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#1 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't been keeping up with Avengers recently but the recent development in Superior Spider-man 6 made me question whether what happens in issue 7 will have any effect on the upcoming Avengers issues. I know its continuing for at least 2-3 issues in Superior.

So The Avengers have caught onto Spider-man killing and butchering his enemies (that first scan gave me newfound respect for Wolverine btw!):

The next arc is called AvSM so I just wondered if it was crossing over into the Avengers at all or whether it was self-contained.
#2 Posted by Teerack (6327 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh my god. Screwball :'(

I can't believe the Avengers know something is really off with him but haven't tried to figure out what...

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow.

#4 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

Epic, I want to see that fight.

#5 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-man can take on the avengers now?

#6 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

They are gonna have to bring him down hard

#7 Edited by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder said:

Spider-man can take on the avengers now?

Technically he already took them all on and beat them during Ends Of The Earth so providing he has prep he could take them on as he's already done it.

This is going to be brutal. Definitely on my pull-list. I wonder if Superior will bust out the mind control tech.

#8 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel: Really? Glad I didn't read that. Sounds like garbage. What is the point of a team to take on colossal threats if one hero can bring them down. Why not just throw spider man at Galactus or thanos.

#9 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

SMH at wolverine

#10 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder said:

@ChaosMarvel: Really? Glad I didn't read that. Sounds like garbage. What is the point of a team to take on colossal threats if one hero can bring them down. Why not just throw spider man at Galactus or thanos.

Otto Octavius (current Spider-man) took the Avengers on in Ends Of The Earth with prep and ended up putting them all under mind control using octo-bots. I think thats what Chaos is referring too. Otto just wasn't Spider-man at the time but I guess all his past feats as a villain still count as he is the same person.

#11 Posted by CptPanda29 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

OK Superior Spider-Man you've won me over...

I have to see this.

#12 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@CptPanda29: Just found some images looking round the net as well O.O:

#13 Posted by CBninja (162 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm excited for this. Il say it I've been enjoying superior spiderman.

#14 Posted by Teerack (6327 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder said:

@ChaosMarvel: Really? Glad I didn't read that. Sounds like garbage. What is the point of a team to take on colossal threats if one hero can bring them down. Why not just throw spider man at Galactus or thanos.

So basically what you're saying is the Avengers should be invulnerable and just have horribly writing where they never lose to anyone?

#15 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: Wow, twist words much? I never said anything of the sort. I said a team dedicated to global/universal threats shouldn't be taken down by spider-man.

#16 Edited by Teerack (6327 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder said:

@Teerack: Wow, twist words much? I never said anything of the sort. I said a team dedicated to global/universal threats shouldn't be taken down by spider-man.

But the Avengers usually beat all of their big enemies by planning. It makes a lot of sense for them to be beaten by someone who has a good plan. I mean you could really say the same thing the opposite way. Thanos and Kovac shouldn't be taken down by some humans and an Asgardian.

#17 Posted by Teerack (6327 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGodofThunder: I was kinda a dick in my first post. I'm sorry.

#18 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@CptPanda29 said:

OK Superior Spider-Man you've won me over...

I have to see this.

@DarkKnightDetective said:

Epic, I want to see that fight.

It's actually very well done. He doesn't just start out that aggressive but it escalates in a believable way.

#19 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: You make some valid points, lol.

#20 Posted by TheGodofThunder (598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: No prob. Tempers always flare easily on comic forums.

#21 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I'm actually really excited for Superior Spider-Man.

#22 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

Now I'm actually really excited for Superior Spider-Man.

Jump on board. Spock is way cooler than I thought he'd be. Spider-Man has been around for over half a decade and this is honestly a story I've never read involving him before. Can't say that very often.

#23 Edited by Clark_EL (2654 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor should solo.

#24 Posted by SpiderFan1 (35 posts) - - Show Bio

Prep yes.

No prep takes down Cap,Spiderwoman, and Black Widow.

Wolverine and Thor K.O him..

#25 Edited by captain_oblivious (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Don't worry. Tis but a flesh wound.

@clark_el:Yeah, lightning strike wouldn't be quickly avoided. Too bad the Avengers don't have anyone with mental powers. As smart as Parker and SpOck are, I don't think they're really prepared for any type of mindblast.

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

I always hated when the made one character fight the Avengers, because you know there is always one that could easily take him alone. Ock shouldn't even be able to beat Spider-Woman let alone hold his own with an Avengers team.

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#27 Posted by laflux (15934 posts) - - Show Bio

I always hated when the made one character fight the Avengers, because you know there is always one that could easily take him alone. Ock shouldn't even be able to beat Spider-Woman let alone hold his own with an Avengers team.

I feel he could beat Spider-Woman with his standard gear (maybe its the fan-boy in me), but as for the rest of the points you make, agreed.

