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#1 Edited by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1

Persian Immortals: sword, spear, bow and arrow, shield.

Spartans: spear, sword shield.

Samurai: sword, bow and arrow, dagger.

Knights: shield, sword, spear, cross bow.

Takes place in on an island.

No prep no prior knowledge all have full armours.

Round 2

No armour or weapons purely hand to hand.

takes place in a desert island.

Provide reason.

#2 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights for a solid majority. Knights/Samurai have a HUGE tech advantage over Spartans and Persians, and Spartans wouldn't be too far ahead in individual skill due to time difference. Persians were generally lightly armored, hence why the Spartans with their heavy bronze armor and shields were their bane.

Samurai are lacking a shield (as well as general training with one) and would get torn apart by crossbow fire before melee fighting began.

#3 Edited by Herald417 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights dominate due to cross bow eliminating that its good fight between knights and samurai

#4 Posted by GreatCaesarsGhost (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights dominate due to cross bow eliminating that its good fight between knights and samurai

This.

#5 Posted by mightyrearranger (1714 posts) - - Show Bio

I just pictured 400 people all crammed into one of the stages from Deadliest Warrior: The Video Game. :D

#6 Posted by XImpossibruX (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights dominate due to cross bow eliminating that its good fight between knights and samurai



I have no idea how accurate 300 was at representing a Spartan army's skill so i'm gong with this^

#7 Posted by robertloucksjr (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights, best armor and weapons due to superior technology and metals. Spartans used bronze, Persians used bronze and were lightly armored, and Samurai had lousy steel (got their ore from iron sands which even their smithing could only do so much with) through their rapid fire bows are nice. The Spartans could win as they had the best team fighting skills, though they were dependent on fighting in large open spaces where their phalanx long spear attacks were most effective.

#8 Posted by NiKKaL (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the island, hot Spartans and knight armor would be bad for the wearer, cold theyll be fine. Not every knight had good armor or even armor, same goes for samurais, Spartans fought two by two and in groups. crossbow and bow both have strengths and weaknesses, bows have less moving parts. Tough. I would have to go spartan, island Terrain, they were bred to survive I don't think they would fight the way the other groups would. They would probably make a new way of battle on the fly.

#9 Edited by reikai (4660 posts) - - Show Bio

If anyone studied anything, Samurai dominate the entire way. Crossbows have a shorter range than bows, they only hit harder within a shorter range. And, depending on the type of crossbow, it can take 10-15sec to reload or even up to half a minute. Wasted time when a Samurai only takes a second or two to pull an arrow from his quiver and notch it.

The Spartans are actually at a disadvantage since their primary form of attack and defense revolves around their Phalanx maneuver. Other tactics were not as effective so they weren't focused upon. However, Samurai and Knights have both had to fight in open fields and build tactics to help them in various terrain. Samurai and Immortals may have the best chance here for better range and both have operated upon more island countries and areas than the other two.

The Persian Immortals weren't unskilled. However they relied heavily upon superior numbers to overwhelm and discourage their enemies. This tactic will not work because they have a limited number and no reinforcements. Which means arrows and high ground would be the first move for them, the same as the samurai.

And I'm not sure why Samurai were limited to only a few weapons when there are several others they were well known to use. Like the nodachi, naginata, and other tools. Plus in various tests, the katana always came out to be a superior weapon next to the European longsword.

#10 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

samurais

#11 Posted by Herald417 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

I agree with a lot of what you said. Its true that the Samurai bow (yumi bow) has exceptional range and accuracy the reason that I give the overwhelming advantage to the crossbow is the power that the bow provides. the cross bow will be able to punch through any of the armor that the combatants wear. Where the Knights armor with steel plate and chain mail should be able to stop the samurai arrow.

I personally prefer the Samurai, they are my favorite warrior culture but I don't think they will be able to take the knights. The reason is due to the cross bow, and the knights armor design being strong enough to stop a katana. Your correct that the katana is superior to the european longsword in tests that measure cutting power, but the main purpose of the longsword is bludgeoning not cutting allowing for damage to be done even when the blade cannot pierce the armor. The Katana doesn't have the weight to do the same effect.

I agree if the Samurai are able to use the naginata it can tip the scales but I would still put it in the knights favor.

#12 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are all the rest specified while the knights aren't? Are these French Knights, Teutonic knights, Knights Templar or something else?

