Aang vs Korra

He literally didn't attack once in the three way fight, all he did was evade until he got trapped, showing the potential weakness of relying too much on that style.

Aang's track record really isn't that fantastic, I don't remember the CM fight from the comics. The majority of his opponents are inferior to the people Korra's lost to

How was she supposed to have realized that getting the metal out, which clearly helped her, didn't solve all her problems? She got the metal out, then went right to Zhaofu, no opportunity to test her abilities, plus she probably underestimated how good Kuvira was (she seems to have improved from book 3 to book 4).

@arcus:

yea but i can pull sleep deprived card and the wasting time card which is what he said he would do, zuko was doing most of the fighting anyway, against azula aang never hesitated to attack for the rest of the series. And we know how many times he beat zuko. There were multiple reasons he didnt perform that fight

he wins against combustion aang it was in lost adventures in fire nation wiki it or look it up. i forgot to bring it up b4 and it was fair no ambushing like usual. great feat for aang

and thats a good track record beating

zuko(at his top form which is on similar levels to azula)

combustion man in comics

ozai(ill point out lightning redirection too ppl forget that part aang had ozai on gun point)

the spirit in comics

and did great against fodders in water tribe war where he took warships out more than a dozen is what he said, took out many (like many) earth nation soldiers easily and gave good feats there. But they are fodders so i dont count them in high regard b4 u complain.

and he stayed even with azula both having upper hand at different points.

oh and bonus kept up with bumi not bad for a kid.

he barely lost which is impressive.

aang never lost on the levels of korra and again in comparison has a better track record is my point.

@arv993:

I'll have to reread the comics, not sure it makes up for his multiple losses to Combustion Man

He fought Azula three times, he was only close to even once, and even on the Drill fight Azula was winning

Lightning redirection wasn't a guaranteed win for Aang, we've seen plenty of times that lightning is avoidable, so that's hardly enough to say Aang was winning

Bumi was testing Aang

Yeah he's beaten Zuko, so would Korra

Aang never went up against opponents like the ones Korra's lost to

After watching the finale, Korra definitely wins this! I am not going to spoil, so you are going to have to watch it. But Korra was absolutely phenomenal in this episode.

KORRA STOMPS!

Meh, still Aang.

@arcus:

combustion man ambushed him many times he never full out lost. 1v1 aang won so far

he never lost to azula

lightning on that level kills people, why would creators make him make that face lol come on he had him on gun point.

bumi said he fought well and it was all earth around him still a good feat, aang was fresh too

azula> kuvira and aang didnt lose even with sleep deprivation, bumi > chi blockers aang didnt lose.

aang never fought fairly against combustion man until comics and he won. so sorry aang has a better record. stop being so biased he won

@gxrevolution96:

she didnt even beat kuvira they tied. how did she not win that was bs i wanted a korra win on that fight

she did use awesome spirit bending or god knows what and made a portal. Great episode really one of the best in this series

and props for great water bending that was a great feat

she doesnt have any AS super feats like for combat.

i kno the finale just came and ur hyped but korra didnt show any great AS offensive feats and tied with kuvira.

But more importantly korra and asami lol what happened there.

I agree. It was inconclusive. However, you need to consider that Korra was in a METAL cockpit, and was restricted in terms of space. She couldn't really utilise her the other elements to the fullest capabilities due to being confined to such a small space in the cockpit. There wasn't even any water for her to bend

Well, she did use jet propulsion. The thing is, the avatar state isa plot device. They could have had her go into in her fight with Kuvira(which would have wrecked her) but they didn't. In fact, Korra could have soloed that mech had she used the AS continuously, but they only had her use it briefly. Furthermore, there was a scene where she bent giant boulders at Kuvira's mech from miles away, outside the AS.

Lets also not forget that she tanked a kiloton explosion, which destroyed city.

@gxrevolution96:

i agree the cockpit was to her disadvantage,but she showed good metal bending and yet she didnt win, air is useful everywhere and fire is something she is supposed to be good at yet it didnt help her one bit. Simple fact is they tied thats kind of lame imo. Air and fire are good elements in even small room of space. the fact that she tied makes me not see her as impressive, kuvira is on su and lin's level maybe more agile due to agewhich gives her a slight edge and if korra cant beat her hardcore even NON-AS i find it disappointing.

she almost never has water look at all her fights she doesnt have water, she is great at it dont get me wrong but is very limited, she learned from katara and dindt learn to pull it out of environment which is weird.

i dont think she would solo with AS, that mech is OP and she didnt show any great feats from it,but f u mean if they made her god mode like other avatars like aang, kyoshi then yes but not based on previous feats.

