Thoughts on Batman: Bad Blood

What did you guys think of the animated feature?

Edit: I thought the actual movie wasn't out till February. My fault for using Wikipedia, I guess...

Based on the preview? Looks ok, I guess.

The lack of Barbra Gordon, Tim Drake and Jason Todd in this movie bothers me. Also, Jason Todd better not be that beefed up villain who appears towards the end of the video....

I am hyped.

Heh I just came to make a thread about it now and saw this.

The Good:

Damian nerfed

Batman badass

Dick was finally done justice.

An unorthodox cast of villains.

Excellent combat sequences,just pure eye candy

Clever twists that I honestly was not expecting

A refreshing master plan from the villains,at least as far as the Al Ghuls are concerned.

The Mask of the Phantasm reference

The serviceable:

Batwing and Batwoman were pretty cool and fit the plot surprisingly well but ultimately there for exhibition.

The main plot,they combined a bunch of wonderful ideas but never really went too far and deep.

The final cameo.

The bad:

Bruces dream (huh?)

Heretic underutilized.

Overall the best movie in this universe by far. 8/10.

I also find it amusing that for all the crap it gets from comic fans The Dark Knight Rises has gone to become quite influential. Arrow S2 and this were clearly inspired by that film.

That beefed up villain is the Damian clone Heretic,it's not a spoiler as he's an existing character. The movie isn't about Jason and Tim so it shouldn't bother you. The writers have already clarified that they dont exist in this verse. As for Babs,keep watching,that's all I'll say.

I honestly don't get people who slam DKR, I mean for what exactly? That Bruce was perhaps more human than expected? Or that it didn't climb the mountain and was better than DK... which was always going to be near impossible.

Yeah it's one of the biggest CBM mysteries ever. It's not like MOS whose divisive nature is reflected everywhere,Rises is tied with Django Unchained as the highest rated movie of 2012 on imdb. It was listed as one of the top 10 movies of 2012 by the AFI. I honestly attribute it to the Avengers effect. Certain people just want all CBMs' to follow that formula and that fever was the highest back in 2012.

I'll give it a shot. I can't imagine it being as bad as JL War or Son of Batman.

Nothing can be as bad as SOB,that was a whole new low.

@entropy_aegis: I must have missed that Mask of the Phantasm reference! What was it? The ginger girl in his dream?

Just watched it and above all else this is the first good animated Batman film that we've had in years, leagues above Son of Batman and Batman vs Robin. Emotional content from the characters was good, action was good, villains were good, and the plot was good. Definitely a few moments that I didn't see coming.

Typical, but nice fanservice with views of Dick's classic Robin and Nightwing costumes side by side. Also like the Batman costume they chose for him to wear, with the classic yellow oval and blue cape to it. Good contrast to Bruce's current model and also works because that's typically the kind of costume Bruce has worn when he brought Dick into the fold.

"Just because I wear this doesn't mean i'm a part of your little cult"

Actually Batwoman that's pretty much exactly what it means lol its honestly annoying when newcomers try to wear the symbols of other heroes and then act as if it doesn't mean something, as if they couldn't have chosen any other outfit to wear. I'll call myself Batwoman, but that doesn't mean i'm affiliated with Batman lmfao trash.

That entrance Dick made into the Vault at Wayne Enterprises was epic. That's what I want to see from my Batman and there were good moments like that throughout.

It's also always nice to see Renee Montoya in other media and with Batwoman being in the film I think it was pretty much a given that she'd appear.

"You're not Batman anymore Dick! I call the shots around here."

All things considered I think that this is the time where a fight (Either verbal, physical, or some combination of both) should've broken out between Bruce and Dick, even if Bruce wasn't necessarily himself. Dick makes clear he has issues with Bruce at a few points during the film, but this never really receives any type of resolution. Beyond that however I think Dick was finally portrayed well in these films and it didn't require making Damian look bad to do it! Guess the writers finally learned a lesson.

Physically Kate looks just a shade less pale than a corpse. Is she supposed to look like that? I don't follow her in the comics so I genuinely have no idea.

Nice Titan's reference at the end with Dick heading to "the Tower".

I see that the writers also threw complaining fans a bone with that final cameo at the end lol hopefully that'll get some people to shut up now. Batwoman and Batwing were used for this film and a lot of people were angry, but with how large the Bat Family is at this point I think its understandable that not everyone's going to appear. Within the film itself they were decent. Not spectacular, but good enough to get people interested in them I think and so that their fans won't be upset. Nice in general to just get them some more exposure.

@nathaniel_christopher: Pretty much what I think too,though I find BvR to a huge improvement from SOB too. But yup this was pretty good,shame there will be those who'll hate it just because it doesn't feature their favourite characters.

