#1 Edited by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

I keep hearing about it yet when they give examples of them they are the dumbest things I have ever heard of.

#2 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

I keep hearing about it yet when they give examples of them they are the dumbest things I have ever heard of.

Im assuming that TDKR is The Dark Knight Rises and not The Dark Knight Returns.

in that case some of the plotholes of the movie were like how Bane just lack complete motivation after is reveal that Talia was behind everything, also how is that the worlds most dangerous prison had no guards on it or outside of it

#3 Posted by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: Yeah the dark knight rises. I didn't think Bane lacked motivation I thought Talia was the leader and he was the second in command. Whats the worlds dangerous prison?

#4 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane just wasnt as motivated as he should to do the things he did

even Talia's motivation is not very good.

the prison which both Talia and Batman escape from has no guards outside of it, thats kind of a major design flaw

#5 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

Worst revenge plot in history. Instead of just using the money the league has to buy some nukes, she does this silly complicated plan of turning a reactor into a nuke, killing the scientist who can disarm it, cuddling up to wayne and sleeping with him to get control.....for what? Why not just buy some nukes from Russia?

#6 Posted by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: If thats true thats not a plot hole thats just not as good as acting.

#7 Edited by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: Thats not a plot hole either, thats a movie. I think they wanted to recreate Gotham right? Thats why they used the CLEAN energy nuclear reactor so there is no radiation. Plus I doubt you can just buy a nuke.

#8 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

All you need is here:

Link

#9 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@muyjingo: Thats not a plot hole either, thats a movie. I think they wanted to recreate Gotham right? Thats why they used the CLEAN energy nuclear reactor so there is no radiation. Plus I doubt you can just buy a nuke.

You or I can't just buy a nuke, but Talia sure as hell could. And yes, it is certainly a plot hole. What makes you think the reactor after being turned into a nuke would not have fallout?

#10 Posted by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: Its clean energy not radioactive. Plus they wanted revenge on Batman they didn't just want to nuke him. It is probably way cheaper to invest into Bruce than to buy a nuke from Russia

#11 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@muyjingo: Its clean energy not radioactive. Plus they wanted revenge on Batman they didn't just want to nuke him. It is probably way cheaper to invest into Bruce than to buy a nuke from Russia

It's clean energy as a reactor, not when it's converted to a nuke. And no, it wouldn't be cheaper, and it's a huge waste of time. As much as you like the movie it's silly to say it has no flaws or plot holes.

#12 Posted by LyraFay (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparently a nuclear reactor can't become a nuclear bomb, yes I read it somewhere.

#13 Edited by Charlemagne (6969 posts) - - Show Bio

Not so much a plot hole more CIS (character induced stupidity) but Talia's mother being killed because the doctor forgot to lock the cell. What woman in a situation like wouldnt constantly be checking that lock everytime the doctor left just to be safe? "Oh hum he'll lock it I'm sure no reason to double check or anything."

#14 Edited by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: I never said there wasn't plot holes but yours isn't one its just character induced stupidity. A plot hole is a gap in the story that is against the information applied by the story. I don't remember the reactor turning into a nuke. I thought it became unstable and was going to explode.

#15 Edited by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@muyjingo: I never said there wasn't plot holes but yours isn't one its just character induced stupidity. A plot hole is a gap in the story that is against the information applied by the story. I don't remember the reactor turning into a nuke. I thought it became unstable and was going to explode.

I think you're splitting hairs. When the story in the movie largely revolves, at least in significant part about the actions of characters, and those actions don't make sense, then I call that a plot hole.

#17 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4806 posts) - - Show Bio

I just want to know How did Bats come back to Gotham?

I mean no one else could get into Gotham.

He was broke$ (pun intended), malnourished, needed a robotic like leg to walk, had all his gadgets taken away, he had no idea where exactly he was at, but then again

He's Batman

( + )

#18 Edited by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: No you see a plot hole is like Bane stealing Batmans car and he is driving it 5 minutes later without explanation. CIS is sending all the police in a tunnel.

#19 Posted by lilben42 (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: Thats all the explanation you need. He probably has some connections.

#20 Edited by germandinner (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

Worst revenge plot in history. Instead of just using the money the league has to buy some nukes, she does this silly complicated plan of turning a reactor into a nuke, killing the scientist who can disarm it, cuddling up to wayne and sleeping with him to get control.....for what? Why not just buy some nukes from Russia?

