What are your thoughts on the bat-family members?

Current & upcoming.

And just the bat-family in general.

I honestly think that Scott Snyder is focusing too much on new characters, I mean yeah this world is called the new 52 but come on, we go Calvin ( Talon ) and no Azreal, they just replaced Azreal with a guy similar to him. ( bought trained by a secret organization, bought would kill if necessary )

And now we are getting Blue bird ( Harper ) and her brother ( it's so obvious he was the one in the cave ) before we even know what the f*ck is up with Cassandra Cain, heck even fan favorite Stephanie is getting introduced way after Harper becomes a hero.

They introduced batwing, who I have to admit is a cool character, especially the new one. But he is not even noticed outside of his own title. And instead of giving that guy a bigger push, DC decides to bring in 3 more teenagers into the mix.

We didn't even get to see Tim Drake aside from Teen Titans, and that book is really bad.

Well DC made Dick's life hell, Tim Drake had almost no interaction with Batman in New 52 and in TT I heard he's written very badly, Damian was being written perfectly but then they killed him, I don't know what's going with Barbara but I heard she gave up Batgirl mantle I think? Steph is coming back but from the looks of it she'll be just a pawn in a big game like she has been before. I'm not to interested in Bluebird or his brother.

Handled very poorly overall. Jason Todd should have been a different character than another Robin in short pants. Tim was handled well and Damian very well until his *2 year old spoiler* death but since then and the New 52 both characters have been shite on. Barbara being removed as Oracle and being subjected to Gail Simone's writing as well as Stephanie and Cassandra being left out are travasties and the forcing of Harper Row down our throats has been a disaster.

Now, that said, looks like Snyder and his crew are looking to right a bunch of those wrongs in Eternal. Harper as a her own new character and finally a female sidekick for Bruce? Win. The long awaited return of Stephanie? Win. The New 52 fleshing out of Tim? Win. The addition of Carrie Kelley to current Bat-mythos? Win. The eventual return of Damian? Win!

So the last few years of having an awesome story surrounding Bruce but the rest of the cast getting the shaft looks to be coming to an end. Hopefully.

I Wouldn't even associate Tim with batman in the new 52 if I didn't know about them before...do they even talk anymore?

I only read by trades, so I'm basically only up to volume 3 on everything. But so far I like Batgirl, Batwoman, and Red Hood. All of them have had decent stories. I like Gail Simones Babs quite a bit, she might have my favorite title, I'm just sick of it being constantly interrupted by tie-ins. Damian has been excellent...though him being killed was incredibly dumb. I don't know why they'd kill him off, and I didn't think his death scene was that amazing either, felt like it was rushed. I didn't bother to read Teen Titans, heard it was terrible, and my plate was pretty full. I would like to see Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown get some page time.

I'm not a big fan of Harper Row, or her brother really. But she also hasn't had a lot of issues with her in it, so who knows I may learn to like her.

@w0nd: Yeah they do. He was a pretty big player in Death of the Family, and he stopped Bruce from using Frankenstein to bring Damian back in Batman and Red Robin (he was just overshadowed by the New 52 introduction of Carrie Kelly in the same damn issue. Hell, he wasn't even on the cover...she was. *sigh*)

I love all of the bat-family. Dick and Tim specifically being two of my favorite characters (I have a lot of favorites). Not a huge fan of Batwing because I have VERY little experience with the character but I don't have any disregarding feelings for him. He's actually quite cool. Bluebird has potential to be cool as does her brother / whoever was in the batcave during Batman 28 (I think it was Carrie).

Well.... Red hood is now badass

@jaken7: I don't remember Tim being a big part of DotF, I felt like he was there just for the being a part of the family.

@rustyroy: As big as any of the other members. Did you read the Teen Titans/Red Hood tie in issues?

The new 52 just trashed so much about the characters and made Batman into a creeper that instead of meeting his allies by fate he goes out looking for them...any way

Dick Grayson - his title was a mess with K.H. trying to make Nightwings story connect organicaly to the Batman tie-ins just made him jump all over the place and so we got stupid stuff like "grey" son and Dick not being able to have a single arc where he isnt sleeping with some random chick, they made it so he never lead the teen titans and worst of all. the time frame of the new52 completely ruined Bruce and Dicks relationship and made Dick becoming Nightwingjust a thing that happened rather than something important

Jason Todd - made him becoming Robin a plan by the Joker which is moronic on 10 diffeant levels, kept the creepy Talia sub plot, gave him a stupid magicaly destiny with twin magic swords which makes me wonder why he even bothers with guns any more and finaly the made him a hero sorry but Dick was way more interesting when he was a villain and it gave more depth to Bruce and Jason's relationship plus it gave a great tale of a batman failure coming back to haunt him but now Jason dieing is basicaly meaningly and him being Robin for only a year dosnt help

Tim Drake - truth be told i think they messed him up long before the new52 by basicaly turning him into Nightwing but their are some issues that come up after words like now he is a perfectionist and totaly awsome at everything ever and him becoming a side kick is forced as hell really Tim is so dumb he steals money from the penguin and so his family has to go into witness protection yet Bruce brings him in.. what?

Kath Kane - i love that while in a drunken stupper she shall the batsignal as like a call to duty after meeting batman for the first time it gives her character a different feel and showed that how much she repected Batman and his mission but the new52 just made her pardon me but a little bitch who decided that just becuase batman didnt tell her every single thing about him within 5 seconds of meeting her he is a big old meanie and it her bat and her city now. Also i would like to point out they are family now which makes the kane's the worst people on the planet i mean what kind of family leaves an 8 year old all alone with his butler.

