Would you like the return of old-school Hellfire Club Emma ?

#1 Posted by Avenger85 (1972 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda miss the old snobby, evil Emma from Hellfire Club.

She would make an excellent villain for both Scott's team and Wolverine's team. But of course, she will need her telepathy back for that. Hopefully made even stronger by the Phoenix Force possession, which unfortunately is not the case right now.

I just don't like the soft, caring version of Emma we have these days. I liked Emma the most when she was a villain.

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#3 Posted by Avenger85 (1972 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: I think it can be done, especially with Bendis as the writer lol. Like she is quite mentally unstable due to the whole Phoenix Force debacle and just wants to get back to her "White Queen" status. Her bruised Ego is what makes her go back to her old ways etc...

I think Bendis can build upon this scenario....

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#5 Posted by Avenger85 (1972 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: Yeah you got a point there, man.

Anyways, that was just a suggestion I was making lol. This being written by Bendis, he has the ability to totally destroy decades of character building on a whim, so it's all up to him, but like you said, it does seem unlikely.

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#7 Posted by God_Spawn (38139 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Seeing as how it would contradict over a decade of character growth, and the majority of fans (and writers) would reject the idea, I'm gonna go with "no".

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#8 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Seeing as how it would contradict over a decade of character growth, and the majority of fans (and writers) would reject the idea, I'm gonna go with "no".

#9 Posted by Urban_Ronin (9935 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont see it as a contraindication at all to be honest. Emma suddenly reverting back to her evil ways is something a large population of fans have been speculating on ever sense she joined the X-Men. With the right story it could very easily be done. Especially after the entire Phoenix Force/Avengers vs X-Men storyline. My objection would be her diminished presence. As a "hero" she's in the X-Titles every issue (at least one). But as a villain her appearances would be sporadic at best.

#10 Posted by doddy (251 posts) - - Show Bio

NO

I loved the White Queen, she’s bloody awesome in the HFC era, but kinda cartoonish in my opinion. Bitchy, domineering, manipulative, cold-blooded… so many villains have been described like those too. What makes Emma unique and standout from other characters is that she has a lot of factor leading her into the dark side, but she’s still not falling apart. She has a huge dark side inside her, but she wanna change and is strong enough to save herself. That’s her heroism. Her moral ambiguity and the fact that she walks the fine line between hero and villain, which fans really love, perhaps would be kinda meaningless if she became a real villain. Recent Emma is kinda lame compared to Morrison’s and Whedon’s Emma, but it doesn’t mean she should go back to her original era. Being a villainess again perhaps means less appearance and less development of character. Being a relatively minor role in books for 2 months and then totally disappearing one or even two years? I don’t think anyone who really loves her would like to see her being devalued.

#11 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.
#13 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

Would definitely have to disagree with you there. Kieron Gillen did some wonderful work with her during his Uncanny run, and she was excellent in the most recent issue by Bendis.

Gillen's run was an abomination, and Bendis' work is carrying on with that standard. Emma has been woefully written since 500. She's a shadow of her former self, reduced to a pair of legs for male characters to fight over. It's pathetic.
#15 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: No, I'm definitely thinking of Gillen's run. I still have the bad taste in my mouth. 
 
Ironically enough the same can be said of shellfish.
#16 Posted by SC (13266 posts) - - Show Bio

No thanks, Emma was introduced in 1980, and I think X-Men should return to its best days of the 60's. Give me Zelda or Vera, those are real badass OG X-Men characters back when being an X-Man character actually meant something. You cool kids and your Polaris, Storm, Emma, Hope, X-23, Punisher and Vibe, damn you. **shakes fist**

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#18 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: Eh, guess not. 
 
No. But that run didn't desecrate my favourite characters like Gillen's repugnant crap.
#20 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: I don't mind Kurt. Archangel and Havok both suck.
#21 Posted by doddy (251 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

WE do care, obviz.

#22 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

WE do care, obviz.

Then don't buy any comic by Bendis. Once the hacks currently killing Marvel have their hooks out of her, she might become a character again.
#24 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: Well reviewed by simpletons, and sold to cretins. And they're only interesting to the type of person who felt that Avengers was a cinematic triumph.
#26 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: It's not insulting them if it's accurate.  And it is. 
 
And my pedestal is not undeserved. I know what I'm talking about, which is a tremendous rarity for anyone reading a comic these days. 
 
Take the reviews on here, a comic gets 5 stars if the reviewer knows who all of the characters are.
#28 Posted by doddy (251 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

WE do care, obviz.

