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#1 Edited by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

I have noticed people bragging about how Burton's Batman was all kinds of awesome whereas Nolans Batman sucks because of his realistic portrayal.Now i'm not a fan of realism,and i do believe Batman is'nt as effective under Nolan as he should be,but i see nothing "watered down" about the villians,did we really need a lazarus pit in Batman Begins? and while the joker gas would have been a nice touch let's be honest neither would have added to the plot.

Now lets get down to Burton's flaws which people tend to overlook in their nostalgia;

His characters were'nt characters,they were robots.Take a look at the people of Gotham,they decided to elect Penguin after he saved a baby from a kidnapper(who was hired by him,and was'nt ever captured),these very people flocked to the streets when Joker promised them some free cash,they forgot the fact that this same man poisoned all their cosmetic items and murdered another man in public in broad daylight.The authorities were absent from the parade and only showed up after/around Joker's demise,these people deserved to be killed.

Then there's Burton's Joker who's greatest ambition in life was to have sex with Vicki Vale,facepalm,Selina Kyle was you average assistant who falls a dozen stories fall and then overnight transforms in to brilliant acrobat and a capable fighter,Selina's motivation was...go figure.Then there's Keaton's awesome(supposedly) Batman who just sits in his cave doing nothing untill the police flash the signal,this Batman decided to kill Joker after he found out that the Joker killed his parents and even punched him off a building,he also attached a bomb to another wrestler type brute,but later he was giving lessons in morality to Selina Kyle when she wanted to kill Max Shreck,who funnily was the REAL villian of Batman Returns and arguably the only multidimensional character,Gordon and Alfred might as well not exist and no one would miss them.Keatons fighting style was also mostly laughable to me,everytime he struck someone it looked like a rubber doll hitting another doll.Batman also had no character in him to boot,Penguin,Schreck and even Selina were more likable then Bruce Wayne.

Now Schumacher did get somethings right,his Batman was'nt an emotionless shell.Take a look at his relationships with both Alfred and Dick Grayson,i find it amusing how people complain about Robin when he was arguably the most realistic character in the entire franchise.Riddler,Freeze and Ivy were fairly good as well,i'll take them over Joker,Penguin and Catwoman.Two-face and Bane were raped no doubt.

Really the only thing Burton has going for him over Schumacher is the set design/atmosphere,and sadly people use this as a pretext for claiming that Burton's portrayals were close to the comic, but really when did you ever see Joker having a fetish for Vale? Catwoman was actually trained by Arm less master and WildCat,unlike Burton's version who became what she is in under a few minutes,and i most certainly don't recall Oswald Cobblepot finding an army of killer Penguins in the sewers.

Share your opinions folks.

#2 Posted by Loki9876 (2981 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree burtons movies weren't the best catwoman was messed (she died and cats resurrected her) and other things were messed up too but schumacher is worse. was the riddler schumacher's fault or burtons because he was messed up too.

#3 Posted by Shadow_Thief (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry, but Shumacher lost me the moment he put Arnold in a lab coat and expected me to take it seriously.

#4 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shadow_Thief said:

Sorry, but Shumacher lost me the moment he put Arnold in a lab coat and expected me to take it seriously.

@Loki9876 said:

I agree burtons movies weren't the best catwoman was messed (she died and cats resurrected her) and other things were messed up too but schumacher is worse. was the riddler schumacher's fault or burtons because he was messed up too.

But Joel was better at handling personalities and relationships,really just remove Bane and Two-face and i think the movies become much better.

#5 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

Or maybe i just love Nicole Kidman(my first crush).

#6 Posted by kashif1 (40 posts) - - Show Bio

nah, Burton's movies are a bit too cold but Shumacher took it to far in the opposite direction. Also Batcriditcard

#7 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@kashif1 said:

nah, Burton's movies are a bit too cold but Shumacher took it to far in the opposite direction. Also Batcriditcard

LOL.