Because it's clearly been established just buying a nuke from Russia is not really an option. Ra's badly wanted to destroy Gotham in Batman Begins; he could have done the same thing, buying a nuke from where ever, and I would argue that the League had even more funds while Ra's was in charge. But Ra's didn't buy a nuke. Instead, he used a relatively complicated plot to make Gotham destroy itself. Buying a nuke would have been a much more efficient method of accomplishing his goals, even if he wanted people to be terrified before they were killed, and yet he didn't buy a nuke. The Dark Knight Trilogy does not take place in the real world; if it did, Gotham wouldn't exist, among other things, such as the microwave emitter from Batman Begins. It takes place in a more grounded reality where there's some science fiction involved. Since there's precedent (since the first film) that in this grounded reality nukes, along with other easy methods of destroying an entire city, aren't easy to come by, there had to be a relatively difficult process of getting one, as shown in the film.

One could certainly argue then, why didn't they just say that? Why didn't they include a response to the question why didn't Talia buy a nuke from Russia? Because they can't account for every question about the film's continuity and context. It's implied that Talia and Bane go to the trouble of getting the nuke from Wayne because they had no other option. And given that there are two other films of context to back this implication up, I don't see the need for a direct explanation.

Also, in regards to the nuke fallout thing, since the bomb exploded over water, the fallout is far less dangerous and carries out over much longer distances than the fallout that would result from it exploding on land.

#21 Posted by BlackReaper (595 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

Worst revenge plot in history. Instead of just using the money the league has to buy some nukes, she does this silly complicated plan of turning a reactor into a nuke, killing the scientist who can disarm it, cuddling up to wayne and sleeping with him to get control.....for what? Why not just buy some nukes from Russia?

They wouldn't be able to sneak a nuclear bomb into the country. That's why they needed an alternative means.

@lilben42 said:

I keep hearing about it yet when they give examples of them they are the dumbest things I have ever heard of.

Im assuming that TDKR is The Dark Knight Rises and not The Dark Knight Returns.

in that case some of the plotholes of the movie were like how Bane just lack complete motivation after is reveal that Talia was behind everything, also how is that the worlds most dangerous prison had no guards on it or outside of it

He loved her. Ever heard the saying "love is blind"?

Pretty sure it was designed for people to escape. Or else there wouldn't be a rope, climbable wall, or a way out in general.

#22 Edited by weaponx (1566 posts) - - Show Bio

There is just a lot of stupid things, maybe not necessarily plot holes, besides the ones mentioned in the link above.

Where did the dirt bikes come from out of the stock exchange? Why didn't Fox just flood the chamber? Why the heck, do missels from the bat wing thing blow up the tumblers but do not kill or disable the dump-truck thing that Talia drives? Bane can punch through concrete and is supposedly a beast but there is no explanation of how he is so strong. Why didn't Bane etc just wait to blow up the city without telling everyone and causing anarchy for 5 months? How did Bruce climb the bridge and put the bat symbol with fuel without being seen by someone? That was cool, but still iffy. Why would you send 'every' cop into the sewers? And more.

#23 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@muyjingo: No you see a plot hole is like Bane stealing Batmans car and he is driving it 5 minutes later without explanation. CIS is sending all the police in a tunnel.

Splitting hairs. The police in the tunnel is a plot hole, because it was not adequately explained as part of the plot. I.e., it's a hole in the plot.

Because it's clearly been established just buying a nuke from Russia is not really an option.

Nonsense. Ra's had a more complicated revenge plot, in that he wanted to use fear toxin and make the people tear there city apart. I agree he should have just used a nuke, but I disagree the first movie sets a precedent that it isn't doable. It just makes him foolish.

I think you are underestimating how powerful and resourceful the league is. If they wanted to sneak a nuke in, they could. The rest of what you wrote isn't really relevant, except that due to the movies not being 100% realistic it would if anything be easier to show them acquiring a nuke.

If Bane can hijack a CIA plane in mid air to kidnap someone, you really think they couldn't get a nuke into the country? Give me a break.

#24 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that there were plot holes, but I didn't really care when I was watching the movie. It is kinda weird there weren't any guards in the prison, and I really didn't understand why they were locked in cells sometimes while other times they weren't.

#25 Edited by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman flew Bruce from "Unnamed Middle Eastern Country" to Gotham, and just dropped in by Selina Kyle (instead of by all of his hidden equipment). Then, Superman also flew back and grabbed Bruce with 4 seconds remaining before the bomb went off and dropped him and Selina in Italy, changed Bruce's Will, fixed the Bat signal, and left the GPS and Coordinates for Blake.

There, every huge plot hole is filled, and we're on our way to a Justice League movie.

#26 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: lol yeah that's all the backstory we need. Forget the Man of Steel movie, we already know Superman from TDKR.

#27 Edited by germandinner (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: "I agree he should have just used a nuke, but I disagree the first movie sets a precedent that it isn't doable. It just makes him foolish."

You agree that he should have just used a nuke, but it turned out he didn't use a nuke. So there are two major possibilities. Either he couldn't get a nuke, or like you said, he's foolish for not using one. Why can't it be the former possibility? Why does it have to be the latter possibility? You say the league is powerful and resourceful, and yet you won't give Ra's, its powerful and resourceful leader, the benefit of the doubt.

