So I finally got around to reading Forever Evil

And the Geoff Jones embarassbatmanfest is the most retarded thing I think I've ever read. Let's count down a couple things:

(1) Oh look! Batman gets an awesome reveal with a Yellow Power Ring, something ANY other writer would capitalize on! Lol jk, he gets his ass smacked in two pages

(2) "You know, Batman's not so scary in the light. I mean, ever." ---> Can we give this line the worst dialouge ever award?

(3) "I'M BATMAN SO LISTEN UP, EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN ALL RIP MY HEAD OFF, I'M IN CHARGE. EVEN THOUGH I WOULD NEVER ACTUALLY DO THIS, BECAUSE I'M NOT RETARDED"

(4) Geoff Jones TOTALLY didn't cop out of thinking of counter plans for Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman's box was literally just empty, lol wtf?

(5) A two-bit villain that's a giant snake and is about as stealthy as Stephen Colbert in the ghetto managed to sneak up on Batman, resulting in Luthor saving Batman's life. Because Geoff Johns reasons. Surely this can't happen a second time, though!

(6) Deathstroke to the rescue, shoots Copperhead in the face! Because having Batman knock him out would have been too difficult.

(7) Bonus points for Lex's enourmous power suit gloves being able to pickpocket Bruce's super-secure suit.

(8) And who can forget when Lex literally bent Batman over and proceeded to sodomize him? Oh my mistake, that's next issue. GEOFF JOHNS

It's just... Ugh. Honestly, I really like the story. Except for the irrational Bat-Hate. I'm sure I missed some, feel free to post them.

this proves that he hates batman i just want new writer for justice league

@imthedamnbatman: Well I remember rolling my eyes at Lex's monologue as he picked Batman's pocket. "There's nothing better than a distracted Dark Knight."

Also, in the direct aftermath of Forever Evil (as seen in Justice League #30), Johns writes the cheesiest line for Bats: "He's an insect. But bats EAT insects" (yes he literally had Batman say that). He wrote that just so he could have one of his token favorite characters (Flash in this case) tell Batman off. "How long have you been waiting to say that? And do you have a little black book with badass Bat-comebacks in it? Never mind. I just checked."

Then, in that same issue, Flash and Cyborg are discussing whether they're going to stay at Lex's new Watchtower or not:

Flash - "But we're not going to stay here, are we?"

Cyborg - "Unless you want to go back to the Batcave."

Flash - "God, no."

You're a class act as always, Johns. Really mature and professional of you.

It's been made clear as to why Johns writes this way. His goal is to keep him from being 'Batgod'. Which is fine, since Bruce is human with no super powers. But he's going way too far and Batman comes across inept. Johns is overcompensating.

One of a few problems within Forever evil

..so you guys don't recommend it?!

No that is not what he wants. He just hates Batman.

I love you Geoff Johns. Kill the Batgod!!!

Yup he's doing a good job so far. lol

@saint_wildcard: Its not even killing batgod. Its just bad writing.

Batgod= Ready for everything and can never fail

John Batman= Fails a lot

Imagine a scale and Batgod weights 100 tons, you need a weight just as big to balance it out.

@saint_wildcard: Johns just seems like he hates batman

He hates Batgod (he pretty much implies his annoyance with Batgod on Fatman on Batman), not Batman. I agree with the sentiment. I love Superman but I like the more down to earth New 52 Superman, Im not fond of the preachy All Star/Pre 52 Superman. So as he said on Fatman on Batman, if you want Batgod there tons of titles with Batgod.

Lex and Deathstroke outclass batman any day of the week

@saint_wildcard: What Johns does isn't simply getting rid of batgod though. Scott Snyder doesn't write batgod. Batman gets his butt kicked all the time in Snyder's series. Same can be said for grant Morrison stuff. Johns on the other hand, writes batman as an immature, incompetent, impulsive, childish, fool.

Oh and Wraithtonite.

@saint_wildcard: That's just good prep. That is kinda batmans whole thing. Being a prep master.

Superman can see light travel and has sonar like hearing, that's not prep that's Lex Luthor level sh!+. Prep and plans are one thing but this is just flaunting Batgod's muscles in front of Clark.... IN A SUPERMAN SERIES!!! But fine, say what you want about the suit but the Wraithtonite is total BS. It took him a few days to figure it out? That's total Batgod and you know it.

@saint_wildcard: there are much worse cases of batgod than him just figuring something like his weakness out but ok I guess. Only because its in a superman series.

