Frank Miller vs Bruce Timm: The Ideal Batman

Timm. I'm not that big a fan of Miller's Batman.

Same

Grant Morrison solos.

Bruce Timm stomps.

Timm all the way.

Bruce Timm, easy.

There isnt an ideal Batman, he is a mix several creatives teams.

Geoff John's Batman.

Bruce Timm easily out of these two.

This. Grant Morrison's Batman was perfect imo

Timm's Batman easily but Morrison's Batman is the perfect Batman and the best representation of Batman.

I really don't like Morrison Batman, Tim is good, but Miller is perfect.

For me it is Timm.

I don't get this Morrison Hype, his Batman Comics are confusing and extrem hard to follow (and in my opinion didn't make much sense).

Shouldn't this be Paul Dini vs Frank Miller? Bruce Timm is the art not the writer. If we're comparing art, then Timm stomps Miller, even though does have distinct style that fits well with the tone of his stories but it's not for everyone, Timm's Batman design however is revolutionary.

As for writing, TAS vs Dark Knight Returns? hmm tough one but since Miller's an elseword and non-mainstream (and slightly out of character), I have to go with Dini, because his version of Batman simply had it all.

@aahz The OP is talking about Ideal Batman, even if someone doesn't like Morrison's story, I don't think many would argue that his Batman was better than Timm's and Miller's.

@anjales Actually even Paul Dini didn't write all the episodes, most people call BTAS, JL/JLU, BB universe the DCAU or Timmverse, I don't think the OP is talking about the story or art but Batman himself.

@xwraith: @ganon15: @black_claw: @cattlebattle: @rustyroy: @aahz: @anjales: Assuming we use Prime Miller, how is TAS anywhere near Miller's version?

Sure, TAS was good but in contrast to Batman Year One / The Dark Knight Returns, it's a dumbed down, simplistic and rosier version. Miller's version is both more complex and thought-provoking.

To give DKR a fair trial you'd have to compare it to Batman Beyond, and DKR is by far a more representative version of what Batman and Gotham would be like.

@frozen The title says ideal Batman and while I like Miller's Batman, it's the ideal Batman for me. First you have to take into account ASBAR and TDKSA because those were also written by Miller and are in continuity with YO and TDKR, even if you only consider YO and TDKR it's not the best version IMO, this guy partially caused the end of superheroes without coming up with a logical solution, he pushed away his allies, is too arrogant and too brash, Miller's Batman is awesome but no where near my ideal Batman, and for some of the same reasons, Timm's Batman isn't either.

Miller.

Miller all the way.

@rustyroy: I still don't see what was special about Morrisons Batman.

I was going to come here and rant about the awfulness of Frank Miller, what with his hypocrisy, inability to write dialogue, sexism/anti-feminist themes, disgusting depiction of women and disrespect for all of his characters, but Dini has been doing the same thing since 2006 and gets away scot free. Not on my watch. Dini is a sexist, ignorant, smug, arrogant, hypocritical, washed up moron whose recent work from 2006 onward is some of the worst garbage DC has ever piled out since the 60s. If you think his Detective Comics run, particularly Detective Comics #823 - Stalked is good...Well, there's having a different opinion...And then there's liking Stalked. Dini is an idiot. He sucks big time and comic book fans need to wake up and realize he's not a good writer, or a good person.

@anjales said:

Bruce Timm did write a couple of episodes. It is considered the "Timmverse" due to the fact that he was overall in charge of everything. He had to give the OK on voice casting, character design, story etc.

TAS isn't anywhere near Millers versions, they are two different animals altogether. The Batman animated show was its own original concept for the most part that had most of its influence, if any, from the Denny O' Neil/Neal Adams stuff. Frank Miller did his own thing. However, the Batman animated show has been more overall influential to subsequent artists, writers and readers.

There isn't anything really comparable to Millers work other than Bruce being an old, retired guy. So I don't really see why that would be a thing.