Barbara - I like Gail's run but i do miss her as Oricale

Azreal - hasnt been intraduced because DC dosnt want to give money to Joe Casada

Stephine Brown, Harper Row and her brother - as far as i can tell its just more of Snyder CHANGING BATMAN FOREVER nonsense

Batwing - dont know why they gaves us this generic nice guy when the perous Batwing was far more interesting

No, I haven't read the tie ins. But in the main Batman title he barely had anything to say. Dick and Damian at least had some moments.

@rustyroy: That's true. He didn't say much, but he was included in the panels when they were showing each member, and eventually was with the whole family when they confronted Bruce in the cave.

But, as much as Snyder would like to claim otherwise, that book had nothing to do with the Bat-family. Instead, it was an amazing story detailing the abstract relationship between Batman and The Joker.

The fallout had a lot more to do with the family though.

@jaken7: I didn't like the story much. But yeah it didn't have much to do with family, even the fallout didn't have much impact IMO.

@rustyroy: Well the family is officially broken up, and you can trace that back to DotF being the straw that broke the camels back.

...Poor Nightwing and Batgirl got the worst of it.

@lordofthenorth: That's strange. I disagree with just about everything you wrote.

@lordofthenorth: Azrael was in batman inc. #10

Snyder has been doing great writing batman but he has made some mistakes. The first one was completely screwing up Mr Freeze's origin which changed his character and how people will think of him now. Took all of the tradegy away from his character and unless it gets retconned it has ruined him forever. Secondly he seems to only like dick Grayson. I can understand not using Jason todd since he also screwed up Jason's relationship with batman but he rarely uses Tim at all too.

I just want/ hope the weekly title eternal helps with restoring Tim in the new 52 which has really ruined the character, in the teen titans you really don't get the feeling he is close to Bruce or even dick and they had the closet relationship pre 52 , lodbel even went as far as saying in the comic that Jason was the closet thing Tim had to a brother! Jason hated and tried to kill Tim multiple times pre 52 and now they are the closets! Wow thanks lodbel

@jayc1324: yes but it wasnt Jean Paul Valley

@lordofthenorth: true. But I think valley will be introduced eventually.

I'll do the first three robins for now.

Dick Grayson - It seems like what DC is doing with Dick Grayson is a lot like what Frank Miller did with Daredevil in Born Again. That is, his story are a tale of being beaten down continuously to the point where he is at rock bottom and then he rises up and is stronger than before. He's clearly at rock bottom now, broke, isolated, identity revealed and no pulse (can't get much more bottom than that), he better start getting built back up. Overall the handling has been aiiiight, the biggest problem being that his stories are frequently hijacked by the tie-ins that has made it harder for Kyle Higgins to write a great run because whenever it seems as though Dick Grayson is growing as a character and his story has momentum BAM TIE-IN, ALL THAT STUFF BEFORE IS IRRELEVANT!!! On the flip side though, when it is focused on Grayson's story alone and not the tie-ins, I think that he has been handled very well, I would go as far as to say Kyle Higgins was the best Nightwing writer we've seen in a long time. Some of my favorite panels are when Dick Grayson is questioning somebody and you can see him picking up clues from their facial expressions to see whether or not that person is lying...sort of like a detective. The other problem is that they've completely taken away his connections from other characters, most damaging of all, his relationship with the Titans, it frustrated me when the Crime Syndicate said that the reason for taking Grayson was because he was so well connected, but I'm like really, who besides the batfamily has he talked to on a consistent basis? Oh and the whole logic behind his color change to red completely undermines the reason for Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing.

Jason Todd - @lordofthenorth basically hits the nail right on the head so I don't want to repeat it all. I think that his characterization isn't awful per-say but I feel as though the writers have been making decisions regarding Jason based on what they think the fans want rather than what would make his character better in the long run. In my eyes, Jason Todd has potential to be a great DC character but it has been wasted with RHATO.

Tim Drake - He is quite possibly the biggest disappointment of the entire New 52. They tried to make him edgier and it just failed so hard. He behaves like Damian Wayne did when he was first introduced (or at least he thinks like Damian Wayne did) and then for fun they decided, just like Dick Grayson was the most-romantically-sought-after Titan back in the day, the writers decided to do that with Tim Drake, but because Tim Drake is kind of a jerk, it just makes you angry reading it. I would go as far as to say that his characterization is a lot like Cyclops and not in a good way. Hopefully his character gets a re-do. Also the whole origin as to how he gets brought into the batfamily is insulting, it's hard to root for a character who puts his family in danger for personal gain.

Nightwing - Cool, I guess. I always love when he has to take over as Batman, that's the whole purpose of him existing.

Jason Todd - Awesome when he's an anti-hero. Not sure if I like him being a full hero.

Tim - He was alright in Identity Crisis. These days he seems pointless. I always thought the Robin mantle was so Bruce could find a successor, how many kids does he need to put in danger?

All Batgirls - I've never read anything of theirs, so I can't pass judgement.

Damian - Whoever thought killing him would be a good thing, was an idiot. Always wished he been stronger morally, which would've let to some nice proud father moments.

Carrie Kelly - I don't like her inclusion in this continuity at all. She's from DKR, that's where she should stay. Nothing particularly interesting about her, even in that book.

I love the Bat-family, and wouldn't want a DCU without them. I'm not big on sad and angry loner-Batman.

I think every member of the family was set back a bit when the New 52 occurred, but many of them are not beyond repair. The biggest problem amongst the members for me is Tim Drake, which can be okay, so long as we ignore Lobdell's writing completely. I actually enjoy the direction Jason Todd has taken, though, and want him to pretty much stay where he's at. I also want Damian alive again, and I think that Tomasi just might deliver on that.

I can't wait to see everyone in action in Batman: Eternal, the closeness of all of the characters felt stronger than ever before in the New 52 with that Batman #28 sneak peek.

I don't care for any of them except Nightwing, Redhood and Barbara.