Batman 33 discussion SPOILERS

How do you feel about Bruce's "happiness"? I dislike it quite a lot. I think a Snyder missed horribly on this one.

Wasn't a fan at all.

What is Bruce's "happiness"?

What happened? SPOIL ME

@onemoreposter:

To sum it up, Bruce, when he was younger, admitted himself into arkham, paid somebody to pretend to be Alfred and had EST administered to himself in order to, "...be rebooted. Started over. I wanted them to shock me until I was someone else." Ute apparently he realized that being Batman would keep him happy and doing this "crazy thing that would keep me from going crazy..."

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I assume this is what eh is referring to.

Eh, silly.

Yeah I can't say I like it. I'm a big Snyder fan and really enjoyed how menacing his Riddler was but I don't like his interpretation of Bruce Wayne's early years. It's realistic that he would suffer from PTSD but still...

Bruce Wayne always struck me as an eccentric but exceptional man even as a child, so the moment his parents were shot down in front him him, he made a solemn vow to rid the crime that took away his parents and so that no one else had to suffer such a loss. I liked the fact that even as a kid he did not become a victim of his grief like so many people do, but used that terrible pain to become something greater. That dedication to his crusade... it's inspiring. Snyder's Bruce Wayne is more haunted by his parent's deaths rather than driven.

I also dislike how being Batman gave him "happiness" and that he could never let go of his mission. Being Batman should be more of a feeling of moral obligation and duty to his parents for Bruce Wayne I feel. He'd get personal gratification in knowing that he's responsible for keeping the city as safe as possible but never "happy". As mentioned before I did not like how it clearly stated that it's not possible for Bruce to move on from being Batman. I like how in the pre-52 there are brief snippets, primarily with his interactions with Dick and Selina that it's possible for him to be happy and content, to move on with his life. It's unlikely... but maybe.

It's probably why I didn't care for Batman Beyond since it depicted Bruce as a grumpy old man living by himself, ostracizing most of the bat family and still fighting crime. At that point, his obsession which was once his greatest strength became his downfall ... which is both poetic and tragic keeping with the "dark knight " theme ... but still i hated that lol. I like to think there's a distinct possibility for a happy ending for Bruce and probably why I loved TDKR lol. That's my take on Batman at least.

So does batman get the official new 52 suit in this issue?

@thebakeboss: nope.

How can you people not like it? That's always how its been like with Batman. He will give up anything for Gotham. Talia, Catwoman, it doesn't matter. Being batman comes first. That's how it has always been.

@jayc1324:

That's not what I have a problem with. I have a problem with Bruce wanting to be erased. That isn't how I understand Bruce Wayne. Bruce, in my estimation, is a man that was set on a very clear mission since the night he watched his parents bleed out. Not someone who just fell apart mentally and emotionally. Not someone stupid enough to believe EST is the way to fix his problems. That's just not how I'd write it. That ruined the entire arc for me.

It was amazing. I loved it. The idea that Batman is what keeps Bruce sane. Snyder hit it out of the park, IMO.

@jayc1324: I really did enjoy the first Zero year volume but I just didn't like how Bruce is portrayed as emotionally fragile. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste, since you can't say Snyder's story is terribly written. He's always had interesting concepts and crisp, engaging dialogue imo.

I actually like that Bruce Wayne is almost completely taken in by the persona of the Batman and that the majority of the time he puts the needs of Gotham ahead of his own personal desires and feelings. It makes the more tender, sentimental moments with characters like Dick, Selina, Alfred, Tim and so on more poignant since it's not Batman talking, but Bruce Wayne and not his playboy persona which is quite rare. Like in Knightfall when Bruce basically said in no uncertain terms that Dick was like a son to him or in Heart of Hush when he admits he is drawn to Selina and will always love her no matter what may happen in the future... it's great stuff

I completely agree with you. That's the Batman I grew up with.

Agreed. But I think Snyder's Batman is very much inspired by TDKR Batman, he needs the 'the bat' to keep him 'happy' rather than to fight crime.

And agreed. And I didn't get why Alfred turned down Julie, if he thought Bruce was going to be happy with her then why wouldn't he let her meet him?