#13 Posted by TheSuperHuman (918 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm probably the only one, from my experience, who says Spartans should have a clear victory. They have history battling opponents in armor. The Spartans are clever enough to figure out that the Immortals are not immortal, the Knights have little mobility that will hinder (in limelight) their technique, and thanks to Deadliest Warrior, Samurai lost to the Spartan (I know, I know - not exactly a fair estimate). But that's what I think.

#15 Posted by ZombieMowlcher (689 posts) - - Show Bio

The other three are gonna have a hard time getting past the Spartans' shield.

#16 Posted by reikai (4660 posts) - - Show Bio

@herald417: "Should" but not quite. Arrow volleys were still lethal to knights, even in full armor. And fully capable of penetrating chainmail as indicated in Deadliest Warrior against the Viking whose chainmail is little to no different than that used by a knight.

Also to be noted that the Samurai's armor is very comparable in durability to that of a Knights, while being a bit lighter and allowing for better mobility. One thing to note on the armor is that, while it can take a slashing strike from a katana for the most part, the katana can still be used as a thrusting weapon and has better penetration than even the longsword due to its shorter length and sturdier blade.

There was also the Kanabo mentioned in DW, which is a studded club used for bashing and it broke the viking's shield quite easily, though doubtful against the steel or iron shield of a knight. The impact, however, is still enough to fracture or even break the arm holding the shield.

I also like this.

#17 Edited by Herald417 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

Thats true that deadliest warrior proved that it could pierce chain mail but most knights wore steel plate over chain mail which I don't believe it will pierce due to even when DW showed it piercing chain mail it didn't have a high penetration.

I'm not sure which variation of Knight it is being discussed in the op but I personally thought it was the classic steel plate knight which even though the samurai is able to pierce the plate he won't be able to pierce both the plate and the chain mail and do so in manner that will not leave him open for a reprisal from the knight. The samurai armor is steal plate layered over leather which allows for the greater mobility this is comparable to the knights armor but most knights depending on the period wore chain mail under their steel plate. Which did further restrict their mobility but also allowed for greater protection.

The Kanobo was effective against the viking shield which was made of wood but I don't think it will transfer the impact enough through the knights steel shields to damage their arm sufficiently to break or incapacitate it

eAlso Epic video its one of my favorites

#18 Posted by reikai (4660 posts) - - Show Bio

@herald417: It all depends on where you strike. As seen, the longsword doesn't do as well against leather as more curved weapons like the katana can. With the steel over that it'd be difficult for the knight to cause damage either.

Which brings up as to why the knight only has a few limited weapons as well. They had lances, morning stars, and other heavier, harder hitting weapons they could use to better penetrate armor. Without them I would say the Samurai would win by being quicker and more skilled with their chosen weapon. The Samurai will go for joints and gaps in the armor, and the Knight would be hard pressed to respond.

What is generally a larger weakness for the knight, aside from the mobility issue, are the helmets. A number of them have only small openings for the eyes to diminish the chance of getting an arrow in the face. However, this also limits the field of vision. Some samurai helms are like that, but most cover the head and have a mask plate that doesn't cover the eyes, giving a wider range of vision.

#19 Posted by Herald417 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

I hate arguing against the samurai but its true that the longsword had difficulty with piercing the leather armor but that test didn't measure the striking power of the European longsword which is its key feature.

Thats true that a lot of their heavier weapons were left out but the knights still have the crossbow and their spear both of which would allow them to pierce the samurai armor

I completely agree that the samurai are quicker and more skilled but to be far the knights had an comparable amount of training and due to the advantage their armor brings them have to rely somewhat less on skill. Also the samurai may be able to go at gaps in their armor but in doing so would need to be perfect ensuring that the knight did not connect any blows while the samurai attempted to land multiple debilitating blows to get the kill. I think that some out of the 100 could do it but I think the majority would wind up losing.

The vision piece is a factor but the samurai do not have that much greater of a field of vision to level the playing field. As you said a lot of samurai helmets act in a similar manner to that of the knights, so it winds up with a situation where some samurai would have a better field of vision but the majority would be equal to that of the knights. The immortals would actually using their traditional armor have the best field of vision out of any of the competitors.

Overall I think the knight takes the majority with samurai holding a strong dominating minority followed by the spartans and then the persians.

#20 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#21 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Allow me to repeat,

@thc said:

Samurai are lacking a shield (as well as general training with one) and would get torn apart by crossbow fire before melee fighting began.

