#1 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

When Ares eventually comes back would you like to see him defeat Sentry?

(This obviously implies Sentry would be alive as well)

Or do you think he would seek revenge?

#2 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't imagine anything better than Ares coming back and putting his axe through Sentry's neck. Maybe even if Ares and Loki teamed up to kill him and became an evil partnership.

#3 Edited by kgb725 (3418 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't happen. Sentry is to powerful

#4 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: Well it can as a writer can write what ever they like. Dr Octopus once defeated the Hulk.

#5 Edited by JonSmith (3818 posts) - - Show Bio

I could see him pulling it off by teaming up with Loki. Say Sentry comes back, and after the whupping he put on Thor in the past, Loki is concerned (given his current born again good nature thing), and decides, as Asgard's Secret Service, basically, to take out a major enemy of Asgard in secret.

To accomplish this, he plays mind games with Sentry, and engineers an alliance between himself and Ares by bringing Ares back to the dead. He accomplishes this by performing a favor for Hela, who in turn calls in a favor from Hades, who releases Ares. Ares, in turn, is indebted to Loki, and with the offer of vengeance on the one who killed him, agrees to help.

Loki weakens Sentry through various manipulations, playing on his mental weaknesses, making him as weak as possible, then sends in Ares. Ares takes him down in a hard fought brawl, and down Sentry goes once more.

Could be an interesting storyline, and Thor's reaction if he finds out, especially since Loki did it out of concern rather than mischievous malice could be a nice opportunity for character development.

#6 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith: it's like we're the same person.

You wrote what I was thinking. Only other thing I'd change is Loki even though I believe he wanted Sentry to kill him, I think Loki would also see it as revenge.

#7 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see Ares winning. He lacks the patience and foresight to plan to defeat someone like Sentry. That is what almost always holds Ares back.

#8 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: I think he can plan, he was in charge if Normans Siege on Olympus and if Ares didn't change his mind and Sentry didn't go crazy they would of probably won. Also this is why I said team up with Loki because he is far more patient and willing to think of every move before any action.

#9 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206: The SIEGE was a head on attack of the type anyone could do. That is about the only attack Ares uses. Heck, the other Avengers criticized Ares for using the exact same attack against Doom's castle. If they would have won it would have been thanks to the Hood's Gang empowered by the Norn Stones something which Ares knew nothing about.

A team up with Loki would only work if Ares had the patience and willingness to follow Loki's orders. As far a I know, Pluto is the only one Ares has willingly followed in the past. Loki, while more powerful than Ares, is not as powerful as Pluto. There is also the question if Ares could even kill Sentry. The primary reason neither Ares nor Loki have been able to kill Hercules or Thor is their brothers are so powerful it is almost impossible to kill them. The Sentry is just as invincible as they are if not more.

#10 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: Ares axe clearly wounded Sentry when he stabbed him. I can't see why he couldn't cut his head off in an ambush.

#11 Edited by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: Ares axe clearly wounded Sentry when he stabbed him. I can't see why he couldn't cut his head off in an ambush.

For starters Sentry is suppose to have super-senses so ambushing him would be difficult especially for someone like Ares. Then you have the variability of the Sentry's invulnerability. In most cases nothing hurts him. During SIEGE, Sentry traded absolute invulnerability for regeneration. Thor's hammer flew right through Void/Sentry's head and all the latter did was reform. I doubt cutting the Sentry's head off would do anything except annoy him.

#12 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: actually check it again, Ares stabed him in the side and for the rest of the comic you could clearly see the void or black substance of some kind constantly flowing from his side. Ares axe plus Loki illusions could deffinately mess him up.

#13 Edited by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: actually check it again, Ares stabed him in the side and for the rest of the comic you could clearly see the void or black substance of some kind constantly flowing from his side. Ares axe plus Loki illusions could deffinately mess him up.

Again, so what? The Sentry was transforming from the Sentry into the Void. The more damage Sentry took the more the Void came out. And the Void reforms with ease. Ares' axe did not do any significant damage. Molecule Man blew the Sentry apart and he still reformed. Ares has used a variety of axes, but none have been noted to have any special enchantments upon them. Loki's illusions mess Sentry up until Sentry starts killing everyone or Voids out. There is nothing Ares can do to the Sentry.