#8 Posted by Zuif Basi (46 posts) - - Show Bio

I didnt really like any of them. I thought that the first one with Keaton was alright. I didnt like the Joker being the one that killed Bruce's parents. I absolutely hated the 2nd one. Walken was amazing as always. I cant stand Jim Carey so I saw bits of the 3rd one. I hated Two Face in it. I didnt mind the 4th one as much as most people do. I thought that Arnold actually did a good job with his limitted abilities. Plus Jesse Ventura was in it. Bane was horrible. But as Entropy has mentioned Robin was good. As for the Nolan movies I liked the first half of the first one. The second one was to long. It should have been titled The Joker. I fealt that Batman was an afterthought in it. Take out the scene where he breaks into the corporate headquarters building and he doesnt do a whole lot. Unless I forgot something.

#9 Posted by kashif1 (40 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zuif Basi said:

I didnt really like any of them. I thought that the first one with Keaton was alright. I didnt like the Joker being the one that killed Bruce's parents. I absolutely hated the 2nd one. Walken was amazing as always. I cant stand Jim Carey so I saw bits of the 3rd one. I hated Two Face in it. I didnt mind the 4th one as much as most people do. I thought that Arnold actually did a good job with his limitted abilities. Plus Jesse Ventura was in it. Bane was horrible. But as Entropy has mentioned Robin was good. As for the Nolan movies I liked the first half of the first one. The second one was to long. It should have been titled The Joker. I fealt that Batman was an afterthought in it. Take out the scene where he breaks into the corporate headquarters building and he doesnt do a whole lot. Unless I forgot something.

A car chase an the action scene near the end inside that abandoned building. Plus he kept the police informed and interogated the Joker. He does a lot its just that Joker does more.

#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27223 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I will never give  Shumacher any type of complament I tend to agree that Burton's films where a load of crap as well

#11 Posted by cattlebattle (12271 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I think every Batman movie has its credible parts and ridiculous parts (except for B&R...that was just bad), I do respect Burton for giving Gotham City a great setting/set design , Even Batman Forever had its good parts
 
I have yet to think there is a penultimate Batman movie in terms of adapting the character perfectly.

#12 Posted by cosmo111687 (1488 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

Although I think every Batman movie has its credible parts and ridiculous parts (except for B&R...that was just bad), I do respect Burton for giving Gotham City a great setting/set design , Even Batman Forever had its good parts I have yet to think there is a penultimate Batman movie in terms of adapting the character perfectly.

Pretty much this. Also Burton gets points for bringing in Danny Elfman to do the score.

#13 Posted by Zomboid (740 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree. Burton's Batman was the first dark Batman film, and he definitely did good there. Jack Nicholson's performance as the Joker was amazing and a classic portrayal. Michael Keaton, while I wouldn't say his performance was amazing, still did very good as Batman as well. Most of all though I think Burton's film should be given credit for being the first media to really introduce the mass general audience to the darker and more serious style of Batman.

#14 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis: Must ... resist ... Grammar Nazi ...
 
Morseworsedoesn'tmakesenseyou'dbebetterofftakingoutthemore!!!
 
#15 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't we agree they both sucked? And quite hard I might add?

#16 Posted by UpUpAndAway (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Knight is my favorite superhero movie by far. Love every second of it. Yes, the old ones did suck. All of them.

#17 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zomboid said:

I disagree. Burton's Batman was the first dark Batman film, and he definitely did good there. Jack Nicholson's performance as the Joker was amazing and a classic portrayal. Michael Keaton, while I wouldn't say his performance was amazing, still did very good as Batman as well. Most of all though I think Burton's film should be given credit for being the first media to really introduce the mass general audience to the darker and more serious style of Batman.

Yeah i'll give it credit for that but Nicholson's Joker was an overweight moron.

@Gambit1024 said:

Can't we agree they both sucked? And quite hard I might add?

Agreed.

#18 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Which actor's portrayal of Bruce did you like the most?

#19 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

@entropy_aegis: Which actor's portrayal of Bruce did you like the most?

Bale,even thought Kilmer was okay.

#20 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Bale was my favorite followed by Keaton.

#21 Posted by joshmightbe (24083 posts) - - Show Bio

Nolans Batman> Burtons Batman>Adam West Batman> Crazy dude from my home town who thinks he's Batman> Schumacher Batman

#22 Posted by Trodorne (2569 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect: lol on the contrary something being worse would be like a wood bridge rots and collapses, while more worse could be a wood bridge incinerates and kills about 50 puppies and bunnies.
#23 Posted by joshmightbe (24083 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry but I have to say, the title of this thread is grammatically horrifying.

