because I never claimed that it wasn't canon. A character being written down is still canon, but if it's written down it can be questioned in the battle forums and dismissed if it is written by different people(which it is) and isn't consistent with the feats established before. The gifs that I showed didn't take him much time or effort, and he didn't even need to stay in the avatar state to raise the earth out of the ocean(which should've been a way more taxing feat).
What extreme temperatures? As said in my last post, melting through 3 inch chains hardly compares to melting through a 25 story super mech with platinum armour.
He's not melting through all 25 stories. He's melting a small hole through the top of its head to get inside to take out Kuvira. The temperatures you have as evidence that it withstood, is not higher than what Roku put out to melt the steel chains. It did not withstand the plasma saws, so that can't be used to defend it.
The temperatures that it can withstand are somewhere between lava and the plasma saws.
Cool. Aang opens the earth and Kuvira immediately starts to craw back up.
How about if he opened the earth and closed it back with her and the Colossus in it? Leaving the head on top, he could melt through the top and take Kuvira's bending and lock her away.
Well, you were the one that called me out. That said, it does not appear that either of us will change the other's opinion on the matter. Hencem why I suggested it.
And I had every right to do so, since I didn't agree with what you were saying. No one has to agree with everything you said, and I still don't. Debate is always about discovering what the other's perspective is. It's your choice if you don't want to continue, since you don't have to reply to my post either, but I'll continue to defend my points, especially if my reading comprehension is being questioned. lol
Unless Aang can get inside the mech, he'll eventually lose. The mech is too durable and doesn't have to worry about evasion. It doesn't tire, and it can afford to make mistakes, while Aang can't.
The quantities of water that he bent out of the river and then formed into the ring is clearly comparable to the water Korra used on the Colossus. He never used all of the water out of the rings, but he used several big attacks with water(that I also pointed out).
He has never done that. You keeping mentioning him bending the water from the river yet he never once showed he could bend the same quantity of water that Korra did using the water only from his ring.
I know you think you're just being cute, but don't try to belittle my reading comprehension. It's highly rude, and I take strong offense to it. It's fine if you don't agree, but taking it a step further and making it seem like I'm being stupid is a bit too far.
Fair enough. I apologise. I just honestly do not see how you can try and twist Aang’s statement when the meaning is crystal clear.
With that said, Aang stated that a shot like that "might" be too much for him to take without his armor. So what does that tell us? That Aang doesn't know one way or the other if he's durable enough to tank the shot.
What? I am not sure how you came up with that. Aang says without his armour there is chance that his "all out" attack will kill him and is reluctant to use it becasue of the fact. And then you have Toph mentioning that they need to make vulnerable.
And since we don't have evidence of him using that sort of attack against Old Iron before they removed his armor, it's speculatory to conclude that he could absolutely tank the shot.
Adressed. Besides, I never said that he could tank per say but he can sure endure it. At least, that is what Aang seems to think.
This simply is not true. Avatars have full knowledge, skills and powers of their predecessors. Avatar Roku made this VERY clear to Aang when he taught him about the Avatar State. Saying that they don't is going against everything the series has established before. Korra's Avatar state was written down in her series, because it was too powerful for the plot.
I never said that. I said this is going to be more about what they[Aang in this case] have personally shown with the AS. You can’t just say that Aang has the power to split the planet in half(just an example), or do this and this becuase so and so did, since he has never shown that kind of power or done it in-character or in combat. Kyoshi and Korra are examples that not all avatars are as powerful with the AS.
This is why it ended up getting the massive nerf(all past avatar wiped out), and never returned throughout the rest of the span of the series.
Actually, she used it multiple times throughout book 4. And no, it is not as nerfed as you are making it out to be. AS Korra would still trash any bender in the avatarverse and would have wrecked Ozai just as badily. It was still shown to be fairly powerful. And in actual fact, the creators themselves even stated that her AS is stronger without past lives, which they mentioned at a Q&A at the 2014 comic con. http://dongbufeng.tumblr.com/post/92861360183/elventhespian-according-to-mike-and-bryan
These all suggest that the writers weren't capable of coming up with a way for her to use it in a believable way with their stories(without it ending things in an episode).