Then don't buy any comic by Bendis. Once the hacks currently killing Marvel have their hooks out of her, she might become a character again.

Bendis’ Emma WAS actually great before (in HOM and Sentry arc), and her in UXM run is not bad so far. I don’t see how awful she is as a character (pales in comparison with her under Morrison’s or Whedon’s pen of course).

#29 Posted by Markus_Langbourn (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@ApatheticAvenger: It never started.
 
@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

WE do care, obviz.

Then don't buy any comic by Bendis. Once the hacks currently killing Marvel have their hooks out of her, she might become a character again.

Bendis’ Emma WAS actually great before (in HOM and Sentry arc), and her in UXM run is not bad so far. I don’t see how awful she is as a character (pales in comparison with her under Morrison’s or Whedon’s pen of course).


Incorrect. She was passable. And that's all people want from characters now, ACCEPTABLE MEDIOCRITY. HOORAY! Why strive to be better when you can be "not bad"!
#30 Edited by doddy (251 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@ApatheticAvenger: It never started.

@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

@doddy said:

@Markus_Langbourn said:

Eh, who cares. Emma's so watered down now she's basically dead anyway.

WE do care, obviz.

Then don't buy any comic by Bendis. Once the hacks currently killing Marvel have their hooks out of her, she might become a character again.

Bendis’ Emma WAS actually great before (in HOM and Sentry arc), and her in UXM run is not bad so far. I don’t see how awful she is as a character (pales in comparison with her under Morrison’s or Whedon’s pen of course).

Incorrect. She was passable. And that's all people want from characters now, ACCEPTABLE MEDIOCRITY. HOORAY! Why strive to be better when you can be "not bad"!

I loved Emma in HoM.

It’s too early to say whether or not I love Emma in Bendis' UXM run but I found her character development under his pen quite interesting, and the conversation between Emma and Scott reminds me of Generation X era Emma.

She has no TP now, and even worse, she projects her own thoughts out uncontrollably. Her telepathy is actually the making of her; it turned Emma from a social outcast who’s abused by her domineering father and peers into a girl who’s brave enough to reject her father’s offer of steering the Frost family fortune into the future, trying to make her own way (Emma Frost solo series).

As Emma said in Gen X, her telepathy was ways of life, losing the power made her feel deaf, dumb, blind, and like in a sensory deprivation tank. But now her TP is broken -- she feels broken. And let alone the fact that she almost has lost everything during AvX; she no longer has Scott; with the sinking of Utopia she became nearly penniless… Emma is put into a new situation that she has never been before. She’s strong, snarky, bitchy and arrogant but she’s still a human, and any human should feel vulnerable sometimes.

Be patient, it’s only 2 issues so far.

#31 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't be too keen on undoing all of the character development done for her. And while she certainly is more 'caring' these days, she hasn't exactly lost her snobbish, high-society side either (at least not under Morrison or Whedon's pen, I'm not sure about Bendis).

#32 Edited by Avenger85 (1972 posts) - - Show Bio

@Markus_Langbourn: lol I gotto agree with you there, man.

I found Dark Knight Rises to be far, far better than The Avengers. The movie was decent IMHO, just not as amazing as people claim.

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#33 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, Langbourn's posts were hilarious to read. Someone rile him up again.

#34 Posted by XsPectre28 (734 posts) - - Show Bio

i can see emma back in a villians spot she is more well known now she has influence & pull i can also see her with namor or with magneto or with osborn. all part of the set up to bring back jean, emma has to get her powers back as well, a diamond form boost too

#35 Posted by doddy (251 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma has been on the X-Men side since 1994 (Uncanny X-Men #316). Nearly 20 years. I don’t see how it would make sense if she’s back to villainy.

#36 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1118 posts) - - Show Bio

I cannot see Emma Frost back as a villain. Like @doddy stated, she's been on the side of the X-Men since 1994, that is nearly 20 years! You just don't turn over your leaf like that. I do however miss Morrison's and Whedon's Emma Frost. Bendis is trying to change Emma into a a softer more humane person, at least that's how I see it, and I do not APPROVE! That being said, I would definitely like to see Emma Frost change back into the snobby, self centered person she once was in Morrison's run of New X-Men - I'd also like to see her take an interest in her students now rather than have her life revolve around Scott, so no I wouldn't like to see Emma turn back into the villain she once was I would like to see her grow as an individual and would love to see her witty charm come out in the comics once more.

#37 Posted by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't want Emma to go back to the HFC but I would like Shaw to get his memory back form a new group and put the kiddy club to bed forever.

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