Snyders batman

How exactly does he not "get" Batman? I've seen a few people say this, only to offer up vague examples pointing to very minor issues as to why that actually is the case.

Snyder "just re-does" most of the events that already happened? How so? He borrows ideas and concepts from other works, sure. I hate to break it to you: every writer does that. Morrison and every other writer out there does the same thing. This crazy notion that a writer has to have completely original and authentic ideas every time he or she writes a story is just plain silly... not to mention, it's pretty much impossible in this day and age.

How has Snyder not moved the story forward? Have you been reading anything that he has been doing in Batman, or have you simply been reading the negative critiques of fans on this website for your information?

I have been a Batman fan for over 15 years and i enjoy snyders run its not perfect but no writer is when it comes to Batman they all have a take on the character, I see this Batman as still young seeing he has only been operating for like 7 years, so i can see why he is less skilled then they morrison batman but its just MO.

He doesn't GET Batman because of 2 main reasons.

1) He doesn't write Bruce Wayne as one of the worlds leading intellects, the worlds greatest detective, etc. He writes him as brash, arrogant, not overly educated or smart yet more physically capable, approaching super/meta human levels. Batman was interesting because of his personality, not his physical feats.

When Has Snyder had him do something awe inspiring that was due to his personality or intellect?

2) There is no unique personality or voice to Snyder's Batman, as CitizenBane pointed out. What defines Snyder's batman...why couldn't it be any character having those adventures?

And yes, the stories are derivative. Court of owls is strongly reminiscent of The Black Glove, except not as well done. Zero year is derivative of Year One. Not in terms of story exactly, but in principle. That can be forgiven however, given the justification that New52 somewhat requires a lot of retcons.

I don't think Morrison's story on Batman was derivative of any Batman story that had come before, not overly so. It was indeed, something fresh, new and exciting.

Still, to throw your question back at you, how has he moved the story forward?

Nothing happened with the court. He hasn't followed up on his maybe brother. Joker now knows his secret identity for certain. The Red Hood gang has been beating him for six issues. What else?

@zeeguy91: hurts when you're always wrong, doesnt it? get used to it.

@theacidskull:

"Snyder doesn't get the basics when it comes to batman..."

"in the Joker arc batman for one thing tells the joker that he will never kill because he won't stoop tto the criminals level, this IMO is incorrect because it's a KNOW thing that batman doesn't kill because he is afraid of becoming the very thing he tries to fight"

Seriously... is this what we are getting hung up on? I addressed this point earlier, AcidSkull. As you said, just about every reader already knows why Batman doesn't kill. Most certainly, Snyder does as well. So then, why would he waste page space and ink explaining that to everyone again? (EDIT: Went back and re-read the issue again, and Snyder actually DOES have Bruce say plainly to Alfred in issue #17, "It's true I don't do it because of my code... what I stand for... but there's another reason too."). Batman never once says that "not stooping to the criminal's level" is his primary reason why he doesn't kill. It's quite the opposite, actually. And I find it very disturbing that people are trying to twist what he says to Alfred into somehow being something entirely different than what was intended.

"The Joker doesn't care about his past, in fact it's laughable to him... in fact he doesn't remember who he is properly, so why... would be suddenly so worried that batman might know WHO he really is?"

First, where is it ever stated in the comics that Joker outright doesn't care about his past? He twists it, plays it up, and even uses it to mess with peoples heads. He JOKES about it (go figure) (EDIT: In fact he even says to Batman, "You're playing my own joke," when Batman tells him he's "deduced" his identity in issue #17). This is what Joker says about his past in The Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" Sounds to me like Joker doesn't want to know his past, not that he doesn't care about it.

Second, so why would Joker be worried about Batman revealing to him who he really is/was? Well, if Joker tries so hard not to remember it the way it actually was, then it would make sense that he wouldn't want Batman to spoil that for him. But, when it comes down to it, I'm not sure anyone does or can know why Joker seemed so worried, save for Batman. In fact, I find it silly that any reader would claim to have the Joker perfectly pegged. Who are you, or who am I, to say that Joker should not have cared?