#14 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: I think your over estimating Sentry seeing as Thor killed him with some blunt force impact hits the likes off which others have survived.

#15 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: I think your over estimating Sentry seeing as Thor killed him with some blunt force impact hits the likes off which others have survived.

No, I am not overestimating Sentry. Sentry proved on multiple occasions that he can reform himself after being totally destroyed from any straight physical attack. Thor was only able to kill Sentry because Bob LET Thor kill him. Thor was ineffective against the Sentry before that. And it was a lighting bolt that finally did Sentry in because of it. What has Ares shown that indicates he can kill someone who can reform moments later from any attack?

#16 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: if I remember right, I'm going by memory here. Ares axe is adamantine (similar to Uru in magic aura, and stronger than adamantium) he has used his axe to cut holes in reality and did so when chasing Nate Grey. So I think his axe is pretty special.

Like I said going by memory and might need double checking.

#17 Edited by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: if I remember right, I'm going by memory here. Ares axe is adamantine (similar to Uru in magic aura, and stronger than adamantium) he has used his axe to cut holes in reality and did so when chasing Nate Grey. So I think his axe is pretty special.

Like I said going by memory and might need double checking.

This is a common misconception about Ares along with him having great magical powers or being an ultimate grand martial artist. Adamantine's only special property is it is supposed to be indestructible. To my knowledge it has never been mentioned to have any special properties or allow magic to be used better. That is a trait unique to uru. It is also unknown whether or not it is stronger than adamantium.

As for the ax, Ares has used several over the years and I do not recall it ever being mentioned to be made from adamantine. Some handbooks make mention of Ares or Pluto having access to adamantine weapons, but besides perhaps a very early appearence by Ares he has never used any weapon forge by adamantine. In the image below, Ares is battling Ultron from Migyt Avengers and his axe is shown breaking against Ultron's forcefield. If the ax was adamantine it would not break.

As for your other point, Ares has shown a couple of times to be able to break the laws of physics. Once when he followed the mutant Gateway through one of his teleports when Gateway said it should be impossible. Another the time you mentioned when Nate Grey let Ares when that fight. However, these instances are rare and as a whole Ares has shown poor proficiency of his other powers when compared to his parents, uncles or siblings. His was powerless to prevent Morgan La Fey from turning him to stone from what Doom referred to as a simply transmutation spell that he easily reversed. He was also powerless against Molecule Man whom Sentry defeated. Ares has never demonstrated any magic in battle save two instances I am aware of and both back from the seventies. Once he used an energy blast from his ax against Ikaris. Against Namor he once used his shapeshifting powers. But neither of these would help him much in battle against the Sentry nor allow him to injury the Sentry in a way to prevent him from recovering. So I don't see how Ares can do long-term damage to the Sentry let alone kill him to have his revenge.

#18 Posted by w0nd (2028 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: I think your over estimating Sentry seeing as Thor killed him with some blunt force impact hits the likes off which others have survived.

you may not consider this cannon, but the what if story explained by ripping the god in half sentry depleted his power by a large amount, killing a god does require a lot of power.... and because of this he was then able to be killed, but once again "what if"

#19 Posted by Dernman (14012 posts) - - Show Bio

If Ares does come back it should be alot more impressive than he has been.

#20 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: I think your over estimating Sentry seeing as Thor killed him with some blunt force impact hits the likes off which others have survived.

you may not consider this cannon, but the what if story explained by ripping the god in half sentry depleted his power by a large amount, killing a god does require a lot of power.... and because of this he was then able to be killed, but once again "what if"

I don't consider What If?s cannon. Given how short they often are writers take shortcut or are free to to almost whatever they want. In What If?s Sentry has been killed by Thor snapping his neck and BB's voice. Yet in mainstream he has survived far worse. Even if I take this into account I still don't see it mattering. Nothing I have heard yet indicates Ares can take any sort of vengeance on Sentry because he cannot permanently put Sentry down.

#21 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: all this is irrelevant, my point was would you like to see it happen. We would not be the writers who need to think up a way to do it.

#22 Posted by God_Spawn (35982 posts) - - Show Bio

If he put his axe through his neck, Sentry would just come back and rip him in half again. Bye bye Ares.

Moderator
#23 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: all this is irrelevant, my point was would you like to see it happen. We would not be the writers who need to think up a way to do it.