@ultrastarkiller: Andrea's first victim Chucky Sol was the one getting tortured by Electrocutioner at the beginning of the film. Who was ginger anyway? maybe she'll show up in the next one. Bruce's previous dream did happen for real lol.

@nathaniel_christopher: as far as I have ever seen Kate she is always very pale in the comics. Especially in her costume since it's black.

@entropy_aegis: Oh I got you, that is a nice nod. And lol!

It really is though. Even worse is the fact that that complaint doesn't really make any sense. "Why isn't Tim Drake in Bad Blood?! He never appears anywhere except the comics!" Except in Batman the Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Young Justice, the Arkham games, and there's currently an entirely seperate line of films that he's shown up in twice now, as Red Robin no less. "Jason Todd always gets the short end of the stick!" Within the last few years alone he's been given his own comic book series, an entire film dedicated to him, and he was a central figure in the final Arkham game, and those then don't count the cameos in Teen Titans and Young Justice. "DC hates Cassandra and won't give her more exposure outside the comics!" True on the lack of exposure, but the same could then be said for Batwoman, Batwing, and various others depending on who you count as part of the family.

Like I understand where people are coming from to some extent and in general DC needs to do a better job using the wide range of characters they have in animated films and television shows (And really this goes beyond the Batman films. They need to start making some more solo films as well for people like Green Lantern or Shazam. Heck, with their successful live actions shows going right now i'm surprised that Green Arrow and Flash haven't got something in the works), but it is literally impossible to always have everyone present in these things. We need to be realistic about how much time they can give characters shine within the limit of an hour and a half or less, and remember that this is still, first and foremost, a Batman film series.

@kiba Thanks for the response. Guess that's just what the artists wanted to go with. I suppose its striking if nothing else especially with the red hair.

@nathaniel_christopher: I agree that many characters desserve much more exposure than they get, and its a good thing that Batwoman and Batwing are getting their chance to shine, but comparing Cass to Batwoman and Batwing, is like, lol. the later 2 are barely even part of the bat-family, there are villains more depply connected to Batman and the bat-family in general than these 2.

Although, i'm actually glad that Cass isn't in this, at one point i thought about it, but after watching Son Of Batman, i was like: "no, please no!"...the whole thing was just terrible, as far as i'm concerned i don't want Cass anywhere near the line of movies of this "animated continuity".

Batman vs Robin was better but not great, this one i haven't watched yet, so i can't really comment on it, the trailer looks good, though.

I wonder if we will have a Batgirl vs Robin, though? Barbara vs Damian, which could also serve as Barbara's introduction to the movie-animated DC.

True, yet in terms of other media Cassandra, up until now, was on the exact same level as Batwing and Batwoman, never having appeared in other forms of media. Hence me saying that they're all in the same boat and could all use more exposure.

But yeah Cassandra is more popular than both of those characters combined by far, but at the same time an introduction for her wouldn't have worked for this film.

It was very well done animated film with an interesting story and awesome action. This sort of things are going to make Jason and Tim feel very bad, they seem to be the only ones to be left out.

Spoilers..well, this is a DISCUSSION: It was terrible. I am not a fan of the new animated films at all but this was a HUGE disappointment. I ended up doing my hw while watching it that's how bad it was. Nah, I was doing AP Calc while watching. No I was fixing the economy while I was watching it. Nevermind. Anyways, I am still not a fan of the artstyle. The action/choreography was average. The hits were slow and boring. The plot was also boring and had Alice in Wonderland solution to the problems. They wasted Heretic and 'killed' him. Yawn. All these robins/sidekicks joining the fight was boring tbh, Luke/JR was the only one I liked. I don't even know why Kate is in this, I don't even like her. Dick kinda annoyed me even tho he's my fav Robin, jesus this was a bad movie. Kate was overly sexualized. You can smell the horniness of the writers in the bar scene. Also, she is attacked by her father when she is practically naked and we get a kind of panty shot. Yawn. You include the first gay relationship in this new universe and u make it an overly sexualized lesbian? Nightwing wasn't even Batman for most of the damn movie 3/10 if im being nice.

Wow I just watched it and it was awesome. Dick was finally done right and Robin wasn't wanked all over. Made me care about Kate and Luke. This was one of the better animated movies in a while.

Scenes were predictable but in a way that I wanted and it was great. Had a good time watching this.

I doubt Cass will appear on any media in the near future...there needs to be changes at DC for that to happen first, the people that hate her need to leave...besides, i don't even want her to appear on this line up of movies, anyway, and she's my fav, besides other things i don't trust these guys with Cass, no way.

I was only mentioning how comparing Cass to the other 2 doesn't really make much sense...and they getting to be on a movie only proves my point, DC is like-wise indifferent to them, whereas some characters won't be let appear.