Bottom line: Batman was messing with Joker's head... turning the tables on him... in that particular encounter. That was the entire point of their exchange at the end of Death of the Family, because that is what Joker had been doing to Batman for that entire arc. The point was NOT to get hung up on if Joker would or wouldn't have said this, or if Batman could or could not have said that.

"while every writer re-uses concepts they actually evolve on the and use them as grounds to build something new, which morrison actually did. Snyder on the other hand just writes the same story only More watered down."

Heh... In what way exactly is Snyder writing the same story "only more watered down"? This is incredibly vague. The burden of proof is on those of you making this claim to provide convincing evidence as to how he is doing this. Until then, I am content to say that you don't know what you're talking about. (no offense)

The Batgod argument is a fallacy,Snyder doesn't write a more human Batman,he clearly TRIES to write a Batod but it explodes in his face.Batman's escape from the Court labyrinth was anything but human,same goes for the Arkham Asylum beat downs in issue #1 and 16(if he wasn't Batgod he wouldn't be one shotting Mr Freeze,Clayface,Scarecrow and Croc), also note the excessive gadgetry. If you want a human Batman look at some the arcs from Legends of the Dark Knight(Prey,Terror,Shaman,Gothic,Venom,Heat etc),Snyder's Batman isn't more grounded or human,he's infact a Batgod who sucks at everything. Morrison wrote Batgod that's true but at the same time he made it more difficult for himself to write Batman consistently and yet still managed to succeed,when Morrisons villains actually managed to best Batman or get the better of him it truly felt special.

Snyder though his villains dont come across as deadly at all,it's just that his Batman is ineffectual and not because Batman is more grounded but because Snyder cant write a proper villain.

To sum up Snyder isn't writing a human Batman,he's writing sucky villains which indirectly affects Batman for the obvious reasons.

I can see where you're coming from with your second point.

You missed what I said.

First, I said less Batgod syndrome. I fully realize that Batman still has those moments under Snyder's writing. It's not nearly as pervasive as it was with Morrison, however.

Second, I said that Snyder, despite all that, still manages to keep Batman more grounded than Morrison. And he absolutely does, in my opinion. No fallacy there at all.

How so?

His feats equal or surpass those that occurred during Morrison's run. How exactly is he more grounded?

I have to disagree with you on most points.

1. Snyder has most certainly written Bruce Wayne as one of the world's leading intellects and as a master detective, showcasing these abilities on several occasions.

Intellect: I guess it largely depends on what it is each person wants to see from his intellect. For me, you need not look any further the first two issues of The Court of Owls arc, actually. I remember seeing incredibly advanced scientific tech on display. Remember the retinal "contact lens" camera/video display w/ processor, or the incredible holographic forensics station in the bat-cave? How about that slick digital face mask (E.M.P.) that Nightwing wore which allowed him to look exactly like the Joker (his face)? All are examples of Wayne's intellect coming through in his tech. It's highly likely that each of these were Bruce's own inventions that were put into production, and we were given no reason to believe otherwise.

Deduction/Detective skill: After being drugged and starved for over a week, Batman was able to not only deduce the way of escape from the Court's underground labyrinth (which no person before him was able to do), but he was also able to secretly devise a method of achieving that escape without any of his tools and all the while having the Court watch his every move via hidden video cameras. How about Bruce deducing, before anyone else, that Dick was originally supposed to have been a Talon? How about in the Clayface arc when Bruce deduced that Clayface could no longer recreate his own face or voice, thus allowing Bruce to trap him permanently?

Anyway, some of these feats were quite "awe-inspiring" to me.