Ok. Your opinion, I guess.
And Korra using it as a booster rocket is not revelant since she used the Avatar State to beat them.
I don't see your point.
So no, I'm not buying that other Avatars in the first series weren't as powerful as their predecessors
I already adressed this above. This is simply not the case. None of the other avatars came remotely close to displaying the level of power Kyoshi did when she moved that Island. The amount of force you would need to push an entire island with mountains on top of it is insane. And she did it with ease. My point is that they are not all equal with the AS.
Also, Roku would not have had a problem with the Volcano if that was the case.
This should've been the case for Korra as well since the Avatar State was established as way too overpowered.
It was the case for Korra. As you know, LOK was originally intended to be a mini-series, so it made perfect sense for her to unlcok it at the end of the Book. They did not start writing Book 2 until after book 1 had aired.
He used waterbending, since all of the water froze when he did it. The airbending was for effect. And even if what you are saying were true(which it's not), he could just use air bending to freeze the water anyway(amped by Avatar State). Either way my point stands.
You can cleary see a gust of wind to swipe down and make contact with the water, which caused it to freeze.
Well again, that's not relevant, since it doesn't need to be huge to breach it.
Tell me? What is a small hole going to do it, exactly? You keep mentioning this but the mech was still functioning perfectly fine after Hiroshi breached it
But it still could cut through it though. And the only reason it took so long was because the plasma saws weren't that big. Not to mention the holes they made were much larger than Aang would need them to be for him to get through.
The size of the plasma saw is irrelevent. What is important is the heat. Even at that size, a plasma saw that could reach the tempatures of the sun's core would slice through any metal pratically instantly.
AS fire blasts have not shown to be powerful enough. Even then, the hole wasn't that big. I do not see what difference this makes anyway.
I'm not saying that they can't pilot it. I'm saying that they have the ability to autopilot if they want.
Avatars who have mastered the AS are in full control of the state. Hence, why the they are fully realised. The whole point is that they now "pilot" it instead goign into uncontrollably. There has never been an instance of them autopiloting.
Aang was in full control of the Avatar State. He mastered it back in season 2 but the chi was blocked by Azula's lightning. The rock he fell into unblocked the chi again. This was how he was able to turn it off, just before he was about to deliver the finishing blow.
He just used the cosmic energies as catalyst to envoke the state. Much like how Roku initiated the AS at the temple using the sunstone. Nothing to suggest he was in-control. He did not appear to be. It also does not disprove my point. Aang was clearly not in-control when he fought Ozai. The past Avatars were and they were resolved to kill Ozai but Aang re-gain control of his body at the last minute before they finished him off.
Book 1 was meant to be a mini series. And Korra didn't unlock the Avatar State until the finale(which was suppose to be the series finale). This is why they had to quickly allow for her Avatar State to be neutralized for the rest of the series after this. The spirits were only a temporary solution in book 2, but even still,
The only time her avatar state was neutralised was at the start of Book 4 but she regained it in the 4th episode in(which only really a quater of the season) and used it multiple times after that. She used it a plethora of times throughout Book 2. They did dial down it’s usage in Book 3 but there was never a time where she needed to use it.
A dark Avatar with only water bending would be outmatched against an Avatar that had the skill and knowledge of a 1,000 years worth of Avatars(on top of Raava). So it was still written down.
There are multiple factors you need to consider here...
1.)Vaatu was considerably stronger than than Raava at the time. Their sizes reflect their strength and while Raava was the size of a mere teapot. Vaatu easily dwarfed houses. Unalaq fused with a stronger Vaatu. Unalaq even said the Wan fusing with Raava "tipped the scales in her favour" and that he would level the playing feild.
2.) Unalaq was more spiritually in tune than Korra and he was more aligned with Vaatu then she was with Raava and was more experienced spiritually. He specifically points this out during his monologue in the tent. Also remeber that Unalaq had been preparing for his union with Vaatu since Korra was discovered.
3.) The fight was inconclusive. Korra was only defeated because Vaatu intervened and rip Raava out of her. Korra hardly used her AS in that fight. She used it a total of three times and in each instant, it was momentarily. She mostly fought using her own power and even then, her and Unalaq were more or less evenly matched. Besides, Unalaq doing so well against an Avatar only shows how powerful he is as a bender.