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#28 Edited by Teerack (6327 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: Don't worry. Tis but a flesh wound.

@clark_el:Yeah, lightning strike wouldn't be quickly avoided. Too bad the Avengers don't have anyone with mental powers. As smart as Parker and SpOck are, I don't think they're really prepared for any type of mindblast.

Yeah you think they would have recruited a telepath after AvX. Like maybe Madelyne Pryor or something.

It sucks Moondragon is still dead.

#29 Posted by Clark_EL (2654 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

I always hated when the made one character fight the Avengers, because you know there is always one that could easily take him alone. Ock shouldn't even be able to beat Spider-Woman let alone hold his own with an Avengers team.

To be honest I think Slott severely downplayed Spider-man when he lost his spider-sense. Jess doesn't have a ton of great feats against people in Spider-mans league. in fact the best feats Jess had were when the skrull Queen took her place. She was beats then and I was pretty pissed when it turned out those great feats weren't even her. Even without his spider-sense Parker is still physically superior to Jess in almost every aspect. In fact given the morals difference between SpOck and Parker I would say Ock would have an easier time taking down Jess than Parker would.

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

To be honest I think Slott severely downplayed Spider-man when he lost his spider-sense. Jess doesn't have a ton of great feats against people in Spider-mans league. in fact the best feats Jess had were when the skrull Queen took her place. She was beats then and I was pretty pissed when it turned out those great feats weren't even her. Even without his spider-sense Parker is still physically superior to Jess in almost every aspect. In fact given the morals difference between SpOck and Parker I would say Ock would have an easier time taking down Jess than Parker would.

I think Spider-Man has been getting downplayed his entire existence, with or without spider-sense, but I don't think if he had it against Jessica he'd be able to beat her. Jessica's best feats weren't when Queen Veranke took her place, although considering Veranke was just a copy of Jessica, those feats belong to her. Her best feats are from her solo series and considering that Jessica herself is on Spider-Man's level, her villains were made to match her, so I think she has plenty of feats. Also Spider-Man whether it be Ock or Parker has no immunity to pheromones. Ock's lack of morals won't change anything. She's a better fighter and basically has the power to control him.

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#32 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Imo they were from Veranke. In her solo series her best feat was taking out Taskmaster and those HYDRA agents with that venom blast. All in all she wasn't all that impressive. Verenke on the other-hand beat the crap out of Logan IIRC, was able to hypnotize one of the wrecking crew (don't remember which) and seemed a lot more in control of her powers in general. I can't see how a comparison can be made between her and Pete when I can't think of anything that puts her on Spider-man's level of speed, strength, agility or experience.

Spider-sense seems to have a good track record against pheromones. Prior to Verenke using them they were never able to actually hypnotize someone hence the reason i'm disinclined to use her as Jess' feats as she displayed things Jess wasn't capable of.

#33 Edited by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@vance_astro: Imo they were from Veranke. In her solo series her best feat was taking out Taskmaster and those HYDRA agents with that venom blast. All in all she wasn't all that impressive. Verenke on the other-hand beat the crap out of Logan IIRC, was able to hypnotize one of the wrecking crew (don't remember which) and seemed a lot more in control of her powers in general. I can't see how a comparison can be made between her and Pete when I can't think of anything that puts her on Spider-man's level of speed, strength, agility or experience.

Spider-sense seems to have a good track record against pheromones. Prior to Verenke using them they were never able to actually hypnotize someone hence the reason i'm disinclined to use her as Jess' feats as she displayed things Jess wasn't capable of.

1.Skrull copies were exactly that copies. Veranke was identical to Jessica in every way. It was the same for Pym & Mar-Vell.

2.That wasn't her solo series, that was her origin miniseries, Spider-Woman Vol.1 I believe is 38 issues long and Vol.2 I believe is only like 12 because Maleev was burnt out.

3.Veranke didn't beat the crap out of Logan, she was startled when he was behind her so she shoved his claw into his throat. You don't think Jessica could have done that?

4.She hypnotized the Wrecker, the strongest member of the Wrecking Crew using pheromones, which is one of Jessica's abilities.

5.She may have seem more in control because you're comparing her showings in New Avengers to her showings in her mini where she was just getting used to her powers.

6.Spider-Man was there when she used her pheromones on the Wrecker. All of the Avengers were effected by it.

7.Pheromones have been used like that before Veranke used them. What she did to the Wrecker was make him feel an overwhelming feeling of love which is why he didn't attack her. She explains after Cage knocks him into Spidey's web. Cage & Wolverine also mention being effected by the pheromones. I know it was love that she was manipulating because Cage says "But I love my wife!"

8.Spider-Man's speed & agility are superhuman, same as Jessica's. He's not a speedster, so I doubt and superhuman agility doesn't have levels for skilled acrobats the way strength and speed would have levels. You agility is either regular human,olympic,peak or superhuman that's it.

