Looking around the Vine I find it really weird (see inexcusable) that the FF don't have a general thread for themselves, the X-Men have one, so does Spider-Man so why no FF love? Any way I intend to remedy that, so this is the thread to talk about all your Fantastic Four/Future Foundation related stuff. Do you worship at the alter of The Ben? Think the Human Torch is hot stuff? or maybe you just think Bentley 23 is the greatest character to ever grace a comic book? If the answer to any of these is this is yes then this is the thread for you.

Ok so it's an end of an era and Hickmans three year run has come to an end :( I'm pretty sad about this as Hickmans run was the best the FF have ever been, it was just that good, however I have read Fractions Fantastic Four and FF #1's and even though I was very sceptical (bordering on hate) at first after reading them, god help me, I actually kind of enjoyed them. So what does everybody else think?

Not a large amount of FF love on the site, but I am one of them. Hickman's run was great.

Unfortunately, I cannot support Matt Fraction and am not reading Fantastic Four or FF any longer. His stories are usually not that good and he destroys characters in the process of telling them.

@jloneblackheart: Yea there is a serious lack of FF love in these parts. Yea I was devastated when they said they where going to replace Hickman with Fraction as Immortal Iron Fist is about the only thing he's eve done that I didn't hate but my pull list cleared up and I decided to give them a look and they where actually pretty good, he stays totally faithful to what Hickman has done it doesn't even feel like theres been a shift.

I only picked up FF as an early tie-in to the main series, but after reading #3 I have to say I'm a believer. Allred's art is actually I nice change of pace from the other books I regularly collect.

Yancy Street with the Thing masks...too funny. Never read Hickman's run. Only Stan Lee and Jack Kirby Masterworks stuff.

Anybody else checking out FF/F4?

There must be more than this that read FF?

@jonny_anonymous: Fraction is on my blacklist of writers so I haven't gone anywhere near Fantastic Four or FF. A shame as I was really getting into Hickman's run 5 issues before he finished it :(

@lvenger: Why is he on your black list?

@jonny_anonymous: He's written loads of stories I don't like. Fear Itself, The Mighty Thor, Uncanny X-Men, his Iron Man run and his Defender series. Oh and I'm not a fan of some of his retconning in Fantastic Four like Ben being responsible for Doctor Doom. WTF? He can do street levellers like Iron Fist and Hawkeye and indie books well I guess but the other stuff, not so much IMO.

Yea I agree with all the books you have listed as bad (Fear Itself, Thor, X-Men, Iron Man) but I also agree with the good (Iron Fist, Hawkeye) and F4 and FF are both part of the good list, you shouldn't let his past failed books stop you from reading his present good ones, sure he's not great at writing Val and Ben creating Doom (kind of, he didn't really) isn't all that but FF and F4 are still great books that follow on from Hickman but with adding some cool new stuff like like Allred's art and Ahura joining the Future Foundation

He's just not a writer I can rely consistently on. I hear FF is better than F4 but what I've seen from the series doesn't impress me enough to buy it. Most of my favourite Marvel books aren't in a place I like right now either that I feel I can buy them. Wait, you said you weren't reading any DC or Marvel books. What gives?

I wasn't but I'v came out of my self imposed exile and only get The Flash and Green Arrow at DC and FF, F4 and Ult Spider-Man at Marvel

Well Flash and Green Arrow are supposed to be very good I hear. Still not sold on Ultimate Spider-Man though.

They are very good or at least Green Arrow is now *shivers thinking about Ann Nocenti* yea I do miss Ult Pete but Miles has grown on me an the book is much better now it's jumped forward in time and there all older also it's better than whats going on in Superior. But honestly you really should give FF and F4 a few issues just to see if you'll like it. What books are you getting right now?

I feel sorry for poor Catwoman being stuck under Nocenti's pen. I suppose Miles is a grower but I was never fond of the initial concept. Perhaps I might give those two a try in the future. As to what I'm reading:

• Superman Unchained (Surprised? :P)
• Thor: God of Thunder
• Wonder Woman
• Indestructible Hulk
• Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
• Batman and Robin #21-22
• Invincible #105 (To see what the fuss is about)

Give me a run down on the books, what do you like about each?