"The rest of what you wrote isn't really relevant, except that due to the movies not being 100% realistic it would if anything be easier to show them acquiring a nuke."

The rest of what I wrote was relevant, because it demonstrated how that we can't just base what we know about the real world, or the comic world really, and hope it reflects within the Trilogy's world. We simply do not have enough information about the Trilogy's world to say up front how easily a nuke can be obtained, like you're trying to assume. What we do have are two main movie villains unable to acquire a nuke with relative ease, and you assume that they're both stupid as opposed to accepting the possibility that acquiring a nuke in this world is rather difficult, even for the league. That's the implied point that you're missing. They can't get a nuke easily, otherwise they would have.

#28 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that there were plot holes, but I didn't really care when I was watching the movie. It is kinda weird there weren't any guards in the prison, and I really didn't understand why they were locked in cells sometimes while other times they weren't.

They didn't have guards only because it was impossible to get out of the prison.

And if there were guards Batman would have taken them down.

#29 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@germandinner:

You agree that he should have just used a nuke, but it turned out he didn't use a nuke. So there are two major possibilities. Either he couldn't get a nuke, or like you said, he's foolish for not using one. Why can't it be the former possibility? Why does it have to be the latter possibility? You say the league is powerful and resourceful, and yet you won't give Ra's, its powerful and resourceful leader, the benefit of the doubt.

Because Ra's doesn't matter. Ra's had a good excuse for not using a nuke, which was explained in the movie. Talia had no good reason.

The rest of what I wrote was relevant, because it demonstrated how that we can't just base what we know about the real world, or the comic world really, and hope it reflects within the Trilogy's world. We simply do not have enough information about the Trilogy's world to say up front how easily a nuke can be obtained, like you're trying to assume.

What you wrote was not relevant. You started droning on about how the movie world was like ours but different and just how it is different. It is different enough in a significant way that an organization as powerful as the league of shadows could not obtain a nuke. Again, look at what Bane was able to do. If you think he couldn't obtain a nuke, you are deluding yourself. Also, to say it was implied that they could not obtain a nuke is ridiculous. It was implied they never tried.

#30 Posted by sinestro_GL (3158 posts) - - Show Bio

1) Bruce Wayne gets information from his hallucination of Ra's Al Ghul

2) Magic knee brace

3) The method that was employed to 'heal' his broken back

4) The illegal transfer of Wayne's assets were somehow legitimate - met with apparently little objection from Bruce

5) After escaping the prison, a penny-less Bruce Wayne flies back to Gotham?

6) At the ending, no one in Italy/France or wherever it was, recognises the most famous recently-dead man at a café?

#31 Posted by RumbleMan_Exe (1543 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane's goons armed with AK's and automatic weapons, vs a group of cops without weapons who have been starved and kept inside the sewers.

They fight in melee >.>

only one tumbler was shot by bats, the two on the side didn't do sh!t

#32 Posted by consolemaster001 (5591 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

I keep hearing about it yet when they give examples of them they are the dumbest things I have ever heard of.

Im assuming that TDKR is The Dark Knight Rises and not The Dark Knight Returns.

in that case some of the plotholes of the movie were like how Bane just lack complete motivation after is reveal that Talia was behind everything, also how is that the worlds most dangerous prison had no guards on it or outside of it

#33 Edited by germandinner (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

@germandinner:

You agree that he should have just used a nuke, but it turned out he didn't use a nuke. So there are two major possibilities. Either he couldn't get a nuke, or like you said, he's foolish for not using one. Why can't it be the former possibility? Why does it have to be the latter possibility? You say the league is powerful and resourceful, and yet you won't give Ra's, its powerful and resourceful leader, the benefit of the doubt.

Because Ra's doesn't matter. Ra's had a good excuse for not using a nuke, which was explained in the movie. Talia had no good reason.

The rest of what I wrote was relevant, because it demonstrated how that we can't just base what we know about the real world, or the comic world really, and hope it reflects within the Trilogy's world. We simply do not have enough information about the Trilogy's world to say up front how easily a nuke can be obtained, like you're trying to assume.

What you wrote was not relevant. You started droning on about how the movie world was like ours but different and just how it is different. It is different enough in a significant way that an organization as powerful as the league of shadows could not obtain a nuke. Again, look at what Bane was able to do. If you think he couldn't obtain a nuke, you are deluding yourself. Also, to say it was implied that they could not obtain a nuke is ridiculous. It was implied they never tried.

I'm rather confused about your first point. What excuse did Ra's have not to use a nuke? Was it because he already had the evaporator? And where was it explained in the movie? I already said using a nuke would have been better than the evaporator to terrorize Gotham. And you agreed with me. And you also said the fact he didn't use a nuke makes him foolish. Now, it seems like anyways, you're saying he had an excuse to not use a nuke, which, wouldn't make him foolish for not using a nuke, because he had a good reason not to. So, I'm rather confused at what you're trying to say.

