Why is that Falcon is always hanging around Avengers and Avengers activities but he hasn't been a member in years? There are 3 Avengers teams right now? Why instead of having several members on two teams or adding characters like Beast,Storm,Red Hulk,etc. do they have certain members that are always around and not really doing anything? Now I know that Falcon isn't one of the most popular Avengers there ever was and his powers are kind of boring but he's a fictional character. They could add just about anything to him to make him more interesting, whether it be story related or ability related or equipment etc. Basically I just don't get why they have 3 teams but they are spreading the membership between characters that are technically not available and at the same time they have characters that have been Avengers in the past that they are totally neglecting.

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

Falcon has more right to be an Avenger than Rulk or Jessica Jones does.

I agree 100%. Not just Falcon but there are so many other former Avengers that I would rather see than Spider Man, Wolverine, etc on multiple teams, give me Black Knight, Falcon, Starfox, anyone but enough with the multiple team members

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

Falcon has more right to be an Avenger than Rulk or Jessica Jones does.

@President Stark said:

@Gambit1024 said:

Falcon has more right to be an Avenger than Rulk or Jessica Jones does.

There was foreshadowing to Jessica Jones being an Avenger in her origin story (Alias) and she's married to Cage so I understand why she's there. Why they would let "Thunderbolt Ross" in the Avengers..THAT I don't get.

Because he's actually useful?

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I agree that he should be an Avenger now. He is perfect for the Secret Avengers. Cap would have had him on the team. And anyone who says he sucks doesn't know the character. If Angel can be a Xman (before his change) then Falcon can be an Avenger. He was hand to hand training from Cap (which he showed some of as he took out Crossbones in Cap's return). He has tech from the Black Panther. And has more experience than many characters these days.

As for Rulk. His entire reason is for redemption and for them to keep and eye on him. He has the power and tactics.

But i totally agree with the notion of putting characters on more than one team when there is so many that can be instead of. I personally think its bad writing period. And overkill. Spiderman and Wolverine are in two Avengers comics, their own (Spiderman has several titles) and Wolverine is in Xman.

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

That's not an argument at all. It's just a fact. What I'm trying to understand is why the powers and attributes he has NOW have always been the same yet they were more willing to put him on the team before than now? Not to mention the fact that he was on the core Avengers team at a point where there was only one team. So if he's around why not allow him to be on one of 3 teams instead of spreading the membership around in a way that makes no sense?

Because, dude, they don't want to give him a slot just because they feel bad when they could have a Hulk with military training instead.

Because, dude, they don't want to give him a slot just because they feel bad 

 when they could have a Hulk with military training instead.

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

LOL Epic

@fodigg: Falcon also has combat training from Captain America and his telepathic link to birds makes him a great advantage in recon

He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

@President Stark said:

said:

Because, dude, they don't want to give him a slot just because they feel bad

Where out of my any of my posts did you get this?

From the implication that he deserves a spot because he's been around and hangs with them. That he's owed a spot because of their past relationships. That says "sympathy member" to me.

when they could have a Hulk with military training instead.

They don't even need him. If they actually spread the membership correctly, they'd be fine. Falcon also doesn't have to be on that team. There's 3.

So you would look at a military-trained Hulk, one of the most powerful beings in the Marvelverse, and say "pfft, we can just shift this roster around here a bit and presto, tell him to take a walk." And I wasn't just saying Rulk, but generally there are more capable heroes they can go with. You can nag on guys like Spidey and Wolverine from a "god I'm so sick of them" point of view but you can't argue they're somehow less useful than Falcon.

@Lonestar88 said:

@fodigg said:

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I think President Stark is asking why is it that no one has yet to come up with that "smashing idea" for Falcon. Instead of rehashing the same characters over and over, they should be coming up with new ideas for other characters. (Personally I think not just for Falcon, but others as well) In the end, it's just Bendis being lazy. Instead of relying on good writing to sell comics he just slaps Spiderman and Wolverine on everything because they sell no matter what.

If you have a great idea and it's new and fresh so you can apply it to anyone, why waste it on Falcon, a character nobody cares about, when you can apply it to a character you know will "sell no matter what?"