I thought korra was going to get god mode in this fight and then destroy kuvira but oh well.

jet propulsion was nice but her fire in combat is useless it never helps her air does most damage.

earth feat was good but not omg level but good.

water bending was her monumental feat there imo.

and she did some spirit energy mumbo jumbo power and made a portal but thats not really move u use in a fight. it was vines going crazy then a random explosion which created spirit portal.

That's..ridiculous and it would mean that Kuvira tanked it as well. She bent the spirit energy and created a portal. And it only made a city-block sized crater of spirit vines..I don't think you can even call that a destruction feat moreso than a transmutation one.

@juiceboks: yea i dont think thats gx that means either correct me on that if im wrong on interpreting what u said @gxrevolution96. its mainly a spirit feat where she could somehow block the explosion and through it comes a portal. impressive yes i guess and really weird.but not really a combat feat by any means

You are missing the fact that Korra, while a good metal bender, is not as Kuvira, who is metal bending master. Kuvira was in an environment advantageous to her and was having a lot of difficulty putting Korra down, which BTW, is testament to Korra's abilities. Ad as I already mention, korra was somewhat restricted.

You can't really extract water from inside the mech, can you?

You can't disregard that feat. Korra tanked a kiloton level explosion that wiped over half the city. Period. Wether she used the elements, spirit bending or energy bending. You can't brush it aside as "spirit mumbo jumbo".

@arv993 I agree completely. Korra had some great feats in the finale but that isn't one of them.

So now, having watched both shows in their entirety, and being a fan of this franchise since it first began…..

Aang

I can't remember whether it was mentioned in the show itself or not, but I heard somewhere that bending had gotten less powerful as the years went by and people started relying more on machines. Forms and techniques unique to each bending style faded over time and bending as a whole lost some of its punch. I definitely believe that's true. Bending isn't nearly as powerful in Korra. I remember benders in Avatar doing solo what took Korra benders multiple people to do. It's a side effect of the times, but it is a factor.

In the first series, different benders had their own techniques and movements, which helped differentiate them from one another. In Korra, it's all been relegated to kind of a boxer type thing (they even use the stance) and Korra suffers from being a child of that era. What I mean is that she treats every bending style like fire bending. She just punches, kicks and jumps. She's not nearly as creative as Aang was with his techniques, and she's much easier to predict because of that. Aang was also very hard to hit in his own series (air scooter), so that boxer fighting style would put her at a major disadvantage.

Also, Aang was much more pragmatic from the get go. Remember the very first pair of episodes when he had to escape from Zuko, and how he used the poster on his wall and the air scooter? Aang did crap like that all the time! Using the Kyoshi fans to accentuate his air bending, using the Unagi to put out the fires in Kyoshi, making Zhao sink his own ship in rage, beating Zuko with a mattress, etc. And all that was in Season 1! He's a much craftier fighter and better at tactics than Korra ever was. It's basically his trademark.

Aang was much more skilled at bending. He took down Ozai in about a minute when he finally got serious and stopped trying to reason with the guy (after he broke out of the Avatar State, when he restrained him with earth bending). And that was with one element! He also used all the styles much more fluidly, and integrated them better with each other (storming the Earth Palace anyone?).

And then there's defense. Korra……basically has none. She's a punching bag. Aang however was a master at evasive maneuvers, and used air bending to accentuate his natural agility. It's the reason he survived so long to begin with.

After that finale, I'll give Korra the edge in raw power (deflecting the weapon head on was AWESOME), but does that really matter against a guy who you'll have a really hard time hitting, is a tactical genius that uses whatever he can get his hands on, uses a much more fluid fighting style and has more skill than you on top of that? Who also may have more powerful bending to begin with despite your innate strength?

Korra goes down hard.

@gxrevolution96

Korra tanked a kiloton level explosion that wiped over half the city.

How the hell does this make sense to you? If she did straight up tank this..that means Kuvira did too. Neither characters have displayed anywhere CLOSE to the level of durability necessary to walk out of even a point-blank rpg blast unscathed. Korra clearly bent the spirit energy and created the portal, neither character took any damage.