To show you she's not slow this is Joystick vs. Speed Demon and then Jessica vs. Joystick..

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#34 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh terrific so now SpOck has beat up a couple of clown criminals. How wonderful. I am so not reading this issue for fear of how bad it'll be.

#35 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio


1.Skrull copies were exactly that copies. Veranke was identical to Jessica in every way. It was the same for Pym & Mar-Vell.


The same way Ben Reilly was identical to Peter but still had a more creative way of using his abilities and standard gear. Just because you're made in the same base image it doesn't necessarily you can't be better than the original in some aspects.


2.That wasn't her solo series, that was her origin miniseries, Spider-Woman Vol.1 I believe is 38 issues long and Vol.2 I believe is only like 12 because Maleev was burnt out.

Ah My mistake for some reason my mind was on that for some reason.


3.Veranke didn't beat the crap out of Logan, she was startled when he was behind her so she shoved his claw into his throat. You don't think Jessica could have done that?

Well considering the fight did go beyond a simple ambush yes.

@vance_astro said:


4.She hypnotized the Wrecker, the strongest member of the Wrecking Crew using pheromones, which is one of Jessica's abilities.

I am aware that her pheromones can be used to this effect but I believe humans have resisted Jess's pheromones in the past. There's this scan of her doing it to some policemen and them managing to snap out of it thats running round my head. I'll try and dig it out. While it is something she can accomplish I don't think using Veranke feats for Jess really apply as I explained in the first point.


5.She may have seem more in control because you're comparing her showings in New Avengers to her showings in her mini where she was just getting used to her powers.


Aside from the Veranke ones I don't recall many showings Jess has so its pretty hard to compare them.


6.Spider-Man was there when she used her pheromones on the Wrecker. All of the Avengers were effected by it.


True but it doesn't have the same damaging effects as say Daken's that actually distort your sense of perception. I'll address what I mean but this in the next point as they both sort of tie in.


7.Pheromones have been used like that before Veranke used them. What she did to the Wrecker was make him feel an overwhelming feeling of love which is why he didn't attack her. She explains after Cage knocks him into Spidey's web. Cage,Wolverine, & Spider-Man also mention being effected by the pheromones.


There is a very big difference between using them on wrecker and using them on Spider-man. Spider-man's spider-sense reacts to danger. Even if Jessica makes him fall in love with her his spider-sense would still force him to avoid her attacks due to the fact Spider-man's spider-sense overrides his mind. He's stated on numerous occasions that he has to force himself not to obey his spider-sense when he has too and its hard to do at that. As it automatically force him to move to danger whether he knows what it is or not as it shows in these to images:

Heck even Mary Jane has tripped off his spider-sense as has Tony Stark and all Tony was doing was trying to put his hand on his shoulder and Peter's reflexes kicked in:

Granted this was just after the "Other" so Pete was a little on edge however the point still stands. Tony obviously wasn't trying to hurt Peter in the slightest and yet his spider-sense still kicked in.

We've seen his spider-sense work through Daken's pheromones so even thought Jess's work differently I see no reason why his reflexes would not go into auto-pilot every time she throws a punch. Even if he's desperately in love with her we've seen Spider-man's spider-sense can and will over-ride his reactions especially if his mind is focused on swooning over Jess and not force-fully stopping his spider-sense.

Throw in the fact that his speed and spider-sense allow him to pull moves like this:

I find it very hard to believe that Jess is going to land a square hit.


8.Spider-Man's speed & agility are superhuman, same as Jessica's. He's not a speedster, so I doubt and superhuman agility doesn't have levels for skilled acrobats the way strength and speed would have levels. You agility is either regular human,olympic,peak or superhuman that's it.

True but there are still different levels of it. For example Daredevil has super-human agility but I would still rank Parker above him due to more impressive feats.


To show you she's not slow this is Joystick vs. Speed Demon and then Jessica vs. Joystick..

Joy Stick got taken out easily by Ben Reilly despite the fact he was confirmed to be less experienced with his powers than Pete and continuously made jokes about himself being out of shape (due to those 8 years of not using his powers). She has been easily taken out by both Ben and Jess that Speed-Demon feat seems to be someone high-balling her for plot-purposes.

#36 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Well at least someone is finally catching on to his completely obvious behaviour. As if the love of his life wouldn't be able to notice a difference in him :P

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#37 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 I want to respond to you but this new format makes me not even want to...

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#38 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 I want to respond to you but this new format makes me not even want to...

To be fair I had to motivate myself to reply as well lol.

