#1 Edited by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

Logan using any feats from his conception through 89'.

Modern IDW Shredder using feats from this series.

In character.

Setting is a dojo in Tokyo at midnight. Fight can spill over into city. Civilians are present. They begin 50 feet apart, in full view of one another.

No Prep. Standard Gear.

Fight to Death, KO, Incapacitation.

And please, don't name drop without at least a line or two giving your reasons.

Also Edited in pics.

#2 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Close match. In the 80s he did not have a stated Healing Factor in any of the 80s Hulk or 80s X-Men comics I have. Im not sure he was define with a healing factor till the 90s. Someone want to explain this to me, please do.

His skill was still top tier in fighting Black Panther, Cap, and Iron Fist of that time. However he did not win all those fights either. He was not the Solo Title Wolverine we have now.

@god_spawn @super_soldierxii

I think Shredder can take him until someone explains to me why 80s Wolverine never seem to have a clear shown or stated Healing Factor back then.

I do know obvious retcons were made to this with Origin stories, but before the retcons..... anyone?

#4 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Yeah, I want it to be the weaker version of Wolverine. He did have a healing factor, but it wasn't the insta-get up from stuff it is now. He could take mortal blows and such, but he wasn't tanking them for fun. I should note Origins is not valid as I do not want retroactive things tossed in.

#5 Edited by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump again.

Is there nobody else who wants to throw in an opinion?

#6 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6258 posts) - - Show Bio

Close match. In the 80s he did not have a stated Healing Factor in any of the 80s Hulk or 80s X-Men comics I have. Im not sure he was define with a healing factor till the 90s. Someone want to explain this to me, please do.

His skill was still top tier in fighting Black Panther, Cap, and Iron Fist of that time. However he did not win all those fights either. He was not the Solo Title Wolverine we have now.

@god_spawn @super_soldierxii

I think Shredder can take him until someone explains to me why 80s Wolverine never seem to have a clear shown or stated Healing Factor back then.

I do know obvious retcons were made to this with Origin stories, but before the retcons..... anyone?

Yeah, he had a healing factor. In Claremont and Miller's mini he had it (1983 I believe), in Kitty Pride and Wolverine mini he had it and it was in evidence in quite a few of the 80's X-Books as well (even late 70's). The Morlock Massacre storyline was 1986 ... right around the time of his epic Sabretooth battle at the X-Mansion where they were both tearing each other to shreds. And he had dozens of showings highlighting his healing factor up to that point. Lady Deathstrike put him through the wringer as well in Uncanny #205.

80's Wolverine had some rather beastly showings. Heck, he was punched into outer space, picked up by the Starjammers, and survived. He was infected by the Brood, the only X-Man to resist due to his healing factor, then went on an epic fight to free the rest of the X-Men ... the list of showings goes on really.

Wolverine should take this fight in a tough battle. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a few of modern Shredder's higher end feats to prove me wrong.

#7 Edited by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks and @wyldsong and @wolverine08 You guys are in the TMNT section of the Battle Phonebook. Want to weigh in?

@super_soldierxii The Mini was from 82'. Logan was definitely a beast even back then. If it was a best of ten, how many would you put in for Logan?

Also Tparks has a Shredder Respect thread he has been showing off lately. Go to town.

#8 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice matchup @risingbean ! 80s Wolverine wasn't quite the animal modern Wolverine is now (A matchup between modern Wolverine and Shredder would be a mismatch), but he was still very dangerous, and a highly skilled fighter. Shredder will give 80s Logan a pretty good fight, but Wolverine will take the majority.

#9 Posted by tparks (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm. I'm pretty uninformed on '80s Wolverine besides a few mentions of him on this site. If his healing factor is low, Shredder could get lucky. But even without the healing factor, Wolverine still had adamantium. Assuming they are roughly equal in skill Wolverine will still have a big advantage with Adamantium. He can shred right through Shredders armor (pun somewhat intended). I'm going to have to say Wolverine unless his fighting skill was not as impressive as it is in comics now.

#10 Posted by tparks (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe if Shredder has a katana or two though, then he could win. The added range would be very helpful to keep out of Wolverines range with his claws.

#11 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Katana will be considered part of his gear as far as you are concerned then?

Logan's healing factor was middleline. I recall him being afraid of Ogun with a firearm, and in the Marvel Comics Presents 1-10, he took some weeks to heal after fighting Razorfist, and dealing with Roche's torturers, if memory serves.

He did have some badass feats, as Supersoldier mentions. He was punched into orbit, survived a Brood egg, a Hulk punch to the head, was crucified by the Reavers and had some nice scraps.

#12 Posted by tparks (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Katana will be considered part of his gear as far as you are concerned then?

Logan's healing factor was middleline. I recall him being afraid of Ogun with a firearm, and in the Marvel Comics Presents 1-10, he took some weeks to heal after fighting Razorfist, and dealing with Roche's torturers, if memory serves.

He did have some badass feats, as Supersoldier mentions. He was punched into orbit, survived a Brood egg, a Hulk punch to the head, was crucified by the Reavers and had some nice scraps.

With a katana, I'll give Shredder a pretty good chance at this. He killed legions of samurais by himself with a sword. But none of those samurais were Wolverine with an adamantium skeleton and claws. This cold probably go 5/10.

#13 Posted by Wyldsong (5445 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I think Shredder can take some wins, but with this setup, I'd probably give Wolvie the slight majority.

#14 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Fair enough.

Well I guess I'll bump this one last time as people rehash Thor vs. Hulk yet again.