No, it is not irrelevant. The discussion had moved to a proposed scenario of Ares having his revenged and that it is impossible because Ares lacks the means. Moving back to the original point it is still relevant. Your original post was about Ares returning to the mainstream universe. The responses in this thread about Ares being unable to kill Sentry are on the "No, we do not want to see Ares return and defeat Sentry or have his revenge because he lacks the power and it would not make sense." Yes, a writer can do anything in comics, but most people accept that even within the story there are some basic rules one has to follow for internal logic's sake. Captain America cannot suddenly start flying without Superman because it would make no sense. Dr. Octopus knocking out the Grey Hulk makes little sense which is why most people rank it as a low showing or bad showing. It severely stretches the suspension of disbelief. However, it is still somewhat probable that it could happen. The attack was a physical attack and the Hulk's own power dynamic makes his strength vary widely. Sometimes even the strongest person can be koed by a sucker punch. However, the gap between Sentry and Ares is much, much larger. Ares has never displayed the power or brains to have any sort of revenge on the Sentry without the Sentry tearing him apart. Ares is the guy who decided to trust a semi-reliable source that his son was in danger, rescue his son with no intelligence or backup, and ride a giant bomb into battle letting everyone know he was there. So again Ares has having any sort of revenge would not work within the context of mainstream stories like your original post was referring to.

#24 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: so it would be unreasonable for Ares to have an enchantment on his axe and kill him. Magic seems to beat all in comics, if Hades enchanted it with a spell that causes instant death on contact with the blade.

#25 Edited by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: so it would be unreasonable for Ares to have an enchantment on his axe and kill him. Magic seems to beat all in comics, if Hades enchanted it with a spell that causes instant death on contact with the blade.

Given what I know of Sentry, what I know of Ares, the relationship between Olympians, the general pecking order of the MU, and magic in the MU yes I consider it unreasonable. Olympians in general do not seem to care much for each other. Pluto would only aid Ares if he could get something out of it in return. So Ares would first have to swallow his pride to ask Pluto for such a weapon or be willing to make a deal. Beyond that there is the question of what Sentry is. His origins go anywhere from a random accident to the angel of death to some sort of cosmic entity. Neither Molecule Man nor Morgan La Fey could kill him. the former at least is usually one of the most powerful non-cosmic entities in the universe. The latter's power is almost on par with someone like Thor is not higher. It would not be a stretch to me to say Sentry is somehow beyond Pluto's ability to kill. Magic does generally beats all in comics, but if the writer uses it the wrong way it feels like something they pulled out of thin air. Aunt May reading a spell out of an old book that lets her trap Zeus easily comes off as just plain wrong since she has no training or knowledge of the subject. A simply Asgardian enchantment allowing one to kill an Celestial comes off as wrong considering what Celestials have shrugged off in the past when Odin tried to defeat them. Magic has to make some sense in the context of the story otherwise it is simply too easy and too much of a short cut for a writer to use.

#26 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: wasn't Sentry once defeated by Human torch setting him on fire (I haven't read the comic but I'm sure I've seen scans) also doesn't Sentrys power level fluctuate a lot depending on his mentality or how much the void is in control. In my opinion, the God of the underworld and death being able to create a grim reaper touch of death spell I don't think to much if a stretch but I see your point and I think it's just opinion in that part.

#27 Posted by SC (11960 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely could be fun, and these are fictional characters. Thing started off being five tons, Sentry's creator viewed him around Black Bolt level, oy vey, half of Sentry's writing by Brian Michael Bendis happened because he decided to use Sentry for his final act of his three part Avengers trilogy instead of Scarlet Witch. Shaman Nate probably has more impressive feats than Sentry and him and Ares had a great fight because again fictional characters. Characters powers change all the time. I think it could be a great story for Ares and Sentry both some time in the future… but I think it would have to be a far ways in the future and I think would work better with Sentry as a hero and and in an ongoing series with a more stable depiction as far as writing. Except I also would rather get Ares back as soon as possible.

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#28 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: wasn't Sentry once defeated by Human torch setting him on fire (I haven't read the comic but I'm sure I've seen scans) also doesn't Sentrys power level fluctuate a lot depending on his mentality or how much the void is in control. In my opinion, the God of the underworld and death being able to create a grim reaper touch of death spell I don't think to much if a stretch but I see your point and I think it's just opinion in that part.