#24 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Nolans Batman> Burtons Batman>Adam West Batman> Crazy dude from my home town who thinks he's Batman> Schumacher Batman

Aww come on,Forever was'nt that bad.Kilmer had the best suit,the best fight scenes and the hottest girl.

#25 Posted by joshmightbe (24083 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Ok Forever was equal to Adam West's version but Batman and Robin wasn't just the worst Batman movie its one of the worst movies ever made in general

#26 Edited by The_Tree (6394 posts) - - Show Bio

I think every Batman director has their faults. With that said, my favorite Batman movie is Burton's first.

#27 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Had Batman Forever used the atmosphere of Burton's films, it would have been the best of the older Bat-films.  
  
I like Batman Returns, that's the only one of the 89-90s Batman live-action films that I like, and that's mostly due to how the Penguin, who is and was a joke villain, was a completely terrifying mother****er. I could have done without the sex jokes though. 

#28 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Had Batman Forever used the atmosphere of Burton's films, it would have been the best of the older Bat-films. I like Batman Returns, that's the only one of the 89-90s Batman live-action films that I like, and that's mostly due to how the Penguin, who is and was a joke villain, was a completely terrifying mother****er. I could have done without the sex jokes though.

Yeah and they should've cancelled out Two-face too..

#29 Posted by Aiden Cross (15510 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@joshmightbe said:

Nolans Batman> Burtons Batman>Adam West Batman> Crazy dude from my home town who thinks he's Batman> Schumacher Batman

Aww come on,Forever was'nt that bad.Kilmer had the best suit,the best fight scenes and the hottest girl.

Bat nipples?....

#30 Posted by entropy_aegis (13551 posts) - - Show Bio
@Aiden Cross said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@joshmightbe said:

Nolans Batman> Burtons Batman>Adam West Batman> Crazy dude from my home town who thinks he's Batman> Schumacher Batman

Aww come on,Forever was'nt that bad.Kilmer had the best suit,the best fight scenes and the hottest girl.

Bat nipples?....

Looks fine to me,you're thinking of Clooney. 
#31 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

Love the Burton ones as much as the Nolan ones, Forever? Yeah it's good. If you view Batman and Robin as a cinematic interpretation of the 60's series (and nothing more) it becomes slightly more watchable.

#32 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

@joshmightbe said:

Nolans Batman> Burtons Batman>Adam West Batman> Crazy dude from my home town who thinks he's Batman> Schumacher Batman

Aww come on,Forever was'nt that bad.Kilmer had the best suit,the best fight scenes and the hottest girl.

Agreed. I really dug the last suit he pulled out to go take on Two-Face and Riddler. The sonar-equipped one. Plus, Val had the most believable Batman voice. It's how I always imagined Batman to talk.
Albeit, Bale's Batman Begins voice wasn't half bad. He just went over the top in The Dark Knight.
#33 Posted by firesnake1 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

The tone and attention of the Burton, Schumacher, and Nolan films are all much different from one another. I think that makes it difficult to choose which is the worst or even the best. And don't forget that there's the whole Adam West Batman movie out there. Burton's movie was more cerebral, dealt with the detective aspects ... which greatly appealed to me. Schumacher's version was too much like the Adam West Batman, way too much camp, just Batman for the sake of marketing. Nolan's Batman gives a more action-oriented character, we get to see his cunning and inventiveness. I think Schumacher killed the Batman franchise in the 90s. I can't decide between Burton and Nolan ... they both show characteristics I love in the character.

#34 Posted by daredevil21134 (9029 posts) - - Show Bio

I LOVE BATMAN FOREVER!!!!!

#35 Posted by BATPANEXE (51 posts) - - Show Bio

everyone's entitled to their opinion, including the majority
 
" Suit me up Uncle Alfred! Tee-hee! " ^O^

#36 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

BOTH were terrible.  
 