You can't dismiss marketability and popularity as if they were nothing. If the economy wasn't bad enough you have Marvel leadership slashing budgets and pinching purses like no tomorrow. The writers can't afford to take chances on reinvigorating a crap character unless they are someone like Brubaker or Bendis or another creator whose name will sell the book in place of a character name selling the book. I don't see that as "lazy," I see that as sound self-preservation.

I actually like the ultimate version of Falcon. I am not necessarily in favor of Falcon as an active Avenger, but I do agree that there is a lot of reduncacy in the Avengers titles. There is limited value in having the same characters in every mag. Sidenote: Falcon is due for a costume change. Maybe make his wings looks like red robin wings instead of the current feathery style?

@Lonestar88 said:

@fodigg said:

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I think President Stark is asking why is it that no one has yet to come up with that "smashing idea" for Falcon. Instead of rehashing the same characters over and over, they should be coming up with new ideas for other characters. (Personally I think not just for Falcon, but others as well) In the end, it's just Bendis being lazy. Instead of relying on good writing to sell comics he just slaps Spiderman and Wolverine on everything because they sell no matter what.

If you have a great idea and it's new and fresh so you can apply it to anyone, why waste it on Falcon, a character nobody cares about, when you can apply it to a character you know will "sell no matter what?"

You can't dismiss marketability and popularity as if they were nothing. If the economy wasn't bad enough you have Marvel leadership slashing budgets and pinching purses like no tomorrow. The writers can't afford to take chances on reinvigorating a crap character unless they are someone like Brubaker or Bendis or a creator name that will sell the book in place of a character name. I don't see that as "lazy," I see that as sound self-preservation.

Falcon was a member of the Avengers. There, now everyone is happy.

@Lonestar88 said:

Well I don't care about Falcon enough to staunchly defend him (I agree with you he's pretty boring), I just agree with President Stark's premise of creating new ideas for different characters. Mockingbird had a boring powerset too, then they turned her into Ms. Captain America, any character can become more interesting, that's what writers are for.Also, it is indeed hard times, so perhaps lazy was the wrong word, I should have used "boring" for that too. Because personally I find using the same characters over and over again to be just as boring as Falcons powerset. Unfortunately comics are in a rough patch so like you say, the writers can't afford to take chances. I get that, but it still sucks.

Indeed. In an ideal world, they'd have leadership that was more interested in growing their properties instead of cashing in on a handful of the better known ones. I just don't see it happening right now and I certainly don't see it in favor of someone like Falcon. I don't think I could stay sane in a wold where Wally West is being totally cut out of the DCU and Falcon was considered an A-lister. But hey, if someone came up with an idea that could change my mind about him and make him awesome, fine, but to do that they'd pretty much have to make him a totally new character anyway.

Falcon was a member of the Avengers. There, now everyone is happy.

From the implication that he deserves a spot because he's been around and hangs with them. That he's owed a spot because of their past relationships. That says "sympathy member" to me.

So you would look at a military-trained Hulk, one of the most powerful beings in the Marvelverse, and say "pfft, we can just shift this roster around here a bit and presto, tell him to take a walk." And I wasn't just saying Rulk, but generally there are more capable heroes they can go with. You can nag on guys like Spidey and Wolverine from a "god I'm so sick of them" point of view but you can't argue they're somehow less useful than Falcon.

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

From the implication that he deserves a spot because he's been around and hangs with them. That he's owed a spot because of their past relationships. That says "sympathy member" to me.

I didn't say he deserves anything. I just don't see why not? If he was a member before and he's the same character now. What makes now any different?

@fodigg said:

So you would look at a military-trained Hulk, one of the most powerful beings in the Marvelverse, and say "pfft, we can just shift this roster around here a bit and presto, tell him to take a walk." And I wasn't just saying Rulk, but generally there are more capable heroes they can go with. You can nag on guys like Spidey and Wolverine from a "god I'm so sick of them" point of view but you can't argue they're somehow less useful than Falcon.