2. There's no personality or voice to Snyder's Batman? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've felt a lot of personality and energy coming off Snyder's pages... in the way Bruce was arrogant initially during the Court of Owls, only to be humbled, then to realize how wrong he'd been and admit he didn't really know Gotham at all, and later apologizing to Dick, thus progressing Bruce's attitude and story to a different level... Or how when Batman snapped at Clayface in front of everyone for spouting off about Damien... Or how when Bruce sat quietly with Alfred in the darkness of the cave, mourning his son and listening to old recordings of their adventures.

Not sure... I think some people are just never pleased no matter what a writer does or doesn't do. Most of these complaints directed toward Snyder smell like nothing more than stubborn fanboyism to me... I've got to be honest.

I do agree that I'd like to see more of Batman's intellect coming through, and that Snyder has a lot of room for improvement. But you've got to understand... Snyder's been working on Batman for a very short amount of time compared to some of the other big Batman writers (e.g. roughly 3 years compared to Morrison's 7). Sometimes these things simply need time to fully flesh themselves out, just as we saw with Morrison's Batman.

The argument why people say they like Snyder's Batman is because they think he's fallible, that his Batman makes mistakes but the truth is Snyder's Batman makes stupid mistakes, Snyder's threats are pathetic, he's stories' point is that Batman falls but he gets up becoming better but he executes it poorly. He's Batman fears pain, he's Batman fing cries all the time, he's Batman gets scared, he's Batman doesn't want to face the problem, I understand why some people may like this but that's not Batman to me, not after all the writers defined his character for all these years, Snyder deconstructed Batman's personality and he made him a just some pretty rich boy in a Batsuit. I could've actually accepted it as a different take on Batman if the stories were actually interesting but to me they're not. And Morrison and the other writers expanded the mythos, they added something great to the character and his history, Snyder didn't add anything good, he actually took away many great things. I'm not saying he's run is horrible but its nothing noteworthy.

Snyder's Batgod feats equal or surpass Morrison's? lol. No way, my friend. No way.

Let's take a look at some of the bigger stand-out moments...

Morrison's Batman:

• Battles "The Sensei," a man who has perfected his fighting art for centuries, and in the battle becomes blinded, loses the use of one of his arms(broken), is impaled with a spear/staff and several other pointy objects, yet still manages to remain conscious, fight back, and win through sheer willpower.
• Somehow creates a "back-up Batman personality" which would take over if ever he lost his mind. He does lose his mind in the RIP arc, and the back-up personality does indeed take over as planned.
• After being severely drugged by the Black Glove, and then later by the Joker, not having rested for days and being greatly dehydrated, is put in a straitjacket and buried alive inside a coffin underground. He is able to free himself from the jacket and bench press through 600 pounds of dirt on a limited supply of oxygen, escaping the death trap. Immediately following this, he battles his way through a handful of Black Glove's top thugs, chases down their leader (Dr. Hurt), gets shot, leaps a great distance onto a moving helicopter, brings it down, and then swims away to his next mission (in Final Crisis).
• Using the power of his mind, discovers that he is in a deep sleep and turns his memories into weapons to escape the control (and false memories) of The Lump, also turning Lump on his captors. He does indeed free/wake himself from the artificially induced coma or deep sleep (whichever you prefer) using pretty much solely his mind.
• Defeats the ultimate death trap of Darkseid's Omega Sanction ("the death that is life"). To sum up: Bruce is stricken of his memory and hurled backward in history to the time of cavemen. He is on a collision course to the future, where he essentially becomes Darkseid's weapon to destroy the universe, but manages to escape the dark god's plan through his own better planning, and he comes back from death at the very end primarily because he's told "Gotham needs him."

Snyder's Batman:

• Uses the full weight of his body to punch a charging horse, stopping it in its tracks.
• Through physical strength alone, hangs on inside of a jet engine... while the plane is flying.
• Stays alive inside an underground labyrinth while being severely drugged, starved, beaten, and impaled. Then, through sheer force of will, punches his attacker through a wall of solid rock, defeats him, then escapes into an underground river. (Note: He actually is unable to survive through the entire escape experience in the shape he's in, and dies, but he is brought back to life by Harper Row.)
• Through physical strength (and the aid of his standard batsuit), tanks his way through 20-something armored/armed common thugs who basically dog-pile him.
• Over a 28-hour period, battles a steady stream of fighters, and wins, without killing them. (Note: Nowhere in that comic is it stated that Bruce fights continuously for 28 hours without any breaks in between.)

