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#1 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

I have throughly enjoyed it thus far but apparently some people hate it. Why? What wrong with it?

#2 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

I love it when threads are designed to become a sh*tstorm.

#4 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (5609 posts) - - Show Bio

I absolutely love it. My favorite book of the New 52.

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#5 Edited by Wolverine08 (26751 posts) - - Show Bio

Overrated. It's mediocre at best, and Bruce is consistently mischaracterized, and the arcs often end anti climatically. I love Batman, I really do, but I just can't go around saying this series is revolutionary/incredible when it isn't just because it stars him.

#6 Edited by Wolverine08 (26751 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt:

Awesome review. You really hit the faults of the story perfectly.

#7 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by bigtewell (691 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: if youre new to reading batman it is fantastic if you have been a batfan for 3 years or more you will hate it. he doesnt understand bruce nightwing joker mr freeze alfred and gordon it feels as if they are all out of character. his damian is ok tho. his "revamp" of jokers origin ticked me off since i love killing joke. zero year is really boring. he also makes it so you cant just read one batman series they are all tied to the main title. batman seems way too tech reliant where he should have more skill. his stories drag out. and many are upset since batman just had a run of great stories to drop to mediocre so fast

#9 Edited by CheeseSticks (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

Zero Year is terrible. Also there's a rumor reporting that the leader of the Red Hood gang is the Joker. That's even worse.

#10 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

well i'm going to speak my mind: 1. he is extremely unoriginal: death of the family - death in the family, batman year zero - batman year one. what's next? whisper - hush? 2. his batman is kind of a cocky idiot. look at death of the family. he refuses to tell the truth about the cave break in until the last moment. the only thing missing is for him to be spewing left and right 'i'm the goddamn batman'. 3. he is using the tar pit that is the dc continuity to his advantage. we dont know what happened or not. take the court of owls ark. it is impossible to not have heard of it ever. through all of the crap gotham went through it is impossible to not have at least seen a slither of them. but that's it. we dont know what happened. 4. his endings are extremely underwhelming. death of the family: this huge hubub that the bat family is on edge, that they dont trust him, next thing that happens they are all at wayne manor chilling, no repercursions on what the joker did, on how bats never told them about the break-in nothing. bussiness as usual. but the one that pissed me off the most was the court of the owls ending: i know it's a comic but i can't ignore the fact that a supposedly normal human being can survive so many crashes PLUS pull himself from an airplane propeller after having the tar beat out of him. i cant it's too much. so yeah that's why i think snyder is at best mediocre batman writer. his swamp thing is superb but this is just pathetic.

#11 Posted by Wolverine08 (26751 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Synder's Batman is that all his arcs crash at the end. "Death of the Family" started out explosively enthralling, but by the end of the arc was eye rollingly stupid, and a terrible characterization of Joker. Snyder needs to improve on making his arcs consistently good all the way through.

#13 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: Wow. Well I want you to understand where I'm coming from. Snyders batman is the first batman comic I've ever read. My inky exposure before it was the animated JL JLU and Batman animated series'. I only started reading comics in February. So to me as this is my first time reading about the character I loved it...though I have read "the killing joke" and I did think that it wasn't the same joker in both stories

#14 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: I'm now rereading that review of yours and it's still awesome and right :P

#15 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123: That's not at all my intention. I just didn't want to derail another thread and I had a question. Snyders batman is the first time I read batman (the third comic I ever bought) and I loved it. I'm just curious that if people hate this then what do they think is a good batman story

#16 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: That's the thing. So when I say "you're wrong for liking it", I'm not actually talking to you, so please don't take it as me having a shot at new fans.

@bigtewell said:

@sog7dc: if youre new to reading batman it is fantastic if you have been a batfan for 3 years or more you will hate it.

bigtewell hit the nail completely on the head. This is exactly correct.

The reason it's so appealing to new readers is that they're not familiar with the characters he's butchering, and these concepts that he's just stolen and reused seem interesting because they've not read them before.

