#1 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

If bruce's mother's maiden name was kane dose that mean bruce and kate kane (batwoman) are related in some way?

Thanks.

#2 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27716 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@crimsonlord53: Maybe distantly, but I don't think they are aware of any relation.

#4 Edited by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@crimsonlord53: It is unknown the exact connection in terms of the exact biological lineage between the two, but the connection is formed in the following way...

Bruce Wayne (Batman I) is Martha Kane's son.

Martha Kane is Nathan Kane's sister.

Nathan Kane is Katherine Webb-Kane's (Batwoman I) husband.

Katherine Webb-Kane (Batwoman I) is Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane's (Bat-Girl / Flamebird / Hawkfire) aunt.

Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane (Bat-Girl / Flamebird / Hawkfire) is Katherine Kane's (Batwoman II) cousin.

It is possible that in the new52 "Katherine Webb-Kane" and Nathan Kane have been transformed into Catherine Kane and Jacob Kane as the circumstances surrounding the two are similar and it would fit Batwoman I's relationship with Bette. We also no that there is an "unknown" Kane out there who is Bette's mother/father... I'd say they are all very closely related, as in 1st cousins, or their lineage split goes back no more than 1 or 2 before Roderick Kane.

#5 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken said:

@crimsonlord53: It is unknown the exact connection in terms of the exact biological lineage between the two, but the connection is formed in the following way...

Bruce Wayne (Batman I) is Martha Kane's son.

Martha Kane is Nathan Kane's sister.

Nathan Kane is Katherine Webb-Kane's (Batwoman I) husband.

Katherine Webb-Kane (Batwoman I) is Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane's (Bat-Girl / Flamebird / Hawkfire) aunt.

Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane (Bat-Girl / Flamebird / Hawkfire) is Katherine Kane's (Batwoman II) cousin.

It is possible that in the new52 "Katherine Webb-Kane" and Nathan Kane have been transformed into Catherine Kane and Jacob Kane as the circumstances surrounding the two are similar and it would fit Batwoman I's relationship with Bette. We also no that there is an "unknown" Kane out there who is Bette's mother/father... I'd say they are all very closely related, as in 1st cousins, or their lineage split goes back no more than 1 or 2 before Roderick Kane.

Is there any evidence of this still being canon?

Jacob and Catherine were around before the New 52 though.

#6 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Nope. There is no direct evidence as far as I know. Though we may soon get some information on that with the reintroduction of Kathy Webb-Kane. I personally pretty much dismiss Batman Inc. as only partially canon at this point, but there is an image of Batwoman I which indicates that that is still part of canon and thus so would Bat-Girl... although they also have Robin in his original costume (that didn't exist in canon) and Scarlet (who no longer exists in canon) so take that as you will...

As far as Jacob and Catherine being created before the New52... We can explain away the C/K difference as them trying to hide it or a typo and we can explain Jacob away by way of them possibly not checking their facts, considering that this is all pretty obscure facts to begin with. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility though... It's likely not the case.

#7 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken: Kates stepmother Catherine is supposed to be spelt with a 'C', so it can't be a typo. I'm not sure what you mean about Jacob.

This is all a little confusing. Hopefully this will be explained in better detail soon. I really hope Kate and Bruce don't end up being written as closely related.

Is Nathan Kane definitely Marthas' brother? It's just that her page doesn't mention any siblings, and Nathan doesn't have a page at all, so I can't find much information.

#8 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Yes. Nathan is Martha's brother. It is mentioned somewhere but I don't remember where.

Yes Kate's step-mother's name is spelt with a C, but it is possible they just decided to switch it to hide that they are the same character or something.

What I mean about Jacob and Nathan is that Nathan's existence is trivia and likely not well known so it's possible they only knew of Kathy and so when they were doing this just gave him a new name or something.

#9 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken: Maybe someone else will know, and may post it in this thread.

I suppose it could be. That would be a weird twist though.

Do you mean Jacob could be Marthas' brother then?

#10 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Yes Jacob could be Martha's brother. It's a possibility, but we don't know.

#11 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken: Hmm. That would have to mean that there's another sibling along with Martha and Jacob/Nathan then. And they'd be alive if it's a female sibling.

#12 Edited by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Well if they're first cousins...

As I explained in a different thread It is possible that they are removed by several generations, but due to age and how we refer to people that they just call each other Aunt/cousin/etc

As to them being siblings... There are 3 to 5 Kane siblings (4 aunts/uncles of Bruce Wayne) Martha, Nathan, Philip, Jacob, and an Unknown one... I find it interesting that there are so many Elizabeths and Katherines in the Kane family... it really makes Martha's name stand out if there wasn't an Elizabeth or Katherine that was a daughter of Roderick...

#13 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken:

Kates stepmother Catherine is supposed to be spelt with a 'C', so it can't be a typo. I'm not sure what you mean about Jacob.

This is all a little confusing. Hopefully this will be explained in better detail soon. I really hope Kate and Bruce don't end up being written as closely related.

Is Nathan Kane definitely Marthas' brother? It's just that her page doesn't mention any siblings, and Nathan doesn't have a page at all, so I can't find much information.

Yes Nathan is her brother,Batman Inc v1#4,read that issue,it will answer a lot of your questions.

#14 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Well it indicates that Nathan was Marthas brother. I can't see any other questions it answers though.

#15 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Well it indicates that Nathan was Marthas brother. I can't see any other questions it answers though.

I assumed you were asking about potential connections between the 2 Batwomen? the issue at the very least makes that clear.

#16 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (5558 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

@entropy_aegis: Well it indicates that Nathan was Marthas brother. I can't see any other questions it answers though.

I assumed you were asking about potential connections between the 2 Batwomen? the issue at the very least makes that clear.

From this issue, I pick up that there probably isn't a family connection between the two. Is this what you meant?

#17 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

If we are excepting Batman, Inc. Vol 1 as canon which accepts that entire span of time as canon then we have to take it that Bette Kane is Kathy Kane's niece and as such Kate Kane would also be Kathy Kane's niece. This origin also would seem to mean that the other Kane siblings were not wealthy which fits with what we know with Philip, Jacob, and Bette's parents (she describes Kathy as wealthy which indicates that Bette isn't and thus neither is her parents). Martha escapes being not wealthy only due to marrying Thomas Wayne.

Of course the time span doesn't work as it requires them to be around for a year, but Dick and Barbara were only around for a year as Robin and Batgirl and Dick didn't spend much time as Robin from what we know so... yeah problems all over that.