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#1 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

1000 average people unarmed, versus Captain America without his shield. They are locked in a building that is 500 feet wide, 1000 feet long, and 100 feet high.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by _Obsidian_ (5028 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the 1000 will win eventually, but not without a long fight. ^^

#3 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"Isn't Captain America a WWII vet?"

Your point is...

#4 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm thinking Cap. Doesn't his serum keep him from getting tired by eliminating the acidic build-up?

#5 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Captain America a WWII vet?

#6 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"mantoid says:
"White Mage says:
"Isn't Captain America a WWII vet?"
Your point is..."
I was about to say the same thing... LOL. Anyway, I think Cap would have it easier if he had his shield. Other than that, I don't think he could fully take out 1000 people at once. Maybe somewhere between 250 and 500...."

I know that Cap. would be much better with his shield, that is why I chose to have him not use it.

I agree that Cap. might be able to beat 250-500, but 1000 would be sure to overwhelm him.

Think of a giant dogpile. Like this picture, except like 50 times bigger.

#7 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"White Mage says:
"Isn't Captain America a WWII vet?"

Your point is..."

I was about to say the same thing... LOL. Anyway, I think Cap would have it easier if he had his shield. Other than that, I don't think he could fully take out 1000 people at once. Maybe somewhere between 250 and 500....

#8 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

Super-Buster says:

"I'm thinking Cap. Doesn't his serum keep him from getting tired by eliminating the acidic build-up?"

He can still get tired after exerting himself at peak capacity for an hour.

#9 Posted by TheGoldenSurfer10000 (243 posts) - - Show Bio

LOl That's So Unfair For Cap America.

#10 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

1000 people would just trample him very easily. He might take out the first few, but he would be overwhelmed quickly.

#11 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"mantoid says:
" I know that Cap. would be much better with his shield, that is why I chose to have him not use it. I agree that Cap. might be able to beat 250-500, but 1000 would be sure to overwhelm him. Think of a giant dogpile. Like this picture, except like 50 times bigger.
Yeah." />http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2007/05/29/Foresters_Dogpile.jpg"
Yeah. No way Cap is getting out of that..."

Which do you think he would die first of:

-The massive weight

or

-The lack of oxygen

#12 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"I know that Cap. would be much better with his shield, that is why I chose to have him not use it.I agree that Cap. might be able to beat 250-500, but 1000 would be sure to overwhelm him.Think of a giant dogpile. Like this picture, except like 50 times bigger.
" />http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2007/05/29/Foresters_Dogpile.jpg"

Yeah. No way Cap is getting out of that...

#13 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"Static Shock says:
"mantoid says:
" I know that Cap. would be much better with his shield, that is why I chose to have him not use it. I agree that Cap. might be able to beat 250-500, but 1000 would be sure to overwhelm him. Think of a giant dogpile. Like this picture, except like 50 times bigger.
Yeah." />http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2007/05/29/Foresters_Dogpile.jpg"
Yeah. No way Cap is getting out of that..."

Which do you think he would die first of:

-The massive weight

or

-The lack of oxygen"

he would be crushed.

#14 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"Which do you think he would die first of:**-The massive weight**or**-The lack of oxygen**"

The weight would kill him before the loss of oxygen would. Death from loss of oxygen is a slow process.

#15 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"Static Shock says:
"White Mage says:
"For instance, somenoe comes up to him, and he just tosses them over the edge of the building.
They are all inside the building."
Good Lord. "

I know, isn't it insane?

#16 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"White Mage says:
"Isn't Captain America a WWII vet?"
Your point is..."
There were a lotta people in WWII lol. Anywho, without the shield, Captain America is still a superb fighter, and a pretty agile fella. Also, the fact that he is inside of the building you described could be either an advantage, or disadvantage for him, considering that EVERYONE is unarmed. For instance, somenoe comes up to him, and he just tosses them over the edge of the building. And the fact that they are average at that? Maybe, maybe not.*shrugs*
#17 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it more likely that he would tire out than that he would be overwhelmed by them. Only so many can get near him at a time, as the others would be in the way. As normal people, he only has to hit them once and they will go down, so he would know to place his shots carefully so as not to tire himself out. His reaction time is so far above a normal person that he is moving like a blur and sometimes its said that he can move faster than another person can see. He moves too quickly to get caught in a dogpile.