#17 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: See I just randomly stumbled on my LCS earlier this year and saw vol 1 of batman and the guy behind the counter said it was awesome so I bought it. I have read other batman stories like killing joke and mirroring batman and robin and I did notice things I didn't like and that didn't make sense. (I never got why the joker cut his face of and the put it back on.) but I chalked it up to it being a reboot of the character. I have complained bout the lack of detective work and martial arts and intelligence this batman has displayed but apparently you have to buy allll of his titles to get all of batman....which sucks for a college student living on $200 a month

#18 Edited by Daredevilnut (104 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a long time batfan and I love his work on Batman so far, Zero Year has been great, Court of Owls was awesome, Death of The Family was great until the ending

#19 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Yeah, don't do that. Just wait for the trades (it's cheaper, depending on where you live), and only get the ones that interest you.

DC want you to buy all of the titles, but doing what DC wants is a bad move that gets you fired (asked Gail Simone).

#20 Posted by azazel66 (33 posts) - - Show Bio

what do you think about snyders batman besides the new 52 (black mirror etc)?

#21 Edited by MasterDetective (678 posts) - - Show Bio

Snyder is the best Batman writer of all time with O'Neil and Bruce Timm

#22 Posted by Amaryllis (73 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

#23 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaryllis said:

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

Either you're trolling, or... you know, there's not another option. You have to be trolling.

#24 Posted by Lvenger (16058 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaryllis said:

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

Either you're trolling, or... you know, there's not another option. You have to be trolling.

He's a moron and doesn't know what he's talking about :P

#25 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by batmannflash (6109 posts) - - Show Bio

I really like Snyder's Batman. Black Mirror, Court of Owls, etc...

They aren't the first Batman stories I've read but I like them a lot. Death of the Family sort of ended anti-climatically but all in all I was thrilled to read it. The Court of Owls are very cool villains and I really like the fights that came out of it. And Black Mirror was simply fantastic

#27 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27425 posts) - - Show Bio

@cheesesticks: Why would that be worse? The Joker has always been the leader of the Red Hood gang

#28 Posted by CheeseSticks (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

@cheesesticks: Why would that be worse? The Joker has always been the leader of the Red Hood gang

No? He was not the leader in the Killing Joke. Now he's just like Black Mask or Penguin. A crime leader.

#29 Posted by RustyRoy (9243 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with pretty much everyone, I don't hate his run but I don't like it either.

#30 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27425 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@cheesesticks: Why would that be worse? The Joker has always been the leader of the Red Hood gang

No? He was not the leader in the Killing Joke. Now he's just like Black Mask or Penguin. A crime leader.

Yes he was

#31 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

His ending always kinda feel a little anti-climactic to me, beside that I love his books.

I really wish Morrison would come back to write Batman, Morrison Batman is my all time favorite Batman.

#32 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: all your comic cred has been flushed down the toilet with that post.

#33 Posted by RustyRoy (9243 posts) - - Show Bio

His ending always kinda feel a little anti-climactic to me, beside that I love his books.

I really wish Morrison would come back to write Batman, Morrison Batman is my all time favorite Batman.

I hope he comes back, maybe after a year or two.

#34 Edited by Omnicrono (978 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been reading Batman comics for twenty years. Overall, I am really enjoying Snyder's Batman.

Is it perfect? No. But, I tend not to sweat the small stuff. For instance, Batman saying he hates Joker the most, or the bat family seemingly being very dense by not already realizing Joker knows their identities (which of course, from a reader's perspective, you would think that they should)... this isn't life or death stuff, to me, and in-and-of-itself certainly doesn't irreparably damage what has already been established about these characters and their motivations. Not for me. Not at all. I think for some people, especially reviewers, they tend to get caught up in looking for mistakes and things they can criticize, instead of simply enjoying a story for what it is.

Snyder has taken his liberties as the current Batman writer with the way he portrays the characters, that much is true. And whether I like it or not, there will be a new writer after him, and another... and another... all of whom take their own liberties with these characters. They won't always get everything right. They'll make mistakes along the way in how these characters are portrayed. But you know what... if the story is ultimately satisfying to me, I can hold onto the good and usually forget about the bad, so long as it isn't something that permanently damages a character for generations to come. Snyder certainly hasn't done that. Not even close.