And no..the explosion didn't leave even a quarter of a city-sized crater in the ground. It was at best the size of a few city blocks.

@gxrevolution96: i was joking on that lol it wasnt spirit mumbo jumbo but i dont have a word for it yet so i say that. come up with a good word i will say that. thats not a combat effective feat in a vs thread does it matter i dont think so. she created a portal in that instance with all the energy. Was it impressive i think so definitely but is a feat i would use as a combat feat absolutely not.

she cant extract water anywhere is my point. when has she ever done that if she could she would be a lot better.

and i said kudos to korra for metalbending read what i said b4. but lets face facts she isnt a great master,she's on su yin level and and lin maybe a bit better. korra had fire and air both really good at knocking ppl down in close range and didn't solo kuvira. she should have been able to wreck kuvira not go toe to toe even with environment advantage she should have much bigger upper hand.

@juiceboks

Hmm…I don't know. It seemed pretty big to me

Kuvira only survived that blast because Korra deflected/bent the energy.

@arv993

Deflecting a blast by bending it counts as combat feat, maybe durability

@nicksmi56:

what poster thing with zuko i dont quite follow i dont remember that part. yes and i 100% agree with u that she chucks her elements which is main gripe with korra.

@arv993: 2:17. Also the mattress. I forgot about that XD

Oh!. My bad then.

I know it is possible to extract water from the air, and that Hama showed Katara how to do it—but we never actually saw Katara replicate it, I don't think. Furthermore, we have only ever seen small amounts of water extracted from the air--not enough to to be any use in a fight. For example, the water Hama bent form the air only just covered her fingers, and slice through a small rock.

When I say Korra's capabilities are restricted, she can't really perform any full scale bending. Large earth boulders, large waves(Like she did on the Mech) and ect. For example, Korra wouldn't have been able to perform the air spout inside the cockpit, a technique that would have granted her great mobility and speed.

Thats the point. Korra is not as good as kuvira at metal bending. The environment was advantageous to Kuvira. Furthermore, Korra couldn't utilise water bending, her strongest and most powerful elements.

@gxrevolution96 Yea that's nowhere near half the size of Republic City.

Exactly. Korra bent the energy..she didn't tank anything. It's not a durability feat.

@gxrevolution96: she transformed it somehow into a portal, she didnt survive a mini nuclear blast. she didnt defense with her regular elements ur just speculating now. thats a spirit energy transformation whatever u call it but she cant use it in combat which is the point.

oh crap my message got deleted i guess i posted too much in a row.

i feel tired to type it again, cya tomorrow again i guess lol

@nicksmi56

ok i see i forgot that was funny

@gxrevolution96:

what about fire her one of the best elements she can't blast kuvira, what about air u can use that to blast ppl too, she had 3 elements vs 1 and still tied. boulders of earth won't do anything to kuvira but water yes, but in all her fights water is restricted as in she is in a lot unfavorable places.

katara bended huge amounts from trees, grass etc. korra doesnt have that.

again kuvira is not great in metal, she just had a fight with su yin and they both were close to even and kuvira had an edge. a full fledged avatar only being able to tie is not great. air, and fire(which some claim here is korra's second best) didnt do squat and they are good in close combat and she ca use metal to counter kuvira. she was disappointing.

Fair enough. I concede on that point

what about fire her one of the best elements she can't blast kuvira, what about air u can use that to blast ppl too, she had 3 elements vs 1 and still tied. boulders of earth won't do anything to kuvira but water yes,

What? Korra tagged Kuvira multiple times with air bending and even got her in a grapple and casually flung her across the room. I keep telling you, being confined to such a small space limited her bending capabilities. Just look at her bending in the fight outside, versus the mech. She was using the air spout to fly around, jet propulsion, and was effortlessly bending large boulders long distances.

Why won't boulders of earth do anything?

katara bended huge amounts from trees, grass etc. korra doesnt have that.

Yes, I am aware of that. My point is that we never saw Katara bend water out of thin air, which was your original point—Korra not being able to replicate it. Furthermore, Katara was amped by the full moon in her fight with Hama. Just thought i should point that out to you

Do you see any tress inside the mech?

again kuvira is not great in metal, she just had a fight with su yin and they both were close to even and kuvira had an edge. a full fledged avatar only being able to tie is not great. air, and fire(which some claim here is korra's second best) didnt do squat and they are good in close combat and she ca use metal to counter kuvira. she was disappointing.