@rustyroy:

Yeah that didn't make sense. I guess it's Snyder's way of saying Alfred loves Bruce enough to "let him go" or rather let him have his war. But it fell flat for me because Alfred wants Bruce to be happy and have his own life apart from batman. Even in Morrisons run where he admonished Bruce for using his gravelly Batman voice all the time.

@pperspectiveandreality: I don't follow batman but wanting to reboot himself seems kind off a lackluster story point.

Wait wait wait. So did Synder just ruin Batman? It seems like here the reason Bruce became Batman is because it keeps him from going crazy.... What happened to justice and all that stuff?

He was showing hints at it throughout his entire run,in fact all the way back in Black Mirror,it's the biggest reason why I dislike Snyder's Batman work.

@entropy_aegis: I think it's unfair to assume their exclusive to each other.

Why can't it be both? Sure, Snyder has now confirmed that Bruce is basically crazy and Batman keeps him on this side of the abyss. But "Batman" doesn't just mean tossing on the costume.

You also see Snyder's Bruce to have an enourmous devotion to the city, and to never quit. That's not an obsession with being "Batman", that's an obsession with serving justice and protecting what he loves the most.

So, it's both. Batman keeps him sane, but what Batman really is, is the devotion to Gotham and justice.

Bruce will always be near the fall...but that will never happen!...i trust Snyder more than most writters to write Batman.

@pperspectiveandreality: the only difference is the age it happened at, and the time it took him to decide to become Batman

Pre-52 didnt want to erase himself and he didnt pay someone to pretend to be Alfred. Those are two things that put me off of what Snyder did. That age diffierence is a big deal to me. Pre-52 it was an immidiate decision. It's great because the moment the Waynes die, Batman is born. Bruce lost his childhood and his life of peace all in that one moment. He shed a few tears and then the legend was born. IMO that is superior to Bruce being emotionally recked to the point of wanting to be erased. We can agree to disagree on this.

@pperspectiveandreality: fair enough :)

@pperspectiveandreality: At first I had the same thoughts. That Bruce was happy? Seriously? But then I thought about it. This is a kid who had so many problems going through his life, and he finally found what made him happy. Being Batman. It's never been done before. Never have we had Batman love what he does. Such a grand design for such a simplistic ending.

it didnt make any sense why he decides not to go through with the electroshock out of nowhere he just says eh i dont feel like doing this any more

@lordofthenorth: He didn't just decide "eh", he was deciding on if he wanted to start over his entire life, due to all the fears he had. He ended up saying "no, this is who I am, I will not run away", and ended the procedure. Then through all his misdoings as a child through his teenager years up to early adulthood, he finally found something in which he let go of his sadness and become happy again, something he hasn't experienced since that last night with his parents. This happiness was being Batman. Never have we seen Bruce love being Batman. Taking the role of Batman was always a duty, something we always believed he felt he had to do. This love of being Batman is a new aspect to Bruce. As for Alfred, Alfred knew Bruce would be happy by both a) being batman or b) marrying that chick. Either way, Bruce would be happy, and after making the tough decision, he let Batman become a symbol for Gotham of "never giving up no matter how many times you fail". (linking back to Bruce ending the procedure as well as the fails Bruce had against Red Hood [was that Joker introduction not perfect], Bone guy, and the Riddler). Scott Snyder just did something few have done, add onto who Batman is.

@riddlerzeroyear Don't forget that being Batman is something that makes Bruce happy, the most important part.

@pperspectiveandreality That was the young Bruce. Not the current Bruce. That was a Bruce who was so ****ed up from the images of his parent's death, and was so young at the time. Who could handle stress like that? But right before the procedure, he got his *** off the ground and stood up tall and said "This is my legacy, my life. I will not back down". Then he made the decision to protect Gotham, ended up getting the training, and gained something he never had before.Happiness. The happiness he felt from being Batman.

@phocracker: iam sorry but you must not have paid attention becuase the electroshock was before he decided to fight to change Gotham So my problem is the transition from him going from wanting to forget everthing and to wanting to fight to change gotham makes no sense its out of no where basicaly their is no reason WHY he wants to fight to change Gotham

and i disagree this is not the first time we see Bruce love being Batman Miller did that long ago in fact being Batman was the only thing that made him happy in TDKR in fact not being Batman made him so depressed he drank and put himself in positions that could cuase his death

Poor Julie Madison. At least she was brought into existence in new 52 though.