I don't get how people define Batgod. When Batman does something cool or figures something out it's Batgod. I don't get it how else would you show off a genius level prep master being a genius level prep master. Yet when Batman fails it's Batman "as he should be written". lol

Yeah but he loves,Jordangod,Sinestrogod,Luthorgod,Barrygod Johns has written Deathstroke owning Teen Titans as well,so might as well add Sladegod to that as well,Johns pathetic excuse is the same as given by Batman haters on these forums,"oh see we love Batman but hate Batgod". When Johns loves a character he goes out of his way to make them infallible and Godlike,Hal Jordan can just kill Krona cause GREATEST WILL POWAH EVAR,I'm sorry what sort of bull shit is that?it does not end there either Johns retcons his pets to being Godlike from the start. This Batgod argument might hold some weight if Johns was not known for writing the exact opposite of grounded,down to Earth,human,flawed characters. Every Johns pet has shown perfection,and Johns himself has made it clear that he has no interest in writing down to Earth characters,why do you think he called Kyle Rayner a Marvel character stuck in DC? this guy also gave us Superboy Prime,he is responsible for Tim Drake being a master strategist,tactician and inventor,even though he was none of that .It's just Batman whose Godhood Johns has a problem with.

New-52 Superman is very close to pushing the silver age levels and unlike pre-52 Superman he isn't someone I'd trust with all that power,current Superman is a jock very often,I guess that's why you prefer him.

Yeah and? he made a suit that can cloak him? is Tony Stark Iron God for making Hulk buster?it's clear that these Batgod haters are just clinging on a non argument,why dont you just spare us the trouble go ahead and say that Batman should be a real life human and anything more than that is Batgod.

The Wrathtonite was made by Superman,pay attention.

How often does Superman fail? Batman fails a lot of times but Johns' Batman fails every time, and his Batman doesn't even act like Batman.

Exactly, at this point we're down to two possibilities

Batman succeeds=Batgod

Batman fails= Human

As if there is no middle ground.

At pick pocketing,killing Copper head,and stopping hearts,Johns forgot Batman is capable of all 3.

Batman cannot afford to fail either,he HAS to be perfect,that's why when he fails(Jason,Bane,Damian,Talia,Brother Eye) the results are catastrophic,Batman struggling to even keep his head straight in a tight situation is the failure of the writer not the character.

Mostly characters that were never gods. He even said that he likes to work with under appreciated/underrated characters and show them at their best (Aquaman and the Green Lanterns). Batman... the dudes hood is so shiny you can see it from space. That thing don't need more shining. You're acting mad for him letting other people shine. Very greedy.

New-52 Superman is very close to pushing the silver age levels and unlike pre-52 Superman he isn't someone I'd trust with all that power,current Superman is a jock very often,I guess that's why you prefer him.

First of all dude, don't go assuming what I like. If you wanna know what I like, read Greg Pak's Zero Year and his first arc on Batman/Superman. I like that Superman is alone and trying to do the right thing but doesn't know how too. Cocky yes, but I like that he will grow into the symbol of hope in the future but that he isn't a boy scout from the get go. Also doesn't matter if it's Pre or New, Batman has always had a plan to take down Superman so obviously Superman is never trustworthy. I also like to add the multitude of Elseworlds where anytime he kills or Lois dies the dude goes nuts and they all were Pre 52 boy scout Superman's.

Yeah and? he made a suit that can cloak him? is Tony Stark Iron God for making Hulk buster?it's clear that these Batgod haters are just clinging on a non argument,why dont you just spare us the trouble go ahead and say that Batman should be a real life human and anything more than that is Batgod.

Yeah Im gonna go ahead and use the "That's a different character" defense. Tony makes suits (that's sort of his thing), Batman makes plans. Even in TDKR he didn't have some sense bending device. The suit was just super strong, heat vision deflectors and gadgets that messed up his senses. Also the irony being that the only person that has made a sense blocking device was a god. The suit was Lex Luthor level and even Lex Luthor hasn't made one. It be like Batman making a shrink device better than Ray Palmer. Also Batgod isn't in the comics (only sometimes), he's in the hearts and minds of the casual or hardcore Batfan. It's the image that people hold near and dear. Obviously Batman fails or else characters like the Joker wouldn't cause him problems. The ruining of Batgod isn't within the books but from the fans point of view. Batman can be a master strategist and kung fu expert, but when the fans say Batman can beat everyone cus of prep... there's something wrong in the water.

The Wrathtonite was made by Superman,pay attention.

.....I'll give you that one. But the series is so boring and delayed so much I've forgotten what happened in issue one (I can remember things I saw on cartoons a decade ago.... not a good sign,)

@saint_wildcard:

Batgod isn't in the comics (only sometimes), he's in the hearts and minds of the casual or hardcore Batfan. It's the image that people hold near and dear

Wrong. Batgod is mostly in the minds of people who don't read Batman comics and whatever Johns tries to do he can't change that, BvS is probably going to make Batman very powerful, and movies and animations are where most people get the idea from. And Johns writes Batman as someone who shouldn't be a hero at all, Snyder doesn't write Batgod, his Batman fails many times but he's Batman still feels like Batman, Johns' Batman is not Batman.