In what I consider the Ideal Batman, I think that Timm is closer but Morrison for me is perfect. The Miller version of the character is really awesome too but I don´t think it is closer to me ideal Batman.

@cattlebattle:

TAS isn't anywhere near Millers versions, they are two different animals altogether. The Batman animated show was its own original concept for the most part that had most of its influence, if any, from the Denny O' Neil/Neal Adams stuff. Frank Miller did his own thing. However, the Batman animated show has been more overall influential to subsequent artists, writers and readers.

There isn't anything really comparable to Millers work other than Bruce being an old, retired guy. So I don't really see why that would be a thing.

Frank Miller's Batman re-defined and set the foundation for the Post-Crisis Batman. The Dark Knight Returns practically brought Batman back to #1. Now aside from DKR, there's Batman Year One which developed upon the psyche of Batman and expanded the Gordon / Batman dynamic.

@frozen: By referring to Bruce Timm's Batman I don't just mean the TAS one, I mean the DCAU Batman as a whole

Even if we take DCAU Batman as a whole, in contrast to Miller's version (not including DSKA/All Star), it's a rosier and bland version. Whereas Miller's was grittier, more complex and thought-provoking. Also more influential.

I was expecting you to quote me on that.

Yes, they are two very different things though. I think it was the overall onslaught of Millers work, the Batman films and the Batman animated show all around the same time that brought Batman to the top. However, I think a lot of people, I know for a fact that lots of comic writers consider the animated Batman, "their" Batman.

I'm pretty predictable.

Nothing too special, but the OP asked Ideal/Perfect Batman, not the most special. I actually don't think there's any version of Batman which is more special than the other, all are special in there own way. And what was special about Timm's version anyway? His Batman was basically influenced by all the other versions of Batman (same with Morrison, the only difference is he was also influenced by the GA and SA stories), in fact the JL/JLU version of Batman was more influenced by Morrison's JLA Batman than any other writers.

@rustyroy: Special as maybe the wrong word. I don't see any difference between Morrisons Batman and the Batman of other authors (I assume we discuss here Batman=Bruce).

The big difference between Morrisons and most other authors is his "confusing" writing style and his very strange villans. And this I don't like.

Morrison's Batman is a better team player, has a very good relationship with Nightwing and other Batfamily and JL characters, in fact it is the only significant story/run where Bruce passed the mantle, TDKR and Timmverse Batman pretty much pushed away there family, less obsessive and arrogant, more logical and capable, is better leader, more friendly, reliable, trusting, sexy as hell, biggest badass, has better feats of prep (and improvisation) that doesn't involve taking out his friends aka JL and many more. And I never found Morrison's story confusing or too hard too understand and which of his villains are strange compared to Batman's other rogues?

Paul Dini's.

@symbioticspider-man: I guess that means Bruce Timm's

@ganon15: No, that means Paul Dini's.

They are both perfect portrayals of Batman at his respective career point: beginning and near-end. I'm sure writers do consider TAS to be ''their'' writers but DKR changed how writers wrote Batman alltogether which is pretty damn significant.

Are you referring to the DCAU Batman?

@ganon15: Yes

Which is known as the Timmverse because he did most of the work on it, hence why I call it Bruce Timm's Batman

@ganon15: People also call it Diniverse, because you know, he was the writer.

As cattlebattle said, "Bruce Timm did write a couple of episodes. It is considered the "Timmverse" due to the fact that he was overall in charge of everything. He had to give the OK on voice casting, character design, story etc."

Morrison in a murderstomp.

This one's hard I'll go with Timm cause he doesn't have anything like ASBAR under his belt.

People can call it whatever they wan but it's Bruce Timm's baby,Dini also wrote the first 2 Arkham games,some of their comics and has a run on Detective. He writes a solid Batman but nothing extra special,he's actually rather sucky at writing many of Batman's supporting characters.

DCAU Batman.

@jeremy1989: I hope you are joking.