4 X men vs Fantastic 4
They are all in their classic versions.Random encounter. F4
Mr Fantastic
Invisible Woman
Human Torch
Thing
Xmen
Wolverine
Storm
Nightcrawler
Colossus
No BFR. Win is by KO or Death. Fight takes place in the NYC. No force fields inside a body. No blocking oxygen. No teleporting off body parts
Who wins?
x-menfirst colossus will keep rock guy busy
storm will try to take down human torch which is very very easily
wolvie and nc will try to keep invi woman busy since they can sense her while invisible
storm will summon a blizzard to keep reed weak and take him out including thing if he survives colossus
then all of them will try to take out invi woman
Hmmmm..close call but I'll take the FF...
By classic do you mean Ben is only at class 5 strength levels?
If so then the X-Men handily.
Tough call, Thing has stood toe to toe with Hulk a few times (got slaughterd I know, but he has traded punches) so he can keep Colossus busy for quite some time.
Human Torch vs Storm would be an intresting airiel battle.
I would think Nightcrawller would go after Sue as he would be more affective against her forcefields than Wolverine.
Speaking of Wolverine, he would get imbaressed by Mr. Fantastic here.
So my victors in each battle go like this....
Colossus via KO
Storm via Artic cold front
Invisible Woman via exaustion
Mr. Fantastic via humiliation
____________________________
brings it down to Colossus vs Reed
and Sue vs Storm
I'll finish the finals in another post.
"Tough call, Thing has stood toe to toe with Hulk a few times (got slaughterd I know, but he has traded punches) so he can keep Colossus busy for quite some time. Human Torch vs Storm would be an intresting airiel battle.I would think Nightcrawller would go after Sue as he would be more affective against her forcefields than Wolverine. Speaking of Wolverine, he would get imbaressed by Mr. Fantastic here. So my victors in each battle go like this.... Colossus via KOStorm via Artic cold frontInvisible Woman via exaustion Mr. Fantastic via humiliation ____________________________ brings it down to Colossus vs Reed and Sue vs Storm I'll finish the finals in another post. "
Op says we're going with the classic (60's and 70's) versions of the characters. Back then, the Thing was only a 5 tonner, and Invisible Woman could hardly do anything at all with her force fields. The X-Men, on the other hand, started off fairly powerful. I think classic Colossus was somewhere around 70 tons, and Storm was already known as the powerhouse of the team.
Point taken. Thing, even then, took on the Hulk and stood his ground so I can see that battle lasting a few solid minutes.
The rest still stand, as for the final battle, with your reasoning in mind, it will come down to Storm and Colossus vs Reed.
With this two on one, the X-Men finish with relative ease.
"So you chose to severely handicap Sue why? By the way, FF still wins. Even classic versions were better than classic X-Men.
They are all in their classic versions.Random encounter. F4
Mr Fantastic
Invisible Woman
Human Torch
Thing
Xmen
Wolverine
Storm
Nightcrawler
Colossus No BFR. Win is by KO or Death. Fight takes place in the NYC. No force fields inside a body. No blocking oxygen. No teleporting off body parts Who wins? "
Classic Wolverine - Only had accelerated healing, not a healing factor.
Classic Storm - Not nearly as powerful as she is today.
Classic Nightcrawler - Might be better because he was alive back then.
Classic Colossus - Not nearly as good in any department before Magneto improved him.
While the FF have remain pretty much the same with the exception of Torch getting a big boost in power. Sue even protected the entire FF at ground zero of a nuke in classic versions.
@erik:
Classic Wolverine - Only had accelerated healing, not a healing factor
Classic Wolverine could heal. The writers just hadn't delved into that power yet. But even in the earliest issues he was seen being bitten by a velociraptor and being thrown through walls by Juggernaut without any real harm.
Classic Storm - Not nearly as powerful as she is today
That's not saying much at all. Current Storm is nearly on the Omega level. Even classic Storm was pretty dang powerful. She very nearly beat classic Magneto once. Plus, her ability to conjure up blizzards will very easily put down Mr Fantastic (weak to temperature extremes) and Human Torch (classic Spider-Man once beat him just by busting a fire hydrant and spraying it at him).
Classic Nightcrawler - Might be better because he was alive back then.
-__-
Classic Colossus - Not nearly as good in any department before Magneto improved him.
Classic Colossus also once beat the living sh#t out of Magneto, went toe-to-toe with Juggernaut, and solo curbstomped a group of robots that had given the Avengers a solid fight. Even back then, all evidence seems to put him at least at the 70 ton strength level (as opposed to classic Thing, who was at the 5 ton level).
While the FF have remain pretty much the same with the exception of Torch getting a big boost in power. Sue even protected the entire FF at ground zero of a nuke in classic versions.