Kuvira is very good at metal bending and has demonstrated her skill a number of times now, and also bested Su, another highly skilled metal bender. And as I already mentioned, Kuvira is a metal bending master. Fact. It has been confirmed by Mike and Bryan.

The fact that Korra was able to deflect and counter nearly all of Kuvira's metal bending attacks is a testament to her abilities. Your argument is based on the fact that Korra had difficulty with Kuvira, and that fact it is 3 elements vs 1. I would like to remind you that Aang had 4 elements, Ozai had 1. Ozai had the upper hand in their fight. Even after going into the avatar state, Aang was still having some difficulty pinning him down, and allowed him to get off a couple of attacks at him, which he was forced to block with earth bending.

So, would you have rather Korra end the fight in one attack and be done with it? Seems pretty boring if you ask me. Its plot. The whole point is to prolong it to make it dramatic and suspenseful. Aang could have gone into the AS instantly to finish off Yakone, yet he prolonged it and was nearly killed as a result. Aang should have also instant KO'd Ozai when he went into the AS, but the fight was drawn out.

@arv993:

Aang admitted in their first encounter that they couldn't beat CM, they survived the ambush, Aang went out and engaged him, couldn't win.

Aang lost in the three way fight to Azula, Katara had to save him. He barely recovered on the Drill, and he got wrecked in the Crystal Catacombs

You're missing the point-lightning is avoidable. Aang was just dodging multiple blasts, Zuko reacted to it, even Katara avoided it.

I'd argue for Kuvira>Azula, and Aang clearly lost with sleep deprivation. Bumi won that fight, and he was holding back

I think Korra had the slight upper hand in the fight with Kuvira. She tagged Kuvira more than Kuvira tagged her, and countered a lot of Kuvira's attacks

@gxrevolution96:

my posts sometimes goes idk why.

ok great that isnt a durability feat u get it.

korra got tagged too and scraped around, it was an even fight overall. she is good at metal but not an iroh or ozai of metal, she is barely better than su who is not even above red lotus members so no she is good not great. the fact that she only tied and air and fire are good inside and isnt she great with fire(i guess not).

she used a lot of flashesof AS in that fight pay attention to it, some of her bbig feats come right there. aang used a flash and bended the ocean. its good not great. those boulders arent huge they are bigger thn avg but not great.

katara got it from the environment, like grass, flowers trees, i didnt say any trees are in the mech are u reading i just said most of her fights she didnt have any access to water and couldnt get any from environment or has shown that feat.

ozai had a big power up in fire its not the same the other elements become miniscule in comparison and his skill in fire is obviously much higher and since its a super element that day aang so it only gets multiplied as odds against him. Mind u he could have taken him out but he did not with the lightning

i didnt mean one shot kuvira but give her much harder hits and win later on not tie, being able to only tie is kinda sad for the avatar against kuvira. she had fire blasts, and air all good in close combat so no excuses. yes everything is detremined by plot aang is better and more skilled because the ceators made him that way. stop using plot at everythin, they decided to make her tie with kuvira when they could have made her win, but no they didnt too bad korra fans. she is not the most skilled avatar by feats and general feats but still gave a decent story i guess

@arcus:

aang won against combustion man feats > ur opinon

aang lost against her deprived of sleep and got the advantage in drillandblew her away they had upper hands at different points

ambush is not win big difference, but feats are better

aang didnt lose against bumi stop being biased to the max they both had a weapon on each other

redirected lighting is not the same as normal ones its faster and lighting users have a moment of pause and ozai made the clearest face that he was screwed why am i not surprised ur being biased

korra got saved tons of time if you want to count that against aang,

airbenders saved her

jinora saved her

her dad saved her

and probably more but im not going to look there

she lost way more fights aang has lost barely any

oh so getting cheapshot is wrecked and having an army of dai lee and zuko is a 1v1 lol dont make laugh

korra has the worst track record simple the fact that u rely on those cheapshots prove how wrong you are and just dont accept it.