Actually, thinking more about it, he would probably use them against each other. Dodge a punch here, making that hit someone else. They wouldn't be as devastating as his hits, but they would keep down the number of adversaries he has to pay attention to at any given time. Being untrained fighters, he doesn't need to do much to make them get in each other's way.

He can grab one person and throw them into the others, knocking the crowd back, to give himself more room. He can use his acrobatic ability to flip from one person's shoulders and land on someone else's head.

I think if he conserved his energy that he could win this fight. In fact I find it more likely that he would win it then that he would lose. The only chance the 1000 really has is if he gets tired, but that would take probably hours as he conserves energy and I dont think 1000 normal people could last hours against him.

#18 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"For instance, somenoe comes up to him, and he just tosses them over the edge of the building.

They are all inside the building.

#19 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"White Mage says:
"For instance, somenoe comes up to him, and he just tosses them over the edge of the building.
They are all inside the building."
Good Lord.
#20 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL

#21 Posted by Super-Buster (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Cap would be agile enough to avoid a dogpile and he wouldn't have to exert himself at peak capacity since he would be able to take out pretty much all of them with a single move, possibly using their force against them so he wouldn't have to exert himself so much.

#22 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"Do you know how much 1000 people weigh? Say each person is 150 pounds, that is 150,000 pounds, or 75 tons."

So? Youre assuming that he stands there waiting while people who are probably around four times slower than he is all run up and jump on top of him. Why would he do that?

#23 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#24 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you know how much 1000 people weigh?

Say each person is 150 pounds, that is 150,000 pounds, or 75 tons.

#25 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

you don't have to watch the whole thing (and it's in french), but I'm seeing the whole fight (save for the nunchakus) going a little bit like this.

#26 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"mantoid says:
"Do you know how much 1000 people weigh? Say each person is 150 pounds, that is 150,000 pounds, or 75 tons."
So? Youre assuming that he stands there waiting while people who are probably around four times slower than he is all run up and jump on top of him. Why would he do that?"

It would be a flood of people, no matter what he tried to do, people would eventually tackle him, then the dogpile would begin.

#27 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"It would be a flood of people, no matter what he tried to do, people would eventually tackle him, then the dogpile would begin."

And why would he not just jump on top of them flipping from one person to the next? One normal person would get overwhelmed by a flood of people or if he was in a confined space, then a flood of people could overwhelm Captain America, but you made a huge building for a master acrobat to work in. He wouldn't need to stay in one place and let a flood of people overwhelm him.

#28 Posted by Tem Borjigin (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it would be possible for them to dogpile him. He is strong enough to casually one-shot people while jumping 20 feet in the air to prevent dogpiles. It would be like trying to dogpile a polar bear that moves like a small monkey. It aint happening.

#29 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

PhoenixSouvenir says:

"you don't have to watch the whole thing (and it's in french), but I'm seeing the whole fight (save for the nunchakus) going a little bit like this.
http://www.youtube.com/v/5q9kYKtvYU0&hl=en width=425 height=355 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent">"

That is intense! Wow.

#30 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, and that many people would be a benefit to him; as many of them would just get bulled over and trampled by the rest. So technically he would be fighting all 1000, just the ones that get close enough to catch an extremity to the face (or solar plexus, or knee cap, etc.)

#31 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, I'm not sure what's the principle is called but there's a thing about the larger the group the more exponential the possible chaos, meaning: He wouldn't have to do much - a simple push-off counter against an attacker could easily cause a domino effect that would, albeit momentarily, incapacitate half the crowd. A bum rush would work in his favor while a calculated assault would not. If they were all mind controlled by Doom or someone then he'd probably take out about 150-200 people before he goes down; but I can see him taking down all of them if they were just an angry mob.

#32 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"PhoenixSouvenir says:
"If they were all mind controlled by Doom or someone then he'd probably take out about 150-200 people before he goes down; but I can see him taking down all of them if they were just an angry mob."
Yes if they were all trained or controlled to act in unison, then he would have no chance, but 1000 normal people would get more in each others' way than in his."

But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?

#33 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

PhoenixSouvenir says:

"you don't have to watch the whole thing (and it's in french), but I'm seeing the whole fight (save for the nunchakus) going a little bit like this.
"

thats far from realistic. No one in real life would be able to take on more than 2 opponents easily. Cap would get overwhelmed and destroyed.