There are a few more instances, but I'm not going to go any further at this point.

Snyder's Batman is far-and-away more grounded and believable than Morrison's. And no, it's not because his Batman somehow makes stupid mistakes. It's because the majority of Morrison's Batman feats are easily more over-the-top and unbelievable than Snyder's. I mean, seriously...

I can feasibly see a guy of Batman's strength and established feats (in the comics) stopping a horse in its tracks with a fully powered skill-strike, hanging on for dear life inside a roaring jet engine and then climbing out, escaping the Court's labyrinth the way that he did, or even plowing through 20 thugs using nothing but brute force and while tanking blows (the Batsuit is designed to provide a great deal of protection against blunt force impact, stabbing, fire, etc.).

However...

Using memories weapons? Creating a back-up personality? Out-planning a god and defeating his ultimate death trap in the way that did? lol. I loved that stuff as much as the next guy, but I can admit they were a bit far fetched even for Batman.

I loved it from #1 - #13. I liked it from #14-18 and from #19-so far, it's been alright. I hope Snyder makes another awesome arc like the owls.

wow just read that review. every point was spot on! (except for the part about the Joker needing to kill someone...the Joker does as the Joker wants. I know thats an argument for PIS, but Joker's randomness allows for that)

I made some edits to this post, if you care to go back and check them out. Added some further supporting evidence. fyi

And you're missing the fact that he's not DIRECTLY writing a more human Batman,he has no desire at all to write a human Batman,what he does is write lame villains with unoriginal gimmicks and overused tricks,so when Batman fights such villains he automatically comes across as inferior.

On the contrary... you are still misunderstanding me. I'll try to be clearer.

I said Snyder is writing a more grounded Batman. Never once did I say he is trying to write a more "human" one. There is a difference. Batman has never really been "human" by reality's standards.

No. By "more grounded" I mean just that; he doesn't suffer from Batgod syndrome nearly as much when Morrison was writing him. Hear me: he still does things that no real human could ever do, but Snyder's Batman (overall) is not in any way approaching what I would call "Batgod" levels.

Let's be real here.

And yes, I believe Snyder is intentionally/directly writing him that way. He's not directly writing a more human Batman, but he is directly writing a more grounded (i.e. not as infallible/godlike) one.

That is what I mean by the word "grounded."

@omnicrono said:

So it's OK to retread and rewrite previous storylines for new readers (who apparently have no prior Batman-knowledge), but you can't explain a basic character trait because most will already know it? Newsflash, we've all read Court of Owls, Death of the Family and Zero Year before as well. And we've read the better versions.

When people don't know what his code is, and why it exists, then they have to work off the information given, and as usual, the information Snyder gives is totally incorrect and out of character.

Snyder's Batman is Batman-lite. Simple as that, really. He's done nothing original, and nothing note-worthy. Saying his run is superior to Morrison's is like saying that the 2009 Star Trek film is better than Blade Runner.

@omnicrono: I understand what you're saying but I completely disagree,Snyder wants to write Batgod,he just fails at it.

(1) Yes, I would argue that most people reading the comic (including new readers to the comic) probably do know that basic character trait of Batman (that he doesn't kill). It has been so central to his character over the past 70-some years that it's pretty much a given at this point. For those people who don't know WHY Batman has the no-killing code - Snyder includes enough information to engage new readers' minds and get them questioning, without going overboard in rehashing the precise reason for the veteran readers who already understand Batman's moral code entirely. Again, there's no reason to waste the ink or the page space, especially if it doesn't feel organic to the specific conversation on page. See the "EDITs" in my previous post for what Bruce says to Alfred in issue 17. Bruce implies that it's primarily because of his "code." After that, he says there's another reason as well (which he elaborates on precisely because it's a NEW reason). For those new readers who don't already know Bruce's main reason for not killing, they have at least been given enough info to now go and find out what that is for themselves.