#15 Posted by Wyldsong (5445 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Fair enough.

Well I guess I'll bump this one last time as people rehash Thor vs. Hulk yet again.

Personally, I applaud the thread and the thought put into it to make it interesting. I think it is a good match up my friend.

#16 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Fair enough.

Well I guess I'll bump this one last time as people rehash Thor vs. Hulk yet again.

Lol, people on the Vine don't know anything about characters who aren't big names. Need to expand their horizons.

#17 Edited by jashro44 (20849 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you limiting wolverine to only skill feats in the 80's or does this limit only apply to his healing and physicals?

#18 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Indeed. Maybe It'll get bumped randomly at some point.

@wyldsong: Appreciated. I really think it's a cool match up and I tried to make it as fair as I could. 80's Wolverine's best arcs were the Japan stuff anyhow, imho.

#19 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4239 posts) - - Show Bio

80's Wolverine huh?

Anyone remember this?

Anywho this is nearly a stalemate imo. Despite his lesser well known feats Shredder is a damn good fighter, I wanna say he'd take a slight majority 5.5/10

#20 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: Patch. The best worst disguise ever. I recall it ending up where everybody was just too intimidated to tell him they knew he was Wolverine and just played along. Ah, the good ol' days.

Nearly a stalemate? Good stuff.

#21 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I missed this, sorry man.

Yeah, limited to everything shown in the 70's and 80's.Physicals, healing, skills, concepts.

While he may not be as hardcore as he is today, I think even this version is a solid guy to beat.

#22 Posted by dondave (36619 posts) - - Show Bio

Logan

#23 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless Shredder has adamantium armor or something equivalent to protect him from Wolverines claws, i have to give it to Logan

#24 Posted by jashro44 (20849 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I missed this, sorry man.

Yeah, limited to everything shown in the 70's and 80's.Physicals, healing, skills, concepts.

While he may not be as hardcore as he is today, I think even this version is a solid guy to beat.

I only really have the wolverine/kitty pride series and his limited series with shingen before the eighties. I will have to re-read those and come back to this.

#25 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6258 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@risingbean said:

@jashro44: I missed this, sorry man.

Yeah, limited to everything shown in the 70's and 80's.Physicals, healing, skills, concepts.

While he may not be as hardcore as he is today, I think even this version is a solid guy to beat.

I only really have the wolverine/kitty pride series and his limited series with shingen before the eighties. I will have to re-read those and come back to this.

Wolverine has amazing feats from the 80's. Remember, Wolverine #1 where he is hoisting over half a dozen men with one arm was released in 1988. In that epoch, he beat Roughouse (a 50 tonner) with his fists, handled Silver Samura, Jessica Drew (Spider-Woman) Sabretooth, Bloodsport, and essentially ran the roost in Madripoor.

A lot of impressive feats are to be had from that era.

#26 Edited by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@risingbean said:

@jashro44: I missed this, sorry man.

Yeah, limited to everything shown in the 70's and 80's.Physicals, healing, skills, concepts.

While he may not be as hardcore as he is today, I think even this version is a solid guy to beat.

I only really have the wolverine/kitty pride series and his limited series with shingen before the eighties. I will have to re-read those and come back to this.

Wolverine has amazing feats from the 80's. Remember, Wolverine #1 where he is hoisting over half a dozen men with one arm was released in 1988. In that epoch, he beat Roughouse (a 50 tonner) with his fists, handled Silver Samura, Jessica Drew (Spider-Woman) Sabretooth, Bloodsport, and essentially ran the roost in Madripoor.

A lot of impressive feats are to be had from that era.

Yeah, they really emphasized Logan's skill in that era. Can't say the same for today unfortunately.

#27 Edited by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: You know what, Soldier? I recall scratching my head when they showed him hoisting up a dozen or so in one arm. I recall as a kid going "Wolverine isn't super strong. That's stupid."

Also, you look over that Shredder feat thread? That change your opinion any?

#28 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6258 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: You know what, Soldier? I recall scratching my head when they showed him hoisting up a dozen or so in one arm. I recall as a kid going "Wolverine isn't super strong. That's stupid."

Also, you look over that Shredder feat thread? That change your opinion any?

He can dish it out ... not sure how well he'll take it though. Here's Wolverine taking on a "Shredder" on steroids;

I know that's modern Wolverine, I just posted it cuz I love Joe Mad's art.
I mean ... damn. Gotta say, he's my favorite artist in comics ... by far.
Shredder's impressive. He's got the chops to hang. Not sure he's got the durability to last.
#29 Posted by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Cool scan. I'll be looking to pick up that fight at some point.

I'd agree with you in the durability bit. Shredder definitely needs to avoid damage. Otherwise it goes like Ogun. With that said, I do know Shredder could pull a possessed Shadowcat on him, though. That injury took him some time to get over.

#30 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6258 posts) - - Show Bio

@super_soldierxii: Cool scan. I'll be looking to pick up that fight at some point.

I'd agree with you in the durability bit. Shredder definitely needs to avoid damage. Otherwise it goes like Ogun. With that said, I do know Shredder could pull a possessed Shadowcat on him, though. That injury took him some time to get over.

Yeah ... it did. But then, he starts taking blows like this in the 80's as well;

And that's after having been tortured by Lady Deathstrike. He walks away from that one without needing a day to heal;
Point being, the 80's still have highs and lows for Logan's durability. I'd say they evidence more highs than lows, by far, all the same.
#31 Edited by RisingBean (3896 posts) - - Show Bio