There ARE more capable heroes they could go with but they don't. All I am saying is that if you have 3 DIFFERENT teams of Avengers and you have a character that constantly works with them hanging around. Why not put him to good use and make a roster of Avengers that makes more sense. I'm not saying they have to get rid of Red Hulk or that he's less useful than Falcon i'm simply saying that if they made better decisions about rosters there would be a spot for Falcon. I'm not arguing whether Spider-Man or Wolverine are more useful, that much is clear but they are already NEW AVENGERS. So why do they need to be on the main Avengers team?

"But why not?" is not an argument to put him on the team. He sucks, he's not popular, so he's not on the team.

he sucks plain and simple. 

Anyone who says Falcon sucks should really start reading Brubaker's run on Captain America, he handles Sam very well in that series and writes him as a great character As for Sam being an Avenger, I don't believe his character fits in with the main Avengers team, but I do think he would work well on the New Avengers as he is a street-level hero. I also think he would work well for the Secret Avengers as his powers would be very useful in recon.

"But why not?" is not an argument to put him on the team. He sucks, he's not popular, so he's not on the team.

 but I do think he would work well on the New Avengers as he is a street-level hero. I also think he would work well for the Secret Avengers as his powers would be very useful in recon.

He works as a secret Avenger

@President Stark: honestly, bro, I've just come to the conclusion that Marvel cares more about promoting the same, tired characters over and over again as opposed to doing what makes sense. If there's anything that I've noticed that Marvel's been guilty of it's adhering to the mantra that "Status-quo is god." And if not that they're just too scared to do an effective passing of the torch. I have to wonder why the Avenger teams have become dumping grounds for excess X-Men for example.

Because he's becoming the equivalent of Aquaman, which he shouldn't be.

I'm rather indifferant to Falcon. but I know I would rather see him in any Avengers book than Wolverine & Spiderman in every Avengers book.

@fodigg said:

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I used to think that way too. But I realized something eventually, if these writers are such good writers like they are touted to be, one would think they would be able to work with even the most stale of material in order to make it unstale in these current books.

But what I think it really is, is lame excuses, laziness of continuity and political correctness in comic industries these days until we get to the point of having Rulk, a Loeb (PA-TOOEY!) idea now being allowed to be an Avenger, and Ross was a scumbag before that, he still is now. If you're going to put Rulk in there, you might as well start putting Punisher in there or Baron Zemo or Doctor Doom in there just cause they've done some honorable things once or twice before in their past, I mean where do you draw the line? The Cap or Tony of 10 years ago would have never let Rulk in, now we're supposed to buy the redemption argument, just how has he and said character like this redeemed themselves? Please.

Yet, Sam has always been here. Falcon is an honorable man and a rightful Avenger who can be used in interesting ways if written right. His just due has been waiting for him for a long time, he just has to be given some chance to shine.

1 - He is not very popular

2 - From what I have read of the character he would not even want the spot anyways, he always seemed more interested in dealing with local crime.

I am on Falcons side on this. I always liked him. Why is everyone expected to have flashy powers?

Falcon could work on the Secret Avengers but then there are other perhaps more popular or more suited heroes on that team. Definitely not on the main Avengers team as talking to birds and flight may not be that useful against threats no single hero can withstand. Teams like the Avengers or the Justice League should stick to having heavy hitters or the best skilled in terms of abilities like intellect, strategising or combat training as these are the guys needed against large scale crises. And Falcon just doesn't fit that role, as great a character as he may be.

@OmegaHans said:

@fodigg said:

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I used to think that way too. But I realized something eventually, if these writers are such good writers like they are touted to be, one would think they would be able to work with even the most stale of material in order to make it unstale in these current books.

But what I think it really is, is lame excuses, laziness of continuity and political correctness in comic industries these days until we get to the point of having Rulk, a Loeb (PA-TOOEY!) idea now being allowed to be an Avenger, and Ross was a scumbag before that, he still is now. If you're going to put Rulk in there, you might as well start putting Punisher in there or Baron Zemo or Doctor Doom in there just cause they've done some honorable things once or twice before in their past, I mean where do you draw the line? The Cap or Tony of 10 years ago would have never let Rulk in, now we're supposed to buy the redemption argument, just how has he and said character like this redeemed themselves? Please.

