New 52 Batman #36: Did Batman finally defeated Superman?

feel free, post, talk.

Not a battle

No.

@darthaznable: whoops so its not supposed to be post here?. maybe this thread should be moved to General Discussion instead of Batman? It would attract more votes on overall to compare the opinions.

Batman said that the only reason he stood a chance at all in that fight was because Superman wasn't at full power, so no....

Technically Batman did beat Superman before. This particular case you're talking about I don't know.

Nope

Pretty much this.

The League were pretty heavily handicapped.

Context was a big reason for any victory any human gets over Superman.

Fans of Batman have dealt with decades of bullshit double, triple, and quadruple standards of what Batman should or should not be capable of in a comic book. And the excuses have been as ludicrous and stupid as many who have said that Batman was too unrealistic whenever he went out. Or was too smart. Or should not realistically ever beat Joker.

This fight was a Bloodlusted Superman doing more feats than standard Superman morals on in a fight. So as far as beating a standard power level Superman...yeah.

As far as beating Sun God Superman...Brainiac had problems with Sun God Superman.

I just felt glad that one high tier writer felt like having a human be able to be effective in DC. The nihilists must be angry.

That wasn't standard Superman.

@the_kidd: and flying half the speed of light would actually cook the planet...more proof of the whining double standard.

I already said he could not beat Full power Sun God superman. The one who solos the league with utter ease.

He kinda did beat Superman, but Supes wasn't fully in his right mind so no.

Nope because it wasn't really superman in control of himself, it was the joker

NO AND HE WILL NEVER WILL!

Whether batman beat superman or not ,Joker surely beat Superman

Yup, he totally won and he has won before. The DKR is not canon probably because its set in the future, but considering its popularity and acceptance by mainstream media, DC would have mostly likely made it canon had it been in present time.

That wasn't a bloodlusted Superman due to the fact that he wasn't in his right mind and could not make rational decisions due to The Joker's toxin or whatever. Batman #36 is tricky. I think of it more as Batman vs Semi Superman and Joker. I think the battle itself was more of a draw.

@the_kidd: That strip just made my day

@deathstroke52: It was a blood lusted Superman, because it was basically the Joker using Superman's powers, so it wasn't the typical Superman holding back, he was going all out against Batman.

@batzilla: Superman wasn't in his right mind and could not make rational decisions in battle. You can't really say that Batman beat Superman when the writers portrayed the result as a draw. And it was a Jokerized Superman at that.

What rational decisions could Superman have made that were impacted by the Joker. The entirety of his powers were in display and used by a madman who is possibly smarter than even Superman. Not only that, but he was out to kill Batman, hence the term blood lusted Superman.

Yes, yes he did. A bloodlusted Superman. Soloed the league too.

The writers didn't portray the result as a draw. Superman was knocked out and Batman wasn't; that's not a draw.

Post scans then I'll vote

@marcus_halberstram said:

Oh really? I guess I'll have to read it again.

He would have been more calculative especially if he had prep time. He wouldn't be jabbering about "Who wins in a fight Superman or Batman?!!?!?" like he dd in the comic. Being Jokerized impaired his judgement and thought process most likely.

Right, exactly

This sounds like a delusional excuse at best. Superman would normally hold back because he would be afraid of hurting Batman or any other human. He wasn't holding back here because it was the Joker controlling him, hence the fact that he was blood lusted. Also, who else is better at prep time than Joker, except Batman himself, so no, this excuse doesn't fly.

If he was in his right mind, he would've held back.

@micah said:

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

Right, so now Batman doesn't exist and never made that bet with Superman, so Clark never flied back in time to prevent Batman from existing.

This is why people say Superman loses when Batman preps --- the alien's an idiot.

And probably would have simply immobilized Bruce. He doesn't have to squish him into the pavement to beat him, because in his right mind, he knows it takes a fraction of his power to actually beat Bruce.

But obviously the true Superman wouldn't do this, he hasn't done this with Lex Luthor before and he wouldn't do this to Batman, so the point still stands.

@saren said:

@micah said:

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

Right, so now Batman doesn't exist and never made that bet with Superman, so Clark never flied back in time to prevent Batman from existing.

This is why people say Superman loses when Batman preps --- the alien's an idiot.

Wrong he would go back to the time line from there and he would still be the same Superman with the same memories.

Its some Back To the Future thing!!!

He show this in Superman The Movie.

Also he could use the memory wipe kiss on Batman.

Batman wasn't at full power and had zero prep in that fight.

Why doesn't it? It was a Jokerized Superman. A Jokerized Batman wouldn't be in his right mind and probably do some weird things and fight in an unusual way. And with prep time, why isn't Superman better than Batman?

Yes exactly.

Batman's greatest weapon his is mind, so a Jokerized Batman is completely different than a Jokerized Superman, who can be a zombie and still use all his powers lol. With prep time, Superman is not better than Batman in the context that Batman is a better strategist and planner that Superman. Think about it, why would Superman ever have had to plan anything? He has never needed any serious thinking and planning ahead, he can just punch and laser eye his way through his problems.

No, exactly nothing. As I already stated, "obviously the true Superman wouldn't do this, he hasn't done this with Lex Luthor before and he wouldn't do this to Batman, so the point still stands."

Not only did he beat Superman, but he managed to do it by spitting in his eye.

So, yes.

How is he not better than Batman with prep time? With some threats you're right all he has to do is punch his way through. But if he ever had to strategically prepare for something, what's stopping him from doing that? Superman can get on Batman's level as far as prepping goes.

What do you mean true Superman?

@deathstroke52: I literally explained this in the same post you are replying to lol: "Batman's greatest weapon his is mind, so a Jokerized Batman is completely different than a Jokerized Superman, who can be a zombie and still use all his powers lol. With prep time, Superman is not better than Batman in the context that Batman is a better strategist and planner that Superman. Think about it, why would Superman ever have had to plan anything? He has never needed any serious thinking and planning ahead, he can just punch and laser eye his way through his problems."

Immobilized him in that suit he was wearing? The suit which had counters to almost everything he could dish out? The suit he could only tear a part of(he just ripped of the shoulders which were already weakened by Flash)? And to do that, had to resort to dirty tactics(which Clark, in his right mind, wouldn't). That suit? I highly doubt that.
If Clark was in his right mind, he would've been knocked out earlier, without being spit in his eye.

Yes Batman beat him and the rest of the league. I am not sure how superman can be bloodlusted, attack batman, and have batman being the last one standing, and people still not say batman won. Batman won that fight with his kryptonite gum.

@teerack: kryptonite gum could have defeated a superman at full power too. Even not at full power he tore though Bruce's suit, but I don't think being fully powered would've saved him from k-nite

wow...pathetic....just pathetic....

Come on already, Snyder flat out stated that every Leaguer was handicapped, including Supes. I mean, the guy got into an FTL slugfest with Doomsday that shot them all the way out to Venus. How would Batman really survive that?

But since apparently Batman could beat him, Superman would need to prepare. The point is that if Superman ever had to prep, he would be fully capable of coming up with a plan and beating Batman regardless if Bats had prep as well.