Also, the Knights would have bows available to them as well simply after killing some Immortals and/or Samurai. Depending on the crossbow and the bows involved in the battle, range difference between the two will vary.

#22 Posted by capall2 (1427 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights win due to armour here...

#23 Edited by MisterWhisper (2187 posts) - - Show Bio

Do not put much faith in the Deadliest Warrior show, that thing was rife with inaccuracies.

#24 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20224 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless knights are given their horses, samurai should take this, possibly in close competition with the knights even without a horse..considering knights wore rather heavy armor, slowing them down and all, (If I recall right, I saw somewhere that katana is able to cause very good amount damage to heavy armor, too. I guess it was a comparison of katana and broad/long sword) I'd put samurai, then knight, then, spartan, then immortal. But, 300 version of spartan and immortal could floor the other two.. still, it's just fiction. With horses and full arsenal, though, knights should take it, due to advantage of cross bows etc.

But, some comments saying full armor = win.. don't seem very accurate to me. Full armor also means less mobility and all. knights can win, but just armor is not even close to being the only reason required.

If armor and stuff are on similar level (no advantages due to time gap), I'd put samurai, spartan, then knight and immortal, considering the first two were known for their systematic and fierce training respectively, while knights, as far as I have read, haven't really impressed me with their training and seemingly relied more on the armor.. nor did I find immortals very interesting.

So close range, standard tech: samurai, knight, spartan, immortal

Close range, fair tech: samurai, spartan, knight=><immortal

Ranged and close: Knight, samurai, spartan, immortal

Full arsenal: Knight, samurai, spartan, immortal. the list could go on and on depending on different situations.

Now, this is assuming a normal field on island. Terrain can play a very large role in these things.

#25 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

i added a round 2.

who wins now

#26 Posted by AnyWhichWayButUp (760 posts) - - Show Bio

Immortals<Samurai<Spartan<Knights. Spartans have more training than the samurai and they have a much higher tolerance to pain since they train from like 4 years old. Knights are pretty much similar but with armor. Samurai are pretty tough but not all that great. Immortals got their name since when they died someone would replace them. That's not gonna work here. Round 2 Samurai more martial arts training.

#27 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: The Knights should win due to vastly superior Armour. The Samurais Bows may indeed be strong enough to pierce their armour...but the Knights have shields which should provide them with more than enough protection from the bows of the others. The Spears of the Spartans won't be very effective if thrown against the Knights. The Samurai have no protection against the Crossbow...although against these opponents a Crossbow is less ideal than using a traditional bow. Crossbows are designed to puncture heavy armour even at great distances...but they are slow to reload. Likely they won't even bother with reloading

Round 2: Probably the Samurai or the Spartans. Jujutsu was a big part of the Samurai Lifestyle. Knights were trained to fight with sword, shield, and armour...unarmed and unarmoured combat was not emphasized. The Spartans might be trained in Pankration (which is a Greek Martial Art combining Boxing and Wrestling). I'm not sure what kind of unarmed training the Immortals would have received.

#28 Edited by Sideslash (5918 posts) - - Show Bio

Do the Spartans get a rousing campfire pep talk from Leonidas the night before?

#29 Posted by whitecracka23 (69 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by InFamous_Wolf (1002 posts) - - Show Bio

Do the Spartans get a rousing campfire pep talk from Leonidas the night before?

If they do then the Spartans stomp lol

#31 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20224 posts) - - Show Bio

At range, Knights should be at a good advantage against immortals and samurai because of the crossbow's strong bolts, but it also increases the reloading time. Spartans should be able to minimize the damage with the shields. Samurai bows hit less, but are faster (probably have a better range, too, iirc?). Either way, I'm with what I said earlier.

#32 Posted by Lazenblaze (92 posts) - - Show Bio

spartan both rounds. round one ,unless the other three gang up on them and attack from all sides they are easily mowed down by the phalanx.

#33 Posted by Spartan101 (2489 posts) - - Show Bio

spartans,shields are the turning point to take a win.

#34 Edited by ImTheBat (59 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's laughable how people think bronze vs steel is a big factor. Deadliest Warrior proven steel of Samurai weapons left little damage to bronze shields of Hoplites like Spartans have. Laughable. The Spartans take second in this easy only being beaten by knights who have crossbows here. Spartans are train from the get go as professional soldiers in tactics and physical training. There disciplin is equal to any Samurai. The fact we are using 100 would mean the Spartans have advantage in teamwork and military tactics. Samurai and knights have VERY little training overall in formations or disciplin. Both care more for personnel honor or glory than team work or sacrifice for the greater whole. Spartans win e everything due to the numbers for tactics to come into play. Only knights crossbow would murder stomp everyone. Highly unfair, might as well give them guns.