@jonny_anonymous: As you wish:

• Unchained is top notch in my eyes because unlike with Batman, Snyder actually looks under the layers of Superman and his supporting cast. He actually understands what Superman is about as a character and delivers on an intriguing plot that challenges and utilises what makes these characters great to their fullest.
• Aaron is actually doing a good job on Thor unlike his other work. There's a real fantasy/sci fi vibe to the title and Aaron's use of 3 Thors showcases Thor's personality over the years. And there's plenty of levity to compensate the serious, action packed plot.
• Wonder Woman is my favourite New 52 title (much to the chagrin of its haters) because Azzarello gives a build up story that prides itself on well written characterisation, excellent use of the supporting cast, a balanced viewpoint of the characters involved and very strong storylines.
• Indestructible Hulk is simply a bombastic, fun filled enjoyment to read. Waid captures the essence of Banner's character and gives him meaningful tweaks that change the status quo brilliantly. Everything that comics are about is encapsulated by Waid in this title.
• TMNT is awesome because it mixes classic characters from past comics and cartoons alike along with new characters with fresh spins, twists and organically executed interpretations that work amazingly in this universe.
• I did use to read Batman and Robin so I can tell you what I liked about that. The relationship between Batman and Damian was captured in a wonderful way that drove the heart of this book. And with this arc, we get to see Bruce lash out at his family over the death of his son.

Is that enough for you?

Hm it'll do lol :p the reason I ask is because I'v read some issues of all of these series and I just wanted your take (as well nefariously manipulating you in to continuously bumping this thread in the hope some other pepole will comment >=D)

• I did read the first issue of Unchained (stupid name) and all though I did like it, it never really wowed me like I was expecting it to.
• I hate Thor, I think the whole character is just, I don't know, bleh I suppose but I like Aaron's indy work and the first few issues I read of Thor seemed to be cool
• Yea I love most of Azz's stuff and his WW is great, it's more modern myth and less cheesy superhero and the pepole that are heating on it are just cutting there nose off to spite there face.
• Although my favourite version of the Hulk is the anger issues/Jekly & Hyde man on the run/Frankinstine's monster deal Waid's take is pretty enjoyable in the first few issues
• TMNT obviously great, like you said mixing different characters from different versions and mixing it all up in to one big ball of awesome whilest also keeping the fun/serious ration well balanced.
• I actually never got far in to this series after the new 52 started, I love Damian and it felt like he lost something in the reboot, like he reverted or something

@jonny_anonymous:

• Fair enough. I heard it wasn't for everyone.
• It's a really well written series and for fans of Thor, it's gladdening to see him get a nice treatment by a writer after what Aaron did to him.
• Exactly my thoughts too. Wonder Woman fans are a bit picky though lol.
• It's really enjoyable though some don't like Hulk's characterization
• I suppose so but I did enjoy Batman and Robin and he got a good send off by Morrison IMO.

For me now the FF and F4 are just dead.Fraction doesn't make the books an interestin read and the characters just don't show their true selfs for me.I dumped FF and now I am reading only F4 but I don't quite like what is exactly happening with the characters.I miss Hickman.

@lvenger: how do you think Morrison will end INC?

@jonny_anonymous: I saw your thread saying his final issue might pi$$ some people off. Honestly, I can't say. Maybe Batman will kill Talia, maybe he'll go through some quasi-mystical experience where he meets Morrison or maybe he'll have Batman dance the Bat Tsui to defeat Leviathan. Very few can truly understand the mind of Grant Morrison :P

@tdk_1997: Sure it's no Hickman, Hickman's run is one of the best FF has ever been IMO and it kinda pisses me off that the stories he's doing with the Avengers should be stories he's doing with the FF but Fraction's still good. What is it exactly you don't like?

This is true, he said what he has planed will destroy the concept of Batman but that could mean all most anything coming from Morrison. Imagine a book co-written by Morrison and Hickman :-o

I bought Waid's entire run a few weeks ago. Any good?

@jloneblackheart:

You didn't say anything when I mentioned that you to <_<

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@billy_batson: Waid's run is great, it has cool stuff in it like living maths equations

@jonny_anonymous:

Yeah, I heard it's good but that his take on Doom was a bit iffy/silly.

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Hickman killed the Fantastic Four.

Pretentious, untalented prick.

Have you read any of the current run? I know your not a fan of Fraction ether

@jonny_anonymous: The current Fraction run? No.

I read a bit of Hickman's, but I kept wanting to kill myself every time Valeria showed up.

@jonny_anonymous: Well Fraction can't write team books.The book started pretty well and I was interested in how Reed was dying or something like that I forgot already.And then they were just travelling through time and stopping things and the Thing made Doom who he is and stuff like that just piss me off.I want Fraction to make some big and interesting story that will make Sue,Ben and Johnny interesting again.And of course Franklin and Valeria are just too annoying right now and I can't understand why Fraction is writing them like that.