she legit lost to

unalak

chi blockers

kuvira with disadvantage but was confident(thats a wreck not fighting on close to equal grounds and losing)

and many more i can point out some cheapshots too. she won against almost no big timer without major help and only got tied with kuvira

i guess not the best avatar

Korra used two AS flashes in the fight against the mecha, once at the very beginning with the air spout, and once when they tried to blast it down. The earthbending feats were her own power

Why is fighting evenly with Kuvira bad? Why not a feat for Kuvira? She's clearly a very skilled bender

@arcus: shes good but not great,ppl who are great are iroh, toph, bumi, ozai, zaheer with flight, ghazan or red lotus(ming hua is a weak link imo) but obviously not on grandmaster level but they were great. she is not a master like tenzin ether if u want another example.

so only being able to tie a su yin level fighter is not great for an avatar she should have an upper hand and didnt it was very equal.

aang in the end beat a great bender, and no ozai cant dodge that lightning. he beat zuko who like kuvira is a good bender aang vs zuko was not a life to death one but in a spar aang beat him quite handily. and he later on went to take on azula and was a good fight on multiple occasions after dragon.

Why couldn't Ozai dodge the lightning? Aang was dodging it, and Ozai was fast enough to keep up with Aang and evade AS attacks

@arcus: i said that on my other post its redirection, redirection is faster, its caught ozai off guard before so theres a feat right there from before.and he made the most obvious face which said he got screwed over, aang was holding it on too he could have blasted him. the series couldnt have been any clearer.

This is a bad argument its like me saying azula wouldnt have hit aang in that 3 way fight cuz aang has gotten out of sticky situations before, the series makes moments like that clear and got saved similar to ozai here. i can make more arguments like that the series sometimes makes things so obvious and both those moments were obvious.

@arv993:

Ozai was surprised Aang knew lightning redirection, doesn't mean he wouldn't have been able to dodge it.

Aang was clearly pinned in the three way fight, he tried to move, he couldn't. That's clear. What would have happened if Aang had shot the lightning back at Ozai isn't clear

@arcus:

yea they can't make it any more clear, he got hit before too keep that in mind add to it they series showed that ozai was at the ropes why would a guy with a upper hand ever make that face why even put it there, to show aang doesn't go for kills since he is a pacifist. You're arguing an undeniable point i have feat from before and easy portrayal you just have an opinion that no one but you has. surprise is different from despair go watch that episode,

have u seen aang's air blasts he can jump out of that easy, he almost got crushed by bumi's rock he dodged that why not this its just wood. I can easily make this argument based on aang's feats azula would not have beaten him yada yada but i kno the creators made it obvious aang was in a pinch.

@arv993:

Except before he wasn't enhanced by Sozin's Comet and couldn't fly

@arcus:

except before sozin's comet his lightning wasn't 10 times bigger and destroyed parts of cliffs, it had a bigger range and again redirected lightning is faster than regular since there is no charge. add to the previous feat and the most clear "I'm screwed face" yea aang could have hit him. ur denying it just for spite now. I can make so many arguments as to why aang wasnt going to die against azula etc but there but some times writers can't make it more clear.

Ozai's regular lightning doesn't have a charge either. I'm not saying Aang couldn't have hit him, he could have, all I'm saying is that it's not certain what would have happened. It's far less clear than the case with Aang and Azula

@arcus:

its around the same level of clarity they both had the oh im screwed face and they slo motioned it for a reason it showed aang's unwillingness to take life. ozai has charge less than azula but a charge nonetheless redirected is faster feats> opinions on this matter.

aang was stuck in debris he could have easily pushed himself up with his air from the mouth or pushed azula away and they didnt even make it as dramatic. Ozai was clear as it could be anyone can see it they dramatized the moment aang chose to not shoot him and had ozai made the most obvious face. you're arguing points just foe the sake of it at this point ozai was not dodging that portrayal of that scene is so clear and way more than was aang's with azula but i admit aang needed saving there i can easily see that

@arv993: except Aang tried to move the debris and couldn't, it's not like Ozai tried to dodge and couldn't

@arcus: he tried one option doesnt mean all options are done for, he didnt use bending to move it he had his mouth u kno how far he can jump with that. I already showed you portrayal and dramatization of that moment and prior feat what do u have jut bias and the utter desire for aang to look bad when he didnt. im starting to doubt u when you say things like aang got wrecked in catacombs when azula shot him in ambush and add to it its 1 v100 along with these stunts.

gotta get better than this

@arv993: so I'm just being biased, even though we've seen repeatedly that lightning is avoidable and that Ozai is quite fast (I mean, Zuko was able to run and intercept Azula's lightning), because of his expression, but it's ok to argue that Aang didn't really lose to Azula, even though there's actual evidence that he tried to move and couldn't?