#34 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

PhoenixSouvenir says:

"If they were all mind controlled by Doom or someone then he'd probably take out about 150-200 people before he goes down; but I can see him taking down all of them if they were just an angry mob."

Yes if they were all trained or controlled to act in unison, then he would have no chance, but 1000 normal people would get more in each others' way than in his.

#35 Posted by Tem Borjigin (120 posts) - - Show Bio

If Cap had normal stats, maybe, but we are talking about someone who breaks steel. Cap is, as I said, effectively a polar bear who moves like a small monkey. Normal humans would suffer grizzly casualties even if he didn't use skill and just flailed wildly. When you combine his stats and skill, normal humans get slaughtered in large chunks.

#36 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?"

At some point they would think to do that, but remember that he can move at least four times faster than they can, and drop a person with one hit. He can launch an attack and take out four or five before they can respond to him. As bodies start piling up on the ground, they are more of an obstacle to the others than they are to Cap. Those who were still up would be tripping over bodies and slipping on blood for the rest of the fight. And the less they push him, the less tired he would get.

#37 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"mantoid says:
"But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?"
At some point they would think to do that, but remember that he can move at least four times faster than they can, and drop a person with one hit. He can launch an attack and take out four or five before they can respond to him. As bodies start piling up on the ground, they are more of an obstacle to the others than they are to Cap. Those who were still up would be tripping over bodies and slipping on blood for the rest of the fight. And the less they push him, the less tired he would get."

That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him.

#38 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just sayin . . .(^_^)

#39 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it is possible for cap to be able to keep some space between himself and the people, but pretty unlikely. I believe the the dogpile would eventually happen and then crush cap to death.

#40 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

Slinger says:

"I think it is possible for cap to be able to keep some space between himself and the people, but pretty unlikely. I believe the the dogpile would eventually happen and then crush cap to death."

The weight in a dogpile would be displaced and spread out, so he wouldn't get crushed.

#41 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Ebony Bishop says:

"A dogpile would be stupid...who wants to be the guys on first? Those people are getting killed as well. Who's volunteering to be fodder just to kill one guy?"

Think of it this way,

What if they were all Nazis?

#42 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him."

Sure but with his experience and his reaction time it is unlikely that they would get the drop on him. But even if they could, he's been hit by considerably stronger than an average strength individual and would shake off whatever they did while knocking them out with one attack.

We haven't even gone into how he can instantly strategize against even the toughest and most skilled opponents. He could easily use anything in that building, including the piling up bodies, walls, pools of blood, etc. to his advantage and once that first person who was faking being unconscious failed, he would be on the look out for that. If you described the building beyond your first post I missed it, but the more that is in that building the better for him. He can create bottlenecks that they would find difficult to get around or through just by piling up bodies in a doorway, he can smash through walls when they have to go around from room to room, he can keep them from getting to him in force by staying in an area where there is a bottleneck and only have to face a small number of them at any one time.

But even if it's just an open warehouse, that favors him with all of the things I said he could do earlier. Their only chance is that they can keep him active enough, long enough to tire to the degree that their slow reaction time, strength, durability, etc. is not as much of a detriment as it is normally. But they would really need to be coordinated to do that to him and normally people dont just come together and coordinate themselves in that fashion.

#43 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"Forever says:
"mantoid says:
"But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?"
At some point they would think to do that, but remember that he can move at least four times faster than they can, and drop a person with one hit. He can launch an attack and take out four or five before they can respond to him. As bodies start piling up on the ground, they are more of an obstacle to the others than they are to Cap. Those who were still up would be tripping over bodies and slipping on blood for the rest of the fight. And the less they push him, the less tired he would get."

That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him."

One normal person launching a surprise attack on Captain America wouldn't do that much...I could launch a surprise attack on an Ultimate Fighter, and might even hit him once or twice, and then he'd kill me.

#44 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

A dogpile would be stupid...who wants to be the guys on first? Those people are getting killed as well. Who's volunteering to be fodder just to kill one guy?