Your post is irrelevant anyway. You tried to claim that both shows where developed by different people, which is completely false
I said it's better to reference this portion of their feats separately, because Korra's Avatar State was always written down in comparison to the Avatars in the first series. That's a fact, because Korra, like you said, was nowhere near as powerful as any of the Avatars shown in the first series with her Avatar state. Aang was just as powerful in every way as Roku, Kyoshi and Yangchen. This is a constant complaint many have with the series, which is further proof that it's the truth.
You saying "it is better to do this” is is the very definition of a suggestion.
That's not PIS, since it doesn't contradict anything that happened prior. It's just plot convenience. PIS is a term used when a character is powered down or up for the sake of the plot, and directly contradicts the established power levels that the character had before without a plausible excuse.
I confused It with a dues ex machina.
Korra's Avatar State was not that powerful, and was utter weaksauce in comparison to the Avatars in the first series. It was written down.
Not quite as powerful as the other Avatars, sure. But it was not weak. Again, she would easily trash any bender. And before you even mention Zaheer, she was dying.
This doesn't really dwarf anything Korra did with her Avatar State. She could move giant boulders and manipulate a great amount of water and fire. She just wasn't as powerful as the previous Avatars. Wan really wasn't either.
Wan took down entire armies when he cut lose and displayed impressive power. Korra has not shown anything like that but she is not exactly weak either.
Aang was only trying to blow up that building. He wasn't trying to overwhelm her bolder. There's no reason to think this was a full powered attack.
Speculation.
True, but that doesn't change that she had help in this instance.
Which is completely irrelevent since she has shown the raw power to bend structures just as large, which suggest that she doesn't need the help to pull of such tasks.
Iroh isn't Azula. Iroh is a grandmaster firebender that is leagues ahead of Azula.
Your point? Iroh is better, sure, despite his limited showings. But leagues ahead? No lol EoS Zuko or Azula(sane) could each put up a respectable fight but this another debate entirely.
I know Iroh is an awesome character but people over hype way too much.
A rock slide. Nice.
My point is that her lightning is destructive, which is also shown by her easily blasting through Toph's earth wall.
And there's nothing in the Rift that would suggest this either.
The machines in the factories were automated. So it is not like Aang has never seen a machine that works by itself before.
It doesn't matter, and he only went into golem state once. It doesn't mean he's going to do it 100% of the time.
Why wouldn’t he.? He is going up against super robot the size of buildings. He has the perfect move in his arsenal to combat such an opponent.
No it's not, because I never claimed that it wasn't canon. A character being written down is still canon, but if it's written down it can be questioned in the battle forums and dismissed if it is written by different people(which it is) and isn't consistent with the feats established before. The gifs that I showed didn't take him much time or effort, and he didn't even need to stay in the avatar state to raise the earth out of the ocean(which should've been a way more taxing feat
It is like I said, none of those gifs actually contradict anything. They all show him doing different moves. Aang has to stop and concenrate to pull off that move. You tried to dismiss that fact by arguing the comcis weren't canon, which they are. Mike and Bryan are heavily involved in them and oversee everything that happens. The scene is legit and does not disprove my point.
He water bent the tides in and then receded them. At no point do we see him earth bending. If that was the case, we also would have heard the earth bending sound effect they use whenever earth is being bent. He was clearly water bending.
He's not melting through all 25 stories. He's melting a small hole through the top of its head to get inside to take out Kuvira. The temperatures you have as evidence that it withstood, is not higher than what Roku put out to melt the steel chains.
The melting point of platinum is higher than steel.
It did not withstand the plasma saws, so that can't be used to defend it.
Yh and look how long it took. And you do realise how hot Plasma saws can be?
And I had every right to do so, since I didn't agree with what you were saying. No one has to agree with everything you said, and I still don't. Debate is always about discovering what the other's perspective is. It's your choice if you don't want to continue, since you don't have to reply to my post either, but I'll continue to defend my points, especially if my reading comprehension is being questioned. lol
Log in to comment