@arcus:

redirected lightning is different than normal lightning its faster feats prove it, ozai got hit by it b4 so feats > opinions. i keep saying that there is a moment of charge so zuko got it in time redirection is faster and right after the charge there is a moment of vulnerability the face expression makes it most clear. u argue feats of redirected lightning against your opinon add to it the expression and dramatization it all makes what i say make sense. u keep ignoring redirection, u ignore the previous feat of ozai getting knocked down and say ludicrous things like bumi beat aang, azula wrecked aang in catacombs when it was nothing of the sort, that is why i am calling u out for being biased

aang has gotten out of worse situations and his mouth was intact he could air bend with it and jump up so trying once is equivalent to failing see how i can keep arguing it and even pull out aang feats of air bending with his mouth to make a point, but i kno thats not the case as the creators made it obvious similar to here.

@arv993:

And you keep ignoring how fast Sozin's enhanced Ozai is. I'm not saying Aang couldn't hit Ozai, but it's nowhere near as certain as you're making it out to be.

In the Catacombs, Aang and Azula charged each other, and Aang got blasted backwards, putting him out of action while Azula went and helped Zuko take down Katara, I'm not sure what else you call that.

The fight with Bumi ended with Bumi holding a giant boulder right over Aang, he could've crushed him if he wanted to

Not saying who wins here, I think I've expressed my views on that multiple times before, but I'd like to remind everyone that Korra managed to contain and then energybend what was confirmed to supposed to be in essence a nuclear explosion.

@arcus: that means his lightning is enhanced too its even shown a much larger range so i did address it. so this means nothing to u i said this 5 times and there are feats to prove it so again showing bias

aang wasnt down he came back strong and dai lee stepped in, losing is if he didnt come back. its like saying korra lost in the finale cuz she was down and dragged out aang came back to fight end of story but azula had the advantage in blowing him away. i can argue aang won in drill cuz azula got blasted and never came back he did win that scuffle like azula won in the 3 way fight where aang was sleep deprived.

getting wrecked is kuvira vs korra or toph vs korra both were at korra disadvantage but thats a real wreckage where she didnt put up a fight. aang never lost in a fight against azula other than the 3 way fight and lost in the drill they are even. aang had the advantage a few times and azula did as well.

i can pull so many things on korra much more than aang which goes to my previous point that aang has a better track record. and beat ppl like combustion man and zuko, even with azula in book 2 with their encounters, even with bumi in their fight and ozai and some other things in comics. aang just has a much better track record no doubt

aang had his staff pointed at him he could do an airblast, ur being more biased now if u cant realize that. aang had him and bumi had him or they both could have dodged. not losing there. he just stopped from a attacking as bumi stopped a rock attack.

I called that.

Zaheers line about the avatar states power being limitless was thrown in for a reason and my guess was that it was going to stop the spirit weapon going critical.

If Korra had used that power to bust the mecha then it would have invalidated the effort and sacrifice everyone had put in, taking down the mecha was a team effort (yes I know they should have just went for the windows but I try to overlook that)

@arv993:

Enhanced lightning is still completely avoidable, the greater range only gives Ozai more time to react to it. It's not impossible like you're claiming

We can argue semantics, but in their brief clash Azula had a clear advantage in the Crystal Catacombs, same for the Drill.

Bumi could survive an airblast, Aang's not surviving a boulder being dropped on him that he didn't even know was there

@dextersinister:

its not an offensive power she can't shoot spirt vine energy from her hands,she contained the blast its impressive i agree but its not something thats used in a bending battle. its a special case scenario where it turned into a spirit portal not something that can be replicated for shits and giggles.

Remember bending is really essentially just the manipulation of chi energy; Korra has demonstrated powerful energybending, moreso than Aang, and I think she can use said energybending to prevent him from bending.

Don't see why not, it was a clear use of vastly more raw power than she had used up until that point when she was forced to dodge those blasts. Considering that was energy bending there is no reason that amount of power couldn't have been translated into dropping rivers, building, or just sucking it into the ground.