#35 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8851 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights were the most technologically advanced of the "middle age" warriors, the next step was gunpowder. Even though Samurai and Spartans are probably slightly more skilled, they can't make up for the beating the Knight's gear can take. Spartan's bronze weapons won't really make a dent, and most of the Samurai's weapons are designed for slashing against lightly armored/unarmored opponents. Spartans are the Knight biggest threat, because of their shields. The Spartan shield can deliver a great deal of blunt force trauma. The deciding edge in their battle is the Knight's ranged weapon, their own shield to dissipate the impact of the Spartan shield slams, and the full body encasement of the Knight. Otherwise: Knight Halberd (they didn't use spears) > Spartan Spear, Broadsword > Spartan Xyphos. Spartan Phalanx tactics are likely better than the tactics the Knights bring to bear, as Knights typically fought smaller engagements. But again, they won't find many openings in the Knight armor, Knights actually built upon the example set by the Spartans, they were the next step in combat evolution.

Round 2 I don't know, none of them really specialized in hand to hand. I'd lean Spartans due to Pancreation though.

#36 Posted by Lazenblaze (92 posts) - - Show Bio

spartans all the way sorry knight fans crossbows are useless against the shield. like i said before the other threes only hope is to team up

#37 Edited by Erick_Williams (758 posts) - - Show Bio

Samurai then Spartans then very close Knights and then Persians at last

#38 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8851 posts) - - Show Bio

spartans all the way sorry knight fans crossbows are useless against the shield. like i said before the other threes only hope is to team up

You do know saying they win is not really the best argument right? And the bronze weapons of the Spartan are next to useless against the Knight's platemail. The Spartan's best weapon against the Knight is their shield, but they can't attack and defend at the same time. Plus, a Spartan would not even know what a crossbow is, or what range and accuracy it is capable of. They'd take casualties before they even perceived it as a threat.

#39 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9770 posts) - - Show Bio

While Spartans might be the most skilled, I don't see how their Bronze weaponry will get past Knights much better armor. Samurai could be a problem, but I feel Knights weapons are going to carry more impact and are more suited for getting past armor. So I say Knights>Samurai>Spartans>Immortals

#40 Posted by Lazenblaze (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: you realize saying spartans wouldnt realize what a crossbow is till its to late is idoitic right. so ask yourself this how the hell are the other 3 groups in round one going to combat the phalanx they have no horses,catapults,fire.also the knights armour has bare spots right and its not like the spartans havent went up against armoured opponents before.No one has yet to say how the phanax will be over camed.hell I can take a wooden baseball bat and beat a slow knight to death.

#41 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8851 posts) - - Show Bio

@lazenblaze:

Spartan's have never seen crossbows before. None of them have. And you still haven't addressed how the Spartan's weapons will damage the Knight. As for the phalanx, they are going to phalanx 3 different opponents at once? And not get overwhelmed? They aren't fighting in Thermopylae pass, they can't bottleneck these enemies and force them to take them on directly. The Knight's weapons are designed to crunch, pierce, and slice through another Knight's armor, which again is superior in every way to a Spartan's. "Spartans haven't faced armored opponents before", and Knights face cats and dogs on the battlefield, right. Not to mention, as I said before, Knights built upon the groundwork laid by the Spartans, they took it to the next level because they had the technology to do so. Knight armor has plate steel, under that is chain mail, under that is leather armor. Oh, and a Kite Shield. The only vulnerable areas are the inside of the elbow (still has chain mail and leather) and the back of the knee (still has chain mail and leather). Very small, highly protected vulnerable spots. In order to fight in the phalanx, Spartans push with the shield, open up and thrust the spear. Key words: open up. They can't thrust from behind the shield, it's too large. They overpower, off balance, and strike. Great plan, one flaw: the spear will not pierce plate. Bronze is not durable enough to overcome steel, that's why the human race started using steel in place of other metals like bronze and iron. Again, the Spartan's greatest weapon against the Knight is the shield, which provides high-impact blunt force trauma. But, if they are striking with it, the Spartans are not defending with it. The Spartans are the most skilled here, not overwhelmingly so but enough, but that cannot compete with the evolution of warfare.