Kevin Smith has said many times he loves Batgod..... are you saying Kevin Smith doesn't read comics?

Johns tries to do he can't change that,

He'll die trying then. Viva la Johns

Johns' Batman is not Batman.

Are you Dan Didio or Jim Lee? Cus only they have a say in what is canon Batman.

This

@saint_wildcard:

Kevin Smith has said many times he loves Batgod..... are you saying Kevin Smith doesn't read comics?

I said mostly.

He'll die trying then. Viva la Johns

Good. Batgod is immortal unlike Johns.

Are you Dan Didio or Jim Lee? Cus only they have a say in what is canon Batman.

You know canon doesn't matter to most fans. That's why most people don't care about the hundreds of times Superman beat Batman in canon but almost everyone cares about TDKR which is a non canon book.

@imthedamnbatman:

You're preaching to the choir. I made the decision to not buy anything Johns writes. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Everyone loves Luthorgod.

I'm not mad at him making other characters,shine.Heck I'm not even mad at him for doing it at Batman's expense,what makes me mad is the craptastic excuse Johns and his lovers have given us," we hate Batgod" and yet have no problem with making Gods out of other individuals,that's hypocrisy and double standards at their finest. If he wants to write grounded characters then he should apply that formula completely,not selectively.

That's cause New-52 Superman hasn't had Elseworld stories.

That's your excuse? Tony makes suits? I guess you'd be okay with Tony making a suit that can take down Eternity,cause you know he makes suits,get real. It's also not Batman's fault that characters like Ted Kord and Atom are featless wonders.

Take it up with those fans,you wont find them here and those fans have nothing to do with it,they dont dictate what DC writes and this is about Johns writing not Batman fans,stick to the topic. Dont justify Johns BS by claiming Batman has overzealous fans,yes he does and the same would be/is true for any character on his level of popularity,it's not the writers job to concern himself with such petty and trivial matters.

@saint_wildcard: Who cares about Kevin Smith? he's written the worst Batman story ever,and another one that was almost as bad. He's a flop Batman writer.

I want to live in your world. A world in where no one cares what a celebrity thinks, Sounds like a nice place.

@entropy_aegis: Lex Luther shot batman before he can come up with a plan, and in the next issue we're not even sure the if Lex had a plan or he was simply going to kill him.

When Lex pickpocket batman we don't know when that happen.

I give you the copperhead thing, but it seems to me people underestimate Luther he is just as capable replicating anything batman does and more (besides martial arts)

@comicstooge: There no such thing as LutherGod.

Correct. There is only Luthor.

Lex should've explained it to him there and then,what was the point of all that drama? or stealing the ring for that matter?

johns just wants to glorify lexgod

This.

In that final issue of Nightwing, Batman kicked a motorcycle in half. I don't mind some counter-programming.

@holyserpent: Pickpocketing Batman though? Johns is so annoying

EVERYONE LIKED BUBBA-HOTEP

Wow. Batfans are up in flames....

It depends on your interpretation. The dialogue there makes it uncertain if Batman made it or If the fortress synthesized it.

I'm not up to date on all the details. so keep that in mind.

Do I think Batman should be pick pocketed and the such without being aware of it? Not so much. I also don't think he should be kicking motorcycles in half. Based on the arguments so far, I'm closer to @saint_wildcard's thinking then not. I like the character of Batman, but I'm not so big on him being able to take anything on. Sometimes being human means realizing there are things out there you don't defeat, you just deal with.

The BatGod thing often does feel like a fan logic thing. Ask a casual fan why Batman beats Superman or how he does some impossible stunt. The answer I generally get is "Because he's Batman!" It's often like that on here too. Go look at some of the more ridiculous Batwank threads on here. You'll see how some diehards believe Batman can take on Celestials.

Well.. Geoff Johns can write whatever he wants.. I don't take it seriously and find it silly.

People whom dislike Batman just like Johns downplaying him are trying to pass of John's Batman as being down to Earth, and I do get that there are some whom just are upset that Batman isn't portrayed as invincible at times, but John's Batman is just an insult to how comic book writers should be going about their business.

And Batgod honestly doesn't bloody exist. Just an unstoppable mythical force people whom don't like Batman created so they can vent about their dislike of him. Johns isn't getting rid of Batgod, he's just being petty and venting against Batman.

@black_arrow: Not really,Batman gets credit only for instilling the idea in Clark that weaknesses should be exploited. Supes pretty much did everything else.