To my knowledge no that never happened. The Sentry's power level has sometimes been indicated to fluctuate based on his mental stability. Basically, the more power Sentry calls upon the less in control he has of the power. However, even at his most basic he is still so far above Ares in power that Ares' would have very little chance of even touching him. The Sentry during SIEGE was already have way crazy and in Void mode. Again, we don't know if the Sentry can even die in a way Pluto controls. The Sentry's latest return he stated the Void got tired of dying and ressurecting in the sun and so he left. This Sentry is so brain addled that could be made up or it could mean the Sentry is truly immortal and only stays dead when he wishes it. Certain advanced beings like the Watchers have shown death is vastly different for them than most other beings. Some Watchers once died then "willed" themselves back to life. So it is impossible to say if any curse from Pluto would work.

#29 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: google Human torch vs Sentry then look at images.

I don't know the context of the image.

#30 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio
@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: google Human torch vs Sentry then look at images.

I don't know the context of the image.

I googled the image. I am not familiar with the context either. The image I found states it is the original android Human Torch and not the one from the FF. Just to make sure, is this the image you are talking about:

If this is the image it looks like the fire itself is not harming the Sentry. Somehow, the Human Torch has gotten the Sentry to absorb some of his power or at least think he has and is playing off the Sentry's inability to control his higher levels of power to get him to run away. The Sentry's weakness has always been his own mental instability. Physically he is virtually unassailable, but he is mentally so weak that sometimes all you have to do was turn into the Void and yell "Boo!" and he would run away at least until he got his act together. The danger of this is if the Sentry calls upon too much power or gets too wacked the Void risk coming out and he is NOT mentally unstable. In reality, the writers made the Sentry too powerful. He cannot be used in any story so he has to be conveniently removed. This brings ups back to the problem that Ares prefers straightforward physical attacks which will not work on the Sentry and any mental attack risk pushing Sentry over the edge to the point where he may Void out and rip the God of War in half again.

#31 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: yes that's the image. Like you said mentally he is quite easy to manage, Emma Frost dealt with him and after a quick chat he refused to fight X-man and I can't remember properly but I think he fled from the Skrulls because they blamed him or something. My point being he isn't completely untouchable and has a weakness. Whether Ares being able to exploit this would be very much down to the creativity to the writer.

I think Ares will be sh!t scared of the void on his return.

#32 Posted by youmessinwithme (1102 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes I would love to see that.

and we've already seen the axe can cut Sentry/void.

#33 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol this is funny. Ares is a badass there is no denying that but he is no where near the level sentry is on. The only gods out side of the sky fathers that could take on the sentry are Thor and Herc.

#34 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: I agree but I have said I think with a partner helping like maybe Loki or Hades I don't think it would be impossible.

#35 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206: Sorry I stand by my answer ares can never beat the sentry.

#36 Posted by w0nd (2028 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@z3ro180: I agree but I have said I think with a partner helping like maybe Loki or Hades I don't think it would be impossible.

Would he partner up though? He is a very prideful person

#37 Posted by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd: He has done before with Hades also the Enchantress. He has worked as part of a team aswell so I wouldn't be surprised.

#38 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: yes that's the image. Like you said mentally he is quite easy to manage, Emma Frost dealt with him and after a quick chat he refused to fight X-man and I can't remember properly but I think he fled from the Skrulls because they blamed him or something. My point being he isn't completely untouchable and has a weakness. Whether Ares being able to exploit this would be very much down to the creativity to the writer.

I think Ares will be sh!t scared of the void on his return.

Yes, Sentry has a weakness, but I don't think Ares can take advantage of it. That would require too much thinking and he prefers to leave that area of warfare to Athena.

@z3ro180 said:

Lol this is funny. Ares is a badass there is no denying that but he is no where near the level sentry is on. The only gods out side of the sky fathers that could take on the sentry are Thor and Herc.

Eh, I question how much of a badass Ares is when in action. There is no denying that he is supposed to project the image of a badass, but in myth he was always a paper tiger. He is a bit less so in Marvel, but his less than stellar record does not do him any favors. He is plenty strong against things weaker than him, but once he is up against threats his level or higher he has never impressed me.