Yet, Sam has always been here. Falcon is an honorable man and a rightful Avenger who can be used in interesting ways if written right. His just due has been waiting for him for a long time, he just has to be given some chance to shine.

The bolded portion. What? Where did that come from? And it doesn't matter if the characters on the Avengers are necessarily moral, just that they are interesting and entertaining. The struggle for redemption is more interesting me than "he's always been there."

@fodigg: @fodigg said:

@OmegaHans said:

@fodigg said:

@President Stark said:

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

That's the point I'm making. That doesn't HAVE TO be the only things attached to him..that's what writers are for.

Granted, but so what? That's not an argument for Falcon to be an Avenger, that's an argument for ANYONE to be an Avenger. Sure they could make Falcon not suck, but why? He sucks, so forget him.

When a writer comes up with a smashing idea to bring him back and make him relevant (e.g., Bucky Barnes), then put him out front. But until then, don't try to force it.

I used to think that way too. But I realized something eventually, if these writers are such good writers like they are touted to be, one would think they would be able to work with even the most stale of material in order to make it unstale in these current books.

But what I think it really is, is lame excuses, laziness of continuity and political correctness in comic industries these days until we get to the point of having Rulk, a Loeb (PA-TOOEY!) idea now being allowed to be an Avenger, and Ross was a scumbag before that, he still is now. If you're going to put Rulk in there, you might as well start putting Punisher in there or Baron Zemo or Doctor Doom in there just cause they've done some honorable things once or twice before in their past, I mean where do you draw the line? The Cap or Tony of 10 years ago would have never let Rulk in, now we're supposed to buy the redemption argument, just how has he and said character like this redeemed themselves? Please.

Yet, Sam has always been here. Falcon is an honorable man and a rightful Avenger who can be used in interesting ways if written right. His just due has been waiting for him for a long time, he just has to be given some chance to shine.

The bolded portion. What? Where did that come from? And it doesn't matter if the characters on the Avengers are necessarily moral, just that they are interesting and entertaining. The struggle for redemption is more interesting me than "he's always been there."

BoIded portion was a matter of opinion which rather I will refrain from further getting into if you please. But to your point, I must with respect disagree, I think the Avengers with the exception of the Dark Avengers have always been about integrity, virtue and proper justice and there is morals there and that is what makes them interesting and entertaining for the Heroic Age when they are faced with these decisions like superheroes do. The dissolving of the superhuman registration act was a new opportunity to help the Avengers become the true Good Guys again after years of blurring the lines.

We'll see if Ross redeems himself as you seem to think, he's done it before though and has a history of going back to villain tendencies when not satisfied.

@President Stark: I answer this in my post: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/how-to-make-falcon-as-popular-as-the-hulk/647447/

Let me know what you think!

because he is black. and america is racist. (the answer you wanted)

Ah, Falcon, Marvel's own Aquaman.

@fodigg said:

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

This this this this this.

Because he sucks. He has a glider and talks to birds. How thrilling.

The writers could have made Falcon as a security guard. =P

@The Impersonator said:

The writers could have made Falcon as a security guard. =P

wouldn't be a very good one...

@difficlus: I kinda figured. =P

because he is black. and america is racist. (the answer you wanted)

Well he is a reserve member along with Moon Knight & She Hulk.

Also: So a man who can summon hundreds of thousands of birds to attack his enemies & Has been Captain America's buddy makes him a useless character? Alright whatever floats your boat I guess

He was a member at one time, not sure of his status with them now, he really deals with street level thugs like he did in the 70's, like Cage, Iron Fist , Daredevil, etc....

ultimate sam wilson much much MUCH better , i hate 616 falcon , but ULT. version is pretty cool

Granted, Falcon's powers would work well on a team like Secret Avengers as his ability to communicate with birds makes reconnaissance very easy. But on the main Avengers team, having him fight alongside some of Earth's MIGHTIEST Heroes such as Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spider-Man, and Ms. Marvel he just doesn't bring anything new or even needed to the team. Heck, I'd go as far as to say that Hawkeye would bring more to the team than Falcon would, and all he does is shoot arrows.