(2) In what world is it "totally incorrect and out of character"? I don't get this. I think you are blowing some things out of proportion, to be honest. (And yes, I've read your "Magnum Opus of Mediocrity." It was very well written overall.)

(3) Sorry you feel that way, man. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, but there are many people who completely disagree with that assessment.

No problem. Agree to disagree. However, unless you've talked to Snyder personally, I'm not sure how you, or anyone, can know that that is the case (pretty sure he hasn't stated anything regarding it in interviews). Likewise, I can't say for certain that he doesn't want to write him that way. The fact remains - he isn't writing him that way, whatever the reason. I guess we should just leave it at that.

I know they have a reason. Just like I have a reason to dislike most of what Morrison writes. What I've read of Morrison's Batman run just wasn't for me. However, I don't go crapping on it and saying whoever likes it has no IQ or doesn't really "know" Batman, because that'd just be rude.

Also, Court of Owls was only really similar to RIP in that it involved a secret society. Ooooh, Snyder included a secret society in his story, so its obvious that the Court of Owls is just a rip off of Morrison's Black Glove...because there's never been any other example of a secret criminal organization introduced in a comic book before.

Can't say I hate his Batman completely, so:

I like: 1) Overall atmosphere in his stories (perhaps Capullo boosts up his work). 2) Some ideas he's using; like Joker being gay (better gay then with Harley ><); or Idea of Red Hood recruiting random citizens for his gang, or the epilogue with "Hahnium".

I hate: 1) Snyder isn't capable of writing Joker at all. His Joker is awful and pathetic. The only good thing he delivered to character is suit redesign and gay-theme, that's all. Everything else is beyond pathetic... I know Joker is known as walking PIS-Device, but there's just to friggin many plot-holes in his actions, when did he become a speedster!?! And the worst one, he made Joker absolutely incapable of fighting, My god... this is atrocious! He punched Batman JUST ONCE, and yet Bruce was paralysed. This is so bad... I can't even describe. Remember very first issue of Batman, where Joker "was fighting like a maniac" (or something like that). How can someone be Batman's archnemesis when he can't even fight!? Damn even Tony Daniel has given him good fighting scenes in Detective Comics №1. (By the way I like Daniel's Batman more than Snyder's, and I LOVED his black/pink suit with hat, fantastic redesign of classic costume) I don't know what Daniel's been planning when he cutted Joker's face off, but I'm sure he was planning something a lot better than this pathetic of a story, and without annoying crossovers. And overall characterization of Joker is pathetic, damn the whole plot is horrible. I know there's no such thing as out of character for Joker, but it REAAAALY feels out of character. I don't even think he knows that does supersanity mean. 2) Lots of plot-holes in his stories, I mean really many, especially with court of owls. 3) Why is his every story supposed to be crossover?! Like someone there said, he made Higgings like his sidekick. 4) Argh! I'm sorry my English is to bad to describe all of my hate, but you can read FadeToBlackBolt's review for Batman №17, it's perfect.

Side note: Snyder handles Superman better than Batman. My favorite his work is Flashpoint - Project Superman. Just perfect, loved Government's Superman (Sinclair guy) he was badass - "Attachment leads to suffering". And that makes me confused, that in his Unchained he's using almost the same plot that he previously used. Also Sinclair's design = Awesome and badass. Wraith = Fugly and wtf. Snyder's regressing! By the way I also have LOTS of complaints for his Swamp Thing, where he got even more plot-holes, perhaps one day I'll even make an article or something.

Howdy.

Sorry for the late reply.

I appreciate you're well written reply, but I think disagree with most of your points.

1.