So, does Snyder make mistakes with these stories and the way he portrays the characters? Of course he does. Every writer does. I certainly don't think it's because he doesn't have a firm grasp on the characters. I just think it's because nobody is perfect and, beyond that, every writer has his/her own style and interpretation.

Kudos to Mr. Snyder for giving us some truly great and memorable Batman tales. I know that my friends and I will be talking about them for years to come. When the next writer comes along, so long as he knows how to tell a good story and keep me engaged, and so long as he doesn't truly damage the characters for posterity, I am sure I will appreciate him or her as well. :)

God bless!

EDIT: I wanted to comment on this one other thing... Batman saying that he didn't kill Joker because a newer or bigger threat would take his place was certainly not the only thing that stopped him from doing so. That was just obvious to me. Every faithful Batman reader knows Bruce's moral and ethical code. As a writer with a good grasp on the character, Snyder knows this too. Consequently, he need not waste ink, or use up precious page space, explaining to us that "Oh, by the way, Batman primarily didn't kill Joker because of his code which says that if he crosses that line then he won't be able to stop." We all know this already. Batman was simply saying that, even if he didn't have his strict code of "no killing" in place, he wouldn't kill the Joker because he understands that a new and possibly greater threat would eventually rise up to take his place. That's what I took away from it, anyway.

#35 Edited by MrShway88 (653 posts) - - Show Bio

I been reading Batman long before Synder and I really enjoy it. I love his ideas and each issue leaves me wanting more. People say he is over rated which i will agree he gets a lot of positive spotlight but I think he deserves it. Because of the hype he receives people become disappointed. Go in fresh and I bet you will like it. He has his flaws like everyone but I love his run.

#36 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrshway88: so you are saying he's overrated but he deserves it? gotcha.

#37 Edited by heroesgold (598 posts) - - Show Bio

Overrated. It's mediocre at best, and Bruce is consistently mischaracterized, and the arcs often end anti climatically. I love Batman, I really do, but I just can't go around saying this series is revolutionary/incredible when it isn't just because it stars him.

#38 Posted by scouts1998 (524 posts) - - Show Bio

for all those people hating his run, there a couple of people who seem to know how his stories go, are you hating Snyder but still reading the book?

#39 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouts1998: nice try newbie, but there is such a thing as word of mouth or you know posts. plus if we've all given him a try on court of owls so read one, read them all. or just read it online to see the ways in which he rips off previous stories. just some guesses.

#40 Posted by BR_Havoc (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

I left the book solely for the reason Snyder is terrible at writing endings. His mind seems to be at the next story line so he slaps together weak endings that hurt the overall story. Also his Mr. Freeze reboot is HORRIBLE.

#41 Posted by RedLantern23 (582 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, comic fans will always find something to complain about. I enjoy the book.

#42 Posted by Eternal19 (2074 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like how he turned Mr. Freeze from a sympathetic character into just another crazy guy with tech powers. I enjoyed the first 6 issues, but lot interest after that. Death of the family didn't really appeal to me. The stories that it pays homage to were much better. Snyder is not a bad writer, His American Vampire, Swamp Thing, and Batman: Black Mirror are great for horror fans. The current batman run doesn't really do anything to improve the batman mythos

#43 Edited by MasterDetective (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaryllis said:

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

Finaly someone with some senses! *bro hug*

don't listen to the others, they are just dumb hipsters who are stuck in the past

#44 Edited by Amaryllis (73 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: Thanks man. I see it all over these boards sometimes, they just can't move on. It's pitiful.

#45 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: this coming from the guy that said batman should be black to be a darker knight. yes you are a genius.

#46 Edited by Omnicrono (978 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, comic fans will always find something to complain about. I enjoy the book.

Some of the criticisms toward Snyder's writing are valid ones. However, there is definitely truth in what you say. Haha!

#47 Edited by entropy_aegis (13631 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

Easy to say that,I wonder what your reaction will be when Snyder's run gets retconned.Regardless it doesn't apply to Batman or didn't when DCNU started.

Batman was lagging? previously we had Cassandra Cain,Stephanie Brown,Helena Bertinelli,Barbara as Oracle,now we have Strix(why care about her again?),Helena Wayne whose only claim to fame is being Batman's daughter from another universe and a grown woman who calls herself Batgirl.