#39 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

Well at least someone is finally catching on to his completely obvious behaviour. As if the love of his life wouldn't be able to notice a difference in him :P

Superior Spider-Man 2 was literally the worst Spider-Man comic I have ever read after OMD. I don't own the 90s Clone Saga or Sins Past and I think they're worse but in terms of the stories I own, that's one of the worst Spider-Man stories I have.

#40 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Superior Spider-Man 2 was literally the worst Spider-Man comic I have ever read after OMD. I don't own the 90s Clone Saga or Sins Past and I think they're worse but in terms of the stories I own, that's one of the worst Spider-Man stories I have.

I mean, it's not terrible by any means but it rips on continuity and character logic in every sense. SpOck was calling Mary-Jane "woman" for the entirety of issue 700 and she didn't take ANY notice to that? C'mon Slott you're drunk, go home!

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#41 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Superior Spider-Man 2 was literally the worst Spider-Man comic I have ever read after OMD. I don't own the 90s Clone Saga or Sins Past and I think they're worse but in terms of the stories I own, that's one of the worst Spider-Man stories I have.

I mean, it's not terrible by any means but it rips on continuity and character logic in every sense. SpOck was calling Mary-Jane "woman" for the entirety of issue 700 and she didn't take ANY notice to that? C'mon Slott you're drunk, go home!

That's why I didn't like it. The person who knows Peter best doesn't know when something's up? Utterly ridiculous. And I used to really like Slott's Spider-Man writing too.

#42 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

That's why I didn't like it. The person who knows Peter best doesn't know when something's up? Utterly ridiculous. And I used to really like Slott's Spider-Man writing too.

Well, I still like Slott's writing but in terms of current Spider-Man writers, he's at the bottom of the list for me. Both Bendis and Yost are doing better in my honest opinion.

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#43 Posted by Lvenger (19936 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

That's why I didn't like it. The person who knows Peter best doesn't know when something's up? Utterly ridiculous. And I used to really like Slott's Spider-Man writing too.

Well, I still like Slott's writing but in terms of current Spider-Man writers, he's at the bottom of the list for me. Both Bendis and Yost are doing better in my honest opinion.

Yeah I do too. But I wouldn't mind Yost taking over as Spider-Man writer. He's killing it on Avenging.

#44 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: He's doing a great job so far indeed! But honestly, I'm inclined to say I'd like to see Bendis take the reins as he recently wrote one of the best Spider-Man stories I've read to date.

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#45 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: As you obviously have some good arguments how would you feel about going against me in CaV :D? Spiderwoman Vs Spider-man?

#46 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@vance_astro: As you obviously have some good arguments how would you feel about going against me in CaV :D? Spiderwoman Vs Spider-man?

I'm down.

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#47 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Cushti! I'll probably make it now but I probably won't be able to partake until Saturday (Friday at the earliest) but that'll give you time to look over the op and tell if there's anything you want changing or don't agree with.

#48 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2145 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel: Really? Glad I didn't read that. Sounds like garbage. What is the point of a team to take on colossal threats if one hero can bring them down. Why not just throw spider man at Galactus or thanos.

uhh thats gonna happen iin infinty

#49 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

Well this feud with the Avengers doesn't end after issue 8! In July Yost takes the fight to the Avengers again:

This July, fan favorite writer Chris Yost pairs up with red-hot artist David Lopez to bring fans Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1! This all-new ongoing, launching during Superior Spider-Month, gives fans a whole new look into the world of Superior Spider-Man, great for lapsed and new readers alike!

There’s only one thing that’s on the mind of the Superior Spider-Man when he encounters the heroes of the Marvel Universe…how can he beat them?! First on his list? The Avengers! Everything changes as Superior Spider-man cuts loose.

Superior Spider-Man Team Up #1 takes fans across the entire Marvel Universe and pits Superior Spider-Man against heroes and foes you wouldn’t necessarily think he’d rub shoulders with,” explains Stephen Wacker, Senior Editor, Marvel Entertainment. “More and more people in the Marvel Universe are starting to sense a change in Spider-Man, and being able to see Chris put Spidey in those situations is going to have my inbox full of team-up requests! (So stay strong Songbird fans!”)

This July, Superior Spider-Month turns it up a notch as Yost and Lopez let loose in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1!

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN TEAM-UP #1

Written by CHRIS YOST

Art by DAVID LOPEZ

Cover by PAOLO RIVERA

ON SALE JULY 2013!

Looks like Superior is fast becoming a big threat.

#50 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (936 posts) - - Show Bio

It's like Batman in tower of Babel....contingency plans MADAFAKKA!!! MWAHAHAHAHA... but yeah seriously though, without Prep, i can see Spock taking out Cap, Spider woman?, Widow and wolvey (already beat his butt in Avengng Spidey i believe), he'll likely run away from Thor i guess.

Also, what are the chances of Bendis writing a 616 spiderman title? how many books is he on already? 4 to 6? more idk about probably