Except for the '89 Batman movie. That I liked. I actually think the people going out to get the money was a good portrayal of how greedy and stupid people can be. (In a sense)

#37 Posted by Mr. Dead Pool (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

@kashif1 said:

nah, Burton's movies are a bit too cold but Shumacher took it to far in the opposite direction. Also Batcriditcard

#38 Posted by TheRedRobin96 (334 posts) - - Show Bio

I have not seen any one complain about Nolans version. Burtons version was kind of cool but after the 2nd it sucked and Schimacher is cool but it is the least of my favorites.....

#39 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale has portrayed the best Bruce Wayne. Michael Keaton to date has portrayed the best Batman. Period.

#40 Posted by Owie (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd go for the Adam West show any day. One of the best TV shows ever. Although I can tell it's not getting a lot of love here. But it's just trying to do a different kind of thing than most comicbook shows.

I haven't seen any of the old Batman movies in years upon years, and I'm sure nostalgia plays a part in my memories of them. But I do think Burton gets tons of credit for what he did for trailblazing the superhero movie genre in the contemporary era. He did a great job with the sets, mood, music, and more important than anything, he took Batman seriously. His movies directly jump started a huge marketing campaign of comics in the mainstream, people immediately started wearing Batman t-shirts, it was a huge deal in terms of bringing comics into the mainstream culture. The outside world took the drama of comic book heroes seriously for the first time. Superman doesn't count--that was too clean and straight. Burton delved into the psychosis of what drives a hero to be a hero, and that was great.

#41 Posted by Icarusflies (12246 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Burton's. Sure, it wasn't really traditional Batman, but it was fun. Schumacher's was just painful to watch.

Moderator
#42 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadow_Thief said:

Sorry, but Shumacher lost me the moment he put Arnold in a lab coat and expected me to take it seriously.

LOL
 
Poison Ivy had some of the most ridiculous weave/wigs I've ever seen in a movie.  Remember the "horns"?
#43 Posted by muhabba (283 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the first Burton movie. I think of the 1st Burton like the X-Men movies. They are a version. You're not catching the movie X-Men in the comics. They brought a version of the X-Men to the screen, not just the comic character. I think Burton brought a very good version of Batman to the screens. The second Burton movie was just out there spiraling around. The next movies just lost the spirit and it is said that Schumacher was trying to bring back the campy spirit of the Batman TV show and they just didn't merge well with the darker tones Burton brought. The Nolen Batman movies are more about urban realism than the dark fantasy of Burton and then the lighter fantasy of Schumacher. It all just depends on the flavor you're interested in.

#44 Posted by kashif1 (40 posts) - - Show Bio
@RedheadedAtrocitus said:

Bale has portrayed the best Bruce Wayne. Michael Keaton to date has portrayed the best Batman. Period.

your forgetting kevin conroy who did better at both
#45 Posted by .Mistress Redhead. (27082 posts) - - Show Bio

NO.

#46 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio
@kashif1 said:
@RedheadedAtrocitus said:

Bale has portrayed the best Bruce Wayne. Michael Keaton to date has portrayed the best Batman. Period.

your forgetting kevin conroy who did better at both
+10 internets for you.
#47 Posted by DEGRAAF (7810 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly believe Nolan's has been the best by far of all Batman movies and i would i still would love them even if the first one had a Lazarus pit and the second one had laughing gas or a flower that shoots acid.

#48 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

@kashif1: Voicewise, sure, I'll accept that. But voice acting and actual physical acting are two different things in all honesty. Yes, when it comes to voice, Kevin Conroy is the most successful Batman actor to date. But that's akin to saying that Mark Hamill is the best Joker to date as well whereas people are mixed on just which physical actor portrayed the Clown Prince of Crime the best.

#49 Posted by .Mistress Redhead. (27082 posts) - - Show Bio

@DEGRAAF said:

I honestly believe Nolan's has been the best by far of all Batman movies and i would i still would love them even if the first one had a Lazarus pit and the second one had laughing gas or a flower that shoots acid.

I don't remember a Lazarus Pit... o_O

#50 Posted by DEGRAAF (7810 posts) - - Show Bio

@.Mistress Redhead.: no they werent in there, i was say if he put them in there i would still think they were the best batman movies