@tdk_1997: Well the whole family is dying and each stop-off they made through time/space is all connected because of Reed trying to search for what's wrong with them also Ben didn't create Doom he just blames him self for it . Yea Franklin and Val aren't as well written as when Hickman was on but there not bad. All in all I think FF is a better book than F4 but there both good.

@jonny_anonymous: I don't like much the idea of the whole family dying and them searching for what's killing them.I wanted Fraction to start with a bang and not this slow development and characterization.He often does that and I hate it.And Franklin here is the most annoying kid alive probably.I just can't stand him.

I don't see how he's that annoying, I mean, he doesn't even do much. What would you like to see happen in F4 then? Have you tried FF?

I want Fraction to do an arc in which he shows us why we should give a damn about his run and why this is one of the best Marvel teams ever.And yeah I tried FF but I don't remember why I dropped it,I am reconsidering things and I may try it again.

You should, at least give it a few issues more

@billy_batson: huh?

Your thoughts on Waid's run???
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@billy_batson: I actually only caught the end of it. It was OK.

And I thought you were a big FF fan.

At least I got for half the price.

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@billy_batson: Generally, I am. But I do fall in and out. There were a number of years I wasn't reading any comics at all, so I've missed some stuff.

So whats every bodies thoughts on James Robinson taking over?

What are the thoughts on F4 #1?

Personally I'm liking the direction better already than Fraction's. I've heard that Robinson is a great world builder, so he sounds like he'd be suitable for F4. That's what the original run pretty much did, built the Marvel Universe from scratch. I'm not fond of the "fall" idea so far, especially since it's still so close to Torch's "death" but it's still too early to judge and hopefully Robinson will change my mind.

@maccyd: I'm liking it but I hope they don't get rid of the Future Foundation now that it hasn't got a book since the concept is clearly dear to hickman since he introduced it in both his FF run and his Ultimates run.

@jonny_anonymous: I have really been enjoying Robinson's run on the FF, and am sad to see it end. He has done a great job of tearing down the team, but not making it feel malicious at all like you get from Remender or Kirkman.

I recently purchased the Fantastic Four Complete Collection DVD from eBay and have started working my way through from issue 1. I plan on writing a series of blog/reviews on the book through the ages. I will probably do the first on the first 50 issues or so. It is a great read so far (on issue 20). It is really cool because the books are scans of the originals so they have all the advertisements and fan letters from the early 60s. The fan letters are great and there are a lot of nit picky items of people complaining like you find on comic forums now. It's also great to see in the early issues, people are asking in the letters column for others to contact them if they have an extra copy of issue 1 and they would pay them 50 cents for it. I would gladly pay 50 cents for a copy of FF1 at the moment.

I'm really excited to see how the team develops and grows. I have read Byrne, Waid, and Hickman's runs on FF so I am looking forward to filling in the gaps between them.

@cap10nate: Do you think there will be a relaunch after Battle World?

@jonny_anonymous: I do. Barring something major happening at the end of Robinson's run or during Secret Wars that eliminates one or more of the characters, I have a hard time seeing them on the bench. They don't break sales records, but they are a consistent seller. It moved close to 500k issues in 2014 per the Diamond numbers (17th best of all Marvel books including the two events).

I do think there is a possibility of not all of them surviving the upcoming events. Reed is really the only one that plays an important role in the universe recently with his role in the Illuminati. If they want to make a big splash with a death at some point this year, the FF would be a logical place to pull that character. But looking at their business model of all these re-launches of titles, I can't think of a better way to get buzz going for the last few issues of this run and eventual re-launch of the next volume of the Fantastic Four than to promote it as the title is ending for good and then to pull it back from the abyss some day once the universe is put back together after Secret Wars.

Also, given that Hickman is writing Secret Wars, I bet he will utilize the FF if not just Reed and Sue pretty heavily that will lead to the eventual plot for the next volume.

p.s. -It's nice to see the Fantastic Four forum get a little more activity over the past couple days. It's sad that a thread locked four months ago is still towards the upper part of the first page of threads.

@cap10nate: Yeah Reed is Hickman's second favourite character (Doom is his first) so I'm sure he will play an important role in Secret Wars\Battle World. I hope they don't kill anybody off because we've seen that a bunch of times with the FF now. I can't imagine there will be no FF book when the movie comes out, even if it is't a Marvel movie. I mean they even did direct references to Daredevil when it came out.

@jonny_anonymous: They've already done references to the new cast

@maccyd: Yeah I know, I posted a thrad about that