Wrong.
Reed: the only one who is pretty much the same
Ben: Currently a 100 tonner, but classic version was a 5 tonner
Johnny: Much more powerful now than he was then
Sue: The most powerful member now, but halfway useless back then. Despite a few good feats from back in that era, Sue was almost invariably the one member of the team who always got into trouble or got captured, and the rest of the team would have to save her. The large majority of what she did back then was turn herself invisible, and occasionally set up extremely simple and basic force fields.
i think the ff would win. reed would outthink them. or come up with some device. and nightcrawler or storm could be taken down by a invisible forceball. reed could entrap colossus. and the thing could knock wolvie out. not to mention the torch's fire power.
the x-men will win BUT if sue can use the force field in their bodies thingy f4 will win but it is classic so x-men
storm makes a blizzard then ht is out then to her surprise reed is weakened by her blizzard so she strikes him with lightning then he is out
while storm is still doing that thing will fight colossus but colossus wins cause he is stronger
wolvie and nightcrawler will keep sue busy then th x-men gangs up on poor sue
she cannot see the invisible. when has she ever shown that power she can see the world in terms of energy yes. and that allows her to manipulate the weather. but she cannot see the invisible. . sue could just form the ball right over her and smack her on the head. sue richards could totally take out storm. plus reed is being totally underestimated here. the ff have beat tougher foes than the x-men in this time period.
now i have an idea on how this battle can go
first storm makes it rain eliminating humantorch and so the x-men can see if iw goes invisible storm doesnt need to see energy patterns to see iw she will just make it rain then colossus will take on thing and wolvie and nightcrawler gang up on iw to keep her busy reed tries to attack them but storm flash freezes him if thing is still alive storm will strike him with lightning then they gang up on iw
storm can detect the energy patterns that govern the weather. show me one scan where she detects hyperspace energy which is where sue's shield power comes from. and show me one scan or tell me an issue where she saw sue or an invisible character. and a cataract is the clouding of the lense of the eye. i did some research and could not find what you were talking about. so cite your source for this please.
"@Roddy010: storm can detect the energy patterns that govern the weather. show me one scan where she detects hyperspace energy which is where sue's shield power comes from. and show me one scan or tell me an issue where she saw sue or an invisible character. "
See... you don't get it. Storm has the ability to perceive the WORLD as different energy patterns. That's part of her canon powerset. Storm wouldn't be phased by Sue bending light around herself. I hope that helps.
that makes a little more sense. i didn't have a clue what that guy was talking about. and could not even find anything about it after doing some research. and storm can percieve different forms of energy. especially from the electromagnetic spectrum. i don't buy that she could detect sue's hyperspace field especially at this time in her career. i still think sue takes storm. but ok. maybe she can see her being invisible. but would like some more evidence.
"that makes a little more sense. i didn't have a clue what that guy was talking about. and could not even find anything about it after doing some research. and storm can percieve different forms of energy. especially from the electromagnetic spectrum. i don't buy that she could detect sue's hyperspace field especially at this time in her career. i still think sue takes storm. but ok. maybe she can see her being invisible. but would like some more evidence. "
I get what you mean. But I believe Roddy was taking the potential of Storm's powers to their inevitable conclusion. Point being Storm can percieve the world in energy patterns. She can see the energy make up of everything. I'll even go as far to say Storm may not literally "see" Sue while she's energy perceiving, but she'll see everything around Sue. But Storm is nowhere near as naive enough to believe that this weird spot in her vision is anything but Sue. You get my drift?
i get what you are saying but i don't think sue's invisibility is what takes storm down. it is her forcefield.
"Right. Well let us take a look at this here.@erik:
Classic Wolverine could heal. The writers just hadn't delved into that power yet. But even in the earliest issues he was seen being bitten by a velociraptor and being thrown through walls by Juggernaut without any real harm.
That's not saying much at all. Current Storm is nearly on the Omega level. Even classic Storm was pretty dang powerful. She very nearly beat classic Magneto once. Plus, her ability to conjure up blizzards will very easily put down Mr Fantastic (weak to temperature extremes) and Human Torch (classic Spider-Man once beat him just by busting a fire hydrant and spraying it at him).
Classic Colossus also once beat the living sh#t out of Magneto, went toe-to-toe with Juggernaut, and solo curbstomped a group of robots that had given the Avengers a solid fight. Even back then, all evidence seems to put him at least at the 70 ton strength level (as opposed to classic Thing, who was at the 5 ton level).
Wrong.