Cass had luck to become famous right away, otherwise she probably would have been erased from DC by now, if we look at the trouble that they've had to turn a super-badass and interesting character that was selling (she still holds the record of the best selling femate bat solo-book ever 73 issues) into a cheap villain...and she's only back in the comics for one of 3 reasons or all 3: DC is a mess right now, and sales are worse than bad...Cass is a character that has a good chance of selling wherever they put her...the Bat-franshise has more power (in terms of decision) now than ever, with Mark Doyle, Gail Simone, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, etc...hopefully, there will be some changes in the DC Editorial in the future, i mean, when was the last time that DC out-sold Marvel? DC is cancelling titles faster than ever, they are even making mini-series because they are afraid they won't sell and they still cancel them before they reach their conclusions (see Megaman)...the guys at warner bros may not be very smart but at thi point they are probably smocking crack to not see the state that their company is in.

Much better than the last couple Batman Features, hopefully the JL ones can follow to suit.

It was...alright. One thing I can say for sure is that it is better than the previous two offerings.

All in all, I'd give it 7/10.

@orangebat: I believe Batroc was the Catwoman villain Hellhound. Must say I'm amused these guys turned out to be more dangerous than Deathstroke hahaha. I appreciate their unorthodox choices in villains even if they aren't too interesting.

Shout out to Travis Willingham,his adult Damian voice was badass and would've contrasted pretty well with Conroy.

So Jason/Tim is not even in this universe...??

By all accounts no.

I hate this universe!!!

Todd and Drake barely exist even in the comic universe.

They both are part of team books, from which Jason is basically the main hero while Drake is the leader of his team...They might not be as relevant as they used to be(Neither is Dick any more relevant, I mean, everyone thinks he is dead yet I don;t see anyone caring about it) due to Damian, they still are the best,,,

Grayson's book enjoys high critical acclaim and he's the face of DC's spy characters. Todd and Drake have next to no direction,the books are written by a controversial author(I dont hate Lobdell but you cant deny his lousy rep). They are both being published because DC can still get some money from them but for the time being they dont really care about either of them. A ruined Titans franchise is what Tim is the face of and Todd is the face of...whatever you call R/A.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Damian just boots Tim from the Titans as well,there's a high probability of that happening. Jason is still clinging on to that UTRH fame,people may argue that he's developed more but his appeal to many if not most comes from that story. Nothing that has been done after has been worth of any attention,except maybe AK but thats just another interpretation of UTRH.

Grayson's book enjoys acclaim but what I am saying is that other bat-characters don't even care now that he is dead...

DC hopefully has big plans for Tim as shown in Future's End (He is supposed to have a big falling out with Bruce, give up being a hero and hopefully get a solo book for a road to redemption)

Jason is according to me one of the most bad-ass heroes in batman mythos as he is the only Bat Character that can officially kill and has permission to kill from Batman(Not a permission exactly, but Batman doesn't stop him and allows him to kill)...The problem is that they want to focus on Damian for now....They both will get their moments to shine...

You mean this?

7/10

Jason Todd, best known for dying. Badass.

Batman "allows" him to kill because unlike Huntress in her heyday, Batman writers don't want to use Red Hood.

Looked terrible.

Great fight scenes though.

Maybe it's because he's NOT dead and they know it,seriously the Grayson writers themselves downplayed the death angle and got rid of it altogether months ago. Starfire on the other hand has completely ignored Red Hood and that's a book she spent 4 years on. Grayson is the lead figure of DC entire spy franchise,doesn't get bigger than that.

Futures End has been swept under the rug.It's just another possible future and after the pitiful response it and the current Beyond book has gotten it wont be revisited again.

That doesn't make him bad ass,it only makes him a gary stu. Bane ended all crime back in Arkham War,why doesn't Batman give him his blessing? or JPV whose tenure radically increased the fear factor of Batman? it's just another illogical piece of non sense. They want Jason Todd to be a killer and they want him to be there for Bat family group shots. They have no story or direction in mind for him. The only writer who did was blasted by Todd fans which led DC to decide he was better off being handled by Lobdell.

I haven't read anything from the new DC You yet as I have important exams coming up, so from what I have read is that everyone thought Grayson was dead but no one cared for him that much like how Damian being dead had an impact

Future's End might have been swept under the rug but it did show that DC had plans for Tim.....Tim is the best Robin to me by far due to his skills(Which have been heavily downplayed in New 52)

Jason is supposed to be handled in the way Lobdell handles him...The stories aren't that great but the characterisation is spot on...

@entropy_aegis Jean Paul is also noted, during Knightfall, to have reduced the crime rates in Gotham by a fairly large amount. Don't have my copies on me to check, but I want to say it was by like 39%. Gordon notes it during a conversation he's having with the Mayor about the new Batman's methods.

All that happened for Tim Drake in Future's End is that an alternate future version got sent even further into the future of the Batman Beyond franchise, where he then led to sales tanking, ruining one franchise, while his present day counterpart continues to not be of any real relevance to the Bat Family.

Yup JPV and Bane got actual results but Bruce refused to tolerate them but Jason gets a pass cause? funny thing is they didn't even kill people willy and nilly nor did they use guns. Bruce giving Jason permission=fan fiction writing.

Tim was the best Robin to many fans due to his awesome skills...But Damian has basically the same skills so he isn't relevant anymore...Did you watch the trailer of Justice League VS Teen Titans, Damian can defeat Superman in it so he is just too overpowered....Both literally have the same skills

All the canon Robins literally have the same skills and always have, with the skilsl then being just an offshoot of Batman's and with different Robins excelling at different particular skills over the others. This is literally nothing new and is exactly how it's been from the start.

They have different styles, looks, intelligence,etc....They are not the same, you might think they are but they are very different...

Um, I didn't say they were the same. Styles, looks, and intelligence are not unique qualities. EVERY person has those. Looks for one thing isn't a skill at all and is therefore irrlevant. Having a different style or level of intelligence then doesn't change the fact that they are all intelligent and have mastered the martial arts. Therefore, they all have intelligence and martial arts ability, ergo the same skills, so your complaint about Damian in the upcoming film being exactly the same as Tim because he has the same skills as Tim makes no sense, when they've always had the same basic skills, just to different extents. And this is because all Robins do the same basic thing. There's not really anything that Dick can do that Tim couldn't and the same goes for Jason and Damian. They're seperated by minor differences like one simply being better trained or Dick being able to do a particular acrobatic manuever, or Tim being better at detective work. Doesn't change the fact that they're then all capable of twisting and turning through the air or solving a random case just fine.

Your complaint about Damian being overpowered doesn't even make sense lol you haven't seen the film and have no idea what Damian's plan to take down Superman is. All that's implied is that he has one, but he's overpowered? LOL ok.

From what I have read which was a long time ago was that Damian had superpowers so he is overpowered...

And they might be good at martial arts but there are different kinds of martial arts in the world....Dick has a more acrobatic martial arts experience...Tim has a more agile and secret(Hidden) kind, Jason has a more agressive type..While damian knows all of them and is younger than all of them...You do know that Genetically engineering won't even allow an 8/10 year old to do all that...He doesn't have any strength in his body...

@@abdullahzubair I don't know why you'd base your opinion on information that you yourself admit is from "a long time ago". Damian doesn't have superpowers and only did for a few issues after he was resurrected. In regards to the film i'm not sure why you'd bring that up at all when it's clear that he doesn't have powers if you've seen the previous 3 films.

Doesn't change the fact that they all have the same basic skills and can do the same basic things, which is what I said. So complaining about them being too similar in terms of ability again makes no sense. They've all been similar and are again just an offshot of Batman and what he does to begin with. The major differences between them all is in the way they approcah situations and their personalities. And if that's what you're attempting to argue for then i'm not sure why you ever tried to make the argument that Damian and Tim are exactly the same anyways and are now trying to argue that they're different.

Damian's 10/11 for one thing and two i'm not sure why you're trying to argue what a GENETICALLY ALTERED INDIVIDUAL IN A COMIC BOOK can or can't do. That's the definition of silly. Damian was trained from birth, unlike Dick, Jason, and Tim who've only been trained for a few years, so it makes perfect sense that he'd know various things that they don't, but they then also know things that he doesn't.

Well...A long time ago was when I read comics(I haven't read anything except Archie in a year!!!) SO according to me, he has superpowers as no one informed me that they were temporarily..

You can't train someone from birth..It is impossible even for comics...They just took the liberty of it being fictional to make him a super ninja...

And if you think they are all the same, then there is no difference between half of the comic book superheroes...There was always an argument on who was a better Robin: Dick or TIm...And then suddenly a kid comes out of no where and beats the crap out of everyone like they are nothing but some goons...Characterisation wise, Tim was a fun character before New 52 and was always the "Man with a Plan" but now his existence is barely shown in Batman comics...Damian has made quite a few appearances, so has Dick, but Tim and Jason have been sidelined....And enough about Tim, I would really really love to read some heart to heart moments between Jason and Bruce...That is what is missing, no one cares about them anymore is what really matter...And I know that this argument has been pretty off due to me not being into comics for a year, not to mention making stupid reasons...But Tim and Jason exist and need some focus..All I am saying...