It seems your argument for Bruce having a great intellect relies on the assumption that he designed all the advanced tech we see. I don't see anything to support that assumption, not when it's more likely that he takes the tech from Wayne Enterprises.

As for the detective aspect...this has been the most disappointing aspect of Snyder's characterization, for me.

He is writing Batman a lot closer to the Nolan version, where we don't see him deducing...we see him using technology which gives him answers.

For me at least, the worlds greatest detective has acted like anything but. Refusing to investigate the court because he did so as a kid, before he even had any training. Being unable to obtain some of Lincolns DNA. Throwing away the note Lincoln left him, i.e. throwing away evidence, telling Joker his secret identity...

As for his deduction feats in the talon's maze.....why did he have to do that until the end? We see him having been there for long enough for him to be dehydrated and a little bit crazy....what was he doing before then? Why did it take him so long? Without that information, the feat isn't impressive because it never should have gotten to that point, in my opinion.

2.

I think you missed my point about Batman's not having a unique personality. It's not that the character is written without personality, it's that he is written without a defining personality. When I read Morrison's Batman....the way he approached the problems, the problems he was in, his inner monologue....it wouldn't fit any other hero. For the most part. With Snyder's Batman, I don't see why it couldn't be Tony Stark or Daredevil in place of Batman, and the story wouldn't suffer.

I also didn't like the character this Batman has been given, which is a seperate point. But being so arrogant in the start, punching Dick...sigh.

I understand you feel that most of the complaints against Snyder feel stubborn fanboyism. Maybe that's fair. I was pretty attached to the previous incarnation of the character. On the flip-side, I feel like most of the people praising Snyder are apologists who don't really know the character.

To be fair, defeating a god was mostly just using a special weapon, and it was Superman that really defeated him.

Creating a backup personality was very, very much in line with someone as obsessed as Batman.

Snyder's batman has certainly done more physically impressive stuff than Morrisons.

You've gone into great detail with Morrison's feats, and kind of glossed over Snyders.

Really though, the most phsyically impressive thing Morrison had Batman do was bench 600lbs of soil while in a very weak and poor mental state.

Snyder had him hang on inside a jet engine nacelle, which is basically superhuman. Then survived falling from that plane. He also fell from 15 stories with just a dislocated shoulder.

Morrison's Batman highlighted what one of the worlds greatest intellects and perhaps the most obsessed man on the planet is capable of. He did a great job showing his formidable mind. This mind is all but absent from Snyder's version, which has been replaced with superhuman physical feats.

I don't know why you think Snyder's Batman is more grounded or believable. I certainly would think someone could escape being buried alive before they could hang on inside a nacelle than survive a fall from that height and continue fighting.

I wonder what's more polarizing, Snyder's Batman or MOS. That said I'm reading ZY, and it's soooooboring to me.

@omnicrono

• Battles "The Sensei," a man who has perfected his fighting art for centuries, and in the battle becomes blinded, loses the use of one of his arms(broken), is impaled with a spear/staff and several other pointy objects, yet still manages to remain conscious, fight back, and win through sheer willpower.

That effing badas. What issue was that in? "The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul "?

QFT. That's probably why I feel like he's writing just another man in Batsuit.

Yup. And yet somehow they're so many people saying he is the best bat writer in a long time. Funny, when he doesn't even know how to give the character with a unique voice.

Batman #671, if I am not mistaken.

Gallery

I still don't agree, but to each his own. And no, I'm not simply an apologist who doesn't know the character, Muyjingo. Haha! I've been reading Batman for 20-plus years. I enjoy Snyder's take, and I also very much enjoyed Morrison's. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and not all takes on the character have to be identical... nor should they be, so long as the essence of what makes the character great remains intact. Morrison put a heavy emphasis on the intellect of the character, while Snyder emphasizes the character's physical prowess quite a bit more. I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes we just need to learn how to let go and appreciate a different perspective. Snyder's "voice" or "take" is unique enough for me, and again... I've been reading Batman for a little over 20 years. Take that for what it's worth.

All of that being said - if you really want to see what "just another man in a Batsuit" looks like, read Geoff Johns's recent take on the character (see Justice League, Forever Evil). lol

Couple of other points you made a while back, Muy: (sorry I am just now getting to them)

"To be fair, defeating a god was mostly just using a special weapon, and it was Superman that really defeated him."

To be fair, I wasn't talking about when Batman shot Darkseid with the radeon bullet. I was talking about how Batman outwitted and survived Darseid's ultimate death trap, the Omega Sanction, through careful planning and strategy. I thought it was pretty clear that that was what I was referring to when I said "outwitted a god and defeated his ultimate death trap."

"You've gone into great detail with Morrison's feats, and kind of glossed over Snyders."

With all due respect, I didn't "gloss over" anything. I was comparing some of the more outrageous feats of the two writers... the ones that I felt were particularly over-the-top. I then elaborated accordingly for each feat presented. I can't help it if Morrison has a bigger sampling to choose from (in my opinion). I also can't help it if Morrison's feats require a bit more elaboration so as to provide sufficient context. Morrison generally had more complicated plots and set pieces than Snyder has had. Even Morrison's bigger "showcase" feats were generally more elaborate. That was just the nature of the beast, so to speak.

"Snyder had him hang on inside a jet engine nacelle, which is basically superhuman. Then survived falling from that plane. He also fell from 15 stories with just a dislocated shoulder."

I agree that it was basically superhuman, but as I've been saying all along... from the very beginning Batman has never been "human," in any real world sense, in terms of his strength, speed, skill, etc. He has survived many similar adversities prior to Snyder's run, so it was hardly inconsistent or out of character. Don't forget that the Batsuit itself has been substantially buffed since the start of The New 52 also.

"I certainly would think someone could escape being buried alive before they could hang on inside a nacelle than survive a fall from that height and continue fighting."

Well, yeah... of course. Heh, just not in light of everything Batman had endured leading up to his escape. And for him to have accomplished everything he did immediately after his escape was equally outrageous (though I loved every second of it). I'm sure you have read RIP in its entirety, so you know about those things to which I am referring. Regardless, both of those scenarios were pretty unbelievable, and I would never argue otherwise.

Unfortunately I have read JL upto 15 issues. But as much as I hate Johns run and like Snyder's, sometimes his Batman seems more mature (not smart or better) than Snyder's, I don't like the personality of Snyder's Batman, his characterization of Bruce is doesn't feel right at least to me.

I can understand that. We each have a different perspective, opinion, and "feeling" of what Batman should generally be like based on what each of us has read of the character in the past, and that is fine. My feelings about Snyder's take on the character don't have to line up with yours, or vice versa. That doesn't necessarily make one of us more right (or wrong) than the other. It just means we have different perspectives.

In truth, I suspect that you, me, and Muyjngo actually all have pretty similar thoughts on what Batman should be like... we just disagree on some of the particulars of Snyder's interpretation. I don't always like the personality traits that Snyder gives him either, but I can say the same thing about Morrison, Loeb, Moench, and many of the other past Batman writers.

And yeah, I do agree that Snyder's Bruce comes off as very immature at times, but I kind of take that with a grain of salt because I feel like Snyder has been intentionally writing a somewhat younger and considerably less seasoned Batman than Morrison's. I think that was one of the goals of rebooting everything for The New 52. I just always assumed that this is why Bruce is written as being a bit more brash, and why he takes a lot more silly risks that cause long time Bat-readers to stop and say "That was dumb... Batman would never do that" (see tripwire scene in Court of Owls). Of course he probably wouldn't have, but Court of Owls Batman (New 52) is a younger, far less experienced character than, for example, Return of Bruce Wayne Batman (pre-New 52). Same thing goes for Superman, Wonder Woman, and nearly every other major DC character after the reboot.

I know this is six months late, but I love you and this post.

@crazy_llama: Thank you, sir! I appreciate the feedback, and the love. Haha! :)