Snyder's Batman is a man stuck in the past,his characterization is totally regressive and backwards,this incredible mission under Snyder's pen is just one big failure after another,more grief,more gloom it's like Batman is totally worthless.Morrison made him a symbol for everyone across the globe,he was worshiped at that point. Snyders Batman gets no respect from anyone,and frankly why should he,he's stubborn,juvenille,arrogant and disrespectful.This isn't Batman this is just some cliche cocky hero.

@amaryllis said:

@masterdetective: Thank you! I was reading this thread thinking it was just going to be a couple of people who can't let go of the pre-52 universe again but finally some sense.

Batman was lagging pre-52. He wasn't at his full potential with Morrison. Snyder understands him perfectly and his Bruce speaks the way a man who has taken on this incredible mission in his life would speak.

Finaly someone with some senses! *bro hug*

don't listen to the others, they are just dumb hipsters who are stuck in the past

Dumb hipsters who have actually contributed something meaningful,what have you done again?

#48 Edited by entropy_aegis (13631 posts) - - Show Bio

To answer the OP's question:

  • Snyder is more interested in writing the next big story instead of focusing on making the story he's writing currently good.I first noticed this back in Batman#5 when people were still on the Snyder bandwagon.There he traps Batman in an unescapable maze(we are only told it's unescapable),he has Batman beaten bloody and bruised,reviewers go screaming "OMG RIP,Knightfall have been surpassed" only for Batman to get back up beat the shit out of Talon and escape the unescapable maze with in seconds. Fans are left to wonder as to why Batman couldn't escape when he's was healthy and fresh. This is why his stories fizzle out at the climax.
  • In my previous point I mentioned the fans being told that the maze is unescapable,well that's what Snyder entire run has been. We are just told things,when Snyder wants to get a point across he literally has to hammer it in to your face.I'll give you some examples "Owls eat Bats,Owls are the natural predator of the Bat,Owls ate Bats in the Bat cave centuries ago(why does this even matter?),Owls have nests everywhere,oh and did I mention Owls eat Bats",or how about Riddler for instance"You're my strategist Edward,I'm your uncle's strategist,I'm your strategist,your strategist king Batman,you are a strategist Edward" now we wouldn't mind if Riddler actually does something strategic,but here it's just empty talk and nothing more,false hype and he did the same thing with the Joker and Lincoln March. Since his stories have no substance and originality he has to resort to giving us empty words to make us care.
  • Every single story he has written has to be a crossover with dozens of tie inns.Now most Snyder loyalists dismiss this with"read the main story,forget the tie inns they are not important". But here's the problem some of us DONT GIVE A S*HIT about the main story,we just wanna read Detective,Nightwing etc tell their own stories instead of being constantly dragged in to these ridiculous crossovers. Thanks to Snyder we have been robbed of potential substitutes,instead of telling their own story writers are busy playing catch up with Snyder.
  • Unoriginal trite that opens itself to comparison to other stories,when you choose to call your story Death of the Family and claim it's gonna be on par with classic Joker stories before fans even get the chance to read it then it's going to get criticism no matter what,when you call your story zero year and claim it's Batman's origin rewritten then you're bound to earn the ire of of year one fans.My advice to Scott,write your own story dammit.
  • Snyder has this habit of tying everything in to the past,every single story he's written has him retroactively shoehorning events in to the past and eventually we are left worse off than we were.I can handle Snyder writing Batman stories that I dont care about,but I cant handle him f*cking up the characters history and continuity. There's plenty more if you wanna get specific but I find these to be the major flaws in his work.
#50 Posted by Billy Batson (56951 posts) - - Show Bio

  • Every single story he has written has to be a crossover with dozens of tie inns.Now most Snyder loyalists dismiss this with"read the main story,forget the tie inns they are not important". But here's the problem some of us DONT GIVE A S*HIT about the main story,we just wanna read Detective,Nightwing etc tell their own stories instead of being constantly dragged in to these ridiculous crossovers. Thanks to Snyder we have been robbed of potential substitutes,instead of telling their own story writers are busy playing catch up with Snyder.

That might be the editors' choice so don't blame old Scott for that.

BB