If you don't think what I wrote was relevant, then I'm sorry, but I don't know how to explain it again so you can understand why it is. Basically, you're assuming things about the Trilogy's world that aren't necessarily true. You assume Bane can get a nuke without going to the trouble he did in the movie, but there's no precedent to back this claim up. I've shown why you can't judge off what could happen in the real world, like buying from Russia or whatever, when providing precedent, because our world =/= the Trilogy's world. So, for the Trilogy's world, you haven't provided any precedent. What you have said is that Bane can do all of this awesome stuff like hijack a plane, so why wouldn't he be able to get a nuke? But the problem with that is getting a nuke easily and hijacking a plane and doing that other stuff are not mutually inclusive. Just because he can do one, doesn't mean he can do the other. As for me, I have provided precedent. Given that Ra's didn't use a nuke, and he had the same if not more resources, I have given precedent for why Bane and Talia wouldn't have been able to obtain a nuke easily either. You have not clearly shown any sort of precedent to contradict this claim. Instead, you have claimed that a majority of what I've been saying is irrelevant or ridiculous and have been calling me delusional. So, at this point, I'm rather frustrated, because clearly we're missing something the other person is saying here.

#34 Posted by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@germandinner: I'm not missing anything you're saying. Your saying that the trilogy worlds and our world is different and then claim to have shown precedent for your argument, in about 200 more words than is necessary. You haven't shown precedent, you've expanded on your assumptions. In great detail.

The world of the trilogies is a heightened version of our world. That's kind of the point, so we can still relate to it. It's not meant to be some completely alien universe. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that an organization that has existed for millennial, that has more wealth than they will need to accomplish any goal they may have, could not buy a nuke. You're really reaching if you believe that.

I'm not really interested in discussing this further. I think it's a waste of time...I don't mean that as any kind of insult. I just can't see how you can actually think obtaining a nuke would be harder than the other stuff the league has done. Maybe you're not familiar enough with the league?

Oh, as for Ra's not using a nuke? He was foolish for not using one, but he still had (in his mind) a good reason for not using one. Make sense?

#35 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by germandinner (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo:

Seeing how you aren't going to respond, which is fine, I'll keep this brief.

"You haven't shown precedent, you've expanded on your assumptions. In great detail."

The fact that you said this makes me wonder if you understood what I was saying. The only reason why I expanded what I was saying in the first place was to clarify points you didn't initially understand. One such example is you saying that the distinction I made between the real world and the Trilogy's world was completely irrelevant, even though your initial argument rested on the fact that, under realistic, real-world circumstances, the League it could easily just buy a nuke from Russia. It wasn't irrelevant at all, because it was attacking a huge part of your initial claim.

"I just can't see how you can actually think obtaining a nuke would be harder than the other stuff the league has done."

I think obtaining a nuke would be harder to do than the other stuff the league has done because the league went to the trouble of doing all of that stuff in the first place and pulled it off excellently, instead of simply buying a nuke. In other words, if a nuke could be easily bought, then they would have bought it. They're no idiots, since they were able to pull off the complicated plot anyways, only losing in the end because they were motivated by emotional reasons (revenge). Yet you claim that these otherwise rather calculating, determined people were too stupid to buy a nuke, which you're assuming is easily obtainable. And that's just it. It's an assumption that has no precedent.

#37 Edited by MuyJingo (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo:

Seeing how you aren't going to respond, which is fine, I'll keep this brief.

"You haven't shown precedent, you've expanded on your assumptions. In great detail."

The fact that you said this makes me wonder if you understood what I was saying. The only reason why I expanded what I was saying in the first place was to clarify points you didn't initially understand. One such example is you saying that the distinction I made between the real world and the Trilogy's world was completely irrelevant, even though your initial argument rested on the fact that if the League existed in the real world it could easily just buy a nuke from Russia. It wasn't irrelevant at all, because it was attacking a huge part of your initial claim.

It's not that your argument is hard to understand. It's that you're arguing your assumption/interpretation as objective fact/precedent. It's an interesting take, but it just doesn't hold up.

Given the two possibilities, that Talia was foolish and didn't try to get a nuke or that Talia was unable to get a nuke, the former makes far more sense to me. It's downright silly to assume the latter. There is no precedent involved, just assumptions on your side. I have a different set of assumptions that, based purely on what we have seen I think make more sense.

To each their own. I won't be discussing it further with you, as I don't think we will get anywhere, not when you take the attitude that if I disagree with you I mustn't be understanding you. If you can't understand that you are arguing your assumptions and not actual precedent, it's a fruitless discussion anyway.

Ciao