Reed: the only one who is pretty much the same
Ben: Currently a 100 tonner, but classic version was a 5 tonner
Johnny: Much more powerful now than he was then
Sue: The most powerful member now, but halfway useless back then. Despite a few good feats from back in that era, Sue was almost invariably the one member of the team who always got into trouble or got captured, and the rest of the team would have to save her. The large majority of what she did back then was turn herself invisible, and occasionally set up extremely simple and basic force fields."
- Wrong. Wolverine healed from that injury quickly and he noted that he "heals fast". It was also his adamantium that protected his body from major injury back then, or at least that was the writing for it. Even today his healing factor does not prevent injury. I do not know why you would think it would. Wolverine has been shown to be wasted by a few beers, took an extended time to heal from a battle with Sabretooth, and was even stated on paper to have accelerated healing.
- It is saying plenty. Storm was never anywhere close to what she is now with the exception of her sporadic loss of control and occasional freak outs.
- Juggernaut was nowhere near as powerful back then either so what is your point? Robots? Really?
- Show me proof that classic Thing was only a 5 tonner? He has always been able to throw down with Hulk.
- I already admitted that Torch has gone through a radical change. I do not know what you think you are proving here.
- Not true with Sue either. Poor, dated writing decisions is not at all what I was referring to. I thought it was pretty clear that I was posting about power. Sue's classic power feats are pretty in line with current ones, sexists writing for the classic Sue aside.
I know his healing factor does not prevent injury, but it does give him the ability to take severe punishment without being too badly impaired. Nobody without either 1) superhuman durability or 2) a healing factor could have taken attacks like the ones I mentioned, and just shrug them off.Wrong. Wolverine healed from that injury quickly and he noted that he "heals fast". It was also his adamantium that protected his body from major injury back then, or at least that was the writing for it. Even today his healing factor does not prevent injury. I do not know why you would think it would. Wolverine has been shown to be wasted by a few beers, took an extended time to heal from a battle with Sabretooth, and was even stated on paper to have accelerated healing.
I realize she is far more powerful now than she was then, but saying that does not mean she was a wuss back then. Her major showings back then were somewhat common, and not just 'occasional freak outs'.It is saying plenty. Storm was never anywhere close to what she is now with the exception of her sporadic loss of control and occasional freak outs.
You're discounting the feat I mentioned simply because it dealt with robots? wtf dude.Juggernaut was nowhere near as powerful back then either so what is your point? Robots? Really?
And though Juggernaut wasn't as powerful back then, trading punches with him at any time is a notable strength feat.
Show me proof that classic Thing was only a 5 tonner? He has always been able to throw down with Hulk.
I'm not much of a Fantastic 4 fan, so I haven't actually read most of their early books. The '5 ton' thing is just something I have heard from pretty much everyone else on Comicvine in fights that deal with early Thing. You are actually the first person I've seen to indicate anything to the contarary.
I already admitted that Torch has gone through a radical change. I do not know what you think you are proving here.
I was trying to say that Torch isn't the only member of the F4 who had gone through a radical change.
Not true with Sue either. Poor, dated writing decisions is not at all what I was referring to. I thought it was pretty clear that I was posting about power. Sue's classic power feats are pretty in line with current ones, sexists writing for the classic Sue aside.
Again, I'm not much of an F4 reader, so my knowledge here is a bit limited. But I have never seen an instance of early Sue Storm pulling off any feats that compare to current Sue. Do you have any examples?
- I never meant to imply that Storm was weak back then.
- Yes. Avengers robots from the classic days would get trashed by B listers today. So wtf yourself.
- True with trading blows with Juggernaut. But strong back then does not mean just as strong today.
- Okay with the Thing.
- I see.
- Yes. I do and will be happy to provide them for your collection. I can provide more if you want to tell me what you consider the cut off is for Classic to Modern.
Storm can take out all of them except Sue. Ife Wolverine finds her with his senses and takes her out fast ( well he of Kurt with his
teleportation ) , this battle goes to the X-Men.
@erik:
I never meant to imply that Storm was weak back then
My mistake then. I suppose I misinterpreted what you said.
Yes. Avengers robots from the classic days would get trashed by B listers today.
Yeah, true dat.
True with trading blows with Juggernaut. But strong back then does not mean just as strong today. Okay with the Thing.
Agreed.
Yes. I do and will be happy to provide them for your collection.
Hmm. The feat you showed was quite impressive. I was under the impression she had chosen the name 'Invisible Girl' because invisibility was the only trick she could easily do back then. I thought her force field powers took a while to develope.
- It is okay. I guess I was a little vague with how I worded Storm's comparison.
- Yeah. At first, her invisibility was her most notable power. Once she gained a solid grasp on her bubbles within a few issues, the Thing could pound on them with all his might and Sue would barely notice.
If a couple of these wouldn't work she can always blow him with his winds (she did it with WWH )
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment