#1 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Warning: this is a thread filled with bold statements.

I have been very curious what the source of Bat Frustration is. For those who don't know Batman is arguably the most popular superhero out there. And of course with anything popular, you have people that resent the character. But I have seen as his popularity grows, there are a group of people that are getting MORE and MORE frustrated. My question is, why?

It's the Fans!

Some people say its because of Batman's fans...I don't buy it. But let's explore. I am a hardcore Batman fan, and am guilty of thinking that Batman's super power is that he can beat everyone. This frustrates people to no degree. My issue with this is if this truly is the case then it is a very petty complaint. Yes Batman fans think beyond highly of their favorite character. But I also think that Superman fans, Green Lantern fans, etc think just as highly of their characters. So why fault just fans of one character. I also know that when I am watching, reading, or playing anything Batman, I am not thinking about the fans. I am enjoying what I am given. So those are clearly to independant things. Last but not least, some say that fans are the reason why BatGod exists. That writers like Grant Morrison and Bruce Timm believe in this concept, and make Batman "too cool." I think that is also ridiculous because last time I checked Snyder beats up Batman in every storyline he has written (just read his most recent issue), and Geoff Johns is clearly not particular towards him. So yes some people write up some characters, and dumb down others. But this is a universal effect. So I think that this theory, though may hold true for some...and really sad for those who are affected by it...can't be the greater force of Bat Frustration.

I Can't Run Away from the Bat!

The next theory is that people are getting frustrated at Batman being way to pervasive. I mean Batman has been constantly on air since 1966 (with a brief exception space between Super Friends and BTAS). Batman family also dominates the most DC monthly (and online) comics, and if we look at the upcoming villains month, Batman's bad guy's dominate even more than the monthly comics. And I think Batman is the only hero that is sticking around for forever evil. I can keep going but I think you get the point.

This theory holds way more ground. Batman isn't DC's only hero, and fans of all heroes exist and they want to see them more. I get that. Though these fans of other characters also have to realize that Batman is not fighting against these characters, Batman is a tool to promote them. If you ask who the most interesting character in Beware the Batman is, I am sure most would say Katana. She is a C list character that could have her popularity grow exponentially do to this show. Batman is a tool to grab people's attention, but many characters can be incorporated this way to create fans of others. Injustice is centered around Superman vs Batman at its very core (DC's two most popular characters). The Batman family is the most present. And lets be real Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and Joker are no match for Superman, Green Lantern, or Martian Manhunter. Even Nightwing would get owned by characters like the Flash. But this game has used Batmania to its advantage and had characters like Raven, and Killer Frost in there to promote other characters with smaller fan bases to shine as well. Even Brave and the Bold was all about Batman featuring other characters. No one ever asked what will Batman do next, its all about who will show up next. So it's frustrating that Batman is so present, but the fact that Batman is a tool to promote other characters should help alleviate the fact. And it is frustrating that you need Batman (or related characters) to boost popularity, but the goal is to make them popular enough that eventually one day they can stand alone without Batman.

Plus lets not overlook things like Man of Steel, and Arrow which use no Batman (though Arrow is totally stealing some Batman characters). So DC is trying but it also knows that Batman is a good resource. Plus let's be real, the only reason why Thor got so much attention was because people wanted to see a link to the Avengers, that movie was just as bad as the Green Lantern movie. But you don't see people faulting the Avengers, Iron Man, or Wolverine (well maybe Wolverine), for boosting popularity of other characters.

Maybe...Just Maybe

I can't disregard Batman's ever presence totally as I can with Bat Fan hate. In fact I think this is linked to what I am going to explore as a potential reason for why people dislike Batman so much. Maybe the reason why people dislike Batman sooo much is not only is he so popular, but everything (as of late) that he touches, is actually good. People like to see popular things fail, but Batman is not doing that...at all. The reason why I say that if many psychological studies (of Americans at least) have been done where people to make themselves feel better they like seeing other things fail. So if your favorite character is Superman, what makes you feel extra good is seeing Batman fail.

Quick: What's the best (according to sales and critical reviews) superhero game? What's the best (according to sales and critical reviews) superhero movie? What's the best (according to sales and critical reviews) superhero show? What's the best (according to sales and critical reviews) superhero comic? Would it be annoying if I just repeated Batman for all of them? Now why is that annoying?

My theory is that people get a kick for things they don't like to do poorly. They don't get that kick with Batman. So not only is Batman everywhere, but its always at such a high quality. Even with the new Beware the Batman. People legitimately got excited about how awful it will be. The show has only proven that it is a quality all ages show that can also handle mature topics, and compelling story lines. So Bat Frustration is growing even more. The funny part is, people aren't willing to admit this is the case even though this is a psychological phenomenon. Why? Because it seems almost malicious to admit something like that.

But here is a final little anecdote that I hope will illustrate my point. Green Lantern, Hal Jordan, has done some pretty amazing feats. I mean he has saved planets, stopped ring entities, even saved Oa from the Guardian's own pride. However one time at a comic shop, someone says to me how Hal was their favorite character. He didn't know me, and didn't know that I loved Batman. We were actually both looking at Green Lantern trades during this conversation. I then said, "Right on. So just out of curiosity, what's your favorite Hal Jordan moment." He then tells me his favorite moment was when Hal Jordan punches Batman. I literally had crickets going on in my head. So out of all the amazing things Hal Jordan can and has done, this is a moment of pride for this fan. I hope without using anymore words, how that is a solid illustration of people admitting that they are not frustrated by his fans, or his ever presence (as much) but its really as simple as they want Batman to actually fail.

Unfortunately, back to my Bat fanness, I don't anticipate that happening any time soon because its hard to make a good character bad. Even though we have on the rare occasion a dud like Joel Schumachers Bat Nipples, it somehow still has a cult following. And people are just getting frustrated on how good Batman is.

This is for all those Bat haters out there. Now tell me that didn't make you smile.

(And for all those Bat Fans out there, I hope you smile too knowing that our man, Bruce Wayne, can take, and dish out so much more.)

#2 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

Its not the fans its the fan boys. I'm possibly one of the biggest Hulk fans on this site but you will never hear me say he can beat everyone because he can't, just like Batman logically shouldn't be able to beat everyone regardless of prep time, for instance beings like Spectre who is literally the embodiment of the Wrath of God with no actual exploitable weaknesses, now a rational human being would understand the fact that this is a guy who is completely out of the league of any non powered human character but Bat fan boys will just post that one PIS scan taken out of context of Batman kicking the Spectre in the face. If you actually read the book its made pretty clear that the Spectre allowed Batman to hit him basically because he felt Batman needed to hit someone. Its actually a terrible Batman scene since Spectre allowed him to do something that looked cool out of pity.

#3 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: And how do you explain the panel where Batman kicks the breath out of the Hulk?!?! lol I am just messing with you, I totally see where you are coming from. Context means everything, and that could get annoying fast. I don't enjoy getting into vs conversations because personally I know I am biased, and its all speculation. Yes if Batman and Superman had a hand to hand combat, Batman would be dead in .000000000001 seconds. But Batman would never let that happen. And then you get this annoying back and forth. I will admit I think that for Batman, where there is a will there is a way. But even when people come to me (in real life, cause in forums I disregard it all as idle fun and chat) and say Iron Man is way better than Batman. It annoys me because they know it would illicit an emotional response. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying the Iron Man movies. And I hope Bat Fans also didn't stop you from enjoying the Batman movies.

#4 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine: I love Batman and nothing is going to change that I just don't enjoy having conversations with fan boys who talk down to people and pretend that their completely illogical thought process is just an obvious assumption and everyone who disagrees is just an idiot, for instance the Storm vs Galactus battle thread (Yes that bulls**t actually happened.) In that the Storm fan boys were freaking out on the people who had the completely sane and rational idea that the guy who eats planets and can destroy solar systems could beat a chick who controls weather.

#6 Edited by JetiiMitra (8479 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's more because he was getting close to Wonder Woman pre-52, but doesn't have a chance New 52-wise. That's gotta be frustrating for anybody, but especially Bruce.

#7 Edited by lifeofvibe (3469 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by JetiiMitra (8479 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: Not me. Clark/Diana all the way. Let the Bat be frustrated. Nyehehehehehe.

#9 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: I'm in the camp that believes Diana doesn't need Clark or Bruce.

#10 Posted by warlock360 (28050 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm in the Orion camp

#11 Posted by Wolverine08 (41021 posts) - - Show Bio

But really, it's quite obvious why Batman gets so many haters. He's popular. Whenever something becomes popular, whether it be a person, fictional character, etc. you get mindless sheep who can't form their own opinions, and jump onto the bandwagons saying "HE'S OVERRATED" "HE NEVER LOSES". It's happened to Superman, Batman, Wolverine, and it'll always happen to popular things. These bandwagoners think by resenting whatever is popular for stupid reasons, they became some type of sophisticated intellectual. Also, they know that they are a minority for hating on something popular, so they make up for their numbers disadvantage by being VERY loud so it looks like they are a majority. At end of the day, you just got to ignore them, because haters are just going to hate no matter what.

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#12 Edited by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: The problem here is that the over zealous Batman fan boys can't seem to understand that the hate is mostly for them and not for the actual character.

#13 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I wish that was the case, but people don't pose their hate that way. Complaints are always about Batman, and then about the fan base. When Beware the Batman was coming out, people weren't complaining about the fans being excited. In fact, the fans were actually worried this might not be the best outing for Bats (thats how you see who are true fans ;), I never worried once!). No people were complaining that its Batman, Batman, Batman.

But again those are both very common theories that I presented. I just presented a new, slightly more controversial one on top of that

#14 Posted by Wolverine08 (41021 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

I see what you mean Josh, but I still find Bat haters excuse that "I hate Batman because of his fanboys" to be one of the stupidest complaints out there. Why would you judge a character you know nothing about just because of annoying fanboys? I didn't like Hulk fanboys before I knew much about the Hulk, but I didn't let that influence my opinion on Hulk before I learned about him. I don't see why Bat haters who don't know much about Batman can't do the same.

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#15 Posted by wbr17 (324 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't have problem with batman because batman doesn't exist, he isn't real, only fiction i mean.

I only would like that DC used more other characters and not use batman in 8+ titles per month. But I understand that he sells a lot more other chars and that's business. I would like readers give chance to unpopular/new chars and not buy only battitles but no hate.

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#16 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine: My complaints go further than just Batman fan boys, its pretty much all the fan boys that can't just accept that not everyone is going to agree with them, to be fair this is also my problem with the right vs left wing political people and the crazy atheist vs religious zealot arguments.

@wolverine08: I agree, hating a character based on someone being obsessed is silly.

#17 Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine: I love Batman. I really do. I find his entire mythos to be one of the best in comics!!! However it's the constant pushing of him that makes me think "JUST HURRY UP AND BECOME OBSCURE!!!!"

I mean if DC put as much time and energy into their OTHER superheroes which they have HUNDREDS of and all can be very interesting, then they'd be outselling Marvel!!

Take Beware the Batman for instance. Beware the Batman is............ well it's OKAY, but really it's nothing compared to The Batman or Batman: The Brave and The Bold. I only list those as Beware the Batman doesn't even deserve to be compared to Batman TAS for obvious reasons.

But what really ticks me off is that It CLAIMS to be using villains that haven't been done before, and too be fair they are, but they're making ALL of them pale imitations of the better known villains!!!!! Anarky? Joker stand-in!!! Magpie? Crazy Catwoman!! Humpty Dumpty? I got a major Mad Hatter vibe with him!! And just this last episode had Metamorpo. Yes, the character who in his entire run in the comics was NEVER a villain and is simply here to be a Clayface stand in complete with tragic origin!!!

You see the problem? They have made SO MANY Batman related shows that they are unable to come up with new stuff for them so they have basically just done a palette swap when it comes to the villains, threw in a James Bond posing as Alfred, and added Katana for the soul reason of "Why the hell not?"

The problem is that DC refuses to take a break from Batman in outside media. I'm EXCITED for Arkham Origins!! I really am!!! However also hearing that they're making a sequel to Man of Steel into a Superman/Batman movie just irritates the living hell out of me!!!

Why you may ask would seeing the movie I've been wanting to see even more than Justice League actually being made bother me? Quite simple actually. IT'S TOO SOON!!!! Knowing DC Batman will upstage Superman IN HIS OWN SEQUEL!!!!! He will draw ALL the attention away from Superman and as they have Frank "Batman is a god" Miller for a consultant, my expectations for this movie have gone DRASTICALLY downhill.

Sorry, I just needed a little rant.

#18 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@batshrine: I love Batman and nothing is going to change that I just don't enjoy having conversations with fan boys who talk down to people and pretend that their completely illogical thought process is just an obvious assumption and everyone who disagrees is just an idiot, for instance the Storm vs Galactus battle thread (Yes that bulls**t actually happened.) In that the Storm fan boys were freaking out on the people who had the completely sane and rational idea that the guy who eats planets and can destroy solar systems could beat a chick who controls weather.

Storm stomps.....

#19 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2229 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@lifeofvibe: Not me. Clark/Diana all the way. Let the Bat be frustrated. Nyehehehehehe.

Hell no, Batman/Wonder Woman is better.