Also, calling someone idiotic really shows you have nothing better to debate with than calling names, nothing back up your argument.

Oh, and beat a Knight down with a bat? Seriously? Not even worth me elaborating.

Round 1: Knight

Round 2: Spartan

Still.

#42 Edited by WarBlade539 (4753 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

If anyone studied anything, Samurai dominate the entire way. Crossbows have a shorter range than bows, they only hit harder within a shorter range. And, depending on the type of crossbow, it can take 10-15sec to reload or even up to half a minute. Wasted time when a Samurai only takes a second or two to pull an arrow from his quiver and notch it.

The Spartans are actually at a disadvantage since their primary form of attack and defense revolves around their Phalanx maneuver. Other tactics were not as effective so they weren't focused upon. However, Samurai and Knights have both had to fight in open fields and build tactics to help them in various terrain. Samurai and Immortals may have the best chance here for better range and both have operated upon more island countries and areas than the other two.

The Persian Immortals weren't unskilled. However they relied heavily upon superior numbers to overwhelm and discourage their enemies. This tactic will not work because they have a limited number and no reinforcements. Which means arrows and high ground would be the first move for them, the same as the samurai.

And I'm not sure why Samurai were limited to only a few weapons when there are several others they were well known to use. Like the nodachi, naginata, and other tools. Plus in various tests, the katana always came out to be a superior weapon next to the European longsword.

#43 Edited by BrokenSpear (189 posts) - - Show Bio

@qpzmg said:

Round 1

Persian Immortals: sword, spear, bow and arrow, shield.

Spartans: spear, sword shield.

Samurai: sword, bow and arrow, dagger.

Knights: shield, sword, spear, cross bow.

Takes place in on an island.

No prep no prior knowledge all have full armours.

Round 2

No armour or weapons purely hand to hand.

takes place in a desert island.

Provide reason.

Rd 1

I would have to give to the spartans, they have the best combination of mobility and protection. they have the second best defense against arrows in this bunch but their shields do cover a large area and can be used offensively to a devastating effect; couple that with their offensive capabilities and their combat formations and you have an attack force that'll give any melee infantry nightmares.

I wanted to give it to the samurai but their lack of shields is a deal breaker for me and the only reason i don't see knight as that big a threat is because they move too slow and i don't think they would know how to properly utilize their strengths against a phalanx formation. the immortals are almost a non-factor due to their squishyness

The persians fall first and the samurai manage to get enough knights down for the spartans to take the win.

Rd 2

Spartans, hands down. they practiced a form of pankration with as much zeal as anything else and it was ufcking dirty, the samurai were skilled in hand to hand as well but the spartans were skilled and brutal.

#44 Posted by GhostRavage (9418 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights stomp... They are heavily armored.

#45 Posted by JediXMan (31268 posts) - - Show Bio

Knights.

Moderator
#46 Posted by FANNYBUSTER (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this Immortals and Spartans from the the graphic novel 300 movie? If yes, then they stop hard, but Spartans win. If not, then Samurais win.

#47 Posted by mikesterman (930 posts) - - Show Bio

@anywhichwaybutup: round 2 i would go to spartans, screw martial arts, they will probably rip the flesh off samurai with their teeth... oh and they know greco wrestling, martial arts is good but mma wrestlers have proved to be superior to mma fighters who dont work on their wrestling at all. i give it to spartans

#48 Posted by adhd_assassin (532 posts) - - Show Bio

@brokenspear: its funny you say that. Its always been that way, most asian martial arts being flashy while european and african are more efficient.

#49 Posted by Lazenblaze (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: you cleary have no idea about combat. I already stated the only way is for the other 3 was to team up.also stated the knights armour has gaps perfect for spear or sword thrust. and yes its idoitic to think a spartan couldnt figure out that a crossbow is just a smallbow siting sideways on a stock. which still cant get through the spartan sheild.

#50 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8851 posts) - - Show Bio

@lazenblaze:

Yeah, I know nothing of combat. I've only been deployed twice what would I know, right? It's clear YOU know nothing of combat. You watch the military channel or 300 or Deadliest Warrior and suddenly you're the man when it comes to military tactics. You resort to childish name calling and assumptions about the people you debate with because your argument holds no ground. Just because "you stated the only way to win was for everyone to gang up on the Spartans" does not make it true. You backed up your argument with nothing but "phalanx". Clearly, you aren't worth the time. It's been fun, but I'm done with you.