@westy206 said:

@w0nd: He has done before with Hades also the Enchantress. He has worked as part of a team aswell so I wouldn't be surprised.

The questions is how does Ares go about getting a teammate. He can work with Pluto because the latter is more powerful than him and offers him targets that he hates. IIRC, he worked with Enchantress because she seduced him and again pointed him at targets he hates. Stark too played to Ares' ego, love of war, and desire for respect. Ares would have to find someone that hates Sentry enough to work with Ares and be willing to risk the wrath of the Sentry on top of being able to actually hurt him.

#39 Edited by westy206 (556 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: doesn't need to be someone who hates Sentry. Many demons and such like to have errand boys and seeing as Norman had him under control and now the apocalypse twins do it wouldn't be to hard to believe one of the demons fancied him to be there champion/slave/herald/trophy or host body.

#40 Posted by seekquaze (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

@seekquaze: doesn't need to be someone who hates Sentry. Many demons and such like to have errand boys and seeing as Norman had him under control and now the apocalypse twins do it wouldn't be to hard to believe one of the demons fancied him to be there champion/slave/herald/trophy or host body.

I am not sure what you are referring to? What does this have to do with Ares finding a partner to try and take out Sentry? Yes, Sentry has been used as a pawn in the past, but you stated Ares wanted revenge which would mean killing Sentry not using him as a pawn. In a scheme to use Sentry as a pawn I do not see why anyone would work with Ares because he brings nothing to the table in that regard.

#41 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

Definitely could be fun, and these are fictional characters. Thing started off being five tons, Sentry's creator viewed him around Black Bolt level,

When has Sentrys creator wanted the Sentry to be around Black Bolts level? O_o

Do you have source for that? Because Paul Jenkins intended on and even stated that the Sentry himself is suppose to be more powerful than Thor and Silver Surfer. Again the writer himself said that. And the Sentry has always been written more powerful than Black Bolt.

So again do you have sources? Because I am just curious.

Ontopic:

Ares is not beating Sentry unless he gets an upgrade, because Sentry has always been written as more powerful than him, even BEFORE Siege.

#42 Posted by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

#43 Posted by SC (11960 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first: Not off hand sorry. Like two years ago I use to be able to google Paul Jenkins interview and Sentry and it would come up with a lot of different interviews with him, but I do it now and it just comes up with VS and Battles threads by fans 0_0. Its no surprise though, Jenkins is a big Blackbolt fan (is this because you don't like Blackbolt? Heh heh, its nothing to worry about, Paul Jenkins probably just rates the character higher than you do).

You might have better luck than me sifting through various interviews though. One day I hope to spend a day just re-looking for my favorite interviews of different creators, if I ever find it again I'll make a thread about it with links.

Moderator
#44 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

@king_stranglehold_da_first: Not off hand sorry. Like two years ago I use to be able to google Paul Jenkins interview and Sentry and it would come up with a lot of different interviews with him, but I do it now and it just comes up with VS and Battles threads by fans 0_0. Its no surprise though, Jenkins is a big Blackbolt fan (is this because you don't like Blackbolt? Heh heh, its nothing to worry about, Paul Jenkins probably just rates the character higher than you do).

You might have better luck than me sifting through various interviews though. One day I hope to spend a day just re-looking for my favorite interviews of different creators, if I ever find it again I'll make a thread about it with links.

No..No...Its not because I dislike Black Bolt, but because I just don't remember him saying that. That's all. I remember him saying Sentry is more powerful than Thor and Silver Surfer. I'm not excusing you of anything, I was just curious. Because I usually try to read most interviews by Jenkins due to me being a huge Sentry fan and trying to know more about the character as much as I can.

#45 Posted by SC (11960 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

Thats cool, I do remember Jenkin's comparing Sentry to Blackbolt. I also know/remember that he believes Sentry is more powerful than Thor and Hulk (ironically thats one of the few interviews I did bookmark and can find easily) but look at that, I don't even know a time he referenced Silver Surfer so even I probably haven't read all his interviews either heh heh and i have read/watched like about 20.

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#46 Posted by M3th (1771 posts) - - Show Bio

It be DOPE if tHey make a good story out of it tHat explains How Ares was able to kill Sentry like JonSmitH's tale.

June'sVeryOwn