#45 Posted by mantoid (2305 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"mantoid says:
"That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him."
Sure but with his experience and his reaction time it is unlikely that they would get the drop on him. But even if they could, he's been hit by considerably stronger than an average strength individual and would shake off whatever they did while knocking them out with one attack. We haven't even gone into how he can instantly strategize against even the toughest and most skilled opponents. He could easily use anything in that building, including the piling up bodies, walls, pools of blood, etc. to his advantage and once that first person who was faking being unconscious failed, he would be on the look out for that. If you described the building beyond your first post I missed it, but the more that is in that building the better for him. He can create bottlenecks that they would find difficult to get around or through just by piling up bodies in a doorway, he can smash through walls when they have to go around from room to room, he can keep them from getting to him in force by staying in an area where there is a bottleneck and only have to face a small number of them at any one time. But even if it's just an open warehouse, that favors him with all of the things I said he could do earlier. Their only chance is that they can keep him active enough, long enough to tire to the degree that their slow reaction time, strength, durability, etc. is not as much of a detriment as it is normally. But they would really need to be coordinated to do that to him and normally people dont just come together and coordinate themselves in that fashion."

My mind is fading...

You win!

#46 Posted by Trauma (5884 posts) - - Show Bio

wow umm captian America would take out alot of people but eventually he might get tired and evade the situation or get dog piled on but i think he would take out moe than half the people

#47 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio

Ebony Bishop says:

"mantoid says:
"Forever says:
"mantoid says:
"But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?"
At some point they would think to do that, but remember that he can move at least four times faster than they can, and drop a person with one hit. He can launch an attack and take out four or five before they can respond to him. As bodies start piling up on the ground, they are more of an obstacle to the others than they are to Cap. Those who were still up would be tripping over bodies and slipping on blood for the rest of the fight. And the less they push him, the less tired he would get."

That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him."

One normal person launching a surprise attack on Captain America wouldn't do that much...I could launch a surprise attack on an Ultimate Fighter, and might even hit him once or twice, and then he'd kill me."

but if you and 3 friends attacked him you would beat him easily. You just can't take on multiple opponents and win.

#48 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

mantoid says:

"Ebony Bishop says:
"A dogpile would be stupid...who wants to be the guys on first? Those people are getting killed as well. Who's volunteering to be fodder just to kill one guy?"

Think of it this way,

What if they were all Nazis?"

Being a Nazi doesn't make one suicidal.

The only reason athletes dogpile is that they know they're only ending up with 8 to 10 people on them. If I was one of the thousand, and Cap was ready for us, I would not be the first one to jump on him when 1000 people were going to dogpile him.

#49 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

the human Juggernaut says:

"but if you and 3 friends attacked him you would beat him easily. You just can't take on multiple opponents and win. "

Maybe you can't take multiple opponents, but I have done so before and I've seen it happen plenty of times. It depends on the number of people you're fighting at one time. I once got into a fight at a club, and held off three dudes myself before my homeboys came to help. They all came at me and I knocked out one of them with one hit, and handled the other two effectively... Fighting one person is easier, but fighting two or three is not as difficult as it may seem. You just have to know how to assess the situation.
Post Edited:2008-05-30 16:19:27

#50 Posted by Tem Borjigin (120 posts) - - Show Bio

the human Juggernaut says:

"Ebony Bishop says:
"mantoid says:
"Forever says:
"mantoid says:
"But what if the people stood back, and huddled together. They form a plan and do it. What then?"
At some point they would think to do that, but remember that he can move at least four times faster than they can, and drop a person with one hit. He can launch an attack and take out four or five before they can respond to him. As bodies start piling up on the ground, they are more of an obstacle to the others than they are to Cap. Those who were still up would be tripping over bodies and slipping on blood for the rest of the fight. And the less they push him, the less tired he would get."
That is true, but with the bodies piling up, some people could fake it on the ground, and wait until Cap. came close. Then they could launch a surprise attack on him."
One normal person launching a surprise attack on Captain America wouldn't do that much...I could launch a surprise attack on an Ultimate Fighter, and might even hit him once or twice, and then he'd **kill** me."
but if you and 3 friends attacked him you would beat him easily. You just can't take on multiple opponents and win. "
You keep ignoring his stats. He is not just a big guy; he is comic book peak human. In real world terms that makes him as strong or stronger than a large bear, with the agility of the most agile monkey's or greater. Stop thinking he's just a big guy and really think about what I am saying, with the understanding that I am not using hyperbole in the slightest. Picture one of the larger bears tearing into a crowd with the insane speed and agility of a monkey. Picture their punches and kicks doing almost nothing while the bear somersaults around one-shotting people. That's what would happen if Cap really cut loose on a crowd full of normals.
Post Edited:2008-05-30 16:29:04